U.S. Colonel: Blackwater "Actually Drew Their Weapons On U.S. Soldiers."
By Logan Murphy Thursday Oct 11, 2007 7:10pm
Newsweek's Oct. 15, 2007 issue:
The colonel was furious. "Can you believe it? They actually drew their weapons on U.S. soldiers." He was describing a 2006 car accident, in which an SUV full of Blackwater operatives had crashed into a U.S. Army Humvee on a street in Baghdad's Green Zone. The colonel, who was involved in a follow-up investigation and spoke on the condition he not be named, said the Blackwater guards disarmed the U.S. Army soldiers and made them lie on the ground at gunpoint until they could disentangle the SUV. His account was confirmed by the head of another private security company. Asked to address this and other allegations in this story, Blackwater spokesperson Anne Tyrrell said, "This type of gossip has led to many soap operas in the press." Read more...
As if being trapped in the middle of a bloody civil war by their civilian leadership hasn't been humiliating enough for our troops, we find out they also have to protect themselves from high-paid thugs from Blackwater -- in the Green Zone, no less. I wonder if Crayzie Shayzie will still hold the same unbridled passion for these guys after learning of this hackery? Oh, and Mr. Romney you STILL have Blackwater's Vice Chairman on your campaign payroll -- how's that working out for you?
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SHOCKING!!! Frsiticuffs?
if that was me...I'd of shot them........you just don't know who your dealing with over there.
Oh hell no!
They draw on Uniformed US troops in a combat zone they deserve to be shot.
If I was a soldier there, I wouldn't give up my weapon to anybody. Maybe the soldiers let down their guard as they thought the Blackwater assholes were friendlies.
If this is true, then Blackwater is either really stupid or very connected as the last thing you'd want to do there as a contractor is piss off the US military.
Yeah that would be a stupid ass move guy. Blackwater is made up of former military, mostly Rangers, Special Forces, and so on, so you, as a regular joe shmoe in the army, pointing a weapon at them, that would be a nasty mistake. But Its still bull that Blackwater did that, anyone hear about Blackwater using CS gas on Iraqi civilians and U.S. Soldiers?
Yeah! We support the troops, now soldier, put your face on the ground.
Seymour Hersh:
at McGill a year back.
Well now it seems that there is an American "army" that is causing even more destruction.
And now... the other shoe on all this merc shit and what it usually leads too is dropping... Actually dropped in 06, but we're just getting the skinny on it now thanks to the other merc scandals they can't paper over... And one has ask oneself just how much of any of this shit we'd ever know if the other scandals hadn't broken thru the propaganda and be exposed. And really this situation generates the most relevant question one should have in any merc for hire situation.. just who's allegiance are these motherfuckers suppose to be given too???? Yea.. Seems like just the almighty dollar?... And how long before the first actual firefight erupts between these asses and ligitimate U.S. armed forces that generates U.S. service member deaths... OR just
maybe that shit has already happened too, and we just don't know about it yet... I just don't know how bad all this has to get before someone with some real authority to effect change, and a real brain will finally say, "Hey, really, enough is enough, stop it"! And then we get our people out of that place...JD
U.S. officials prefer Blackwater and other private security bodyguards because they regard them as more highly trained than military guards, who are often reservists from MP units.
Ironically, many- if not most- of these Blackwater goons got their initial trainin' in the US Armed Forces.
This simply confirms what the Iraqis have known, which is that Blackwater is an out of control renegade militia group who are free to shoot and kill whomever they wish, secure in the knowledge that they will not be punished for their misdeeds. It will be interesting to see if the corporate media is more willing to take the word of a U.S. colonel than that of the previous incident where numerous Iraqis were killed by members of Blackwater, which was witnessed by Iraqis. Yet the United States says that an investigation must be undertaken, apparently because the words of Iraqi witnesses are not to be believed. One should not be too surprised if a Western face has more credibility among the U.S. military than those of ordinary Iraqi civilians.
How about the mercenaries who helped break a corrupt Iraqi politician out of a Green Zone jail with his $2.5 Billion in stolen loot.
Which U.S. Contractor Broke Crooked Iraqi Out of Prison?
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004385.php
Nothing at all will happen as a result of this story.
Absolutely.
Nothing.
Why many people just shrug of stuff like this astounds me.
Cythraul @ 11:
Many Americans think that just because the news covers it someone is doing something about it.
"The Preznit will fix it"
Still doubt Blackwater is nothing more than a group or treasonous traitors, 20%ers?
"This type of gossip has led to many soap operas in the press."
Not really a denial, then.
Andy K @ 8:
all of um...Special Forces.........oh too Smack Dab....the first thing you learn in the military is..NEVER give up your weapon.....hi Andy K......I didn't see you on the HC thread....your experiment is in full swing there.
justabill @ 10:
I imagine they did a whole lot of pointing weapons at US soldiers in that incident.
justabill @ 17:
Basically they are glorified Hit Men
dan @ 14:
excellant point........this should be shoved in their faces...and asked the question..Who do you support now?
DiggyG @ 6:
A big problem over in Iraq with the security companies is there are so many. They don't go around with nametags or identifying badges or make it easy to tell one company's operatives from another. They also don't have to report to anyone other than their employer what they are doing. This gives them all deniability as to who did what (not that they really need it given the cirumstances).
Having armed and organized soldiers in a combat zone who are loyal to only themselves is a really bad thing.
This kind of thing happens all the time. In 2005 I was in Iraq as a civilian contractor (truck driver). On one convoy, the goddamn private security (could have been Blackwater, Triple Canopy, or another - but they were caucasions and not Iraqi - had SUV's etc) shot at our KBR trucks. They were trying to pass our convoy and cut in between our trucks. They pointed a weapon at one of our drivers and he didn't stop so they shot into his cab. Luckily he wasn't hit or killed. We radioed up to tell our US military escorts and they stopped the private security guards. The guards just denied it, even though we saw the muzzle flashes and the the guys were about 25 feet away. The US public doesn't realize that there are really no rules over there and these private guards can literally kill with impunity. The US military is afraid to challenge them because most of the guards are not only ex-military, but some were high ranking or special forces. The ones who are really suffering are the Iraqi civilians. Can you imagine if another country allowed this crap to happen in the USA while they were occupying?
mudshark Says:
dan @ 14:
Still doubt Blackwater is nothing more than a group or treasonous traitors, 20%ers?
excellant point……..this should be shoved in their faces…and asked the question..Who do you support now?
I can see the bumper stickers on sale at your finer GOP websites now: Support our Mercs!
Smack_dab @ 20:
their loyal to Chainey
Speaking from what someone who was a sniper in the Marines for many years told me: Many of the folks who join Blackwater are guys like him who've been trained to be some of the best killers on the planet and there is little other occupational opportunities for guys who aren't too bright but can shoot a dude from a good distance away and smash their face with bare hands. It's really either be a mercenary or deprogram yourself and start over from scratch. At least, that's the reasons I've heard. Myself, I'm a pansy who'd be laughed off Blackwater's property... or just shot.
And the radial-right likes to use these terrorists on US soil... Gonna be a long spring come 2009 when the GOP gets their ass handed to them in the election...
mudshark @ 16:
Yesterday's RP thread? Yeah, I'm there...Hell, I just made 2 more comments on that beast before commentin' here.
As to the experiment- I'm about 90% sure it's the headline- and the headline only that brings 'em out. They don't seem to monitor other threads. At least they don't comment, anyhow.
I'm sure ya know that Prince was a SEAL. He's gotta be recruitin' Special Forces guys while they're still active. Not himself, of course, but ya gotta think his ops have many contacts inside. If any legislation comes outta this I think it should be related to recruitment by mercenaries from the US Armed Forces.
Lets see, so far, Blackwater:
- Got drunk and murdered the bodyguard of the Iraqi VP.
- Held US Soldiers at gunpoint for a minor traffic accident.
- Murdered unarmed Iraqi civilians, joking the entire time like it was a video game.
Consequences:
They are still in Iraq. They are still being paid almost comically massive sums by the US government. None are in jail. None will ever be in jail.
And we wonder why we are hated across the world.
dan @ 22:
They are already going that far in Congress.
Rep Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA): Blackwater CEO Is 'An American Hero Just Like Ollie North Was'
Hero, or criminal?
Dana Rohrabacher sure can pick'em.
Blackwater and all the rest of the private little armies in Iraq are a symptom. The core disease is Cheney/Bush and the neo-criminals who have hijacked out country. They chose to invade and occupy Iraq and chose to do so without the needed troop levels which made the contractors, the second largest foreign military force in Iraq, into the menace they are.
Wanna have a laugh? Go to Wikipedia and try to ad anything negative to the page about Blackwater and you get banned within 1 minute... and the person doing the banning is coming from an IP owned by, guess who, Backwater.
dan @ 25:
Of course, that assumes there will be elections in Nov, 2008.
Stupid Git @ 24:
Actually, both.
As we have seen (in video no less), they shoot you WHILE laughing at you.
Smack_dab Says:
Blackwater and all the rest of the private little armies in Iraq are a symptom. The core disease is Cheney/Bush and the neo-criminals who have hijacked out country. They chose to invade and occupy Iraq and chose to do so without the needed troop levels which made the contractors, the second largest foreign military force in Iraq, into the menace they are.
My guess is the mercs are using Iraq as a training ground for use on US soil at a later date.
dan @ 30:
If thats true, theres an entirely new story there. You should gather up the proof of this and break the story.
The sad thing to me is that this is being reported in Newsweek magazine and still, people won't give a flying rat's ass. It's not like Newsweek is a godless-liberal-leftwing-child molesting-puppy kicking rag and can be easily dismissed. Yet, this will have no play in the public consciousness. Just crank up the media machine to spit out the latest happenings of Britney and her spawn or Paris and her sperm...
Cythraul @ 34:
Damned straight! Gather evidence and pass it along. I'm sure Amato would love to get a story like this. So would TPM, or Balloon Juice.
You found a great case of what would be called motherfuckery at The Onion AV Club!
Support the troops, put a magnetic yellow ribbon on the tailgate of your Chevy............
mudshark @ 23:
Even if they are loyal to their employer, that can change in an instant. Contractors can quit or not follow orders whenever they feel like it. Such is the nature of mercenaries.
Cythraul @ 27:
It probably wasn't minor as both the US military and the contractors drive at really high speed wherever they go to avoid ambushes. Many head injuries are happening in Iraq from traffic accidents.
nothing like supporting the troops...by recruiting the pro ones....... to leave...
I say let these terrorist stay in Iraq, I sure as hell don't want these traitors walking on US soil.
I wanna meet the guy who thought this up. Let's start a war and outsource it. Quite a salesman.
I want to meet him so I can punch him in the head.
"Gossip?"
I hope the Senate will move to IMMEDIATELY denounce Blackwater for criticizing a colonel on active duty in a time of war.
Disgusting.
While I have no doubts that it has happened, I wonder if it were to become public knowledge, that a Blackwater terrorists killed a US solider who the 20%ers would side with. My money is that they would dig up dirt on the soldier and turn the terrorist into a hero.
dan @ 40:
Or, "Let 'em fight us over there so they're not fightin' us over here."
JasonS @ 42:
Screw that; i hope the Senate moves to immediately classify Blackwater as a terrorist group and plac warrents out for it's members arrests.
JasonS @ 42:
Right on!
Certainly worse than MoveOn's criticism of Petraeus, because who represents the soldiers more than an anonymous soldier?
mudshark @ 39:
It's a horrible thought, but it makes me question those who actually are servin' due to a sense of patriotism rather than mere job trainin' in the "wet" arts.
If we know about all these incidents, how much more has happened that we don't know about? Hopefully the U.N. committee that was set up on Blackwater can help shed some light on this. I personally would enjoy seeing war crimes charges brought against this group, and a little trickle up of charges to the ones who hired these people. I'm sure there's more to learn.
Andy K @ 47:
money Andy K...it's the repug way.....
So, if this is true, wouldn't that make the Blackwater people involved "enemy combatants" and Blackwater, by extension, a "known terrorist group"? Except of course that they are white christian males and that's essentially a get-out-of-terrorist-classification-free card.
And, I'm sorry to say, the lower-case C in christian isn't a typo.
Forget about Congress, they're useless....unless you're into stern letters or stale tea analogies.
At this point , the UN is the only hope in stopping these christian extremists.
mudshark @ 2:
This will show up on every wingnut blog. Bill'o may even pick it up.
"Extreme Left wants to shoot our troops"
Blackwater is the new Pinkertons. It won't be long before they're marching down the street of your hometown to put down any resistance to the corporate elite agenda. Just wait until the economic divide in our nation becomes socially unsustainable.
Imagine this future scenario:
Local protesters gather to protest the high fees charged by the private company that owns the highway that leads from town to their low wage jobs (they are planning to privatize a major highway in Indiana right now). Blackwater thugs are called in to quell the disturbance. Wounded protesters are then turned away at the private hospital. Meanwhile, a resident's house burns to the ground as the privatized fire department stands and watches, refusing to help because he failed to pay his dues (this actually happened). The corporate owned media nightly news broadcasts nothing but the latest Brittney Spears scandal and an exclusive update on the investigation into Princess Diana's tragic death.
Welcome to the Libertarian/Republican/Neo-con dystopia!
Hope this story gets some play. The wingnuts won't know where to stand. Can't blame the troops; can't criticize the noble mercenaries.
Only one option left: Blame the media. (Or in Rush's case, blame the phony colonel.)
Anyway, should be fun to watch them squirm.
sure hope the pentagons seeing that blackwater boys got enough whores to go around!
Bush's war is a disaster any way you cut it.
It sickens me to think of where we would be as a nation right now if the Emmy/Oscar/Nobel Peace Prize winner was president building upon Clinton's legacy of peace and prosperity.
Instead we got the illiterate, incompetent, reich wing supreme court installed chimp running us into the ground.
I think I'm going to puke again...
Greg @ 52:
that's what the troops should of done...tell me?....what you of done if that would of been you?
if this really happened then that colonel is a coward for giving up his weapon and not his name! with cowards like him expect more of the same for the paid to kill thugs.
This is an outrage. The way I see this, is the ultimate humiliation for soldiers who have honor and dignity who signed up to defend their country. Frankly I would expect a US army backlash that sees their own Apaches should be able to turn blackwater's own helicopters like moths to a flame, and US soldiers then wipe out the mercenaries using their legendary firepower.
Bring Bloodwater to justice!
The result of Rummy's "leaner military!"
They're all in the green zone and they collide with security forces and then they give up their weapons?
Does not compute. Whatever the real story is, we're not getting it, as usual.
Blackwater is getting nailed for a reason and it's not what we're being led to believe.
Oh yeah, and which other private security company was that whose head confirmed this report? Inquiring minds smell a rat.
organmeat @ 58:
Slow down....From the o.p.:
The colonel, who was involved in a follow-up investigation...
[emphasis mine]
Snowball @ 53:
the movie is called running man
We are on the verge of the 5th Generation in global warfare. Private armies like Blackwater will do battle against the US Army, China, Russia or Euro States across the planet in the very near future.
The dawn of state v. corporate warfare.
mudshark @ 57:
Deleted. Off topic, Grammar Dave. "Grammarian usually has little to contribute to a discussion and possesses few effective weapons. To compensate, he will point out minor errors in spelling and grammar..." http://redwing.hutman.net/%7Emreed/warriorshtm/grammarian.htm
Don't be rude-Sitemonitor]
I've said it before, but these guys are our paramilitary squads. They may as well be called Cheney's Tigers. And, true to form, we saw this in the Balkans as well, Serbian regulars getting tangled in fights with goons for hire. A nasty business, made into American policy by the ignorant ghoul heading up the OVP and his bungling sidekick, the former SecDef. We will long be paying for their villainy.
If you are a US soldier in a war zone and someone aims a weapon at you and demands your own, wouldn't you have the right , in fact duty, to kill them?
DaveInRhodeIsland @ 67:
thanks for the correction....and thanks for being so civil.......asshole.
no one will do a thing
So the colonel wasn't there and I'm pretty sure whomever the head of the other private security force who confirmed the scenario wasn't there either and once again I'm having a real problem believing any of this.
For whatever reasons, Blackwater has fallen out of favor. Maybe they just want to get the hell out their contract and out of Iraq.
One thing's for sure. When the agreement was signed, they were immune from prosecution from either side. So the smart thing for them to do is bail and make it look like they're being driven out.
I'll leave the rest of the story to you to figure out.
tell me DaveinRhodeIsland..what would you HAVE done?
DaveInRhodeIsland @ 67:
Wow, "Dave". Maybe you should of switched to decaf there at your local Rhode Island Starbucks.
DaveInRhodeIsland @ 67:
OK now that your done attacking me...why don't you grace us with your opinion.....
Cythraul @ 34:
Which page? Be interesting to see what WikiScanner shows...
Johnny2Bad @ 74:
cut him some slack...he missed his daily midol...HEY Dave......you'll feel better in a few days....but do keep up on the Midol....OK
And we're shocked by this...why?
Cheney's army.
Johnny2Bad @ 74:
Should HAVE..Johnny.....should have...LOL
mudshark @ 75:
I would have put it, "Why dontchya act graciously and share yer opinion." But, hey, that's me....
;)
Stupid Git @ 24:
When I think about what might happen during another emergency and I realize that the National Guard is busy in Iraq, leaving a vacuum that can only be filled by the likes of Blackwater, I really am concerned.
I'll be right back.......15 minutes..as in MINUTES.
From DIPNOTE regarding Blackwater: State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack writes:
One final thought. Let's not loose sight of a bedrock American idea that one is innocent until proven guilty. It applies in court and we might extend the idea when we talk about the September 16th investigation. I don't want anybody to escape punishment if they violated the rules or broke the law. I also don't want to see lives ruined and reputations tarnished just because we couldn't wait for an investigation to be completed. Both the victims and those being investigated deserve a careful examination of September 16th's event, so you won't hear me passing judgment until all the facts are in. Posted on Thu Oct 04, 2007
He also notes that: Other parts of the government (read the Department of Justice) have responsibility to take over investigations if they believe a criminal act may have been committed.
One hand washes the other...
Andy K @ 80:
my backs out.......the meds.....or.....maybe it's just me.....ehhh!
"Myself, I’m a pansy who’d be laughed off Blackwater’s property… or just shot."
Interesting point!
What happens when Blackwater or Dyncorp shoot US citizens on our own soil?
dan @ 43:
*puts on tinfoil hat*
What if that solders name was Pat Tillman? Did we ever learn which friendlies were firing in his direction? I can remember.
Just sayin...
Stupid Git @ 24:
You are no pansy--you actually have a moral compass. Amorality is epidemic. These guys will kill children for money. Do you hear Cheney or Bush disowning these guys? Crickets.
Jimmi the Grey @ 87:
Should be "can't remember"...
So, I remember a real Vietnam vet telling me stories about how people who couldn't get along with the program over there waking up with landmines in their bed. I believe the term was "fragging."
If I were a Blackwater mercenary, would I be worried about waking up with a fucking landmine in my bed after drawing my pistol on an actual U.S. soldier?
BaScOmBe Says:
Snowball @ 53:
Blackwater is the new Pinkertons.
Welcome to the Libertarian/Republican/Neo-con dystopia!
the movie is called running man
I'll have to check that one out.
What happens when Blackwater or Dyncorp shoot US citizens on our own soil?
Someone dies, I expect. But if we're to believe they can disarm our troops serving in a war zone, what chance do we have?
I just read the synopsis for Running Man, it sounds like a mixture of Death Race 2000 and Rollerball.
I wouldn't be too quick to wish that these guys come back to the states. It might not be so pretty...
They already made their mark in the aftermath of Katrina. The precedent has been set. It can only get worse.
I would "of" stuck around but I had to go to the store......so.....
Katrina was only a test run.
Seriously. If they disarmed combat troops in a war zone, do you imagine you have any chance?
I get the impression Blackwater is really Bush/Cheney/Rummy/Neocon, inc.'s private army that makes sure all the money, oil revenues, and tributes get kicked back to the appropriate designees. Why else do you need a private army in a war?
Wheres my new found friend Dave?.......I guess he was a one hit wonder............typical....I have a feeling he was from the darkside....one of my.....friends
They're bugging out for a reason. They aren't disbanding. They're redeploying. Fasten your seatbelts.
Blackwater is Cheney's army.
Lee @ 21:
Coming Soon, To A Routine Traffic Stop Near You!
Erik Prince would look nice in an orange jumpsuit in Gitmo
The US military is afraid to challenge them because most of the guards are not only ex-military, but some were high ranking or special forces
You expect us to believe that our troops are intimidated by forces from their own side???
The thing about mercenaries is that they take orders from the guys who are paying them. In Blackwaters case, that would be the Warpig Cheney using the taxpayers money. They are doing more than 'guarding' government officials. They are the ones that probably started the 'insurgency' in the first place.
Smack_dab @ 4:
Damn straight. One of us would be going home in a bodybag.
katsiskats @ 105:
I would imagine that most 20 and 21 year old servicemembers, especially Nat'l Guard or Reservists, are awed and intimidated by special operations force personnel.
Dirty Hippie Blogger @ 86:
They (the citizens) die http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8CDNSVG0&show_article=1
Contractors there to repair a bridge... 5 days after Katrina... (Well that's their story and they're sticking with it!)
You know that the majority of US soldiers would happily part-take in general executions of these (any) military contractors, people that have treated them like dirt and made them feel like loosers for the past 6 years.
Its about time USA supported their troops!
At this point.....why would anyone join the armed forces? They killed Pat Tillman for speaking his mind. They killed a couple of the soldiers who wrote that op-ed piece. They threw the gitmo troops under the bus when they were just following orders. And now this.
If you believe this then one could argue that no servicemember fitting that description should be placed in a combat situation since they'd most likely be awed and intimidated by anyone with superior training and experience.
It might surprise you that most National Guard and Reservists are not, in fact, 20 or 21-year-old servicemembers.
I am a bit sceptical about this story if only because we are trained not to give up our weapons, but keep in mind combat troops are not the only US soldiers in country. I'm in the signal corps and we're getting ready to head over there (sooner or later, nobody seems to know when). The soldiers involved may not have been standard infantry, because I have a hard time believing that up against Rangers any of these merc thugs would have gotten out alive, blood would have been shed when they pulled their weapons on such soldiers.
Lay down your weapon or fire it. I can't imagine a soldier surrendering under these circumstances.
I'm an Air Force brat and a Marine wife. Soldiers simply don't react that way.
The lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.
[...] Murphy here [...]
#113 and 114, don't you think their order with regard to rules of engagement would come into play here?
Do you really believe that the soldiers have been given the room to fire on a convoy that might have VIPs, Iraqi, or US State Dept?
#113 and #114, don't you think that their orders regarding their rules of engagement would come into play here?
Do you believe that our soldiers are given the leeway to fire on convoys that might have Iraqi or US State Dept. VIPs?
katsiskats @ 92:
What chance do we have?
You've got to be kidding me! Fuck, I'll whip my dick out to choke a dozen of these Mother Fuckers.
When this country turns to anarchy and believe me it will, there are plenty of us pansies who will pick up a stone to pitch it right between the eyes of any one of these black shirt false ameriKKKans.
Remember, many of these so called cuntface contractors are foreigners... South Africans in particular.
Foreigners can't pick cabbage but they can blow your head off.
Not in my lifetime!
Thing Fish @ 109:
Maybe you'd die. Not me! And fuck Katrina. I wouldn't have died there either.
Toughen the fuck up you pack of sissy Mary's!
My son was stationed in the Green Zone at the time of this incident. He told me about this incident when it happened, I can't say much more about that, but I've heard about this from him and several of the soldiers he served with.
First, normal infantry guys don't often find themselves in the Green Zone, so NO, these were not rangers or infantry. That really doesn't matter a great deal though, because they were in army uniform and in an army vehicle. They were also HIT by the
SUV that the Blackwater wankers were driving.
Second, Blackwater routinely acts as if they don't have to listen to, or take orders from anyone in military uniform, even though many of them are former military and KNOW the military rules of engagement. This attitude has to come from somewhere other than their own head. It is either okayed at Blackwater corporate head level, or by the Pentagon, or both.
In listening to the soldiers that I know, I've heard the term, "Blackwater pukes" enough times to know that that's how the rank and file think of them. They, the soldiers, are disrespected and discounted. I've heard many stories about "contractors" walking into Army division headquarters to get info, and ordering command officers to turn over info to them, and issuing threatening statements. I've not heard that there has been orders for the military to cooperate with Blackwater in the extreme, but it is done, whether because it is routine (sop), or because someone higher on the food chain has ordered it.
Blackwater makes comments to the troops that are beyond the pale as well. I've heard about operatives that have laughed in the faces of soldier, even ranking officers, because they were not "smart enough" to take a job with a private firm where they could be "raking in the dough". They also have made comments to field soldiers about how much better equipment they would have if they would have had "enough brains" to "go private".
Blackwater is arrogant and reckless. They do as they want, any time they want, and they only answer to their corporation. To the average Iraqi, they appear to be soldiers, because they dress as soldiers, not in the regulation military attire, but in close replicas. This is a problem. It is not being exaggerated by the military. If anything, it is not being talked about by the military enough. Only family and fellow soldiers have been hearing these stories. Now that they are getting out, the rest of the country needs to know that getting them out has not been an easy task, but the soldiers are relieved when these things see the light of day.
[...] U.S. Colonel: Blackwater “Actually Drew Their Weapons On U.S. Soldiers.” [...]
Snowball @ 93:
This Rollerball I assume.
I have heard about blackwater being arrogant and bullying - I have also heard the opposite.
Both versions are probably true -
it is also worth noting that in the article it mentions about a blackwater operative saying his finger was his safety and refusing to safe his pistol - modern pistol quite often don't have manual safeties, eg glock and SIGs, so it would have been impossible to safe it - and the Marine officer would have been likely to know that. So if that part of the article is suspect - what else is?
Dead...yesss!!! On my knees...never!!!
Why didn't this Col. require the arrest of these thugs. Why doesn't he insist the military resume its traditional role as transport and guard to State Department officials.
These are OUR privatized soldiers.
They will eventually be found to fall under the UCMJ along with the rest of the military--along, in fact, with the rest of the combatants in Bushco's illegal disaster genocide in Iraq, including the CIA forces, which are exempted under this bill. The entire force contingent is the aggressor force.
Treating these American soldiers en masse as mercenaries ignores the pretty clear fact that ORDINARILY they would take the meager pay raise of a promotion and be happy with that. But the C-in-C's mandate of privatizing the talent means they take the pay incentive and we pay profits on the SAME soldier we trained.
Pimping OUR soldiers back to us does not make them mercenaries.
We should not be allowing our soldiers to work as private military, but in the context of the American invasion, they are just as much combatants as every other American over there in arms, including the Air Force and the CIA. That some or many are committing major warcrimes is not surprising, given the clearcut command responsibility warcrime in allowing them to operate above the law in the first place.
The four Blackwater pawns killed in Fallujah were honorable men, not mercenaries. And they committed no war crimes whatsoever. Calling THEM mercenaries is mocking their families.
mudshark @ 100:
I'm here, Mudshark. Seems though that my comments are being blocked/deleted. I don't know what I've done to deserve that, especially considering the posts of some others here. Anyway, I'm not looking to start flame wars or anything, so if I was being an asshole I accept that. I'm a dick sometimes.
What I would like to say regarding these Blackwater mercs is that if all this is true, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of them mysteriously turning up dead. I don't care who you are or what corporation you're employed by, if you fuck with the men and women in our military, expect to get it back hard. I have great respect for our soldiers and know guys that have been there. They don't want to be in Iraq getting shot at, and they certainly won't put up with mercs assaulting them. Payback's a bitch, and would be most deserved.
I'd have to agree with the post above, inappropriately cathartic, as it was. These blackwater guys have a big, bright bullseye on them; as of now.
[...] U.S. Colonel: Blackwater “actually drew their weapons on U.S. soldiers.” [...]
I call them Brownwater. Evocative of the Brownshirts and worrisome as a theoretical first step into an Authoritarian abyss.
Brownwater is made up of Mercenaries and as such is a potential menace to a free society and like the brownwater in your bowl needs to be flushed. This really should not be a bipartisan issue.
Especially if you consider that if the US Military can't do the job, then the job can't be done militarily. One former navy seal and his crew cannot change that sober reality so there is no logical need for a privately owned and controlled Corporation of "Guns for Hire" headquartered on US soil.
Its amazing just how much this has flown under the radar till now. Hope the pressure keeps up and these private armies are disbanded for good.
mudshark @ 57:
Relax mudshark, I wasn't attacking you. I was pointing out that someone like Bill'o, as usual, would misinterpret and cherry pick a post in a left wing blog and run with it. Damn! Some people are just to sensitive.
If that were my command, none of the Blackwater guys would have survived the incident. More, I would have had every balckwater person in my area of control disarmed, arrested and held under aggresive military gaurd until I could put them on a plane out of the country. There would be no doubt that they would face overwhelming force and certain death if they tried that anywhere in my command.
I have said it before, because it's true: you never create and fund mercenary armies because, sooner or later, either the military/police or the citizens - banding together in self-defense - must end up fighting them.
Lee @ 21:
Great. So now there are going to be TWO civil wars in Iraq - Iraqi vs. Iraqi and American vs. American.
Does Blackwater fit the profile of an "Enemy Combatant"? No uniforms, armed, and a danger to our armed forces. Why aren't they in Gitmo?? I'm sure many Iragi's consider them terrorists.
If this story is true then we have finally found a good reason for being in Iraq. There are terrorists there the problem is we put them there.
Someone needs to ask the age old question to the Iraqi's "Are you better off now than four years ago?". Is Iraq better off now than under Saddam. Maybe someone can calculate how many Iraqi's would have died under Saddam as compared to how many have died since we decided they needed to be democratized. I really don't think that the comparisons would be close.
xvet
dan @ 33: "...My guess is the mercs are using Iraq as a training ground for use on US soil at a later date."
I think you're right. But then again, I don't imagine that too many Americans would have a whole lot of trouble drawing a bead on these thugs, especially when the thugs' only purpose is to prey upon the citizens.
As a veteran who has done some OPS with NAVY SEALS I am apalled beyond belief at this MR. Prince. A traitor - plain and simple. Most SEALS I encountered seemed very intelligent. However - their post military occupational prospects are ? What do you do when you are a highly skilled killer? This does not excuse them - all of Prince's 'contractors' ARE STILL TRAITORS IN MY BOOK. If this story plays out to be as it's told here ( and quite a scenario to make up!) - we have some SERIOUS problems with OUR ENTIRE GOV'T for allowing this 'privatization' to go on. This is the core issue - to whom and what are contractors loyal to?
If my tax dollars are to go to 'MERCENARIES' (let's call a duck a duck) then I say hell no!
And if the Karmic wheel spins true there is a special place in Hell for Mr. Prince, his goons and the Bush Crime family who enabled them both in IRAQ and here on U.S. SOIL.
I am not afraid - there will come a day when we wake up and ROAR about this and if need
be - shut them down. Thomas Jefferson was right, 'a little revolution now and then is a good thing'
The Congress needs to close the loop hole that Bremer and Co. set in place that exempts all contractors from being prosecuted by Iraqi courts. That was made during the initial stages of reconstruction, when Iraq did not have a working government. Now, with a (supposedly) sovereign government, Iraq
Great Frybread King @ 138:
(Sorry, I hit the "submit comment" button on accident.)
I wanted to say that now, with a sovereign government, Iraqis should be allowed to prosecute American soldiers and contractors for atrocities. That's IF they are a sovereign government. We all have our own suspicions that they are a puppet of the Chimp's regime.
Ex Navy Submariner @ 137:
I have never known any Navy Seals, but I would assume they are very capable individuals. I just think these guys get caught up in the big $'s when working for these companies like Blackwater so much so that they apparently will pull their weapons on U.S. soldiers.
Rooting against the contractors no matter who they're fighting against.
Every day it seems I read something that causes my jaw to hit the floor.
Thanksgiving is coming up soon and I feel we should have a Turkey Shoot with ALL Blackwater operatives as the Turkeys. If our Soldiers do it right, they can make it look like the so called "insurgents" did it.
Gee...I wonder how the colonel's troops will react next time...
How the heck did Army soldiers ALLOW civilians to disarm them!?!? I don't care who they are, a cardinal rule (at least in the Marine Corps) is that you NEVER hand your weapon off to anybody. EVER.
WTF?
Dear Editors,
I could not help but notice that your article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21163806/site/newsweek/) left out important points about what Blackwater really represents -- facts which would seriously alarm the American people. Blackwater and other ' private security firms' are in fact mercenaries, a term avoided in your article (soldiers hired for money and/or from foreign countries, mercantile). You leave out the fact that the Bush administration seriously undermanned the Iraq war on the cheap and, as a direct result, there are more private mercenaries than US military personel in Iraq today. Or the fact that that there has never been a time in American history where the US Miliitary ever relied on mercenaries. Or the united opinion of our founding fathers regarding standing armies and mercenaries- they were against them.
The article left out any mention that Blackwater is an extreme right-wing Christian evangelical group which exclusively funds the same Republicans which gave Blackwater billions of dollars. The article could have mentioned actual critics who would have included the fact that the right-wing, Christian evangelical control of the US military is the probable reason for Blackwater's successful government contracts, and that the Pentagon awarded Blackwater another billion, just this week, directly in the face of public scrutiny. These facts seem contrary to the article concluding that the Pentagon doesn't like Blackwater. You also left out Blackwater hiring away many US soldiers, therefore strategically undermining the success of US military forces in a time of war. As well as Blackwater's staff including many known South American death squad operatives.
I know that you probably couldn't fit in anything about Blackwater's controversial mercenary and private corporate security "training facilities" in Florida and California. So may I suggest you could do a follow-up article of more depth which would cover these interesting parts of Blackwater?
Blackwater --in Newsweek-- clearly sound like some out of control frat boys, instead of a direct threat to democracy and civilian control of the US military, which they are.
If newsmagazines are to survive, they really need more attention to detail and provde more meaning behind the news than blogs. Blogs gave me a lot more information in more depth about the subject than Newsweek provided me. Blogs like Bartcop and Crookslandliars are much more entertaining, too.
Thanks so much for your attention. I look forward to reading more about Blackwater in Newsweek in the future.
Tom The Patriot
"I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society." --Martin Luther King
I again reiterate that the soldiers that were involved were not infantry or any form of special forces, but were instead a member of a support chain like signal corp. we go through training to make sure we know how to shoot straight and we get instructions on hand-to-hand combat, but it is nowhere near the same level as what special forces would routinely get, that's why we have the special forces.
If this incident did take place the mercs might have known they were up against support soldiers and not a group that would readily challenge them with equal force. Many of the people in my current company are fresh out of basic and AIT, they (and I)have yet to go down range and don't know what to expect. Actual combat veterans such as the Rangers would have a different response to such an attack (yes they would view it as an attack), if these thugs are former military they probably know this and are reluctant to take on men that are just as deadly as they are.
katsiskats @ 62:
US military forces are required to unload and clear their weapons of all ammo upon entering the Green Zone. Any crew-served weapons (vehicle mounted weapons) are required to be cleared and oriented in a non-threatening position upon entering the Green Zone.
Blackwater does not follow this policy, and runs around lock & loaded everywhere. I'm guessing after the collision, the soldiers go out, probably left their unloaded weapons in the truck expecting to need both hands free to untangle the trucks, expected a friendly discussion on how to fix this mess, and the Blackwater boys got the drop on them.
This whole fiasco is just so blatantly wrong.
Great Frybread King @ 139:
That was one of the complaints in the Declaration of Independence. When red-coats and other officials broke laws in the Colonies, they didn't stand trial in the Colonies but in Britain.
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