Mukasey compares U.S. torture to Nazi tactics
Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey’s confirmation hearings got underway this morning, and Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Pat Leahy (D-Vt.) explored Mukasey’s position on administration torture policies. His response was surprising.
Not only did Michael Mukasey repudiate the so-called 2002 “torture memo” signed by Office of Legal Counsel chief Jay Bybee — which appears to have survived in spirit, if not in letter — but he compared U.S. torture to the Holocaust. [...]
The Bybee memo is “worse than a sin, it’s a mistake,” Mukasey said. He referenced the photographs taken by U.S. troops who liberated the Nazi concentration camps in 1945 to document the “barbarism” the U.S. opposed. “They didn’t do that so that we could then duplicate it ourselves.” Beyond legal restrictions barring torture clearly, torture is “antithetical to everything this country stands for.”
Greg Sargent had the same reaction I did — weren’t Republicans apoplectic when Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.) said something similar two years ago?
One suspects the ensuing firestorm to Mukasey’s remarks will be a little less intense (which is to say, non-existent).
Great! Now when will they admit to it?
This guy's not to be trusted either... I say No to Mukasey!!
They reeled-in his ass today, after those comments. Today he refused to call waterboarding torture.
The spineless Democraps will huff and puff and preen and pose in righteous indignation at this Bush lackey----and then do what they always do....meekly bow and pout and unanimously vote him in as the new AG. Nothing new here....
I'm sure Bush must be seething.
Uh-Oh. Somebody committed a truth. He must be new.
Marc @ 5:
Trust me, Marc....he's not even breaking a sweat! He knows its his Congress. At best, he's just annoyed they make him wait for it but in the end he knows they do what he says.
My concern: The use of "torture" -- as a word -- is irrelevant. Geneva forbids abuse. Whether something is or isn't "torture" is meaningless. Please encourage your friends to pressure Congress to focus on the real issue: The laws of war prohibit all abuse: Just because "something isn't torture" doesn't mean that it is lawful under Geneva.
What's worse: The POWs at GTMO -- many of them -- were handed over not because they did anything wrong, but because the US was offering substantial bounties. Many innocents were caught up in the net.
Please Help @ 8:
Please Help @ 8:
Yeah, but Geneva’s over there in Switzerland, kinda close to them Frenchies. They can’t tell us what to do! Thank God there’s a cowboy in the White House. Yee Haw!
(damn blockquote screwed up my comment...!)
Might be fun if the Repukes got up in arms about this guy -- a la Harriet Meiers.
He also refused to call waterboarding torture.
Seriously though, these guys can say all this bullshit, but "Talk - Action = 0". Frankly, I can't stand to listen to any of these A-holes speak anymore, no matter how sane they appear at times. I want ACTION dammit! This putz just said this about torture to get confirmed. Once he's in, those words will be a faint memory...
mo_dems @ 12:
And, ALL the Dems in the Senate know this----and they'll still confirm him! I don't know which is worse....BushCo or Pandering-Pelosi and the Pu$$y-whipped Dems!
AquaVelvaMan @ 10:
A few years ago, I might have been upset. But, given the American legal community's lack of understanding of the Geneva Conventions, I must take solace: You read my comment.
Thank you.
that answer on water-boarding was breath-taking
http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004499.php
possibly if bush and cheney were given the delightful experience of waterboarding they claim is not torture, maybe, just maybe we would get the truth from them and not all the lies and deceptions were have gotten from them over the last 6 years. i am sure the experience would not be anymore surprising than when cheney shoots his friends in the face.........by accident?
Mukasey Endorses Expansive Presidential Authority
Nominee Says Bush Entitled to Ignore Federal Surveillance Law
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR200710...
"If it is torture as defined by the Constitution, or defined by constitutional standards, it can't be authorized," Mukasey said."
I wasn't aware that torture was discussed in the Constitution.
How about if it is torture as defined in the various international treaties of which we are signatory and are, according to Article 4, supreme law of the land then it can't authorized?
Because he was parsing. That's why.
He stated right there that if it is not directly contained in the Constitution then it does not matter.
He will not do anything other than what Gonzales did.
Count on that.
Please Help @ 15:
Thank you too for the comment. It's a great point actually. Nowhere has the media mentioned the word "abuse". It's amazing how long a false premise can be carried by the corporate media without anybody noticing. Everyone just jumps on the buzzwords of "torture" as the legal criteria and is too lazy to actually look at the law!
Feh! Bush just picked him so that he could look tall standing next to him a pressers.
I bet Bush carries around those mini bottles of liquor that he can pretend to be a giant when he thinks nobody is looking.
Give him a week or two, he'll be changing the laws for the chimp the same way Gonzales did!
And now it's gone again. Weird.
Mukasey's confirmation is assured - AIPAC says so.
http://groups.google.com/group/us.legal/browse_thread/thread/f80298f5ff4...
Digby was all over this Durbin/Mukasey double standard.
Snowball @ 23:
Yeah, one of mine just "vanished" as well.
On topic and everything.
Times they are a changing...
C&L, what's wrong with your comment system? Posts keep disappearing and reappearing. It's spooky.
[Server problems-Sitemonitor]
Symes @ 26:
Try your refresh button (at the top). Mine came back. They had server problems over the weekend.
So he thinks Bush, Cheney and the Neocons are fascist thugs.
When will MSM also call it like it is.
Mukasey misunderstood. He thought the question was about SNOWBOARDING.
All the posts that called out Mukasey for his evasiveness are gone. I'm getting a little paranoid.
[Don't be. We've been having server problems and that is one of the by-products-Sitemonitor]
Whats up with this site? The past few months I can't post comments or watch clips half the time. I love C&L and hate to see all these problems.
[We've been having server problems. Call it 'growing pains'-Sitemonitor]
He's better than Alberto, but that's not saying much. The answer to the torture question, and the answer to allowing the President additional authority was not good.
Ok. Now me too-- vanishing. Spooky.
OK, get well soon C&L.
He seems extremely evasive and is sitting on the fence (upon further investigation... OK YouTube.) Bush isn't going to pick some bleeding-heart liberal like me. ;) ...[God, wouldn't that be cool though. I'd change the country in minutes. Shred everything Bush signed and legalize marijauna immediately.]
Mukasey....what a sniveling little piece of excrement. How have we lowered ourselves and our country to even consider such a man for any office? I'm not sure what it will take , or even when it will happen.......but changes are coming. The average American somehow has an out of body experience when it comes to our government, they have a disconnect with what is happening and common damn sense. We seem to have lost our inheritance of being a country of people with freedom, wisdom, and justice. It was traded for the bottom line of corporations and individuals who have no nationality, or conscience. Maybe we should subject him to a few days of water boarding and see if he will admit to sex with a chicken at the age of seven. People need to pay attention, get involved, or you will wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened.
amerle
Kaorimoch @ 33:
He's NOT better than Gonzales. He's smarter, that's all.
He's a NEOCON Federalist Society parser. He will give Bush everything he could ever hope for, block special prosecutors, and run out the clock.
It's a major screwing, no doubt about it.
Who are you going to believe;me,or your lying eyes? This guy is saying the same thing as Bush,only in a different way.These lying creeps are using semantics as a weapon of mass destruction.They confirm this guy and we are in Dante`s Hell--not that we aren`t already.
This is sickening. I`m not worried about being tortured,but I am about to perform an Eastern thought maneuver. It`s Buddhist actually.I`m going to disappear from the political scene.Like who cares anyway ? Shame on the USA.
There are about 10-20 in Congress who are men.Chris Dodd,Pat Leahy,Dennis Kucinich,Russ Feingold, just to name a few.I think it may be too late.
DAMN YOU SERVERS!........and Rasputin had a very good one up too.......
[Shhhh! They're very sensitive. They might hear you and stop again ;) Sitemonitor]
Time to update this post. All that good stuff is yesterday’s news. Today, he seems to have un-repudiated (if that’s actually a word) the stuff he previously repudiated. Torture is still bad, but also still undefined and the concept is apparently quite malleable. He won’t even say whether water boarding is torture, even though after both WWII and Vietnam our country prosecuted water boarding as a war crime. Also, now it does appear that when the President is acting pursuant to his Art. II powers, he can ignore or override laws in the interest of “national security”. Basically, I think the Democrats are about to confirm John Yoo as AG-----in which case, what was the point of all the moralistic posturing and finger pointing in the Gonzo hearings? This guy is basically the same as Gonzo.
Mukasey is merely confirming what Bush has repeatedly said:" We don't torture." Mukasey's water boarding comment illustrates that when he said "torture" he meant like Nazi death camps, starving people and such. He didn't mean waterboarding and dogs and sexual humiliation and the like. What's so inconsistent about this?
But the fuckers are still going to do it.
Here's a fabulous aside I've found.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/18/mukasey.hearing/
Attorney General Nominee's Answer on Torture Frustrates Democrats
"
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The refusal of attorney general-nominee Michael Mukasey to directly disavow waterboarding and other harsh interrogation techniques frustrated Senate Democrats Thursday.
Under tough questioning on torture policy on the second day of his confirmation hearings, the retired federal judge repeated his view that torture is unconstitutional, but he would not categorically declare any specific techniques to be prohibited.
"I don't think I can discuss techniques," Mukasey told the committee, as skeptical Democrats pressed on.
When asked by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, if waterboarding was constitutional, Mukasey responded "I don't know what's involved in the techniques. If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional."
Whitehouse continued, "'If it's torture.' That's a massive hedge, I mean it either is or it isn't. Do you have an opinion whether waterboarding -- which is the practice of putting someone in a reclining position, strapping them down, putting cloth over their faces and pouring water over the cloth to simulate the feeling of drowning -- is that constitutional?"
"If that amounts to torture, it is not constitutional," Mukasey said.
"I'm very disappointed in that answer," Whitehouse said..."
And while it frustrates the
pussiesDemocrats, GUESS WHAT!?!"...On Wednesday, Leahy predicted Mukasey, a retired federal judge appointed to the bench by President Reagan, would have no trouble winning Senate confirmation "because we know that we need somebody to clean up the Department of Justice."
Isn't that a happy pile of horseshit. Thanks again Democrats, for complying with the arsehole in thief. We know you don't have the balls to stand up against The Dictator. Nice to know for certain you haven't got our backs, like you are supposed to.
Why bother with hearings anyway?
Time Wasters.
Well...they gassed American tax protester Ed Brown and tortured him in a deprivation tank like the Nazis would do. Yet we don't see or hear any uproar about that.
Even with the server problems C&L is one of the best Blogs going!!!
Symes @ 19:
You are CORRECT sir!
AquaVelvaMan @ 20:
Glad the focuse on "abuse not just torture" is resonating. The standard is Geneva, and well defined: Abuse is quite simple to understand. Efforts of WH-VP counsel to say "torture is unclear" is a misdirection. No, abuse is quite easy to comprehend: All of it is illegal. Arguing "over torture, definitions, or accusations about torture" fail to ensure all abuse is prosecuted and investigated by Congress.
web_geek @ 47:
Using the GOP-DoJ argumeng, "because the GOP, lawyers are not mentioned in the Constitution" they are not legal? OK. Then they are unlawful and should be detained. Fine with that.
Anyone with common sense watching the second day of hearings understands: Mukasey is another Bush stooge.
If Leahy and the other Dems on the Judiciary Committee recommend Mukasey then they're just Bush's spineless bitches.
Put together PBS' documentary "Cheney's Law" and Mukasey's mealy-mouthed non-answers. It'll tell you all that you need to know about the true existential threat to the democratic republic.
amerle @ 37:
And the average American sees other countries as just markets to exploit, products or services to import or export. The average "American" does not see the world as people, just like us, trying feed our kids, put a roof over our head, get some new clothes once in a while and get an education in order to leave the sh|thole.
Great Xtian values.
We are fekked.
Get real People!
This is the same weasel like answers we heard from Alito and Roberts during their confirmation hearings and look where that got us!
Bush and Cheney have turned torture into the "Great American Past-time" in the eyes of the rest of the world. America used to universally respected for its high moral principles, now its buried in the muck and mire of the neocon mud.
Isn't it about time that we drew the line somewhere and said "Enough", no more of this protofacist bullshit and no to enablers of wanna be despots?
Pick up the phone and call your Senators and tell them hell no on Mukasey!
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/AG_nominee_wont_say_if_waterboarding_1018....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/18/AR200710...
Constitution = Afterthought
If it's republican, it can't be trusted.
Rasputin @ 52:
I don't know if you saw my post above, but in light of your Leahy quote, let me repeat mine:
“…On Wednesday, Leahy predicted Mukasey, a retired federal judge appointed to the bench by President Reagan, would have no trouble winning Senate confirmation “because we know that we need somebody to clean up the Department of Justice.”
Actually, I believe it's "“because we know that we are the biggest bunch of pussies that ever tip-toed into Congress with a majority"
total bullcrap
I saw a bumpersticker in the carpool line today, it said 'Voldemort Votes Republican' -- have a nice day.
miss_kitty @ 55:
that about fits.
Obviously if he is not conversant with the procedures and actions over which he will be chief administrator, then he is not fit to hold the post and should not be confirmed.
Meaning that if he is not familiar with the procedure of water boarding, one of the acts he WILL be required to investigate and advise upon immediately after assuming office, then he is unqualified. Period.
Next applicant please.
Lollimom @ 54:
yeah, especially, if it's a bush appointee. I can't think of one person he's appointed to any high level government position that has done their job instead of finding ways bush can evade the law or push his crazy ideas.
repubs are allowed to say anything. the helicopter parents in the media are always there to memory hole while attacking Democrats
DrBadger @ 60:
Let's make one thing clear.... this stuff will not end after the Bush administration leaves. Hillary will continue the same agenda. She will not pull out of Iraq. The torture will not end. Both Clintons have recently made public statements in favor of torture. There will be no change.
"Maybe we should subject him to a few days of water boarding and see if he will admit to sex with a chicken at the age of seven."
Ithink he was 8 at the time.
I'm not enthusiatic about Mukasey. Why? He is the middle between right and wrong. He'll throw us a bone here and there in the end. But, he still doesn't recognize that absolute executive power is wrong in all circumstances, which is counter to our Constitution no matter what party or ideology you may fall into. He's better than the worst we could have gotten. but not a triumph for the rule of law over politics/ideology. And, as a lawyer, I can recognize the difference.
Chris from Ohio @ 62:
Let's make one thing clear.... this stuff will not end after the Bush administration leaves. Hillary will continue the same agenda. She will not pull out of Iraq. The torture will not end. Both Clintons have recently made public statements in favor of torture. There will be no change.
I can't say much against this, except that I hope you're wrong.
SpankyTheMonkey @ 14:
oh lawd yes of course, it's the democrats' fault.
mo_dems @ 66:
It will be if they confirm him.
Yeah, yeah, no big deal... once he disconnects the pipe bombs under the chassy of his car for the next few days.
Kaorimoch @ 33:
Wait until they feed him the magic koolaid. He'll be a Bushie in no time..or he'll "resign"
I have a feeling he'll be confirmed. Stirfry votes No. He's already puffing the BushCo rhetorical smokescreen with the waterboarding, and he hasn't even started yet.
the uncontested repetition only possible with the talk radio monopoly is what enables this kind of hypocrisy in media- over and over and over. that is what put Durbin in teh spotlight. rove, bush, and the GOP could not have brought this catastrophe on America if reagan had not killed the Fairness doctrine.
Please Help @ 8:
---------------------
this is true. neighborhoods got rid of that icky nutty addict that hangs around begging.
addicts, homosexuals, someone you don't want paying attn to your daughter, that guy from hi school who gave you a wedgie.
$5,000.00 USD to turn him in. Damn! could they come pick up some of my neighbors for me? i'm already a citizen (a REAL citizen), don't i get the same advantage that true democracy gives the iraqi people? my neighbor is bugging the crap out of me can't i get a lousy $5,000.00 to get him locked up for years without council and tortured?
where about MY rights?
and everyone; we need to do something about the people held by the U.S. gov.
many of them have been languishing in prison for years. imagine spending one week, one week--in just one room, alone, without info, hope fading more everyday. bad enough but to be abused every day. to have your values and physical being attacked constantly.
what the hell do they hope to accomplish with such acts?
i hate them-i hate them all to death.
god i wish there was a god.
Mukasey is indeed a pathetic closet Fascist!...Leahy should adjourn the committee immediately and get this guy out of here!!...Regards to Senator Schumer (NY) for his worthless recommendation! .... We should no better by now.
What he says is irrelevant because the problem is not torture, but the definition of it.
That is how the gov has been dodging the topic all along.
If, for this guy, waterboarding is not torture, then there is no problem with it.
That is why Bush can claim 'we' do not torture because there is very little he would even define as torture.
Here is a dummies guide to torture:
If you, being a sane person, would not do it to your child, it is torture.
Nazi tactics from a Bush !!! No never ............. oh wait, Prescott was one of Hitler's main financiers and supports.
Prescott ? ...... yes GWB's grandfather ........ the person that the US people voted in twice to lead their country and reflect their views.
“worse than a sin, it’s a mistake,” Mukasey said.
Bullshit, suckers.
He wouldn't have been nominated if he believed that.
I call fucking bullshit.
torture is “antithetical to everything this country stands for.”
[b]antithetical[/b] .........
I'm not sure what is stronger at the moment ...... laughter or disbelief.
Personally I define a person/people/country by it's actions not it's lies and leaders.
.
We should be concerned.
Is Mukasey paying the High Principle lip service, similar to Bush but just weeks ago, "America does not torture." Yet we know it has and may still. LIP SERVICE!
It's either that... OR...
Watch for Bush to withdraw Mukasey's nomination or Mukasey decline the position in say... by Monday?
.
Mukasey is yet another one of Bush's Jew gang, jail Bush and his criminal gang.
It's lip service, no doubt. Mucousy can't even figure out if water-boarding is torture. Let's have him, Condi, Cheney and Dumbya lined up for a try at it. (Maybe while stuffing Dumbya's face fulla pretzels). See if they can figure out if it is torture then.
Liars. And Pelosi and Reid and most of the other democrats? FUCK them even more for being stinking low life no-good collaborating shits.
D. Thoits @ 78:
Well..... Zionist, neo-con, fascist gang, anyway.
torture is “antithetical to everything this country stands for.”
What the United States stands for these days, is the exact same as Germany stood for in October of 1939:
The Nazis themselves torched the Rechstag in February the same year. They blamed the fire on commies and jews, and then they invaded two sovreign countries. More countries were soon to be invaded.
Sound familiar?
Why does BushCo always bring up the Nazis when people criticize them? Guess what guys, it's not helping...
"Mukasey compares U.S. torture to Nazi tactics" ...so why does he think water boarding is ok?
And by the way. When do we IMPEACH Bush and his thugs?
SpankyTheMonkey @ 7:
I think Bush is chuckling...This is part of the 'Game Plan'. To say what the Congress wants to hear then after he is in the job....do as they always been doing. Lieing, torturing, etc. I do not trust anyone the Administration is putting up for any job...not just this one.
JUstice is so neutered and useless it doesn't matter.
(_(_) @ 84:
That won't accomplish anything, we need to hand him and his crew over to the Hague for criminal prosecution on charges of war crimes.
Sitemonitors, why didn´t you update the post yet?
Edwin @ 36:
Sweet Lord Gawd!!! Run for prez!!!! Ya got my vote!!!
"“antithetical to everything this country stands for.”"
------
You mean stood for, don't you.
I do not recall not recalling about not recalling.
Mukasey is just another slimy SOB. He condemns the "torture memo," yet does not consider water boarding torture.
IOKIYAAR
liberalista @ 92:
And for some reason, the current crop of dems thinks that very same thing.
I'm concerned that this analysis of Mukasey’s coments by C&L leaves readers with a positive impresson of Mukasy, as if he is going to stand up to Bush. I urge people to consider the analysis by Michael Ratner, President of the Center for Constitutional Rights, on Democracy Now!yesterday. You can find it at this link.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/18/1418244
I hope C & L posts the video of this intereview.
You comment about the lack of consistency in the Right Wing response to Mukasey's words is worth noting, but the more important point is that if the Democrats let this guy in, they have noone but themselves to blame. I'm pleased t see that more specific questions about water boarding were brought up after all. The fact that Mukasey refused to answer just supports Ratner's analysis. Good on Lahey for getting more specific
Yeah, don't get too excited. He was splitting semantic hairs as to whether or not waterboarding is torture. I get the same satisfaction from his repudiation of torture as I get from Bush saying "we don't torture."
Yes, the tag line and promo from yesterday was very reassuring that just maybe the DOJ might get back to ligitimate nonpartisan business....And I was hopeful this Merkasey charactor might actually be a ligit candidate... Not to be evidently... His answers from day one to day two as reported by the media are almost like night and day in tenor...But he says he didn't receive any WH pressure overnight... Whatever, I've heard enough... Fuckem, Not that it really matters with the Leahy crowd, but his nomination should be voted down with a strong message to the wh that any other smoke and mirrors condidates will meet the same fate... meet wh hardball politics, with hardball politics... It's the only thing Bushco understands apparently.
Alas, probably won't happen and the DOJ's reputation and integrity will slip even further... Along with the nations reputation as a country of fair rules and laws.. Ya know that kind of shit flows downstream... When a nation can't count on its' rule of law to be respected by its own leaders, don't be surprised when noone else respects it....Inside or outside the borders...
This is such a can of worms this administration has opened up as regards their DOJ manipulations, we haven't even scraped the tippy-top of this evil soul sucking, culture destroying iceberg.. It's really staritng to look like the entire scope of U.S. government is not much different than your garden variety crime syndicate.. Why is that? How the hell did we get to the 'sick and depressing place'....JD
I came back to this story again today. This is all so staged. This guy will agree to everything Bush wants, or he woudn't even be being considered. It looks good, and the public will remember, he was "against torutre". As soon as he's in, they'll ramp up torture, and screech about some other --irrelevant-- thing.
Edwin @ 98:
Exactly! By the same token they sat they're going to accept 25000 or so refugees from Iraq, when in reality they number in the sixteen hundreds. SIXTEEN HUNDRED! Out of 4.5 million.
Get it through your heads everybody: OIL is the key word. Even Putin is now coming out with that.
My point was that they say something, and THAT'S what people remember. Nobody bothers reporting on what they actually do.
Mukasey isn't sure that waterboarding is torture? I have a suggestion. Get a board, some duct tape, and 100 gallons of water and waterboard Mukasey right there in the Senate hearing room on public TV. Waterboard him until he admits it's torture. These things are so easy if we'd just do them.
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