Romney: "I certainly don't do what a leader of my church or any other tells me to do."
By Logan Murphy Saturday Oct 20, 2007 7:01pm(guest blogged by BillW)
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Here's Mitt Romney telling Bob Schieffer on CBS's Face the Nation that he will put the rule of law above religion, and won't "take orders or even input from a religious leader." :
Scheiffer: How would you describe your relationship to the church and how you would see the responsibilities and duties of the President?
Romney: Well, no President could possibly take orders or even input from a religious leader telling him what to do. I mean I guess you could always listen to ideas, but you certainly wouldn't be guided by someone outside the Constitutional circle of you will. I subscribe to something Abraham Lincoln spoke about when he was a young man. He said you take the oath of office and you subscribe to America's political religion, and that is you take the oath of office and the rule of law as your primary promise to God, and that's the way I feel. My church wouldn't endeavor to tell me what to do on an issue and I wouldn't listen to them on an issue that related to our nation. If I'm President of the United States and put my hand on the bible, I do what the Constitution tells me, what the rule of law tells me, I certainly don't do what a leader of my church or any other tells me to do.
While I must applaud Romney's stance if he means it, but as often as he changes his mind, how could you tell? But I do believe Romney's belief in Lincoln's adaptation of Rousseau's civil religion as part of the social contract ought to be VERY troubling to fundies.
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frsit in the uk?
the shitfest has just started on fox
FRIST!
Damnit, almost...
I meant frist. It's late in the UK. I'm too old for this!
We are in the UK always ahead of you lot! At least 5 hours!
Guy needs a hair cut.
im watching the debate. ROMNEY HAS SUPERMAN HAIRCUT!!!! HAHAHAHA
Guy needs to stay away from tanning salons.
I'm curious to see how the LDS Church responds to this.
Hows the dog?
Damn Romney looks like he wears more makeup than my wife!!! Please, please, please get religion to hell outta politics. Why would anyone want one of those wolves in sheep's clothing as a leader? Gag.
Fuck your country. The USA is in the toilet, oh hang on, rudy the dress man hasn't mentioned 911?
He's spoken 3 times already!
Look's like he's forgotten!
Is that an ear...ring in his right ear?
Where is everybody tonight?
They're eating each other! Fucking great stuff. Get a fight going. McCain, Romney, julieanna, all fighting amongst themselves! Blood. I want to see blood.
Hi Mitt. Just a little friendly advice: if you shut the fuck up you won't look like such a moron. Then you should be able to get your party's nomination easily as the other morons will self implode.
Empty suit douche bag.
Empty suit douche bag x 10 fuckers on the stage. Plus 3 fuckers asking the questions.
This guy believes that the leader of his church is a living prophet with direct communication from God, dont believe him for one second!!!!
He looks like Bush Sr. in the picture. Weird.
Anyway ... Well, of course he isn't taking orders from his church. It's from the Dobsons, Robertsons etc. that he gets his marching orders.
Romney:
And yet his hero Reagan is the one who started fanning the flames of Christianism in government.
Or perhaps he'll be more like the president Repug in office in keeping their religion private? /sarcasm
Why do the reporters asking these questions take Repug answers seriously? You would think at this point Schieffer would start pitching the hard balls. But no, just a friendly smile.
AbbeyHoffmansGhost @ 18:
But what if, suddenly, god starts speaking directly to you? (Call me crazy, but I've heard of THAT.)
didnt we go through this with kennedy?
and what would the mormon church tell romney to do? make coffee, coke and cigarettes illegal?
christ, the man has already changed his views on abortion and gay marriage...hes a war monger
is this supposed to make me feel comfortable with him as the prez?
i think romney is most suited to taking over as commish of the mlb...he did a great job with the winter olympics....but i want him far away from the white house
Russ Mason UK @ 4:
It's tomorrow for me, if anyone wants to know what happened (yesterday). ;)
which bible is he going to put his flipper on?
As somebody who worked with a mess of these people belonging to that church, don't believe a damned word he says. To them, truth is something they define.
They go out of their way to force you to adapt to their ways, or you are at the top of their shit list.
Yeah, right: he doesn't take orders from his church. April Fools is coming late this year.
hanshiro @ 21:
Milt Romney looks better and better the closer you examine his personal bio. Romey is a rock solid family man without a hint of scandal in his background. I didn't realize he actually built a billion dollar financial business. He obviously has the brainpower it takes to be President. The issue of his wearing of Mormon magic underwear is still quite disturbing.
Guy needs to brush his teeth, BTW has any one ever asked Mitt what HE thinks about you know what...
" . . . Romney’s belief in Lincoln’s adaptation of Rousseau’s civil religion as part of the social contract ought to be VERY troubling to fundies."
The fundamentalists know full well that any presidential candidate has to repudiate overt political ties to any church in order to get elected. This blanket statement of Romney's means nothing. Next week he'll be making speeches to religious groups affirming Christian morality in the White House and faith-based policy.
The important thing is that the practice of naming anti-abortion conservative textualist judges to the federal bench and Supreme Court continues. Until he's elected, Romney can be as mealy-mouthed as he likes.
Mitt-Romney-is-a-douche. Hopefully-this-meets-with-approval. Wouldn't-want-comment-to-be-redacted.
tyree @ 27:
mrogi @ 28:
At one point Bush got people to think that he was a moderate with a clean backround.
mrogi @ 28:
Boxers or briefs?
Your country is fucked! Look at how many people are clapping and cheering. Rudy please mention 0911. then I can go to bed - it is nearly 2am Sunday. You fucking cunt, Rudy mention it. Go on!
I don't think any US politician should be sworn in by placing their hands on a religious document. They should be sworn in on a book with the Declaration of Independence, United States Constitution, and the Bill of Rights in it. Thats what they were elected to protect.
He's lying like a dog. No *input*, even, from his church? I don't believe that for 1/2 a second.
He'll say anything.
Roll all of the Repub presidential candidates into one, and you won't have even one.
A bathroom break on fox. I wonder if any of the candidates have been touching larry's foot?
Russ Mason UK @ 37:
Any paper stuck to shoes?
Mitt is full of shit. All those hard core Mormons that wear the magic underwear don't do anything the church doesn't want. There are "Jack Mormons" but Mitt isn't one of them. Every time Mitt starts getting low on money he heads to Utah. This will either piss his church off or he is giving them the "wink wink nudge nudge" as in he is lying but thats what it will take to get elected.
ghoulina the ass licker!
Why the glowing words for "civil religion"? Doesn't that exactly describe what happened with the war on terror?
A bathroom break on fox. I wonder if any of the candidates have been touching larry’s foot?
Any paper stuck to shoes?
All shoes. I fucking hate republicans. Serious question - is there anyone on the stage who isn't:
A paedophile.
A molester.
A Homosexual.
The correct answer is NO.
Look, even if the guy wouldn't take direction from his church on affairs of state (and I'll take him at his word on that), he still believes all the BS that's the foundation of the LDS faith.
That means he believes an angel directed a con man named Smith to disappearing golden plates circa 1830. He believes Jesus visited America.
He believes the con man named Smith was a prophet.
He believes the Book of Mormon's ridiculous story of people from the Middle East coming to America thousands of years ago.
He believes the book's description of horse-drawn chariots in America at a time long before Europeans brought horses to America.
I could go on. There's an awesome book by Jon Krakauer titled Under the Banner of Heaven. Worth reading for an understanding of Romney's faith.
Since Romney has stated that he thinks it's important for a person of faith to be in the White House, it's fair game to question his beliefs. He opened the door to the questions.
One more thing: The underlying but unstated point of my remark at 44 was that someone who holds such wacky beliefs is a bad choice for the highest office in the land.
When somebody drops the word "punctiliousness" into a conversation: they are not to be trusted.
Who's the animatronic dweeb?
Who’s the animatronic dweeb?
All of them (Including the softball interviewers).
Bob @ 41:
"glowing words"
you mean a link? and i have no frickin clue what you mean by saying that "civil religion" (the sacred belief in the rule of law and the constitution) has to do with the war on terror.
I wonder if the LDS Church will excommunicate him for flouting their rules?
Here's Lincoln's Lyceum Address where he espoused about civil religion, or as he called it "the political religion of the nation" to guard against the two greatest threats to our nation as he saw it, mob rule (hangings/lynchings etc) or a tyrant leader, "an Alexander, a Caesar, or a Napoleon" (ie a Bush & Cheney):
It was a great speech. I highly recommend to anyone and everyone to read it.
Romney even looks like a TV preacher and I'm sure would con you and take your money just as quick.
I lived behind the Zion Curtain for eight years, in a town that was 90 percent LDS and 10 percent Gentile. Based on my gut instinct, I would never want America to have a Mormon president. The Church is the State in Utah--it is secretive, controlling, and doesn't suffer criticism lightly. I have a hard time believing that the Church would not play a huge role in a Mormon presidency, largely because having a Mormon president would give the Church both a huge PR victory as well as the immediate appearance of being mainstream.
The natural tendency of some people who dismiss the power of the Church is to compare Romney and his Mormonism to JFK and his Roman Catholicism. I don't think such a comparison is valid. Roman Catholicism had a centuries-old history and widespread acceptance. The history of the LDS church spans all of 200 years or so and is rife with tales of tomfoolery.
Which is not to say that my Mormon friends aren't as kind and caring as any demographic--it's just that the Church as an institution is not to be trusted.
GC @ 9:
lol my thoughts every time I see his face :)
Mittens will, of course, listen to the LDS church president, and do precisely as told. He will allow his (crazy) beliefs to override any sane, rational thought. Remember, these people think that their president -- of the church, that is -- is a divine prophet who speaks with God on a regular basis. They have secret ceremonies, "baptize for the dead" wherein they actually stand in as surrogates for others and get baptized as mormons in the afterlife, they lie, cheat and steal, and they wield enormous wealth which they use to further their agenda.
These are the religious nuts who only allowed black people to participate in their cult in 1977. They look the other way when polygamists are around. They persecute women in general and especially homosexuals of either gender. They excommunicate anyone who dares disagree with them, which carries enormous personal costs to the rest of the family, let alone the individual. They are bad people. Very bad.
But, they are willing to do anything, and I mean anything to get a mormon in the white house, which includes lying, misrepresenting their beliefs, and tying the electorate in proverbial knots to get their way. A vote for Mittens is a vote to turn the clock back a hundred years or more, to take away women's right to vote (yes, they actually believe that women should not have the right to vote), to a permanent state of war, to surrender your personal liberties, and to bring about the end of the United States as we know it. You think W is bad? You haven't seen anything, compared to Mittens.
Yeah, I have a beef with the Mormons and I have no reservation saying so... but everything I've written is the truth.
J² @ 54:
I agree. The thing is, no matter how much Mitt misrepresents himself or his political/religious beliefs as a means of getting elected, there will be no accountability if he succeeds and then behaves contrary to his promises. The media will slap their collective forehead and say, "d'oh!" but will do nothing to hold the guy's feet to the fire, instead choosing to run feature articles on Mormon home life or frogeye salad.
i am tired of the always deceiptful gop and do not trust any of them to keep their word. they have proved for years that whatever they say, they will do just the opposite. they are married to the corporate entities running the country and not in the best interests of the US Citizen. middle and low income families and individuals will always be left behind with the gop and even tromped on to give the corporations what they want.
corporations do not equal human beings and should not have the same or more rights over human beings.
Caught between a rock and a hard spot. Poor Mitty.
castanea.... LOL frogeye salad with green jello and funeral potatoes
Romney is the biggest fucking brown-noser I've ever seen!
Pat Robertson, Donald Wildmon, Tony Perkins, James Dobson (religiousreichwingnut leaders who currently enjoy Bush's ear whenever they wish) et al, will crucify Romney's political campaign for his saying this.
If someone is truly religious. If they truly do believe. Why would the constitution of a 200 year old country be more important than the leader of their church. According to just about any religion none of this is our ultimate reality. We don't understand the nature of god. We don't understand our own true nature - we're eternal beings who will discard this shell and spend eternity elsewhere. This isn't reality according to his faith. If he were true to his faith he would say that of course his higher allegience is to his god and if there ever is a clash between Constitution and faith there's no question faith will win out.
Christopher Hitchens did an interview where he was asked about the fact that 80% of Americans believe in God and he said that he didn't believe it. If it were true than America on Sunday morning would be a ghost town obeying the Sabbath and it's not. It's people drinking bloody marys at brunch, mowing lawns, and shopping.
Instead of discussing whether we can trust if he's being honest when he says that he won't let his belief dominate his pledge to uphold the constitution how about we start questioning these peoples belief period. When are we going to stop giving these people a free pass when it comes to faith?? We don't question a man who claims to believe that one of the wisest men who ever lived said that it was easier for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle and is worth 400 million dollars??
We don't question Dubya who claims to believe? Who claims to believe in a faith who believes that one of the 10 most important commandments for living is to not take human life. A man who saw more human beings executed as the governor of Texas than any other sitting governor in history. Who as commander in chief started a war that has seen somewhere between 3k and 600k human beings die.
When do we start discussing whether these men should be allowed use faith as a campaign tool? It's a freaking baby to kiss and nothing more.
Mitt will change his mind by tuesday and the media will do more "his son looks like Tom Brady" articles
Yeah, but...
He'll go to his lawyers and let them tell him that he has permission to start a war with another country.
This guy is not to be trusted, no matter what he says.
Well... why the hell does he go to that church then?
Campaigning for President is the art of repeating the words "nice doggy" until ya get enough votes to win the White House. That's when the politician will smash the American public on the nose with a rolled up copy of the US Constitution.
Romney will tell his buddies what they all do - that the "non-secular" bullshit is merely for press consumption.
After that, it's a matter of belief.
Something tells me that Gordon B. Hinckley, the President of the LDS Church, isn't going to be too happy with our friend Mitt.
"Romney: Well, no President could possibly take orders or even input from a religious leader telling him what to do."
I love the implication that statement has for Bush, even if I don't believe the floppy "Mitt."
Bill,
GREAT Lincoln quote!!
mrogi @ 28:
Yeah, but he's a dipstick, an empty suit, a panderer, a warmonger. a phony, But he smeels really really good, need I continue?
* Nice spelling and punctuation there Edwin. Slow down and proof check next time, would ya?
Edwin, quit giving Edwin a hard time.
He may not do what the leader of his church tells him to do, provided he is successful in stealing the office of presidency, but this bigot will do what a little jack leg attorney tells him to do, instead of read the laws of the constitution, when it comes down to taking this country to war.
How many wives does Romney have?
First Ladies?
Romney, like his spiritual twin Hillary, will say anything it takes to get elected. Anybody who believes a word either of those two whores says is living in a fantasy land.
Did Mitty check his make-up and hair? We just won't tolerate any slovenliness. Mitty reminds me of a theme song: Flipper, Flipper, faster than lightning . . .
I find this guy very scary, from his staccato delivery of speeches and even conversation, totally devoid of any emotion or sincerity, as if delivered by a well programmed robot, to religion, which should no even be talked about. Then there is this 'Value Voter' thing. Just exactly what does that mean? I hear the 'sanctity of marriage'. Sanctity should not be an issue except in church. Marriage is a two-step project. It is civil and it is religious. Let them do whatever they want religiously, but civilly any two people, not three, not dogs. dolphins or any non-human, should be afforded equal right to marry. Any one of the candidates, whose marriage is threatened by anyone's same-sex marriage should speak up now or forever hold their peace. I hear right to life, that for the unborn. Once they are born they are totally on their own, except when they are old enough to be recruited in High School to be sent half-way around the world to be shot at, wounded, maimed or killed. I hear taxes. They want to live in what used to be a great country, but they don't want to pay for it - why should they? There are future generations who probably love paying off the Chinese - with interest. They talk of Reagan, he of the Iran Contra affair, he who created the largest deficit in history until then, more than doubling the national debt of the prior 200 years, he who brought the religious creeps into government - no, thank you to all this crapola.
BULLSHIT.
And it doesn't really matter if he will listen to his brethren or not. He's one of them, and a rather high mucky-muck in their heierarchy at that, so in a real sense Romney IS the church.
Romney is a fraud.
Did you hear that Giuliani did 210 marriages when he was mayor? They were all men and women. WHAT? No dogs, no dolphins? No Santorum?
Then he went to expand NATO to Australia and Japan. He didn't say if SEATO should become part of NATO, half-a-world away, or if he planned on rearranging the globe.
Then there was Ron Paul, who feels that republicans have adopted the Democrats' way of high deficits and entitlements ... blah blah blah.
Operative phrase...."if he means it".
If he were being interviewed by Tony Perkins, his answer would be different.
I think it's funny how many of you guys don't know crap about the LDS church and aren't afraid to show it.. I won't vote for this guy because of his politics, not because of his religion. Some of you are starting to sound worst then the fundies you make fun of.
“I certainly don’t do what a leader of my church or any other tells me to do.” - sounds like a man of faith to me. I go to church to disobey the 10 commandments - sounds more like a catholic to me, but I'm sure it applies to most religions.
jr @ 63:
Tom Brady fucked Mitt's wife?
"When our leaders speak, the thinking has been done" is a classic quote from an official Mormon church publication. (How many church organizations publish "official literature". This is like JW's getting their marching orders from their Watchtower magazine.)
Part and parcel of Mormonism is to obey your "living prophet." Mormons even swear an oath of obedience to their church (by extension, to their leaders) during their temple ceremony. This is a strong oath. Their godhood depends on it. Two town marshals in Colorado City recently lost their jobs (and one will probably be going to jail) because they kept their oath to their Mormon prophet (Warren Jeffs) over and above their oath to the State. But they won't talk about that, and will lie "for the lord" as necessary.
See the post, "A warning from someone inside Mitt Romney's cult" at
romneyforpresident.townhall.com
Also see, "When the red phone rings, will it be Salt Lake calling?" (Or, "Honey, it's the Living Prophet on the phone!")
Like Mormonism, the blog isn't what it seems.
(Funny photos too.)
I'm not worried about his church...I'm concerned about his hair gel company. He HAS to be beholden to them. Dapper Dan, perhaps?
On a regular basis, the Mormon church weighs in on all sorts of political issues. For example they actively campaign for legislation banning gay marriage. For Mitt to say otherwise is disingenuous, if not a lie. If you want to see what America might look like if the Mormon church had it's way, take a look at Utah's laws! If Mitt was being honest, he would admit that his church, like many organized religions, have clear positions on various policies and might very well "endeavor to tell him what to do on an issue". If Mitt isn't being open and honest with regard to this point, then how can we believe him when he states, "I wouldn’t listen to them on an issue that related to our nation" ?
He won't be listening to Church Clergy, but he will be consulting lawyers for their input on bombing Iran...curious.
Reslugs just can't ever resist a huge lie to cover something up. The money hungry, Fake Religious Right Wing-nutO's drive the Reslug hate party.
Every time I would see Romney on the tube or on the net, he always reminded me of someone, but I could never put my finger on it. Then it just now occurred to me as I noticed his hairstyle. He looks Reagan-ish. Talk about the ghost of Reagan! I always thought ReagaN could use a haircut also.
You'll have to excuse me, I am a little slow on the uptake sometimes.
maxcat06 @ 86:
Iraqi oil.
I I recall,
Mitt is having his "John Kerry" momment in this campaign.
Kerry stated in debate with Bush that he could not legislate his religion. And the religious right went nuts on John for it. It was over abortion mind you.........
But all the same this Mitt momment should be juxtaposed with John Kerry in debate saying the same thing.
For some reason I am not so sure Romney means it.
“I certainly don’t do what a leader of my church or any other tells me to do.”
Even if it means disfellowship or excommunication from your church, 2x Mitmo?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excommunication#The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_...
I bet god told him to say that.
Mitt's not willing to let anyone tell him what to do? We all noticed how he was willing to let the lawyers tell him what to do when the question was bombing Iran.
A large percentage of FBI agents have historically been Mormon. The FBI does a fine job. I have no fear of LDS. They are great people and great Americans. Mormons dramatically improve every community in which they live. I think Mitt would make a great President.
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