This pretty much ends Obama's chances of winning the nomination. I don't think it is possible for him to recover from this at all.

John Aravosis is a self centered egotist. Have you read his blog? Talks more about how great he is than the news. Did you see me on CNN last night? Oh I'm so fab. He also doesn't care for trans-gender people either. Strange and sad that a gay would discriminate like that. He only cares about his own rights. Anyway sad to see the wheels come off the Obama wagon. I'm now another gay who will not vote for him. Thought he was smarter than Richards though. The field narrows again.

The motherfucker just lost MY vote.

This fucker will fade away fast than Dick Cheney at a staff meeting......

Make that : This fucker will fade away faster than Dick Cheney at a staff meeting……

"Let’s work with this! If you gays and us atheists team up we can have all of America’s children killed by 2015!"

Won't work. The GOP already has a plan to have all of America's children killed in war by 2013. Damn the left. Always a day late and a dollar short.

Woah. Where did all the comments go?

Vast conspiracy?

The "Obama is an establishment tool" filter got switched back on. Orders from Dean.

Obama has now improved his chances of winning in Missouri.

Ok, I broke down and read about this because I wanted to know what the big deal was. Apparently nothing. I'm not following the outrage. Are you outraged that he is trying to win the black vote in a conservative southern state? That someone connected to his campaign doesn't like gays? Or that he is using the tools of so-called social conservative politicians?

These people believe that snakes used to talk and a man can survive in the stomach of a whale.

Frankly, I can't be bothered to care what people that pathetically unintelligent think.

Was he dancing on her?

JC@19 - Mr. Obama can do whatever he wants if his primary mission in life is to become POTUS. On the other hand, many of us would prefer that he achieve that goal by not pandering to the baser elements of the electorate and certainly not by being "all things to all people".

But, if he goes down that road we would also prefer that he and his supporters STFU about him being anything other than another establishment tool (which he is anyway, regardless).

Wow. The Messiah seems to be takin' some punches here in the land of peace and tolerance. What a shame.

Hey, did you guys know he also favors infanticide?

i am amazed at many of the comments here

hillary has basically said that she will not pull out the troops when she becomes prez, and will not take military action vs iran off the table....yet i never saw quote one from anyone that she had lost their vote

yet aravosis makes claims that are not backed with facts and everyone here now says they wont vote for obama

some libs totally amaze me

Isn't that the same John Aravosis who called howard dean a homophobe? Plus the same one who tried to make the case that it is ok to throw Transgenders under the bus in Enda but not ok for Obama to throw Gays under the bus? Oh Isn't that the same John Aravosis that worked for Ted Stevens legal wise as well? You know bridge to nowhere Ted Stevens.

JC @ 19:

Ok, I broke down and read about this because I wanted to know what the big deal was. Apparently nothing. I'm not following the outrage. Are you outraged that he is trying to win the black vote in a conservative southern state? That someone connected to his campaign doesn't like gays? Or that he is using the tools of so-called social conservative politicians?

Me either; that is, I too am trying to ascertain the "outrage". And to correct one statement...The"someone" is not/was NOT "connected with his campaign; just happened to be one of the artists inviting and preforming at the S. Carolina gospel session and who just
happens to support Obama. BIG to-do about nothing as far as I am concerned

Let's keep falling on the same sword -- do you want to nominate the establishment candidate who will lose handily in a general election? Or do you want to nominate someone with the vision, drive, and ability to really extricate ourselves out of this mess of a country we have? It never ceases to amaze me how readily my fellow progressives fall upon our best and brightest over trivial, one-time foibles. You're going to get Clinton if we keep imploding on ourselves, and she'll lose to some madman like Romney or Guiliani.

rasta @ 34:

obama is just Bush-lite...

NO WAY JOSE....

keytronic @ 18:

Darn, C&L has picked a side I see.

I couldn't seem to find any negative post of Hillary. Like her donors or votes on Iran, Iraq. I think you may be correct. To be honest, there are five other candidates I'd vote for before Hillary and one happens to be Republican. Don't worry, he'd never get the nomination, he's honest. We need a change, no more Clinton's or Bush's

ujm, Hillary never had my vote. Or Edwards, or Obama. If DK runs as the Democratic candidate, I'll happily contribute to his campaign and even go door-to-door for him, but i don't think that's very likely. More than likely I'll vote on the local issues and then vote for Harold Stassen or Ross Perot or one of those guys who always run.

Obama gets a double bonus.
He gets the votes of bigots of all colors AND
he gets the focus to be on "intolerance in the Black community."

Trying to box Obama into a corner because he declined to condemn McClurkin (as tragic and wrong a figure as he is) is a knee jerk overreaction. In my profession as a book designer for a prominent self-publishing company, I get a lot of what I call "I used to be gay until I found Jesus" books. It's an entire genre unto itself. I talk to these authors all the time and find myself feeling more sorry for them than anything else. Far from being hate filled, they are tragic figures who have been brainwashed into denying their own sense of self and desperate to ease their discomfort at having desires that run counter to the way they have been raised and taught to believe. By and large, they aren't the kind of people with the intellect and fortitude to turn away from a lifetime of belief enforced and reinforced by the culture in which they live. It takes a true rebel and someone with an incredible streak of independence to do that. These people are tragic victims of homophobia who have been forced to live lives of self denial, deception and delusion. Just the claim that sexual orientation is a matter of choice should clue one into where a lot of these people on the religious right are coming from. Rather than attacking them, we should let them know that we accept them as people no matter what inner demons they are convinced that they are struggling against. Obama can, and should, make clear that he thinks it is wrong to judge someone by their sexual orientation and even state that it is a matter of biological predetermination and not choice. I agree with that. Where I can't follow along is to say that McClurkin and his ilk are hate filled homophobes, they aren't. They are the tragic victims of a combination of a lack of education and tolerance and lifetimes of religious indoctrination. To break the cycle of homophobia we need to demonstrate tolerance and seek to educate, not lash out blindly against people who are frail of mind and character.

Snowball @ 45: Very well stated....some, unfortunately, refuse to show any sympathy
or tolerance..

But what I did really want to say (and so eloquently before Haloscan ate it!) was that Obama is letting his religion dictate what hew is saying/doing and this, in politics is a recipe for disaster.

Just look at Bush and his fake religion.

Which begs the question...
Is it a character flaw amongst certain personality types which leads them into religion?
And then, leads them into completely missing the point of the teachings of Jeebus?
... instead of using their religion as an excuse for intolerance and violence.

Stick a fork in him...

PurplePatriot @ 50:

Can someone explain to me what "teh" is? Thanks.

It's a deliberate spelling mistake...it's intenet thing. For funny/sarcastic/ironic replies or posts.

Tim @ 44:

I guess this is Obama's "Dean scream" moment.

Looks like she's our candidate now. Time to close our ranks.....

Speak for yourself....I'd vote Green or Independent before Hillary. We're always bitching about the war "bring them home", the rhetoric against Iran. She's closer to the conservatives on these issues than any of the Democratic candidates.

uncle joe mccarthy @ 29:

i am amazed at many of the comments here

hillary has basically said that she will not pull out the troops when she becomes prez, and will not take military action vs iran off the table....yet i never saw quote one from anyone that she had lost their vote
yet aravosis makes claims that are not backed with facts and everyone here now says they wont vote for obama

some libs totally amaze me

You obviously have a short memory and only see/read what you want to. Unfortunately that is a common characteristic in the personality of the Wingnut.

Many here, including myself have said (on more than one occasion) that Hilary will never get our vote because of that very reason. That she has said she will not pull the troops out of Iraq so she can either change her mind or loose our (or at least my) vote.

Please try to keep up. (and I hate to be picky, but, are you older than 12, or is it just that your splelling and grammer is pathetic?)

Snowball@45

Nice way of spinning it, to excuse Obama and McClurkin, that is not the issue. the issue is those who listen to this crap coming from these 'leaders' and believing this garbage. Maybe they genuinly believe this rubbish, it's the result of their words and actions that is devastating.

Hillary Clinton and Gay Marriage: Some gay and lesbian voters don't feel like Hillary Clinton has done enough to support gay and lesbian rights, while others believe she is the best candidate for gay and lesbian issues. Clinton opposes gay marriage but supports civil unions between members of the same sex. During her husband's administration, she supported the Defense of Marriage Act, a law preventing the federal recognition of same-sex marriage.

"Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage always has been, between a man and a woman." - Hillary Clinton, opposing same-sex marriages, quoted in The New York Daily News.

Doggiebobo @ 56:

Alessandra @ 54:

Obama's 'how to lose it' moment came earlier than expected.

He lost all the respect I had for him in one fell swoop.

Now I couldn't care less what he has to say. How could he associate with this bigot, who advised him on this idiotic course?

I give up, Dem's losing the white house faster by the minute, when will Kucinich be joined by others namely the front runners in stating our values, not those they think might win the republican support. It's pathetic to watch and a sure fire way to lose.

Please, pray tell, exactly where did you obtain the information that McClurkin gave him
"advise on this idiotic course"????

reread, who advised him (Obama) in his own campaign/inner circle that this would be a good idea, they should have advised him to stay well clear of anything associated with McClurkin whose views are well known. Maybe I didn't make that clear enough for you?

Snowball @ 52:

I am led to recount an incident that occurred when I was in high school: A school bully sat next to me one day and told me how he wanted to beat up gays, he seemed to be seeking my approval. We were part of the same party circle so he never picked on me. I told him that I didn't care about other peoples sexuality and had nothing against homosexuals. A few years after high school, he came out of the closet and ended up dating another guy out of our local punk rock clique. Ever since then, I have realized that there is something more to homophobia than meets the eye. The key to fighting it is to educate and demonstrate acceptance.

That's all well and good but that school bully probably didn't inflame the same number of people with his homophobia as the joker in question. Do you honestly expect supporters of gay rights to accept someone who gets on their high horse about which sexual orientation is "right" and encourages thousands to do the same? It's one thing to believe that being gay or lesbian is wrong or evil for oneself but it's quite another to preach it from such a visible and influential pulpit.

Wess @ 57:

You obviously have a short memory and only see/read what you want to. Unfortunately that is a common characteristic in the personality of the Wingnut.

Really? Is that necessary? Calling someone a wingnut?

I think this is what Obama means when he says he will engage in a dialogue. I haven't found a text of Obama's comments, does anyone have one?

I think McClurkin is wrong and misguided, but if I were in a conversation with a religious zealot, and they mention anything about tolerance (even as backhanded and wrongheaded as McClurkin,) I would encourage that talk. The original article cited by Pam and Aravosis states that 74% of South Carolinians find homosexuality "unacceptable." In that context its hard to fault someone who says, "I won't try to change homosexuals who are happy with their lifestyle" - even though I think that is a stupid comment. I think Obama found himself in that position.

I'd be curious to hear what he said on Ellen too.

Is he compromising? Perhaps he is, but its a fine line between engaging in dialogue and supporting someone by not taking them to task on every flaw.

I mean, progressives want us to negotiate with Iran, but we won't extend the same courtesy to South Carolinians.

And, I know that anti-homosexuality is more pronounced in the black community, and Obama is in a good position to influence that, but maybe he's picking his spots. Rome wasn't built in a day, you know.

Worst case scenario, he won't overturn "don't ask don't tell." You think Clinton will? You think Edwards will? Out of the three of them, I'd count on Obama to make a principled stand on something unpopular.

And I'd vote for any of them for the general election.

I wonder how this is a Clinton smear campaign, as far as I can see she had nothing to do with the event.

Well the field is reducing from my point of view, the only one who seems consistent apparently has no chance of winning, Kucinich still gets my vote for as long as he is in the race.

Single issue self-identity politics is a certain road to political oblivion and marginalization. Martin Luther King knew this and that was why he was such a threat to the status quo. Take a cue from talk show host Thom Hartmann: Call the Obama campaign and tell them you are willing to support him if he stands up and supports you. That's more likely to get their attention and have your issue addressed than trashing the man. For the record, I plan to vote for Kucinich in the primary, I'm just suggesting a practical course of action.

It's interesting that the reaction of some to Obama's right-leaning campaign
is to excoriate Hillary Clinton.

"The gloves are off and if there's going to be a war, there's going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose?.I'm not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children."
Rev. Donnie Mclurkin

“I feel how God feels about it … I don’t agree with the lifestyle, but I love them. … They have issues and need someone to encourage them like everybody else — just like the murderer, just like the one full of pride, just like the prostitute … hopefully our music impacts them in a way that makes them want to change it.”
Mary Mary

Homosexuality is a “sin,” a “shame,” and “the worst”; the rumor of homosexuality is “character assassination”.
Hezekiah Walker

One hell of a line up. I will leave it at that.

Rufus T. Firefly@65 Says:

That’s all well and good but that school bully probably didn’t inflame the same number of people with his homophobia as the joker in question. Do you honestly expect supporters of gay rights to accept someone who gets on their high horse about which sexual orientation is “right” and encourages thousands to do the same? It’s one thing to believe that being gay or lesbian is wrong or evil for oneself but it’s quite another to preach it from such a visible and influential pulpit.

Apparently you are so inflamed that you cannot read correctly. I did not say you need to accept his message, I said you need to demonstrate that you accept him for who he is regardless if he thinks that his homo erotic desires are the result of demonic possession (and yes, that's what these poor repressed people sincerely believe). For the true believers, the idea that their homosexuality might be biologically based and integral to who they are is an anathema that undermines their entire reality. We need to show them otherwise. You won't do it by bashing them.

Neil @ 76:

I donated $300 to Obama's campaign a few months ago. After I heard about this crap last week, I called them and asked for the money back. My dreams about Obama (who was my first choice) are crushed. Now I will support whoever can defeat him.

Do you agree with Clinton who during her husband years in office was against gay marriage? Isn't taking these rights away just as bad if not worse than Obama? Now she's for it? Wouldn't stand to reason that she's changing her stance to get elected or did she just see the light?

The only sexual minority friendly candidate is Kuchinich and perhaps Gravel.

Hillary may not say it...

I'm still behind Obama for the time being.

And as to my story about the bully, I think the crucial part was that, for him, talking to someone who didn't hate or fear gays was a novelty that helped him accept himself in the long run. That's all I'm saying.

1) Pick Your Candidate
2) 2008 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION WEEKLY POLL

I like Kucinich!

Greg @ 84:

BaScOmBe @ 82:

Greg @ 64:

NEW YORK: Calling Iran a danger to the U.S. and one of Israel's greatest threats, U.S. senator and presidential candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton said "no option can be taken off the table" when dealing with that nation.

"U.S. policy must be clear and unequivocal: We cannot, we should not, we must not permit Iran to build or acquire nuclear weapons," the Democrat told a crowd of Israel supporters. "In dealing with this threat ... no option can be taken off the table."

Gee! Obama and edwards said the same thing!

Were they against gay marriage before they were for it like Hillary? Gee!

to me it does not matter. any obvious dlc/dscc/dccc candidate sux, IMHO.

s.ahmadi @ 86:

Alessandra @ 69:

I wonder how this is a Clinton smear campaign, as far as I can see she had nothing to do with the event.

Well the field is reducing from my point of view, the only one who seems consistent apparently has no chance of winning, Kucinich still gets my vote for as long as he is in the race.

Because this non-scandal is being trumped up by her supporters. Blogs that support her have been trying to keep this non-scandal in the headlines. They forget how the other Clinton turned his back on gay rights...and how Hillary supports the Defense of Marriage Act which practically bans same-sex unions. Yet Obama gets flack for associating with some one who holds a differing view. Utter BS.

You are dead on!

This is really entertaining. Like watching people with a box of tools going: "I want the screwdriver! I prefer the channel locks! But wait, what about the claw hammer?"

At the end of the day, they're just tools. Every single one of them. Including, I'm sorry to say, Dennis Kucinich. If his convictions were sincere he would abandon the tool box and take up residence out in the real world with the rest of us. When push comes to shove, when the Democratic Party whistles, he comes.

He better rein in this "straight pretender" religious wacko, and disavow him, or lose a lot of votes. The biggest issue most folks have with the repukes is their rampant hypocrisy - and obama's keeping this guy around is just that - hypocrisy. barack, you are trying too hard...

eris @ 70:

The main reason this doesn't matter to me is because Obama has spoken his mind on the issue before, and has adequately proven to me that he will not campaign on a homophobic agenda, and will veto homophobic legislation. Don't buy into "divide and conquer" tactics. Obama has been nothing but friendly towards equal application of the law towards homosexuals and everyone else.

obie's voting record is more favorable to gays than hilary's

Greg @ 39:

keytronic @ 18:

Darn, C&L has picked a side I see.

I couldn't seem to find any negative post of Hillary. Like her donors or votes on Iran, Iraq. I think you may be correct. To be honest, there are five other candidates I'd vote for before Hillary and one happens to be Republican. Don't worry, he'd never get the nomination, he's honest. We need a change, no more Clinton's or Bush's

What's really funny here...is when you actually LOOK at her voting record, she's more reliably liberal/progressive, than most of the others...her voting record is IDENTICAL to Obama's.

I lived in Chicago; I know what obama is about, and this doesn't surprise me in the least.

"no negative Hillary" posts, that's crap...I see every other one on posts on this blog is negative; I'm not sure what filter you're using.

Go ahead and waste your vote on anyone else, other than Hillary.

She's the best option there is, and I'm sorry some progressives have bought the lies hook line and sinker along with the non-thinking rabid republicans.

But it's America, and I respect your opinion, or something...heh.

BaScOmB@94 - I assume you're referring to DK and no BO (unfortunate initials those). No question that DK is perhaps the most progressive member of his otherwise lackluster / sorely lacking Party. Indeed, you could toss in Barbara Lee, Lynne Woolsey, et al and maybe come up with a dozen or so enlightened leftists who desperately try to act as something resembling a conscience for their fellow corporate tools. But I will not soon forget DK's pledge to withhold his delegates at the 2004 Democratic Convention unless the Party pledged to call for the withdrawal of troops from Iraq. They didn't and he rolled over and pledged to Kerry, a veritable crescent wrench of an establishment tool.

Well there goes what little support I had for Obama.

Maybe Obama is Osama after all.

The Pavlovian rapture bunnies have been trained by their Escalade driving pastor to never vote for a Democrat. It's a fool's errand to pander to them

Ah the Gaffe. Something all humans do, except Hillary who probably isn't a human to begin with.

"Obama’s campaign now says that McClurkin only wants to cure the unhappy gays."

I'm a pissed off and have bi-sexual tenancies. What can the Obama campaign do for me? Exactly what part are they going to cure, the unhappy part or the other part? Let me guess. Spreading intolerance and bigotry never makes anyone happier, except maybe people like Gerry Falwell (rot in hell fucker) or the Phelps Freaks (where are those abortion bombers when you need them).

See, I'm a bit pissed off. Please help me Barack.

CD @ 108:

Am I the only one who can figure out the difference between Obama and one of his supporters?

Are you the only one who doesn't expect your next president to stand up for equality and and justice for all? Maybe you're the only one that doesn't really care if Obama's campaign ( and Obama by association ) intentionally used a known hate-mongerer. Then when the whole thing was over, instead of acting like the kind of man the rest of us want as president, he acted like the sitting king prick and further insulted the homo-sexual community by implying they were unhappy and needed curing.

If that's the kind of guy you like, then why change the guy we got? He's an A-1 ass hole, and we don't have any false expectations with him and darth.

I see that you, along with the rest of the country has completely forgotten what a real president is supposed to be. Thanks for lowering our expectations to zero you drug addled Texas fuck.

beergoggles: Best post here. Everybody needs to read it.

CD: You don't get it. I'm sure there are many black gospel singers Obama could have chosen, but he goes with Donnie McClurkin. I don't have time for candidates who feel the need to pander for the bigotry dressed up as religion vote. I don't want those people in a party that is suppose to represent equality for all. It amazes me what the Democratic candidates will do to win votes. It would be nice if they would stand up for principle instead. I don't need any of this Republican-lite crap.

Bull shit

Honestly, I get a headache trying to keep track of what everyone says, where, and when. I hope Obama didn't make a boo-boo (cuz I like him), but... Basically there are so many issues, not one single candidate can line up, to please everyone, on all of them. I think you have to go with your gut a bit. I haven't followed where Obama stands on every issue, but I do think he's one of the most genuine candidates.

I can certainly jump right up and condemn the biggest @ssholes (and they're Republicans-- funny that. Tie for worst is between Ghouliani and Mitt smells-sooo-so-good Empty-suit.)

Obama had McClurkin gay-bashing for him whilst simultaneously he himself was dancing (quite impressively, actually) with notable lesbian Ellen DeGeneres on her top-rated talk show... talk about all things to all people. Next, he will have a fundraiser with the Minutemen Border Patrol and leave to do a photo op with the American Immigration Lawyers Association.

it hurts because with my liberal mind set, i was absolutely wanting with everything i had either a female as president or a black. what a ticket to have both, pres and vp, hillary's ego would never have accepted a vp slot, so it would have been clinton, pres and obama vp. not a bad ticket on the surface. now that true colors have surfaced, i will actively campaign against the both of them. politicians to the core. one might say, that's what's needed to get elected, you need to appeal to both sides and not alienate. a centrist point of view. well, what have you won if the seat is yours but you have given up your ideals in the process. your base looks at you incredulously and asks how could you? Hillary, Obama, how could you? my vote goes to kucinich, although i would have opted for either a woman or a black if there were any possibility that they would actually represent my views. not now, not ever.

Actually, Mr. McCurkin has said gays are evil and corrupt. I am a lesbian and was abused at a young age by a neighbor, who was MALE. This hasn't made me straight. This reasoning escapes me. I've heard it both ways. Since I was molested (raped) by a man, that's why I "chose" to be a lesbian. Mr. McClurkin was raped by relatives who were men, so he "chose" to be a gay man. Of course both of us were wrong and if I only believed the way Mr. McClurkin did, I would be so much happier.

What's troubling is this choice is so blatantly pandering to bigotry. Yes other candidates have done so as well, how does this make what Senator Obama did better? It sticks out like a sore thumb because he hasn't done this in the past and he's promised not to do it. I was already disappointed in the other candidates, now I've got a full house

From CNN

"I don't believe that it is the intention of God," McClurkin said Monday in a telephone interview. "Sexuality, everything is a matter of choice."

From this interview (I checked for context, these quotes are NOT out of context):
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week836/interview.html

"There was a big 20-year gap of sexual ambiguity where after the rape my desires were toward men, and I had to fight those things because I knew that it wasn't what we were taught in church was right. And the older I got, the more that became a problem, because those were the first two sexual relationships that I had. Eight years old and 13 years old. So that's what I was molded into. And I fought that. When I tell you from eight to 28, that was my fight -- in the church. And you were in an environment where there were hidden, you know, vultures I call them, that are hidden behind frocks and behind collars and behind -- you know, reverends and the deacons, and it becomes a preying ground, a place where the prey is hunted, and that was what it was like."

I'm sick about what happened to this young man. I'm saddened that rather than wanting to change this hellish environment and change the atmosphere, Mr. McClurkin's efforts perpetuate it.

God started making it plain to me the things to hate. You don't hate the people, but there are certain things that are against God that may be in you that you have got to learn how to hate, even though it's in you. ... There are certain things like, you know, anybody who has a lying problem; they get to the point where they hate being so, having such a lack of character that they make a change."

Looks to me like C&L has a whole lot of trolling Crooks & Liars on here (gee I wander if Clinton's campaign is posting here)???
This is just a big fat hairy NON-Issue. Look @ the crap they try to throw @ Obama...
Look @ the current lack of MSM coverage on Obama & the complete saturation on Clinton.
This McClure guy has NEVER even come out w/ an anti gay position. He only expressed his belief that being gay is a choice & one that he believes can be changed. Are we going to crucify anyone who doesn't believe EXACTLY what we believe??? Go away trolls. Obama IS the real deal & that's why he's under attack.

Rusty Shackleford @ 122:

There are probably more homophobes than there are homosexuals. I think Obama's just playing the numbers.

And, for some reason in Obama's case, they keep coming up snake eyes.

off topic a bit

someone please help this old fuddy duddy.
What is "teh" . Is this referring to something in particular because
I DON'T GET IT. Who says "teh" instead of "the"?

Also what is the deal with people typing "jeebus" instead of jesus?
If you are are afraid of typing jesus come up with something else. Unless of course you believe in jesus but think there is a significant lack of intelligence in a "supreme being" that he won't realize you are taking his name in vane even though it is misspelled?

Obama's made several fuck ups with the gay commmunity in this campaign, which is really surprising considering how much he courted the Chicago gay community's vote when he was running for Senate. He had quite a showing at the gay pride parade the year he ran for office here in Illinois...something like over a hundred supporters marched in his favor.

Sad to see him pandering to the lowest elements of bigotry and homophobia to garner the African American vote. Considering 70% of African American children are born out of wedlock, I really think homosexuals should be the least worry of the African American community anyway!

AHiddenSaint Says: Isn’t that the same John Aravosis who called howard dean a homophobe? Plus the same one who tried to make the case that it is ok to throw Transgenders under the bus in Enda but not ok for Obama to throw Gays under the bus? Oh Isn’t that the same John Aravosis that worked for Ted Stevens legal wise as well? You know bridge to nowhere Ted Stevens.
=================================================================

Why yes it is. He is a self serving Hypocrite . Who in my opinion is clinton stooge !

My bad on the voting record of obie. DK is the one with the best record. I stand corrected.

uncle joe mccarthy @ 29:

hillary has basically said that she will not pull out the troops when she becomes prez, and will not take military action vs iran off the table....yet i never saw quote one from anyone that she had lost their vote

yet aravosis makes claims that are not backed with facts and everyone here now says they wont vote for obama

I suppose many/most of such sorts may have given up their hopes for Hillary a long time ago.

As for seeing how this issue has developed in these comments, I think it reflects how terrible the game of campaigning is: It's not a matter of what you have to offer -- it's about not getting caught saying something stupid/offensive, and this serves in the best interest of large monolithic groups. Sort of the thing is that progressives/liberals have a rather diverse set of viewpoints compared to their conservative counterparts (if you've read "The Authoritarians", you can see studies showing how uniform elected Republicans or conservatives are, compared to Democrats or liberals). Liberals/progressives aren't all trying to accomplish the same things, so we lay a massively-littered minefield for candidates. However, the Republicans have relatively similar beliefs and expectations, so it's much easier for them to play the game -- they can be inarticulate, unknowedgable, manipulative, and abusive, as long as they offer the right soundbites and avoid a modestly-sized and well-established set of pitfalls. There's about a 30% base that's pretty indestructable, and Republicans only need to convince about another 30% of the remaining masses to vote for them (or rally their base to show out in enough numbers to drive that 30% additional down to 20% or less).

We can (collectively) continue to not vote for candidates who do non-PC things, but it seems best to vote for someone with the courage to actually make difficult decisions and make good commitments we can trust them to pursue (while being aware the official, if elected, won't always have his/her way). Who in this race has made some clear, credible, difficult, progressive promises that would be good for our country (rather than just pander)?

If we elect greedy Republicans (which is pretty much all of them), we die by bleeding to death in a couple minutes. If we elect the zombie Democrats, we die by a thousand paper cuts. Either way, we still lose.

(In the interest of full disclosure, I won't be voting Republican or Hillary, but it's improbable Obama or Edwards could get my vote in the primary, either).