Liberals are more patriotic since we care about America and it's people versus the repugs who just want things their way and only care about money and not people.
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that's why the Democrats aren't stopping the war, haven't impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that's why the Democrats aren't stopping the war, haven't impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
The american way of life - as seen around the world - is destroying the planet and enslaving people to pointless lives working jobs they hate to make money so they can disposably consume.
Sat, 11/24/2007 - 20:08 — Robert Powell (not verified)
So-called conservatives equate hating Bush with hating America. I do hate Bush and his vision of America that wages offensive invasions and occupations of foreign countries and violates the Constitution. After all, Bush got hatred the old-fashioned way. He earned it.
The american way of life - as seen around the world - is destroying the planet and enslaving people to pointless lives working jobs they hate to make money so they can disposably consume.
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an "elite" few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
They aren't done yet, it's going to get a lot worse yet, as long as the people don't unite and do something about it the administration and the power behind the scenes have won.
Who's caused more terror in the world then the modern concervative party? so your either a Terrorist or you with the Terrorists? what the fuck is that?
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an "elite" few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
Wha Wha partisanship. Get over the "partisanship is the problem" mentality. Even though you claim to be above the fray by saying a pox on both their houses, you still dodge the fundamental issues debate just like when a Republican or Lieberman complains about partisanship. Some Democrats or Some Republicans may actually reflect some people's stances on issues and partisanship is a legitimate way to advocate for your stances on issues.
On the collectivist point - yes, its collectivist and you should be very grateful for it. In a truly non-collectivist system none of your capital would go to assist in any community defense, welfare, or enforcement. Both parties are collectivist, the Republicans turn the money hose onto crony capitalist corporate buddies, Halliburton Bechtel Blackwater KBR. The Democrats turn the money hose onto the poor, the sick, the weak, the old, or those that simply cannot compete in a free market system. The Democratic Parties's notion of collectivism is on its face superior to the model proposed by Republicans. Under a Republican system the connected win, and the weak lose. Under a Democratic system the weak don't lose as bad and the connected don't win as much. You will not be able to abolish this system unless you abolish the federal government. Which isn't going to happen. Sorry.
I can't understand why they call them conservatives either. Conservatives are supposed to be for fiscal responsibility and not having the government interfere in our private lives. Uh huh. The Bush administration is not "regressive" - it's out and out fascist.
Sat, 11/24/2007 - 20:31 — Post American (not verified)
Uh the defintion of "terror" is the use of fear or violence for politcal gain. That would make most of the US Government, Terrorists. The defintion of Genocide is the systematic destruction of a nation, ethnic group, or religion, uh like Iraq, Shiites, Sunnis, and Islam. What ever happened to the hunt for the nine eleven "Conspirator" Osama Bin Laden? What about the U.S. Military Grade Anthrax "Terrorist"? I'm beyond disgusted with the Democrats, the Republicans, the Troops, the "news" media. Sick to death of it.
The linked site had a comment that the rural folks throughout America know the republican way of life, and think that's the way to go. Well...
I have friends in an east Texas small town that just had the town dump privatized; each load now costs $50 to dump. Their electricity rates doubled in one month, with a notice three days before receiving a greatly increased bill. Their town cut the police force in half, saying that the officers weren't needed...well, they weren't needed by the town fathers in their gated community on the edge of town; they were needed by the rest of the town, who were suffering from low wages (Wal-Mart, of course, put most local businesses under), unemployment, and an epidemic of meth-cookers moved into town. Folks, this is what much of this country has to look forward to under these scumbags.
It's amazing what gay Drudge gets away with. He's now blazing the rumor that evil Hillary is a sick lesbian. The fact that he can do this while protecting his own closet and remaining a GOP shining star is breathtaking. The guy seems unstoppable when he's intent on smearing someone.
Democracy cannot exist in a two-party system where one party is determined to use whatever corrupt means possible to destroy democracy. That's the Republicans.
I can't understand why they call them conservatives either. Conservatives are supposed to be for fiscal responsibility and not having the government interfere in our private lives. Uh huh. The Bush administration is not "regressive" - it's out and out fascist.
Good point. The current form of neocon "conservatism" is in reality a malignant mutation of the genuine article, which was respectable once. No more.
The linked site had a comment that the rural folks throughout America know the republican way of life, and think that's the way to go. Well...
I have friends in an east Texas small town that just had the town dump privatized; each load now costs $50 to dump. Their electricity rates doubled in one month, with a notice three days before receiving a greatly increased bill. Their town cut the police force in half, saying that the officers weren't needed...well, they weren't needed by the town fathers in their gated community on the edge of town; they were needed by the rest of the town, who were suffering from low wages (Wal-Mart, of course, put most local businesses under), unemployment, and an epidemic of meth-cookers moved into town. Folks, this is what much of this country has to look forward to under these scumbags.
But these "scumbags" were ther 59 million that sent Shrubya back to the White House. Talk about voting against your own best interests...
And that eagle looks like he's kicking ass and taking names.... ;-)
Twice, but different times, on Election Day at the Polling Site, an elementary school, I was yelled at by GOPers. They yelled at the top of their lungs, "I don't anything from god damn fucking communists!" when we only asked them if they wanted a sample ballot. They even yelled at a voter as he passed one of ! That was on school properity.
We used to have our polling sites here in Houston in elementary schools. Now they hold them in churches. I think it's to put the fear of (supposed) God in to those that fear, to solidfy the Republican't stronghold here in Texas (not to mention to destroy separation of church and state.)
What I do HATE is whats happened to America..........but that doesn't mean I don't love this country.It may be fucked up from time to time...but it's still a lot better than some of the other countries.....JerryM...yeah I know...billions would disagree with me...........
I guess this is way education is gone in America. Soldiers who aren't Republican but died for the United States of America are the enemy while all those Republicans who refused to serve the Military are hero's. Nice to know that insight into who is for America and who's against. We see the Law Makers who never joined the Military in the time of need nor will they send their kids now but are calling all the shots. We see Law Makers who are perverts, child molesters and hire prostitutes as that's now the American way. Rudy is a cross dresser and a Mob member and George W. Bush is dumb as a door knob but that's ok too.
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that's why the Democrats aren't stopping the war, haven't impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
Precisely! Thank you!
Music to my ears to know that others also see through this dumbass contrived left-right divide. Thank you, my friends.
Republicans have loyalty too one thing, their greed, their selfishness and their belief they are too good too fight for the ideals they swear liberals do not adhere too, funny how many liberals, democrats served with valor in all our wars, but these things are never considered, it is always them against us with republicans, today they have pretty much degenerated into chicken hawks, talk a good game, but comes too putting their money where their mouths are they have other important things too do such as the young republicans, too busy too enlist in military but die hard supporters of the war, just not willing too fight for it, not unusual since commander in chief "Chicken Hawk Bush Jr" hid in national guard, where everyone knew in my generation it was a guaranteed dodge too avoid vietnam, then take second in command chicken hawk dead eye Dick Cheney, avid hunter who shoots his hunting partners with gusto, but dodged vietnam with 4 college deferrments, and one deferrment due too his wife was pregnant..., then go too their now candidates running for office, Guilliani [aka drag queen mayor of NYC], dodged vietnam, but says he is tough, will "have someone else torture the enemy with gusto", Romney dodged vietnam with mormon church connections....has 5 sons who not one is serving in this war they all believe in with such phony fervor, yes they are heros all are they not. I remember a famous saying that "Patriotism was the last virtue of a scoundrel", and these chicken hawks seem too fit this scoundrel version of patriotism too a tee....
PS...may have misquoted my last quote it may be "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" either way soundrels seem too be hiding behind real heros dying every day in Iraq....and they call themselves Republicans...
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an "elite" few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
No partner you do the folks here a disservice by try to get across an idea that repugs are somehow the same as normal folk. they aren't and somehow you like to think that saying that they are different from the lower class and the middle class that somehow we are the same. We aren't not the same!
Ron Paul is a libertarian hack and Dennis Kucinich is a good man that happens to be short, so he won't be elected.
Please don't try and tell us that your one of the guys!
"One in 10 public high school students in Chicago wears a military uniform to school and takes classes -- including how to shoot a gun properly -- from retired veterans.
That number is expected to rise as junior military reserve programs expand across the country now that a congressional cap of 3,500 units has been lifted from the nearly century-old scheme."
This is direct from Yahoo news. And they complain about using child soldiers in Africa. The fact of the matter is that this country has degenerated into something like the Congo under Mobuto.
I take the conversation to the Constitution and point out how the Republican'ts are destroying it. And if my opponent gets to saying something bad or incorrect about the Constitution then I'll say that the opponent hates America. It usually doesn't get that far because they realize where I'm going and that they're on the wrong side.
Interesting conversation I had about the divided partisanship. Used to be that Republican and Democrats could be seen together in public function and had a chance to rub one idealism over the other. And now if they were to be seen it was detrimental to their career to be seen as a traitor. Republican band together to vote as a solid block on all issues. then a Democrat was seen kissing a president and he got thrown out of the party for it. Neither party could be seen in public together which further divide any co-operation on any bill. The Dictator continue to veto many votes, regardless to any compromise that was thrown in his way.
The bottom line is that we lost any communication between the party to resolve important issue as well as losing any representation by the people. Fear has taking over any sensibility that the body of govt could have had.
That is why I'll vote for the one that doesn't have fear making their decision, the one who was right about this war from the beginning. Strength through peace is inevitable.
No, the simplest comeback is "No, we don't hate America, we just hate what the 'conservative movement' has DONE to it over the last 40 years."
Creating a BULLY-BOY, bellicose foreign policy that exploits and degrades people in foreign countries, betrays America's core values, and encourages people in other countries to hate Americans so much that they're willing to die as long as it means killing a few Americans.
Turning our government over to MULTINATIONAL corporations, who have no loyalty to Americans.
Splitting the country in half, for purely political purposes, to turn liberals against conservatives, Democrats against Republicans, urban dwellers against rural dwellers, northerners against southerners. All so long as it leads to keeping Republicans in power by the narrowist margin.
Encouraging Americans to think that 'liberty' means that "I'm free to do whatever I want, and also free to pass laws preventing my fellow americans from doing things that I don't like." Encouraging and nurturing the 'tyrany of the majority.'
Raising political patronage to record levels, while gutting and neutering all government institutions to the point where they can't do what they were intended to do (test new drugs, test toys for safety, test food for E. coli contamination etc) and then turn around and claim this is an example of how government is useless and evil.
To hate all that is NOT to hate America. It's just to hate what the conservative movement has done to it.
The funny thing is that Eagle wouldn't be in that picture if it wasn't for us liberals looking out for the environment. It wasn't too long ago that eagle was taken off the endagered list due to our efforts, not theirs.
If they had their way this country would be a toxic wasteland the way the conservatives rape this country's land, resources and wildlife for their own greedy interests whether it be for money or to feed their egos.
> the problem is though that debates may be very good, but they don’t really accomplish a damn thing.
Sure it does. It gets them thinking. IMHO if it weren't for debate like that, then there wouldn't be a large majority against the occupation already, for instance.
"Liberals hate America" is a silly tactic to but the "liberal" in a defensive position. It is not based on anything logical and in fact is such a vague concept it is basically meaningless (how does one "hate" a country exactly?). You hurt yourself by even addressing such foolishness as a legitimate statement. I'd prefer to respond with something that illustrates the meaningless absurdity of the statement, like "Conservatives have sex with little boys" or "Republicans make God cry." Then let THEM be defensive.
I hate anything that keeps liberals on the defensive. We are playing their game when we say stuff like, "No, we believe in liberty" as a response. While perfectly true, it keeps us in defensive mode.
When cons say, "Liberals hate america" we should say something like, "cons want us all to be slaves to corporate power."
That's lame, but the point is that we don't want to be in defensive mode. Everyone knows that's inflammatory hyperbole. IMO the best way to defend against it is to come up with our own dumbass meme that attacks them.
Of course, progressives have never been very good at delivering a unified message. Most of us realize that important issues are laced with nuance and complexity and we tend to disagree on the details which is both the strength and weakness of our party.
"Liberals hate America" is a silly tactic to but the "liberal" in a defensive position. It is not based on anything logical and in fact is such a vague concept it is basically meaningless (how does one "hate" a country exactly?). You hurt yourself by even addressing such foolishness as a legitimate statement. I'd prefer to respond with something that illustrates the meaningless absurdity of the statement, like "Conservatives have sex with little boys" or "Republicans make God cry." Then let THEM be defensive.
The Bald eagle which many classify as a bird of prey is actually more of a scavenger than a hunter.
I have often thought the American Golden Eagle should have been the eagle to represent this country, but now I think the scavenger was the right choice.
This would best be addressed to the Great American Culture Warrior O'Reilly. He has all the answers, and he seems to know more 'American Haters' than anyone else and has Coulter, Ingraham, Cunningham. Malkin et al as additional sources.
Wow, the New Nazi Slogan! I didn't know that Patriotism equates to Fascism? Wow - must be Bushit's New Educational system. Wake Up American! Damien is in Office!
The Republican Party is fundamentally a criminal organization of rich people and the closest thing we have in America to a Nazi Party. Republicans, as individuals, tend to talk like common thugs even if they're wearing a $5000 suit or $300 hair cuts.
My observation has been that money turns most people into thugs, if they already weren't thugs to begin with. Most of them suffer from chronic meanness and terminal egomania.
Ron McD @ 16 :
Amont the points your link listed :
REMEMBER WHEN you hitchhiked through Europe as a teenager, and you DIDN’T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?
This is BS.
In Europe you will still be welcomed as a guest no matter where you go. Contrary to the US, no one in Europe pulled the kind of crap like the Americans did post-9/11 and you can be assured, the people in Europe knew what was said about them.
If you come to Europe, you should act like anyone else here and leave your inflated ego at home. You are a guest and will be treated with the highest respect but as a guest it is also customary to respect those who you are visiting.
You should think about who is representing you outside of the US. If your only contact with people from the US were immature jerks, how would you feel towards them?
This might just emphasize the real problem with the US: The people BS themselves way to often instead of learning about the truth they would rather take someone else's worlds for fact.
'They hate us for our freedoms'
Someone sez
I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. I’m an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that’s why the Democrats aren’t stopping the war, haven’t impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Why, the very idea!
While this is true upon the precipice - it is rediculous as a basis for your vote.
Bet you were for Ralph 2000.
Get your balls or your clit away from the voter booth 2008.
Sun, 11/25/2007 - 04:18 — Proud American (not verified)
We have a bigger problem than preserving a Democrat or Republic Party in our government.
That PROBLEM is an AMERICAN PROBLEM; which is preserving the rule of law. Preserving the U.S. Constitution and making sure that each of our representative; whether republican, democrat or liberal delivers it's oath of allegence.
MANY AMERICANS are failing to pay attention to a wreck, here. The collision has already occured. AND AMERICA is recklessly driving-by as they pay attention to the race to the 2008 election.
No one is paying attention to the BUSH DISASTER.
No one is paying attention to the ruins of Katrina of New Orleans.
No one is paying attention to the Walter Reed Hospital.
No one is paying attention to the 9-11 attack.
No one is paying attention to Valerie Plame.
No one is paying attention to Downing Street Memo.
No one is paying attention to the Melting Glaziers.
No one is paying attention to Scooter Libby.
No one is paying attention to Tom Delay
No one is paying attention to FISA
No one is paying attention to Hallliburton.
No one is paying attention to the broken people.
No one is paying attention to relevance of our U.S. Constitution.
No one is paying attention to the 10 million AMERICAN children who have lost SCHIP health care.
No one is paying attention to the millions of family who have lost their homes to foreclosures.
No one is paying attention that our educational system is falling apart
NO one is paying attention that Laws were broken at the federal level.
No one is paying attention to IMPEACHMENT
No ONe is paying attention that AMERICA is seriously changing before their noses
Everyone has become a couch potato after becoming more obsessed with their TV to tell them what is important for the day. Black Friday Sale;
People are standing at mid-night and going to the extreme at camping outside department stores to race for what? STUFF? while millions of people are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan? To enrich the very establishment that is the root of our nations ILL? Instant gratification is NOT going to solve Global WARMING. Its not going to insure your security. Its not going to make your world a better place.
If you want change.....and you are not willing to have your voice heard on the street in Washington D.C........This WAS your opportunity AMERICA to make a statement to the ESTABLISHMENT that YOU (WE) have the collective power as AMERICAN CONSUMER to affect CHANGE NOW....by NOT shopping.
When YOU STOP consuming when the establishment EXPECTS YOU to make the CONSUMPTION.....that is a powerful message.
When YOU STOP buying print media; that is a powerful statement to the news-paper.
When YOU STOP buying items made in china; retailed in Wal-Mart. That is a powerful Statement.
When YOU prove them WRONG....rather than do what is projected by the media-hype; that is a powerful statement by the PEOPLE.
WE THE PEOPLE can affect CHANGE NOW rather than wait for the 2008 election.
IF YOU WANT to make a STATEMENT......RETURN all that YOU BOUGHT and HAVE YOUR CHRISTMAS SHOPPING after the election. By your families gift when WE THE PEOPLE reach our VICTORY. That is a statement. I have already promised my family that I will work on the greatest gift for them by fighting for our U.S. Constitution and the rule of law. When WE THE PEOPLE finally get our ACCOUNTABILITY IN PLACE through IMPEACHMENT and ending the WAR and bringing our Troops home, That would BE CHRISTMAS worthy of celebration.
It's a SEASON for ELECTION: "IF YOU VOTE FOR ME" PROMISES of PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES" I will hand you all the abstract illusions; without any concrete solutions seems to be the message of the TOP-TIER "electable", name-recognized, media favorite candidates who has the MILLIONS of DOLLARS that can be had by the media shits.
The ELECTION has become the biggest distraction to the most IMPORTANT ISSUES WE face today, NOW.
For years your family carried out the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt.
For years your family voted for the best interest of your people.
This was the legacy of John F. Kennedy.
Ron McD @ 16 :
Amont the points your link listed :
REMEMBER WHEN you hitchhiked through Europe as a teenager, and you DIDN’T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?
This is BS.
In Europe you will still be welcomed as a guest no matter where you go. Contrary to the US, no one in Europe pulled the kind of crap like the Americans did post-9/11 and you can be assured, the people in Europe knew what was said about them.
No, actually THIS is BS. I've lived in Europe in the 1970s and the 1990s, and you are doomed as soon as you open your mouth and an American accent comes out. This is a fact, that I've observed time and time again. The other thing I've observed time and time again is the irate and indignant denial by Europeans that this actually happens. The irony is that, while Americans believe many of their own mythology about being better than everybody else, Europeans swallow a lot of their own bull as well, in how much better they are than Americans. And since only Americans are ignorant, xenophobic, and treat individual people rudely because of the actions of their government, or the actions of a few citizens of that country, then the Europeans must be above all that, and it COULDN'T possibly be happening. The same applies to American expatriates who live in Europe and view Europeans through rose-colored glasses. But whenever some European claims that Europeans are not rude ot Americans, I just dare them to fake an American accent for a week. Everytime they go into a restaurant, pub, hotel, or bistro, just pretend to be an American, and affect an American accent. Try that for a week, and see how they're treated.
(Also, when we were in Europe in the 1970s, we fell in with hundreds of back-packing students, and not ONE of them was wearing an American flag on their clothing or back packs. 25% of the Amreicans we fell in with wore no flag or national symbol at all (which is kind of silly to begin with) and 75% were displaying a Canadian flag. That was no coincidence, it was a LEARNED behavior, and it was learned for a reason.)
This is something I wrote in response to some neo-conservatives at a discussion board a little over a year ago that were constantly charging anyone that didn't support the war in Iraq with 'supporting the terrorists'.
Don't spin on the 'terrorist loving' BS. That is some old, lame, crap. I personally don't believe you or any of the righties here supported Clinton when he was president...hell, Rush made it his mission in life to undermine his every move. He could have gone to Iran himself, captured Bin Laden and brought him home in a straight jacket and Limp-Balls would have accused him of doing it to cover the Lewinski BJ, And every one of you would have chimed right in.
You seem to forget that Bush's approval ratings were pretty damn high after 9-11....right through the invasion of Afghanistan, I would be willing to wager that more than a few of the posters here supported him during those days. He pissed away those support numbers (and his credibility)here and around the world when he began beating the drum for war in Iraq, and ultimately flushed it when he ordered the invasion.
If he (and you) were so f*ing interested in getting the terrorists, he would have stayed on course in Afghanistan, or perhaps focused on the country where the perpetrators of 9-11 actually came from....Saudi Arabia. Every argument for why we went to Iraq has been refuted or proven false...every single one....but now that those arguments have been exhausted, it's time to pull the trump card that fascists love the most......questioning the patriotism of anyone who dissents. Well, you can take that BS, fascist trick and shove it.
You want to question MY patriotism?
I question the patriotism of those who feel that our brave soldiers are nothing but cannon fodder to be used and expended in the pursuit of oil and power, and I question the patriotism of those that support leaders who treat the soldiers in this way.
I question the patriotism of those that seek to undermine and rewrite the constitution in order to eliminate all challenges to their authority, and I question the patriotism of those that support such actions.
I question the patriotism of an administration that has used it's position to garner no-bid contracts and other lucrative financial windfalls for their co-conspirators, and I question the patriotism of those that would turn a blind eye to such corruption.
I question the patriotism (and bravery) of those who steadfastly support a war...as long as they or their children don't have to fight in it, and I question the patriotism of those who refuse to take them to task on it while the children of others are dying.
Our country was founded and built by patriots that questioned and challenged the ruling authority. If they had thought like the right wingers here, this country would still be paying homage to the Queen of England today.
Pericles @ 79 :
I am half American and have lived in Germany all my life (30+ years).
I grew up in both worlds as a US military dependent and a German. Having friends and family of both nationalities.
We and other military families travelled a lot in Europe and there was NEVER an issue.
Not to mention our speaking multiple languages gave us the bonus of knowing what people were saying.
Heck while the Iron Curtain was still up we even travelled to Hungary in an old Ford station wagon and the people NEVER treated us differently.
If anything Europeans have a problem with each other then with Americans.
Even today, when I speak English and people hear my accent and I tell them of my origins, they only speak well of the US, even through all that has happened in the last few years.
I had never had to hide my American citizenship and origins.
Though I certainly do not wave it around today.
I have taken more heat from Americans for being half-German then the other way around.
I have no idea who you are basing your view off of, but all I can say to it is:
Should the entire US be based on the actions of their Military representatives in Europe?
(think high-school football team in countries where you can get alcohol with 16-18 yrs)
I think the best thing to do is to ask the winger in question what they think of gay Americans. Or unemployed Americans. Or Muslim Americans. Or pro-choice Americans. Or liberal Americans. Or just Americans who don't like Bush.
Then ask them how they can love America so much when they seem to hate the vast majority of Americans.
Sun, 11/25/2007 - 08:20 — jackpine savage (not verified)
haha...all the comments about bald eagles are too much, as is the picture. We didn't nearly wipe out the bald eagle, we nearly wiped out the bald eagle in the US. Folks in British Columbia laugh at us all the time. But maybe there's some poetic justice in the symbol of our nation being endangered while north of the border you can see a bald eagle picking at road kill on almost any trip between Vancouver and the ferry port to Vancouver Island.
I've been to a lot of places on the globe, pre and post 9/11 and Iraq, and have only once been mistreated by anyone. An old Russian guy followed my brothers and i chanting "Yankee go home" until i turned and, in Russian, asked him "why?" He turned around and left, onlookers smiled. That posing as a Canadian is BS. Represent yourself, your country will be seen by people you meet through you. You will also find that folks all over the world are just as jingoistic and ignorant as Americans, just as you will find good people both here and abroad.
And if you travel well, you'll understand why billions of people hate "us"...they have plenty of reason to, but just one real encounter with a real American can be enough to soften their feelings. Just like one real encounter with another culture can be enough to make an American realize that we don't have the only right way to live.
"REMEMBER WHEN you hitchhiked through Europe as a teenager, and you DIDN'T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?"
Actually I noticed this pattern when I went to Italy in 2003 days after the war in Iraq started, I met some americans who did that and also I actually met a canadian couple who had a canadian flag on their backpacks because (get this) they didn't want to be confused as americans. It really was sad to experience such sentiment regarding our country.
Another vivid memory was seeing balcony after balcony in Pisa, Sienna, Florence with rainbow-colored flag affixed on them with the words "PACE" (PEACE).
Unfortunately this is what today's political discourse has been reduced to thanks to narrow minded and petty right wing fanatics who are not that different than fanatics and extremists around the world. So infantile, so void of reason.
I can't believe Republicans think that Democrats "Hate America" when we aren't the ones in the White House, we aren't the ones declaring war & we aren't the ones who are making enemies faster we can make them.
Call me what you will about whether or not I'm a Liberal...but you better be smiling and if not you better not be within reach of my fist.
I don't take exception to the label of Liberal mind you, but I've always found that, when asked if I am, a response of 'if being a Liberal means that I'm 180 degrees away from a George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, yatta, yatta, yatta,...then you're damn right I'm a Liberal.
None of America's problems will be solved by the election of Democrats. We will still keep out military in Iraq and all over the world. Government spending and deficits will still be continue at record levels. Oil prices will still reach record levels. Illegal aliens will continue to inundate the country. Halliburton, Black Talon and CACI will continue to the earn billions in profits, the health care problem will not be solved, gay marriage will still be outlawed.
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an “elite” few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
- trying the technique of making it all a wash, by implying that what the republicans do is the same as the democrats, which is to imply that there is no obvious choice. I'll take the smaller pile of flaming dog doo at my doorstep, than the republican's giant load of flaming crap. If the dems have an action problem, it's because they are not a rubber stamp coalition.
Ron Paul's voting record speaks for itself and he has succeeded in politics by nearly always following the republican voting record or writing the legislation they want to have. Kucinich has both succeeded and failed in politics by sticking up for the beliefs of the common man, whether or not, it was his party's wishes.
To compare them as similar choices .... well, that says all I need to know about you.
you people really should consider moving beyond the jingoistic language of patriotism and america love
What do you love about america, exactly? I’m not sure I can think of anything …
One of the things I love about America is you haven’t been arrested, hanged, shot, beheaded, etc. for writing that comment…
Correct, but that alone is not justification for what is currently happening to our country, should I remain silent just because, say, a more "patriotic" person tells me to do so?, the freedoms we enjoy today are thanks to those who fought during the 40's and 50's (the greatest generation). Beyond that, most wars were waged because of dark purposes and lies. Soldiers died for petty interests and for those who wanted to gain more power rather than spreading freedom or democracy.
you people really should consider moving beyond the jingoistic language of patriotism and america love
What do you love about america, exactly? I'm not sure I can think of anything ...
One of the things I love about America is you haven't been arrested, hanged, shot, beheaded, etc. for writing that comment...
As you wouldn't in the vast majority of the world and the people hearing it would accept it as your opinion.
Say that to the 50%+ of america who love war killing and Bush etc ....... and they will physically attack you. You yourself need the reality check, america isn't the one and only place in the world where people can think they have an opinion ...... most of the world actually respects others, unlike the fascist states of america.
Uh the defintion of "terror" is the use of fear or violence for politcal gain. That would make most of the US Government, Terrorists. The defintion of Genocide is the systematic destruction of a nation, ethnic group, or religion, uh like Iraq, Shiites, Sunnis, and Islam. What ever happened to the hunt for the nine eleven "Conspirator" Osama Bin Laden? What about the U.S. Military Grade Anthrax "Terrorist"? I'm beyond disgusted with the Democrats, the Republicans, the Troops, the "news" media. Sick to death of it.
So am I sick of it. Everything said by bush & his just as bad administration minions running their mouth and flying across the country (especially Cheney telling bush boy this and that) all the time; has to be taking orders from this so called "Shadow Government" they all work for plus their OWN gain to boot! Bush is only the "puppet" but still an ass in my opinion. This shadow gov. needs bush and the rest of them right now and when they no more do, they are scattered in different directions. Wouldn't some other people believe this also? Take a look at Powell; Rumsfeld; Blair; Gonzales, etc. but still keeping Rice, Cheney, and Bush Jr. himself. They are ALWAYS giving us all the element of surprise aren't they? Take more away from US, give more to THEM!
Especially since this so called Executive Branch came into power. (And don't forget wide open borders ever since as well so all these "illegals" can come over and expect everything FREE to them here in America no thanks to this same one we currently have in the White House.)
While I appreciate Dr. Lakoff's sentiment in these responses, my experience with conservatives suggests that they shrug off any answer, regardless of how eloquent or sincere.
I once had the misfortune to work in the same office as a Mormon bishop who listened to Rush Limbaugh every day and watched Fox News every night. After interacting with this individual for six years, I'm fairly confident that if I were to say something like, "No. We love democracy and we want to return it to America," he would merely roar with laughter.
The problem with trying to speak reasonably with these people is that many of them are simply not reasonable.
Too often, and usually out of ignorance, there are those who confuse patriotism with nationalism. True patriots support their country when it is in the right - and take it to task when or where it goes wrong, supporting the Constitution and the rule of law. Those who embrace nationalism will wave the flag and support their government whether it is right or wrong, usually have no idea what is written in the Constitution and care little for law.
must be that I'm an 'effing terrorist' because I don't like fascism, I don't like corporatism, I don't like the Military Industrial Complex murdering my president and installing a 'coup d'etat' in 1963 with George H.W. Bush's help, and I don't think members of the republican party should be allowed to breathe air, occupy three dimensional space, or 'force' the majority of us who are sane and reasonable, to flush our nation down the toilet so that a very slim oligarchy rule can benefit while the nation is looted and destroyed from within by neocon bastards. I demand fair elections, squeaky clean, ethical government for and by "We The People" not "for and by the oligarch, plutocracy rule as it is under dictator bush.
must be ahm "one of dem dere terr'ists" (bush language), huh?
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DAMN RIGHT!!
Most Republicans are more or less ovine maladroits.
Liberals are more patriotic since we care about America and it's people versus the repugs who just want things their way and only care about money and not people.
which one?.......I mean which America because right now,America is a wide variety of ideals...some not so good....oh and Hi Rocketmom...nice eagle eh?
The sad thing is, there's A LOT of cons that believe precisely that.
They are fools...
I'm not a Republican or a Democrat. I'm an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that's why the Democrats aren't stopping the war, haven't impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
I could never hate America.....not the one I love.I can get pissed off at it.But hate?...never.
well this certainly isn't bias... good link with good logic
“Each nation feels superior to other nations. That breeds patriotism - and wars.”
“Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”
Jewel @ 6:
Precisely! Thank you!
The american way of life - as seen around the world - is destroying the planet and enslaving people to pointless lives working jobs they hate to make money so they can disposably consume.
Patriotic to what and who exactly?
If it weren't for liberals there wouldn't be any effing bald eagles.
Save Our Troops
So-called conservatives equate hating Bush with hating America. I do hate Bush and his vision of America that wages offensive invasions and occupations of foreign countries and violates the Constitution. After all, Bush got hatred the old-fashioned way. He earned it.
Old Billy @ 12:
That's a fact.
Here is the America I love....
http://www.helderweb.com/Remember.html
its time to dump republican patritism in the Boston Harbor
along with the bad tea
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
anon @ 11:
Tis about right.
mudshark @ 7:
Billions disagree with you.
Josh @ 9:
Not true.
Chris @ 17:
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an "elite" few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
Ron McD @ 15:
"and you DIDN’T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?"
I always call americans on that when they do it (as 99% of the time I can tell the difference) as a lot of them give Canada a bad name.
Nice list though. I can't see any of it being restored or ever true again, the crime is done, the damage has gone so far it wont heal now.
Chris @ 17:
They aren't done yet, it's going to get a lot worse yet, as long as the people don't unite and do something about it the administration and the power behind the scenes have won.
why are we still calling them "conservatives"? they're "regressives" remember? :D
Who's caused more terror in the world then the modern concervative party? so your either a Terrorist or you with the Terrorists? what the fuck is that?
"questioning your government’s policies was seen as ‘participating in the process’, and not ‘giving aid and comfort to the enemy’?"
Amen brother.
Josh @ 19:
Wha Wha partisanship. Get over the "partisanship is the problem" mentality. Even though you claim to be above the fray by saying a pox on both their houses, you still dodge the fundamental issues debate just like when a Republican or Lieberman complains about partisanship. Some Democrats or Some Republicans may actually reflect some people's stances on issues and partisanship is a legitimate way to advocate for your stances on issues.
On the collectivist point - yes, its collectivist and you should be very grateful for it. In a truly non-collectivist system none of your capital would go to assist in any community defense, welfare, or enforcement. Both parties are collectivist, the Republicans turn the money hose onto crony capitalist corporate buddies, Halliburton Bechtel Blackwater KBR. The Democrats turn the money hose onto the poor, the sick, the weak, the old, or those that simply cannot compete in a free market system. The Democratic Parties's notion of collectivism is on its face superior to the model proposed by Republicans. Under a Republican system the connected win, and the weak lose. Under a Democratic system the weak don't lose as bad and the connected don't win as much. You will not be able to abolish this system unless you abolish the federal government. Which isn't going to happen. Sorry.
reyvn
I can't understand why they call them conservatives either. Conservatives are supposed to be for fiscal responsibility and not having the government interfere in our private lives. Uh huh. The Bush administration is not "regressive" - it's out and out fascist.
Uh the defintion of "terror" is the use of fear or violence for politcal gain. That would make most of the US Government, Terrorists. The defintion of Genocide is the systematic destruction of a nation, ethnic group, or religion, uh like Iraq, Shiites, Sunnis, and Islam. What ever happened to the hunt for the nine eleven "Conspirator" Osama Bin Laden? What about the U.S. Military Grade Anthrax "Terrorist"? I'm beyond disgusted with the Democrats, the Republicans, the Troops, the "news" media. Sick to death of it.
The linked site had a comment that the rural folks throughout America know the republican way of life, and think that's the way to go. Well...
I have friends in an east Texas small town that just had the town dump privatized; each load now costs $50 to dump. Their electricity rates doubled in one month, with a notice three days before receiving a greatly increased bill. Their town cut the police force in half, saying that the officers weren't needed...well, they weren't needed by the town fathers in their gated community on the edge of town; they were needed by the rest of the town, who were suffering from low wages (Wal-Mart, of course, put most local businesses under), unemployment, and an epidemic of meth-cookers moved into town. Folks, this is what much of this country has to look forward to under these scumbags.
I love the Bill of Rights.
It's amazing what gay Drudge gets away with. He's now blazing the rumor that evil Hillary is a sick lesbian. The fact that he can do this while protecting his own closet and remaining a GOP shining star is breathtaking. The guy seems unstoppable when he's intent on smearing someone.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1930448/posts?q=1&;page=1#1
Democracy cannot exist in a two-party system where one party is determined to use whatever corrupt means possible to destroy democracy. That's the Republicans.
There is an EVIL out of the republican institutions,
that here a man with large purse
has little SOUL in which he keeps...........
Edgar ALen poe
purvis ames @ 25:
Good point. The current form of neocon "conservatism" is in reality a malignant mutation of the genuine article, which was respectable once. No more.
Fuck Re[ublicans
pissed off liberal
quibble @ 27:
But these "scumbags" were ther 59 million that sent Shrubya back to the White House. Talk about voting against your own best interests...
And that eagle looks like he's kicking ass and taking names.... ;-)
I am a patriot. Most conservatives are not patriots, they're jingoists.
Twice, but different times, on Election Day at the Polling Site, an elementary school, I was yelled at by GOPers. They yelled at the top of their lungs, "I don't anything from god damn fucking communists!" when we only asked them if they wanted a sample ballot. They even yelled at a voter as he passed one of ! That was on school properity.
We used to have our polling sites here in Houston in elementary schools. Now they hold them in churches. I think it's to put the fear of (supposed) God in to those that fear, to solidfy the Republican't stronghold here in Texas (not to mention to destroy separation of church and state.)
What I do HATE is whats happened to America..........but that doesn't mean I don't love this country.It may be fucked up from time to time...but it's still a lot better than some of the other countries.....JerryM...yeah I know...billions would disagree with me...........
I guess this is way education is gone in America. Soldiers who aren't Republican but died for the United States of America are the enemy while all those Republicans who refused to serve the Military are hero's. Nice to know that insight into who is for America and who's against. We see the Law Makers who never joined the Military in the time of need nor will they send their kids now but are calling all the shots. We see Law Makers who are perverts, child molesters and hire prostitutes as that's now the American way. Rudy is a cross dresser and a Mob member and George W. Bush is dumb as a door knob but that's ok too.
the thing I hate the most is ignorance...and the willingness to accept the status quo.That's what I hate.
Josh @ 10:
Music to my ears to know that others also see through this dumbass contrived left-right divide. Thank you, my friends.
Republicans have loyalty too one thing, their greed, their selfishness and their belief they are too good too fight for the ideals they swear liberals do not adhere too, funny how many liberals, democrats served with valor in all our wars, but these things are never considered, it is always them against us with republicans, today they have pretty much degenerated into chicken hawks, talk a good game, but comes too putting their money where their mouths are they have other important things too do such as the young republicans, too busy too enlist in military but die hard supporters of the war, just not willing too fight for it, not unusual since commander in chief "Chicken Hawk Bush Jr" hid in national guard, where everyone knew in my generation it was a guaranteed dodge too avoid vietnam, then take second in command chicken hawk dead eye Dick Cheney, avid hunter who shoots his hunting partners with gusto, but dodged vietnam with 4 college deferrments, and one deferrment due too his wife was pregnant..., then go too their now candidates running for office, Guilliani [aka drag queen mayor of NYC], dodged vietnam, but says he is tough, will "have someone else torture the enemy with gusto", Romney dodged vietnam with mormon church connections....has 5 sons who not one is serving in this war they all believe in with such phony fervor, yes they are heros all are they not. I remember a famous saying that "Patriotism was the last virtue of a scoundrel", and these chicken hawks seem too fit this scoundrel version of patriotism too a tee....
PS...may have misquoted my last quote it may be "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" either way soundrels seem too be hiding behind real heros dying every day in Iraq....and they call themselves Republicans...
and to those who say Liberals hate America.....I say FUCK YOU...
Josh @ 19:
No partner you do the folks here a disservice by try to get across an idea that repugs are somehow the same as normal folk. they aren't and somehow you like to think that saying that they are different from the lower class and the middle class that somehow we are the same. We aren't not the same!
Ron Paul is a libertarian hack and Dennis Kucinich is a good man that happens to be short, so he won't be elected.
Please don't try and tell us that your one of the guys!
"One in 10 public high school students in Chicago wears a military uniform to school and takes classes -- including how to shoot a gun properly -- from retired veterans.
That number is expected to rise as junior military reserve programs expand across the country now that a congressional cap of 3,500 units has been lifted from the nearly century-old scheme."
This is direct from Yahoo news. And they complain about using child soldiers in Africa. The fact of the matter is that this country has degenerated into something like the Congo under Mobuto.
Progressives believe that every American is entitled to basic and catastrophic health care.
Oh please! Somebody please tell me how repugs are patriots.
repugs are idiot (NO) savants
I take the conversation to the Constitution and point out how the Republican'ts are destroying it. And if my opponent gets to saying something bad or incorrect about the Constitution then I'll say that the opponent hates America. It usually doesn't get that far because they realize where I'm going and that they're on the wrong side.
(though they never admit it. They just drop the debate.)
Interesting conversation I had about the divided partisanship. Used to be that Republican and Democrats could be seen together in public function and had a chance to rub one idealism over the other. And now if they were to be seen it was detrimental to their career to be seen as a traitor. Republican band together to vote as a solid block on all issues. then a Democrat was seen kissing a president and he got thrown out of the party for it. Neither party could be seen in public together which further divide any co-operation on any bill. The Dictator continue to veto many votes, regardless to any compromise that was thrown in his way.
The bottom line is that we lost any communication between the party to resolve important issue as well as losing any representation by the people. Fear has taking over any sensibility that the body of govt could have had.
That is why I'll vote for the one that doesn't have fear making their decision, the one who was right about this war from the beginning. Strength through peace is inevitable.
Erroll @ 48:
Basic as in having a doctor, you imbecile.
Funny how most domestic terrorists consider themselves to be conservative Republicans isn't it.
That eagle is a raptor. He will be here long after we have been extinct because raptors have evolved. We have not.
The republicans believe in survival of the fittest (fattest?)
They would kill and eat each other if they had the chance. . .
Stanley Rosenthal @ 51:
the problem is though that debates may be very good, but they don't really accomplish a damn thing.
It's the money that counts. that works better than all sorts of good debate.
You're either a conservative republican or an effing freedom fighter .
No, the simplest comeback is "No, we don't hate America, we just hate what the 'conservative movement' has DONE to it over the last 40 years."
Creating a BULLY-BOY, bellicose foreign policy that exploits and degrades people in foreign countries, betrays America's core values, and encourages people in other countries to hate Americans so much that they're willing to die as long as it means killing a few Americans.
Turning our government over to MULTINATIONAL corporations, who have no loyalty to Americans.
Splitting the country in half, for purely political purposes, to turn liberals against conservatives, Democrats against Republicans, urban dwellers against rural dwellers, northerners against southerners. All so long as it leads to keeping Republicans in power by the narrowist margin.
Encouraging Americans to think that 'liberty' means that "I'm free to do whatever I want, and also free to pass laws preventing my fellow americans from doing things that I don't like." Encouraging and nurturing the 'tyrany of the majority.'
Raising political patronage to record levels, while gutting and neutering all government institutions to the point where they can't do what they were intended to do (test new drugs, test toys for safety, test food for E. coli contamination etc) and then turn around and claim this is an example of how government is useless and evil.
To hate all that is NOT to hate America. It's just to hate what the conservative movement has done to it.
tHeGaMeOfLiFe @ 53:
Neither your comment, nor your infantile ad hominem attack, made any sense whatsoever.
The funny thing is that Eagle wouldn't be in that picture if it wasn't for us liberals looking out for the environment. It wasn't too long ago that eagle was taken off the endagered list due to our efforts, not theirs.
If they had their way this country would be a toxic wasteland the way the conservatives rape this country's land, resources and wildlife for their own greedy interests whether it be for money or to feed their egos.
> the problem is though that debates may be very good, but they don’t really accomplish a damn thing.
Sure it does. It gets them thinking. IMHO if it weren't for debate like that, then there wouldn't be a large majority against the occupation already, for instance.
"Liberals hate America" is a silly tactic to but the "liberal" in a defensive position. It is not based on anything logical and in fact is such a vague concept it is basically meaningless (how does one "hate" a country exactly?). You hurt yourself by even addressing such foolishness as a legitimate statement. I'd prefer to respond with something that illustrates the meaningless absurdity of the statement, like "Conservatives have sex with little boys" or "Republicans make God cry." Then let THEM be defensive.
I hate anything that keeps liberals on the defensive. We are playing their game when we say stuff like, "No, we believe in liberty" as a response. While perfectly true, it keeps us in defensive mode.
When cons say, "Liberals hate america" we should say something like, "cons want us all to be slaves to corporate power."
That's lame, but the point is that we don't want to be in defensive mode. Everyone knows that's inflammatory hyperbole. IMO the best way to defend against it is to come up with our own dumbass meme that attacks them.
Of course, progressives have never been very good at delivering a unified message. Most of us realize that important issues are laced with nuance and complexity and we tend to disagree on the details which is both the strength and weakness of our party.
gwen @ 63:
Right on. Yep.
The Bald eagle which many classify as a bird of prey is actually more of a scavenger than a hunter.
I have often thought the American Golden Eagle should have been the eagle to represent this country, but now I think the scavenger was the right choice.
the mouth-breathers can choke on their Cheetos
If it wasn't for "liberal" environmentalists those bald eagles would all be DEAD by now.
Gwen #63 "how does one “hate” a country exactly?"
This would best be addressed to the Great American Culture Warrior O'Reilly. He has all the answers, and he seems to know more 'American Haters' than anyone else and has Coulter, Ingraham, Cunningham. Malkin et al as additional sources.
You're either a liberal or a fascist.
(posted at skewz.com)
ronjohn #69 - cool site.
here's hoping my fellow liberals had a nice thanksgiving and that your american bald eagle was a tasty as ours.
Wow, the New Nazi Slogan! I didn't know that Patriotism equates to Fascism? Wow - must be Bushit's New Educational system. Wake Up American! Damien is in Office!
The Republican Party is fundamentally a criminal organization of rich people and the closest thing we have in America to a Nazi Party. Republicans, as individuals, tend to talk like common thugs even if they're wearing a $5000 suit or $300 hair cuts.
My observation has been that money turns most people into thugs, if they already weren't thugs to begin with. Most of them suffer from chronic meanness and terminal egomania.
Ron McD @ 16 :
Amont the points your link listed :
REMEMBER WHEN you hitchhiked through Europe as a teenager, and you DIDN’T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?
This is BS.
In Europe you will still be welcomed as a guest no matter where you go. Contrary to the US, no one in Europe pulled the kind of crap like the Americans did post-9/11 and you can be assured, the people in Europe knew what was said about them.
If you come to Europe, you should act like anyone else here and leave your inflated ego at home. You are a guest and will be treated with the highest respect but as a guest it is also customary to respect those who you are visiting.
You should think about who is representing you outside of the US. If your only contact with people from the US were immature jerks, how would you feel towards them?
This might just emphasize the real problem with the US: The people BS themselves way to often instead of learning about the truth they would rather take someone else's worlds for fact.
'They hate us for our freedoms'
Someone sez
I’m not a Republican or a Democrat. I’m an American. I know both parties are bought and paid for corporate whores and that’s why the Democrats aren’t stopping the war, haven’t impeached the Liar and Thief, etc. It is all a game that left vs right to divide conquer.
-----------------------------------------------------------
Why, the very idea!
While this is true upon the precipice - it is rediculous as a basis for your vote.
Bet you were for Ralph 2000.
Get your balls or your clit away from the voter booth 2008.
We have a bigger problem than preserving a Democrat or Republic Party in our government.
That PROBLEM is an AMERICAN PROBLEM; which is preserving the rule of law. Preserving the U.S. Constitution and making sure that each of our representative; whether republican, democrat or liberal delivers it's oath of allegence.
MANY AMERICANS are failing to pay attention to a wreck, here. The collision has already occured. AND AMERICA is recklessly driving-by as they pay attention to the race to the 2008 election.
No one is paying attention to the BUSH DISASTER.
No one is paying attention to the ruins of Katrina of New Orleans.
No one is paying attention to the Walter Reed Hospital.
No one is paying attention to the 9-11 attack.
No one is paying attention to Valerie Plame.
No one is paying attention to Downing Street Memo.
No one is paying attention to the Melting Glaziers.
No one is paying attention to Scooter Libby.
No one is paying attention to Tom Delay
No one is paying attention to FISA
No one is paying attention to Hallliburton.
No one is paying attention to the broken people.
No one is paying attention to relevance of our U.S. Constitution.
No one is paying attention to the 10 million AMERICAN children who have lost SCHIP health care.
No one is paying attention to the millions of family who have lost their homes to foreclosures.
No one is paying attention that our educational system is falling apart
NO one is paying attention that Laws were broken at the federal level.
No one is paying attention to IMPEACHMENT
No ONe is paying attention that AMERICA is seriously changing before their noses
Everyone has become a couch potato after becoming more obsessed with their TV to tell them what is important for the day. Black Friday Sale;
People are standing at mid-night and going to the extreme at camping outside department stores to race for what? STUFF? while millions of people are dying in Iraq and Afghanistan? To enrich the very establishment that is the root of our nations ILL? Instant gratification is NOT going to solve Global WARMING. Its not going to insure your security. Its not going to make your world a better place.
If you want change.....and you are not willing to have your voice heard on the street in Washington D.C........This WAS your opportunity AMERICA to make a statement to the ESTABLISHMENT that YOU (WE) have the collective power as AMERICAN CONSUMER to affect CHANGE NOW....by NOT shopping.
When YOU STOP consuming when the establishment EXPECTS YOU to make the CONSUMPTION.....that is a powerful message.
When YOU STOP buying print media; that is a powerful statement to the news-paper.
When YOU STOP buying items made in china; retailed in Wal-Mart. That is a powerful Statement.
When YOU prove them WRONG....rather than do what is projected by the media-hype; that is a powerful statement by the PEOPLE.
WE THE PEOPLE can affect CHANGE NOW rather than wait for the 2008 election.
IF YOU WANT to make a STATEMENT......RETURN all that YOU BOUGHT and HAVE YOUR CHRISTMAS SHOPPING after the election. By your families gift when WE THE PEOPLE reach our VICTORY. That is a statement. I have already promised my family that I will work on the greatest gift for them by fighting for our U.S. Constitution and the rule of law. When WE THE PEOPLE finally get our ACCOUNTABILITY IN PLACE through IMPEACHMENT and ending the WAR and bringing our Troops home, That would BE CHRISTMAS worthy of celebration.
It's a SEASON for ELECTION: "IF YOU VOTE FOR ME" PROMISES of PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES" I will hand you all the abstract illusions; without any concrete solutions seems to be the message of the TOP-TIER "electable", name-recognized, media favorite candidates who has the MILLIONS of DOLLARS that can be had by the media shits.
The ELECTION has become the biggest distraction to the most IMPORTANT ISSUES WE face today, NOW.
For years your family carried out the legacy of Franklin Roosevelt.
For years your family voted for the best interest of your people.
This was the legacy of John F. Kennedy.
Steady, steady. Get your tickets ready.
frank @ 75:
No, actually THIS is BS. I've lived in Europe in the 1970s and the 1990s, and you are doomed as soon as you open your mouth and an American accent comes out. This is a fact, that I've observed time and time again. The other thing I've observed time and time again is the irate and indignant denial by Europeans that this actually happens. The irony is that, while Americans believe many of their own mythology about being better than everybody else, Europeans swallow a lot of their own bull as well, in how much better they are than Americans. And since only Americans are ignorant, xenophobic, and treat individual people rudely because of the actions of their government, or the actions of a few citizens of that country, then the Europeans must be above all that, and it COULDN'T possibly be happening. The same applies to American expatriates who live in Europe and view Europeans through rose-colored glasses. But whenever some European claims that Europeans are not rude ot Americans, I just dare them to fake an American accent for a week. Everytime they go into a restaurant, pub, hotel, or bistro, just pretend to be an American, and affect an American accent. Try that for a week, and see how they're treated.
(Also, when we were in Europe in the 1970s, we fell in with hundreds of back-packing students, and not ONE of them was wearing an American flag on their clothing or back packs. 25% of the Amreicans we fell in with wore no flag or national symbol at all (which is kind of silly to begin with) and 75% were displaying a Canadian flag. That was no coincidence, it was a LEARNED behavior, and it was learned for a reason.)
This is something I wrote in response to some neo-conservatives at a discussion board a little over a year ago that were constantly charging anyone that didn't support the war in Iraq with 'supporting the terrorists'.
Don't spin on the 'terrorist loving' BS. That is some old, lame, crap. I personally don't believe you or any of the righties here supported Clinton when he was president...hell, Rush made it his mission in life to undermine his every move. He could have gone to Iran himself, captured Bin Laden and brought him home in a straight jacket and Limp-Balls would have accused him of doing it to cover the Lewinski BJ, And every one of you would have chimed right in.
You seem to forget that Bush's approval ratings were pretty damn high after 9-11....right through the invasion of Afghanistan, I would be willing to wager that more than a few of the posters here supported him during those days. He pissed away those support numbers (and his credibility)here and around the world when he began beating the drum for war in Iraq, and ultimately flushed it when he ordered the invasion.
If he (and you) were so f*ing interested in getting the terrorists, he would have stayed on course in Afghanistan, or perhaps focused on the country where the perpetrators of 9-11 actually came from....Saudi Arabia. Every argument for why we went to Iraq has been refuted or proven false...every single one....but now that those arguments have been exhausted, it's time to pull the trump card that fascists love the most......questioning the patriotism of anyone who dissents. Well, you can take that BS, fascist trick and shove it.
You want to question MY patriotism?
I question the patriotism of those who feel that our brave soldiers are nothing but cannon fodder to be used and expended in the pursuit of oil and power, and I question the patriotism of those that support leaders who treat the soldiers in this way.
I question the patriotism of those that seek to undermine and rewrite the constitution in order to eliminate all challenges to their authority, and I question the patriotism of those that support such actions.
I question the patriotism of an administration that has used it's position to garner no-bid contracts and other lucrative financial windfalls for their co-conspirators, and I question the patriotism of those that would turn a blind eye to such corruption.
I question the patriotism (and bravery) of those who steadfastly support a war...as long as they or their children don't have to fight in it, and I question the patriotism of those who refuse to take them to task on it while the children of others are dying.
Our country was founded and built by patriots that questioned and challenged the ruling authority. If they had thought like the right wingers here, this country would still be paying homage to the Queen of England today.
Pericles @ 79 :
I am half American and have lived in Germany all my life (30+ years).
I grew up in both worlds as a US military dependent and a German. Having friends and family of both nationalities.
We and other military families travelled a lot in Europe and there was NEVER an issue.
Not to mention our speaking multiple languages gave us the bonus of knowing what people were saying.
Heck while the Iron Curtain was still up we even travelled to Hungary in an old Ford station wagon and the people NEVER treated us differently.
If anything Europeans have a problem with each other then with Americans.
Even today, when I speak English and people hear my accent and I tell them of my origins, they only speak well of the US, even through all that has happened in the last few years.
I had never had to hide my American citizenship and origins.
Though I certainly do not wave it around today.
I have taken more heat from Americans for being half-German then the other way around.
I have no idea who you are basing your view off of, but all I can say to it is:
Should the entire US be based on the actions of their Military representatives in Europe?
(think high-school football team in countries where you can get alcohol with 16-18 yrs)
I think the best thing to do is to ask the winger in question what they think of gay Americans. Or unemployed Americans. Or Muslim Americans. Or pro-choice Americans. Or liberal Americans. Or just Americans who don't like Bush.
Then ask them how they can love America so much when they seem to hate the vast majority of Americans.
If you're a conservative republican you are either a bathroom dwelling homosexual ala Larry Craig or a child molesting homosexual ala Mark Foley.
you people really should consider moving beyond the jingoistic language of patriotism and america love
What do you love about america, exactly? I'm not sure I can think of anything ...
haha...all the comments about bald eagles are too much, as is the picture. We didn't nearly wipe out the bald eagle, we nearly wiped out the bald eagle in the US. Folks in British Columbia laugh at us all the time. But maybe there's some poetic justice in the symbol of our nation being endangered while north of the border you can see a bald eagle picking at road kill on almost any trip between Vancouver and the ferry port to Vancouver Island.
I've been to a lot of places on the globe, pre and post 9/11 and Iraq, and have only once been mistreated by anyone. An old Russian guy followed my brothers and i chanting "Yankee go home" until i turned and, in Russian, asked him "why?" He turned around and left, onlookers smiled. That posing as a Canadian is BS. Represent yourself, your country will be seen by people you meet through you. You will also find that folks all over the world are just as jingoistic and ignorant as Americans, just as you will find good people both here and abroad.
And if you travel well, you'll understand why billions of people hate "us"...they have plenty of reason to, but just one real encounter with a real American can be enough to soften their feelings. Just like one real encounter with another culture can be enough to make an American realize that we don't have the only right way to live.
"REMEMBER WHEN you hitchhiked through Europe as a teenager, and you DIDN'T have to replace the American flag on your knapsack with a Canadian flag in order to be a welcomed guest in a foreign country?"
Actually I noticed this pattern when I went to Italy in 2003 days after the war in Iraq started, I met some americans who did that and also I actually met a canadian couple who had a canadian flag on their backpacks because (get this) they didn't want to be confused as americans. It really was sad to experience such sentiment regarding our country.
Another vivid memory was seeing balcony after balcony in Pisa, Sienna, Florence with rainbow-colored flag affixed on them with the words "PACE" (PEACE).
Now about that poster.........
Unfortunately this is what today's political discourse has been reduced to thanks to narrow minded and petty right wing fanatics who are not that different than fanatics and extremists around the world. So infantile, so void of reason.
Actually that'd be more accurately described as Nationalism than Patriotism.
I can't believe Republicans think that Democrats "Hate America" when we aren't the ones in the White House, we aren't the ones declaring war & we aren't the ones who are making enemies faster we can make them.
It's just ridiculous.
-N
Where does the image come from? Could be a joke from *either* side of the fence.
Did that eagle get Phil Donohue's former hairdresser?
Call me what you will about whether or not I'm a Liberal...but you better be smiling and if not you better not be within reach of my fist.
I don't take exception to the label of Liberal mind you, but I've always found that, when asked if I am, a response of 'if being a Liberal means that I'm 180 degrees away from a George Bush, Dick Cheney, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, yatta, yatta, yatta,...then you're damn right I'm a Liberal.
Shouldn't that be a picture of a chickenhawk instead of an eagle?
You're either a conservative republican..
.. or a GOP Presidential candidate.
Is that a picture of either Kate O'Beirne and Mona Charen?
Looks exactly like both of 'em.
None of America's problems will be solved by the election of Democrats. We will still keep out military in Iraq and all over the world. Government spending and deficits will still be continue at record levels. Oil prices will still reach record levels. Illegal aliens will continue to inundate the country. Halliburton, Black Talon and CACI will continue to the earn billions in profits, the health care problem will not be solved, gay marriage will still be outlawed.
Chris @ 17:
Republicans have done nothing but destroy this country and hurt our troops.
You do yourself a disservice by thinking in a partisan manner. The Democrat and Republican PARTIES are BOTH nothing but vehicles for top-down oligarchical collectivism, where an “elite” few control all. Once you understand the false nature of partisanship, from a Hegelian Dialect angle, you see these scum for what they are. Ron Paul and or Dennis Kucinich are our only hope!
- trying the technique of making it all a wash, by implying that what the republicans do is the same as the democrats, which is to imply that there is no obvious choice. I'll take the smaller pile of flaming dog doo at my doorstep, than the republican's giant load of flaming crap. If the dems have an action problem, it's because they are not a rubber stamp coalition.
Ron Paul's voting record speaks for itself and he has succeeded in politics by nearly always following the republican voting record or writing the legislation they want to have. Kucinich has both succeeded and failed in politics by sticking up for the beliefs of the common man, whether or not, it was his party's wishes.
To compare them as similar choices .... well, that says all I need to know about you.
96 mrogi
That's what passes for patriotism now days?
nihilist homosexual menace @ 84:
One of the things I love about America is you haven't been arrested, hanged, shot, beheaded, etc. for writing that comment...
Reality_Check Says: nihilist homosexual menace @ 84:
you people really should consider moving beyond the jingoistic language of patriotism and america love
What do you love about america, exactly? I’m not sure I can think of anything …
One of the things I love about America is you haven’t been arrested, hanged, shot, beheaded, etc. for writing that comment…
Correct, but that alone is not justification for what is currently happening to our country, should I remain silent just because, say, a more "patriotic" person tells me to do so?, the freedoms we enjoy today are thanks to those who fought during the 40's and 50's (the greatest generation). Beyond that, most wars were waged because of dark purposes and lies. Soldiers died for petty interests and for those who wanted to gain more power rather than spreading freedom or democracy.
Reality_Check @ 99:
As you wouldn't in the vast majority of the world and the people hearing it would accept it as your opinion.
Say that to the 50%+ of america who love war killing and Bush etc ....... and they will physically attack you. You yourself need the reality check, america isn't the one and only place in the world where people can think they have an opinion ...... most of the world actually respects others, unlike the fascist states of america.
Umm, I could be wrong about this but I think the term "effing" is European--Irish or British, to be exact. I never heard it before I moved to Dublin.
Just exactly what kind of "patriots" are these Republicans?
The proper response to this spitting insult is a quick fist to the face.
Since all 'liberals' are 'wimps,' they'll be too embarrassed to call the cops.
Post American @ 27:
So am I sick of it. Everything said by bush & his just as bad administration minions running their mouth and flying across the country (especially Cheney telling bush boy this and that) all the time; has to be taking orders from this so called "Shadow Government" they all work for plus their OWN gain to boot! Bush is only the "puppet" but still an ass in my opinion. This shadow gov. needs bush and the rest of them right now and when they no more do, they are scattered in different directions. Wouldn't some other people believe this also? Take a look at Powell; Rumsfeld; Blair; Gonzales, etc. but still keeping Rice, Cheney, and Bush Jr. himself. They are ALWAYS giving us all the element of surprise aren't they? Take more away from US, give more to THEM!
Especially since this so called Executive Branch came into power. (And don't forget wide open borders ever since as well so all these "illegals" can come over and expect everything FREE to them here in America no thanks to this same one we currently have in the White House.)
While I appreciate Dr. Lakoff's sentiment in these responses, my experience with conservatives suggests that they shrug off any answer, regardless of how eloquent or sincere.
I once had the misfortune to work in the same office as a Mormon bishop who listened to Rush Limbaugh every day and watched Fox News every night. After interacting with this individual for six years, I'm fairly confident that if I were to say something like, "No. We love democracy and we want to return it to America," he would merely roar with laughter.
The problem with trying to speak reasonably with these people is that many of them are simply not reasonable.
Too often, and usually out of ignorance, there are those who confuse patriotism with nationalism. True patriots support their country when it is in the right - and take it to task when or where it goes wrong, supporting the Constitution and the rule of law. Those who embrace nationalism will wave the flag and support their government whether it is right or wrong, usually have no idea what is written in the Constitution and care little for law.
Truthfully now . . . which one are you?
You all sound like bickering children.
must be that I'm an 'effing terrorist' because I don't like fascism, I don't like corporatism, I don't like the Military Industrial Complex murdering my president and installing a 'coup d'etat' in 1963 with George H.W. Bush's help, and I don't think members of the republican party should be allowed to breathe air, occupy three dimensional space, or 'force' the majority of us who are sane and reasonable, to flush our nation down the toilet so that a very slim oligarchy rule can benefit while the nation is looted and destroyed from within by neocon bastards. I demand fair elections, squeaky clean, ethical government for and by "We The People" not "for and by the oligarch, plutocracy rule as it is under dictator bush.
must be ahm "one of dem dere terr'ists" (bush language), huh?
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