Th 11 percenters are up to their usual shiite...and?

And they also ATTACKED KUCINICH, FOR ISSUING PILOT’S LICENSES TO UFOs

The Marines choose not
to support the troops. More people joined the unemployment line. Rudd says he'll pull out half-way through '08.

rudy prosecuted milken and rudy isn't half the man milken is.

Ron Paul got treated the same way. Any way. I encourage you all to research and find out the real truth because what we see on TV is not the truth and if there is truth it will be criticized and put under wraps real quick.

if i cant have kucinich i may settle for edwards , at this point anyway,

This country is in for another 4 years of the dark ages if we elect another president without the education to understand evolution and guts to admit that it explains our existence on this planet.

The Huckster is a very nice person but not the best choice for president for the 21st century.

At least Kucinich speaks his mind and isn't afraid to voice strong opinions. He's got way bigger balls than anyone else that was on that stage. He's firmly against the war and he's a true ally of the middle class... what more do you want? Democrats are scared of Kucinich because he actually seems to have *gasp* a backbone!

If it comes down to Hillary, I'm voting for a third party.

Tim, the Enchanter @ 16:

At least Kucinich speaks his mind and isn't afraid to voice strong opinions. He's got way bigger balls than anyone else that was on that stage. He's firmly against the war and he's a true ally of the middle class... what more do you want? Democrats are scared of Kucinich because he actually seems to have *gasp* a backbone!

If it comes down to Hillary, I'm voting for a third party.

The enchanted is out of his mind. If you vote third party you help a republican to win. Let's take the whitehouse and the congress and then fix the party. There is no rest for the righteous.

An administration change is not going to derail where this country is headed.

Yes, Huckabee ruled the debate -- and for a sad, hilarious lesson in denial, go read Hugh Hewitt's column today: "Romney Won. Big." Even his readers don't believe him anymore.

But Huckabee fought to parole Wayne Dumond, a serial rapist who served only 7 years for the kidnapping/rape of a 17 year old girl. Despite letters from his other victims, Huckabee even wrote a letter to Dumond -- who was released...and then raped, murdered a woman.

Huckabee also quietly boasted of executing more people than anybody in Arkansas history. Just like Bush. Another compassionate Christian. Huckabee is a better man, but his fundamentalism is scary.

I have voted republican, democrat and third party. I will only vote democrat anymore. Let's fix the democratic party and remember that it stands for us better than any other party. Don't take your personal feelings for granted and expect change. Let's change the party.

Lots of trolls and Ralphers here.
That won't help Kucinich.
Jesus.
I was going to give him praise but...

budda.
Why not Mohammed?
Or Bush?

Love the switch pitch.

shawn @ 19:

i am a liberal and i am voting for ron paul why? he actually sounds like he knows economics and when you live check to check and have no insurance that is priority not simple lobbist talking points

Two simple, obvious points, hes still big oil and a conservative, which means you are screwed regardless. Ron Paul is a scam. Dont forget what happened last time people voted for a Xtian, conservative, oil, big business man....

OK.
Let's start fresh without trolls or abject Hillary haters.
Dennis Kucinich perhaps best represents the values and current positions of the
Democratic Party base.
Doesn't mean he'll be the nominee.
And these debate moderators won't help.

to change the subject, the producers have offered the writers nuttin' but rollbacks...

During the last Dem debate I started yelling at the TV because of the blatant inequity of answer time among the candidates. DK has no chance but come on! Give the man a chance to talk! He does add so much to the conversation and could open some people's eyes to the reality and possibilities of our situation. But then...I'd much rather really like to know...people are dying to know...which is it HRC? Diamonds or pearls? F'n BS!

Tim, the Enchanter @ 16:

At least Kucinich speaks his mind and isn't afraid to voice strong opinions. He's got way bigger balls than anyone else that was on that stage. He's firmly against the war and he's a true ally of the middle class... what more do you want? Democrats are scared of Kucinich because he actually seems to have *gasp* a backbone!

If it comes down to Hillary, I'm voting for a third party.

Thank you for having some balls. Anyone who thinks fascism is a bad thing shouldn't vote for Hillary. Vote for liberals, not Democrats. I will not vote for Hillary. The Democratic Party will never change as long as they know you're too scared not to vote for them. The Democrats know the Left has nowhere to go so they keep rolling out the same corporate puppets. The only leverage you have is your vote. The only thing more cowardly than Democratic politicians seem to be Democratic voters. Did simply voting along party lines help us in '06? Your reps need to be held accountable. Dennis and Gravel are the only two presidential choices liberals have.

budda @ 5:

Also, I'm hoping of course Hillary looses Iowa, but either way - whoever gets lower between Edwards and Obama in the first few primaries should drop out and pledge support to the other. If she takes those nominations that is the only strategy to take her out.

But at the same time I'm hoping soon either Obama or Edwards will get some dirty information and spread it to Drudge and the media. It is right now when she is shaky that another Clinton scandle will have people bowing to Edwards and Obama to save us.

Obama's main goal right now though should be pushing black voters away from Hillary. I'm sure he can find something in the Clinton presidency to exploit. And if he does that he's only got to convince a small amount of Hillary's woman base to support him.

If that's all Obama & Edwards have got to offer (more bogus swiftboating thru the Clinton years), then they couldn't be more pathetic & Rovian. It's sad that you have such an extremely low opinion of them as presidential possibilities. But I'll take your word for their many shortcomings when compared to Hillary's qualifications & experience. Playing the race & gender cards on behalf of Obama is really desperate & ignorant besides incredibly insulting to Obama. He's that unqualified to be POTUS? Jeez, thanks for the heads up!

shawn @ 19:

i am a liberal and i am voting for ron paul why? he actually sounds like he knows economics and when you live check to check and have no insurance that is priority not simple lobbist talking points

Now where have I heard that sales pitch before? I'm not very religious, but I have a friend named Jesus Christ I'd like to talk with you about.

Ron @ 24:

I have voted republican, democrat and third party. I will only vote democrat anymore. Let's fix the democratic party and remember that it stands for us better than any other party. Don't take your personal feelings for granted and expect change. Let's change the party.

What about, having the Dems fixing their own party first, and then try to tackle bigger fish like the Houses and the Presidency.

Sorry, but I am tired of people putting party over country. If the dems can't even get their own house in order, as witness by the "amazing" job they have done as the majority party in both houses. Why should I trust them to be able to fix something orders of magnitude harder like the mess that Boosh et al has left us?

Jesus, so basically we have to chose between GOP and GOP-lite, and hope that if GOP-lite once elected decides to become friendlier to the democrat leftist base. Even though once elected there is little to no incentive for the GOP-lite faction to move an inch to the left, since they already have the power so why should they bother.

I mean, seriously are some of you that f*&king naive?

i wonder why more of you arent calling dennis flaky or crazy?
seems to be the thing to do here whenever dennis comes up..him and ron paul..

i still ask all of you who shit on these two guys...

WHATS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

Dr. Who @ 41:

shawn @ 19:

i am a liberal and i am voting for ron paul why? he actually sounds like he knows economics and when you live check to check and have no insurance that is priority not simple lobbist talking points

No, you are a libertarian, biiig difference, plus you were already voting for him anyways.

Paulettes are funny, "I am a leftist... but I am voting for Paul" or "I used to be a Democrat, but I am voting for Ron Paul"

Come on, like pretending being something you guys are not is going to sway people of lefist persuasion to vote for an extreme right winger?

See, the problem with you right wingers is that you don't understand us liberals. Pretending may work great with the lemming mentality of the right wing lockstep approach to do things. You can steer your whole right wing by just infiltrating and setting the pace, just like your boy Bush et al did by turning the conservative movement in this country into a religious wacko freak show.

Liberals... well, we are a completely different story, you can't set the pace because for better or worse commanding the left field is akin to herding cats.

So, pleaaaaaase Ron Paul bots, just try harder next time. Or at least use a different MO. This whole "I am leftist" disclaimer is just too obvious.

which one of the candidates has your support?....

(i gotta hear this one)

With a wife like that...he's already a major winner. Make that MAJOR ,MAJOR, MAJOR winner.

aaron @ 46:

i wonder why more of you arent calling dennis flaky or crazy?
seems to be the thing to do here whenever dennis comes up..him and ron paul..

i still ask all of you who shit on these two guys...

WHATS YOUR ALTERNATIVE?

Dennis Kucinich could not be further from Ron Paul on many issues. Why are you mentioning them in the same breath?

If you care at all about the environment, Ron Paul is not your candidate.

If you care at all about women's rights, Ron Paul is not your candidate.

If you care at all about healthcare reform, Ron Paul is not your candidate.

If you like Grover Norquist's "drown-it-in-a-bathtub" approach to effective government, go ahead and vote for Ron Paul. Just make sure you have lots of canned goods saved before he's sworn in.

I like Ron Paul on foreign policy issues and civil liberties, but he would be a disaster in finance and social issues. Libertarians forget that there was an Industrial Revolution and other like history from the time of the founding fathers. The founding fathers were not against amendments to the constitution despite what some want you to think. Ron Paul is an honest, well-meaning man, who the media mocks and does not give the attention deserved by the Texas Representative. It appears the media have their favorite candidates and the hell with the rest. Omitting others from the electoral process as the media has done is a moral crime.

I say give the debates back to the League of Women's Voters and give all candidates their fair say...as of right now, these "debates" are a farce and an insult to the electoral process.

A Kucinich Presidency will mean REAL ACCOUNTABILITY.
A Kucinich Presidency will mean exercising IMPEACHMENT, INDICTMENT and IMPRISONMENT.
A Kucinich Presidency will mean restoring the RULE OF LAWS and ENFORCING the U.S. Constitution.

A Kucinich Presidency will mean an END TO CORPORATE controlled and OWNED GOVERNMENT.
A KUCINICH PRESIDENCY will mean RESTORING REAL DEMOCRACY in United STATES.
A KUCINICH PRESIDENCY mean holding WAR CRIMINALS to justice.

A Kucinich Presidency means ENDING government give-aways to corporate interest.
A Kucinich Presidency means NEVER having to worry whether YOU will be denied medical care.
A Kucinich Presidency means every single child in United States will have healthcare and education; whether CORPORATION like it or NOT.
A Kucinich Presidency means LIFE; LIBERTY; and JUSTICE for ALL.

AND THAT MY FELLOW AMERICAN is why HE IS A THREAT to the BIG MACHINES.

WE THE PEOPLE and the WORLD IS READY FOR CHANGE................AND THAT CHANGE is SYNONOMOUS to DENNIS KUCINICH PRESIDENCY.

Immagine IF WE actually have a government that would create a LAW that could RECOVER all the REVENUE that has been STOLEN from our FEDERAL TREASURY? It would mean creating millions of ACCOUNTING and Auditing JOBS for AMERICA. It is possible!

Off Shore Accounts? NO Problem.....WE have Accountants and Auditors to bring REAL accountability. This is a RADICAL CHANGE that we need. WE have the technology. We have the Computers. LETS UTILIZE IT. We have millions of GREAT CREATIVE MIND.

Deregulation destruct................REGULATIONS ensures.

hey look ..some one is actually listening to what ron paul is saying (Chris @ 59)
instead of jumping on the ron paul is a kook rascist woman hater bandwagon

aaron @ 48:

Dr. Who @ 41:

shawn @ 19:

i am a liberal and i am voting for ron paul why? he actually sounds like he knows economics and when you live check to check and have no insurance that is priority not simple lobbist talking points

No, you are a libertarian, biiig difference, plus you were already voting for him anyways.

Paulettes are funny, "I am a leftist... but I am voting for Paul" or "I used to be a Democrat, but I am voting for Ron Paul"

Come on, like pretending being something you guys are not is going to sway people of lefist persuasion to vote for an extreme right winger?

See, the problem with you right wingers is that you don't understand us liberals. Pretending may work great with the lemming mentality of the right wing lockstep approach to do things. You can steer your whole right wing by just infiltrating and setting the pace, just like your boy Bush et al did by turning the conservative movement in this country into a religious wacko freak show.

Liberals... well, we are a completely different story, you can't set the pace because for better or worse commanding the left field is akin to herding cats.

So, pleaaaaaase Ron Paul bots, just try harder next time. Or at least use a different MO. This whole "I am leftist" disclaimer is just too obvious.

which one of the candidates has your support?....

(i gotta hear this one)

Since most of them suck, and I stop giving a shit about the two party scam in this country. I would say that Kucinich is the one that makes me gag the least.

Not that he will ever get anywhere near the nomination, since we will have GOP (Huckabee or Romney, to me the most dangerous due to be the ones who are certifiable as insane religious cuckoos, however the rest of insane apprentices of nazi in the GOP lineup is not any better, oh joy!) or GOP-lite (Clinton or Obama, both equally shitty and full of empty rhetoric...). Ron Paul is a Libertarian in GOP clothing, I would have an ounce of respect for him if he was to run as a libertarian. I would still disagree with most of his positions, which in my humble opinion are batshit crazy, but at least I could respect that he was running for the platform he represents. I would never vote for him, as I am a certified pinko-liberal bastard... and I don't care much for any wacko conservative cretin trying to bring bag the glory days of the robber barons. I was born in the late XX century, and I would like to live my adulthood in the XXI century... not the XIX thank you very much (same characters, different roman numerals)

So if it comes down to those choices, I guess I will just sit this one. I have better things to do with my time, than to wait in line to chose which part of a shit stinks less... I have some nice books I would like to catch up with, and election day is usually rainy season over here. Some nice jazz, a warm cozy log in the fireplace, and a good book will be the best way to prelude the end of this republic. Which will be the most likely outcome if any of the above mentioned gets to be the only choices in the ballots. Of course, there could be a miracle and the Dems would get a clue and put someone who is not as awful and polarizing as Hillary, who knows maybe Edwards may get the nod (not ideal, but what can you do), who knows... it may be still worth the while of standing in the cold and rain....

I would love to have this country become a representative democracy, and have an actual party who represents my ideals and political thought. Alas, this country decided that only moderate-conservative or full blown conservative political discourse was tolerable or mainstream... so I am not holding my breath. Thankfully I have dual citizenship so I still get to vote in another system which has a breath of choice when it comes to fill out the ballots. No system/country is perfect and shit stinks everywhere, but at least there is something to be said about being able to vote your conscience and not by closing your nose trying to vote for the least bad of the shitty choices given.

Freddy Fender: Wasted Days and Wasted Nights -

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TUVgkXVDkBA

Bushbacker FirstEnergy, responsible for the near meltdown near Toledo in 2001 (fifty pound hole found corroded in the pressure vessel, interior stainless cladding blowing out of the hole like bubble gum), and for the East Coast power blackout of 2003 (because of saving money on cutting trees away from powerlines), has struck again:

AP
Nuclear Plant in Ohio Shut Down
Thursday November 29, 10:37 am ET

Water System Problem Forces Shutdown of Ohio Nuclear Plant

In other words, the plant crashed. Automated systems shut down the core. But it sounds like humans were involved, as if they were forced to shut it down. Nope, only the machine saved our asses.

NORTH PERRY, Ohio (AP) -- A water system problem caused an automatic shutdown of a nuclear power plant Wednesday, a spokeswoman for the plant said.

Not a coolant failure! "A water system problem."

The Perry Nuclear Power Plant, located alongside Lake Erie about 35 miles northeast of Cleveland, shut down about 7:30 a.m. when problems with the system that provides water to the reactor malfunctioned, said spokeswoman Jennifer Young.

Water level inside the reactor was adequately maintained, but the plant remained off-line Wednesday evening. A special inspection team from the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission will try to determine what caused the problem, Young said.

"Nuclear plants in general do shut down from time to time, but we have not seen this particular problem before," Young said.

The plant, owned by Akron-based FirstEnergy Corp., is safe and stable, she said.

Workers shut down the plant last December because of a fluctuation in the water system. However, an investigation later determined that the problem was caused by a leak in a system that runs air-operated valves.

The Nuclear Regulatory Commission, after conducting a special review of the plant, said in 2005 that it rated the plant safe but noted a string of problems and said it would continue heightened supervision.

http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/071129/oh_nuclear_plant_shutdown.html?.v=1

budda @ 3:

Damn, I can't believe how good Huckabee is doing in the polls. And he was by far the most Presidential at the debate last night. Of course we can find criticisms from everyone, but he seems moderate on social issues and just plain charming as hell.

Moderate on social issues? He illegally blocked all payment for abortions in Arkansas during his term of office.

Apparently you aren't a woman.

Well, thank God that Mr. Ralph Nader kept us from upgrading those noo-kewe-lar plants! Who knows how safe they might be by now?! Thanks Ralph!

Seriously, I'm starting to wonder if we can do any large scale projects properly in this country. At least in private enterprise, we know the answer is "Nope. Too greedy to be competent." Wonder how many astronauts they would have killed in the Apollo program if the Repubs had been able to farm it out to private contractors? As many as they could get away with, is the answer I guess.

Nuclear power stuck in the 70s.
Nasa cut back to a stub, Shuttles retiring WAY past due without a replacement.
Satellites being outsourced to other countries.
The failure of the Big Dig.
Decaying bridges and interstate infrastructure.
Still no large solar initiative, even though Jimmy Carter started one.
Katrina "rebuilding" (not to mention the trailers off-gassing formaldehyde!).
Private mercenary armies closing the window for stabilization in Iraq with their murdering.

I wouldn't mind a smaller government, but dammit I want EFFECTIVE government! The corporatism of this country has begin to strangle us all. Hell if they'd even NOTICED the internet before it became huge (that's that "series of tubes" for you Republicans) they'd have killed that too by chopping it up into segments and "privatizing" it to the Ma Bells, complete with tiers, taxes, and forced incompatibility.

Apparently the biggest thing we can do is the iPhone. Maybe Jobs should run... at least he gets the concept of "Big Brother" without saying, "Wow, what a cool idea!" He can balance his books too.

I'm not saying that it's something that you approve of, my friend. I'm just saying that it's something that you're stuck with, Mr. LA.

Pleeeeeaaaaasssseeee STOP referring to these cattle calls as debates, it only forwards the false meme that they are legitimate forums of discussion in order for the great unwashed to pick a candidate.......total nonsense!! When the League of Womens Voters ran the show, with an iron fist no less, it was REALLY a debate of great minds as opposed to a battle of the best fundraisers and those most adept with botox. I am from New Hampshire and I am voting for Dennis Kucinich......although, whoever comes out of the Iowa and NH race the winner my family will support wholeheartedly. Defeating the putrid, virulent, neo con evil is THE GOAL even with a flawed Democrat at the helm. Let us see now " blood diamonds or pearls of wis-dumb"........they treat us like morons because we ARE morons for buying their useless shit day after day after day after.............STOP the SHOPOCALYPSE!!

Proud American @ 13:

...
But it will backfire. The more effort to silence Kucinich; the more curious voter are to hear and learn of them.
...

I think you might be too optimistic about the number of curious voters out there. The lack of them is maybe the biggest problem with our democracy right now.

Bit NOLA @ 20:

An administration change is not going to derail where this country is headed.

I seriously think a Paul Presidency would bring this runaway train to a stop, and put it back on the right tracks. Folks might not agree with all his ideas, but thats what congress is for, and Dr. Paul will not hesitate to put all 3 branches back in order.

Please folks, watch and listen to Dr.Paul for yourselves, he's the real deal at the right time in history. Lets not blow this, its the last chance we have to save the republic for our children and grandchildren.

Daily Reading pt 1....

Global Warming: The Rich Opt Out - http://www.thenation.com/doc/20071210/howl
Noted with interest: the very rich people are indifferent to climate change, global warming and the exhaustion of natural resources. Kyoto? What’s that? The new report by the United Nations Inter-Governmental Panel on Climate Change? Never heard of it. The upcoming meeting of the world’s energy ministers in Bali? Makes no difference to me. Where’s my private jet? The rich have decided to opt out of global warming and its effects. That’s for the little people, as the following from the Wall Street Journal illustrates:
"The American Southeast has been suffering from one of its worst droughts in years. But you wouldn't know it from looking at the emerald-green estates of Palm Beach. Consider Nelson Peltz. The investor and food magnate's oceanfront estate, called Montsorrel, is among the island's biggest water consumers. His 13.8-acre spread, which combines two properties, used not quite 21 million gallons of water over the past 12 months--or about 57,000 gallons a day on average--at a cost of more than $50,000, according to records obtained from the local water utility.
The paper has calculated that the average little person's use is 54,000 gallons per year. Hence Peltz uses 352 times as many gallons of water as the wee people do. In Atlanta, where drought conditions are yet more critical than in Florida, there were reports of other richies sloshing in H&sub2;0 as ordinary people watched their gardens dry up. One man in Atlanta, living alone in his mansion, where there are seven bathrooms, was recorded as using sixty times more water than his neighbors--this in a city that could run out of drinking water in three or four months.
The authorities, ever deferential to those who have too much already, are not inclined to make an example of such people. Yet the rich are held up to us as having achieved that ever more hackneyed American Dream, as the people we ought to emulate. If it ends up that they are the only people who have drinking water, not to mention full swimming pools, we ought to emulate 'em, and after we have finished emulatin' 'em, somebody go fetch a rope. In any sane society Peltz would be charged a dollar for every gallon over 54,000, the average usage, which would work to a fine of more than $20 million.
With guys like Peltz, even that sum may not be enough to get him to turn off the tap when he's finished shaving. Apparently, without their say-so we are not to do much of anything to save ourselves. Not only do they control the government on these matters but every time a proposal is made, they say no, it's bad for the economy, and if you go ahead with it we'll take your jobs away. Great. If we try to protect ourselves, our livelihoods are gone; if we don't, our children's lives are gone.
As we ponder that predicament, the American Meteorological Society is having kittens over the new 2007 data on the arctic and Greenland ice and glacier melts. The new numbers are worse than the models predicted, and the climatologists would be in a state of shock if they were given to such reactions.
Exposing the right wingnuts Gods for what they are....the destroyers of worlds (yes...their greed & indifference is worse than what Oppenheimer did....what his will do takes a lot of time & effort, what they are doing takes nothing...)

Study: One-quarter of U.S. bird species at risk - http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/environment/2007-11-28-birdlist_N.ht...
Its not natural selection idiot gw deniers...this is manmade extinction
This is one planet, we can't remake it and once the ice is gone, water is next...WTFU

12 States Sue EPA for Data on Toxins - http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iI6WCIUJC9CzKJipu82D45JlqJvAD8T6UEFG0
Yet another Bush crime family gift to corporatists who wish to kill the 'little people' because properly disposing of lethal chemicals is just too damn expensive...

Friends and Enemies of the Constitution - http://www.populistamerica.com/friends_and_enemies_of_the_constitution

Intercepted CIA memo on attacking democracy in Venezuela - http://professorsmartass.blogspot.com/2007/11/intercepted-cia-memo-on-at...
The Bush crime family is backing another attempt to overthrow the democratically elected government of Venezuela. Meanwhile, our ally Saudi Arabia, is giving a gang rape victim 200 lashes for being in the company of men. There is no election of the Saudi royal family, recall, or referendum on their power, but the CIA isn't trying to remove them because big oil thinks they've already got the best deal they can get there.

Daily Reading pt 3...

Trump Gets Dumped in Scotland - http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1875962007
His mega-resort, worthless waste of resources shot down by conservationists

Giuliani's Mistress Used N.Y. Police as Taxi Service - http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/giulianis-mistr.html

Rudy G. Plants a Questioner at Events - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/2007/11/27/2007-11-27_volunteer...

Rudy Giuliani is the BuzzFlash GOP Hypocrite of the Week for Having Taxpayers Pay for Southampton Trysts with His Mistress, Now His Third Wife, While He Was Cheating on His Second Wife, Then Pledging Not to Raise Taxes on the YouTube Debate.
- http://gophypocrites.com/2007/11/hyp07048.html

For when Giuliani distances himself from Kerik: BuzzFlash Caption This Challenge: Rudy G. and Bernie K. Share a Romantic Moment - http://www.buzzflash.com/articles/node/3819

Ron @ 18: "The enchanted is out of his mind. If you vote third party you help a republican to win. Let’s take the whitehouse and the congress and then fix the party. There is no rest for the righteous."

The party could be fixed NOW if you people would vote for the ONLY candidate that stands for democratic principles: Kucinich. Hiliary is a corporate whore, Obama and the rest of them as well. They're all some-what watered down republicans. But they still don't speak to you and I. There are only 2 choices in this race, Kucinich or some version of republican. Everyone else in the "democratic" field falls into the last catagory. The corporations own your ass.

This is long, but entertaining (I hope):

PUBLISHED ON NOVEMBER 29, 2007:
Voting Counts
Democrats' accusations of security breaches by the Pima County Elections Division go to trial next week
By DAVE DEVINE

Tricia McInroy
Pima County Administrator Chuck Huckelberry.

At a trial beginning Tuesday, Dec. 4, attorney Bill Risner is expected to paint an extremely unflattering portrait of internal security within [Tucson, AZ] Pima County's Elections Division.

Risner--representing the local Democratic Party--hopes to secure outside oversight of vote-counting procedures, and is asking Judge Michael Miller to order the county to provide copies of its election databases to all major political parties.

Citing a prohibition on pretrial publicity, Pima County attorneys declined to discuss the case in detail. But Chris Straub, of the County Attorney's Office, did say: "We believe the (databases) are confidential."

Risner counters: "The election computer is fraught with security problems and can easily be rigged or manipulated by insiders."

To substantiate that charge, Risner has assembled a lot of ammunition. Perhaps the most startling accusation is that

Elections Division computer and networking specialist Bryan Crane has, for years, been taking backup tapes of ongoing vote-counting home with him.

Gee. Is that a problem?

In a deposition, Robert Evans, who worked under Crane for four years, recalled him taking home the backup tapes "every election." Longtime Elections Division employee Isabel Araiza concurred in a sworn statement.

Risner says this practice is fraught with problems which could affect an election: "With Microsoft Access, you can make any changes you want on the data at home ... and then reinsert the data into the computer." Risner adds that there are technical ways to cover tracks.

Araiza states in her deposition that Crane told people he took the backup tapes home because "if the building goes up in smoke, you know, I've got the backups."

And if the vote doesn't go our way, that would be bad.

Crane, like several other Pima County employees, didn't return a phone call seeking his side of the story. Risner says Crane, in a deposition, recounted that he only took home office correspondence.

Hello, Grand Jury!

Risner points out that a fireproof safe has been in the Elections Division since 1999.

Uh, would that work?

According to Tucson City Clerk Kathy Detrick, municipal government keeps its backup election tapes in a safe at City Hall.

How quaint.

Informed during his deposition of Crane's alleged practice, Pima County administrator Chuck Huckelberry said he wasn't aware of it. Huckelberry, who directly oversees the Elections Division, suggested: "Ultimately, this whole system relies on trusting individuals,"

That's odd. California thinks you have to have at least two people present at all times. Wouldn't that be better?

and Huckelberry said he thinks Crane is very trustworthy.

So don't you worry your pretty little head. That white boy is a g'un.

[Huckelberry is of course the educated version of 2008 Republican Candidate (H)uckabee's name.]

Huckelberry also considers Pima County Elections Director Brad Nelson to be trustworthy. But according to Araiza, after he first came on the job in 2002, she talked with Nelson about her concerns with Crane's backup-tape procedure, but "the practice was left."

Nelson and Crane play major roles in the second of Risner's vote-counting security issues, involving the preparation of so-called "summary reports," or tabulations of voting results which begin several days before an election (with early-ballot results) and continue until after polls close.

Crane has admitted printing these reports on a regular basis for eight years, but said he did so only as a check to see how many votes had been cast. (See "Electoral Integrity," June 14.) While another method of accomplishing that same task exists which doesn't reveal the election results, Crane used the summary reports instead.

Gee, that's illegal in California and many other states. Didn't you know that?

Earlier this year, Crane's use of summary reports was part of Risner's allegation that the 2006 Regional Transportation Authority election had been "flipped."

The Arizona Attorney General's office investigated and decided that didn't happen.

Naw, those white boys are g'uns.

But Attorney General Terry Goddard also concluded: "It is illegal to share any results from an election prior to the close of voting."

During one of his depositions in the current lawsuit, Crane claimed he shredded the summary reports and did not share the information. Plus, when specifically asked if he ever released the results of an election to anyone prior to the close of polls, he replied, "No."

But Evans tells a much different story. He says it was common practice for Nelson to get summary reports and leave the computer counting room with them.

Ah, just taking my printouts for a walk. I'll be right back. Oh, Joe -- do you know if Jim's fax machine is still on?

Evans also states that on several occasions, Oro Valley Town Clerk Kathy Cuvelier asked to see summary reports on Election Day before the polls closed--and Crane provided them.

"She wanted to know how the election was going," Evans says of Cuvelier.

She's a g'un.

On one occasion when he was in charge of vote counting, Evans recalls refusing to print a summary report for Cuvelier, because "it just didn't look proper to me." According to Evans, Cuvelier asked Nelson to intervene, which he did, but Evans continued to object, so Nelson relented.

Cuvelier also didn't respond to a phone call seeking a comment, but Risner says that in her deposition, she claims her request to see the summary report came after the polls closed. He also said Nelson didn't recall the incident with Evans.

The practice of printing summary reports before polls close has now been stopped. In addition, numerous physical changes have been implemented to the vote-counting computer room, and in September, Nelson issued a security plan for his office.

Outside of the attorney general's investigation--which Risner calls a "whitewash"--no performance audit of the past practices of the Elections Division has been conducted.

The Arizona Secretary of State's office, which ignored three phone calls from the Weekly, has conducted no investigation.

Oh, that's OK, she's must be a g'un. Who is she, anyhow?

"Janice K. Brewer was elected Arizona Secretary of State on November 5, 2002. She was sworn into office on January 6, 2003."

She was the Arizona Republican Senate Majority Whip from 1993 to 1996.

So--not a partisan. Reassuring, eh?

Next week's trial, however, could provide part of an external review.

For their part, Pima County officials have outlined numerous security and other reasons why they believe the election databases shouldn't be turned over to political parties.

Straub, from the Pima County Attorney's Office states: "There are three issues. First, are databases public record? Second, if they are, do state statutes make them confidential? Finally, if not, is it a good idea to release them?"

Risner says: "An accurate counting of votes is the bedrock of democracy." Because of that, Risner says, "(The Democratic Party) is interested in a system that doesn't rely on trust and character.

Well, finally a joke for Republicans.

Too bad the courts are open, eh?*

... If we prevail, it will make it more difficult for insiders to cheat in the future, because they'll have to worry about us catching them."

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/gbase/Currents/Content?oid=oid:103686

*If they're going to start catching criminals again, they better see if it's OK yet.

I will be voting for the best candidate, and that is Dennis Kucinich.
I don't care who tells me he can't win.
He can win if people get the message of where he stands on the issues.

And even if he doesn't win, the more votes he gets the more people will look at that message. America needs the changes that Kucinich champions.

We all need to do our part to get that message out to the people.

Kucinich 08 - Americas hope

budda @ 3:

Damn, I can't believe how good Huckabee is doing in the polls. And he was by far the most Presidential at the debate last night. Of course we can find criticisms from everyone, but he seems moderate on social issues and just plain charming as hell. If we do pick Hillary then I would hope Huckabee gets the nomination and beats her because he would atleast be a tolerable Republican. He's what Bush pretended to be - he's a compassionate conservative. And it's great to see someone pick up on Buchanan's mix of economic populism with other conservative causes.

And its funny that even the blogs have little to attack Huckabee on. Yea, maybe he had a few bad dealing as governor, but goddamn look at the history of disgusting corruption Hillary has shown.

Huckabee at least gives me some hope that Hillary won't win the general and the republican nominee will be tolerable. And don't that this post too serious as I may just be yet another person (and it's all over the press and blogs) blinded by Huckabee's charm. That man is one hell of a salesman.

She will trounch him like a bug under a freight train. Good for her.

Huckabee will continue to stack the federal courts and he will continue to make our judicial system a kangaroo court. Any conservative will do that.

Justin Case @ 78:

Bit NOLA @ 20:

An administration change is not going to derail where this country is headed.

I seriously think a Paul Presidency would bring this runaway train to a stop, and put it back on the right tracks. Folks might not agree with all his ideas, but thats what congress is for, and Dr. Paul will not hesitate to put all 3 branches back in order.

Please folks, watch and listen to Dr.Paul for yourselves, he's the real deal at the right time in history. Lets not blow this, its the last chance we have to save the republic for our children and grandchildren.

What utter and complete tortured logic - rationalizing away the insane views of a candidate by saying that those views will be checked because, "that's what congress if for." Just like congress checked bush, right?

You don't ignore the insane ideology of a candidate by saying that congress will check him. You simply don't vote for them.

And "Dr. Paul" is not the only candidate up there who happens to be a "doctor." Geezus. You're so smitten with the guy that I fully expect you'd want to have his baby if that were possible. Get a grip!

tyree @ 12:

if i cant have kucinich i may settle for edwards , at this point anyway,

You may be correct. I'm still going with Kucinich but I want to see who the third party candidates are and what their stand on the issues are. I won't vote for a Democrat just to beat a republic; they're not that different. Edwards is a good choice that I could vote for but it really would entail knowing who he would choose for a VP.

As for my comment about whether or not my state does primaries - don't think I'm dumb - they keep changing the rules. I'll get a mail in ballot if they do so I won't miss my chance!

I love seeing all these pro-Dennis comments!! It's awesome that folks are listening to him and hearing what he has to say. He IS the only one with the guts to take on the big corporations and fight for the average person... you and me.

Dennis in '08
would be just great!

Proud American @ 56:

A Kucinich Presidency will mean REAL ACCOUNTABILITY.
A Kucinich Presidency will mean exercising IMPEACHMENT, INDICTMENT and IMPRISONMENT.
A Kucinich Presidency will mean restoring the RULE OF LAWS and ENFORCING the U.S. Constitution.

A Kucinich Presidency will mean an END TO CORPORATE controlled and OWNED GOVERNMENT.
A KUCINICH PRESIDENCY will mean RESTORING REAL DEMOCRACY in United STATES.
A KUCINICH PRESIDENCY mean holding WAR CRIMINALS to justice.

A Kucinich Presidency means ENDING government give-aways to corporate interest.
A Kucinich Presidency means NEVER having to worry whether YOU will be denied medical care.
A Kucinich Presidency means every single child in United States will have healthcare and education; whether CORPORATION like it or NOT.
A Kucinich Presidency means LIFE; LIBERTY; and JUSTICE for ALL.

AND THAT MY FELLOW AMERICAN is why HE IS A THREAT to the BIG MACHINES.

WE THE PEOPLE and the WORLD IS READY FOR CHANGE................AND THAT CHANGE is SYNONOMOUS to DENNIS KUCINICH PRESIDENCY.

Right On !! And ALL THAT, my friend, is why DK will not survive to become president...or will be cut down within weeks of assuming office. Go ahead, say it ain't so, friends.

tyree @ 12:

if i cant have kucinich i may settle for edwards , at this point anyway,

Who says we can't? Your the voter!

I'm a Hilary man! Kucinich is waking me up. So let's do it!

This is nonsense.

All of the tier 2 and tier 3 candidates got PLENTY of time. In fact, they should probably get less time.

If Kucinich had a shot in hell, he WOULD get more time, but because he doesn't, he shouldn't.

It's the exact same argument the insane supporters of Mike Gravel make.

Every second wasted listening to Joe Biden talk is a second the public could learn more about one of the REAL candidates. Same goes for the other 3-4 who shouldn't be up there.

Until we can widdle this down to a couple real candidates, there will be no real debates, just these crazy 9 idiots all talking for 30 seconds events.

chris @ 99:

Dennis is a Commie wanna be anyway. I love the way the libs blame big corp for everything, blame anyone but yourself, the dem way!! Dennis needs an education in realpolitik

"Commie" That is sooooo 1950s man, get on with the program, the favourite for you right wingers when it comes to non sequitur slander is "islamofascist"

Since, he was a major, and has been a congressman for a while. I am sure that Dennis knows more about "realpolitiks" than you. After all, a long and illustrious career as a the secretary of your trailer owners association hardly requires that much in the way of political acumen...

Chris May @ 106:

This is nonsense.

All of the tier 2 and tier 3 candidates got PLENTY of time. In fact, they should probably get less time.

If Kucinich had a shot in hell, he WOULD get more time, but because he doesn't, he shouldn't.

It's the exact same argument the insane supporters of Mike Gravel make.

Every second wasted listening to Joe Biden talk is a second the public could learn more about one of the REAL candidates. Same goes for the other 3-4 who shouldn't be up there.

Until we can widdle this down to a couple real candidates, there will be no real debates, just these crazy 9 idiots all talking for 30 seconds events.

What an insanely stupid thing to say. You know, they have a name for the type of government where your choices are limited to two of the same ideologies. It's not democracy though.

@SicofFknLiars

Wow you came up with all of that all by yourself?

I know a lot of folks on this blog are 'Crazy for Kucinich', and he is kinda cute, but in our society, where 'Image is Everything', he looks more like a watch fob than a presidential candidate.

I just love having my posts deleted - thanks a lot C&L crew.

All of you who say Ron Paul is the same as the other neo-cons he's running against, or that he doesn't under finance, or that he's against health care, or you can't vote for him because he's not in your party - you simply don't have your facts straight. I wish people would think and read before they open their mouths - but it's a free country (for now), so do as you will.

I have always been a Democrat all my life, and the only Democrat I want to see in office is DK. But Pauls values are so strong, I feel it would be a mistake to ignore him. I'm so bleeding sick of people with their horse blinders on saying "I can't vote for fill_in_the_blank because he's not in my party. Who says you can only choose from one party, or that just because the candidate is in your party - makes him/her the right choice. This is the 21st century people, you have and unlimited amount of choices - start making them yourself or other people will gladly make them for you.

Look at Ghoolliani, he has more liberal views than conservative and runs as a Rupublican, but you would have to have brain damage to vote for him because of what he really is, not what he says he is (a low down corrupt dirty piece of shit).

I believe the only candidates that actually give a shit about the people of this country are DK and RP. The rest are bought and paid for. NOBODY and I do mean NOBODY has such a consistent constitutional stance on EVERY topic as Ron Paul. I have never voted Republican before, but RP's message hits so close to home, more than any other, I find it hard to see why anybody would vote for anyone else - but it's a free country (for now), so do as you will.

I used to have blind faith in the Dems, but times have changed, parties have changed. When the Dems got a hold of congress with all their big speak about how they where going to set things straight - I was tickled with joy. But actions speak louder than words - and their actions say "where really no different and were after the same things" because not a damn thing was done to bring this corrupt administration to justice. I have no blind faith left, I want good solid credible information. If a candidate can't give that to me - they don't get my vote. Which is why I'm torn between two people only - Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich. Which is why I would love to see them run together. And btw, RP never said he would take a VP position, he said it would be unlikely that he would be offered one because the rest of the people in his party hate him. Which is why I love him :)

Dennis Kucinich / Ron Paul 08!

It's time to make a serious change for the better.