Breaking-- Harry Reid is Telecom Immunity's BFF? UPDATED
By bluegal Thursday Dec 13, 2007 5:03pm
Harry Reid mentions the blogs at around the 1:39 mark. Yes, Senator, we're paying attention...
Why am I always saying "you've gotta be kidding me?" every time the "Democratic" "Majority" "Leader" takes a step?
Seriously, think about those three words and how completely meaningless each one of them is with this Congress.
Glenn Greenwald has the details,
The summarized version is that there were two competing bills which Reid could have brought to the floor -- the Senate Intelligence Committee version engineered by Jay Rockefeller and Dick Cheney which gives the administration most of what it wants, and the Senate Judiciary Committee, which does not contain telecom amnesty and contains far more extensive oversight protections. Reid could have brought the bill to the floor using whatever process he wanted, and he has decided -- contrary to weeks of assurances -- that the SIC bill will serve as the "base" bill, meaning that improving it (by removing amnesty and increasing oversight) will require 60 votes, rendering such efforts virtually impossible. In doing so, Reid is brazenly ignoring the demands of 14 Senators -- including all of the Democratic presidential candidates -- to have the Judiciary Committee bill be the base bill.
and Glenn sums it up this way...
The criticism isn't that Harry Reid is being insufficiently aggressive in opposing the White House. It's that he's doing what he can to support the White House, serving as their key ally. Read more...
As usual, we can also count on FireDogLake to keep us all up-to-date.
And if being "Democratic" "majority" "leader" is too much for Mr. Reid, maybe we can find another Senator. Just saying....
Oh and if you'd like to give Senator Reid a call (remember to be on-topic and respectful), his numbers are here (thanks, FDL).
UPDATE: Dodd will filibuster.
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1mpeach! Start w/ Pelosi and Reid.
This is pathetic!
This "Democratic" congress has been a huge disappointment...
What does BFF stand for please? I always thought it was "bush family friend", though in this context that doesn't make sense.
Best Friend Forever - BG
It brings tears of rage to my face...I have had it with these cowards.
lobbyists are always leaving money on the leadership's dresser
Vote Dennis Kucinich for President and stop letting these wishy washy republicrats into office!!!
Russ Mason UK @ 3:
Best Friend Forever
BFF Best Friend Forever. You welcome, Russ
Doh!!! Late again.
What do I want?
DEMOCRACY!
When do I want it?
NOVEMBER OF 2006!
Isn't it time for Americans to quit being respectful to these corrupt, unapologetic, incompetent morons? Just asking.
It's funny but Harry Reid didn't seem this stupid last year or even earlier this year. What the hell has gotten over him? I have 3 theories. One, the Democratic caucus has a grand master plan in which Harry plays bad cop (aka- bush cop) so as to present the appearance of trying to work with BushCo while other members valiantly stand up against it. Two, he's being blackmailed by BushCo and has no choice. Three, he's been having tea with that party traitor Lieberman. I'm hoping my first theory is right, but I'm not counting on it either.
Hey, Harry! If, as you so many times whined, you have your "hands full" you better check that it isn't a turd, 'cause it sure ain't yer balls --you don't have any!
Thanks for the replies. Just one more please - I think it's IOKIYAR, or something like that!
Ha. That's from Atrios-- It's Okay If You're A Republican - Sitemonitor
Fuck you, Harry Reid, you heartless mother-fucking son of a bitch. FUCK YOU!!!! AND YOUR LITTLE DOG, TOO!!!
Dodd was gonna filibuster Mukasey too. Reid simply told him one thing and did another - bringing the nomination to a vote when the candidates were out of town. There still weren't enough votes to break a filibuster (only 53 votes for Mukasey) - but not one Democratic Senator had the balls to say nay when Reid asked for unanimous consent to end debate.
So don't get your hopes up here. The only thing we can count on "our" Democratic congress for is disappointment.
I'm half tempted to move to NV just to support a REAL Democrat against this guy in the primaries. There's no logical reason for this. Except one. Somebody owns him.
TimV @ 12:
Door # 2. Blackmail.
Its the Shumer reelection strategy to cave on everything then run against it like Iraq.
He was dead wrong on the new AG too.
Pathetic.
Jo @ 18:
Yeah.. that's been one of my long running conspiracy theories as to how BushCo get's all these people to bow down to them. I'm guessing it's linked to the wiretapping scandal, but then again... I wear a tin-foil hat...
I have been calling for Reid's ouster as Dem Leader since before Dems were in the majority. He is tool for special interests and Republicans, and an embarrassment as leader.
And simultaneously I have been wishing for Russ Feingold to be promoted to leader. I truly appreciate your putting forth the same idea. I got laughed at a lot for it a year ago.
Seriously...many of us have been advocating impeachment for Bush and/or Cheney. Maybe we should start being more attentive to cleaning our own house. Can you imagine what we might have achieved over the past year if we had effective, committed and honest leaders? DAMN, the lost opportunity is so f*ing frustrating.
...and to hell with being civil dealing with these goddamned traitors to the American people and to the Democratic Party. Fuck them all!!!! I've said it before, and I will say it again: there is no difference between a complicit Democratic majority and a complicit Rethug majority. We are STILL in Iraq and Bush STILL gets everything he wants. Harry Reid needs to have his balls barbecued. No more fucking civility! BTW, as long as Reid and Bushco want retroactive immunity for the telecoms, I want retroactive immunity for murder, blackmail, prostitution and drug possession. And isn't giving retroactive immunity for a crime unconstitutional? I thought Congress was forbidden from passing laws that retroactively pardon a crime.
2 sides of the same coin.
Are you getting tired of being played like this yet?
Bought and paid for. I wonder how much it costs to buy a majority leader these days. I guess I should ask the big telecoms what they paid. I still have some Christmas shopping to do. He'd be a nice stocking stuffer for any family or friends who need a big favor.
What.the.hell.
RIP America
I've said it before:
Why exactly did we fight to vote these people in?
Dom @ 22:
Unconstitutional? The Constitution has been scrapped, shredded and rulled null and void.
Jo @ 18:
If Harry pulls this kinda Bushit ? I say F@CK the Democratic Party !
As the Senate debates the renewal of FISA revisions made in August, President Bush and his Republican allies in Congress are endorsing a unique double-standard when it comes to immunity for telecommunications firms. Within the United States, they argue, service providers such as AT&T and Verizon must cooperate with U.S. government demands for access to Americans' electronic communications and should be immune from citizens' lawsuits. But in China and elsewhere, as Republican reaction to the Yahoo saga suggests, not so much.
For the details, see:
"FISA, Yahoo and the GOP Double-Standard on Telecom Immunity."
TimV @ 12:
I pick "Two." I think this is what the wire tapping is all about.
Finland, here I come!
Don't worry, my neither Republican or Democrat.
I have to say, I can't stand Dennis Miller, and hate to watch anything he has to say, but on this RARE occassion I found myself agreeing with him (on Harry Reid):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miXAZj-tcGI&feature=related
If it's blackmail, is it something like Nancy Pelosi's knowledge that the Bush administration was conducting torture and said nothing, made no protest, let it continue, and so "took impeachment off the table"? THAT cat's out of the bag, but I really do wonder what the Democrats are hiding that they could be blackmailed about? Could it be that as a body they haven't functioned as an opposition party at all?
I'd call my senators and ask them to support the filibuster, but they're both repig political hacks (Hutchison and Cornyn.) However, Cornyn is up for re-election next year, so I'll be going hellbent for leather to get him out of office. Vote Rick Noriega!
I like Reid as a senator but he is not up for the job as leader. He needs to step aside.
I respect his attempts at reaching out and compromising, but he seems to be totally unaware that the minority is not after a compromise. They want total surrender. He needs to realize he is peeing into the wind.
We need leaders that will lead, not bend over.
I don't want a republican majority again (at least not these republicans) but I swear if we had 99 democratic party senators they would still give in to the demands of the one republican.
Finland, here I come!
Don’t worry, I'm neither Repubelican or Dumocrat.
MOTHER FUCKER!!!
An American @ 37:
Finland? You can't come up with a better place than Finland?
BLACKMAIL
He's trying not to fall into the same fate as Don Siegelman.
Robert Wexler was on Randi's radio show today he has a web site wexlerwantshearings.com
please check out & sign up we can & will impeach the vp, on to Bush.
BLACKMAIL @ 40:
Or worse.
I've had it with both Reid and Pelosi.
We have trash in the senate an trash in the congress.
Throw the bums out.
*
xoites defends Constitution @ 39:
Great quality of life, best educational system in the world, one of the lowest crime rates, and beautiful women as far as the eye can see. If you don't mind the cold, the weird language, and enjoy the occasional reindeer sled trip... Finland sounds like a great place to be. Much welcoming that most northern states of this union if you ask me...
Russ Mason UK @ 14:
Its OK If You're A Republican
Dom @ 15:
Don't forget "the horse he rode in on". ;)
The Dude @ 44:
xoites defends Constitution @ 39:
Hey, Finland ranks #1 for quality of life in the world in 2007.
Why not Finland?
when are you going to wake up and realize that these idiots are colluding with Bush?
people...take back your country
before there's nothing left.
God in heaven, deliver us from these Democrats in Congress. It's looking more obvious all the time that they're in cahoots with BushCo. You just have to wonder what people like Reid, Pelosi, Schumer, and Feinstein, to name a few, are thinking. But then, these are probably part of the 13 who voted to impeach Clinton.
Looking in from the UK i think you guys should vote for ron paul, the neo-cons hate him and he's more anti war than the democrats.
Russ Mason UK @ 3:
Best Friend Forever, text messaging language.
xoites defends Constitution @ 39:
Ok, Iceland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland
Symes @ 48:
I really don't know too much about it except it is cold. I also saw a 60 Minutes piece about it years ago that depicted the relationships between men and women as rather odd. They did not socialize except at dance halls where they danced the Tango but even then never spoke. This was their mating ritual and out of this came marriages.
Ok, ok, it is only 60 Minutes and i am certain they could have been wrong and things change but it stuck with me.
An American @ 53:
Much better choice from what i hear.
Glenn Greenwald also asks that you call the Democratic Senatorial Presidential Candidates (Biden, Clinton, and Obama) and tell them to support Dodd's hold/filibuster.
The toll free number is:
1-800-828-0498
Ask the operator to connect you with the correct office. Since its after hours leave a message on their voicemail.
TimV @ 12:
It looks like the repugs are blackmailing everyone in Congress. I doubt the American people care about their foibles if they would only stand up to the Chimperator. I think it isn't blackmail. The Dems just want the booty of a dictatorship.
J.C. @ 24:
The only think that could ever save this country would be if we outlawed lobbyist, but that will never happen because they've all bribed Congress.
what a load of shit!!!
& these people have the nerve to ask for money?!?!?!?!
The War party wins again. Bush and Reid say "wiretaps do not require a court order...because we value the Contribution"
Impeach and elect Green party.
http://gp.org
I Am A Banana @ 27:
I'm sure they figure Americans don't have any other choice but to vote for them, and the sad thing is that they're right.
The top ten list of most searched candidates according to Google is as follows:
ron paul
fred thompson
hillary clinton
barack obama
john edwards
mitt romney
john mccain
joe biden
bill richardson
rudy giuliani
Ron Paul is at a tipping point, now is the time to get behind the ron paul revolution, voting for a democrat or any of the other republican candidates is moot, they're all the same, IE Democrats win the both houses running on a anti wars stance and what happens ? THERE IS A TROOP SURGE, i mean ffs they've betrayed you, this man is the only candidate, bar Kucinich who would bring the troops home imedieitly.
Hillary is a establishment whore, Obama is an AIPAC lacky.
The Dude @ 44:
Obamas AIPACX speech-
http://www.scribd.com/doc/46712/Obama-AIPAC-Speech
rasta @ 49:
We learned this week Pelosi's obedience was due to the fact she was exposed to crimes of torture. And by holding the administration accountable she'd only be indicting herself. So she conveniently took impeachment off the table. God only knows how they roped in Harry Reid. It must be something equally monstrous.
Its now beyond obvious that a grave deadly evil has taken over the leadership of the Democratic party. What do we do about it?
"Will you fight for what you believe,
Will you take only what you need,
Will you bite the hand that feeds."
kaT @ 59:
That's exactly the reason why I've written off the Democratic party as a whole. They had their chance last year and friggin' blew it.
Its now beyond obvious that a grave deadly evil has taken over the leadership of the Democratic party. What do we do about it?
By states taking back power, which is being discussed now for many reasons.
Elect Progressive governors and state reps.
Then dig in for a long revolution.
And the RP bots getting encouragement from an earlier thread make it over here as well.
Predictable.
RP is a loon, a Libertarian and will support deregulation like you've never seen before.
We all know how well deregulation works, don't we?
If you like corporate rule, RP is your man.
AMENDMENT XIV
Passed by Congress June 13, 1866. Ratified July 9, 1868.
Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
We, the voters and constituents, have been played for fools. I hope the money they - Reid,Pelosi,Rahm - are getting for betraying their party is a bundle.
*ducks in case Paul in LA is here
Look, this country has a depression coming that will make the "Great Depression" look like a walk in the park. We are not making things anymore. There are no jobs for regular folk - people who don't fall for that "ya gotta have a college edecation" line and end up paupers trying to pay back school loans. I think this congress knows whats coming. They are playing games with us. Politics ain't gonna put the bacon on the table for the vast majority of us. But we don't count anyway because we can't give small fortunes to own a politician. Those people will be in clover. They are draining the blood and treasure. They are skimming the cream from the top. And congress is aiding and abetting the process. Both sides. And, face it, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Refuse to pay taxes? Jail. March in the streets? Beaten and jailed.
Watching this country die is like watching my mother die a long slow and painful death.
So there is no such thing as a "civil servant". Reid is not willing to stand up for billions of people. It's CYA all the way and screw the rest of you.
Reid will never grow a spine, he doesn't want to.
Senate Democrats only have one thing to do, and that's to remove Reid from his Leadership position. Reid's capitulation has gone on long enough.
An American @ 52:
Or the Faroe Islands. Goolge about their greenroofs, and marvel at the beauty of the place. (Danish also) Or just click this (Google images):
http://images.google.ca/images?hl=en&q=faroe+islands&btnG=Search+Images&...
What dirt does the GOP have on Reid? Must be good....
abarts @ 71:
Won't be long now, that fan boy can't help himself when his gang gets the beating they deserve.
Symes @ 77:
Interesting that Pelosi has a son named "Paul".
.
Does Sen Reid think WARRANTLESS is somehow... LEGAL?
.
From Greenwald's article:
I have to agree. I thought the whole point of trying to hold onto the majority was so that the leadership could control the agenda and not screw democratic senators. If they pass telecom immunity, I'm checking out for a while.
ASS MONKEY$!!
Okay, this conundrum again: what do good progressives who want to participate in democracy do now?
I'm in the "fuck 'em until they start doing right" camp. Others, like Paul in LA, are in the "the leadership is screwed up but bolting the party is self-defeating camp."
Follow me, and more Republicans will get elected than otherwise. Follow Paul, and the current strategy implemented by the Democratic party leadership will be validated and we'll get more of the same.
Neither of us is providing anyone with any real answers. It's either impotent rage or impotent submission.
The hopeful element in the "fuck 'em" approach is that the Democrats will suffer defeats, change their leadership and come around.
The hopeful element in "don't shoot yourself in the foot" approach is that the Democrats are just in a bind now but given more power, especially the presidency, their better instincts will take over and we'll get the results we want.
But I don't think much of either of these hopes.
I have no doubt that the Democrats will rethink themselves if they lose a significant portion of the base, but I have no desire to live under further Resmuglican hegemony.
I have no doubt that the Democrats would be doing a much better job without Republican obstructionism, but I have no desire to listen to the DLC say "see, we were right to capitulate to all that bullying."
The ultimate thing for me is that I am persuaded that the Democratic party as a whole is in manifest dereliction of duty. I simply will not support any organization that wipes its ass with the constitution and I don't care how bad their opponents are.
But that's my privilege. It backs only a single vote, which I get to cast any way I want without anyone saying fucking boo about it. So fuck you if you think I owe you a Democratic vote. I don't. I don't owe my vote to anyone.
But I also see that that's no way to run a whole railroad.
So, what do we do now? So far, the choices are to abandon the Democrats forever and give the Republicans their greatest dream or validate the current leadership.
Surely, there must be a third way. But I'm fucking fresh out of ideas.
So I'm voting Green for a while until someone comes up with an answer.
Old Billy @ 80:
Unfortunately, they don't seem to care if you "check out". Democratic base? They don't need no stinkin' base!
JasonS @ 82:
I'm right there with you. I just can't believe that otherwise rational people are so unwilling to do what is right. They were elected to oppose the republican agenda and they are implementing it.
By the way, I liked your post in the christianity thread - the Steve King thing.
First we have Pelosi finally realizing that Republicans like this war, putting her 4 years behind anyone with a functioning frontal lobe and now this. It's time for a second party in this country. Less loyal, more opposition.
Old Billy @ 84:
Many thanks.
Old Billy @ 84:
Yup, vote your conscience.
But make damned well sure you know exactly what you are voting for, so many RP fan boys our here have no clue and would jump in bed with the Devil himself so long as it ends the war.
Harry and Nancy thank you, I finally get it. Bush and his crime family would had never had the temerity to do all the shit that they have done without knowing you were two of their whores. At least the Republicans showed us their true colors. You and your other archdemocrats have been cheating on this party all this time. If you two cocksucking three dollar sluts are democrats, I'll never call myself or vote for a democrat again. I will stay home, I swear. I'd rather allow this country to go to hell than help your sorry traitorous asses.
moondancer @ 4:
Me too... this is very very pathetic
Greens preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution.
While Republicans-Democrats support the Contribution.
Vote Green to save the earth and our democracy. http://gp.org
Time for a new Majority Leader. This is bullshit.
Dodd, make that filibuster stick.
Symes @ 87:
That's just the problem: I don't know what my conscience IS at this point.
It's not like I'm particularly enamored of the Greens. I support Green candidates when either a) they have a strong cause or b) the Democratic candidate is clearly a crook and/or liar.
This time, it's just about punishing the Democrats. I don't like voting purely negatively.
And though I disagree with Paul's formulation that everything is caucus, caucus, caucus, I also recognize that in the normal run of things, he's right: what matters is how those you elect work together to implement a collective vision. Caucuses also help you balance your own priorities, because the reality of politics is that you have to horse trade.
But in our current situation, I can't countenance any power gamesmanship because it all seems to be in the service of doing the wrong thing. Every ounce of support we give seems to go into implementing the Republican agenda.
So I'm angry, and angry decisions are usually bad ones. But I don't see that anything but anger could possibly be moral.
So I'm stuck.
JasonS @ 91:
Me too, me too. :(
Swashbuckler @ 2:
Seriously now, what did you expect?
Dick Durbin for Majority Leader! It's the only solution and we won't forget.
one rule for a populist political party is no candidates with net assets above 2 million.
unless they live it, they wont vote it
Does anyone want to go back and check the record of the Republican Congress when they took control in 1994 under a Democratic President? Did the Congress roll over and give Clinton everything he asked for? Somehow I doubt it. And Clinton had a higher approval rating than George W. Bush. Reid and Pelosi have proved to be the most ineffectual leaders of Congress in many years. They must think they can take the Democratic base for granted. Perhaps voters should look for Democrats who will act and vote like real Democrats.
You know, that might be the answer.
Vote in the Dem that we are forced to choose from as Prez, but clean sweep the Dems out of their incumbencies and replace them with real progressives in one fell swoop. Take both houses with new people and send a message to the new Prez that he/she had better listen to us already.
Might shake them out of their complacency?
I'm not seeing much else available to us.
What a complete, f***ing tool.
"You see, the really interesting thing here is, and I'm sure that when I say 'interesting,' you understand that I mean that it is intriguing and the like, I mean, I just feel terrible that I have to stab all of my loyal supporters, folks with a lot of opinions and ideas about the way things should be, and don't get me wrong, that's great, out there in the back, again. And I just feel terrible about that."
F**k you, Reid. That's MY freedom you're flushing.
I cannot believe that the Dems are caving (again!) on this issue...on ALL the issues that matter.
Is there no one in DC with an ounce of integrity? Seems the answer is obvious.
Let the Chimp break the law, ignore the Constitution (again!), have the telecoms conspire to aide in that crime, THEN have the Dems give them retroactive immunity...
Time to move to Ireland, I think.
Media Concepts @ 97:
True enough, but the Republicans DID do pretty much exactly what we're asking the Democrats to do: they shut down the government over an asinine budget dispute and they pursued impeachment to the joy of their base.
And they lost a lot of support.
The Democrats, on the other hand, have done the exact opposite.
And they've lost a lot of support.
Well, you shouldn't get to be coach if you can't win ball games. Especially if someone slipped you $1000.00 to throw the game.
At what point does outrage turn to despair and despair to apathy? Nothing will change in the United States, the game is fixed, until there is some calamitous event similar to the Great Depression.
Everyone say it with me.."REID MUST GO!!! REID MUST GO!!!". Out with the bought & pay for Democrats. You too Pelosi!! Do you think people when people voted for Reid or Pelosi they voted for what they are doing? Vote them out...it's the only choice we have. Individuals are the biggest, most powerful ineffective lobbyist & special interest group. We just don't show up to do anything. See you back here after 2008 election to complain about the same crap. This is the same crap my parents complain about....I think my grandparents did as well.
fiver @ 1:
Fuck the spinning and the limp dick excuses! These leaders KNEW what we were against. No matter how many times they would had been defeated by the Republicans we wanted them vote their souls and properly represent the people how voted for them. They LIED to us and failed repeatedly, caving in to a President with a 29% approval rating. Nearly everyone in this presently elected government deserves to be fired!
GO DODD! You have my vote and my confidance! NO more corporate pussy democrats will get my vote!
Well lets all get behind Christopher Dodd. He is the only Democrat that seems to be showing at least a modicum of courage and spine. Obama and Hillary can go to hell with Reid and Pelosi and Dodd deserves support for his support of the American people and the Constitution.
Be respectful to him? This weasel deserves to hand his "tepid tea" behind handed to him on as he is shown the door.
The only respect I would show Reid at this point would be not to spit on him. Even if he were on fire.
Otay @ 108:
Whoops. Should be: "This weasel deserves to have his "tepid tea" behind handed to him"
Anyone notice how "Tepid Tead" Reid honors Repug holds but not Dem holds?
Our own Senators are conning us. They’re selling out to the telecoms. They’re clearly trying to sneak this through.
We all know it takes 60 votes to get anything through the Senate. They’re trying to sneak this through with just 50. They know that if this bill achieves cloture, its passage is guaranteed. Leiberman’s vote will likely push this over the top, and if it's a tie, Cheney will break it.
Sure, the Democratic Senators will vote against the actual bill, but by allowing cloture. They’ll have their political cover all while guaranteeing the bill's passage. They’re selling out to the telecoms.
Why the hell else would Reid be trying to sneak this through:
A. Late on a Friday evening (take out the trash day)
B. 10 days before Christmas
C. 3 weeks before the Iowa primary?
I can’t blame Reid entirely, I think he is probably under tremendous pressure from his fellow Democratic Senators to get this passed. There would seem to be a lot of Democratic Senators who desperately want this bill to pass, but also want the political cover of voting against it.
Reid has even pulled Senator Dodd’s hold on the bill and is refusing to let him filibuster it next week. If Dodd wants to filibuster, he’s been told he’ll have to do it over the weekend.
I think Hillary, Obama, and Biden are the only people who can stop this now. They’ll have to come back to DC and join in the filibuster. DC is the last place any of them want to be right now, but without them, this bill WILL pass.
"Senator Reid a call (remember to be on-topic and respectful)"
Don't you know, to get respect, you have to earn it.
Senator Reid lost it looooooooooooooong time ago just like the other ENABLER (Pelosi).
And if you wonder why on earth the Democratic "leaders" and party have lost it, you can blame the DLC and all those centrist policies that have brought in new people in the Democratic party who are really republiCONs who have infiltrated our party.
Out with wimpy Reid & the skank Pelosi first.
Then get rid of LIEberman, Feinstein, Schulmer, & Ralph Emmanuel the jerk who brought DLC "victories" that helps only corporations and sticks it to WE THE PEOPLE.
A revolution is coming and everything will be turned around in 2008. Who knows, maybe NO party will have a majority with many independents and NEW democrats taking over these USELESS sack of shit!
Sorry, but I have had it!
JasonS @ 101:
I don't think the Democrats need to shut down the government. That's the petulant behavior of a party that still thinks it's in the minority. The GOP had been out of the majority for 40 years whent they took over, so perhaps they can be excused for acting childish. The Democrats were only out of the majority for 12 years or so. If they do not understand the basic power game of politics, in which those in the majority have a hell of a lot of bargaining and other power, then they don't deserve what WE gave them a year ago. How did Reid and Pelosi rise to the level of leadership anyway? Was that the best the party could do?
I don’t think the Democrats need to shut down the government.
Well, it's clear that the Republicans will block anything and they've demonstrated a willingness to shut down the government in the past.
Our mandate to the Democrats may be real, but it constitutes no power to alter the rules of the Congress.
So, when the Democrats present a funding bill with benchmarks and timelines and the Republicans filibuster, the most the Democrats can do right now is make them actually filibuster.
Which would shut the government down, effectively.
What else would you have them do at this point? "Make" the Republicans back down?
America is over with. Reid and Pelosi are enemies of democracy. The American people are enemies of democracy. They are fat, dumb, greedy and lazy. A democracy depends on its populace to be a democracy. The US government is doing the work of their idiotic population. Everybody with a brain needs to get the hell out of that shit hole.
Reid's made some kind of a deal that we probably won't know about until later. He handed them the patriot act in exchange for the war funding resolution. There's "something in this deal too.
You know, you may not get everything you want because politics should be about compromise. But the "compromise" these days always means that the dems get pulled to the right. One shouldn't have to *allow* the telecom companies to break the law as part of a fucking compromise.
The republicans seem to understand that in order to get everything you REALLY want, you ask for something outrageous. The the "compromise" position gets you exactly what you wanted all along.
Why can't the dems understand this? I mean, WHAT THE FUCK?
Right on! @ 89:
And still no action ? ...... going to leave it all to some girls in pink t-shirts ?........ who are the real cowards ?
kaT @ 63:
I sure as hell hope not, you've fucked up your own country, have to keep you from messing up any more now. americans abroad are some of the worst kind as well, ask an Iraqi.
An American @ 32:
Nope stay at home and sort it out, you started you finish it, last thing we need is this seeping around the world.
And for the miss-informed (i.e. americans) it's Norway (or Ireland depending on how you measure it) that's #1. ..... oh and places like "such as".
I Am A Banana @ 27:
You didn't, you're cattle that think your vote counts.
ConcernedCanuck @ 11:
Isn't it time for Americans to quit being respectful to these corrupt, unapologetic, incompetent morons? Just asking.
I don't think they have the spine for it.
Underground Pirate @ 116:
Oh no, they get to stay there and deal with it, the price of apathy.
Hype-Jersey @ 117:
Because as with most arguments there is no left and right, it's just that it's easier to politicise everything to keep the serfs infighting while you do what you want, old tired men being threatened and who don't think they country is behind them aren't going to do anything, amercians let the hounds of hell into power, and now this is the pay back.
Media Concepts @ 114:
The dems don't have a fillibuster-proof majority. And the party is chock full of the blue dogs who would sooner side with the republicans than be accused of aiding "the terrists..." We only have a "majority" if there is solidarity in the democratic party. And there isn't. Our majority is very, very tenuous. And to tell you the truth, as much as I HATE this kind of shit, I'm kind of glad that the dems don't require their minions to march in lockstep with the "party line." That's how the republicans end up dominating everthing, even when they are the minority. They don't tolerate dissenting opinions and they make their members vote exactly as they are told.
JerryM @ 120:
I agree but I'm not quite to the point where I want to let go of the fantasy that the populace actually matters. Look, it's xmas time and if there is no Santie Claus, the least you can do is allow me to hang on to the fantasy that the dems will actually work for their constituents until after the holidays.
Dodd will be alone doing anything, he will get killed even if he does anything.
Hype-Jersey @ 122:
Haven't you had long enough in the "americon dream land" ? ...... I think the people being in la la land is where this all started ?
Booo !! Look there is a ghost, scared yet ? Now do what I say !! ....... this stuff is pathetic.
JerryM @ 119:
Sorry JerryM, I already got my job lined up in London.
Apathy has nothing to do with it when you are outnumbered by uneducated morons.
Underground Pirate @ 116:
Bullshit. Now's the time to stand and fight. The world's only super power has been turned over to weasels, villains and bogus con men.
We must take it back or die trying.
JerryM @ 119:
Apathy? You mean like writing 300 million people off based on the terrible, terrible mistakes of their leaders? Leaders who they disapprove of? Leaders who we've repudiated with all legal means?
How many bad leaders has Europe endured? Asia? Africa?
Let's not be too eager to write any part of humanity off for failure to violently overthrow their government.
JasonS @ 127:
Oh yes that good old defence .......... pointing the finger, right up there with the other american defence arguing semantics and splitting hairs. It's ok to let a cabal carry on with the blood letting in your name, why, because others did it .......... oh silly me, I should of seen that as obviously it was OK for them to do it as well ..... err no dosen't fly.
And yes 300+ million giving the % of tolerable vr extremist ignorant nutters, sure the % is defiantly low enough to justify.
Symes @ 125:
Well mores the pity for London it's a nice place, it could do with less americans if anything. Also if you leave what does that leave more of behind ? Sully one place and onto the next eh.
Sorry JerryM, I already got my job lined up in London.
Apathy has nothing to do with it when you are outnumbered by uneducated morons.
Much better to be in a country that's the BITCH of uneducated morons, eh?
JasonS @ 126:
Yup that's the idea, long over due though rather late than never (Hmmmm reminds me of WW2 ..... and you supported the evil in the beginning, hmm lots of parallels there).
JasonS @ 129:
A wonderfully typical (and wrong) americon attitude, and you wonder why the world hates you ?
Oh yes that good old defence ………. pointing the finger, right up there with the other american defence arguing semantics and splitting hairs. It’s ok to let a cabal carry on with the blood letting in your name, why, because others did it ……….
Oh, for fuck's SAKE will you read before you type? I'm not excusing our leadership or our behavior in the world or saying "hey, to hell with it...Europe had Hitler, right?"
What I'm saying is that I'm not prepared to give up on America forever because of this episode, any more than I would be prepared to give up on any other country suffering this way.
Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, were vile and nasty people. Worse, yes, than Bush. So far, anyway.
But I would never write off Germany, Cambodia or Russia because of them.
I'll say this REALLY slowly so you hear it:
NONE
OF
WHAT
I
JUST
SAID
IS
MEANT
TO
EXCUSE
THE
HORRIBLE
HORRIBLE
HORRIBLE
HORRIBLE
BEHAVIOR
OF
OUR
GOVERNMENT
JerryM @ 131:
Excuse me, but that's popular BRITISH sentiment. That's not my idea, that's theirs.
I'm saying that you can only run so far from this problem.
Well mores the pity for London it’s a nice place, it could do with less americans if anything. Also if you leave what does that leave more of behind ? Sully one place and onto the next eh.
Gee, prejudicial, much? Know Symes that well, do you? He sullied America himself, did he?
Do you have anything left but hate?
JasonS @ 132:
Unfortunately it would seem that the majority (if not vast) amount of americans would disagree with you as they either voted it in, did nothing or do nothing now, excusing the few that did bother to vote the other way the last two times.
JasonS @ 133:
The UK is doing the US a favour by mediating with Europe for it, because no one else wants/has to. The UK is still paying for the WW2 help (which payment was extracted for by the US while the US and your current presidents grandfather were supporting Hitler) they aren't the US's Bitch, (the oil companies are international anyway so that is aside to the politics and the people). Any where the US feels like putting over a barrel for it's own ends will pay via military action or trade wars, it's just that the UK has ruled at diplomacy and carrys on doing it, the US just hits people with clubs and grunts.
Media Concepts @ 116 wrote
I don’t think the Democrats need to shut down the government. That’s the petulant behavior of a party that still thinks it’s in the minority.
Better Democrats bankrupt the government with over ten trillion dollars in debt, buy the occupation in Iraq, and make law irrelevant.
JasonS @ 134:
Just reflecting what america is giving the world in ever increasing amounts.
I used to think it was an OK place, at least now I know the truth about it. Can't help or save it any more, stage two is now damage control for the rest of the world I'd think.
JerryM @ 135:
What part of "24%" do you not get? This population is pissed off. Unfortunately, we do not have a parliamentary system, so we have no legal recourse to make our politicians do anything.
If Dubya and Congress' approval ratings were above water, I'd agree, but I'm afraid what we have now is impotent rage.
We have no mechanism to recall our government.
And I seem to recall you lot coming right along with us when the party was going strong, so I'm reluctant to accept ALL of the blame for this.
Why didn't YOU guys stop us? Why didn't the rest of the world stand as one against US hegemony?
Because we're all under the spell of madmen, and let's not fight each other over it...let's get rid of them.
JerryM @ 137:
And when the rest of the world decides it can't help or save YOU because YOU were the biggest cheerleaders in the "coalition of the willing," will THAT be fair comment?
We have Bush. You have Blair. I'll take a coin toss on either contemptible swine.
Rethuglicans = Wife Beaters
Demospinless = Beatees
Simple, really.
JerryM @ 128:
My employer doesn't think so, it would appear there aren't enough qualified Englishmen to fill the position.
As for sullying, not a chance. I'm there to integrate not change what I find. America and it's puritan hangups can stay where I leave it, in America.
My family came from there, I am just going back to where we should have stayed.
And I don't require damage control, I require the pointers to keep me from being the ugly American until I get settled in and see how it all works on my own. My own awareness of the situation should help out more than anything on that score.
Perhaps someday we'll meet in a pub, I'll buy you a dram or pint and we can bash the stupid Americans like civilized people.
Until then don't be such an ass, the ones running for their lives are not the ones you should be worried about. It's the ones that stay behind you should keep an eye out for.
JerryM @ 131:
Nice Jason, and wrong.
The reality of a two-party system is a mirage. America has essentially one-party, composed of the entire GOP and the Corporate Dem Party. There are a few actual progressives that fight for the poor and middle class. The money, power and greed that has corrupted the two-party system prevents a progressive agenda from being enacted. Dems are not spineless and do not cave. They vote the way their owners direct them. Who are their owners? Hint:It ain't you and me.
This is crap... I guess if this keeps up the center leaves the Democratic party and it fractures. Reid deserves the name Quisling..
Harry Reid is a traitor to the Democratic Party and a traitor to WE THE PEOPLE.
You know what they do to traitors during a time of war, don't you?
Obviously Senator Reid is just trying to save American jobs!
http://rawstory.com/news/2007/For_one_company_FISA_wiretaps_carry_1016.html
Kevin Schmidt, Ojai CA @ 145:
Hmm, either you are a supreme idiot posting your name and location while threatening violence on a sitting US Senator or you are trying to get the real Kevin Schmidt into trouble for doing so. Which is it?
Whatever happened to that whole "not one red cent" thing? Haven't we reached the point where the money spigot needs to be slammed shut and money directed solely to non-DLC/DCCC/DNC candidates? What about creating a list of companies to boycott (i.e. Exxon, AT&T, Verizon, etc.) along with viable, more progressive alternatives wherever possible? Obviously we are at the point where the only course of action is to strike where it hurts, the wallet. At the very least, at least one very high profile Dem needs to go down. It's time to take the "Lamont" effect and put it in play against multiple targets (Reid, Rahm, Schumer, and so on). Anyone arguing that the Dems are planning to really shake things up should they take full majorities and the presidency aren't paying attention. Reid and the other DLC toadies are knocking themselves out trying to piss on the base and cover the telcos. Again, either they are bought and paid for or are so ethically compromised as to be unable to muster the will to oppose Bush, even when, as here, they could easily walk away with a victory.
I strongly suspect what we are seeing with Obama and Hillary masks a growing backlash against the entire Dem Congress. Obama is benefiting from his push to paint himself as an agent of change, as an antidote to the Beltway establishment (not really entirely accurate at all, but that's another thread). His surging numbers imply that the public, DUH, despises Washington to the core. I'm talking visceral, searing, hatred. Hillary has been tagged, particularly since her Iran vote (a supremely stupid move on her part), as "business as usual" (both literally and figuratively, if you take my meaning). And so we see her crashing in the polls. Her campaign staff's pathetic efforts to slow their free fall by engaging in Rovian slime tactics (seemingly executed by Rove's inbred half-wit cousin), only make her look more like GOP-lite. Effectively she has been made to look like the time worn Clinton cliche: calculating, ruthless, craven, and insincere. Her, and the vast majority of the Dems', failure to lead on any issue of merit, combined with their ability to fold faster than Superman on laundry day, is sucking the wind utterly from their 2006 sails. DO NOT be surprised if their majorities suddenly disappear and they find themselves at the end of 2008 wondering what on Earth could have gone wrong when everything seemed like such a "slam dunk."
It's amazing when you think about, not one major accomplishment, NOT ONE.
No expanded child health care
No progress on Climate Change (but we raised the CAFE standards to 35 mpg...by 2020!)
No progress on Iraq
No one held accountable for anything (not for 9/11, not for Iraq, not for the attorney purge, not for Katrina, not for the spate of tainted food and toys, not Blackwater...and with the CIA tapes we see Mukasey proving to be every bit the administration tool he was predicted to be...Thanks Chuck and Diane!)
No support for renewable energy (but plenty of support for billions more in oil subsidies)
Cripple FISA? Where do I sign?
More worthless abstinence programs? No problem!
Get a minimum wage increase but cripple it with corporate giveaways? Sure!
What? Vote to show support for Christians or wag your finger at Moveon? You got it!
The list goes on endlessly.
What a complete tragic farce this bunch are.
The second I can get out of this pit and get my kids somewhere where they might have some sort of future, I am GONE.
Can we find a real DEMOCRAT to run against REID and other sneaking REPUBLICANS that are in the DEMOCRAT party. WE have to start this election or start another party. THERE IS NO OTHER CHOICE.
If the telecom companies are called in to testify about what happened, then they can claim the 'fifth' unless there is immunity. The real question is whether there will be testimony.
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