Kansas GOP Chair Sends Email Boasting of Voter Caging
Kris Kobach, a former counsel to then-Attorney General John Ashcroft who is currently the chairman of the Kansas GOP, sent out an email on Thur entitled "Kansas Republican Party Year in Review" in which he brags of voter caging. Blue Tide Rising has the goods:
... Kris Kobach, chairman of the Kansas GOP, sent out a self-congratulatory litany of accomplishments. Among them was one particularly eye-catching item:
"To date, the Kansas GOP has identified and caged more voters in the last 11 months than the previous two years!" [...]
Slate.com has the best comprehensive write-up on how the Republican Party employs caging techniques to suppress the votes of the poor, the deployed, and college students. (You know, likely Democratic voters.)
Did we mention it's illegal? And that Kris Kobach is proud to be doing it?
Since Kris Kobach can't expand his own party or force his own Party's members to support his candidates he's shamelessly trying to keep Democrats from voting instead. This is the stratagem of a desperate and shrinking party.
Someone needs to ask Kris Kobach which voters he's caging and how he's doing it. Someone like a newspaper editor or perhaps a Grand Jury. ... (more)
More on Kris Kobach here and here (He apparently suffers from an advanced case of Lou Dobbs disease). Depending on what methods are being used in Kobach's admitted voter caging scheme, it may very well be illegal, but hardly surprising. Voter suppression through caging lists has become a standard part of the Republican playbook to steal elections for some time now. In Sept McClatchy detailed current Republican voter caging efforts underway in Florida and Ohio to "impede Democratic-leaning minorities from voting in 2008," and back in July PBS NOW took a look at the Republican Party's voter caging plan "designed to keep Democrats from voting, allegedly by targeting people based on their race and ethnicity." Watch that video here.
It's only cheating if you're caught, and maybe not then.
Greg Palast has been all over this for a couple of years now. If you haven't read his book "Armed Madhouse: Who's Afraid of Osama Wolf?, China Floats, Bush Sinks, The Scheme to Steal '08, No Child's Behind Left, and Other Dispatches from the Front Lines of the Class War", you need to run, not walk, to your local bookstore today and pick this up.
Like most petty thieves, these people are just not that smart. Yet, without police protection, no petty would go to jail. Since we have no Justice Department to speak of, these people know they can get away with whatever they please.
Jared Taylor-esque racial hygienists on the march in what Chris Matthews called the party of national security and of moral values on October 9th
Yes , yes, please do go ON, we're all listening.
Tactics such as "voter caging" are just more signs that the GOP "leadership" has never had any real leadership abilities to offer the voters and they know it. Just about every aspect of the U.S. from its: society, military, economy, global image you name is going down the toilet and its all due in large part this same GOP leadership. The only people that would need to use criminal or underhanded methods such as "voter caging" are those that know they are failed leaders.
Dammit, these assholes are getting more Nazi-like every damn day.
When any person or group of persons is so unconcerned with prosecution that they can BRAG about committing a crime without concern (or even an inkling of shame) regarding any possible consequences for what they've done, people better sit up and take notice that something is SERIOUSLY wrong.
1] When asked specifically what he meant by his caging statement, Mr. Kobach responded: "I can't recall" and everybody said o.k. and moved on.
2] When asked specifically what he meant by his caging statement, Mr. Kobach responded:"I was referring to actual cages where we put people until they came to their senses and voted Republican. We would never wash names from voter rolls - *that's* illegal!"
Look, anyone who thinks either the Republicans or Democrats have an ounce of righteousness among them ought to read Dick Morris' recently released book 'Outrage'. What our elected politicians have been doing to this country is more than an Outrage, its immoral, unethical and downright illegal. Morris takes an unbiased and heavily documented approach to revealing just what goes on in Washington. I smell an American Revolution in the air. Maybe not this year or next but soon. It seems essential if we are to restore our nation.
theWalrus @ 9:
Does this fuckhead need a kick to balls or what?
Kick in the balls & good ass whippin
This story needs a lot more attention. I hope Josh Marshall et al, ThinkProgress and Keith Olbermann don't jump all over it.
dugg it
Last election a political party in a city here, actually gave food to a few poor people, in exchange for their votes.
They got seriously burned over it, though technically, it was not illegal as such.
When I look at what you have had to deal with the last decade, I honestly am not sure I can believe my eyes.
OK, I'll say the obvious.
How ironically apropos it would be for Kris Kobach to end up in a supervised cage for illegally caging potential voters.
What more precious right is there in a democracy than the right (it should be a 'duty') to vote?
And preventing that is a heinous crime, not a peccadillo.
oops, my bad
justabill @ 12:
That's better.
So is anything going to be done about this, or is this just another story I read here and nowhere else? Over the last 8 years, I've seen the most outlandishly anti-American shite imaginable coming from their end. But not a damn whiff of repercussions.
I know voter caging is an old cliche, but I still am not convinced he is using it in that context. It has more of a homoerotica/S&M in there. Is it ignorant to assume that all Republican leaders in Middle America are?
More GOP news!
Murdoch just bought Hustler.
The only management change he's making is that all models must be republican.
We're sure gonna be looking at a lot of ugly twats.
if the repubs win this next presidential election, we are fuked as a nation
Preacher Boob @ 18:
Larry Craig is getting an expose in the Jan 08 Issue.
Scott Adie @ 10:
Don't tar all Democrats with the same brush. The worst (real) Democrat out there is better than the best Repugnant.
"The difference between bad and worse is a more important distinction than the difference between good and better." - Robert A. Heinlein
Remember 7 years ago when the Naderites said that there was no difference between G-Dub and Al Gore? Does anyone still believe that?
Preacher Boob @ 18:
Oh goody! Maybe he'll have Ann Coulter do a centerfold so we can see how big her penis is.
Caging isn't really a new thing. In 1972, I was living in Isla Vista, CA, right next to the UCSB campus. Just before the election, I got a piece of mail from a stock brokerage or some such financial business, advertising its wares. It was not the kind of advertising we students without a penny to our names usually got.
After the election, I read in the paper that the Republicans were behind the mailing. Since the Post Office wouldn't deliver mail if the recipient's name wasn't on the mail box, and since people in Isla Vista moved about every six weeks and getting your name on your new mail box was never a big priority (remember, these were the hippie days) the Republicans figured they'd be able to challenge LOTS of voters.
McGovern carried Isla Vista by a huge margin, 80%+ if I recall correctly. And I don't know how many legitimate voters were unable to vote that day because of the caging. But even if no one was prevented from voting, it wasn't because the GOP wasn't trying hard.
jay @ 19:
We've been fuked for 7 years now.
Scott Adie @ 10:
I'll have to check that book out, though I don't need anyone to tell me just how fucked up this nation is. It doesn't hurt to keep reading to stay angry and motivated. A few months ago, people laughed at me for advising them to start stocking up on food and water, and other items necesary for such times. Now they're beginning to think I(and others as well) may be onto something. The next year is going to be make it or break it time for this country.
myiq2xu @ 21:
But that is one of the best dems vs. The worst Repug that will ever exist. the famous Republican, John Wayne Gacy would've made a better President.
That doesn't prove your logic that the worst Dem, say Jeffrey Dahlmer is better than best Republican.
I wonder how he's going to deny saying what he just said, and then doing again what he just denied saying he was proud of doing.
myiq2xu @ 24:
It's been fcked since Reagan. Clinton was just a short reprieve of sorts. It fell off the cliff into insanity 7 years ago.
I agree completely
Lou Dobbs disease, i. e., protecting our borders. Stop saying anti-IMMIGRANT, it's anti-ILLEGAL ENTRANT. Too bad so many liberals can't fathom that there's a difference and that it matters very much to the legal citizens of this country.
liberalNmoderation @ 25:
Did Dick Morris mention that he's the worst offender? Love seeing the pot calling the kettle black.
These stories need to be brought to everyone's attention and OFTEN!! - I'm sick and tired seeing that fat weasel, Karl Rove playing a victim of a non-issue (voter fraud) when the murderous moron he helped put into office - probably wouldn't get elected as dog catcher in an environment where these disgusting practices couldn't take place.
kaT @ 31:
Dick Morris was too busy sucking toes to notice that he is the worst offender and a shameless opportunist - No disrespect - but you've got to be a real idiot to consider any sylable coming out of his yap as unbiased!!!!
Joe O. @ 6:
True Joe, but @ the end of the day, the only thing they care about is the fact that they have the power to continue robbing the people all around the world. They don't give a rats ass if you think they're morally bankrupt.
RockmanEnough @ 34:
Agreed. For them, its all about greed and power and they will do anything and everything to keep it.
Look, politics is a game.
Hell, humans have turned all of life into a game.
In civilized societies, we play the games with rules, either in an attempt to make the 'game' 'fair and just', or at least attempt to rein in some of the egregious excesses that can occur, human 'nature' being what it is.
So we (supposedly) have a nation of 'Laws'. That's what the Constitution is, a 'Law'. It's THE rule book for our society.
And when the members of our society flaunt the Law, the Constitution, and pay no penalty, guess what? Tomorrow, bigger, better, more excessive flaunting.
That's why Impeachment is so important. It's the designated penalty for the president, or other 'High Officials', ignoring the Constitution.
That's why the 'Immigration' problem is so important, the solution must not condone law-breaking.
And that's why 'Voter Caging' must be dealt with promptly, and severely, and so must tamperable voting machines, because if we don't do our best to assure fair voting for all, we don't have a 'democracy'.
I agree wholeheartedly, Preacher Boob. There is a systemic problem in most so called democracies today. Not only in the US, but in Europe as well. This leads to apathy which spirals the problem. The question is: How do we stop the vicious circle.
Caging caannot be accomplished without the full cooperation of the Secretary of State. In this case Kansas Secretary of State Ron Thornburgh.... a longtime REPUBLICAN. The Kansas Democratic party need to file a federal law suit against the Secretary of State.
And they need to do it now!
What is pitiful is that, to the best of my knowledge, caging is only illegal when it is explicitly racial caging.
This really highlights the fact that our lapdog Democrats have failed to do ANYTHING to reform the electoral system in our country.
During the 2006 elections I had probably 4 people call me and ask me if they should bother to vote. I told them all that the Thugs can only get away with stealing a close election. They certainly are working "enhance" their vote rip-off technology.
this date is the first day of kwanzaa:
umoja or unity.
salam malakim my brothers and sisters.
myiq2xu @ 29:
Hare may have been better than Burke, but I never would've invited either over drinks.
If this practice is indeed legal, where the hell is the enforcement of the rule of law? Has bush taken this country to a state where laws don't matter, and the repukes and those who emulate them can do whatever they damn well please?
We really are in trouble here, and it will only get worse if fascists continue to run our country - be they repuke or demoquack.
Caging is what ? Yeow, blazing saddles. As Slim Picking’s said “ what is the wide world of sports is goin here”. The latest and greatest term for wire taping telephones and the Internet. When is America going to believe we have
“Wal-Mart” minds of the GOP driving America into the ground, now using the caging method. Yikes.
Currently watching the Family for Online Internet Safety, on C-Span. The real glaring thing about this association is the people who work in it. Mostly CEO’s, Directors, and high level people in corporate America. All this leads me to a ponder on a prophecy of what has been going on ever since the Internet inception. Plus this new ideal of caging going on.
This Kansas politician likely has been part of a cartel of the Republicans which already have servers, hubs and Internet equipment with proprietary software to create your profile and put every American into a “caged” data base, and use and abuse any way they can make a buck, or proliferate power. All the while parading around the social responsibilities of safety for our children. Likely the “Mark Foley” effect is in full swing here.
All installed to prevent a self regulation private citizenry that can flush out investigating those secret trust fund babies. The cartel is doing nothing more then protecting their perversion of profiteering so they set up baby setting software to prevent their very own from giving the public any chance of an ideal of what they really do to swindle more money into those secret trust fund baby accounts. Believe it there are whole generations that have no clue as to what Compassion is, or understand what the reality is that is going on, George Bush is infinite proof.
I read this article and groaned aloud. Having gone through the Florida 2000 and 2004 elections, I knew what kinds of people engaged in the vote caging in Florida. These people have no consciences, no ethics, and likely no morals. They should not be allowed anywhere near any political or legal position of responsibility. They are common criminals. I was a registered Republican and I felt disgust, as did many others I knew who witnessed these actions. I can also assure everyone that the news outside of the state of Florida did not report the actual news, but rather a prepared version that did not reflect the reality on the ground in Florida.
I don't know who I blame more in vote caging, the rePUGs who as a force are better than Icepick Harry at criminal endevors or the Demo leadership who havent done much about caging over the years especially when a judge during Reagans term threw the book at at the rePUGs.
Kris Kobach is a thug in a Brooks Brothers suit. And proud of it. He has run for the KS-03 house seat held by Dennis Moore and lost decisively (but I'm sure it was the fault of those brown and black people in Wyandotte County that he was thumped, not the goodly god-fearing white folk in Johnson County.) He is all for sending the U.S. military to the southern border to stop illegal immigration, as he advocated at the 2004 Republican convention, but he hasn't said a word about the employers who hire undocumented workers.
If the feds don't step in on this, Kansas is screwed. The Attorney General is resigning in a sex scandal (but the malfeasance and harassment took place while he was still a Republican).
The caging ploy really got ginned up after Nancy Boyda kicked Jim Ryun to the curb in the KS-02 in 2006. The KS-02 is home to both Ft. Leavenworth and Ft. Riley, and the military vote put Boyda over the top. (Contrary to popular belief, military families vote locally when they have kids in the school system.)
natisman @ 45:
Yeah, which pig has the worst shade of lipstick?!
Disenfranchising voters is not a solely Republican phenomenon. Repugs do it by removing voters from rolls. Democrats do it by keeping candidates off ballots. I'd like to see Gregg Palast focus some of his energy on that dirty little secret.
When it comes to using disgusting tactics to suppress democracy, Republicans have nothing on the Democrats. Just ask Ralph Nader.
Sorry guys/gals, but......The United States of America broke untold international laws by invading TWO sovereign nations, and killing a million plus of it's citizens. Yesterday being the so-called "christian" holiday, many more were killed in numerous attacks that were created because the US is there. Period. Voting caging? Big deal. If these clowns are not all on trial in an international tribunal and sentenced for crimes against humanity, then there is something right screwed about the US. Whether you voted for these idiots or not, is it not YOUR responsibility to make them accountable not just to the US voter, but to the world as a whole? Do you not owe that to the world? Voter caging? Good God, is that ever terrible. Why, what's next? Perhaps they'll try to forcibly bring democracy to the USA!!!
rtbwa @ 33:
Worst offender? Compared to damn near anything you care to mention that's gone on(still goin on) in this "administration" by damn near EVERYONE involved top to bottom...one could hardly claim that Morris is the worst offender. I know he's no saint, not by a long shot...These repubs make him look like one though. So, I scoff at thee!
Concerned Canuck, it IS a big deal - the thugs retain control and give it a patina of legitimacy by manipulating who votes.
Vote caging is just one essential ingredient of the Republican strategy of "Divide, Suppress and Conquer" which aims to drive down the participation of potential Democratic and independent voters through unprecented redistricting, curbs on registration, onerous new ID requirements, and polling place eligibility challenges.
For the details, see:
"Supreme Court Test for GOP Vote Suppression Strategy."
--Blue Girl @ 51:
It's well documented that both parties are corrupt. So? You people vote for them. Daily people praise 'em whether they be Dems or Reps. They claim to represent you to the world, as they kill, rape and pillage. No guilt?
Paladin @48
That's a bit of a stretch. To be a valid comparison you'd need a representative from the Democratic party stopping people from signing a petition to show Nader had sufficient votes to even be a candidate.
Are you saying that representatives of the Democratic party are preventing people from signing petitions? Or that they are also caging voters?
If so how about some proof.
RockmanEnough @ 37:
We must insist on our lawmakers creating rational laws. We must elect a rational law-enforcer, in the presidency. Who, not so incidentally, we can trust to appoint rational law-interpreters.
None of this can be done without an as-fair-as-possible voting system, so insuring that must be priority ONE.
Paladin @ 48:
Wingnut Troll response to GOP scandal #1: "The Democrats do it too!"
I am one of the people screaming for better representation and primary challengers. But seriously - this "pox on both there houses" schtick is getting old.
People used to say that there was really no difference in the two parties. The last seven years have show us that the folks who said that were abysmally, horribly, perfectly WRONG. Turns out that there really is a difference.
So what would you have us do down here? Just stop having a government? Or keep struggling to repair the one we have?
Personally, I kinda fell in love with the notion of the government we learned about in ninth grade Civics, and think we ought to give it a go.
So what would you have us do down here? Just stop having a government? Or keep struggling to repair the one we have?
When a government is worse than no government then it's time to get rid of it. I think that's Common Sense, or something Thomas Paine said.
Thomas Paine didn't have all those Nukes to keep track of when the government went away.
That is what made the demise of the Soviet Union so scary - the number of nuclear powers practically doubled overnight. In place of one, now there were four.
I'm all for a revolution, I just think we ought to use ballots a while longer, rather than head right for bullets.
They aren't going to be subtle in 08. Expect GOP vote theft in every state, every precinct. They know with a bankrupt platform and lunatic candidates its their only chance. Steal, intimidate, lie-- its the new GOP.
myiq2xu @ 56:
Wingnut Troll response to GOP scandal #2: "The Democrats did it first!"
Tell you what...let's all send letters to all of our Congresspersons, the President and Vice President and all federal appointed officials and make it something that requires response. If they don't respond with a signature, let's strip them of their voting privileges. Come to think of it, we could send letters to all registered Republicans. Let's challenge them.
What more precious right is there in a democracy than the right (it should be a ‘duty’) to vote?
In Australia - you are actually fined if you don't vote and I'm all for it.
Lets just get some good hemp rope - lots of it!
Time for a good ol fashioned nationwide necktie party!
Wasn't there a restraining order against the repug party for voter caging? Why are they still able to do this? These democracy- hating thugs need to be completely removed from power next year.
Koback is the brains behind the Loyalty Oath. When even the "Freepers" think you've gone too far, you should probably reassess.
The Republican Party has been made into the image of its number one financial supporter, the number one molder of their thoughts. Unfortunately for the USA and the world, the conservative movements' savior and go to guy wants democracy replaced with theocratic fascism so that has become conservatism's goal.
The conservative movement's savior.
Conservatisms' number one funder.
--Blue Girl @ 59:
Heh, I think of that "quote" as a response to any calls to do away with government. Many years ago I'd go for anarchy. But came to the conclusion that it would only work if a constant state of individuals struggling against each other (the way of nature) or in a stagnant society and culture where no change ever occurs.
Revolution is as natural as the Earth going around the Sun. Popular vote is just a means to allow change to be bloodless. I'd just wish those wanting to prevent it would see the alternative is much less attractive.
--Blue Girl @ 57:
That is a good point. The Democrats work hard with Republicans in the spirit of bipartisanship to achieve Republican goals, but Republicans don't work with Democrats to achieve Democratic goals.
I see now.
Wait till they find out that God and Jesus are not a republican or democrat. Oh my....
The whole purpose of the American political class is to maintain power by thwarting the substance of popular sovereignty while maintaining its form.
Years ago, I heard Kobach on a talk radio show in Kansas City. I called in to talk to him. I told him that the main thing wrong with the Republican Party is that they do not know how to govern. They are too interested in pushing a right-wing agenda that does nothing to help the American people. The current controversy over the Public Option in the health care bill under discussion is the perfect of example of how the Republican Party just doesn't get it that elected representatives are supposed to work for their constituents, not for big business interests.
As a UMKC graduate with a degree in Economics and graduate school studies in Accounting, but no degree, I am greatly angered that the Republicans continue, year after year, to mislead and to scare the general public about important issues such as taxation and social programs that will help the majority of Americans. Kobach should be ashamed of himself.
Shortly after the American Revolution the US govt was taken over by precisely the same corporate interests intent on global expansion that the Revolution was fought to end.
The only difference was that the British were no longer the profiteers, it was "Americans" (mostly) doing the plunder-for-profit.
In 1845 the US annexed Texas, which had just seceded from Mexico. In the ensuing Mexican American War (1846-48) the US (by the doctrine of Manifest Destiny) took one third of what had been Mexico, thus gaining all of what is now Texas, Utah, Nevada and California, most of Arizona & New Mexico, and parts of Colorado, Wyoming, Oklahoma and Nebraska.
The California Gold Rush immediately ensued, bringing great wealth to the US and to many individuals as well.
The key issue in the American Civil War was whether the Southern slave owners would be allowed to expand into the Western regions, or whether the Northeastern Industrialists (the "War Democrats") and the Republicans (MidWestern railroad interests) would control the Western expansion.
Anyone who seriously believes that "freeing the slaves" by the Federal Govt was anything more than an economic issue -- crippling the South & freeing up enormous amounts of cheap exploitable labor to develop the West -- need only reflect on how that Federal Govt treated the American "Indians".
The same Federal Govt whose boundless compassion freed the slaves, then committed genocide on the "Indians" ?
Yeah .. right.
And there you have it. The Era of the Robber Barons was born in the mid & late 1800's. The US Govt emerged as a wealthy, armed, expansionist force governed by the corporate industrialists, some are Democrats, some Republicans.
The House of Bush was born in this era. Samuel Prescott Bush sold railroad parts to EH Harrington's Union Pacific Railroad, then rose to War Profiteering in World War One.
My MAIN point is -- this did NOT start yesterday.
World War One was orchestrated by the War Profiteers.
World War Two was orchestrated by the War Profiteers. Prescott Bush & EH Harrington's son were -- MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE -- responsible for Hitler's rise in Germany. Sure, the noble Americans fought & defeated Hitler -- but WHO profitted from BOTH SIDES during that War? And WHO worked hard to get that WW2 started?
Yup -- the Bushes & their buddies.
Suggested reading: Smedley Butler: War Is A Racket
This practice is illegal, so why can't some concerned Kansan file a criminal complaint against Kobach? He has already provided the evidence!
Is caging illegal Kansas?
Ohio, Florida laws could dampen Democratic voting
--Blue Girl @ 46:
Shit. This is perfect timing (for the GOP) since our AG is in transition. I don't see Morrison fighting this one. No one will listen to him, and the next Dem AG will have to be spotless.
Beside the point, but doesn't Kobach still have a radio show too? I caught it one night where he spewed typical O'Reilly talking points about Jebus in the public square. Dennis Moore (D-3rd) has sat on the fence, and certainly won't take any lead on impeachment, but I'm sooooooooo glad he beat Kris Kobach.
If it's illegal, where the FUCK are the authorities knock-knock-knockin' on that door?
UnEasyOne @ 61:
#3: It's Clinton's fault!
I'm a democrat but am registered as republican. I vote in their primaries for the weakest candidate and then cast my vote. Sadly, I get all their rhetoric in my mailbox, but whatever... i pick up dog poop with it.
Caging? Yeah, it'd be good for the GOP leadership.
May I recommend a convenient vacation unit on the coast of Eastern Cuba??
rtbwa @ 33:
I'm sure this was planted here to sell books written by a republican nut-case.
Dick Morris: Scumbag. Hooker lover. Fox Noise analyst favorite. Two-faced to the max.
Don't buy the book.
Anyone who is seriously talking about revolution should consider a few things first:
1) Not everyone will agree with you. Right now, 25% of the people in our country still approve of G-Dub. During the American Revolution, only about 1/3 supported it, 1/3 were against, and 1/3 didn't care. (Actually, it was a rebellion, not a revolution, and it was the elites in the colonies that most actively supported it.)
2) Look at places that had revolutions during the 20th Century, like Russia and Mexico. Do you really want to see that happen here?
3) If you succeed in scrapping our current system, what will you replace it with, and who will decide? (see #1)
4) If you could organize a successful revolution, you could organize a political takeover of our country while working within the current system, which would be easier, cheaper, and less violent.
Thing Fish @ 58:
Go F*ck Yourself.
myiq2xu @ 81:
The almost inevitable outcome of a large scale revolution - successful or unsuccessful - is right-wing dictatorship - such as Napoleon.
In this country, revolution by ballot is still possible. While some aspects of the French revolution have a certain charm in today's corrupt, oligarchal America, it is important to remember all of the outcomes and ramifications of that revolution. Entire generations went through hell before the modern republic was formed.
UnEasyOne @ 83:
We just gotta get Diebold on our side.
Scott Adie @ 10:
You don't really expect me to pay money to buy a book written by Dick Morris, do you?
You have to just laugh at an attorney who is dumb enough to advertise that he committed a federal crime. Not only advertise, but boast about it and use the exact term of the crime that he committed.
Jake @ 82:
I have no idea what your problem is Jake. Care to expand on your comment?
UnEasyOne @ 83:
As I said above. In a democracy, the vote is your revolution. And those that would suppress or circumvent that path are like putting a lid on a boiling pot. And the longer the lid is left on the worse the situation will get...
Don't forget, folks... DESPERATE MEN MAKE DESPERATE MOVES. Although we should not RELAX... we should know that the GOP stand about as much a chance of winning the presidency as any common terrorist would... uh oh... STAY VIGILANT!
myiq2xu @ 56:
Oh please. You call me a troll but know nothing about me or my political background. I'm certainly no "wingnut" (assuming you mean "right wing-nut"), and I'm not here to troll. I'm a progressive and a Green Party member, and I posted my comments to remind people that, when it comes to being undemocratic (small "d"), the Democratic leadership is just as corrupt as the Republicans who pull this crap.
As for proof, that will take a while. But I can assure you that, in the 2004 campaign when Ralph Nader ran as an independent, there was no shortage of dirty tricks from the leadership of Kerry's campaign, as well as by individual Democrats and party groups acting on his behalf across the nation.
There were strategy sessions at the Democratic National Convention plotting to keep Nader off the ballot, numerous lawsuits across the country (using even Ken Starr's law firm) to challenge his ballot access, Democrats at the state level using every frivilous means possible to eliminate whole pages of ballot petition signatures, even harrassment and initimidation of petitioners, including threats of arrest. And those are just the examples I can think of.
Here are a few examples from Ralph's 2004 site:
http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=140
http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=211
http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=180
http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=154
http://www.votenader.org/why_ralph/index.php?cid=116
http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=119
http://www.votenader.org/media_press/index.php?cid=101
You may argue that, since these are from Ralph's own site, they're not "unbiased" and, thus, don't constitute "proof." Unfortunately, you won't find much about these items in the mainstream -- or even alternative -- media. So I don't know where else to point you, other than to Google, perhaps.
I personally know of at least two instances where petitioners were harrassed or threatened with criminal prosecution. Thankfully, Nader supporters aren't the kind who intimidate easily.
Call me a "troll" if you must, but if the truth is unpalatable to you, perhaps you shouldn't be visiting sights like Crooks and Liars.
Che's Lounge @ 85:
Just reported that Kobach asshole to
http://judiciary.house.gov/Reportfraud.aspx
Oops. That last comment was from me. My bad.
Okay, let's try this again....
myiq2xu @ 56:
Oh please. You call me a "troll" but you know nothing of me or my politics. I'm certainly no "wingnut" (assuming you mean "right-wing") and I'm not here to troll. I'm a progressive and a Green, and I posted my comments to remind people that the Dems can be just as un-democratic (small "d") as the Republicans.
As for Fish's request for proof, that's a little tougher. I can point you to a number of articles on Ralph's own website if you'd like, but you may consider it a "biased" viewpoint and, thus, not sufficient proof. Unfortunately, you won't find any of these items in the mainstream media -- or even the "alternative" media, for that matter, so I don't know where else to point you, other than Google. Still, as I said, I'll be happy to post links to the items on Ralph's site if requested.
I don't agree that Democratics need to have kept people from signing petitions (although they did in Oregon) to compare to the offenses outlined in this article. Voter disenfranchisement is still just as sinister whether you're targeting voters or their candidates (and those who petition for them).
I know of many instances where all available means -- some legal, some questionably legal -- were used to keep Nader off the ballot across the country, from Oregon to Illinois to Pennsylvania. I personally know of two episodes of harrassment and intimidation -- one where a couple of young petitioners were actually threatened with arrest. Fortunately, Nader supporters aren't the type who are easily intimidated.
You know, these GD republicans, and especially this GD administration, have got me so angry that, since I'm not ready to start or join a revolution, I'm about to do something I swore I would never do:
Start obeying the law myself, to set a good example.
Go Straight To JAIL!
Do not pass "Go"
Do not collect 20 million dollars in a book deal.
kaT @ 31:
Thanks for that. When we start assigning credibility to a marginal opportunist like Dick Morris, we're all in trouble.
So, WHERE'S THE FREAKIN' D.A.???? HMMMMMMMM??????
Did anyone visiting this forum who lives in the state in question drop a dime and call the DA's office demanding an investigation? Of course not! It's much easier to snipe and bitch on some website.
I'd drop the dime, but:
1. I'm not from Kansas
2. I'm not in the USA
So, all I can do is yell at you yanks to get off your butts AND DO SOMETHING.
Sometimes things do not seem acceptable but if you look deeper, there are reasons for breaking rules for a greater common good.
For example, Ira Winkler, former NSA analyst explains why the
CIA destroyed the video tapes.
Even though it is;
1. illegal
2. perhaps a tad bit unfriendly.
It was necessary and the correct action considering the circumstances.
Voter Caging... isn't that how Saddam Hussein used to run Iraq elections? So much for democracy.
LisaPeters @ 99:
That is the most retarded explanation yet.
Frizzlebear @ 98:
Let me reply from Kansas -
You mean the Republican DA that thinks it's legal to sieze medical records from an abortion clinic because a law MIGHT HAVE BEEN BROKEN (aka fishing expedition and violation of the Privacy Act)?
In the same state that actually sank to passing a law demanding that creationism was to be taught in schools as a scientific theory?
The same state where Rev. Phelps church hails from. (You know the a-hole that protests at military funerals with signs that say Thank God for IED"S)
Maybe I should complain to all my Republican reps and senators?
I'm sure they'll get right on it.
Caging is illegal if done by the national party, i.e. the RNC. But apparently not when done by state parties, i.e. Kansas GOP. HOwever, Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse introduced a bill a couple of months ago to make it illegal also for the state parties. Don't know the status of the Bill. Probably still sitting in the appropriate committee. But that's something we need to follow, and push....
I'm asking for proof that Democratic party has disfranchised voters, as in caging voters or otherwise denied the the right to vote, as you claimed back @48. I was being snarky in my response. But you are stretching the definition.
Then you are using you're own description for voter disenfranchisement. And verbally convincing a voter not to sign a petition (as Howard Dean is pilloried for doing) is not the same as preventing a voter (the word "kept" implies being in control). No voter was denied the right to vote by democrats as republicans have done and continue to do.
fachist pig,this country is going to hell in a hand basket.orwell is rolling over in his grave.
I am from neighboring Missouri where we are so proud (not) to have the estimable Kit Bond as our Senator. He's the guy who drunkenly ranted on election night in 2000 when the polls had to be kept open so that people in the city of St. Louis who had been accidentally stricken from the rolls could get a chance to vote.
I drove people to the polls in the city after voting in a lily-white precinct in suburbs in 2004. Blacks stood for an hour or more patiently waiting to vote. 4 to 5 times the wait I had..... half the voting machines. There's more than one way to suppress the vote, folks.
The Repugs in our state only want you to vote if you are the right kind of people with the right kind of vote. It's about one step up from the South pre-1960s.
We need to get rid of guys like the Kansas GOP chairman and Sen. Bond. They are sickening.
Paladin @ 48:
I wouldn't ask Ralph Nader much of anything.....If it weren't for old Ralph, I wouldn't have had to look at Ws insipidly stupid face for the past 7 years. Wonder how he sleeps nights....or is he part of the new America that believes that nothing is really ever any individual's fault? 'Cause I think George is really just the embodiment of Ralph's ego.
LisaPeters @ 99:
Collect your Utilitarian of the Year award on your way out...
Kathy in St. louis @ 107:
Kathy, just because the Dems selected somebody that wasn't electable at the time, is not Nader's fault. Obviously, people WANTED to vote for him. There has to be a reason. Let's put the blame where it belongs. If the Dems lost, it was the Dems fault. Period.
Thing Fish @ 104:
Actually, that's not what I'm referring to. First, the Democrats kept Nader off the ballot in Oregon under the traditional method (collecting signatures on the streets) using so-called "unwritten rules:"
How Democrats Kicked Nader Off the Oregon Ballot
Then, when Nader tried Oregon's alternative method for ballot access, they torpedoed that as well:
Oregon Democrats Sabotage Nader...Again
In the second case, Nader supporters were indeed prevented from signing a petition to get him on the ballot.
I must amend my earlier statement regarding alternative media to state that Counterpunch was one of the very few internet sites to help chronicle the dirty tricks campaign of the Democrats against Nader.
Fish, as for our different definitions of "voter disenfranchisement," I think you're splitting hairs. In either case, voters were prevented from voting for their candidate of choice. To suggest that one sort of disenfranchisement is better than the other because, at least in the Democrat's version they could cast a ballot (for a candidate they didn't want) is a weak rationalization.
In the end, I guess my point is that while it's right to criticize the Republicans for their dirty tricks, they're not the only dirty game in town.
When you start hearing GOP wingnuts telling the "faithful" that they have nothing to worry about because "God" will intervene on behalf of the GOP, then the election is already over before the first vote is cast.
Just like 2000 and 2004.
Where is the Kansas State AG on this; and have they planned an invstigation?
Or is an investigation of alleged illegal voter intimidation in their state an issue that is also "not on the table"?
Radically Moderate @ 111:
There was a wonderful blog-piece on Huffington Post about how Huckabee is just the GOP's chickens coming home to roost. They've cultivated the religious right for their votes pretty cynically for the past 30 years, now the religous right owns them....lock, stock and barrel.....and they want their guy.
Huckabee seems like a mildly pleasant, not very bright, non-threatening Everyman. Just what they've got right now. And how's that working out for us? Just great, right? I think I'll go out and work for someone else.... in fact, anyone else.
--Blue Girl @ 108:
The "reasons" cited are contradictory.
1. CIA personnel were involved with the production of video tapes depicting the prisoner sitting in jail. The aim was to show the tapes were evidence that nothing bad was done. The intent was to have the tapes revealed. Arguments that "nobody" imagined that the tapes might be revealed are absurd. How do they explain the tapes which were evidence of CIA respect for the prisoner's rights? No answer.
2. Concerns with a "political backlash" are not relevant. Recall, in 2005 when the tapes still existed, Rove was blabbering the GOP had permanent control over the US government. WHo, in 2005, would be concerned of "political meddling" when the GOP 2001-2005 had not investigated? Again, this is a non-sense argument.
3. Claims that the CIA wanted to "protect" the agent identities is non-sense. They were openly gagging people who knew about the Plame-outing.
What really changed: CIA-DoJ-WH-contractors realized they could not rely on state secrets/executive privilege to hide the tapes; and that someone outside the US government knew enough to ask the court to intervene and ask for specific evidence which was not supposed to exist.
This isn't about OVP, tape retention, the CIA, or politics: This is about alleged war crimes evidence which Addington allegedly failed to secure as required under 32 CFR 2800, which the ISOO in 2005 well documented had to be retained and stored. The JAGs aslo warned Addington and others in 2001 going forward that these prisoner treatment issues were subject to ICC review.
The Kansas State AG has the evidence needed to open a State AG-led effort to prosecute the President, VP, and Addington in re alleged violations of Kansas State law; and for violating the US government guarantee to the State of Kansas that the US government would provide to Kansans an enforcement mechanism. This GOP letter is the needed doorway to start an AG-led prosecution of those in the GOP who are allegedly complicit in efforts to intimidate voters, "secure" a GOP majority, and block efforts to investigate alleged war crimes by VP, President, and Addington.
Kathy in St. louis @ 113:
*The "Divine intervention" ruse was a thinly veiled attempt to explain away the organized voter fraud that the GOP engaged in in the 2 previous Presidential elections.
The Faithful will think nothing of it because of their confirmation bias, and it could happen again in '08.
BTW GO MISSOU in the Cotton Bowl!!!
Nader owed his whole campaign to the Republican party and he knew all along his being on the ballot was stealing votes away from the Democrats. Of course the Dems would try to keep him off the ballot and Nader's GOP-front Green Party would cry about it. That's not anywhere near the same thing as disenfranchising anyone who wasn't home to sign for a certified letter (ie: all people who have to work for a living and cannot take time to go to the post office after getting the little tag on the door, college students, military, anyone who moves frequently, anyone (like many people I know) who do not check their mail every day. They try to deliver the letter once (that's only if you get your mail to your door. Too bad for you if you get your mail delivered to a box in the lobby or outside of your apt building) then the postman leaves a card that gives you two days to go down to the post office to pick it up before it is returned. Also, you don't get told who the letter is from, so many people who receive the card think it's probably a creditor or court paper so signing for it is a mistake.
I remain BLUE but my emotional state is RED and I am ashamed of these people who live in my current state of Kansas. This is reprehensible by any party and the audacity of one to openly state there "success". Is this enough? How far will you allow this type of activity to go on before the masses wake up? This should be an eye openner but I think the American Public just rolled over and went back to sleep.
The KS AG is embroiled in scandals of his own. See Rogus @ 102's comment above for why the state of KS will do nothing about this. See the TPMmuckraker link from the C&L post above for part of why GOP voter caging played a role in the US Atty purge scandal and the and it is only because of the severe politicization of the DOJ, especially the civil rights division, why these caging cases have not been pursued at the Fed level as a violation of the voting rights act.
ps, I live in SE Kansas, not too far from Joplin MO, and I concur with Rogus completely.
Anonymous @ 112:
I'd be willing to bet an that he knows about it and will help launch an investigation, but unfortunately he dipped his pen in the company ink before becoming AG. As has been stated before, he's resigning because of it. AG Paul Morrison (being a Dem, elected in a highly controversial race) won't get very far making this a public issue. We need someone else.
Gov. Kathleen Sebelius (Awesome D) needs to push the hell out of this.
justabill @ 116:
I can't believe people still drag out this old chestnut about Nader being financed by the Republicans. Here's another article from Counterpunch that tries to put to rest the biggest of the lies regarding Nader's candidacy:
Who's Really in Bed with Republican Funders?
Republican Contributions: $10.7 Million for Kerry vs. $111,700 for Nader
Here are a couple of relevant excerpts from the article:
And the idea that one candidate can "steal" votes from another simply by being on the ballot is so vulgar, arrogant and insulting that I won't even comment on it further.
. . . and as long as all of us Americans sit on our fat, lazy asses, playing Xbox, listening to ipods, and allowing the government controlled mass media to continually distract us from the REAL issues, these assholes, from both parties, will continue to loot our country and rig elections. Look at what the Repubs are doing right now with the "California Counts" bullshit.
Time for a revolution people! Whatever it takes!!
Paladin @ 120:
Oops, I royally screwed up the blockquoting for my comment above terribly. It should have been just this excerpt from Paladin's comment quoted:
And the rest was mine.
My gorgeous wife just emailed all our news outlets in KC about this and guess which responded first???!!!!
The Fox Affiliate (wdaf) that just got bought out by a Republican Billionaire! Holy Shit! We're waiting to see who breaks the story...
[crickets chirping]
Paladin @ 110:
Nothing preventing them from voting for Nader as a write-in candidate. That is your weak rationalization.
Again, no one prevented anyone from voting for Nader that wanted to. If they were then that would be disenfranchisement; depriving a person of a right of citizenship, as of the right to vote. What you are going on about is ballot access. Nader discusses this in his book Crash!ng the Party pp 74-76. No where does he equate it with disenfranchisement of voters.
Yes the Republicans do play dirty tricks. Like helping Nader in Oregon according to CREW. And they seem to like using Nader as a tool against the Democratic party.
I'm thinking of sending this article to the powers-that-be at my alma mater - the University of Missouri-Kansas City, who unfortunately still let this psychopath teach law.
ski @ 126:
Between Kobach at the Law school, and Harrison the "Intelligent Design" advocate in biology, the school is developing a reputation for doling out wingnut welfare, isn't it?
Where the fuck is law enforcement? I know they are in the hood. basssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssstards
Sadly, Kobach is also a law professor at the University of Missouri - Kansas City.
Fish, if Republicans tried to help another candidate get on the ballot -- for whatever reason -- then I say "more power to them." Yes, they may have intended to play "dirty tricks" in Oregon in trying to help Nader get on the ballot, but regardless of their intent, they were at least trying to give voters access to MORE choices, not fewer. Most reasonable people call that doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
And Fish, you're quite wrong when you assert there was "Nothing preventing them from voting for Nader as a write-in candidate." For example, according to Oregon law at the time, write-in votes were not counted except as
The above is a quote from the U.S. Supreme Court case on behalf of Nader's Oregon campaign in 2004. A bit more explanation from the same filing:
Thus it is that Nader received ZERO votes for President in Oregon in 2004. Here's the link, if you're curious to learn more (for those of you whose pcs don't play well with Adobe, a warning -- it's a pdf file!):
http://www.oreg.org/nader/supreme/Reply_on_Application.pdf
And that's just Oregon. I know there are limitations to write-in votes in other states as well, though I'd have to do more research.
I apologize to everyone for helping take this discussion off course from its original topic, but I felt it necessary to respond to challenges that were issued to me regarding my statements regarding activities of the Democrats. Thing Fish has offered some reasonable arguments and I've done my best to give him (her?) a reasonable response to those concerns.
Again, my original point is that the Democrats have proven themselves capable of using tactics that are just as questionable as those employed by the Republicans in Kansas. I clearly believe their behavior constitutes an attempt to disenfranchise voters just as nefarious as this incident of "voter caging." Fish and others clearly disagree, though I'm not sure what could be added to sway anyone either way, or even if it's worth trying.
Tell teh Subcommittee on Federal Workforce Post Office and the District of Columbia to prosecute this mail fraud
Danny Davis (D-IL) [Chairman] 202-225-5006 202-225-5641 http://www.house.gov/davis/zipauth.htm
Eleanor Holmes Norton (D-DC) 202-225-8050 202-225-3002 http://www.norton.house.gov/forms/contact.html
John P. Sarbanes (D-MD) 202-225-4016 202-225-9219 http://sarbanes.house.gov/issue_subscribe.html
Elijah E. Cummings (D-MD) 202-225-4741 202-225-3178 http://www.house.gov/writerep/
Dennis J. Kucinich (D-OH) 202-225-5871 202-225-5745 http://www.house.gov/writerep/
William Lacy Clay, Jr. (D-MO) 202-225-2406 202-226-3717 http://lacyclay.house.gov/contact.htm
Stephen Lynch (D-MA) 202-225-8273 202-225-3984 stephen.lynch@mail.house.gov
Minority Members (Republicans)
Member Name DC Phone DC FAX Email
Kenny Marchant (R-TX) [Ranking Member] 202-225-6605 202-225-0074 http://www.house.gov/formmarchant/issue_subscribe.htm
John M. McHugh (R-NY) 202-225-4611 202-226-0621 http://mchugh.house.gov/zipauth.aspx
John L. Mica (R-FL) 202-225-4035 202-226-0821 http://www.house.gov/mica/messageform.shtml
Darrell Issa (R-CA) 202-225-3906 202-225-3303 http://issa.house.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=ContactInformation.EmailDarrell
Jim Jordan (R-OH) 202-225-2676 202-226-0577 http://jordan.house.gov/IMA/issue_subscribe.htm
This is one of the main tricks used to maintain the Repugnant strangle hold on Idaho politics and was in large part responsible for BILL-"SILLY"-SAlI setting in Congress today.
And no end in sight!
Far be it for me to defend any right wing hack...but just to clarify - there are 2 meanings to voter caging.
Both revolve around 'identifying' the voter (age,race, loaction, trending). All political parties/organizations do this. tThe trouble comes n what they do with t he identification.
This identification can be used to
1.disenfranchise (only the GOP does this) or 2. increase their potential for party voters
By the nature of the GOP I would automatically default to #1 - but by the tone of his letter it seems like he is referring to increasing GOP potential voters, convincing members that the State GOP is growing. He probably didn't even write the letter himself and has no idea what it meant.
And will any of this change? Americans are obsessed with "Dancing with the C list washed up stars" and other crap TV. They are clueless as to what is going on in their government. Voter caging will continue until there is a real revolution and house cleaning of the government.
when are you going to do something about it? they are getting their agendas pushed through........ are we? should we suffer while these people walk all over us? im done being a doormat...
myiq2xu @ 1:
Cheating or not, caught or not, it's illegal.
Since Nixon stepped down for not being a crook, Republicans have repeatedly demonstrate their belief and commitment to "winning at all costs" by hiding their actions from view, using parlimentary tricks and legislative traps.
By observing at their actions and behavior, it becomes clear that Republicans do not believe they are able to win a fair "fight" based on the strengths and merits of their arguments.
The Neo-Republican motto has become "always look first for an approach which tilts the playing field in our favor".
This approach explains why despite their endless spin and Orwellian rhetoric, Republicans always work first and foremost to have their finger on the scale of justice.
Actions speak louder than words, and these are the actions of a group of people who are unwilling to rely on our system of checks and balance to produce fair and equitable results specifically because they are not interested in achieving fair and equitable results.
Chris Godwin @ 136:
Actually it may be illegal, but it's sort of a legal gray area right now thanks to Bush filling the DOJ (esp the civil rights - voting div) with pro-election engineering hacks. the part of the DOJ that should be bringing these cases isn't doing so anymore If it can be proven that the caging suppresses based on race/ethnicity then it would definitely be illegal.
The Dems are trying to make it all illegal though, as it should be.
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/05/whitehouse-introduces-legislation-ou...
http://thinkprogress.org/2007/06/18/letter-griffin-caging/
Paladin @ 130:
I'm quite wrong because write-in votes wouldn't be counted because 33% were needed for the votes to be counted. How do you think they'd know if that number was met unless somebody counted votes made by voters?
Again, you are complaining about Ballot Access; not disenfranchisement. And your outright support for Republicans to break voting laws makes me strongly doubt your sincerity about voting rights. So far your only argument is that the Democratic party is just as "dirty" as the Republican party.
I just hope you realize that you are just spouting a republican talking point.
BTW
Fish, I don't think you understand. The votes are counted, they're just not attributed to any particular candidate unless the threshhold is met. If memory serves me, there were over 8,000 write-in votes in Oregon in 2004 for President. And all of them were tabulated as "other" -- not one of them was counted as a vote for any particular candidate. I'd say that's a hell a lot of voters who were disenfranchised, wouldn't you? (whether they intended to vote for Nader or not) And, as I said, that was just in Oregon.
And don't go putting words in my mouth. I don't approve of anyone breaking election law. If Republicans did so in Oregon in 2004, then they deserve to be punished for it. The same goes for Kansas in 2007.
This is no Republican talking point. This is about justice. If we're going to condemn Republicans for disenfranchising voters, then we should be just as vocal about condemning Democrats for doing the same. The fact that you're trying everything you can to rationalize away the offenses of the Democrats makes me me "doubt your sincerity about voting rights."
[deleted--please do not advocate violence on this site]
We are all caged by the two-party system. Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like "America Deceived' from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.
Last link (before Google Books bends to gov't Will and drops the title):
America Deceived (book)
OleHippieChick @ 92:
Thank you!! Let's see if Conyers runs with this one. I've really been disappointed with his performance so far as Chair.
What a pickle for my neighbors to the southwest (cheers from wv!).
Here's an as-of-yet unasked question - what demographic is the GOP targeting with this campaign? My guess would be 'anyone voting for Ron Paul'.
:)
If these jerks cheat Ron Paul supporters out of votes there is going to be hell to pay. We are overthrowing the Republican status quo and kicking the Neocons to the curb. All the corrupt Republicans and warmongers can go join a 3rd party for all I care, they will have no place in Ron Paul's party.
You guys might also be interested in a couple of followup posts about the voter suppression at EverydayCitizen.com -
Voter Caging: Reprehensible, Unethical, Unlawful
and
KS GOP Brags about Vote Caging
Great post Crooks and Liars!
This is just another reason why blacks should just start to remove themselves from this political farce. Blacks should tell the whole of the white establishment (democrats also) that if they want this political sham to themselves..they can have it and walk away. Blacks should be organizing and focusing on their needs (poverty, education, crime, drugs etc.) and tell the black politician con man and woman to jump off a cliff for they were elevated to keep them dumb and content in the midst of poverty and exploitation.
If the Venzuelan poor communities can start to organize then blacks can start the same process because, collectively, blacks have much in the way of resources. Marcus Garvey had it right all along.
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