Oh, sure, now that he's effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Not to pick on Edwards. It just kills me that the Mod Squad has spent all this time clarifying who said what about who's momma and left all the heavy lifting to "lunatic fringe" candidates like Dodd (my first choice) and Kucinich (my second.)

So says the guy that helped write part pf the Patriot Act and then voted for it.
edwards-Supporting the constitution since last week.

I donated $100 to John's campaign today. I will be doing phonebanking for him tomorrow. I wonder where our two Movie Star frontrunner candidates were when this was being debated yesterday. Hillary and Obama need to get out of the way, so John Edwards, the REAL grownup in the race, can do his job, which is representing us like a grown up. Now watch Hillary and Obama come out tomorrow, steal his thunder, and come out strong against telecom immunity. Then the MSM will say Hillary and Obama took a strong stand against Telecom immunity! What a joke!

Damn, I love this guy!

JasonS Says: Oh, sure, now that he’s effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

I wouldn't count him out just yet. At least I hope not. ObieWan...errr...John is our only hope.

Oh, sure, now that he’s effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Explain.

any truth to Edward conspiring with Hillary? what was that all about?

Yeah, what JasonS said (although I would leave out the expletive when I tell people at church what I think).

It is frustrating to watch someone finally "get it", but please don't shoot the people who just "got it", because then there's no one left except the people who haven't "gotten it" yet.

Yeah, Dodd was my first choice, and Dennis was my second choice. I'm planning to vote for someone who has "gotten it", and since that doesn't include all of the current candidates, my choice is still easier than it should be.

I wouldn't be offended if the rest of them bought a vowel, and then I could ask more of my candidate than "don't continue the march to a police state". Sadly, that's the most important thing I'm thinking about tonight.

JasonS @ 1:

Oh, sure, now that he's effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Not to pick on Edwards. It just kills me that the Mod Squad has spent all this time clarifying who said what about who's momma and left all the heavy lifting to "lunatic fringe" candidates like Dodd (my first choice) and Kucinich (my second.)

I tend to think the same way, JasonS. I'm not so sure that Edwards has nothing to lose, but I tend to have the same thoughts. Moreover, he's the one who's not in the Senate anymore. He couldn't go onto the floor in an official capacity to support Dodd if he wanted to. I really want to see Clinton and Obama stop campaigning for a while to take an important stand.

Dodd was my first choice as well. Kucinich my second as well. Would have voted for Richardson too. They always seem to drop out in some rough order my preferences, with the least desirable remaining. (Though I would never have voted for Biden in any Democratic primary.)

I suppose Edwards gets my vote on the 5th of Feb, for whatever it will be worth.

John Edwards rocks!

wijg @ 11:

Oh, sure, now that he’s effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Explain.

The anti-Edwards trolldom in full force. Who knows of paulbots, shillary's, or Obama's. Ir, else. A lot of NEGATIVE ignorant trollllzzzzzzzzzz.

paranoia @ 13:

any truth to Edward conspiring with Hillary? what was that all about?

BULLSHIT. It was.

mo_dems @ 22:

Edwards is the only Dem who can beat McCain in national poll. If Obama runs against McCain, he'll lose. Remember, this is the country that voted for George Bush twice.

No, it didn't

Sany @ 20:

Where have our two illustrous Frontrunners been on this issue. Haven't heard much from the Hillary or Obama camp on this. It's amazing. Where are all their fans. Too disappointed in them to even comment on it? You are all fools if you think Hillary or Obama are going to do anything for you. They are both taking you for a ride. This FISA Bill PROVES IT! Where are those two scared chickens. Fighting again. I suppose so. I guess John Edwards had to be the ADULT again, and get put it out in front of the MSM. I hope Edwards slams them GOOD on this during the next debate. I'd like to see both Hillary and Obama twist in the Wind over this. Oh I suppose their loyal fans will just ignore it and give them a free pass, just like everything else.

Very good question. Where the hell does Hillary and Obama stand on this? Are they not STILL ELECTED to the Senate? This is important legislation, and they can't take time from campaigning for this? So, if one of those two clowns is elected Prez, and they are up for re-election, and oh I don't know, nukes are heading at the US, they will not take time out of their campaigning to stop them or try to?? Me thinks these two just showed how deep they really do care about anything but being elected.

CappuccettoRosso @ 21:

wijg @ 11:

Oh, sure, now that he’s effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Explain.

The anti-Edwards trolldom in full force. Who knows of paulbots, shillary's, or Obama's. Ir, else. A lot of NEGATIVE ignorant trollllzzzzzzzzzz.

Ahhh... is that it? Because I'm ready to pounce, although I'm getting ready to eat dinner... Hope you're still around to cover.

fiver @ 25:

mo_dems @ 22:

Edwards is the only Dem who can beat McCain in national poll. If Obama runs against McCain, he'll lose. Remember, this is the country that voted for George Bush twice.

No, it didn't

It sure as hell didn't the first time. The first time it was the supreme court that voted him in.

Ted @ 14:

Will the American people step up for John Edwards?

I'm totally with you on the sentiment, but I've got a quibble with the way you put it. I support Edwards because it's not about him. It's about him stepping up for us. The Clinton and Obama campaigns are all about them - their money, Hollywood friends, their turn at bat, and on it goes. They're breathing up all the air and they seem to have an "if I can't have it s/he won't get it either" attitude. I can't help but think others are getting tired of it too and will reward Edwards for bringing the focus back where it should be.

GDliberal @ 3:

So says the guy that helped write part pf the Patriot Act and then voted for it.
edwards-Supporting the constitution since last week.

Tell me: what part of it did he write? Might it be the sunset clause, which wasn't in there before?

Or maybe you'd prefer that the PA never expired, so it would be still be in force in the original form with no chance for revision.

That's your choice.

dadams @ 36:

JasonS @ 1:

Oh, sure, now that he's effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Not to pick on Edwards. It just kills me that the Mod Squad has spent all this time clarifying who said what about who's momma and left all the heavy lifting to "lunatic fringe" candidates like Dodd (my first choice) and Kucinich (my second.)

instead of being such a whiney asshole, show some balls for a candidate that has
the balls to stand up against bushco and the establishment. put that passion you
seem to have and help john edwards win. whimping out does not help anyone.

You have a very funny conception of "whiney" and "whimping out." And you have inferred all sorts of things JasonS never implied.

Edwards 08 ! Our only hope.

Unfortunately, the news won't broadcast what John Edwards is saying about wire tapping. We are reading it on crooks and liars.... most people won't read this blog.

Edwards admits his mistakes. That, in and of itself should say something. You name any other politician or pundit that has done that.

Karen @ 37:

dadams @ 36:

JasonS @ 1:

Oh, sure, now that he's effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Not to pick on Edwards. It just kills me that the Mod Squad has spent all this time clarifying who said what about who's momma and left all the heavy lifting to "lunatic fringe" candidates like Dodd (my first choice) and Kucinich (my second.)

instead of being such a whiney asshole, show some balls for a candidate that has
the balls to stand up against bushco and the establishment. put that passion you
seem to have and help john edwards win. whimping out does not help anyone.

You have a very funny conception of "whiney" and "whimping out." And you have inferred all sorts of things JasonS never implied.

just my observation. i am interested in pushing for the passion of conviction.

GET OUT AND VOTE FOR EDWARDS! AND SEND M O N E Y!

Watergate premises was that they spied on the opposition, and I would say that Bush is Nixon on steroid, and that he must of got it from the baseball team he owned.

I'm sorry, but here is the truth. I've been reading the boards. Some said that this is what it takes low blows to win elections, that people want the Clintons back in office because deep down people like this stuff, that the doodee (not the cream) floats to the top of the political toilet, that the Democrats and the Republican politicians are part and parcel floating next to each other, and that the Clintons will do and say anything, absolutely anything, to float their way back into the top of the White Bowl.

Obama is running on platform to change American politics, to try to take it out of a back alley street fight and add some rules against biting, groin shots, head butts and the like. The Clintons are doing everything they can to drag Obama back into that alley. This latest Clinton move today is really low. Hillary says Bill says he's sorry that "maybe" he went overboard in beating on Obama. It's professional alright. Professional wrestling. After all the Clinton distortions of Obama's statement about Reagan and falsely accusing Obama of making up fairytales about his superior record on the Iraq war, now Bill says he's sorry. Only he doesn't say it. His wife does. Tag team!

What makes me really sick is that the Clintons are race baiting to try to divide the electorate in South Carolina to scaremonger the white vote away from their opponent. The Clintons would love for this election to be about race and gender, old identity politics, vote for your own and screw the rest who aren't like you, because there are more women likely to vote for the Clintons than blacks likely to vote for Obama. The white women versus the blacks. Great. This sounds like race baiting in the old segregated South that the Clintons so rail against. Now that's selflessness for you! And to those who say they are no better than the Republicans, I agree that the Clintons give Karl Rove a run for his money.

You know how we know for sure the Clintons are the wrong choice? Because the New York Times endorses them. In a totally vapid and insipid piece, the NYT said they endorse the Clintons because, among other things, Hillary got it wrong on the war but somehow she is more right on the consequences of withdrawal. What the heck are they talking about?

Here is the plain truth the NYT acts like doesn't exist. Hillary Clinton totally screwed up the most important vote of her career in an admitted gigantic error in judgment. She was a sheep. The self-proclaimed "workhorse" didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate at the time, not even after the most senior Democratic Senator in military affairs personally asked her to. Unbelievably, Hillary Clinton still can't admit she made an error, much more a gigantic one.

Hillary is still spinning her reasons for voting for the resolution by saying she didn't vote for war - she says she just voted to authorize Bush to use force. She is in denial about the fact she didn't vote for another resolution that said exactly that. As for her plans to disengage in Iraq, they are no better or more clear than Obama's. And unlike Hillary who has burned every bridge with the Republicans (the latest NBC/WSJ poll today shows Obama beats McCain and Hillary does not - I wonder why), Obama could reach across the aisle and grab someone like a Colin Powell to be Secretary of State. After all, Powell said "you break it, you own it." Another run at Secretary of State could be Powell's chance to "fix it", at least a little.

So, back to the truth about the NYT with a little rant thrown in. Hey NYT, not only do you not walk on water. You often act like morons. Absolute morons. Don't believe me? Well, here's the proof. You were stupid enough to buy into the Administration's phony made up stories about WMD in Iraq. And don't tell me everybody was fooled. They weren't. McClatchy's wasn't fooled. The UN Weapons Inspector wasn't fooled. The vast majority of other nations in the world which would not go along with us into Iraq like they did in the early 1990s weren't fooled.

And worse of all NYT, you didn't even give it a college try to find the truth - your reporter Judith Miller was doinking one of the Administration's biggest felon lying lips Libby as she published whatever he and the Administration told her. Get real NYT. Wake up. It's obvious, NYT, why you forgive Hillary Clinton for making a gigantic mistake about the war and can't give Obama credit for having the foresight to be against the war from the start. You, NYT, can't come to terms with your own gigantic failure in blindly reporting lies about the war. That and the fact that you are scared of change. Those are the reasons, you self-absorbed, conceited institution.

There is definitely an element of truth to the comments of many posters in this thread. In some ways, the NYT is one of the biggest pieces of doodee that rises to the top of the Democratic Party. (Caveat: while the NYT is a big stupid, conceited piece of turd, Fox News is an even more arrogant, evil turd that intentionally distorts the news to benefit rich people, crazy neocons and their billionaire owner directly at America's expense).

Sorry to get so scatalogical, but you can't describe poo otherwise. Obama is essentially asking the Democratic Party, CAN WE FLUSH ALREADY? All of the posters on this thread are ready to push the knob on the toilet. If the Democrats don't, the Clintons are going to be floating around us for quite a while.

This is another reason why people who care should choose Edwards over Hilary or Obama.
Is he perfect? Hell no. But he's the best of the three.

Duck Soup @ 51:

Hillary Clinton totally screwed up the most important vote of her career in an admitted gigantic error in judgment. She was a sheep. The self-proclaimed "workhorse" didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate at the time, not even after the most senior Democratic Senator in military affairs personally asked her to.

Worth repeating.

Didn't even read the NIE before making a speech and voting.

JTM @ 55:

Duck Soup @ 51:

Hillary Clinton totally screwed up the most important vote of her career in an admitted gigantic error in judgment. She was a sheep. The self-proclaimed "workhorse" didn't even read the National Intelligence Estimate at the time, not even after the most senior Democratic Senator in military affairs personally asked her to.

Worth repeating.

Didn't even read the NIE before making a speech and voting.

I know. It's really kind of a "My Pet Goat" realization - Holy s#&!! This person really doesn't belong there.

Chris @ 34:

I really wish Edwards was still in the Senate so we'd know for sure. It's easier to say this when you won't have to actually back it up. I really want to like Edwards. I just wish there was some test to show that he is for real, because I'm not convinced yet.

wishy-washy NEVER does it. You'll have plenty of opportunity to ponder more as corpo-slave under corpo-preznit Shillary or Obama. If we score McInsane, have fun in Iraq, the next One Hundred Years War. Bring some California dates - they don't grow any more in Iraq.

CappuccettoRosso @ 59:

Chris @ 34:

I really wish Edwards was still in the Senate so we'd know for sure. It's easier to say this when you won't have to actually back it up. I really want to like Edwards. I just wish there was some test to show that he is for real, because I'm not convinced yet.

wishy-washy NEVER does it. You'll have plenty of opportunity to ponder more as corpo-slave under corpo-preznit Shillary or Obama. If we score McInsane, have fun in Iraq, the next One Hundred Years War. Bring some California dates - they don't grow any more in Iraq.

Someone else suggested that Edwards could be a guest speaker in the Senate against FISA on Monday. That would convince me. It's up to Edwards. I'm looking for real leadership. Not Hope(TM), and sure as HELL NOT Experience screwing us over and lawyering for WAL-MART.

Chris @ 61:

CappuccettoRosso @ 59:

Chris @ 34:

I really wish Edwards was still in the Senate so we'd know for sure. It's easier to say this when you won't have to actually back it up. I really want to like Edwards. I just wish there was some test to show that he is for real, because I'm not convinced yet.

wishy-washy NEVER does it. You'll have plenty of opportunity to ponder more as corpo-slave under corpo-preznit Shillary or Obama. If we score McInsane, have fun in Iraq, the next One Hundred Years War. Bring some California dates - they don't grow any more in Iraq.

Someone else suggested that Edwards could be a guest speaker in the Senate against FISA on Monday. That would convince me. It's up to Edwards. I'm looking for real leadership. Not Hope(TM), and sure as HELL NOT Experience screwing us over and lawyering for WAL-MART.

And, what your concerns are re: FISA and two repigs-lite: Shillary and Obama ?

It's their CURRENT JOB and duty to be/fillibuster/VOTE in DC when it happens. That's what they got ELECTED for. That's what they are PAID for. With TAXPAYERS money.

Shillary is from my state. A disaster not any senator. Occupies the slot, sucks out money. ZERO effect for NYorkers.. Got their schedule yet when they speak to it ? What's THEIR LEADERSHIP ABOUT ? I didn't see ANY yet. Frick 'n' Fraq.

Are you an Obama or Shillary's troll polluting this thread ?

Dear everyone reading this-

Is the topic still John Edwards? I say give him money and vote for him and maybe we can get an Edwards/Obama ticket and enough progressive freshman in Congress to turn over this fucking fascist, corporate, super-secretive, racist cabal of sadistic, torture-loving, homophobic, war-profiteering, scumbags. The rats (retiring GOP bag-men not blue-blood enough for the Bohemian Grove) are leaving the ship ans we can take the helm if — and this is the big "IF" — we can quit stepping on our own dick and NOT elect someone as self serving as they are.

Consider this y'all. George W Bush deep-sixed all his father's records until we're all dead so that that helped him get appointed President will go to jail. Now do we really want to invite that sort of "cover my family's ass" situation all over again? In 50 years time, between the Bush and the Clintons, Orwell's nightmare of history being rewritten before the bodies are even buried will come true.

It's clear by now that the money of the world wants McCain as President and would love a McCain vs Clinton match-up because that's his best shot for victory. War will continue. Oil will continue. Money will keep matriculating upward. The poor will keep killing each other over cocaine or food or they will drown together as the seas levels rise. The new Capital (Reaganville?) will be on an undisclosed mountain top in Wyoming or Utah or Colorado or Switzerland where the air is still clean up above the ever-more-violent weather and they can drink their filtered snow-melt and Scotch and life will be good and fuck the rest of us.

I've already mailed in my CA vote for Edwards — apparently against the better advice of everyone who has ever been on television.

Since this appears to be an elections thread instead of FISA, I responded to and added some info I found to the thread below, in the hopes of actually catching up in analyzing what is happening.

Disaffiliated (and marginally affiliated) leftists want to treat the elections as if they are a litmus test, as they do to everything. You can be their hero one day, and their enemy the next -- they have their rhetoric so highly-strung that there is no room for any political facts.

Meanwhile, they ignore the Republicans, ignore the R electorate, and act like every encounter with a businessman is to be treated like a meeting of the Jacobin club, no exceptions. And consequently they can't elect anybody, but nobody can meet the rhetorical stringency.

Assume Nader became president. If he didn't come out of a meeting with business leaders without a bloody severed head to hold high, he would be the target of every shit-flinging chimp who ever supported him. It's an impossible "BLAME SOMEBODY ELSE AND DO NOTHING" strategy that has never failed them yet.

51 Duck Soup,

Nice takedown of Hillary in support of Obama.

BTW, Obama-the guy "running on a platform to change American politics" ought to get himself back in DC on Monday to wrest back the country from lobbyists and give it back to the American people.
If not, I contend all his talk about his "platform to change American politics" is nothing but a campaign slogan.

DXWOODS @ 65:

Dear everyone reading this-

Is the topic still John Edwards? I say give him money and vote for him and maybe we can get an Edwards/Obama ticket and enough progressive freshman in Congress to turn over this fucking fascist, corporate, super-secretive, racist cabal of sadistic, torture-loving, homophobic, war-profiteering, scumbags. The rats (retiring GOP bag-men not blue-blood enough for the Bohemian Grove) are leaving the ship ans we can take the helm if — and this is the big "IF" — we can quit stepping on our own dick and NOT elect someone as self serving as they are.

Consider this y'all. George W Bush deep-sixed all his father's records until we're all dead so that that helped him get appointed President will go to jail. Now do we really want to invite that sort of "cover my family's ass" situation all over again? In 50 years time, between the Bush and the Clintons, Orwell's nightmare of history being rewritten before the bodies are even buried will come true.

It's clear by now that the money of the world wants McCain as President and would love a McCain vs Clinton match-up because that's his best shot for victory. War will continue. Oil will continue. Money will keep matriculating upward. The poor will keep killing each other over cocaine or food or they will drown together as the seas levels rise. The new Capital (Reaganville?) will be on an undisclosed mountain top in Wyoming or Utah or Colorado or Switzerland where the air is still clean up above the ever-more-violent weather and they can drink their filtered snow-melt and Scotch and life will be good and fuck the rest of us.

I've already mailed in my CA vote for Edwards — apparently against the better advice of everyone who has ever been on television.

So VERY well said !!

I thought this thread was about FISA but it seems to have degenerated into the kind of sqaballing we see at the debates. It seems all the remaining candidates say they would (if they could) vote against immunity. So fine, but that is not the real problem. It is the underlying bill, which continues the star chamber national security state. FISA is unconstitutional and the only candidate, now that DK is out, who seems to understand this is Ron Paul. Poor America!

Sara @ 58:

John @ 53:

This is another reason why people who care should choose Edwards over Hilary or Obama. Is he perfect? Hell no. But he's the best of the three.

Ditto, and

chicano2nd @ 43:

Edwards admits his mistakes. That, in and of itself should say something. You name any other politician or pundit that has done that.

Ditto.

Edwards has my vote on Feb 5.

jon @ 47:

GET OUT AND VOTE FOR EDWARDS! AND SEND M O N E Y!

Here's the info, again:

Tomorrow, Saturday, January 26, is primary day in South Carolina. With just less than 24 hours left, we need to make the final outreach push happen.

John is well positioned for a SECOND spot in SC (Rasputin's post #119) - HELP it happen !

The latest Zogby poll in South Carolina shows Edwards surging, Obama slipping, and Hillary treading water.

It IS a horse race ! Tomorrow THEY’RE OFF!!!

If you can make phone calls into South Carolina, urging folks to get out and vote on Saturday for John, please make those calls NOW. This is the time when a call urging someone to vote for John Edwards can have a powerful and positive impact.

The online phonebanking tool allows you to work at your own pace, once you are verified/ cleared by the campaign (within an hour). You can register here to do the phonebanking from YOUR HOME.

http://www.johnedwardsphonebank.com/

The calls are made only between 10 am - 9 pm EST. The system provides you with a simple script, and ONE phone number at a time - you fill in simple info after completing the call.

For those of you who live within driving distance of South Carolina, Edwards campaign can use your help on primary day -- Saturday, January 26.To find one of Edwards' South Carolina offices close to your home where your assistance can be used, please click here:

http://www.johnedwards.com/sc/offices

Every little bit of effort helps over the next 24 hours. We need to get voters to the polls to vote for John on Saturday. Your help can make the difference in bringing about a strong finish for him in this key state.

With outstanding results of January 18 netroots fundraising, if we can raise $360,000 online by January 31 -- 6 days from now -- we will have raised more money for this campaign in one month than in any previous three month period.

We're that close to setting this fundraising record for the campaign. Will you help us get there?

Click here to help us raise $360,000 for JRE

Within this SECURE LINK there is a sublink for AMERICANS living ABROAD. If you wish to have ANY country to come back to/visit, support John Edwards, the only candidate that LEADS.

Edwards is NOT a corpowhore as other candidates. All through January, you and thousands of others have made contributions to Edwards campaign -- more than half of you for the first time. Your support has allowed to put resources into South Carolina where John Edwards is going to win delegates. And your contributions have helped us get John's message out in key states that will go to the polls on February 5.

Raising $360,000 by January 31 is not only about setting a new campaign record. Most importantly, it will give us the opportunity to get into the next round of key states and buy time to broadcast spots, purchase newspaper advertisements, expand our door-to-door canvassing efforts and get phone banks up-and-running.

Please take upon the challenge to help bring in $360,000 online for John Edwards over the next 6 days !! It is your generosity that has sustained John and his campaign.

John Edwards is counting on US.
Thanks for your support!

.
KongreSS toll FREE numbers:
from justabill 1-800-Capitol-Switchboard
1-800-965-4701

Toll-free numbers for Congress

1 (800) 828 - 0498
1 (800) 459 - 1887
1 (800) 614 - 2803
1 (866) 340 - 9281
1 (866) 338 - 1015
1 (877) 851 - 6437

QuakerDave @ 4:

So says the guy that helped write part pf the Patriot Act and then voted for it.

Beat me to it. Feingold is right: this guy keeps tripping over his past. I wanted to like him, I really did...

GDliberal @ 3:

So says the guy that helped write part pf the Patriot Act and then voted for it.
edwards-Supporting the constitution since last week.

Obama railed against the Patriot Act and then turned around and voted for it. Don't believe it?

Here is the Link for the congressional record for reauthorization of the Patriot Act:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...

Please note:

Obama (D-IL), Yea

So votes for the Patriot Act are not as simple as you make out are they?

At the time that that H.R. 3162 was originally passed it was in 2001 a few months after the attacks of 9/11 and the mood of the country was noting short of paranoid. The Patriot Act was passed almost unanimously:

YEAs 98
NAYs 1
Not Voting 1

Senator Feingold, to his credit, was the only Senator in the entire Senate to vote against it. Every other Democrat in the Senate voted yea, so to try and single Edwards out and make it sound like he authored the act and went against the other Democrats is a distortion of the truth.

Here's the link for verification:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm...

Edwards was asked about this in 2003:

MOSELEY-BRAUN [to Edwards]: Ben Franklin once said, "They that can give up essential liberties to obtain a little safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." I have real concerns that the PATRIOT Act vastly expending government power of surveillance, wire taps, arbitrary detention, investigation, and arguably violates [six] amendments to the Constitution. You voted for this bill. Will you vote to repeal it, or will you vote to restore the civil liberties guaranteed to the Americans, and privacy guaranteed to the Americans by the Constitution?

EDWARDS: I share that very serious concern. [But] the problem with the PATRIOT Act is not the law itself, it's the way it's being administered, particularly by Attorney General Ashcroft. We have had consistent problems with this. It is why I have proposed taking away from the FBI the responsibility of fighting terrorism and simultaneously setting up an independent watchdog group to make sure that none of us are losing our civil liberties.
Source: [X-ref from Moseley-Braun] Democratic Debate in Columbia SC May 3, 2003

PATRIOT Act removes liberties that it's supposed to protect
Q: Do you support revision or repeal of the PATRIOT Act?

EDWARDS: I support dramatic revision of the PATRIOT Act. The last thing we should be doing is turning over our privacy, our liberties, our freedom, our constitutional rights to John Ashcroft. First, the very notion that this administration can arrest American citizens on American soil, label them an enemy combatant, put them in prison, keep them there indefinitely-this runs contrary to everything we believe in this country. The notion that they are going to libraries to find out what books people are checking out, going to book stores to find out what books are being purchased. What we have to remember-and I will when I am president-is what it is we are supposed to be fighting for, what it is we are supposed to be protecting. These very liberties, this privacy, these constitutional rights-that's what's at stake in this fight. And we cannot let people like John Ashcroft take them away in an effort to protect ourselves.
Source: Congressional Black Caucus Institute debate Sep 9, 2003

http://www.ontheissues.org/2004/John_Edwards_Civil_Rights.htm

You do realize of course that No President in our history has broken so many laws and destroyed so many other vital departments of our government like the DoJ as Bush. Many law makers at the time could not believe that he was capable of the evil acts that he has done or the laws that he has abused.

Please vote for this guy. All of the candidates are flawed, but he's been consistently the only one of the three that has been actively leading on progressive issues.

Please people of South Carolina, vote for John Edwards. He remembers that we have a document called the Constitution that was created to protect our democracy. His votes have not always been perfect but he has the strength of character to admit that he was wrong. Edwards is talking issues not catfighting. This presidential election will determine the future of this country. Vote for Edwards!

Paul in LA @ 78:

john in california @ 73:

FISA is unconstitutional

FISA is not unconstitutional. FISA has been a support to the 4th amendment throughout its existence -- L Ron Paul voted to support FISA at least twice.

Before Cheney and Bush attempted to gut FISA openly, they secretly avoided the judicial oversight and illegally engaged the giant telecoms to spy for them. Yes it was passing constitutional muster because of the judicial oversight. Bush and Cheney do not like oversight from any source. Now that they were caught doing surveillance illegally, they want retroactive immunity for those corporations that blindly conspired with them to avoid the light on how much of an attack on our Constitutional liberties they really engaged in. That is why they are trying to fend of lawsuits in real courts of law but ramrodding the new version of FISA which is the subject of this fight.

Where will Clinton and Obama be when this proposed filibuster takes place? Out campaigning no doubt.

Edwards may be late in coming to the party but no later than
HRC was in her opposition to the war. Better late than never in my opinion.

As for any action in the Senate, don't hold your breath.
Harry Reid has yet to meet a Bush proposal that that he didn't cave into, and this one will be no different.

People will generally follow if some one will step up and lead,
unfortunataly the dems. are just lacking any one who is willing to do the stepping up. What a sad and pathetic state of affairs.

[deleted - off topic]

Just one more reason to vote for Edwards.

He waits untill it becomes obvious it may actualy be an 'issue'. Funny he wasn't saying this a week or two (or three or four or five, etc.) ago. He must calculate since a few real dems are fighting it, he could pick up some quick cash and a boost at the polls. Kucinich was saying this all along...

Paul in LA @ 84:

I don't actually think Bush cares about the telecoms getting sued. His interest is in getting the Senate to concede the power.

I half agree.

(Agree) It isn't about immunity for the telecoms.

(Disagree) It's about preventing lawsuits that would expose the illegal activities of the NSA.

The one exception is Rockefeller. He is in it for the telecoms. They own him.

fiver @ 18:

Go Edwards! Where are Obama and Clinton? They actually have votes.

Good question. I wasn't considering voting for Edwards, but if Hilary and Obama don't step up to the plate on this one they will loose my vote!

JasonS @ 1:

Oh, sure, now that he's effectively out of the race and has nothing to lose, suddenly principles matter?

Not to pick on Edwards. It just kills me that the Mod Squad has spent all this time clarifying who said what about who's momma and left all the heavy lifting to "lunatic fringe" candidates like Dodd (my first choice) and Kucinich (my second.)

For you and all the others that hastily come into this kind of rubbish conclusion that there is "NOTHING TO LOSE" when standing up for the Constitution in FISA battle, or any battle for the Constitution for all matters....is greatly mistaken.

This affect every single AMERICAN. Edwards should he lose the nomination; IS NOT exempt him from "losing" his rights; as any citizens of United States, when the Constitution is reconfigured so that "OUR rights as citizens" are diminished and government can virtually can impose their will at anytime, anywhere, any place and for any reason THEY deemed without any legal recourse because in essences they are above the law and they become the judge, the jury, and prosecutors. This is a DANGEROUS precedent. This is what we are struggling with NOW.

Make NO mistake that it will never happen. If you are paying close attention, it is happening NOW, in your face, in your community, in your court rooms and in your government.

We have the Legal remedy to deal with terrorist and criminals. But issue here is if pass, we will have NO legal remedy when our rights as citizen to legal due process is TAKEN AWAY. There is a SERIOUS legal distinct differences.

Someone is gaining significant TRACTION here......and it ISN"T the CITIZENS and it ISN"T DEMOCRACY. Democracy is under alot of tension right NOW as it battles for it's own survival from those that threatens to demolish it and those that attacks Democracy.

We have already SEEN the assaults and WE have uncovered who they are. The felons sits in the highest offices in Washington D.C and their hired hit man and accomplice are the Congress and the Main-stream Media.

The lastest public figure that has been the victim of these assault dogs and political pundits are Congressman Dennis Kucinich, Congressman Ron Paul. If people do not stand up NOW and do their part in the processes; any candidate that will defend the Constitution will be defeated. The media will put a blackout (censorship) on these candidates and even go to the extent of putting out their SMEAR MACHINE. The monopoly of the news-media (print and air-waves) are in a war for control over our mind Radio and possibly Cyber space (Internet). Propaganda and censorship is the enemy of TRUTH and Democracy.

Don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet (I have not read all 90+ comments), but Rachel Maddow pointed something out on Countdown the other night. Bush is hellbent on getting the FISA law reauthorized so that he can continue warrantless wiretapping, because if Congress doesn't, then we will be at risk for a terrorist attack, or so he says.

However, he threatens to veto if the telecoms don't have immunity.

Telecoms over protecting America. Way to go, Bush.

Here's the NYT article discussion at Kos. NYT got it wrong: There are lawful ways -- under the existing FISA statutes -- to conduct this surveillance. [See comment 100, above for details.]

mo_dems @ 22:

Edwards is the only Dem who can beat McCain in national poll. If Obama runs against McCain, he'll lose. Remember, this is the country that voted for George Bush twice.

Are there poll numbers to back that up? Would you post the link?
Thanks!