MoveOn endorses Barack Obama!
Their members have voted and MoveOn has come out in support of Barack Obama:
With hundreds of thousands of ballots cast across the country, for the first time in MoveOn's history, we've voted together to endorse a presidential candidate in the primary. That candidate is Barack Obama.
We know how to roll up our sleeves and win elections, and if we all pitch in together between now and Tuesday, we can help Sen. Obama win the biggest primary day in American history.
To be clear, we won't always agree with all of Obama's positions. And MoveOn members said overwhelmingly that, regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, we'll work hard to win the White House in 2008. Whatever happens in the primary, we'll push the Democratic nominee to campaign progressively and then we'll push them to fulfill their promises after they win...read on
And then Bill O'Reilly's head exploded...
I have to concur... I don't agree with him 100%... But I can support him long before I support that other one...
And who knows.. Perhaps Barack is HUMAN enough to end the War on Drugs-... Which if he did that alone it would make him the greatest president since Roosevelt.
Thank you MoveOn. Before the ignorant trolls come out from the backwoods, as a liberal, I appreciate any organizations dedicated to progressive causes.
I can get behind Obama... I can even ALMOST get excited about him...
Perhaps he is human enough to end the travesty against humanity known as the War on Drugs...
It looks like I'm finally going to have to vote for that yellow dog.
I will never vote for Obama.
The South Carolina primary made my stomach turn.
Mr. Obama is my senator. I voted for him. Since then, I find him to be a lightweight whiner who does not tell the truth. Look up that land deal - find the numbers - you'll see he got a deal from his slum lord friend of 20 years "Tony" Rezko.
Don' t buy Obama's story and/or excuse about what happened to get land he wanted a a "special" price. Be a reporter. Look up the facts. Obama is a Chicago politician. His organiztion is sitting on the lap of Daley's machine. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. This is the Daley that stoop up and booed
Senator Abraham Ribicoff at the 1968 Democratic Convetion when Ribacoff said that the Chicago police were using "gestapo tactics" to stop anti-war dissent in the City of Chicago
Obama brags that he was against the war from the beginning. So was I. I marched. I went door to door. I went to the anti-war rallies. I didn't see him. I didn't here about him. I saw a lot of reverends and politicians - but not Obama. Jesse Jackson marched with us. Obama wasn't around. What did he do to help stop the war? I know hat since he's been elected to the senate, he has voted to fund the war, not end it.
Bill Clinton was right about him. His anti-war record is a fairy tale. It's always easy to say you wouldn't have done something when you weren't asked for to vote.
Obama said he got into the presidential race to raise the level of discourse. All I've seen him do is divide and attack anyone who disagreed with him. I realize that this is the way politics proceeds. But Obama swore not to be this kind of politician. I guesss he's just an old pol after all. An old old - like all the rest of the Democrats and Republicans in the Presidental ace. Nope - nothing new here.
Obama has lost my support forever. If he wins the nomination. I will vote for Nader. Ralph Nader has spent his life fighting for justice for the lower and middle classes. He's done many good things to help the poor, and he works very hard to help the unions. He's a better man than Obama
If Obama is nominated for anything, I will not work for the party or donate to it.
Obama - blah. He's a mile wide and an inch deep.
I'd cut off my hand before I voted Republian, so I guess Mr. Nader may end up with at least one vote Cook County.
The fact that one of my heros, Ted Kennedy, is supporting him makes me feel as if he brothers were killed for nothing. Obama is no MLK. He's not even Muhammed Ali.
I too announce, casper46 endorses Barack Obama. Hope that settles it once and for all. lol
How long till Bill suggests that Obama got the endorsement only because he's black.
Now the right will remind everyone of the general betray-us ad. They'll try now to connect Barack with that ad via MoveOn.
As of now the right is so busy trying to figure out what they are going to do with McCain they may not even have time to notice. I'm loving what Joe Scarborough said this morning that no repub can win without James Dobson's stamp of approval. Is that what the republican party has come down to?
MoveOn made a good choice!
casper46 @ 6:
Wow...If the MoveOn endorsement wasn't bad enuff. Geez.
double post due to server error...
oh and End the war on drugs...
Some key endorsements are lining up behind Obama: Caroline Kennedy, Senator Ted Kennedy, Kansas Governor Kathleen Sebelius, Arizona Governor Janet Napolitano, Elizabeth Moynihan, Oprah, Senator Kerry, Senator Claire McCaskill and many others of note.
Endorsements aren't everything, but when so many key stalwarts believe in Obama as the best choice for President on Day 1, it's a powerful message of confidence.
"To be clear, we won’t always agree with all of Obama’s positions. And MoveOn members said overwhelmingly that, regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, we’ll work hard to win the White House in 2008."
I wish all Obama supports could say the same.
Actually, I think this type of organization would have more leverage if they did not endorse a candidate.
I will be voting for Barack this Tuesday.
Chris Gamble @ 12:
I'll say it. Do I count? :)
It looks like I'm finally going to have to vote for that yellow dog.
I will never vote for Obama.
Obama brags that he was against the war from the beginning. So was I. I marched. I went door to door. I went to the anti-war rallies. I didn't see him. I didn't here about him. I saw a lot of reverends and politicians - but not Obama. Jesse Jackson marched with us. Obama wasn't around. What did he do to help stop the war? I know hat since he's been elected to the senate, he has voted to fund the war, not end it.
Bill Clinton was right about him. His anti-war record is a fairy tale. It's always easy to say you wouldn't have done something when you weren't asked for to vote.
If Obama he wins the nomination. I will vote for Nader. Ralph Nader has spent his life fighting for justice for the lower and middle classes. He's done many good things to help the poor, and he works very hard to help the unions. He's a better man than Obama
If Obama is nominated for anything, I will not work for the party or donate to it.
Obama - blah. He's a mile wide and an inch deep.
I'd cut off my hand before I voted Republian, so I guess Mr. Nader may end up with at least one vote Cook County.
The fact that one of my heros, Ted Kennedy, is supporting him makes me feel as if he brothers were killed for nothing. Obama is no MLK. He's not even Muhammed Ali.
Albatross @ 1:
SOROOOOOS!
* shakes fist at sky *
As a Move-on member who voted for Obama I'm already seeing the hand-wringing over how the Repugs will use the Betrayus fuss against him should he be the nominee.
Let's not forget the amazing ability of Move-on to network and mobilize it's members in support of a candidate or issue.
It wasn't the DLC who got me manning the phones in 2006, it was Move-on. Their volunteer network is passionate and committed and willing to do the heavy lifting.
MOOaCOW @ 5:
Oh boo hoo. Obama's not anti war enough for you. So you vote for Nader. Real smart.
Dear mooCow, your "concern" is very moooving.
reduke@10 Hey psycho! The war on drugs should start with you and your incoherent post.
How does MoveOn, an allegedly progressive organization, attempt to justify endorsing Obama when Obama has consistently voted to continue funding the occupation? Obama's health care plan keeps the insurance companies firmly in the equation, thus placing profit over people. Obama has not supported Kucinich's proposal to impeach Cheney. Obama is supposed to be an agent of change? A more appropriate moniker would be an agent for gullibility. With friends like MoveOn, those on the left should not have to look very far to find its enemies.
I cancelled my membership...I have been a member for five years and the traitors are getting any more money from me. And I know over 1,000 at least seniors in our group across the USA who are cancelling also.
Boy, MoveOn really brings out the trolls.
Due to my doubts about his history, I've been trucking around the tubes, and I cannot find much information on Obama's accomplishments.
So to all the Obama supporters, what has he DONE to earn such broad support? What are the great works to his credit?
Just asking.
I will say the same thing I said earlier today. Next Tuesday I was going to vote for Edwards. I will now vote for Obama. I will support and vote for who ever wins on the Democratic side. I will not hate Hillary Clinton, sorry, I guess that doesn't make me a good Internet progressive. I am sick and tired of the my way or the high way additude of the so-called progressives on line. John Amato has lately been trying to say the same thing. "Try to remember who the bad guys are". The difference between the Fascists Republicans and Democrats is miles and miles wide.
MOOaCOW @ 5:
Ok, I agree about Obama being a lightweight but you write a very funny line I see all the time here in one form or another as one after another people's candidates bit the dust:
"If Obama is nominated for anything, I will not work for the party or donate to it."
And believe me, "MOO", this is not directed only at you but really....Nobody cares if you drop out of the political scene. That "threat" (written here for months over and over ad nauseum) is simply tiresome, trite and irrelevant.
I sense growing momentum - similar to McCain's.
Will it be enough?
So, its strange that a PAC would endorse someone who has made his stance against PACs very clear. He has stated several times he doesn't accept PAC money.
Mr Oprabama...the 'uniter'? Who expects everyone else's supporters to back him, but not any other candidate should they win the nomination?
Erroll @ 21:
Move-on had it's members vote on the two remaining Democratic candidates. It's members overwhelmingly voted for Obama, 70%. It was not a decision on the part of the Move-on organizers. It was all of us. We also pledged to support whoever wins the Dem primary in the general election.
I honestly don't know if this helps or hurts Obama.
RayC @ 25:
AMEN, Brother.
MOOaCOW @ 5:
Your passionate idealism is appreciated. Do you think Nader can win? If not, is Obama worse than McInane/Willard/(any regressitard's name here)? Isn't some progress better than regress?
Three times I got an e-mail reminding me to vote. Three times I voted to delay endorsement, which was one of three choices. Here are the results of the "poll," as posted by MoveOn:
Vote results:
Obama, 197,444, 70.4%
Clinton, 83,084, 29.6%
Note that the percentages add up to 100 %. In other words, you're supposed to believe that no one voted to delay an endorsement. In fact, from these results, you'd never know "delay," was an option.
I wrote to MoveOn and suggested that if they're going to become an arm of the Obama campaign, they should conduct more explicit polls:
"Barack Obama: Great Senator, or greatest Senator EVER?"
"Obama: Bigger than Jesus?" This one comes with ONLY a place to respond "yes."
I endorse Clinton because she is positioned strong on national security. The issue that decided the last two elections.
This will lose the Independent voters for Obama, they will go to Clinton.
Go Obama!
Serious. Epic. w00t!
Marge @ 22:
they took a vote, and moveon members voted for him.
Vote results
Obama: 197,444 - 70.4%
Clinton: 83,084 - 29.6%
look at all those traitors!
Well, we can all see it now: the "General Betrayus" headline, and then morph to Obama and the Moveon.org endorsement.....Sorry to say, but the Moveon.org audience doesn't need a poll or a public announcement of its "first ever" endorsement of a candidate, but the Repugs sure are grateful for handing them this hot-button (and it is in many parts of the country) gift . And I emailed Moveon with just this concern and got no answer, so, that's life I guess.
On the other hand, I hope the general public is smart enough to realize who the real bad guys are.....
getalife @ 35:
Unless there is another attack on American soil the economy will be the major issue come November given the plummeting value of homes, IRA's, 401ks, gas and food prices.
Also, Independents will more likely vote for McCain than Clinton in the general. Obama is more likely to gain from Independents should he be the nominee.
Hey Marge, I'm technically a senior....that old AARP thing. Please inform us how you discovered what over 1,000 of us are doing. I'd like to join that discussion group. And please, lay off the too-easy use of the word "traitor". That's language that more properly belongs in the rhetoric of the wingnuts.
A lot of Clinton supporters would go to John McCain if Obama gets the nomination... Obama is just to liberal for some and they see John McCain as a moderate.. Therefore the people that are supporting Hillary that don't want to get anymore liberal than her would turn to someone more conservative but is still a moderate....
Obama - blah. He’s a mile wide and an inch deep.
Well, at least he didn't vote with the Rethugs in labelling the Iranian military a 'terrorist' organization. My New York senators did.
With Edwards gone, expect a big Obama bump. And expect Connecticut and Massachusetts to go his way.
1st Republic 14th Star @ 34:
How odd, my e-mail from Move-on never mentioned a third option. Only the two candidates.
MOOaCOW @ 5:
Why waste the time voting for Nader, who hasn't even declared that he is going to run. Just vote repug and show us how you really feel. The results will be the same.
As a MoveOn member who voted, it came down to the fact that Obama can win in November. Clinton cannot.
Great to see fellow members felt the same way.
Marge @ 22:
Hillary stood up for MoveOn in the Senate; Obama was a no show (not present).
I prefer Obama, but I will vote for Clinton if she is nominated.
That's because I care more about saving America from the neocons than I do about getting in an ideological purity snit and stamping my feet in indignation.
If you don't vote for the Democratic candidate in the next election, you're no better than a neocon. Anne Coulter is better than you.
Several Supreme Court nominations are likely to happen in the next four or eight years. And the President appoints dozens and dozens of important governmental positions, from judges to Cabinet heads. But you'd let a Republican make those nominations because you can't seem to differentiate politics from ideology, preference from compromise.
Neither Democratic nominee will give me EVERYTHING I want, but the Republican nominee will give me NOTHING I want.
So you "my way or the highway" types can just pick up your balls and stomp home.
I still don't know what the man stand for. All I ever hear is he talk about change but I have no clue what he wants to change or how he plans on changing it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Number of Operations Iraq Freedom and Enduring Freedom casualties
as confirmed by U.S. Central Command: 4404
Erroll, with respect to Kucinich's proposal to impeach, remember that Obama is in the other chamber. Not much he could have done.
And did MooCow actually try to smear Obama by connecting him to somebody booing somebody in 1968? That's pretty sad.
As a MoveOn member and contributor who voted, it came down to the simple fact that Obama can win in November, Clinton cannot.
Great to see so many fellow members agreed.
MooaCow@5 I can't believe you crazy ass Nader supporters! Ralph Nader is a PIMP. He took Repub hush/obstruction money in 2004 knowing he was a political monkey wrench for them. If that man truly had any integrity, he would have said no thanks to the RNC and their dirty cash.
Due to my doubts about his history, I’ve been trucking around the tubes, and I cannot find much information on Obama’s accomplishments.
So to all the Obama supporters, what has he DONE to earn such broad support? What are the great works to his credit?
Just asking.
And what, exactly, has Hillary done? Graduating from Wellsley, becoming a lawyer, becoming 50% of a power political couple and having no vision. From that perspective, Hillary and Obama are very similar. Great private educations. Solid legal credentials. Political ambition.
But Obama is a hair more progresive than Hillary. And like Hillary, he earned a perfect score from Planned Parenthood. The guy has cred. And naiive as it may be, when he personally travels to do diplomacy, people in other nations are going to be impressed.
BubbaJudge @ 50:
I have to agree although a Clinton/Obama ticket does have some appeal.
MoveOn was right about Betrayus. He was just going to rubber stamp a White House written report.
RayC @ 25:
You got that right, RayC!
Support the Democratic ticket -- even if it isn't your friggin' ideal perfect wonderful choice of candidates.
I was against MoveOn endorsing either candidate. Hilary is pro war but atleast she voted to defend MoveOns first amendment rights during the Petraeus ad. Obama was a no show. Talk is cheap.
Think maybe trollCow rejoined the herd?
Well, I'm one MoveOn member who did not vote. They sent me an email dated Thursday morning, saying I had until Friday at 11:00 am Eastern to vote. I did not receive the email until this morning (Friday). And, being on the west coast, voting had already closed by the time I got around to reading the email . . . while 280,000 votes is impressive, I wonder how many more of us were disenfranchised by how they handled the voting.
Simon White-Thatch Potentloins @ 55:
Ew! Your name made me throw up in my mouth a little bit...
We will not be donating to MoveOn anymore. We are voting for intelligence and experience. We are voting for Hillary Clinton. This is not the time to be trying out a charming novice.
Glad my vote counted, and two checks are already in the mail - to Obama and moveon.org!
John & Gail @ 60:
No, this is a better time to try out a former 'first lady' whose mere name brings froth to the mouths of her many detractors.
John & Gail @ 60:
She doesn't need it, not after Coulter endorsed her.
next endorsement.. freedomwatch!
Chris Gamble @ 12:
keep wishing.
I can vote for Hillary or Barack. That's the great thing about the democratic party, we don't have to wait for any group or any one person to tell us who to vote for. We vote the way we see fit. Yeah, getting dems to vote for one particular candidate is like herding cats and damn it, I'm proud of that. We are independent thinkers when it comes to our candidates. We can't be led around by the nose by such as Dobson or Limbaugh. Right now, I'm proud of the party and the candidates as well.
goatsage @ 53:
A Clinton/Obama ticket or an Obama/Clinton would never happen. Obama would never choose Hillary because it fly's in the face of "moving forward" and "the future" themes. Hillary would never select Obama becuase the Clintons hold grudges and are petty. Obama gave Clinton a much harder time on the way to her coronation than she had planned on.
The republicans may try to morph Obama and the betray-us ad but if you really want to play hardball, show who the KKK and white supremacist groups support. Don't back down to these asshole republicans.
unfrozencaveman @ 66:
Never say never....
unfrozencaveman @ 66:
Obama/Edwards 08! Take it to the bank.
Patrick Kline @ 56:
Obama can't be bothered to actually VOTE! He's too busy being the 'uniter'!
He may make a nice VP, though.
Dhalgren Says:
How does that answer my question? Hillary has nothing to do with whether or not Obama has accomplishments that warrant any support. So, what has Obama done that leads to the belief that he would be a good president?
I wish Move On would have let it's supporters know prior to us writing checks to them. I never knew they would endorse a candidate at this late stage in the game.
This is the reason, I am not giving any more money to any of these fuckers cause they don't do shit and misrepresent themselves.
Where was the effort to stop the war? How many people sent them money only to see them wuss out and disappear.
Fuck MOVE On ........How fucking dare they rip us off.
Geo @ 11:
Endorsements, by whomever and for whoever, don't mean shit to me. I vote for the
person who can best represent my views.
If you are looking for the perfect candidate, I'm afraid you are out of luck. Jesus wasn't born in the U.S. so he cannot run for president.
pissed off patricia @ 65:
Hear, hear, p.o.p.
I'm a MoveOn member. If Obamma wants my vote, he'd needs to start talking about what he's going to do to restore our liberties, reverse the advance of totalitarian fascism, get us totally out of Iraq (NOW) and just exactly what his plan is for taking America back from the corporations and banks. Otherwise, he can kiss my natural black ass.
As a Move On member I supported Edwards. Then voted for Obama in their election. I will vote for the Democratic nominee in November(whoever that may be).
BubbaJudge @ 45:
So you just make up "facts," then? Guess you should have been in the latest Republican debate... or in the current administration.
Michelle @ 71:
He has brought a shitload of people together in support of him. You gotta give him some credit for that. If he can unite that many Americans at a time like this, he just might be able to bring other countries around to seeing that we as Americans are truly good people who have been led by a monster. He's not of the ilk that shoots first and tries to justify it later. We need someone now who can talk to people. Yeah, talk is cheap, but since our country is financially broke right now, what can some honest talk hurt? Diplomacy is needed right now and needed badly.
This doesnt change my feeling for him at all. I don't like him. I was not going to vote for him anyway. I was torn between Edwards and Clinton but Edwards is gone now. I will vote for whichever Dem gets the nomination but honestly if it's him I'll still vote for him but I won't be happy about it.
Paul @ 76:
Paul, it sound like you would love Ron Paul.
[Don't try to derail this thread. Keep it on topic. Consider this a warning. Site Monitor]
This is a stupid move from MoveOn. They are causing a rift among Democrats. They will lose contributions which could have been important in the November election. They should be representing all Democrats, not their chosen one. We didn't even hear about this silly vote until it was over. Republicans must be loving this farce.
Michelle @ 24:
I'll tell you what he did in terms of what he didn't do. He didn't support the war that has wasted some 4000 lives.
1. He had the courage of his convictions to stand against the war in a very lonely place when people were chumping at the bit for this dumb war.
2. Obama didn't vote for that dumb bankruptcy bill and Hillary did. That would have undermined his core principle that poverty should be scorched from this country. Clinton and Edwards did vote for that bankruptcy bill and for that they don't get my vote.
3. He didn't vote at all for the Kyle/Lieberman bill. That may have been politically astute because he can't come back to haunt him. Better to not have voted than to have voted for it. Clinton voted for this bill. Go to his website there is a whole list of his accomplishments.
4. The biggest accomplishment I can see is that he has "good" common sense where the other candidates in either party use common sense to no sense at all.
Michelle @ 71:
There's no correlation between career "accomplishments" and success as U.S. President. Some Presidents simply rise to the occasion and others don't. There is no sound or proven way to predict how someone will respond under the tremendous pressure of being President. The best we can do is go back and look for clues from past Presidential Success/Failures and apply the lessons to the current crop. That said, perhaps Obama's biggest accomplishment is bring new people into the voting booths. That is something that people have been trying to do for years, only Obama made it happen.
Heather & Mark @ 82:
Republicans aren't happy about anything. Look at who they have running.
1st Republic 14th Star @ 34:
I got an email, and I did not see delay as an option. I would have voted delay had I seen it.
Breaking news:
LA Times to endorse Obama. The list keeps growing.
MoveOn.org, the Kennedys, and now the LA Times.
I'm not gonna like, I'm happy about this.
The news is on Barack's campaign page if you don't believe me.
Well, I went ahead and participated in the MoveOn vote, and voted for Obama, but I can see why some members felt that they shouldn't endorse a candidate. It was agreed that only a 2/3 majority would trigger an endorsement, but I think maybe they should have let their members respectfully disagree and continue to represent us all in our choice. It wouldn't have kept most of us from supporting the Democratic nominee in the end.
Cripes...
Reading this thread is harshing my buzz from last night's debate...someone even had to bring up fucking NADER. If Nader ever wanted to be president, I wouldn't care how many times he ran or what kind of "spoiler roll" he played. What pisses me off is that the guy only seems to run to make some sort of a point rather than seriously try to become prez and create some change. He's like some dick who jumps into a marathon in the last mile and spends the entire time throwing elbows and pulling on the elite runners' jerseys. If he really wants to win, he might have tried running from the beginning.
In the field of remaining candidates, Obama is the best bet.
Moveon has a great organization and a good machine.
The endorsement itself might irritate Bush deadenders, but they will go after ANYONE who is not George Bush or running as a George Bush substitute. I mean, what are they gonna do? All five thousand of them are going to start trolling websites? A few of them might play an extra round of the Gears of War or eat some more Doritos than usual. Maybe a couple party operatives will get arrested in a public bathroom. But they were probably already doing that, unfortunately.
Moveon's publicity machine will do Obama a ton of good.
Breaking news:
LA Times to endorse Obama. The list keeps growing.
MoveOn.org, the Kennedys, and now the LA Times.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm happy about this.
The news is on Barack's campaign page if you don't believe me.
Steve Jankowski @ 87:
Really? That settles it: I'm voting Clinton.
(my snark at any from of MSM)
Michelle @ 24:
The following might answer some of your questions:
http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2007/street0207.html
MoveOn.org is so 2004. Irrelevant.
Up until 7 years ago, I never truly believed that my vote made a difference. Sure I voted pretty much a straight party ticket (Democrat) but win or lose, the quality of my life was not altered. The past seven years have shown me that every vote is important and must be counted (and how can we not count Florida again?) I don't want another lite weight, charismatic president with a swagger. Part time state legislator or do nothing governor of Texas, both don't carry a lot of weight. The country is in serious trouble, look past the smooth talk and vote for someone who's talking specifics. Obama is good with a prepared speech and a teleprompter but when asked off the cuff questions, it's Hilary who knows the issues and is prepared. You guys were probably the same kids in 3rd grade who hated the smart girl because she made you feel inferior - Hilary is that smart girl, it's time to get over your fear of girls.
Senator Obama is a great speaker and says all the right things. I respect MoveOn's opinion but they have to remember people can think and vote for themselves. I'm an African American and I'm proud of Senator Obama but I voted for an experienced qualified candidate not by color or sex or the cheering crowd. We have big problems and we need a President with years of experience and qualifications not a candidate who is a freshman Senator with John Kerry and Ted Kennedy trying to live through Obama.
McCain had to publicly put Obama in his place when he make a mistake during his first term as Senator. Yes while Obama is feeling his way around and making mistakes I notice Kerry and Kennedy were no where to be found until Obama got votes in Iowa and South Carolina.
Obama is great at speaking but it doesn't change the fact he's a freshman Senator.
trixr4kids @ 80:
I like Edwards too. I like Clinton too. But Obama did something that the other candidates didn't do which was undermine their own core principles of taking care of the less fortunate. This is probably why Move On edorsed Obama. How did they undermine their core beliefs. They decided to be washington insiders with people's lives.
1. Clinton and Edwards authorized war. If your overriding belief is taking care of the people of this country then you wouldn't send those very same people you are championing to war on the premise of regime change or for political expediency or because you didn't bother to read the IWA. Kucinch did read it. Obama Spoke against it when it was unpopular to do se.
2. Clinton and Edwards voted for a dubious bankruptcy bill. This was confounding. I could see Clinton voting for it but Edwards. His entire life has been about pullling people out of poverty and yet he signed onto it without understanding how that would affect poor people. Obama voted against it. That was very appropriate and that showed me something about how he feels about the issue of poverty.
3. The kyle/Lieberman amendment. Essentially it was a first step toward Bush's thirst to continue his war mongering ways. She voted for it. Obama didn't even vote. That may have been political on his part but a no vote is better than a yes vote for a recipe for disaster.
In the end, I think Move On sees Hillary as a hawk. She takes lobbyist money. Obama doesn't. Hillary doesn't seem to use "good" common sense. Only the common sense for the purpose of looking strong and tough. Haven't we had enough of the cowboy mentality?
So is this endorsement really trying to imply that it has 3million members and they voted to endorse Obama but only about 300,000 voted under what some people think are questionnable practices? Does the fact that the name Moveon is one of the three that republicans use to highlight the worst of the democrats - MoveOn, Senator Ted Kennedy and George Soros? Seems all three are behind Obama now, so isn't all this hoopla actually detrimental? If Obama wants to be know as the visionary and second coming of MLK and JFK, then why is it seen as advantageous to have the 3 most hated entities supporting him? Or is the visionary who sends out health care mailers today which some complain were the dirtiest brought against the changes discussed in 1993 really using visionary and change as the latest tool on his quick rise to the top and what he feels might just get him there with not much experience under his belt? I thought the job of being President of the US of A was more than a beauty contest. Maybe the mantra of being a uniter and not a divider and wanting to be bipartisan and change Washington that we all heard 8 years and that has accomplished nothing will be successful a second time? Isn't that the old adage of doing the same wrong thing twice and expecting a different outcome?
Nancy @ 95:
I see, so you're comparing George Bush to Obama. What on earth do George Bush and Obama have in common? Seriously, if anything, they are polar opposites in every way (which is exactly what we need). The truth is George Bush has a lot more in common with Hillary Clinton. Power family, scorched-earth approach to politics, and cynical manipulation of the media. Also, can't speak for anyone else, but my own distaste for Hillary has nothing to do with her being a woman. That's always the convenient scapegoat.
Any worthwhile progressive organization would require members to page through a few educational non biased pages containing the candidates' history before allowing them to vote on an endorsement that will no doubt make national news. Voting recods, stances on the isses, you know, something other than just names and little cirles to click on. And tell me how many people voted multiple times by siging up multiple accounts.
Had memebr actually educated themselves on the issues and voting records, they probably would have either voted for clinton or just clicked "present". Or maybe they shoulld have just had a choice between clinton and Exelon corporation - the nuclear corporate hand feeding the bottle to Obama.
Edwards was our best choice, but Clinton is the best we have left.
Those who actually consider themselves to be on the left and are caught up in Obamamania may wish to take a deep breath and try, if possible, to look critically at what Obama stands for. This alleged agent for change has suggested bombing Pakistan, leaving troops not only in Iraq but, like many a Republican, has amazingly advocated increasing the troop level in Afghanistan [not exactly the best way of winning the hearts and minds of the Iraqis and Afghanis], supports Israeli aggression against Lebanon and Palestine, believes in keeping the nuclear option open vis a vis Iran, and advocates the building of nuclear power plants. He is also against the idea of universal health care, at least in the form of a single payer system which does not involve the profit making presence of the insurance companies. On closer inspection, it certainly appears that the savior of the Democratic party is more the agent of the status quo than he is the agent of change.
Good news! Now Barack will be associated with the General Betray Us ad. A lot of people never heard of MoveOn until that ad. Now MoveOn is radioactive as far as the right wing is concerned. This will stir them up. Barack who talks the anti-war talk but doesn't walk the funding walk, up against McCain, a bona fide veteran.
Remember that Hillary specifically declined to condemn MoveOn. What did Barack do? Anything? Vote present?
Ooops. Posted too fast. I'm wrong. I think she did join in the condemnation of the ad. Is there anyone who remembers how the votes went down? How did the rest of Congress vote?
Heather & Mark @ 82:
I was thinking the same thing actually. For a united Democrats site, it seems odd they would endorse anyone yet, if at all. Thought they were an organization dedicated to rights not just another political shill. What is with all these organizations that start out with great intents and purposes and get sidetracked to sounding JUST LIKE the political crap they hate?
Somebody asked for reasons to vote for Obama. Here are my thoughts on it.
I was an Edwards supporter, and have been completely frustrated at the way that Clinton and Obama were focused on to the exclusion of all the other candidates. So now we don't have a truly progressive candidate. But that doesn't mean I'm dropping out of the process. I'm not an idiot.
So the question becomes, which of the two that are left should I support? It's a very tough call.
Both seem intelligent and capable. Obama has tons of charisma but a vagueness in his message that is off-putting for a pragmatist like me. Clinton, on the other hand, comes across as kind of graceless most of the time, then reveals a razor wit and sense of humor. So she's no slouch in the charm department when she relaxes a little. Plus she has detailed concrete plans and describes them in ways that make sense to me. Particularly as regards health care, her ideas are superior to Obama's.
But those plans, however detailed and workable they might be, are for domestic initiatives that she will have to work out in collaboration with Congress. So she won't be able to actually get the details the way she would like them, anyway. In the foreign relations field, Obama has a less hawkish stance, which is very important to me. Though Clinton would no doubt be a good diplomat, Obama has made a more vocal commitment to diplomacy, emphasizing repeatedly that he believes in talking with enemies as well as friends. And it is in foreign relations policy that a president really can carry out platform promises. Not that they do carry them out, but they can, theoretically.
Then there's the question of electability. Some have said that animosity toward Clinton will lose her votes, but I think those are mostly votes no Democrat could win, anyway. But I think there is something to the claim that Obama can bring out the infrequent or first time voters. He's fun, he's cool, he's the next big thing. Dumb reasons to vote, but a lot of people do it.
So, in the end, unless someone convinces me otherwise (which is a definite possibility), I'll probably caucus for Obama. I'd rather be there for Edwards. It's a razor thin edge he has for me. But, yeah, Obama I guess.
I think it's kinda funny how Hillary supporters claim that any Dems who don't vote for Clinton are sexist pigs, or anti-feminist.
Note to Hillary supporters: Us Obama supporters (myself included) just happen to agree with his politics more than Hillary's. Is there anything wrong with that?
I don't mind a woman president, but right now, I greatly prefer Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton. And it's not because of his gender, either.
First Kennedy now this, how does he expect to get the independent voters??
And MoveOn members said overwhelmingly that, regardless of who wins the Democratic nomination, we’ll work hard to win the White House in 2008.
not me.
Straight Shooter @ 102:
09/20/2007 Expressing Support for General Petraeus and All Members of the Armed Forces NV
Pissed off Patricia says:
"Now the right will remind everyone of the general betray-us ad. They'll try now to connect Barack with that ad via MoveOn."
Which is problematic considering they all seem to like him so much.
Doesn't look like many in this crowd changed their minds because of MoveOn's endorsement....
Clinton has been a politician for 35 years. Nothing really changed that didn't go back to the way it usually works in washington. A politician who we thought could be a great president and who may very well be the nominee in clinton still did what inside washington politicians ursually do. Take care of their carreers. With her war vote though, it killed people, it hurt people, scared people for life. Hillary voted for this war. How is she an affective leader by doing this? She voted for the bankruptcy bill when she says she wants to champion the urgent cause of eliminating poverty. Someone tell me how she's going to lead this country by using her votes in this way.
Feh.
Neither of these "candidates of change" have said anything particularly profound thus far. I don't see them changing much of anything in the long run, except for bringing some element of dignity back to the office of the president.
Okay. Found it. Hillary did not vote yea on the Cornyn amendment. Barack didn't vote, but he offered his usual stirring words:
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=MoveOn_and_the_U.S._Congress
Of course, Barack did go this far:
some of Barack's votes:
Congressional Affairs
Date Bill Title Vote
09/20/2007 Expressing Support for General Petraeus and All Members of the Armed Forces NV
09/20/2007 Expressing Support for All Men and Women in the U.S. Armed Forces Y
09/18/2007 District of Columbia House Voting Rights Act of 2007 Y
08/02/2007 Lobbying and Donation Regulations Y
11/10/2005 Investigating Contracts in Iraq Amendment Y
10/18/2005 Congressional Pay Raise Amendment Y
09/15/2005 Financial Relief For Hurricane Katrina Victims Amend Y
09/14/2005 Congressional Commission on Hurricane Katrina Y
09/14/2005 Special Committee on Contracts in Afghanistan and Iraq Y
Oh oh. Now no MoveOn member will be able to board an aircraft without first baring his/her ass and having a colonoscope jammed up it, transmitting the picture directly to NSA headquarters in the basement of the Washington Monument, with a copy to the Oval Office.
And their names are being relabeled on the DHS watch list, from 'Questionable, hold for interrogation', to 'YOU CAUGHT ONE, IMMEDIATE GITMO RENDITION AUTHORIZED'.
CoIntelPro @ 109:
Thanks, CoIntel. I was researching while you already had the answer. :)
this thread is proof of how the democrats lose. just like obama, the left lets the tight control the dialogue, the terminology and the argument. they even attack progressives. pathetic.
Only difference I saw at debates last night. Hillary wants to force all citizens to have healthcare premiums of some kind. Obama wants similar. Both say out of Iraq EVENTUALLY. Both say Bush bad (wow, no brainer). Both attacke Reps, but why? Does it matter? None of the Reps are getting big numbers of backers. One says she is going to freeze interest rates (um, hello Hillary!, You don't control interest rates the Fed does and it doesn't listen to you)........other than that? Not much diff between their empty speeches and Rep empty speeches. Rhetoric by any other name is still rhetoric. Go by their records? OK, both voted WITH Reps on all major policies. Oh wait, Hillary introduced legislation to have a rating system for vid games. Now MoveOn endorses one of them. K. Well so does Ann Coulter and everyone ignores her.
Straight Shooter @ 103:
She voted against the condemnation of the ad citing your free speech amendment. She would have voted the way you would have wanted her to vote to say it was none of the Senate's business - NO to condeming the ad.
Obama stayed away saying it was a waste of time and he wasn't going to even bother voting. Maybe by then he thought fluffing off the vote was better politically for him while Hillary took the stand against it and voted No at the same time taking the heat for that vote from several of the republican presidential candidates.
Obama wouldn't be running for president if he had been in the Senate and voted against the war... By the way , how many Dixie Chicks records do you buy?
Randy@ 81,
I could never vote for Ron Paul or anybody like him. I don't like his message, his loyalties, his ideas, and I especially don't like the love he's getting from the white supremiscists. The things he holds most dear are antithetical to concepts of community, society, investing in the continuity of society and the existence of government as an instrument which the People weild to secure the maximum well-being of the greatest number of members of that society. His way is just another twist on the ideologies of selfishness.
My problem with Obamma is that he talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk.
And....being a MoveOn member, I'll still be casting my own vote regardless of said endorsement.
Paul @ 122:
And Hillary does!? Hahahahahaha....ok...
1st Republic 14th Star @ 34:
yes the hucksters win yahhhhhhhhhhhhh
mutatio @ 123:
Now THAT makes sense!!! Who really cares what political organizations/people endorse? Does it really change anyone's minds?
foreigner @ 120:
I'm glad Obama thought it was a waste of time. I thought it was waste of time to participate in a vote like this. it was dumb.
Eric in Ottawa @ 113:
Well Mrs Clinton might try to bring dignity back to the W.H but I guarantee that if she's elected it will be 4 years of division and hatred on a level never yet seen.Republicans are genetically wired to hate the Clintons.Of course the Press will join in with joyful abandon.
Actually, I think that this is true of 90% of all Democrats and progressives. It's just the true-believing supporters of each candidate who go around waging total blogowar for their candidate; with supporters like that the candidate hardly needs GOPers.
foreigner @ 120:
Thanks. Looks like a win/win for both of them. But I do think the MoveOn endorsement will bite Barack in the butt. Patraeus still has a lot of "patriotic" fans.
Senate votes to condemn MoveOn, Clinton votes no
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/09/20/senate-votes-to-condemn-...
ConcernedCanuck @ 124:
I don't like Hillary either.
So MoveOn members prefer the continuous Shuck and Jive of Obama to the alternatively 'Masculine'/Aggressive and Womanly/Wiles/Whining of Hillary?
And who counted the votes?
Were they tabulated on a Diebold ATM device, hooked-up to the MoveOn donations department?
Will MoveOn become the Slow Submarines of the Dems, to counteract the Swift Boats of the War Machine?
Is MoveOn the New Establishment?
Paul @ 122:
I don't understand what you mean really. Ethics reform. Civil rights. Healthcare reform. Providing jobs for citizens of Chicago. Spoke against the war when it was unpopular to do so when he was running for the senate. Did not vote for the bankruptcy bill. Voted on yes, 4000 bills. When he said he was against poverty, he meant it. That's why he voted no for the bankruptcy bill.
Yada, yada, yada.If I want to see partisan bickering, I'll just go over to Free Republic and watch them crucify McCain. It's entertaining.
If you don't like Clinton, if you don't like Obama; stay home. Don't vote. That's a vote for the Republicans. Great. Way to go. Let's put them back in charge. They have done such a wonderful job.
Don't be silly. Pick your candidate. But when push comes to shove, let's act together and put the Republicans out.
Note: In case you are interested, I like Obama. I sent him $75 and I bought the t-shirt. But if Hillary is nominated, I will blow out all four tires on my little red wagon getting down there to vote for her early and often. ;)
Move-On has never picked a winner...
WoW @ 127:
However it just shows that if he so willingly forgoes his responsibilities as a Senator to vote on items brought before them, what does that say about his character? What will he decide is below his dignity next? How many of the Senators who did vote also think it was stupid but decided to vote anyway as to what they were elected to do - make decisions one way or the other ?
"Is MoveOn the New Establishment?"
Oh thats good.Nicely done.
Bystander @ 111:
See my #73. I can only speak for myself, but probably others feel the same.
The right wing slime-machine do its best to attach an HRC presidency, but they will try to do the same to an Obama Presidency. After all, the I think that if the GOP talking heads let that filth unsaid their heads would explode. Maybe folks will finally get tired of these bilious types and stop listening to them or buying their books. Then they'll either have to live off their ill-gotten gains or find an honest way to earn a living (fat chance, that).
LA Times Obama endorsement, in its entirety, here:
Ted @ 48:
I really don't get why everyone still is talking about not understanding what these candidates are talking about.
Whoever you support, do yourself a favor and read their platforms.
Take the time, do your homework. You might find reinforcement for why you are supporting your preferred candidate and you may find yourself supporting someone else entirely.
http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/
http://hillaryclinton.com/issues/
http://www.johnedwards.com/issues/
WoW @ 133:
You may want to keep in mind that this alleged anti-war candidate, like H. Clinton, continues to vote for the funding of the occupation of Iraq, thus making Obama as culpable as the Republicans for keeping this most unnecessary occupation still going against the Iraqi people.
link didn't work, here it is:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-ed-dem3feb02,0,3530861.story
Michelle @ 24:
One factoid....Graduate of Harvard Law School. Same as Alberto Gonzales. And Harvard, of course, is where GW Bush was given an MBA and was taught all he knows about business and economics.
What would Zeus do? @ 140:
Here's whats worth considering.
How valuable might a President be who is able(on occasion)to deflect criticism by playing the..*wait for it*...Race Card?Cynical? Guilty. Realistic? You decide.
Looking forward to seeing Obama tomorrow AM. Nice of him to come to backwater Boise!
A 70% -29% ass whoopin!
But beneath the headlines are some other interesting endorsements. And endorsements mean a lot and more to the Obama side - because he's earning every one of his by his words and deeds. Not by long friendships, not by ties, or quid pro quo type support. Also it's easy to support a woman and wife of an exPrez, so Clinton's supporters' were already there, where Obama's are freshly established and have more of an element of risk to them.
-Daniel Moynihan (D), deceased, is a well known and loved east coast politician -loved by both parties, but he helped Hillary with her Senate campaign. His wife just endorsed Obama.
Charles Wrangel -tied to New York and the Clintons like glue - his wife just endorsed Obama.
More interestingly Paul Volker ex fed chairman just endorsed Obama and his economics -also a highly respected figure by polar opposites from Carter to Reagen and from neo con Larry Kudlow to Senator Kent Conrad -and who has zero ties to Obama, but just thought his financial knowledge was superior to all drummed up by the Clintons. Wowiee.
That should mean more to average people than any other endorsement.
Why would anyone support either of these pre-selected corporatist candidates? Honestly, do you really care about this beauty contest or are you just looking for something to root for, or a personality cult to join?
What if those of us whose candidate has been eliminated by the corporate media focused on something other than this joke of a presidential race? Here’s an idea: if you’re somebody, like me, who is pissed about the corporate power structure stuffing these two corporatist frauds down our throats, why not refocus that energy on something else, something you can actually feel good about? Like supporting Cindy Sheehan, for instance. Taking Nancy Pelosi “off the table” would be sweet revenge indeed. I sent Cindy Sheehan $100.00. Imagine if every other Edwards, Kucinich, Dodds, etc. supporter did the same …
http://www.cindyforcongress.org/
MOOaCOW @ 15:
nice to see that the clintons are still paying for internet trolls
you got all the talking points in there....good for you
now please explain the clinton's relationship with internet swindler peter paul
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