Countdown: The Implications Behind O'Reilly's "Lynching Party" Quote
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Feb 20, 2008 11:45am
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
Keith Olbermann brings on Washington Post's Eugene Robinson to discuss the horrific history behind Bill O'Reilly's casual and callous use of the phrase "lynching party" in reference to Michelle Obama's quote about being really proud of this country and the implications one may draw from it.
You know what lynching was? Lynching was a horrific practice of murder, torture, dismemberment, burning alive, hanging, and the only purpose of lynching was to perpetuate white supremacy in the Jim Crow south. It wasn’t…the idea of course, wasn’t to lynch all black people, but by lynching a few black people…not a few, by lynching some black people to demonstrate to other African Americans that this could happen to you, that you have no power, that we have all the power, and that we can take anything we want from you, including your life. There’s nothing funny about lynching. There’s certainly nothing at all funny or remotely appropriate about the use of a lynching reference to talk about Michelle Obama. And the word “unless” followed by “we’ll track it down,” is way beyond the pale.
Login or Register to post comments.
I don't think these were calculated statements by BOR, he's just a flat-out racist.
Between dredging up and coyly threatening lynchings, the endless debates on whether waterboarding is torture, and the gun massacres, ad nauseum, I am so freakin' glad I don't live in the U.S.
Nor do I ever wish to visit.
What a fucked up country....still living the 18th century and enjoying it.
Guess we won't be seeing Eugene on The Factor anytime soon.
I tend to think O'Reilly used the term in its modern sense of 'ganging up on someone' rather than its more direct meaning. However I support any misunderstanding that brings that asshole down. So I will pretend to be outraged if it helps get Billo in trouble.
And Billo IS a racist.
thank you
i went blue in the fingers yesterday trying to argue this point with various peeps who felt that injecting a historical violent racist word into a story about Michelle Obama was somehow acceptable... which it is not.
gene robinson is more eloquent than i will ever be, take it away gene~
Boycott all products advertised on Fox News network, or don't complain.
FilthyHarry
"modern meaning" ? There is no "modern meaning", and if you are using it in that way, stop. Stop, now.
O'Racist responded: "You far left-wing pinhead, NYT-based, ACLU supported, Vermont-based, Soros-funded, smear-merchant, hate mongers took me out of context"
Did I miss any of the reich-wing talking points?
I think Billo has been hoist by his own petard! Excellent.
O'Reilly is broadcasting The Fester from Los Angeles this week. He will also be giving a speech at the Brentwood Theater on the grounds of the WLA Veteran's Administration. That’s right - the Veteran’s Administration. The federal agency responsible for, amongst other things, programs to assist veterans who are homeless due to finances, emotional or physical disability, substance abuse, or other hardships. The agency that reports that there are a couple hundred thousand such veterans who are homeless. Now O’Reilly actually has the gall to show up at a facility whose purpose is to aid people who O’Reilly is on record as saying do not exist.
Anyone up for greeting Mr. O'Reilly and giving him the welcome he deserves?
Thursday, Feb. 21, 2008 - 7:00pm (get there early)
The Brentwood Theater.
West LA Veteran’s Administration
11301 Wilshire Blvd
Brentwood, CA 90049
Tel: (310)479-3003
BREAKING: Here's a just released picture of O'Reilly with his lynching party:
Bill O’Reilly’s Lynching Party
O'Really is despicable. All the Faux people are piling on Michelle's comment today, misrepresenting it, accusing her of treason basically. O'Reilly's producer even defended his lynching remarks. [See MediaMatters.org] Unbelievable.
How many times do we have to be hit over the head with the fact that Billo is a racist?
But, I think he secretly masterbates to those he so publically hates.
Mark,
Great idea to protest O'Reilly in LA. I'm in NYC, otherwise I'd join you.
Arran @ 2:
OK. We'll miss you.
Filthy Harry @ 4:
It is only someone who is ignorant to the historical meaning who believes that one can say this with any other implication. I don't mean to be rude, but you must be aware what words mean when you use them (especially in this case because O'Reilly was talking about Michelle Obama, a black woman.)
Its similar to using the word "crusade" to describe invading the Middle East.
The speaker is responsible for the connotations.
Of course, nothing at all will happen to the "Frank Burns of News," - however, had this been a progressive radio host like Bill Press or Stephanie Miller, OH MY GOD! The shit would truly have hit the fan and Bill-O's head would have exploded and "The lefties are racists!!!" shpiel would have been belching out of every right winger's radio speaker!
Un-FUDGING-believable!!!
Dr. Matt @ 8:
Note that O'Reilly was talking about Obama people defaming Clinton. You need to throw in some intra-party strife.
So let me get this straight.
The word, lynch, when used in the context of lynch mob or lynching someone is completely unacceptable and inherently racist? Or is that only in reference to an African American?
Anyone else think that Michelle Obama is going to get the "Hillary treatment" from the right-wing assholes?
They have to do racism quietly. Misogyny is right out in the freaking open.
As a black man, this sort of talk has always horrified me, but to be honest, I've given up being able to do anything about it. If you point it out as racist, you get called racist, because "people don't do that anymore."
It will forever be a freebie for people to use against blacks when they get too "uppity," and nothing will ever be done about it. All I can tell you is, I hope no one ever has to see the faces of the Obama's two young daughters when they hear people say this stuff about their parents. On national radio. And never be held accountable for it.
Meanwhile, Don Imus and Dog the Bounty Hunter are back on the air, so you can bet nothing will happen to Bill O'Reilly about this.
Some things never change.
Old Billy and Dr. Matt @ 8:
You also need to turn O'Reilly into the victim of a left-wing smear campaign...because, per him per usual, O'Reilly didn't say what he said, etc.
Filthy Harry @ 5:
Give me a break. The only "modern sense" that this makes is that it's an attempt to incite more racism and to justify the feelings of many bigots. Mentioning a lynching party on a black woman to racists is like yelling "keg party"' in a college dorm. The people that are excited about it will salivate at the opportunity.
This sounds like a terroristic threat to me. Where's the FCC?
Blue Lensman @ 1:
Everything he says is read off a script. Some putz somewhere wants those words out and BOR is more than willing to spew them, for money. F-en Rovian tool.
Actually, there is a "meaning" that is separate from whites murdering/torturing/terrorizing African Americans. It's not much better in meaning, but it's the one I grew up with, and that is a 'lynch mob' or 'lynch gang' was associated with vigilante justice in the "Old West". This, of course, was whites murdering/torturing/terrorizing whites, blacks, grays, greens and any other variety of human being who they felt had broken the law and whose trial could just not wait for the circuit judge. Sort of like the old player quote about Vince Lombardy: "Coach doesn't discriminate; he treats us ALL like dogs..."
Was BillO remember old spaghetti westerns when he made the comment. Who cares? I say: "Hang 'im high!" (pun intended to make the point).
There is no “modern meaning”, and if you are using it in that way, stop. Stop, now.
Certainly, when Thomas called his treatment a "high-tech lynching" he was implying the racial dimension. I think that the "modern meaning" does have the racial overtones. Remember, Robinson is not saying that O'Reilly literally is advocating killing Obama. Instead he is saying this is racist, and threatening in the way that a policeman firing a shot near an unarmed civilian might be. Or that's how I read it.
bobaloo @ 18:
I think you have to be sensitive to the context. If you mean "lynch" then say "lynch." But if you use the word, be aware of the connotations.
Are you implying that there is something unfair about this? Maybe you should try to use the word "niggardly" in polite company and see what happens. Its not inherently racist, but you would be an idiot to not be aware of the possible interpretations.
Blue Lensman @ 1:
Blue Lensman,
I agree, this was no mistake. These were calculated statements by O'Reilly.
Filthy Harry @ 4:
Filthy Harry,
If she were Jewish and he talked of gassing Mrs. Obama for her comments would you still be providing the modern interpretation? This guy knew full well the connotations of his comments, the "modern sense" of the term notwithstanding.
Okay, I'm SO not in the business of defending Bill-O, but I do think this is a bit overblown. People are being really shrill these days. Hillary says that she can hear the voices of Ann Richards and Barbara Jordan cheering her on, and people start saying she's hearing voices from beyond the grave. Michelle Obama says that she's never been more proud of America, and the right-wing nuts say she's ashamed to be an American. Bill-O actually says that he's withholding judgment on her for that statement - using an inappropriate figure of speech, granted - and it's become this. I have no love for the guy, I think he's a total idiot, but let's focus on the BS that really matters, shall we? (I know this is where someone points out that it's indicative of a pattern of race-baiting remarks he's made over the years, and I won't disagree with that. Just saying, it was a figure of speech.)
Is there a modern sense to the word "murder" because that's what lynching is.
The Idiot @ 28:
a racist and violent figure of speech.
(sorry for the repeat C&L), it would be like, when referring to a woman, saying that you are going to have a rape party.
or, like K Myers wrote (#27).
.
My family asks me why I don't listen to the PRAVDA NETWORK, T.V. and Radio stations, and because I because don't want to offend my family, I tell them that I don't find that kind of talk entertaining. What I mean to say is that I don not find bigotry entertaining. I just don't want to call my family bigots or imply that they're supporters of bigotry.
.
Idiot,
I don't agree that this is getting overblown. Because Bill O' threatened a presidential candidate's wife on national TV. He should be fired immediately. If you or I said something like that to a co-worker, we'd be fired. There's no excuse for making racist threats like that. And I don't care if Bill'O understood the implications or not.
O'racist has a hissy fit when someone photo-shops herr dubyah or some other reich-winger in an unpleasant pose, but this racist language is acceptable? Gimme a break....
Jason B @ 20:
Maybe they will yet...maybe they will...I'm still optimistic that good will prevail...this sort of comment by BOR is MUCH more serious IMHO, than what Imus or that throwback bounty hunter said...I hope the NAACP puts so much pressure on his employers, and advertisers they will have no choice but to fire him.
No accident. Just slick and subliminal. Racist like O'Reilly speak in codes to his bigot followers constantly. We have a sports guy here in Chicago, Mike North, an absolute vile ignorant bigot who has made a career out of hounding black athletes and has openly admitted that he purposely injects "race topics to set the phones on fire." O'Reilly knew exactly what he was doing.
Everyone knows these rightwing monsters are monsters. The horrifying thing is that so many of our neighbors support them, agree with them, vote for them, are not horrified by them. Even Fox advertisers are apparently unfazed by allusions to Republican mob hanging Mrs. Obama from a tree. She'd proud of her country, but there's a lot to be ashamed of.
Old Billy @ 15:
The historical meaning does NOT refer only to racists lynching black people. You'd be ignorant not to know that. Black people are not the only people to have been lynched. Lynch mobs have hung all sorts of people. The phrase in it's unconnotative state simply refers to an angry group formed to get someone.
And what the hell is this "The speaker is responsible for the connotations"? Bullshit? Who made you boss of what speech means and what a speaker's responsibilities are?
Does not a person's intent when he speaks count for nothing? Doesn't the listener have any responsibility to listen with an open mind? To undertake to find out what the speaker meant if there is some confusion? To wonder if the speaker might have meant something that is beyond the scope of the listener, so perhaps the listener should stfu and do some learning before he embarrasses himself? I for one certainly do NOT subscribe to the current fashion of watching what I say because someone else, not caring about my intent may take it the wrong way. I speak as I like.
What PC garbage. If you wish to ascribe meaning to other people's words that are not intended, than you will continue to lower the public discourse with unnecessary misunderstandings.
The Idiot @ 28:
Um...bullshit...
How dare they once again quote O'Lielly out of context!!! How dare they use his own words against him!!! That is what will be heard in response to the backlash from his absurd and deeply irresponsible statement!
liberalNmoderation @ 38:
Ditto!
Filthy Harry @ 37:
Try and slice it anyway you like...it's still racist as hell in this context.
Arran @ 2:
No, not enjoying it. In fact completely repulsed by it. Unfortunately for those of us who live in the 21st century, the wanna be Puritans are in control of the government.
And will likely remain so through hook or crook come november.
FWIW, Utah State Sen. Chris Buttars (R-West Jordan) is suffering a similar fate after stating he was the target of a "hate lynch mob." This was in response to an earlier statement he made in session in regards to a bill related to school construction, referring to the bill as such: "This baby is black...It's a dark, ugly thing."
In response to calls by the NAACP for his resignation (as well as for his refusal to meet with the NAACP about the "ugly baby affair"), Buttars responded, "How do I know what words I'm supposed to use in front of those people?"
Source: Buttars trying to get back to work [sltrib.com]
The comments section of that article will give a good indication of the level of controversy this has generated locally, as do the comments in this editorial followup:
Walsh: How many strikes does Buttars get? [sltrib.com]
Filthy Harry @ 37:
Why is it only "PC garbage" when a reich-winger is accused of being a racist?
"O-tay"
K Myers @ 27:
I'm sorry is there another connotation for gassing people that I'm unaware of? Lynch mob DOES have other connotations beyond hanging black people. Just because YOU don't know that, it doesn't make a person who uses the phrase a racist. It just means you're ignorant. I for one am not going to dumb down my speech because ignorant people don't get it. Its responses like this that got an assistant to the Mayor of Chicago fired for using the word 'niggardly'.
Allow me to reiterate from my original post, I do think Billo is a racist.
E in MD @ 42:
Yeah...definitely NOT enjoying this at all...the Puritans may be in control for them moment, but their power is diminishing. And if they steal another election...torches and pitchforks!
It's not just the racism...though that's bad enough. Bill O' threatened someone's life, a presidential candidate's wife in front of millions of viewers. Then he got his listeners involved in further slandering her, while promising them a "lynching" if their slanders could "be proven."
I did not see the comments by O'Riley on this. He normally uses the term when he thinks or wishes to raise the issue of whether someone is being unfairly treated or 'railroaded'. Gosh, I sure hope there are no rail workers reading this. Lynching was never confined to African Americans. It was used to bypass the law sometimes by vigilantes, sometimes by klans men and sometimes by mobs. Catholics, Jews, pagans, atheists and people of all races have been lynched. Most recently lynchings have occurred in Africa and they are tribe on tribe, race on race etc. In the development of the U. S. west more whites than African Americans were lynched. Lynching is a form of terror and it was and is used along with other horrensous practices against any one not able to defend themselves effectively. In a few black communities the people have been well armed. They didn't have lynchings and when the klan attacked, the klansmen got the tails shot. The lesson is quit whining and lying about history pretending you are the most victimized of victims. When was the last time a person of African lineage had a real good shot at getting elected to the head hincho slot of France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, etc.
Maybe he meant one of David Lynch's parties, where you have to dance around with midgets and half-naked fat women while breathing through a respirator and chewing on blue velvet socks.
liberalNmoderation @ 41:
ONLY if you can only see Michelle Obama as a black person. See her as just a person and it is perfectly reasonable to assume that Billo was referring to the right-wing attack machine attacking her en-masse. Which in its historical sense of an 'angry mob looking for justice' is unoffensive. Outside of the general offensiveness of the right-wing attack machine.
Loved the clip of Roger Ailes... that's the target.
Dr. Matt @ 44:
No, you missed it. PC garbage was being used to describe the idea that people should watch what they say because other people may be offended, AND the intent of the speaker counts for nothing.
The Idiot @ 28:
Well, at least you're living up to your name!
Filthy Harry@46 says:
"I’m sorry is there another connotation for gassing people that I’m unaware of?"
Sure, as in gas chamber for execution of convicted felons. However, if I am talking about a Jewish person (as the hypothetical was given) is that the first connotation YOU would think of?
While historically you are correct, that the term did not have any particular racial reflection at it's origin, you miss the point. Since, oh, the Civil War, it has been associated almost exclusively to the execution of black men without due process of law.
Filthy Harry @ 37:
You may spin it anyway you wish to convince yourself,and you may speak as You like. Just don't be surprised at the reaction. I always ascribe to this proverb-'best to stay silent and be thought a fool,then to open one;s mouth and remove all doubt.
Billo would MURDER someone who's black for what they think? That PROVES he's a effing RACIST!!! I normally think that Rev. Al as sort of a s**t disturber, but he ought to be all over this piece of CRAP like white on rice, every day, 24/7 until FAUX has to suspend, if not fire O'lielly, the piece of human filth. EFF HIM!!!
This sounds like O'Really's way of getting payback on Barack for not coming on his program or hell, in Bill's convoluted way of thinking, a way of goading him into showing. He is effectively flaunting his racism and boasting immunity. He deserves to be stripped of his communication mediums for this and countless other blatant infractions. Furthermore, he should be barred from all vehicles of communications that have allowed him a comfortable livelihood.
Filthy Harry @ 37:
Does not a person's intent when he speaks count for nothing? Doesn't the listener have any responsibility to listen with an open mind? To undertake to find out what the speaker meant if there is some confusion? To wonder if the speaker might have meant something that is beyond the scope of the listener, so perhaps the listener should stfu and do some learning before he embarrasses himself? I for one certainly do NOT subscribe to the current fashion of watching what I say because someone else, not caring about my intent may take it the wrong way. I speak as I like.
What PC garbage. If you wish to ascribe meaning to other people's words that are not intended, than you will continue to lower the public discourse with unnecessary misunderstandings.
Look, jackass, the only person responsible for policing what comes out of your pie hole is you. Either say what you mean and accept the consequences of what happens when you say it or SHUT THE FUCK UP. It's not a difficult concept. If you go around talking about nappy headed hoes or lynchings and don't qualify it when you're originally saying it then you've got absolutely no defense when someone takes offense to what you have to say. And if you 'speak as you like' then obviously whatever comes out of your mouth is what you want to say, right?
I'm half Irish and the Irish used to be treated like vermin a while back. Yet we put up with the stereotypes of us all being hot tempered red headed drunkards. You know why? Because eventually we became accepted into society. Nobody is going around talking about lynching 'Mics' anymore. If it were still the case that up until 50 years ago Mics weren't allowed to vote, were forced to live in ghettos, and were forbidden to marry anybody but other Mics and were preventing from making a decent living then any time somebody started talking about Mics I'd be pretty damned offended too. Even if they had gone away. The term 'Mic' would be a symbol of how shitty my people had been treated in the past by assholes like you.
It's not my responsibility to make sure you're not making an ass out of yourself. That's YOUR responsibility. You wanna bitch about political correctness? Fine, how about any time you insult someone they get to punch you in the eye as hard as they can or hire someone else to do it. How about that?
Or you could try acting like you grew up in a civilized country wherein you don't need to resort to racist garbage in order to make your point. Everybody in this country has equal worth, whether douchebags like you or OReilly like it or not. You don't see anybody going on OReilly's show and asking him how he liked his boiled potatoes and whiskey do you? Or asking him to do a riverdance for their amusement. You know why? Cuz it's fucking ignorant and you don't treat people like that and not expect
them to get offended by it. If you and people like you grew the fuck up you'd realize that.
Filthy Harry @ 37:
So,
Lynching or talk of lynching is supposed to be acceptable? Because... ?
Call it PC garbage if you will, it still does not make talk of killing someone, regardless of their race, acceptable, which you're mustering to do.
I suggest to quit while you're ahead.
.
Fanon @ 55:
I'm afraid I must disagree, you'll find many people who are quite taken with the 'old west' who are just as if not more familiar with vigilante justice meaning of the phrase. As far as the example of 'gassing' someone as another meaning, I submit that it would only be valid in your example IF the jewish woman referred to were guilty of some heinous crime. The reason is because in Billo's context of the right-wing attack machine gearing up to get someone, the connotation of a vigilante justice mob is valid. My point is that there is in this situation another equally valid context to his lynching comment and if you refuse to acknowledge it, then you're being intellectually dishonest.
How about registering a complaint at www.fcc.gov?
Excuse me, but hasn't Mr. Olbermann referred to.......
Chris Wallace (Jewish) as a "monkey".
Alberto Gonzales (Hispanic) as a "waterboy".
Sieg Heil Salute mocking O'Reilly and was written a letter of reprimand from the ADL.
Replied with profanity to an outside email email and forced to apologize.
Referred to ken Starr as Heinrich Himmler and forced to apologize on air the following evening.
Pot meet kettle.
Filthy Harry @ 61:
I gotta call BULLSHIT on this...it's totally racist, end of story. NEXT!
Max-1 @ 60:
So no metaphors are allowed? No one is to speak of a group of people ganging up to get someone verbally?
E in MD @ 59:
Exactly my point. Other people shouldn't be telling speakers what they meant when they spoke.
Filthy Harry @ 46:
I'm sorry is there another connotation for gassing people that I'm unaware of? Lynch mob DOES have other connotations beyond hanging black people. Just because YOU don't know that, it doesn't make a person who uses the phrase a racist. It just means you're ignorant. I for one am not going to dumb down my speech because ignorant people don't get it. Its responses like this that got an assistant to the Mayor of Chicago fired for using the word 'niggardly'.
Allow me to reiterate from my original post, I do think Billo is a racist.
C'mon Harry, do a Riverdance for me!
Poor choice of words on BO's part. Shades of what happened with David Shuster recently, except that BO has more clout at his network and won't get any time off. If some people want to use this as proof BO is a closet racist, then it's their prerogative.
To avoid controversy and false accusations of insensitivity, bigotry or racism, try to avoid using "lynch" in a conversation with/about blacks, "pimp" in a conversation with/about women, "nuke" in a conversation with/about Japanese people, etc.
liberalINmoderation @64
Thanks for saving me the post.
E in MD @ 59:
Look, jackass, the only person responsible for policing what comes out of your pie hole is you. Either say what you mean and accept the consequences of what happens when you say it or SHUT THE FUCK UP. It's not a difficult concept. If you go around talking about nappy headed hoes or lynchings and don't qualify it when you're originally saying it then you've got absolutely no defense when someone takes offense to what you have to say. And if you 'speak as you like' then obviously whatever comes out of your mouth is what you want to say, right?
I'm half Irish and the Irish used to be treated like vermin a while back. Yet we put up with the stereotypes of us all being hot tempered red headed drunkards. You know why? Because eventually we became accepted into society. Nobody is going around talking about lynching 'Mics' anymore. If it were still the case that up until 50 years ago Mics weren't allowed to vote, were forced to live in ghettos, and were forbidden to marry anybody but other Mics and were preventing from making a decent living then any time somebody started talking about Mics I'd be pretty damned offended too. Even if they had gone away. The term 'Mic' would be a symbol of how shitty my people had been treated in the past by assholes like you.
It's not my responsibility to make sure you're not making an ass out of yourself. That's YOUR responsibility. You wanna bitch about political correctness? Fine, how about any time you insult someone they get to punch you in the eye as hard as they can or hire someone else to do it. How about that?
Or you could try acting like you grew up in a civilized country wherein you don't need to resort to racist garbage in order to make your point. Everybody in this country has equal worth, whether douchebags like you or OReilly like it or not. You don't see anybody going on OReilly's show and asking him how he liked his boiled potatoes and whiskey do you? Or asking him to do a riverdance for their amusement. You know why? Cuz it's fucking ignorant and you don't treat people like that and not expect
them to get offended by it. If you and people like you grew the fuck up you'd realize that.
STANDING MOTHERFUCKING OVATION!!!! HELL YEAH!!!
Fanon @ 69:
Anytime! :)
Filthy Harry @ 65:
Say what you mean and you better mean what you say, my dad always told me.
So,
By your logic, I can go into a crouded theater and cry "FIRE!" just as long as there is no fire, while meaning refer to weenie roast we had the night before... RIGHT?
.
O'Reilly's terroristic statement need not have been consciously contrived, but it certainly does illustrate his bullying attitude. As a talk-show host, O'Reilly has developed a patter that allows him to go on and on for hours. His insecure, bigoted attitude pushes that endless stream of words in directions that gratify his need to feel powerful. Thus he effortlessly (and he inevitably will claim "accidentally") integrates the terrifying images of lynching and hunting down black people when referring to Michelle Obama, the momentary target of O'Reilly's disease.
What we hear coming out of Bill O'Reilly's mouth is not bad judgment of an otherwise good man, but rather it is the typical discourse of a cowardly bully.
At the same time that I will defend O'Reilly's First Amendment right to spout such reprehensible bile, I also call upon my fellow citizens to question the appropriateness of buying the products of companies that pay money to Fox News, O'Reilly's employer. Bill-O will never stop being what he is; therefore the onus of poor judgment falls upon Roger Ailes and Rupert Murdoch for cutting checks to such a bigoted bully. It sure isn't news, and no sane person calls Bill O'Reilly "fair" or "balanced." Until they get rid of O'Reilly, we must assume that the bosses at Fox News agree with his words and the attitude that produced them.
Bill O'liely and Limpballs will never change. They have no conscience. It will always be everyone elses fault. You would have tought these people who watch them will finally wake up from their comas.
I don't understand you people. Is it just that you're all blinded by your own self-righteous rage that you are unable to not assume the worst?
The issue (wrong as it is) under discussion in the show was whether Michelle Obama said something (by the right-wing perspective) very unpatriotic. The right-wing attack machine is gearing up to smear and slime (not literally) her. In that context, is not the old west vigilante justice meaning of a lynch mob, as metaphor not really and truly not a possibility?
Filthy Harry @ 75:
I don't understand you Harry...
Your words mean nothing. Even you said as much.
.
reciprocity @ 58:
Good comment, I agree wholeheartedly.
Filthy Harry @ 75:
No
David Hawes @ 78:
Yes, that is what I was getting at. The close-mindedness.
David Hawes @ 78:
And I'llforgive your double negative.
george @ 77:
I second that! Furthermore, I think...Hell I WISH, I HOPE the NAACP knocks on his damn door everday with lawyers in tow, until he is litigated into oblivion.
David Hawes @ 80:
No need to forgive it, just try to understand it.
Ricky Bones @ 40:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew I was going to be tarred and feathered for my comment (Ooops! Can I say that?!). And I'm not going to continue with the argument because it'll only look like I enjoy defending the guy, the very thought of which makes vomit creep up to the back of my throat. And nobody would be happier than me to see him fired for this (not likely - he'd probably get a promotion at Faux News). I'm just saying, I'm going to focus on the dozens of things he says every day that couldn't possibly be argued to have simply been a poor choice of words.
Filthy Harry @ 82:
I understand your words perfectly well.And I strongly disagree with them.
David Hawes @ 80:
Hehe...I am completely unable to NOT assume the worst!
For Filthy Harry [the name suits you]
Threatening brutality against innocent people on national TV to millions of people for ratings is just fine with him. O'Reilly isn't responsible for what he says. And, if you say he is, then you're just too damned PC and need to relax more.
Filthy Harry @ 75:
You are an apologist idiot.
If a GOPer gets caught with kiddie porn, then he deserves all the benefit of the doubt.
When a racist scumbag GOP propagandist says something so utterly ignorant and racist as Bill O's, then he again deserves all the benefit of the doubt.
And on, and on, and on....
It is precious to see right wingers demand the benefit of the doubt, when they are the first ones to deny it to any one else.
Fuck off... I am sick and tired of these apologist and their concern troll buddies.
Filthy Harry @ 4:
I remember when the words "gang bang" had a fun(?) connotation refering to group sex (if such a thing can be considered fun, I look at it as an overwhelming workload, but you get my point, I hope)...then it became sexual assualt with "bang" substituting for "rape", now it's all about violence between gangs with gunplay.
I can never remember ever hearing the word "lynching" in any other context than what it is still traditionally known for. Also, I have never ever heard of a white person being lynched; White people have traditionally been the recipients of a "hangin' ",either from vigilantes or The Law. I've never heard the word "lynch" ever loosely tossed about in conversation without some menacing racist connotation lurking just below the surface. In fairness to you, the word "lynch" may have lost some of its power in the area you may hail from, so I kinda see your point. But from my experience, there was no secret other meaning for that word.
But I will definitely, whole-heartedly and almost gleefully agree with your sentiment that this latest outburst from Billo is perfect for running his ass off the air, and hopefully into the courthouse.
David Hawes @ 84:
You disagree that it is possible, given the context that Billo meant the phrase in a non-racist way? Or do you mean its impossible for that phrase to have no other meaning besides its racist one?
Olberman is not completely correct. Lynching was not a practice limited to the old south, it was practiced in other areas, such as the old west, when citizens took matters into their own hands and "lynched" wrong doers of every color and creed. He is right that in the old south, lynching was a primary tool used to enforce white supremacy and O'Reilly should have been more careful in using it to address Michelle Obama's supposed misdeed. If O'Reilly were just plain old Joe Blow from Kokamo I would give him the benefit of the doubt that he was using the term strictly in the old west sense.
Let me see. Am I in the mood to give him the benefit of the doubt? Naaaaaah, I think that he knew exactly how the word would be construed in the context in which he used it and he meant it to be construed that way. Let's lynch him! In the old west sense of course. (That's a joke son.)
Leslie @ 86:
I absolutely think he is responsible for what he says. Its just that some people think that he meant something specific and are unwilling to admit that perhaps he meant something else. I feel the unwillingness to admit he might have meant something different is intellectual dishonesty, especially given the context.
The Idiot @ 83:
I was calling bullshit on you last sentence, on both replies actually...you make perfectly good sense, then fuck it all up with your closing sentences...given that everyone makes mistakes...surely one as calculating as BOR knew EXACTLY what he was saying...and wasn't thinking of the western style lynching. THAT is bullshit man. And just to play devils advocate here...if it WAS just a poor choice of words, so be it...maybe all the other hateful shit spewed forth from his mouth that he's gotten away with, maybe THESE words will prove to be his undoing. I would love to see that happen!!!
Whether you're refering to a dispicable practice in the deep South or vigilante justice in the Wild West, there is no difference in meaning. "lynching" means and has always meant the act of hanging someone until dead. Any Repugnic trying to defend BillO's nasty comment and all of its racist imagry is just a lying sack of shit.
John F A @ 93:
Not quite. In the old west it meant hanging someone til they are dead. In its modern usage, thanks to the beauty of metaphor it merely means ganging up on someone. Sort of like how the right-wing machine does.
cry me a river libs..... I'm sick of living in the hurt feeling culture, suck it up
Filthy Harry @ 94:
Sorry meant to say: it CAN merely mean...
Filthy Harry @ 4:
BillO' has to be either brain dead or completely hammered to use the term "lynching" in that context. Perhaps he IS brain dead. I won't be surprised. It seems he does it to draw attention to himself.
"Unless there's evidence...we'll track it down"?
They will track what down, and then as a result do what, exactly? The "man" (and I am trying to be polite) suffers from delusions of grandeur. What, does he think that he sits astride some kind of secret police mechanism becasue he can yell back at his bullying father over the airwaves all day?
Filthy Harry @ 91:
yes, you are sooooo "open minded".... And again, a fucking concern troll trying to make the bigot (bill O'really) the victim... and the people pointing the obvious: that he said something so utterly racist and ignorant as to be practically indefensible, to be the perpetrators.
Bravo, Goebbels would be ever so proud.
However, it takes a special set of balls to accuse other people of "intellectual" dishonesty when defending anyone saying the term "lynching party" with respect to a black woman as being a simply "misunderstanding." So what would be the alternative completely harmless context of "lynching party" for a black woman nowadays? Fucking turd?
what is next, someone talking about sending Jews to concentration camps as being misinterpreted according to you? After all, concentration camp can also refer to a summer program to concentrate on your studies or meditation. What is the big deal right?
Intellectual dishonesty indeed, fucktard.
Filthy Harry @ 89:
How exactly do you know what billo meant? Waaaait just one minute!!!! BILL!?! IS THAT YOU?!
chris @ 95:
Whatever apologist. You can (and probably willingly) suck something up too.
Whites beyond the pale?
Is that an attempt at a pun, or a reference to the Edgar Winter Band?
Random House College dictionary defines the word"
Lynch- v.t. to hang or otherwise kill (a person) by mob action and without legal authority, esp. for some real or presumed offense.
well, there it is, in all its ethnic-neutral glory.
Blain @ 97:
Why? The right-wing attack machine is gearing up to get Michelle Obama. How is a lynch mob in its old west vigilante justice sense, used metaphorically not valid? Especially since you know that is how they right-wing see themselves. As justice.
Again, I think Billo is a racist but why is it impossible to admit he didn't mean something racist? Is it just because you hate him so much? I hate him too but I won't let that get in the way of critical thought. Thats what conservatives do.
Blain @ 97:
And where's my mother-fu**ing iced tea!
Filthy Harry @ 94:
Oh man! Complete fucking bullshit and you goddamn KNOW IT!
Filthy Harry @ 4:
I am inclined to agree with you, if only because on its surface you may be right. I also agree that he is a racist and frankly, I don't think the man likes anybody that isn't named "Bill Oreilly". However, no matter what his intent with the word "lynch", he still intends to go after a person, in this case it just happens to be a public figure, for having the audacity, the audacity, I tell you!,to express an opinion. This blabber-mouthed fool does not believe in free speech; he IS a hate-monger, and a total fascist tool. Anything we can do to get him off the air would only contribute to clearing the noxious cloud hanging over intelligent discourse in this country.
liberalNmoderation @ 92:
Well, I'd be cheering right along with ya.
Is Filthy Harry really Rocco from the child porn thread the other day?
liberalNmoderation @ 100:
I don't know what he meant. If you read all I've written you'll see I'm just saying its POSSIBLE he meant something else. Just trying to maintain the intellectual honesty liberals are known for.
ysbaddaden @ 105:
That time was way racist lol
Left&Left @ 101:
I once heard a black comedian put people like Chris in their real concept:
Black people had to suffer centuries of slavery and discrimination, yet white people have had to deal with affirmative action for less than 3 decades and they don't seem to stop bitching and moaning about it.
The ones asking other people to "suck it up" are the first ones bitching and moaning... you know, people are supposed to "suck up" something so vile and racist as what Bill O' said, yet... people pointing that out, and you see Chris with his panties all twisted. Suck it up, chris.... LOL
liberalNmoderation @ 106:
No, he has a point. We use the term witch hunting or burning with no intention of hunting down "real" witches.
However, blacks are unquestionaly real, and federal laws against lynching only came about in the early or mid 1940's under Truman. Presumably they continued for awhile underground.
chris @ 95:
Yeah so are we ya fuckin neo-con...get ready to live in the culture of taking a backseat to progressive thought and a democrat in the WH...you rethugs have been cryon about your hurt feelings for at least 10 years...so kindly shut your bleedin cakehole.
Verdillac @ 103:
...I am disappointed in its neutrality...still, culturally and historically it is not neutral whatsoever.
bill o'really's word choices are sufficient pattern of evidence to indicate at least unconscious racism.
Filthy Harry @ 110:
Yes, you are one of those "liberals" that only show up to defend right wingers, ain't that a bitch troll?
The intellectual dishonesty is taking a racist statement and try to twist it into a harmless comment. You like that term a lot --"Intellectual Dishonesty"-- I recommend you get acquainted with its meaning before using it, because you are the one being intellectually dishonest with your shilling and apologizing.
Tyler Durden @ 99:
If you are unwilling to admit that there is another non-racist valid usage of that phrase you're either ignorant or intellectually dishonest
ysbaddaden @ 116:
Your kindness has been noted... I am skeptical about the "unconscious" part, but I'm sure he could wrap himself in the " I really don't think it, it just comes out sounding that way" defense cloak.
Why does it matter what Bill O's intentions might have been? He issued a threat of violence.
You know, if OREALLLLLLLLLy doesn't remember the firestorm "...high-tech lynching..." caused during the Clarence Thomas hearing, then he has Alzheimer's and it is really very cruel of Fox to exhibit a doddering old fool like Billo.
Or he did remember it, and he chose the word 'lynch' because he knew it would have an emotional impact and grab him loads of attention. And to a guy like OREALLLLLLLLLLLLy, any attention will do.
Not only that, but Bill O' was inviting his audience to help make good on that threat.
ysbaddaden,
Well, when I say witch hunting I mean it. So, watch your back!
Verdillac @ 115:
Tyler Durden @ 117:
Try not to get so angry when you're wrong. Stress is a killer.
I just don't like to see libs act like right-wingers. Billo has made MANY racist remarks. No need to get into a frothy rage when it's not deserved.
Verdillac @ 103:
I think this validates my point that the real issue is in his last remark "we'll track it down" (and do what exactly?) This is mental pollution, propaganda for the stupid, the deliberately mis-educated. Who exactly is Bill-O deluded that he is?
Filthy Harry @ 110:
I misread your reply, my bad...it is possible...it's also possible that I'll win a million bucks tonight, and live like Hugh Heffner the rest of my days...possible, yes...likely, not in a million fuckin years.
I see what your gettin at...this time however...your pissin in the wind...Billo knew full well what lynching is, and to use that word while talking about a black woman, is unexcusable...sayin it about a high profile woman like Michelle Obama...may very well be the beginning of the end for BOR...propagandist...falafel enthusiast.
Verdillac @ 115:
is the above information too disappointing to acknowledge...?
anyone...?
This is the PC garbage that gives we liberals a bad name, get over it already.
Pay attention to the context!!!! He used this word while talking about the "lynching" from the press, not a literal lynching. He was talking about the press making mountains out of molehills, exactly what MS Belle is guilty of here. A press lynching and a literal lynching are completely different things. Good GOD, there is so much of real substance to hate about Bill O, let's talk about that........
Filthy Harry @ 118:
Jackass, according to the law encyclopedia:
"Lynching is violence, usually murder, conceived by its perpetrators as extra-legal execution, or used as a terrorist method of enforcing social domination. Victims of lynching have generally been members of groups marginalized by society."
According to the dictionary:
"Lynch [verb]: to put to death, esp. by hanging, by mob action and without legal authority."
So please enlighten us, on what context is "lynching party" when referring to a black woman acceptable?
Oh, wait... I am sure that you are going to tell me that he really meant that he wanted to invite Mrs. Obama to a coffee party to discuss and encourage her new found patriotism.
For such a "liberal" you really feel like it is your job to excuse the inexcusable right wing bullshit.
liberalNmoderation @ 127:
I don't know, I've seen billo be plenty racist, no need for him to beat about the bush. I still think that given the right-wings view of itself, as defenders of the American way, the idea of them gathering up to get her in the old west sense, however still metaphorically (thanks to the 'witch-hunt' example above) isn't as far fetched as you winning a million dollars. If you do however win a million dollars, let me say, I'm horribly wrong and you're a powerful and attractive person.
Perhaps a few images would be in order. The very image of lynching involves the mob against the one they have decided is guilty of a crime against their power. It is interesting to note that in California in the latter part of the 19th century - it was Chinese immigrants who were lynched. Chinese women were often the victims of white mobs. Try reading Mark Twain's mighty essay - The United States of Lyncherdom". His family did not allow it to be printed until the 1920's because it was so accurate. Like rape is a crime of power rather than sex - lynching is a crime of power rather than some sort of rural justice. Both crimes come from a place in the resentful human heart. When many such resentful hearts come into a place of self righteous anger - we have a mob. We have Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly is a man filled with resentment and envy. I would liken him to the ridiculous character in Dostoevsky's "Notes from the Underground". Both are so self absorbed they are incapable of admiration. Such people love to have their resentments confirmed - with words out of context, with deeds that are trivial. This man is what he is - a nasty little narcissist. Quit buying anything from his sponsors and let them know. Quit watching him, listening to him and paying attention to him. That is his payoff and we give it to him every single day.
Verdillac @ 124:
I agree!!!
Filthy Harry @ 125:
Yes, the prototypical concern troll... oh us baaaaad liberals acting like GOPers for pointing out the republican vile and hypocrisy. Apples and oranges, how is that for "intellectual dishonesty" you fucktard...
Sure, he has said many racist things, but why should we point this one obvious one out, right? What is the big deal, nothing racist about referring the figuratively "lynching" of a black woman. No sireee bob, nothing racist with that.
Tyler Durden @ 130:
Not excusing the right, just trying to hold the left to a higher standard. A standard you are failing miserably with your seething anger and baseless insults. Try looking up the word 'metaphor' I think a read of our posts will show you are behaving far more like a right-winger than I.
Thinker @ 132:
Excellent. Well said, well done. That is O'Reilly's audience in one succinct sentence.
Filthy Harry @ 135:
"lynching", as defined in the dictionary, with great regret I might add, completely absolves Billo from any wrongdoing.
Verdillac @ 137:
Lets not go crazy now. The dictionary is not the end all and be all of meaning. Dictionary won't necessarily cover cultural connotations which is what we're arguing about.
Filthy Harry @ 131:
I think that these right wingers will use ANY excuse, and rationalize every way imaginable to justify their racist, xtain supremacist ways. It's wrong, wrong, wrong! And though I can only speak for myself, I think most of the nation feels at least a little like me...I'm tired of this shit, and I'll be DAMNED if they're gonna continue to get away with it.
If I do win a million dollars, I'm gettin my family out of debt, and maybe buy myself some new shoes. And some new cd's...and a new computer...and a new tv...and...well you get the idea.
Filthy Harry @ 138:
Mybe so, but in a court of Law, insiunations, innuendo, and double-meanings are very likely to constitute "heresay".
liberalNmoderation @ 139:
That the thing I don't understand. Billo's said such worse things, I don't understand why he's still on the air.
Verdillac @ 140:
Who's talking about a court of law. I want to gather up a posse go find him and... wait a second
Filthy Harry @ 138:
Yeah, the cultural connotations of "lynching" and black people in a single sentence must be about fun and games.
Concern trolling at its best, so let's not go crazy and actually look at what Bill O' was saying, no siree bob. Who are we going to believe our lying eyes and ears or you, right?
Filthy Harry @ 141:
Because we allow him to remain on the air, whilst bickering amogst ourselves.
Filthy Harry @ 142:
dry humour...good timing too...I will admit to chuckling about it...
Hey...O'Lielly....
I hear the Obamas enjoy iced tea and use forks like they do in Harlem....
Gee...maybe African Americans from Leavittown...err...I mean Westbury do too....
Levittown
Filthy Harry @ 141:
Because on every one of those occasions, a bunch of apologist like you went on to say "hey what is the big deal, he has said worse than that... so let's just move on." For the most part, right wingers never get to be taken to task, because of idiots like you making all sorts of excuses.
Concern trolling is nothing new, but people like you are elevating it to an art. Bravo!
Filthy Harry @ 46:
Yeah, but uh, connotation is implied from context and he was referring to piling on and going after a black woman. So, even if you accept that the term has other more geenric uses, he used it in a very specific context that gives it a specific meaning. Very poor and offensive choice of words.
Tyler Durden @ 148:
Really? I tried not to be too insulting. Tried to reason out my points in each post. What makes me a troll? Because you disagree with me. Again, read through both our posts, you come off as a troll completely.
Login or Register to post comments.