Rose: Hearing from Iraqis about the invasion of Iraq: 5th Year
By John Amato Tuesday Mar 25, 2008 6:00pm
What a novel idea.
The significance of the interview lies as much in what it says about the American occupation of Iraq as it what it illustrates about the American media. In the American media's discussions of Iraq, when are the perspectives expressed here about our ongoing occupation -- views extremely common among Iraqis of all types and grounded in clear, indisputable facts -- ever heard by the average American news consumer? The answer is: "virtually never."<!-- Copyright (c)2006 Site Meter -->
This is an incredible video clip. Glenn Greenwald posted some dialogue and has much more about this most important issue:
ROSE: And obviously, what we want to accomplish on this fifth anniversary of the American invasion, or the coalition invasion of Iraq, is how they see it as Iraqis, five years later. Give me an assessment.
ALI FADHIL: That's a big question, assessment. Well, basically, probably, I`ll kind of sum it in a few words.
It's -- we have a country where the government is not functioning after five years. We have too many internal problems. And we have the violence increasing day after day.
We have a huge crisis of refugees inside and outside Iraq. We have a total failure of the -- of the civilian -- the civilian structure and what's happening inside. We have the sectarian divisions increasing. We didn't have that before. Now we have it. So, basically, my assessment is we have a whole nation called Iraq, now it's wiped out.
CHARLIE ROSE: And Iraq is worse off because the United States came?
ALI FADHIL: It's worse off because the United States came to Iraq, definitely, and because the United States did all these mistakes in Iraq. read on
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I have a problem with the phrase, "the average American news consumer". Is it possible to stop viewing news as a product?
Link to video does not respond.
Glenn Greenwald has an excellent post up about this on his Salon blog. Glad C&L posted the video!
Anyone who wants to know why this happened should go to Greg Palast's website and read about what Bremer and the CPA did, BEFORE the violence against US troops began. The attempts (current as well) to privatize Iraq's oil (even though virtually every Iraqi is against it), the "free market" corporate looting of the country the ensued (against the wishes of the Iraqis), the "orders" that Bremer gave that he claims are binding to future governments, the handling of Iraq's debt by Baker (especially in regards to his clients the Saudis), the cancelling of elections and the installing of US puppets into government, etc.
To call what we've done spreading "democracy" is either astonishing ignorance, an outright lie or a extremely distorted view of what democracy is.
What the hell we doing over there?
Whats the god damn point?
Who put the beat down on Charlie Rose?
L.A. Confidential @ 5:
Oil?
Liberal Jer @ 6:
Charlie Rose Bravely Smashes His Face To Save MacBook Air
It seems the vast majority of Americans receive their information from the Corporate Media.
That Corporate media which has nothing to tell and lots to sell.
Blood and tooth paste don't mix.
Turn your freakin' TVs off.
ConcernedCanuck @ 7:
Well where is it then?
How do you say "Duh" in Arabic?
Thanks for posting this link. I watched it and was so glad to hear what's really going on being spoken about (albeit way, way after the fact and with not many people really listening anyway).
I went onto read on Salon about the looting of the museum in Baghdad. What a monstrous act! (Well, the entire thing is a monstrous act, there's too many to list or even think about). However, it is blatantly obvious even to Blind Freddie that the neocons orchestrated the looting of the museum. Those artifacts worth untold billions of dollars - those artifacts have probably largely gone to private collections of the buddies or, at least, those complicit of the looting.
What a filthy act this whole debacle has been. I went to Iraq in 1976 - beautiful country. Beautiful people; kind, gracious, giving, welcoming, proud. They had problems, yes, horrible problems, but how worse than Bush was Saddam? How worse than Cheney? How worse than any of these filth?
Monsters all.
The looting of the museum is just a token of what's happened, but along with everything else these scum have perpetrated, this is a loss to humanity. Well, the whole thing is a loss to humanity.
Millions marched around the world to say NO to invading Iraq. Democracy I hear? What freaking democracy? And where exactly is this grand thing supposed to be operating? I didn't and don't see much evidence of it. In Australia, we had record numbers turn up to march... our horrid government - part of the Coalition of the Damned - joined forces and crushed this once wonderful nation (and crushed us at the same time - being complicit as we are)
IRK. It makes me feel sick.
L.A. Confidential @ 10:
Apparently it is the only thing working in Iraq so far.
Saddam paid for lawmakers' Iraq trip
WASHINGTON - Federal prosecutors say Saddam Hussein's intelligence agency secretly financed a trip to Iraq for three U.S. lawmakers during the run-up to the U.S.-led invasion.
An indictment in Detroit accuses Muthanna Al-Hanooti of arranging for three members of Congress to travel to Iraq in October 2002 at the behest of Saddam's regime. Prosecutors say Iraqi intelligence officials paid for the trip through an intermediary.
In exchange, Al-Hanooti allegedly received 2 million barrels of Iraqi oil.
The lawmakers are not mentioned but the dates correspond to a trip by Democratic Reps. Jim McDermott of Washington, David Bonior of Michigan and Mike Thompson of California. There was no indication the three lawmakers knew the trip was underwritten by Saddam.
Hahahahahaha.........man oh man.....what a twisted world.
"Well where is it then?"
Increasingly under control of Western oil companies, for no logical reason. Society needs, at least for the time being, oil to function. The profit motive, a weak excuse anyway, doesn't apply here, the corporate involvement is in no way justified. We should, but won't, nationalize the oil corporations and allow the leaders to be tried for the inhumane governments and policies they've backed. They have "limited liability" though, since the corporate form is an outdated institution that's ill suited for the world we live in, so nothing will happen there either.
Maybe Charlie should look up the name April Glaspie to realize the setting up of Iraq in the Kuwait beatback. There has been a longstanding plan to lock up the Iraq oil with the sanctions being the impediment. Another reason to keep the Clintons out of the White House because they were part and parcel to the decade long affront to the Iraqi people. Do you want a little depleted uranium with your dates?
WOW !!
How do you say "Up Your's George" in Arabic ?
Oh, you weren't kidding about the Macbook:
http://www.metafilter.com/70075/Charlie-Rose-Black-Eye-Saves-Air
That's hilarious. I wonder if his face is insured?
Important line left out though, might not be true though:
"U.S. officials familiar with the case stressed that no member of Congress had any knowledge al-Hanooti was spying for Iraq or was complicit with illegal activity."
Pepper @ 18:
I never read that line in the AP article
ConcernedCanuck @ 14:
Wing Nuts getting that desperate now to bring this one back up?
Johnny2Bad @ 11:
"Bush"
The mess that Iraq is in is exactly what the neocons want. The more despair and hardship there is the more they can justify keeping our troops there and spending our tax dollars in the name of oil. Besdes, neocons just love it when people are suffering...
Iraqis? So?
-- Dick Cheney
Wasting hundreds of billions in Iraq helps our economy how?
Republicans are brain dead.
Leslie @ 3:
Whoops, correction: Glad C&L posted Greenwald's post. :)
I think most people dont realize just how bad the situation is in Iraq. They just hear violence is down, and see McCain on TV and go "Oh good, things are going great. No need to worry." The surge has made the situation even worse.
Here's a clip of the ruined city of Baghdad. The journalist is Iraqi, and used to live in Bagdhad but he still cant move freely
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2008/mar/17/baghdad.city.of.walls
Blue Lensman @ 1:
Uniformed and lazy people also assume 'news' should be balanced and or nice, this is diametrically opposed to what news is all about.
Important NEWS is all about the bad things and this is the only sane approach, as a survival trait its vital to know what is bad and what might be coming down the road.
Real news aka bad stuff while a tad depressing allows us to plan ahead and avoid suffering the fate of others.
McCain the Liar @ 24:
Republican stock holders in 'contractor' and MIC companies QED
Now tell me. After all this, is the surge working yet?
I don't really know how America could ever apologize to the Iraqi people for what they've done to their country. There's really no way. :(
L.A. Confidential @ 10:
The Oil is in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.
So very, very sad. So, subtracting the 1% of the greediest people in the U.S., the remaining votes for McCain will tell us how many people in America are stupid, ill-informed or insane.
L.A. Confidential @ 21:
Apparently somebody at AP is. Twisted. And somehow this is news, eh?
ConcernedCanuck @ 33:
It's going to get worse. I will not be surprised if this Country plunges into compete insanity this year.
ConcernedCanuck @ 33:
Oh wait, there are better stories LA
Man arrested near Capitol faces WMD charge
Explosives allegedly found in suspect’s vehicle were undetected for weeks
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23803125/
ConcernedCanuck @ 14:
So? So the fuck what?
It may not help your economy, but it helps the upper class economy. More specifically it helps the vp's at Blackwater ,Haliburton, Raytheon and any defense contractor really, especially any connected defense contractor.
miss_kitty Hussein @ 36:
Why are you swearing? It's news, isn't it?
B- b- bu- but but... the surge..... It's working, This liberation of Iraq, it's a good thing, McCain and Cheney says so... We're almost there! Jussst another six months and we'll turn the corner for sure this time... We know where the peace is... It's north and south and east and west of Baghdad somewhat... err no?? Not even close????.... Well then, there it is, on Charlie Rose from the mouths of two Iraqies.. Although, Charlie, I like you, but it seemed like you were interrupting a bit more than I thought necessary almost everytime one of them was about to say something I wanted to hear.....Made it look like you weren't really listening, which is part of OUR problem in this nation regarding Iraq and the mess we've made there.. Juust a bit ironic Chuck, given the point of the interview..
All in all, pretty damning verdicts from two of the locals.. Damning and embarassing... I really can't say anything they didn't already say.... We just need to get out. Haul our asses up off the firing line and go home.... We just aren't helping anymore if we ever were, (I say no on that), no matter how many Hajis we kill in the name of... of what exactly??? Yes, exactly! That's it! This far down the road and this many excuses later, we ain't got no good reason to be there anymore regardless of whatever bullshit propaganda talking points Bushco wants to feed us....And we need to take responsibility for what we have done to the Iraqie people.. And it wasn't bringing them democracy... More like a ruined nation and society, along with a festering ill will towards us that will probably linger for generations.
What these two men spoke of are probably, all other mendacity and greed driven domestic criminal behavior aside... what these two mens simple truth spoken actually means and amounts to are the primary reasons why we as a nation needs to see our legislative branch of this government get off their asses, stop being cowards and impeach and then imprison the entire Bush administrations principle leaders and try and jail all the conservative think tank wonks who put them up to this international crime against humanity and supported their efforts, even to this day, ehh Bill Kristol, ehh Rush Scumbaugh, ehh all the rest of you fox mouthpieces....
Jesus, I am ashamed of my nation, sad and ashamed in every fiber of my being.. And I am beet red angry at what these sonsofbitches have done... both to Iraq specifically, my nation as well, and the world in general.. This is not a stable planet now and George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are the two most visible but certainly not the only purps responsible for this sad soul destroying situation.... I want them to pay for all this shit! The bastards!! May they both, along with all their alcolytes, rot in hell for an eternity of eternities............JD
Its about time we had real iraqi's speaking about the occupation and not lil george; telling us how much they love it. And you don't even have to be a scholar to realize that citizens don't like to be occupied or killed. Apparently this failure of an administration was not able to figure that out.
The Iraqis were great. They were passionate and articulate.
Charlie Rose is so goddam dumb it is hard to stomach watching him.
He is steeped in administration bullshit.
I remember him saying, on a program with Norman Mailer, that we would be greeted as liberators - flowers strewn in our path etc.
How does an idiot like this come to have this kind of program on National Educational Television?
The answer can be found if you follow the money sponsoring him.
galmud @ 27:
my friend take no notice of the concrete barariers they are just highway deviders for trafic safty!!!!
ConcernedCanuck @ 38:
it's news, but not big news....those 2 lawmakers were irrelevant knuckleheads that didn't get much respect then, and they're irrelevant knuckleheads now, longsince forgotten by the country and history...
it's about as newsworthy, shocking and surprising as McCain's hot lobbyist...
they are all up there in DC writing laws for sex and money......when they get caught, no big shock but to frauds or fools...
same thing with sadamms trip
Just out of curiosity, why do people keep using the word "mistake" in this context?
Is there any evidence that the current outcome was not intended (see Cheney predicting these precise results post-Desert Storm)?
Is there any evidence that the plans resulting in the current outcome were not deliberate (see Rumsfeld rejecting the Pentagon's war plans repeatedly and against advice)?
Is it not vastly more probably that the actual goals were and are completely unrelated to both the official ones (WMD) and "officially unofficial" ones (see Leno, "Operation Iraqi Liberation" joke, circa 2003)?
There's a section of the right wing that cannot understand why the Administration is pursuing Empire so "incompetently". I am reminded of the time Mark Twain raised hell over the worst cup of coffee he'd ever had, only to find out that it was tea...
galmud @ 27:
i disagree...
setting aside the nuts we see on tv and radio (han/limbaugh) and the fraudulent politicians (lieberman, kyl, et al), most of america knows iraq is hell, we are causing it, we shouldn't be there blah blah blah
but what can we do....
we've had a jackass in the WH thumbing his nose at us for 4 years, cheney right behind him telling us to fuck off....
the congress won't do anything to stop the madness....
no impeachment hearings after all the corruption, from iraq to gonzalez...
so i think the country is numb with apathy, frustration and disgust.....they're not blind to what's going on in iraq, they feel utterly useless....and it'd be hard to argue they're wrong
Note that the video is edited as follows:
SINAN ANTOON @ 10:08: I just want to say one thing about, you know, all this talk about removing Saddam, you know, perhaps it’s time, especially in America, for us to understand that removing Saddam was not the objective of the war. It was a byproduct. Fouad Ajami, one of the theoreticians of the Neocons, an Arab-American himself, called it the “acquisition of Iraq.” Removing Saddam was a byproduct. You know, we keep forgetting that the objective of the war has been shifted 3 times. It was first about weapons, you know, of mass destruction, and then it was about democracy—
[CUT/EDIT/CENSORED, 10:36]
ROSE: What is it we don’t understand about Iraq?
It’s censored on the Charlie Rose site as well:
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2007/05/14/3/iraqi-journalists
I would have liked to have heard the completion of that analysis by the Iraqi professor. Perhaps it alluded to something like this:
“According to a 1996 paper drafted by prominent hard-line neoconservatives – including some, like Douglas Feith and David Wurmser, who would later serve in senior posts in Cheney's office and the Pentagon in the run-up to the invasion – ousting Hussein and installing a pro-Western leader was the key to destabilizing Israel's Arab enemies and/or bending them to its will. This would permit the Jewish state not only to escape the Oslo peace process, but also to secure as much of the occupied Palestinian (and Syrian) territories as it wished.
“Indeed, getting rid of Hussein and occupying Iraq would not only tighten Israel's hold on Arab territories, in this view; it could also threaten the survival of the Arab and Islamic worlds' most formidable weapon against Israel – OPEC – by flooding the world market with Iraqi oil and forcing the commodity's price down to historic lows.
“That's how it looked five years ago anyway.”
—Why Did the US Invade Iraq?, Jim Lobe, 3/20/08
http://antiwar.com/lobe/
editor @ 40:
Exactly. We have not given them "freedom", only freedom from Saddam. They are more in slavery and peril today under U.S. occupation than anything faced under Saddam. That is what an Iraqi can freely admit, and yet the five years of unwarranted and unjustified occupation of someone elses country is somehow ignored by the media as being irrelevant to the situation we are in as foreign occupiers feeding a guerrilla movement?
How does one "win" a war that the host country knows is unjust?
Where is the mainstream media on this? Freedom of the press? Maybe they are afraid of being "liberated" from their employers like Iraq was.
Forrest @ 44:
ocams razor
life experience and common sense
did you watch bush's war? have you read any of the excellent books, by ricks and the like.....
sorry, no conspiracy
they fucked up
ohio progressive (typical white person) @ 45:
I have to agree with you totally. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I would not want to be an American. You have a government (for longer than little Bushboy) that operates in their own world, doing as they wish, and giving you all the finger except for when an election is near. Then suddenly, they are wonderful caring human beings. "Vote for me, the lesser of two evils".........That's some choice. Yikes.
galmud @ 27:
I've found this clip on YouTube as well. I think this video is worth sharing with as many people as possible, particularly those poor saps that believe we're now "winning". The walled ghetto's with open sewers in Baghdad that have been created because of the "surge" look like the worst kind of dystopian nightmare.
There is no way that we are winning in Iraq and if we continue with these strategies like the "surge", which seem more like a crime against humanity after watching this video than a plan for peace, then there is no way we can win.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvcYr72DFps
Pish posh and him ham, more reality based islamoleftists spreading lies about their own country just to make Our Glorious Leader look bad.
One thing we could say that would be almost as good to their ears would be "We're leaving."
Here's something that struck me while watching this clip. Charlie IS America. He likes to talk to hear himself speak, but doesn't like to listen to what anyone else has to say.
Charlie, you forgot the first thing about the media in this country, do NOT present reality, facts and history into a discussion about Iraq. It' s a big no, no. People might start getting the idea that the U.S. was wrong about something. That can't possibly happen.
Memorable quote from Ali Fadhil;
"The Americans in Iraq are like a virus, like a disease, and for us, we need to get rid of the Americans because the Americans just don't know what they are doing. Anything they do, probably even good intentions, is bad for us. Everything they do. Everything. There is nothing that they do is right. That is what is going to happen. It's just prolonging the diaspora of Iraqis. We are suffering more and more every day."
Thank god! thanks so much for this! I have been so thirsty for this, and I know many many many other people as well.
Lol, can you believe the absurdity of our not hearing from Iraqis, just as we don't count the Iraqi dead?
Who Has Been Whipping On Charlie Rose
There is a clear reason for noting such a title. Charlie Rose kept trying to frame and direct this interview. Clearly, the interviewers were not having Rose's injections. Who knows what happens behind the scenes; Rose looked as though he's been through a meat grinder.
There is a very distinct form in western journalism. Especially TV journalism. The tendency is to claim to have the scoop when they really mean they are creating the scoop. While watching the video, you could not help but notice the many attempts by Rose to push the interviews pass the defining moment in Iraq to an excepted future. "What can American policy do for Iraqi" Rose says. The interviewers could not get pass telling what is happening. They know Americans don't have the full picture. To be put in the position to talk about their country must of been very difficult. The Iraqi interviewers feel wronged and they wanted the US to know just how that wrong unfolds within their country. For them, a show about the wrongs in Iraq would serve them well. They truly have much to say. Great interview.
Joseph
The word OIL must be at the top of a media taboo list somewhere...
Because no matter what show the topic of oil/Iraq/Us might be raised on, the host either quickly steps all over the commentor's point or or simply ignores the comment or question; every...stink'n...time. If you don't believe me, start keeping track.
Charlie, quickly scrambled to change the conversation to the Iraqi museums once the dreaded word was uttered, professor dude had a look on his face like, gee, now this is a shock.
I'm telling you, every, freak'n, time.
Nativeoak @ 57:
Your observations were right on.
Joseph
Pepper @ 15:
Fuck society. These people want to control the oil spigot. And they are.
Read Greg Palast ...
Forrest @ 44:
*stands and applauds*
Joseph @ 58:
True.
that is a GREAT SHINER!
Pepper @ 15:
Agreed, but only for the Iraqi and other countries with economies not fully developed. As for the U.S., the current govt.'s policy is only to increase supply and NOT about decreasing demand. This unbalanced way to control price is doomed to fail as any freshman taking economics 101 will tell you. The U.S. has a fully developed economy to reasonably survive the move away from oil and decrease demand. A nationally supported push to develop and apply non-carbon based energy alternatives will decrease demand. That will result in U.S. privately owned oil companies to either go bankrupt or morp into smaller companies servicing pesticides and plastics industries. Another perhaps more important result would be fewer petro wars.
galmud @ 27:
Yah I'd say the surge is working real well, the open sewers, the walled off sections of the city, the homeless......
oh yah I forgot the 4 to 8 hours of electricity a day
This interview is honest and enlightening. The best bits are at the end. The prof who wrote the book has passion.
PBS Frontline's "Bush's War" (3/25/08) can be streamed at the PBS website. It is two one-hour segments of interviews and footage of the Iraq debacle with high production values and incredible insight.
Great inteview. big media should interview more Iraqis who actually know what the Iraqi people think instead of some blow-dried political consultants from DC.
Rose, on the other hand seemed impatient and annoyed at times. Oh well, at least he had the courage to 'think outside of the box'.
Iraqis were interviewed all week on my local NPR station. Not national. Local. Iraqis in Baghdad and refugees in Damascus.
http://www.yourcallradio.org/
Charlie was upset at hearing the truth, but was respectful towards his guests. They educated him and anyone who viewed this clip. They should have a full month of interviews with Iraqis to hear their side of the story.
I wonder if Iraq will ever get back on it's feet. :(
Heh, during my term as an Air Force grunt, I often received dirty looks for referring to "dubya-dubya-eye-raq" as "Operation Iraqi Liberation." I suppose the acronym was too close to the truth.
On an unrelated note, I got plenty of dirty looks during the 2004 election every time someone asked who I was supporting and I'd say Kerry. Said dirty looks would turn to gape-mouthed shock when I'd backpedal by doing the Nazi wave and saying, "I mean, uh... Dick/Bush forever, Comrade! Four more wars! Four more wars!" ...People are so easy to piss off when they've been fed nothing but Fox News for six months at a secluded air base.
And " Iraq is worse off because of the U.S. came " Ya Charlie , we know in your parrallel universe of the United States never has bad intentions , contradicted by FACTS from History and from true heroes such as Gen . Smeadley Butler , who says yes we invade countries for economic reasons , it makes your skin crawl hearing absolutely ABSURD questions like " Iraq is worse off " ...when the U.S. "CAME" ..."CAME " ? The U.S. INVADED ...INVADED charlie rose and bombed the hell out of a country after years of brutal sanctions . My neighbors COME over , the mail man CAME . When the worlds super power decided to attack a virtually defenseless country and kill hundreds of thousands and destroy a good part of the a country , it is absolutely pathetic. Somebody needs to rEMIND Charlie Rose of basic FACTS .
There's actually Doubt in Roses mind , the U.s .might not be responsible for what is happening , shows the corruption in U.S. media and their attempt to create a differently reality , covering up for U.S . Foreign policy .
Chuck @ 17:
الى الجحيم يا ابن الزانية
When the gentleman proclaimed that the sanctions had already devastated Iraq it reminded me of that fact. This was the same fact that us war protesters kept SCREAMING prior to the invasion. We need to quit calling it a war and call it what it really is, the Iraq invasion and occupation. It's always been about the oil and the US elitists trying to establish world dominance in every field. Now they have not only destroyed Iraq even more, they have destroyed anything that used to be considered American. We are now more like the USSR than even the USSR was. If you can't pay for your freedom with $$, you can't have any.
Remind me again of all the successes of the anti war movement?
Un-frakkin'-believeable!!!!! I mean, I know Rose is a neocon MSM propagandist, but HOLY COW!!!
Whoa. The most honest conversation about Iraq on the MSM. Sinan Antoon rips it up!
The Bush administration and the neo-cons agenda to destroy Iraq is exposed once again. Mission Accomplished. Sick Sick sick. This is a must watch
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/03/26/iraq_debate/index.html
Kahoneez @ 71:
Hello! Over one million Iraqi people dead, who knows how many are injured, millions displaced and the majority of Americans have their pedals to the metal as they drive to the malls.
And we wonder why they hate us! Oy Vey!
Joseph @ 56:
All Charlie Rose has got is "Saddam - a bad man".
So he can't deal with the reality that the war had nothing to do with Saddam - good or bad.
People like Charlie Rose must be a wet dream for folks like Bush.
lolland @ 72:
I hope you're telling the truth.
الى الجحيم يا ابن الزانية
الى الجحيم يا ابن الزانية
الى الجحيم يا ابن الزانية
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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