The lie that just won't die
By Steve Benen Thursday Mar 27, 2008 6:44pmThe Jeremiah Wright controversy was — and, arguably, still is — a major threat to Barack Obama’s presidential campaign. When voters, especially centrist white voters who hoped Obama might be some kind of post-racial candidate, saw an angry Christian pastor making inflammatory remarks from his church pulpit, it caused some concerns.
There was, however, an upside. No one in their right minds could see all of this uproar and still think Obama is a Muslim. One would have to be a blithering fool to discount the wall-to-wall coverage of Obama attending a Christian church, and befriending his Christian pastor, and nevertheless fail to believe that Obama is a Christian.
And yet, there are an astonishing number of people out there that just can’t let go of the lie.
A Pew Research Center News Interest Index survey earlier in March found that 79% of the general public had heard rumors that Obama is Muslim, and 38% had heard “a lot” about this. The current survey finds that most voters have no misconceptions about Obama’s religious beliefs – 53% say that he is Christian. But one in ten believes Barack Obama is Muslim. Roughly a third (34%) say they don’t know what his religious beliefs are, though 9% say the reason they don’t know is that they’ve heard different things about his religion, not that they haven’t heard about it.
Notably, the impression that Obama is Muslim crosses party lines: 14% of Republicans, 10% of Democrats and 8% of independents think he is Muslim. Within both parties, ideology is a major factor: 16% of conservative Republicans believe Obama is Muslim, compared with 9% of moderates and liberals. And 13% of conservative and moderate Democrats believe Obama is Muslim, compared with just 5% of liberal Democrats.
I just have one question: what is wrong with these people? OK, one more question: what more will it take for these folks to accept reality?
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these people are ignorant and will never have a clue what reality even is.
When someone wants to believe something they will and no amount of facts will change their minds.
As someone in the know, I can tell you that Obama is a Muslim. The next president of the United States is going to be Muslim. He's going to open the flood gates for Muslims, while ignoring this nation's immigration policies and quotas. He's also going to hand over the White House keys to Osama Bin Laden. [/snark]
A lie told often enough becomes the truth. - Lenin
That is how Al Gore was swift-boated in 2000. He never said "I created the Internet".
the fact that the msm treats pastor wright as if HE were running for office, and conflating wright with obama might make a less reasonable person to believe that the msm has fallen into the 'all black people look alike' trap. they do know that wright is not the one running for president, don't they?
ohhh.... they don't care... ahhh, i get it. they smell a juicy, ratings-grabbing story when they smell one.
and, of course, the hillary cabal will use this to further her campaign, to the detriment of the party.
What is wrong with these people? Two words: Fox Spews.
Some of these people only watch FOX news and do not read or watch or listen to anything else. These are the same people that still believe Iraq was responsible for 911. The rest probably do not pay any attention at all to the political scene. They only watch American Idol and sports and soap operas.
My question is: What difference does it make? It's so offensive that everyone (even this blog) just goes ahead and assumes that being called a Muslim is a slur. Would this even be a story if 10% of Americans thought (wrongly and contrary to the evidence) that he was, say left handed?
They aren't capable of it apparently. They just want to hate him and are happy with whatever reasons they choose to latch on to. Most likely they are the same ignorant folks who think we can still "win" in Iraq which attacked us on 9/11.
People believe what they want to believe.
"Obama is a muslim"
"Democrats will raise taxes"
"The U.S.A. is the greatest country in the World"
"The Bible is the word of God"
"Iran is a nuclear threat"
"The terrorists want to kill us"
"Fords are better than Chevys"
"Chevys are better than Fords"......
But, see, he's a secret Muslim! Otherwise it wouldn't work. Duh.
Say's alot about our education system in this country. Alot of people in this country still think the sun revolve's around the earth.
An interesting ancillary question is: so what if he was a Muslim? Or a Jew? Or Hindu? Or (gasp!) an atheist? Why the fuck should it matter?
and, hillary? The Fellowship and The Family.
for those of you unfamiliar, check this scary stuff out:
Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. "A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation," says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. "I don't....there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer."
When Clinton first came to Washington in 1993, one of her first steps was to join a Bible study group. For the next eight years, she regularly met with a Christian "cell" whose members included Susan Baker, wife of Bush consigliere James Baker; Joanne Kemp, wife of conservative icon Jack Kemp; Eileen Bakke, wife of Dennis Bakke, a leader in the anti-union Christian management movement; and Grace Nelson, the wife of Senator Bill Nelson, a conservative Florida Democrat.
Clinton's prayer group was part of the Fellowship (or "the Family"), a network of sex-segregated cells of political, business, and military leaders dedicated to "spiritual war" on behalf of Christ, many of them recruited at the Fellowship's only public event, the annual National Prayer Breakfast. (Aside from the breakfast, the group has "made a fetish of being invisible," former Republican Senator William Armstrong has said.) The Fellowship believes that the elite win power by the will of God, who uses them for his purposes. Its mission is to help the powerful understand their role in God's plan.
http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html
hahaha
None of these arseholes have caught on to the 'Jewishness' of the name 'Barack (Baruch),' which means 'blessed.' It's the first name of a very good friend of mine with an extensive Hebrew background.
Steve, it's too bad that a lot more people can't get to see the complete context of Wright's speech. John had it here at C&L a few days ago and it is quite clear that his reference to "chickens coming home to roost" was about each of his parishioners own relationship with God and had nothing to do with America. If that video could be widely disseminated, a lot more people could see what a lousy distortion this obvious setup really is. Unfortunately, it is almost a ten minute video and we know what the attention span of America is. All I know, is that it was quite clear that Wright was not referring to the USA, but to all those Christians who are shirking their own responsibilities as Christians, if that were their persuasion.
How could that video be disseminated more widely and get people to watch the complete video and not a tiny out of context snip-it.
The problem with americans is that they are all extremist, to their detriment.
The only thing worst than being a Muslim would be being a Christian.
Both fostered the dark ages rather than enlightenment. Superstition, the unsubstantiated belief in in people and things meant to control and manipulate others.
In fact they are the same thing.
Much like the difference between Obama and Hillary.
Effectively, little to none. If one were a true democrat, they both would be very acceptable.
It’s a WIN / WIN, unless you believe show business is reality and had a tabloid mentality.
Some of us are still hoping that someday in America people will be judged by their character and not by the colour of their skin or their religion.
Observation:
The Hillary cabal ? The Obama sect ? or The McCain Clan ?
For all the gods sake, grow up!
not sure you can do much to heal stupidity.
intentional ignorance is part of America...
some people are just too stupid to ever learn
and some are brain-dead from birth...
All that polls reveal is that a sizable chunk of Americans remain woefully misinformed - if not downright ignorant - of... well just about everything involving facts. Of course, there is a massive industry dedicated to keeping them that way.
re: Rev Wright
It's not the 'chickens coming home to roost' that bothers me.
It's the "whitey gave the black man AIDS and CRACK to keep him down."
As his spritual guide, fine. But as his mentor - mentor implies a teaching/learning relationship. For 20+ years.
Lets call a spade a spade.
Its more acceptible to hate muslims than its to hate blacks.
Muslim has become simple code for "we can't have a black president!"
YourMom @ 10:
and most important
bush's daughters are not whores, they just
act that way.
I have just one question: Why do you care? It's as if you are presuming there would be something inherently wrong if he were in fact a Muslim. What the hell is the difference between being a Muslim, a Christian, or a Scientologist? They all live their lives based on fairy tales.
You know what I pray for? I pray that in my lifetime I will see a president of the U.S. who doesn't believe in any barefooted mythical hippy creatures in the sky.
I would speculate that a larger percentage believe that the earth is only 6000 years old, that we have been visited by aliens or that people can predict the future.
Face it, we as humans, aren't real bright.
because in ignorance there is bliss?
there's a lot of dumb-ass blissful motherfuckers in America these days.
It's typical of the Right Wing Authoritarians. They so desperately need someone to tell them what to think so they don't have to. They sit in church and accept without question EVERY WORD that they hear, so it's inconceivable to them that other people can go to a church and have different opinions from the pastor.
It's also inconceivable for them for a presidential candidate to be friends with someone, accept them even if they don't always agree with them. Authoritarians are uncomfortable around those who don't think like they do.
The biggest problem for Obama is that millions of voters have a tough time figuring out just who and what he is. Obama has a disturbingly slick, smooth, ingratiating yet elusive quality about his public persona. It's tough to get a solid read on this guy. Is he a messiah or a charlatan? Obama is a chameleon. He is all things to all people. He is and will always be whatever his constituency wants him to be. He could be a Muslim. He could be a black liberation Christian. He might be agnostic. He might actually transcend race & religion. He seems to be anything that helps him win elections and acquire political power. Obama is everything and nothing. Obama is a consummate politician. Obama is a Mack Daddy.
What's so hard to believe about that? As a sleeper cell, Obama is indoctrinated in Islamofascistterriss ideology, and parading as Christian to fool the voters. Once he's in the WH, ObL will flip the switch, from his cave in _____stan. Then we'll see who was right all along. Right? (wink)
These theories are so 'nutty', it might make one want to look back at 9/11, mightn't it? (wink) I mean, why not, if everything is on the table?
Elizabeth Hasselbeck compared Rev Wright to Jeffery Dahmer
I dunno. LSD maybe?
They are w's base. Very gullible.
I am surprised Obama is keeping this going talking about that radical. .
I think it is a sure loser in the general.
The calling for Clinton to drop out will alienate the remaing millions and will backfire.
Big mistake.
They know he is a Christian. They just want to make their hatred known by answering this stupid racist question. The damn polls need to stop asking this idiotic question, then the lie will die.
19 per cent @ 30:
Yes, because we know how much Rev. Wright likes to lure teenaged boys into his apartment and eat them.
TheToonGuy @ 27:
have you seen the new movie "the mist" just out on dvd? there's a woman in it who is so
far gone on fucking bible reality, she takes over and tells everyone she is god's chosen
representative. i loved it when she was finally shot dead in her fucking empty head.
i have no tolerance for fucking bible pushing religious hypocrites.
Now screaming, This is a theory, its code to get out the white, nursing home vote!
What's wrong with these people?....well, where should we start.
How many repugs gobble up Pravda news every night with bor/vannity/pews/gibson/etc, etc? They tend to be some of the most close minded, ignorant sons of bitches this country has ever let spawn.
How many repugs refuse to listen to Obama and Clinton, because they are "Democrats"? Again, a rather large number of repugs and brain dead Americans.
And finally, how many just don't want to hear politics?...they haven't got time for that stuff, they are too busy trying to pay the rent/mortgage and the bills each paycheck. There are a LOT of those folks.
So, you add all those together, and you have some uninformed Americans just too damned busy, and some close minded idiots that aren't going to budge until they are put under the sod. There are a LOT of these folks. Hate...just to hate.
America is a nation of idiots. Just like any stereotypes, there are exceptions. But when you have 51% of the voting public stick this jackass back in the White House after what he did to us the first four years, it's not saying too much to say we are a nation of morons.
810expat @ 8:
Barry O' is in fact left handed.
EliteLemming @ 36:
not a theory
It doesn’t help that shit heads like Hillary Clinton say “As far as I know he’s not a Muslim” (she knows and always knew that he was not a Muslim. It is just one more example of how slimy she is).
Having said that, never underestimate the stupidity of Middle America.
Most people don't pay a lot of attention to politics, it doesn't figure high in their priorities.
They just pick up snippets of information, the 'Dog-whistle' words like 'Muslim' and 'Terrorist' that Karl Rove and his kind use so effectively.
Some people want an excuse to dislike him. Discounting him as a muslim is an 'acceptable' form of racial discrimination to some of the less intelligent people out there.
It is probably the same dumbass 10% who believe that Iraq bombed the World Trade Center.
I will vote for McCain because he is a leprechaun. :-) He belongs
to the cult of the "Wee People." Good enough for me.
Obama's religion is of no consequence.
Muslim has been associated with the word terrorist by the Bushies - and there it remains.
Someone has to address this. It probably won't be Obama.
The first time I read an interview with him where he referenced his religion was where he said it was his "Christianity" that led him to be opposed to gay marriage.
So I don't much care if he is Christian, Muslim or Vegitarian.
I ain't voting for him.
Blue Taliban Osama Buddha @ 34:
and we all know that elizabeth has had more than oscar meyer
down her throat.......
Well, that just goes to show you how incredibly successful you can be just making shit up and repeating it over and over.
RE your question: "I just have one question: what is wrong with these people? "
Uh, products of No Child Left Behind?
Maybe they should make these assholes take a test before they vote. Somehow make sure they have double digit IQs.
They are for Triumph, the Insult Comic Dog to poop on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3EYintUu-o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U85cAKt7x48
These are people who never read, watch, or listen to anything but Rush, Sean H., and Fox News.
"blithering fool" yep, that about sums up the neocons!
Our Media and Education systems are failing people in my opinion.
Look at how many people fell for the inferences of Saddam being linked to 9/11.
Sad.
Obama is a secret Muslim. The Wright controversy is just cover. So says the naysayers anyway.
Orangutan. @ 52:
You think?
What will it take? Improve the educational system and....therapy.
Maybe they don't know what "Muslim" means?
They are waging a war against reality, they'll never accept it.
What is wrong with these people? They rely on the MSM as their sole source of information. As long as their is a FOX News, CNN, etc. these people will be in the dark, just the way the Republicans and their enablers in the MSM want them.
I don't understand why it matters if he was muslim or not. The other choices? A repeat liar......duck, incoming sniper fire........and a senile old coot trying to bring back Ronnie Raygun and wanting to war with everyone. I'd pick the muslim, thanks anyway.
There are people who think the world is flat; that George W. Bush is a great president; that Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11; that homosexuals caused Katrina (and all the other destructive hurricanes); that Elvis lives; and the Mob killed Kennedy. There will always be a percentage who will believe Obama is a Muslim; no matter the evidence. Just the same, the people who use are unreasonably virulent about Rev. Wright and use guilt by association are also people who were never going to vote for Obama, anyway.
Frybread @ 50:
In other words....cretins.
Dude, I'd love to be there, just to see the look on yer face, when the......
'Nadhmi Auchi buys Rezko pizza parlors' story hits Tweety's show.
I do hope your in good shape and not on any heavy meds....cause when Auchi explodes into the 'sphere and the corporatist press it's going to make
Wright look like no big deal. It's going to consume all the oxygen on the planet. It's gonna be 48/14 'til til ya puke.
Hah....ha...hah....hah....The Magic Man's trip is just about over.
Gonna be a messy business at the end tho'......
thejoshuablog @ 47:
ayup , but I thought that was the " head start program " .
Well, the 14% of repigs who belive this lie are most likely like that toothless Kentucky women you had featured here a month ago. They belive the earth was created in 7 days 6000 years ago. Shit for brains fanatics will believe anything.
The 10% of dems are probably the hard core Billary supporters who don't care if it's true, they just like spreading the lie. That's the other thing aboug fanatics, they will do really stupid shit even if it isn't in their own best interest. As long as they do it for "the cause" they can justify anything.
I'm surprised only 8% of indepenants thought this. Being an independant myself, I think I have a feel for how many bat shit crazy independants there are in this country and I would have expected that number to be higher. I guess they can't ask the ones who have disconnected thier phones and refuse to cary a wireless becuase the satalites can find them that way.
Anyway, I think the whole study is flawed because it didn't take into account that the participants were AMERICAN. The same question asked in any first world country would have been laughed at.
These kinds of things wouldn't carry on for so long, if we had some stiffer incentives / regulation for greater media clarity.
Look at FOX, then look at who these believers are. You will find them connected, just as they were connected for "Saddam having WMD's" and other similar BS memes.
When fact and opinon are muddled together, like we see so often today, it's extremely difficult to put an end to this stuff because people don't hear the facts stand out. There is no reason to! Why not just listen to those people you trust and be done with it?
Frybread @ 50:
Rush, Hannity and Fox News are not enough. You need to include Michael Savage and Michael Medved if you want the complete truth.
They are stupid enough to believe the Obama is a Muslim lie, yet smart enough to drive to the correct polling place, read the ballot, follow simple instructions, etc. Amazing! I usually get a snappy "I Voted" sticker when I hand in my ballot. Something tells me these high-functioning conservative morons get a cookie and a juice box.
Mr Hussein Pelicano @ 20:
diamondmc @ 12:
Amen.... Nader called it dumbing the public and that "massive industry" is very good at it. The sad thing is the earth extends past the us borders which I am inclined to believe that these same people would argue against that fact.
"…what more will it take for these folks to accept reality…"
A brain transplant.
[[[30 19 per cent Says: Elizabeth Hasselbeck compared Rev Wright to Jeffery Dahmer]]]
*====>>> Who is Elizabeth Hasselbeck, and why is she on TV, instead of shopping??
Sarasvati @ 60:
I agree with you about everything you said but the Kennedy assasination... and I do believe it was a conspiracy. I don't have any doubt about that.
There is a simple answer (which someone may have given but I scrolled past): they ENJOY - in that crazy and/or mean-spirited way such people have - BOTH STORIES' message and effect.
Once your life is composed of nothing other than varying measures of fear, envy, and self-loathing, anything that confirms your obsessions is true, regardless of facts less crushing than a sledgehammer into the face.
You're talking about people who still haven't accepted that evolution is real. Don't hold your breath.
We have seen the racists and they is us?
Bushed! @ 56:
It's a kind of sheet, isn't it?
He's not a Muslim--he's a "Christian" that goes to an incredibly racist, anti-Semitic and bigoted church (Garlic noses? ) And he contributed over $20,000 to it just last year.
jward @ 76:
nice try...no "Troll Chow" for You!
From "Blazing Saddles"..."These people are the dirt of the earth, you know, morons."
810expat @ 8:
Very well said. Steve Benen seems to believe the litmus test to being president is to be a Christian which is anathema to being a Muslim. Can Steve Benen point out where in the Constitution it states that an American Muslim cannot become president? The irony is that Benen calls Rev. Wright's remarks inflammatory for daring to speak uncomfortable truths about America while Steve Benen wishes to make sure that a Muslim [gasp!] should never be allowed to set foot inside the White House as chief executive of this country. One expects to read such drivel on a conservative web site instead of on a blog which proclaims itself to be liberal.
dadams @ 45:
Actually it had something to do with Dahmer eating PB&J.
Wish I could find a link. It was on Yahoo.
Clayton @ 75:
Holy sheet thats funny
EliteLemming @ 22:
Racism in America???
Shocking!!
Verdillac @ 77:
Someone who disagrees with you is a "troll".
Would you be saying that if, say, Clinton had been attending a church for twenty years in which the pastor referred to darkies? You'd be on the horn calling her a whore.
Old Billy Hussein @ 11:
That is actually a far right talking point, believe it or not. I have a feeling that most people who believe this are simply ignorant and just don't pay attention....they probably got one of those chain e-mails and took it at face value.
A.Citizen @ 62:
If you are refering to Nadhmi Auchi and Antoni (Tony) Rezko, you can go fish. Neither of those dogs hunt here, Troll. The connections between Auchi and Barack are a game of 6 degrees of separation. Go play your funny name dropping game somewhere else.
Why don't we play the John McCain Adnan Khashoggi and Imelda Marcos triangle? That's a bit obtuse but there are a lot more threesomes to be outed with Cindy McBedStain. First Lady? I don't think so.
Every Key Primary State that has come up- amazingly enough the MUSLIM emails just magically appear right before the Primary....some have an Arlington ISP address...there is nothing worse than making calls for Obama and having to answer these Questions over and over...( BTW I guess Hill thinks she is Tefloned ever since she appeared in all her Self Made Righteousness on the 700 Club....)
It has added a disgusting element to this election....So Rovian...
miss_kitty Hussein @ 15:
You're not helping your guy, Kitty. Christian, Muslim andJewish? That's not gonna fly in Gooberville.
Obama has declared that he is a Christian.
Here's a lovely quote from him that illustrates at once his true devotion to the teachings of Jesus and also
his stanch defense of civil and human rights.
“I’m a Christian, and so although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman.”
Very moving Rev. Obummer.
TypicalJohnny2Bad @ 87:
Wait. There's more. He's also a Librarian, a Contrarian and a Podiatrist.
TypicalJohnny2Bad @ 87:
Johnny: miss kitty likes Nader. just so you know.and the way these two are going at it,I'm looking at him (kinda) too.
leftofcenter @ 83:
Yeah, the "T" word is the last refuge of the Obama-lots. S.O.P.
"Change" you can believe in. Funny stuff.
I'm not sure why people are so upset about the rev.'s comments. Are we saying that the country isn't controlled by rich white men? Saying the country is controlled by rich white men and that Hillary is from a privileged class, never been called a nigger, or had problems just trying to catch a cab is some now reversed racism? We keep voting in the same people from the same caste, and the country over all is getting worst and worst for the middle and lower classes. Not 1 person has been arrested for these sub prime mortgage failures. Not 1 person arrested for violating constitutional amendments and yet we keep voting the same old rich white men in who turn around and stab us ALL in the back a use race as an issue as we scramble for the crumbs they leave us on the ground. When will we learn?
Maybe he should have said it in a low tone of voice instead of shouting. White people can't standing shouting, even more so when black people do it because it reminds them to much of Al Sharpton. lol
There are over 1 million Iraq's dead, 4,000 of us (USA) troops have died, more than 50k wounded in battle, and we're not even going to talk about the number if contractors (mercenaries) who've died since this mess has started. People grow up learning to do unto others as you will have them do to you and what goes around comes around. However, when we grow up these lessons are conveniently forgotten; we act naive when people from other places finally get around to snapping from our constant meddling in their affairs. We play innocent, as if we just don't understand their problem.. all the while we continue to elect the same upper class establishment over and over again.
Our loyalty to these old white men ( this could be any color, it’s just that here they happen to be white) has been and steady weak dollar, a debt we can never balance, corporate corruption at the highest levels, destruction of the middle class, social services damn near eliminated, pro torture, the constitution is a non issue, etc….
Mean while the most important thing is what a rev might have said years ago.
No word on McCain standing behind the nut job rev. haggee for his endorsement…
Too busy trying to see if obama has secrete Muslim blood. Lol I never knew there was such a thing until now.
Interesting..
Another issue, was the story about Obama indicating to the Canadian Prime Minister, through channels, that the NAFTA agreement would not be tinkered with, after indicating to the American public it would be. From what I gathered, it was the Clinton camp that was fucking around with misinformation, but the press let the issue fade away. Am I close to correct on this.
From the accident scene at the intersection of Blissful Ignorance and the Reality Railway no skid marks could be found. Indeed they had the raced express and lost. It was only later the cut brake lines were discovered.
Lionel Jeffrey @ 88:
I do believe that is a right thinkin' quote from Mr. Barack.
I don't want no Jew or no cullid marryin' my sister neither.
mudshark @ 90:
Yeah, I know they're there but "troll" is way, way overused. I learned my lesson on that when Nicole smacked me down....And I deserved it. Ouch.
Being one who is surrounded by these fanatical Chri$tian megga church fucks, I would prefer him to be Muslim. Well, I would prefer him to be smarter than all that shit, but we only have 3 choices of bad. I guess I should be happy he isn't born again.
BTW, wouldn't you have to die to be born again? If that's the case, why don't they just stay dead?
TypicalJohnny2Bad @ 96:
She was right. I don't know about your situation, but some people here have been throwing it around like theres no tomorrow. Just because they disagree with someone else. I won't mention any names , but you know what I'm talkin about.
TypicalJohnny2Bad @ 91:
Hillary's church has so far gotten a pass. Scroll up to #14 and read the whole thing. If someone is to be slammed for what church they go to, hers should be right up front. You can't have it both ways. Hillary's "secret" church, that they aren't allowed to talk about, (sounds like a cult to me) that thinks only the "elite should rule. You know like the rich white men thing the Rev talked about and was apparently right about.
Steve E @ 93:
Look, they (Hillary, McCain and Obama) are all free traders so its kinda a joke on the face of it. Of course, they're all going to back door their friends on the "issues". The funny thing to me was that it was a shock to anyone that Obama was a NAFTA guy at heart. Duh.
Just Hussein Of It @ 97:
Brief and to the point!
But - they are the undead.
This is part of the vetting process. This is GOOD for Obama and the Democrats. Those Obama supporters who have been utilizing Rovian techniques to "force" Hillary to drop out are idiots. Absolute idiots! I cannot believe how naive many my Progressive friends are (and many on this blog)! The Repugs will be playing far dirtier than Hillary. I'm an Obama supporter, but that's despite the idiot Obama fanatics who keep pushing me back (almost) to Hillary! Chill Obamazoids!
Right wing Radio has installed the notion of Osama being a Muslim not television.
GoodGod @ 102:
I like Obama,I really do.I have been against HRC then for her as well.I'm actually leaning towards Sen Obama.But everytime I see the Obama supporters start to bash HRC, I stay with her.
gwen @ 73:
nor about revolution , when not many are willing to give up those big macs , freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose .
There are just not many choices out there and I for one am pissed off , we need a new party , the Amercian Party .
Feel like im in the had basket ! .
Janet Hussein @ 99:
I don't trust anyone who believes in an imaginary friend of any stripe so I couldn't care less what kinda fantasy life they're into. Its all mumbo jumbo.
Too bad there's no "Hell". "Christians are you here'???
Face it there are a lot of stupid people in this country.
Erroll @ 79:
You funny man. "Constitution"?? That got buried in the Reagan administration. So quaint that you still believe in fairy tales, though. Good for you.
The Jeremiah Wright story has been blaring on the news for weeks and you still got people who think Obama is a Muslim?
Maybe people don't know the difference between a Pastor and Imam.
mudshark @ 104:
Mysoginist?...racist?...mysoginist?...racist? Hmmmm, I just can't decide which I want to be this year.
Ageist may be the safe way ta go.
Conservative Media In Action
When will we wake up and realize who is making this an issue? This story lives because the right-wing power moguls want it to. They own the media and have decided the only way they can win in November is to work it against who ever is the Democratic front runner or nominee.
If you recall, MSNBC, Fox news and CNN lead a strong media bias against the first front runner, who at the time was Hillary Clinton. Everything they did favored Barack Obama. The end result of that non stop campaign was Obama is now the Democratic front runner and the conservative target. That is simple, but don't make it complicated. This attack is "time released" and will not stop until the November elections are over.
What is concerning is Obama will not have an equal medium from which he can defend himself. The media goes where their sensational campaigns are focused. Right now, the focus is Rev. Wright and his so-called racist speeches.
Obama numbers will start to fall soon, and if we don't stay united we will lose the chance to seat a Democratic president. It is time the left wake up and maturely approach are options. I would not make this suggestion with an attempt to imply my favorite candidate is our only choice. Unity first dynamics will lead the way. However, the concept starts now. This is a strong site with a very strong collective opinion potential. There is nothing more defeating to unity then coming onto the site having to read childish name calling and all out disrespect of our Democratic candidates. I truly believe there are some Republican moles on this site because some of the claims made about Democrats match the worse Republican talking points originating from the Druge Report.
"I hate you or I love you" thinking is killing the Democrats because it leads to an inability to define gray areas. You don't have to hate or dismiss everything about a candidate to disagree with him. The sooner we make a decision as a Party we will unite the better. Right now, the Republicans are building a strong wedge into the Democratic Party. Unity first.
Joseph
Johnny2Bad @ 110:
I'm soooo confused.LOL!
God damn America, indeed.
"16% of conservative Republicans believe Obama is Muslim."
Come on. This is not a belief. It's an obvious effort to spread Republican propaganda.
No. 44 @ 114:
That just proves 16% of the GOP are dumbfucks
mudshark @ 104:
Honest to god, I wonder if some of those infected with Obama fever really understand how much they sound like right-wing Kood-Aid drinkers. And what a turn-off they are! I understand passion. But I never accept disconnection of the critical mind.
Tom @ 113:
you get a free pass if you are white and say that . Us others ( RADs included ) get burned on the repug cross .
Considering the fact that a certain percentage of the public doesn't know who is President, what can we expect? Like my Mom always said, there are none so blind as those who refuse to see.
Is it just me, or is everyone missing the point ? The point is that some people are just plain stupid, and when they get votes they are dangerous. Well I guess many people have brought that up, but I think the main idea I'm trying to express is that stupidity should be a major issue, and it pretty much does not get mentioned by our so called serious commentators. Bush and Cheney are just too stupid for the job and its obvious but you don't hear that from say, borak obama or hillary clinton or any one really, even Kucinich or Nader. But that is the point and that is what they should be saying. Its not a personal attack if its true. Saying "I disagree with thier opinions" not good enough. Its the stupidity stupid.
George Bush has caused more harm to the country inadvertently than Osama bin laden could ever hope to do deliberately.
dadams @ 19:
See: Ohio
every time a skeptical fellow christian asks me if i believe this crap about obama being a muslin sent to convert america to islam, i ask, "how do you know god's plan wasn't for obama to bring muslims closer to christ"?
that's not what i believe, btw. i just think obama's a really smart, likable guy who's better at building bridges than burning them down.
red @ 119:
On that we certainly can ALL agree (except, of course, those Obama nuts who have now worked themselves into such a tizzy that they now blame the Clintons for everything just as the Repuks have done for so many years).
You know what'd be nice: if his relgious beliefs didn't matter...because he didn't have any. That'd be nice.
The worst threat to DEMOCRATIC presidential campaign, and win, is shillary, all along.
shillary will destroy the Democratic Party and she doesn’t care. all 3 clintons care and whine just abt themselves she had no intention of leaving the presidential race, hours after one senator (Leahy) called for her to drop out and another (Casey, PA) endorsed her rival. Chris Dodd also expressed his concerns.
Mr. Leahy said in the radio interview that he was concerned about the outcome. “John McCain, who has been making one gaffe after another, is getting a free ride on it because Senator Obama and Senator Clinton have to fight with each other. I think that her criticism is hurting him more than anything John McCain has said. I think that’s unfortunate.”
Could C&L STOP rehashing this stale pastor bs, and FOCUS on shillary's destructive mania ?
bullfrog @ 121:
Jebus Fucking Chri$t!!! I didn't really have anything else to say but that. Oh, and to agree with your opinion of Chri$tians believing crap and Obama is a likable guy.
GoodGod @ 116:
i think a lot of us are just chomping at the bit to run an actual opposition candidate on the dem side (for once in our lives).
i also think a lot of us are realizing the dlc was only designed to keep "clintonian leadership" in power.
CappuccettoRosso @ 124:
Do you realize how paranoid/psychotic you sound?
red @ 119:
Ya, thanks for the words of wisdom. Now it's time for your medication and the slap therapy. Just sit here and I'll go get the fish.
MN USA @ 118:
A little off topic , me mum told me " that 2 could live as cheap as one but for only half as long .
David N @ 129:
That's the new math. You obviously didn't learn budgeting in a republicant school.
basically, obama's giving bill clinton the same treatment clinton gave bush, sr. back in '92. and i think bill knows it. i think bill knows he DESERVES it.
There is a U.S. Representative from Minnesota, I believe, who, when sworn in wanted to take his oath of office on the Koran. He was a black man. That is where that particular part of this fable began. The Hussein middle name did the rest.
There are a lot of Americans who are only half listening unless it's about some celeb or sports figure. Those of us who really, actually sort of know what's going on in the world need to become proactive in straghtening out some of the misconceptions out there. The Republicans sure aren't going to do it for us.
bullfrog @ 126:
I am chomping at the bit, as well. But Dems MUST WIN! What I'm arguing is that the vetting process is almost essential if Obama can win it and move us to a much better place. He fully convinced me with his response to the Reverend Wright media blitz. This needed to come out and needs to be discussed further (because there are plenty of potential Obama supporters that are not yet convinced). Those who want to shut it all down now don't have the balls for the long haul!
Just Hussein Of It @ 130:
you are right , from the school of common sense , where they teach the roots and not the higher branches .
the best thing bill clinton could do from here on out is go to his globalist buddies like rupert murdoch and beg them to make sure obama isn't taken out, like senator wellstone in all likelihood was (via EMP one week before the election in 2002).
A college educated bi-sexual coworker of mine asked me the other day if it was true Obama was a Muslim. He was asking me for information because he says he doesn't know who to vote for. I told him maybe it would be better if he just sat out the election if he's that ignorant.
The reason why I point out his sexuality is that he's not some right wing loon. He's a guy that likes men, should have an interest in a liberal supreme court so his lifestyle isn't criminalized.
Rusty Hussein-Legged Mack Daddy Shackleford @ 13:
Thank you!! Logic and reason at last!!!
America is a secular state (thank God, heh) and it doesn't matter whether we elect a Pastafarian to the Oval Office, the Constitution forbids religion in the public sphere.
Now, if only these righties wanting to wave the Constitution in lefties' faces would get. that. through. their. boney. heads. >.>
esther @ 136:
Sorry Ester , your friend is way to self centered , tell him to wake up , does he think only his freedom is at stake here , really who cares if he is gay , so what , FREEDOM is what is at stake .
There are still people that believe the earth is flat. 'nuff said.
Trevor @ 123:
Call me an old cynic, but I suspect that most politicians are about as religous as they are humble....and that ain't many. Religion, like a happy marriage is one of the props needed in the play which is our election cycle.
So, if you are looking for a reason to vote for or against any of the candidates, it would probably shouldn't be your deciding factor.
GoodGod @ 133:
i think you and i may be in agreement -a full-scale, out-in-the-open discussion about religion is long overdue. jeremiah wright brings up things we know to be true -a lot of innocent folks have been killed in our name. that's patently unchristian.
let's talk about hillary's creepy d.c. cult. let's talk about john mccain's new b.f.f., john hagee, an end-timer who is said to believe america oughta launch preemptive genocide on iran.
GoodGod @ 127:
Dear dr Frist - thank you for - as usual- accurate VIRTUAL diagnosis.
shillbots GO HOME !! to arkansas.
plenty of room for additional trailers. you can hate the world from there - cheaper, and the unfortunate locals have the lowest literacy rate in the Union, might believe any lunacy/lies you spill.
What a bunch of bullshit! How many white pastors have ever uttered the same curse on America. What about those who have called down God's curse on New Orleans, San Francisco, New York, etc. But that's okay because they are true blue Americans, where true blue is a code word for white. Hagee has repeatedly cursed this nation for tolerance of gays, Blacks, Hispanics, etc. BTW, Hagee isn't even Christian since the prosperity gospel is false and heretic. Either that or my Bible lies to me saying a rich man has a harder time entering heaven than a camel pass through the eye of a needle.
I also object to the prejudice against Muslims. This nation supposedly was founded on freedom of religion. Those who object to a Muslim being president or Romney being Mormon are guilty of being traitors to the founding principles of the United States of America. Any Muslim who swears loyalty to America is as good as any Christian according our Founding Fathers.The real objection to Islam is that it isn't a White Man's religion, but perceived to belong to brown people, and darkies.
30% of America still supports Bush.
I think if you're a politician, then anything above 65% should be considered 100% of America that matters.
The other day my one of close relatives forwarded me the email below. She's not into politics or committed to one party or the other -- just a middle-class person struggling financially despite being employed in a management position. This email is obviously (to us politically-aware C&L readers) a heap of Republican framing. But to my relative and a lot of other non-political people out there, this email (and similar) gets forwarded to them by friends and they just accept that their friend wouldn't have sent it if it weren't true that supporting Obama is a cult-like phenomenon and Obama's religion is murky and that things like supporting Social Security and universal health care are somehow wrong and anti-Christian. So my question to all of you is: how do I reply to an email like this? How do I reframe this? And keep in mind if you respond, I'm looking to redirect a relative whom I love and respect. If I insult her, I automatically lose the argument. I want to win her over, so it has to be reframing, not attacking.
Here is the Republican propaganda email:
Subject: The Obama Tidal Wave (An interesting read)
The Obama Tidal Wave
We are witnessing a political phenomenon with Barack Obama of rare magnitude. His speeches have inspired millions and yet most of his followers have no idea of what he stands for except platitudes of "Change" or that he says he will be a "Uniter ". The power of speech from a charismatic person truly can be a powerful thing. Certainly Billy Graham had charisma and both his manner of speech and particularly the content changed millions. On the extreme other hand, the charisma of Adolph Hitler inspired millions and the results were catastrophic. Barack Obama certainly is no Hitler or a Billy Graham, but for many Americans out there feeling just like a surfer who might be ecstatic and euphoric while riding a tidal wave, the real story is what happens when it hits shore.
Just Some of What Defines Barack Obama:
· He voted against banning partial " birth abortion.
· He voted no on notifying parents of minors who
get out-of-state abortions.
· Supports affirmative action in Colleges and
Government.
· In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug
dealing.
· Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as
minimum wage affair.
· Admitted marijuana and cocaine use in high
school and in college.
· His religious convictions are very murky.
· He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo
Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
· Has said that one of his first goals after being
elected would be to have a conference with all
Muslim nations.
· Opposed the Patriot Act.
· First bill he signed that was passed was campaign
finance reform.
· Voted No on prohibiting law suits against gun
manufacturers.
· Supports universal health care.
· Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for
Guantanamo detainees.
· Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal
immigrants.
· Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
· Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.
· Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in
Social Security.
· Wants to make the minimum wage a "living wage".
· Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251
votes.
· Is a big believer in the separation of church and
state.
· Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social
Security
and instead supports increasing the amount of
tax paid.
· He voted No on repealing the Alternative
Minimum Tax
· He voted No on repealing the "Death" Tax
· He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax.
· Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not
succeeded.
· He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in
the Senate today and that takes some doing.
If your political choices are consistent with Barack Obama's and you think that his positions will bring America together or make it a better place, then you will probably enjoy the ride and not forward this Email.
If you are like most Americans that after examining what he stands for, are truly not in line with his record, it would be prudent to get off the wave or better yet, never get on, before it comes on shore and undermines the very foundations of this great Country.
We have limited time to save America or the Supreme Court as we know it. Inaction is action.
Vicki @ 143:
I don't recall any other 'spiritual mentor' claiming the Gov't gave the black man AIDS, or any other disease.
McKaren @ 145:
What you may want to keep in mind about this alleged liberal senator is that he has consistently voted each and every time to keep the funds going for this illegal and immoral occupation. As Congressman Kucinich has tried to point out, there is already enough money in the pipeline to provide for the welfare of the troops in Iraq. The point, of course, is that if Kucinich knows this, then surely this [alleged] agent of hope and change must be aware of this also. But still Obama votes to give Bush what he wants and by doing so, ensures that more soldiers will return to this country killed, maimed and crippled, disfigured and dismembered. Obama's actions would seem to be the antithesis of how to support the troops. A true progressive should be loath to cast his or her vote for a political opportunist and war enabler like Obama.
What's wrong with these people? A: they are the US electorate, they voted for Bush - twice. No one should ever underestimate their stupidity, nor the vileness of those who exploit their ignorance or stupidity.
What will it take for them to accept reality? A: It must be espoused in the radical right wing talking points and diseminated by its media and entertainment vassels.
The radical right wing has a communications (propaganda) apparatus second to none. While it pains one to write this, the demos are least 30 years behind countering this with a truthful communications message format and distribution network. Check out, The Republican Noise Machine and Foxes in the Henhouse. The demos should not counter right wing propaganda with left wing propaganda; rather they should calmly and passionately counter the liers with the truth. But to do so the demos need to rediscover the lost art of followership.
Kathy in St. louis @ 140:
Ah , well said Kathy , one cynic to another , some times it is so hard not to point out the obvious ! .
Even if he were a Muslim, that would only make him a man of faith which he has the freedom to choose in this country. The only faith I care for the President of the United States to have is in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
I live in the 5th Congressional District of Minnesota which happens to be one of the strongest Democratic districts in the country. It just so happens that we elected the first Muslim to Congress when we elected Keith Ellison to the House of Representatives. Since being elected, here are a few issues Ellison supports thus fulfilling his oath to the Constitution.
1) Suppports withdrawal from Iraq
2) Supports impeachment against Dick Cheney
3) Co-author of a bill to restore habeas corpus, repeal warrantless wiretapping and shut down the prison at Guantanamo Bay
4) Received A+ grade from the middle class.org group for his votes viewed as favorable to the middle classs.
What should matter more when it comes to governing, Religious Faith or Constitutional Faith?
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