Real Time with Bill Maher: Your Delegate Sensibilities
By Nicole Belle Friday Apr 04, 2008 6:30pm
On Real Time with Bill Maher this week, Bill Maher had some strong words for those who feel that the Democratic nomination race should be decided already.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
And finally, new rule: If voting can destroy the Democratic Party, then the party isn’t very democratic. Democrats need to stop freaking out about how this long primary battle between two popular candidates needs to be “settled yesterday! Because the candidates are bloodying each other! They’re causing irreparable harm! Mommy and Daddy are fighting!” Hey you people need to reach into your teenager’s knapsack and pull out a Paxil or Prozac and chill out.
Democrats, your task is not just to choose between this pair, it’s to grow a pair. Now, I know the idea of a very close race brings up some pretty bad memories for Democrats, but these are Democratic primaries. There are no Republicans in this race, so there is nobody organized enough to actually steal the election. What is so terrible about a long, drawn out contest? A season of American Idol is, what, 87 weeks? That’s a lot of time just to pick out a cruise ship entertainer. This is the presidency we’re talking about. I understand that a lot of Democrats feel passionately about their candidate, and that’s great. But then their passion gets the best of them and they go on websites like DailyKos, and post stuff, like the Obama supporter, who wrote, “I will vote for Hillary, but then I will leave the country.” Yes, because who could live in a nation that elects the person that you just voted for?
And that is what is so great about the internet. It enables pompous blowhards to connect with other pompous blowhards in a vast circle jerk of pomposity. But that doesn’t mean I’m throwing my hat in for Hillary. For one thing, she would say I was shooting at her. And I know she’s going to have a tough time catching Obama, because he’s black and she’s not that fast. But this is America, we don’t call the election before we know who the real winner is. That, after all, is the job of the Supreme Court.
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Yeah and I really hope all the idiots who say they won't support the nominee if their candidate doesn't win are just full of shit.
MagnificentAppendage @ 1:
That's the problem. I seriously don't think they are. This is a campaign like no other. It has been truly vicious. *cough* Mainly from Hillary's side.*cough*
Speaking of "pompous blowhards" Mr. Maher.....
We're in the New Techno Age of instant gratification no surprise patience and poise are a lost art form.
Guitardedkev @ 3:
Yeah but didn't your inner voice suddenly pop up and say, "He's Right" for a nano second?
Billy Maher says, "Democrats, your task is not just to choose between this pair, it’s to grow a pair."
Is there no other way to suggest that democrats should have backbone, show courage, stand for something?
Does he have to rely on referring to male genitalia?
.
America is one big joke in the process.
.
Like Maher or not, he always hits the nail on the head. As for me, I don't want the elites to crown the nominee. the delegates should vote for who their constituents choose.
Ann Coulter has balls???
I KNEW IT!!!
Kudos Bill! Thank you for saying what needed to be said.
Arrow @ 2:
Yeah. Obama has been a real angel.
"Obama's anti-war reputation is a fairy tale." ---- RACIST RACIST RACIST
"It took political leadership to put Martin Luther King's ideas into law." ------ RACIST RACIST RACIST
Right on, Bill Mahr. I'd like to add that the yellow journalism Ms. Huffington now slings like hash is also quite tiresome also. Once again, thank you Mr. Mahr, Mr. Stewart, and Messr. Colbert for keepin' it real.
Here's Bill Clinton’s Ultimate Pitch to the Superdelegates
cd @ 9:
I'll bet that woman doesn't have enough estrogen to pass an olympic gender exam.
This is why she attacks women and women's rights. She can conceive on her own and this is the closest thing she'll ever get to feeling like a real woman.
I hate being 15th is a crisle jerk;(
Don't pick on Ann Coulter, guys. After all, it must be tough being one of the most despised women(?) in the US of A.
Luther @ 6:
Apparently he does. It's what turns him on.
Personally, I like the sound of "Democrats, your task is to show some tits and ass".
Maybe Maher is fixated on male genitalia as being symbolic of personal power, because he's never been in love with a woman who has her own. The Goddess Energy is true power, and American media and entertainment choose not to show it. That's where the real fixation lies, on the patriarchal sociaty paradigm.
Wow, a lot of negative energy in here.
Did he just call me a pompous blowhard or was he talking about yous guys?
Thank You Bill!!!
Some of the folks I've seen in various comments on sites and blogs need to grow up and get over themselves, stop demonizing the other candidate and don't burn your bridges with either one before we've actually won this thing!
I would love to see both Hillary and Barack spending the duration of the primary season (although I do hope it'll be decided before the convention) tag-teaming McInsane.
There's going to be disappointment and hurt feelings once the candidate is actually chosen (although some of us will feel a sense of relief), and we are so close to losing this thing we don't "grow a set" -- now is the time to start turning down the rhetoric and focus on November.
I'd be fine with the primary lasting this long if Obama and Clinton would spend more time competing by attacking McCain rather than each other. That's part of what this contest is for, right--to see who would be best at beating McCain?
And piss on the people who say they won't vote for the other candidate if theirs doesn't win! This is one thing we need to learn from the Republicans; they'll get behind their delegate no matter what, and that's one of the reasons they've won so many elections in the past. If you think either Hillary or Obama are the antichrist and have committed unpardonable sins, you will find out just how fucking naive you were when McCain is president and we go to war with Iran.
Zenrage @ 14:
Do a little research and you'll find she has two legal birth dates.
From what I've heard that's not uncommon for someone born intersexual.
Is Billy Maher still screwing Ann Coulter? Just asking.
Cool! Bill Maher reads my posts!
LOL Albatross.
Luther @ 6:
Yes, a pair of balls,scrotes, bags, teabags, kiwis, or nutsacks is funnier than, say, a pair of eyes.
But he's right, the dems need to sack up sooner or never.
bennyp @ 15:
Dude, i got plenty . I can still throw two-footers.
The general concensus is the Dems have no Balls, and it's sad but true. Bush should be impeached immediately. Just remembering the Repugs antics over Monicagate makes me sick. Now look at what we have now. No money, no future, two wars and a tarnished reputation. What the Hell?
Epic.
“I will vote for Hillary, but then I will leave the country.”
LOL
StirFry @ 27:
"The Democrats need to grow a clitoris" just doesn't have the same ring to it.
MagnificentAppendage @ 32:
How old are you three. 13?
Anyone who thinks the Clinton and Obama campaigns wouldn't reverse their positions on pledged delegates, the peoples' right to vote, etc etc on a dime if circumstances required is truly living in cloud-cuckoo land. Which is getting overpopulated anyway.
Since Hillary began touting McCain's experience over Obama's, she's left a bad taste in my mouth. MMMMMM-Mendacity. But I'm going to vote for her in November, if that's what I have to do. The Supreme Court, the selling-off of the National Parks, the War the War the War--- we don't have the luxury of punishing her, not right now. Later!
So proud to have joined the circle. Everybody! *Will the circle*Be Unbro-ken* By-and-By, Lord, By-and-By.....
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
I meant 2 not luther sorry.
P.D. @ 29:
Yeah, you have to give the republicans credit on sticking together and "gettin' R done." They sure can destroy a country in unison.
StirFry @ 36:
And they aren't even finished.
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
Old enough to know a good joke when I think of one. Now I'd love to stay and troll with you but I have to get some sleep for my newspaper route in the morning.
Bill Maher is one hundred per cent correct. This is America and we have the right to support anyone we choose. But if you go to DU and even so much as hint that you are a Hillary support the hate and vile thrown at you would make someone throw up. And on another site they call you goofy for supporting Hillary.
Isn't it odd that the obama supporters are the only ones I see calling names. If you check Hillary supporters post about their GIRL but they don't flame and slur the obama supporters. I guess it is the type of supporters. And again the last time we checked you are free to support who you want. bush hasn't taken that away from us yet.
First of all, Bill Maher ISN'T a Democrat, so he couldn't care less. Second of all, he's a comedian
(I guess--but often you can't tell it from his material) so he would miss all of this fighting that is tremendous fodder for his lame monologues. Ditto for Leno, Letterman, Kimmel, et. al. That's his REAL motivation. Plus he loves saying we Democrats have no balls; it's part of his shtick.
Fuck! I'm not a blowhard. Just pompous!
MagnificentAppendage @ 38:
Okay don't forget to throw the paper at the door. Not the neighbors bushes.
Yeah, nothing like a bunch of old, fat, white, rich homophobes with an R next to their name to tell the unwashed masses their there for them!
Marge @ 39:
Do you want to read some Obama bashing? Read some of the comments here!
http://www.hillaryis44.org/
He might be right. I'm grabbing the money bear, and don't have time for Rodham-Clinton, Obama, or Maher.
I admit to having flip-flopped on the idea of supporting the presumptive nominee, whomever he might be. And if he is not the presumptive nominee, then I'm not sure who I'll vote for.
On a personal note, and all politics is local, as they say, my problem is that I feel as though I know Bill Clinton well. Indeed, he was good friends with Bill Elder, now pastor of Mountain Top Community Church here in Birmingham, AL. Supposedly a non-denominational church, Mountain Top is clandestinely Baptist.
Mr. Elder started the church with noble intentions, but my family left when we realized Elder had taken nearly $500,000 in loans from Richard Scrushy, former HealthSouth CEO. Elder refused to give the money back, saying that it was God's money now. Scrushy spread his money around to lots of places, knowing it was a matter of time before the Feds got to him.
Acquitted once, Scrushy was later sentenced to prison, tied to a corruption scandal involving then-Alabama governor, Don Siegleman. As a man who voted for Governor Siegleman once, I found him to be a most typical southern politician. In my opinion, he was not a good Governor, nor a good man. If he is acquitted of charges, then I'm sure he has many skeletons in his closet that could send him to jail based on other crooked deals he cut.
Again, I was talking about Siegleman, not Bill Clinton or Hillary Clinton.
God's money paid for a brand new building for Mr. Elder, as well as the edifice complex that goes along with it.
So my dislike of Bill Clinton comes from the fact that I feel as though I understand him well. I wouldn't go so far to say that I can know him by looking into his soul, but rather I understand sleazy Southern politicians fairly well. And I also understand Elmer Gantrys when they appear.
Edit:
I voted for Siegelman twice.
Well Bravo Mr Maher. The only thing that I could take issue with about his rant on the Democrats is the part of their anatomy that needs enhancement. I'd say they should work on their pre-frontal lobes. Whatever ass thought up the idea of superdelegates could have used a swift kick in the nads. Aside from the fact that they are fundamentally undemocratic anyone who ever ran for class president in public school could have foreseen the disastrous consequences that this would lead to in a tight race. Apparently nothing was learned from 1968. Now they are stuck with a corporatist voting structure with non-voting shares (Michigan and Florida), regular voting shares and enhanced voting shares (superdelegates). Anyone with the slightest knowledge of corporate governance knows that companies with this sort of structure spend an inordinate amount of time in court sorting out rights instead of doing what they are supposed to.
The harsh reality is Bill is absolutely right about growing a "pair".
Hillary has a CONSTITUENCY in the Democratic party that SOLIDLY support her whether some people BELIEVE this or not.
Obama also has his own SOLID support especially among young voters.
He has however done himself serious damage with some of us because of his POLITCAL SUPPORTERS in Florida and Michigan who fought hard to DISENFRANCHISED 2.3 MILLION "human beings" who have that trait called Emotion...He honestly should not boast about having the lead popular vote after this development.
There will be consequences for the Democratic Party in these two important BIG states that have a VERY large electoral college tally in November. Anybody thinking after DOING this, it's going to be "kumba yah" and we will just "kiss and make up" is just deluding themselves.
I have seen us loose two past presidential elections NOT for lack of trying. In the run up to this latest one, we have actually damaged our own prospects all by ourselves. It is something that can be remedied, however I fear it may already be too late.
Just FORGET about sitting around a table and SHARING the DELEGATES of those two states based on the input from the two campaigns. At the end of the day, it's not about how Hillary or Barrack feel about ANYTHING. It's about US the voters and how we feel.
If ANY candidate think they CAN win the nomination by Default (it's all about party rules..blah blah jazz jazz etc) and NOT actually go out to EARN the votes of MILLIONS of people in ALL the 50 states is just kidding themselves.
Everybody VOTE HAS to COUNT if there is going to UNITY. Pure and simple.
i'm with Mrs. Polly at #34... ... er, except for that song...
"...Theres a better home awaiting, In the sky lord, in the sky..."
i'm not ready for THAT!
i really like bill maher; he's one of america's preeminent political satirists. he's got more than a little voltaire in him.
having said that, i find it a little disconcerting that he doesn't seem to grasp the difference between hillary clinton and barack obama.
obama's the only democrat in the race. democrats don't vote the way hillary did on the bankruptcy bill, or how she voted on cluster bombs, or for the war in iraq, or for kyl-lieberman.
true democrats represent labor, they don't support nafta, which hillary's husband implemented.
true democrats don't let mark penn, who's firm works for both mccain and blackwater, run their campaigns.
and i'm sorry, but i do believe maher is also going to ultimately eat crow for his volunteer work as a 9/11 gatekeeper.
(not intended to start flame war.)
My sentiments exactly, and I'm an Obama backer.
What's more, I consider anything fair game, so long as it is not designed to mislead the voters (yeah, right.) - with one other qualification: Publicly stating, whether implicitly or explicitly, that the Republican Candidate is better qualified for the job than your Democratic opponent IN ANY WAY is crossing a line that should not be crossed. What's more, if that line is crossed, then it should carry serious consequences with the so-called "superdelegates." I don't care whether you believe it or not. You want to endorse the Republican? Drop out of the race and join him. You want to compete for the Democratic Nomination? Campaign AS A DEMOCRAT.
I wouldn't tolerate it from Obama, and I'm not accepting it from Hillary. Fortunately, it seems to have diminished lately. I certainly hope it stays that way. If it doesn't, she ought to get hammered hard. I'm sure no small portion of that 38% is the result of those kinds of tactics.
Beyond that, hey, have at it. If Obama can't take it, he won't make it. If Hillary can't take a huge head start and beat the Man who came out of Nowhere in the Primaries, then she sure as heck will not be the most competitive nominee in the general.
When it is all done, everyone should pick one of the two remaining legitimate candidates who remain, and support them. This election is too important to spend it sulking.
Abby @ 49:
That is just total B.S. You want to level charges like that, you better come with a 6 page report with footnotes, because blaming your primary issues on Obama is like blaming your oven when you leave the cookies in too long.
Little mystery surrounds the phenomenon of Hillary's ownership of the Moron Constituency.
bullfrog @ 51:
Whatever
don't florida and michigan get to VOTE in NOVEMBER?
give it up... drop the b.s. and move on... so tired of the cheatin'...
if it came down to another actual vote between obama and clinton
in florida and michigan, i'd wager hillary would want to change
THOSE results too...
Abby,
If this "disenfranchisement" was such a big deal, why did HRC wait till now to complain? Really, not a peep from her before either state voted, even though the party's rules and the consequences were clear at the time. Her complaints, mirroring those made in your post, appear more motivated by self interest than by any genuine concern for voters' rights.
That being said, Maher's right. Let the race continue and the votes be counted.
DHSmd @ 53:
Oh come now. Obama wasn't even on the ballot in Michigan, so of course it's all his fault...lol....perhaps all these "Hillary supporters" should maybe take a step back and look at their candidate. What's she done? Lied about her healthcare. Lied about Bosnia. Lied about a pregnant woman getting refused treatment. Lied about her charity donations (they went to her own family corporation)...and topped it off with recommending the opposition party's candidate over her challenger in her own party. Oh ya, no wonder she has all those Bush backer supporters. She is their type of candidate.
bullfrog @ 51:
Obama is as full of shit as Clinton or anybody.
He didn't just support Lieberman - he CAMPAIGNED for him.
He co-sponsored a bill in the Senate which called the Iranian Guard a "terrorist" group - same as Kyl-Lieberman.
He sponsored a bill that would increase emissions of greenhouse gases by 50% in Illinois - kissing the asses of the coal industry.
Etc. ad vomititum.
Abby @ 49:
oh, god. parroting all the hillbot talking points, i see.
let's see if i've got this right. you literally believe the michigan results should stand, even though no one but your gal rodham's name was on the ballot, and even though the rules were agreed to by all well in advance?
got "baghdad bob syndrome"?
and one more thing, please do us all a favor and hit the preview button before you blurt out your inner reality -because unless english is your second language, there's no excuse for your high level of grammatical and spelling errors.
hey, none of us use the queen's english, but you are all over the map.
Uh, Bill, if you really want to speak of a circle jerk of pomposity...
Peterson, A. @ 58:
I also heard he kills kittens, and his daughters aren't allowed to answer reporter questions on his past having anything to do with his credibility. Meanwhile, Hillary ended Apartheid, The IRA war, the Soviet Union, brokered peace in the MidEast, solved world hunger, cured AIDS, AND is currently working on "welcome to earth" platform for the alien invasion!!
Peterson, A. @ 58:
never said obama was perfect, just the best of the three remaining candidates. and the only democrat left in the race.
Paul's Bunions @ 24:
Well he screwed her pretty good in this episode.
Platformless Hussein Obama is on TV speechifiying about something or other.
My question is why don't politicians look us in the eye when they speak? Obama looks toward the ceiling as he spews bald face lies. Fuck, you'd think this snake oil charlatan was counting lights or asbestos tiles.
Fuck it. This crack head is a self ingratiating piece of shit that fainting idolizers swoon over without checking his gutless, soulless, solutionless voting record... 'Present' is not a position.
Any poster here that places 'Hussein' as part of their tag is truly a sheep's dirty asshole.
Piss on it. I have to go. My $150.00 twenty year old whore is in need of a backrub so she can collect to feed her four kids.
katy @ 55:
exactly. anyone who threatens to vote for mccain if hrc loses to obama, let 'em go. let their kids reap what they sow when they vote for 100 years of war in iraq.
it's time dems grew some spines and stood up to the neocon agenda; that much i absolutely agree with maher on.
i just don't think that's going to happen with hillary rodham clinton, who voted for the war in iraq, and who's campaign manager, mark penn, runs a firm that represents both john mccain and blackwater.
bullfrog @ 59:
I see we are taking classes in the English language now here on this blog.
I have passed my message across. That's all that matters Mr English Professor!
Keep up the abuse and name calling Son. That's all you are good at.
Elliot Ate My Pie @ 64:
At least he isn't "dodging" sniper fire, eh? LOL.
.
They're all fucking whores!
...but i can't stay mad at them.
i know they're all just trying to achieve the American Dream
at my expense.
The Clintonites have made a career of telling unelectable candidates to drop out of Presidential races, the claim being that internal division on the left makes it harder to defeat the Republicans. Now that Hillary has no possibility of winning either the popular vote or the majority of delegates, she should accept her own argument and drop out of the race.
bullfrog @ 59:
Grammar and spelling notwithstanding Abby's analysis is correct. She did not say that the delegates from Michigan and Florida should be seated as currently elected. That would be unfair. The failure to correct this problem in a timely fashion will serve no one's purpose. If it is your view that Senator Obama will not need any of the votes of people who currently support HRC to be elected President then by all means continue to insult and scorn them all. It is such a winning strategy.
Peter G @ 70:
Michigan are neither Hillary or Obama's fault....it is their own party problems...they all knew it too...so if they are all that pissed about being disenfranchised, do something about it and vote the bums out...but they won't.
Abby @ 49:
the only message i've received is that you're as emotionally unstable and dishonest as the candidate as the candidate you represent.
and i'm certainly no english professor, i just think your emotional ALLCAPS ranting makes you seem a little flaky, like "baghdad bob".
try taking a deep breath and hitting "preview" before "submit comment".
elliot @64 seems quite experienced with sheep's hind ends...
thas nasty!
ConcernedCanuck @ 71:
But with very little prodding they will vote Republican and that will be a tragedy that could have been avoided.
Peter G @ 70:
Grammar and spelling notwithstanding Abby's analysis is correct. She did not say that the delegates from Michigan and Florida should be seated as currently elected. That would be unfair. The failure to correct this problem in a timely fashion will serve no one's purpose. If it is your view that Senator Obama will not need any of the votes of people who currently support HRC to be elected President then by all means continue to insult and scorn them all. It is such a winning strategy.
peter, "rules is rules". i know it's awfully hard for some of hrc's supporters to own up to, what with the clintons' penchant for making a name for themselves by breaking them time and time again for personal gain, but "rules is rules."
MagnificentAppendage Says: Yeah and I really hope all the idiots who say they won’t support the nominee if their candidate doesn’t win are just full of shit.
================
No one have I met in real life, not a single one, that supports Obama or vice-versa and won't support the other if they win.
Sure, they scoff and stomp their feet but they KNOW it's better than supporting a 3rd term of Bush in McCain.
If there really are people supporting Obama/Clinton that won't support them afterwards, they really aren't democrats at all anyway.
Also, unlike Glenn "I'm an asshole" Beck says... it's not justified to not have Florida/Michigan not vote again. (Sorry for so many negatives). It's utterly insane that we're destroying the very fabric of democracy.
We already have 'superdelegates'... now we're suppressing voters from voting because the party broke a lame rule? I mean, come on.
Peter G @ 74:
If they are that stupid Peter, they deserve whatever government they get, and have no rights to bitch about anything including not having their votes counted.
bullfrog @ 72:
For someone who DOES not start HIS sentences with a CAPITAL letter, You've got a NERVE to talk about other people's ENGLISH.
You are one who seems to have a "flaky" problem NOT me.
I put out my comment about what I think about Bill Maher's comments and you come out attacking me like you are POSSESSED. I obviously hit a nerve, but that's your problem.
Peter G @ 74:
i don't share your lack of faith in barack obama's ability to rally america to the democratic cause. it's that simple.
he's the only democrat left in the race. his opposition to iraqi invasion gives him credibility hillary will never have.
yes, believe it or not, the dems MIGHT run an actual opposition candidate in 2008 for the first time since kennedy.
and, let's face it, the dlc deserves to be marginalized, what with the disgustingly weak candidates they've been trotting out for the last 8 years.
bullfrog @ 75:
peter, "rules is rules". i know it's awfully hard for some of hrc's supporters to own up to, what with the clintons' penchant for making a name for themselves by breaking them time and time again for personal gain, but "rules is rules."
You are right, rules are rules. I don't think the voters of those two states will be inclined to appreciate the distinction. If Senator Obama becomes the nominee, as seems likely, he will have to go to those states and ask for the votes of people he was happy to see disenfranchised in the primaries. This is a gift the Republicans are not likely to leave in the box. And it will be played in other jurisdictions where HRC had support. With the race as close as it is likely to be I think the strategy with regard to Mi and Fl is extremely shortsighted.
bullfrog @ 65:
i have a hard time imagining any true democrat/progressive/liberal actually voting for mcSAME when the time comes...
i call that meme bullshite... just more threats... totally illogical too...
if ANYthing, there will be a mass drop out, no votes at all... that scenario is easily imaginable...
Abby @ 78:
no. i'm just serious as hell about saving my country.
obama ain't perfect, but we can say with certainty the clintons are both now proven liars, who will sell out america (got nafta?).
go on, voter for your gal hill, and then spend the next 8 yrs. bitching when she's paying back all her and bill's political favors to the united arab emirates, wal-mart, raytheon and god knows who else they've taken gobs of money from.
go on, vote for the candidate whose political guru, mark penn, owns a firm that works for both blackwater and john mccain, and then bitch about it when we're still stuck in this quagmire in another 8 years or so.
like i said, we don't know for sure that obama will truly represent real, patriotic americans, but we DO know for sure hillary WON'T.
Peter G @ 80:
You are right, rules are rules. I don't think the voters of those two states will be inclined to appreciate the distinction. If Senator Obama becomes the nominee, as seems likely, he will have to go to those states and ask for the votes of people he was happy to see disenfranchised in the primaries. This is a gift the Republicans are not likely to leave in the box. And it will be played in other jurisdictions where HRC had support. With the race as close as it is likely to be I think the strategy with regard to Mi and Fl is extremely shortsighted.
i guess my glass is half full, while yours is half empty. i'm pretty damn sure we can crush the neocon agenda come fall...
but not if the dems run the stealth globalist republican, bubba clinton, and his lying, enabling stepford wife for a 3rd term.
we're just going to have to go for it. to use a sports analogy, the n.y. giants weren't afraid when they were down to the "inevitible champs", the patriots.
americans crave nothing more than a democratica presidential candidate who will actually drtaw a line in the sand and say, "enough is enough."
and apologies to abby -i've now just tossed out a slew of typos, without spell-checking.
i stand by my points in our debate, though...
Obama did it again... on "Softball" this week... when he said he has been against the war in Iraq from the beginning. My head just about exploded when he was NEVER CHALLENGED on the FACT that he has been voting FOR FUNDING OF THE WAR, right along with Hillary, for as long as he has been in the Senate!
You know, Obama supporters like to say that the delegate count should reflect the popular vote... UNLESS YOU'RE VOTING IN TEXAS! Did y'all notice that Hillary won the popular vote... but Obama got more state delegates. Well, that's just FINE with the Obama-heads here; But if that happens on a national level... they will SCREAM BLOODY MURDER AND CHARGE RACISM till the cows come home. THEY WANT IT BOTH WAYS. Remember, it's the Obama camp that first threatened to DEFECT from Democratic Party solidarity if their guy didn't win... NOT THE CLINTON SUPPORTERS.
As far as Bill Maher goes, he seems to look past the forrest once in a while without seeing the trees. He's already stated his support for Obama, but the one thing I give him credit for is that he's not SCREAMING for Hillary's head on a stick... good for him!
Let it play out. That's what I say too.
Arrow @ 2:
Ehh, it's not quite like no other. Sens. John F. Kennedy and Lyndon B. Johnson were extremely vicious to each other, and ended up on the winning ticket together in 1960. George H.W. Bush coined the phrase "voodoo economics" when running against Ronald Reagan, and they ended up on the winning ticket together in 1980. Ya never know.
bullfrog @ 83:
i guess my glass is half full, while yours is half empty. i'm pretty damn sure we can crush the neocon agenda come fall...
I would be stunned into catatonia if Michigan voted Republican in the general election, even if the Democrats nominated a corpse.
Moreover, each campaign is going to prepare to win the general election without Florida anyway. Not that they shouldn't or won't compete there, but neither will rely on Florida to win.
The ultimate battleground states will likely be Ohio, Virginia and Pennsylvania. If we win two of those three, we will likely win the presidency.
Karen @ 86:
karen, lbj was a kellog-brown-root m-i-c puppet, foisted on the ticket during the '60 convention, who's mistress (as well as e. howard hunt) claimed was in on jfk's assassination.
also, the bushes were family friends with the hinckleys.
VERY important to fully vet your veeps, just like your frontrunners.
i don't have a doubt in my mind that had gore won, he would have been assassinated immediately, in order to install lieberman to carry out the same agenda bush is carrying out today...
IN TEXAS! Did y’all notice that Hillary won the popular vote…
did YOU notice that a BUNCH of those votes were attributable to limpballs' "operation chaos"?
and, nobody's "SCREAMING for Hillary’s head on a stick…"
just asking for honesty and openness...
i'm not necessarily wanting her to get out of this race - it's too close, with too many states left to get THEIR say in also...
but i DO want her to quit with the ROVIAN tactics and the WHORING to her FORMER VAST RIGHT WING CONSPIRACY of SCAIFE and MURDOCH and FOX et al.
THAT's what burn MY azz! i spent a lot of years defending the clintons against that b.s. doncha know... grrr!
Grrr.....formatting.....
bullfrog @ 83:
I would be stunned into catatonia if Michigan voted Republican in the general election, even if the Democrats nominated a corpse.
Moreover, each campaign is going to prepare to win the general election without Florida anyway. Not that they shouldn’t or won’t compete there, but neither will rely on Florida to win.
The ultimate battleground states will likely be Ohio, Virginia and Pennsylvania. If we win two of those three, we will likely win the presidency.
Karen @ 87:
I would be stunned into catatonia if Michigan voted Republican in the general election, even if the Democrats nominated a corpse.
Moreover, each campaign is going to prepare to win the general election without Florida anyway. Not that they shouldn't or won't compete there, but neither will rely on Florida to win.
The ultimate battleground states will likely be Ohio, Virginia and Pennsylvania. If we win two of those three, we will likely win the presidency.
i'm not counting on any dem to win florida, so long as florida's under the rule of the "divine" blood of jeb bush...
we may stage an upset, as i think we will in texas, but i'm not counting on either...
bullfrog @ 88:
I'm not going to get into the various theories on the assassination and attempted assassination. The point was simply that vicious primaries do not necessarily translate into general election losses.
What is with these GRATUITOUS uses of ALLCAPS to EMPHASIZE points which would NEED no emphasis if you would just TRUST that your POINT is valid on the MERITS or at LEAST trust ins some BASIC writing ABILITY.
Allcaps used to be a dead giveaway for a right wing troll.
I Do love how Bill knocked ole Markos on his arrogant a**.
Kingmaker, you ain't, Markos.
What your site has become is a cesspool.
And thank goodness Bill Maher , his panel, and his audience laughed at what you've become.
Thanks, Bill. :)
I think we should all trust ins (sic) our basic writing ability. Oh God, I'm an idiot. Never mind.
bullfrog @ 92
I tend to agree. We're not likely to win either Florida or Texas in the general. Fortunately, we don't need them.
We need two of the following three: OH, PA, VA.
If we secure two of those three, we're very likely to win.
"a vast circle jerk of pompasity".....man he's good. Dennis Miller could only wish to be this good.
Karen @ 93:
right, but my point is that if obama doesn't get his veep right, he may may still win, but he might not last real long once in office.
and i absolutely do not trust the clintons on any level, so i must say i am very, very opposed to the obama/clinton ticket you seem to be suggesting.
Mary @ 95:
Maher was talking about Kos? Not Taylor Marsh?
All is yellow to the jaundiced eye.
I disagree with Bill on this one because a Black man and a woman has NEVER been the last two standing in political contest so you can't overestimate the "passion" of each. I agree this race going this far has been good for Obama as the Wright story coming out now is better than the Wright story coming out in the Fall. But there is a tipping point because it can't go on forever.
Secondly, the more the Democrats attack each other, the less they are attacking John McCain. Therefore, John McCain gets a free ride on all of his gaffes and he gets to define himself before the Democrats do. And each dollar they spend attacking each other, that's one less dollar they are spending attacking John McCain.
Third, who ever wins the nomination, they have to spend some time healing the Democratic electorate. I've said time and time again that a bulk of Obama's support are not loyal Democrats. They are registering Democrat to vote for Obama. They will not turn out in November if Obama is the nominee. I believe that the "blue collar" Democrats will come home no matter what, but Obama needs time to reach out to women and Jews. There isn't enough time between the convention and November to do that when McCain will have already painted him to be soft on terror, antisemetic, and unpatriotic. And Hillary will have a HUGE uphill battle with men, independents, youths and Blacks.
Fourth, the Democrats have a LONG history of losing Presidential races they were supposed to win. Why would they even take a chance?
I'm also upset with Bill over the fact that he was one of the people in the media who was interviewing Willie Nelson and the like about the benefits of biodiesel, and now he's the biggest opponent of biofuels because of deforestation. He asked how the scientists could be so wrong......why was he so wrong?
Allcaps used to be a dead giveaway for a right wing troll.
ha! i did not know that, fiver... now YOU know that's wrong...
i use it to apply emphasis to that word or phrase... and, i'm a lazy typer...
Sorry, in my third point, I meant if Obama ISN'T the nominee.
bullfrog @ 99:
right, but my point is that if obama doesn't get his veep right, he may may still win, but he might not last real long once in office.
and i absolutely do not trust the clintons on any level, so i must say i am very, very opposed to the obama/clinton ticket you seem to be suggesting.
Fair enough. I didn't actually mean to advocate that ticket, though I understand why the examples I chose would evince otherwise. It's not my dream ticket either.
I really only meant to counter the suggestion that we've never seen viciousness like this, and that we really are going to lose because of it. It's a possibility, of course, and I've long been noting that I don't like the way this primary season has been playing out. Long before Edwards dropped out, I was saying that the media would love for a knock-down-drag-out fight between Obama and Clinton while reintroducing St. McCain to a weary public. But as pessimistic as I was back then, I nevertheless don't think it's an inevitable death knell for us.
katy hussein katy @ 102:
as i mentioned last night, there's no one who comments on this site who knows better when to tastefully drop the ALLCAPS than sphinx, who seems to be currently missing in action.
she's the sexiest (she sent me a pic, it's no b.s.) and most persuasive writer who hangs out on this site, bar none. i wish she'd participate a little more in these current debates...
Sheesh, I don't know what's up with the formatting today. Prolly my computer being weird.
bullfrog @ 99:
Fair enough. I didn’t actually mean to advocate that ticket, though I understand why the examples I chose would evince otherwise. It’s not my dream ticket either.
I really only meant to counter the suggestion that we’ve never seen viciousness like this, and that we really are going to lose because of it. It’s a possibility, of course, and I’ve long been noting that I don’t like the way this primary season has been playing out. Long before Edwards dropped out, I was saying that the media would love for a knock-down-drag-out fight between Obama and Clinton while reintroducing St. McCain to a weary public. But as pessimistic as I was back then, I nevertheless don’t think it’s an inevitable death knell for us.
Karen @ 104:
like i mentioned to a poster above, i guess my glass is half-full, not half-empty.
i don't mind the viciousness of the democratic primary at all. it toughens up the eventual dem candidate, and that's pretty important considering what a sack of potatoes welterweight gore and kerry each turned out to be.
let johnny mcbombbomb get a little cocky, i say. we haven't even BEGUN to vet the old coot.
Dude,why did you have to bring up the N.Y. GIANTS.I am a Pats,and a Red Soxs fan.You should have said the 2004 BOSTON RED SOXS,instead.
oh... well... hmmm... ok then... ... movin' on...
Harry Sac @ 108:
hey, i'm a red sox fan, but bill belicheck's a proven liar and a cheat.
L.A. Confidential @ 5:
Not to say the internet does not have its share, but quite often these "pompous blowhards" are seen and heard on television, typically on Sunday mornings.
katy hussein katy @ 102:
Does that mean allcaps is still a dead giveaway?
Just kidding. It's a pet peeve of mine, and I should have kept quiet.
Luther @ 6:
I suppose he could, but testicles are inherently funnier than vertebrae- with the exception of the coccyx.
Yeah, I said it, and I'll say it again: COCCYX!!!!
[FIFY- again. Site Monitor]
Mister Anderson @ 101:
I caught this too and I'd like to hear his evidence to support this "deforestation" claim, which to me is extremely simplistic and overlooks the benefits of biofuels. Sounds like he has bought into the disinformation and greenwash campaign of the oil companies.
katy @ 55:
they do not get a say in the Convetion. They have been disenfranchised from the nomination process
Andy K Jong Il @ 113:
You fixed his coccyx? Again? Wow, this is a full service site. :-)
Mary @ 95:
uh, sorry. gotta call you on your bull$#!+.
when this campaign started, kos gave hillary clinton a fair shake, he really did.
then, she and her husband proceeded to make total asses of themselves.
so, yes, now daily kos would seem to favor obama. and for very good reason.
when's amato gonna make his endorsement?
c'mon, amato, don't be a chicken little like johnny reid edwards, let's all get behind obama and go for it.
the only bridge hillary clinton is gonna build is one back to the twentieth century...
Mary @ 95:
agreed, some of the people there suffer from OCD.on and on and on and on . Now we've got people here talking about conspiracy theories about the assassination of either Sen Obama or Al Gore or even Hillary.I guess some of the people over at KO's got bored with that site and decided to come over here.
Heh. It really didn't take very long at all for HRC's and BHO's supporters to begin insulting each other on this thread. I really hope Maher is correct that the on-going conflict is good for the party, because it's obvious neither side's zealot's can stfu.
Hye bullfrog, how can your comments possibly help defeat Senator McCain? Is Senator Clinton a better choice for President than Senator McCain? Of course she is. Regardless of the fact that you prefer Senator Obama, your constant unfounded attacks on HRC do NOTHING to help. If we're lucky, you're merely an irritant. If we're unlucky, you're giving aid and comfort to the enemy.
Sorry, has Maher apologized for his sexist rant? I must have missed it. Ditto Obama apologizing for Randi Rhodes calling Clinton a "f*cking whore"? Didn't hear that.
Ditto Matt Taibbi aplogizing for his sexist crap.
The silence is deafening.
These people should know better -- but they clearly don't.
Which is a big frickin' problem.
Bob Roberts @ 120:
last time i checked, my team's winning the democratic primary, and my candidate's leading hrc over mccain in every poll.
got reality?
bullfrog @ 122:
Right ... 'Cause once "your team" wins the primary, then Senator Obama automatically gets to be President. Oh wait ...
Bob Roberts @ 123:
Give it up Bob.OCD,on and on and on and on and on and on.
Bob Roberts @ 123:
i said nothing of the sort. dude, i'm a native illinoisan cub fan.
i know better than to make bold predictions of any sort.
obama's going to have to work hard for the presidency -i've never once believed the dem nominee would be a shoo-in.
and btw, bob roberts, do you honestly think a piss-poor wage slave nobody like me can think of any attacks on hrc that karl rove hasn't already formulated?
MagnificentAppendage @ 1:
You absolutely right and very cognizant of the real world. Thank you.
Number 1: Bill Maher is not necessarily informed. He is a tyrant who has a comedy TV show.
Number 2 :The democratic party is not a democracy. Different state parties have decided differently as to how they are going to elect their delegates.
Number 3 :Unless something absurd occurs (Obama is caught sleeping with Bush's daughters) the nomination is already Baracks to lose. The numbers cannot be changed.
Number 4: He claimed he was part of the media.An HBO comedy show that is only on a few weeks a year is supposedly part of the media? I enjoy the show but Bill Maher is not a news show he would change facts and lie just to get a laugh. He want's it both ways. He is funny sometimes and just a bigoted jackass at other times.
bullfrog @ 125:
Wimp. :-)
Cubs in '08!!!!
After all, we won last '08.
Hey Bill, I've enjoyed your shows over the years as much as anyone, and god knows I wish I hadn't said half the things I've put on these discussion sites, but "pompous blowhards" seems a little harsh. After all, we're just trying to be like you, albeit in our humble anonymous unpaid unscripted fashion.
There's no shortage of banality on the web (you're there), but there's also quite a lot of intelligence and compassion, too. Pomposity? I don't know. Not anymore than you find at Thanksgiving dinner with the in-laws -- and it's a lot easier to step out for some fresh air when you need it.
It's a conversation, and typically more rewarding than passively watching someone read from a teleprompter on TV.
I knew Nicole would cherry pick this to post.... How about posting Hillary's plea to Indiana's pledged delegates to switch???
Maybe this is why party elders are calling her to quit... If she were to run a decent campaign I doubt anyone would be asking her to quit .... It's because she is behaving like Machiavelli that people hope she goes away.
Arrow @ 2:
That's just garbage. Barack's campaign has been ENTIRELY "she's too much of a bitch to win the election". That's his entire basis and it's been that way from the start. It was Barack, and not Hillary who first started with the "be a democrat for a day" flyers against Hillary, it was Barack who copied Newt Gingrich's Harry and Louise ad to misrepresent her healthcare plan. And it's also been Barack who has constantly pimped the "she'll do anything to win" meme. Pot, meet kettle.
ConcernedCanuck @ 57:
It, in fact, was actually all his fault. It was Barack Obama, and not the Dnc that took his name off the Michigan ballot. A jockey doesn't get to take his horse out of the race and then whine about losing it after the fact.
Whoa! Bill Maher was the one show I would look forward to all week. What has happened to him? He is not funny anymore. He doesn't have any good guests on anymore and his humor goes beyond what is fair and reasonable. I have started turning him off. This man is "out of touch". Especially, since his phony "concern" about his writers. Maybe they are getting back at him by writing crap.
Somebody needs to set beginning and end limits to all the primaries. This is getting to be too much to handle. With everyday comes a new lie.
Did Bill Maher just make fun of "pompous blowhards"? Now that's funny!
One of the difficulties of this campaign is that Obama is racing against Hillary but Hillary is fighting against Obama. She stays fixed, wasting energy bobbing and weaving, hitting below the belt, frustrated that he's ahead of her, while he keeps on running and gives her an occasional belt when she nips his ankles. They just don't have the same world-view about campaigning, and the difference is glaring to those of us watching.
This is not the political story of the tortoise and the hare but rather the Roadrunner and Wilie E. Coyote as Bill implies below.
Yet we already know how it will turn out -- it's already laid it out for us...
L.A. Confidential @ 5:
Mine sure as hell did!
what strikes me as exceptionally odd, is the utter unwillingness among posters on internet sites to come to any form of consensus or even value one. democracy is not about vanquishing your opponent. nor is democratic governance about enforcing the will of the more powerful. democracy is a conscious and collective (meaning our whole society) form of decision making. to that effect an election is not winner-take all or a mandate to serve only those who voted for you - as bush et al. seem to believe. i fear that we are all falling into this same trap. unfortunately our media discusses politics as if it were a sporting event, i would hope that the 'alternative' media could do better, but too often it just follows the mainstream media's lead.
i am the only one who sees a huge disconnect between obama's rhetoric about unity and solving problems and his internet supporters tendency for divisiveness. maybe it's a lack of debate on the issues, after all how can you reach consensus on an either/or proposition like who should be the nominee - but at least we should be able to come to a reasonable consensus about the process -- which does not mean continually bashing those you disagree with but instead trying to come up with some form of consensus as difficult as it may be.
Arrow @ 2:
I love how eager you are to immediately become a part of the problem you speak of. For the record, that means you're doing the opposite of 'rising above' those vicious little turds.
Furthermore, insofar as supporters are concerned, I haven't seen anything even similar to the hateful language used by supporters of Barack Obama - most of which are hilariously misogynistic. Mind you, perhaps our experiences have been a little different. Still, you've made it clear that you have no interest in unity between Democrats.
I'm not an American, but if I were, I would vote for Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton. And I think that once the primary comes to a close, and individuals are stuck with a reunified Democratic Party versus the usual Republican schlop, you will see a lot of people grudgingly vote for the candidate they didn't initially support.
Paul's Bunions @ 44:
Is that where you go to feel better about your loathing of Hillary Clinton?
I'm asking because I see this sort of rationalization too often. If I've missed the mark entirely, I pre-emptively apologize.
bullfrog @ 62:
No, you implied that Obama was the Man of the People and that Hillary Clinton was (and boy, is this a tired talking-point amongst paranoid and ill-informed voters) actually a Republican in lamb's clothing.
In reality, their voting records and beliefs are remarkably similar. And they're both liberals, which Clinton's career clearly illustrates if you look at more than three or four votes but rather the entire sum.
bullfrog @ 83:
i guess my glass is half full, while yours is half empty. i'm pretty damn sure we can crush the neocon agenda come fall...
but not if the dems run the stealth globalist republican, bubba clinton, and his lying, enabling stepford wife for a 3rd term.
we're just going to have to go for it. to use a sports analogy, the n.y. giants weren't afraid when they were down to the "inevitible champs", the patriots.
americans crave nothing more than a democratica presidential candidate who will actually drtaw a line in the sand and say, "enough is enough."
Dude, you're exactly what Bill Maher was complaining about and now you've proved him entirely right. You're obviously a fairly angry person, but why can't you use some of that energy being outraged by John McCain, who is now leading in the polls? There is no question that he is the worst choice, by far, and that his policies could literally spell the financial ruin of your country. I can't believe that I live in a time wherein the previous statement was not an example of hyperbole.
bullfrog @ 99:
right, but my point is that if obama doesn't get his veep right, he may may still win, but he might not last real long once in office.
and i absolutely do not trust the clintons on any level, so i must say i am very, very opposed to the obama/clinton ticket you seem to be suggesting.
You are in denial. Why? Because earlier you said your glass is "half full," when clearly you are by far the most cynical person posting in this comment thread.
Meat
FWIW, I've thought that if GW Bush can survive in office without somebody doing him in, even with Cheney as his VP, it should certainly not be impossible for other presidents to remain safe, regardless of who their VP is.
As far as I know, American assassinations are not the activity of legitimate political groups who would benefit politically from the removal of presidents, but are usually the work of individuals or small groups of individuals who are, frankly, nuts, and are driven by something other than a legitimate political vision that Americans would gladly adopt.
One more thing. The voting records and campaign platforms of Clinton and Obama may be strikingly similar except on matters pertaining to war, but their character and integrity as strikingly dissimilar. I doubt very much that the two, living in parallel worlds, would lead America in the same direction at all. I think Clinton would be quite willing to unilaterally and illegally drop bombs with no provocation and not give a damn, given her vote on Iraq, the cluster bomb ban, and the Kyle-Lieberman matter. Both camps seem to blur this distinction, but it's very vivid to me.
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
Old enough to get it right.
Well thank goodness this thread is here to completely disprove Bill Maher's ridiculous ramblings about the internet being some kind of circle-jerk of pomposity! And now that I have posted my own thoughtful and well-reasoned musings, I too will consider leaving the country. *sniffs pompously*
P.D. @ 8:
Then why are there super delegates in the first place? (assuming you meant super delegates)
Logic dictates that super delegates are not supposed to just automatically vote for whoever their constituents voted for or they wouldn't exist in the first place.
to Meat @142(and the esteemed editors) ...
Their voting records for a brief period may seem similar, the question is can we trust Hillary? No... Simply because she has been caught choosing the politicially expedient path over the difficult one.. and that is not a sign of a great leader..
Obama's Iraq qar speech might be too little too early (remember the days when Dems were divided between opposing an unjust, unnecessary war and paranoid about being called pussies and too weak to go out and get the job done for America? In those days, Dems were thinking the war would be over in a month and then we will be absent from the celebrations because we opposed the war..) Hillary chose to be for the war so that if Bush didnt mismanage it, she could claim to be tough and be part of the winning american team.. Wise move..? maybe.. Sign of a great leader? NO!
Not to mention all the other lies she has been caught telling and retelling :) I dont see anyone on this site posting those known and proven 'misstatements' but when SNL does a pro-Hill post, certain editors just jump to post it on C&L..
But, wasn't it Obama who said that he could get Hillary's voters but he didn't think she could get his?
And wasn't it Michelle Obama who, when asked if she would vote for Hillary if she was the nominee, said, "I would have to think about that"?
Yes is the answer to both questions. Just love all that "Hope & Change"! These are not nice people.
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