Where's the outrage over Bush's knowledge and approval of torture? Please join C&L and the ACLU: Time to write...
By John Amato Saturday Apr 12, 2008 2:15pmPlease join the ACLU and CrooksandLiars and demand a call for an Independent Counsel to investigate the Administration’s approval of Torture and Abuse.
In a stunning admission to ABC news Friday night, President Bush declared that he knew his top national security advisers discussed and approved specific details of the CIA’s use of torture. Bush reportedly told ABC, “I’m aware our national security team met on this issue. And I approved.” Bush also defended the use of waterboarding.
“We have always known that the CIA’s use of torture was approved from the very top levels of the U.S. government, yet the latest revelations about knowledge from the president himself and authorization from his top advisers only confirms our worst fears,” said Anthony D. Romero, Executive Director of the ACLU. “It is a very sad day when the president of the United States subverts the Constitution, the rule of law, and American values of justice.”
The American Civil Liberties Union is calling on Congress to demand an independent prosecutor to investigate possible violations by the Bush administration of laws including the War Crimes Act, the federal Anti-Torture Act, and federal assault laws...read on
I haven't heard so much as a peep out of the fanboys and villagers about this? Have you? Really, where is the Media on this issue. Why aren't they running segments demanding answers to questions? How often did we hear that Abu Ghraib was a few bad apples? And as we know, John McCain approves of the CIA's use of torture now....I think it's time we start a call/email/fax/letter writing project to demand an Independent Counsel on this issue from Congress and a blitz to the media asking them why they have been silent on this fact. Many thanks to the ACLU for jumping in the middle of this. Also, what is Hillary, Obama and McCain's thoughts on this? They need to weigh in?
Please join C&L and the ACLU in getting the word out:
Join the ACLU and our friends at Crooks & Liars: Call on your members of Congress to demand an independent prosecutor to investigate possible violations by the Bush administration of laws including the War Crimes Act, the federal Anti-Torture Act and federal assault laws.
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They are too scared to confront the Godfather,
Could it be that they know this type of stuff has been going on for decades and that no government official or agency would admit to it before? I don't know, just guessing.
Finally now their calling on the outrage? Where has it been all along. Where was it when this criminal gang said it was "just a few bad apples" - where was it when they put low level soldiers on trial and not a single high ranking anybody was charged with anything?
Maybe it's just that I have been this mad for years.
They're too busy talking about how Obama has destroyed his campaign by mentioning bitter white guys.
The press has their priorities, you know.....
Hey, I tried to sign the petition, but because I'm a US citizen who lives in another country (Canada, in my case) I wasn't able to do so.
Could you please express to the ACLU folks who are in charge my frustration at this problem, which seems to occur with depressing regularlity these days whenever I try to sign petitions against the latest Bu$hCo outrage.
Thanks!
JWW
Niagara-On-The-Lake, ON
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The MSMBS of ABCNNBC&FOXPRAVDA are too busy pandering to Clinton's projection of Obama being an elitist.
My question is what's in it for the MSMBS?
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it's old news...thats why there's no outrage. and ppl really don't give a shit....
Oops, should be...
ABCNNBCBS&FOXPRAVDA
Forgot the BS in the first equasion...
LOL
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Freakaloin @ 7:
BUT WHY?
No, the real question is, why haven't the Democratic candidates uttered even a peep about this?
Mrs. Clinton? Leadership on the Constitution, much?
What about you, Mr. Obama? Or are you too busy trying to prove that you're Christian enough for Middle America to be bothered?
why is the sky blue?
The outrage is right HERE! That's why the other day I sent my Senators and lame ass Rep this letter asking for assistance:
Dear Senator,
Could you or some one on your staff PLEASE help me out. I'm looking at my Constitution. And looking and looking and looking. And I can't find it! Can you or an aide PLEASE point out to me where in it that it says that the President, Vice President, Attorney General, National Security Advisor, Secretary of Defense or their aides can ignore the Constitution and commit Capital Crimes with impunity when ever they feel like it.
sincerely and extremely disgusted,
Terrible
shoephone @ 10:
REMEMBER:
Impeachment is Shhhhh... OFF the table.
This way, none of the candidates has to be publicly humiliated and embarrassed by NOT supporting impeachment.
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[Deleted. Unmitigated BS-Sitemonitor]
Freakaloin @ 11:
Sorry, you're lame then.
Maybe YOU don't give a shit.
And no, it isn't like, why is the sky blue. THAT is a given.
Is it a given that ANY president CAN be a War Criminal?
What does that say about the form of Government that YOU support should you feel that way?
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They'll get away with it.... how ?... easy, they invoke al qaida and everyone turns to jelly.
I've said before and I'll say again: The Bush Administration is guilty of violating the Nuremberg and Tokyo precedents, and should receive the same sentences that we merited out to the Nazis and IJA and IJN leaders. As Joshua son of Joseph said, "By the standard you measure others, so shall it be measured unto you."
John Yoo, Douglas Fife, William Krystol, Karl Rove, and Paul Wolfowitz don't have Secret Service protection do they? Anyone up for a good old fashioned all American Tar and Feather party?
Where is the people's outrage? There is more outrage and protests for the Olympics than there is about your own country and what is going on there. Don't you guys get it - the outrage comes from you - the American people and that is when the candidates and administration talk about it. I haven't seen many protests about the war - it seems it is just an after thought. You're so concerned about Hillary and her miss steps that you're not even seeing the big picture and the administration loves you for it because then they can just carry on what they've been doing for the past seven years. Come on people show some real outrage for what is going on and for some reason a petition I don't think is going to do it.
Fantastic...admissions typically help put criminals in jail. Let's hope this is the case.
Thanks shoephone...
It would be nice to have the Democrats stand up for the American people, but let me remind everyone...we didn't lose Habeas Corpus until they came into power.
Democrats vs. Republicans = False Dichotomy. Unfortunately.
Where's the outrage?
There is none.
Gideon @ 18:
Yes, "Gideon". Great idea. Let's become "them".
Complete the circle of torture. Beeeutiful.
Signed.
Thanks, C&L and ACLU.
Commander Bunnypants -- stupid, strutting, smirking, drunken AWOL frat boy -- is a war criminal.
Excellent, I will pass it on.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 9:
The ball game is on and psssst...Barack is black and an elitist.
foutsc @ 14:
Have you considered that waterboarding HAS.
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=641
The USA successfully prosecuted AND executed members of the Japanese Army for waterboarding...
The USA successfully court marshaled a US servicemen during Vietnam for the use of water torture...
The USA successfully tried in a Federal Court, the case of water torture...
The precedent has been set. Ignoring these facts does NOT make it a legal act. In fact, the precedent has been set high enough, that to excuse it's use calls for formal apologies TO the Japanese, TO the US serviceman that was court marshaled and a rebuke of an Appellate Courts decision. All to cover the president's ass? I. THINK. NOT! If that be the case, ANY form of Government CAN torture our troops and NO ONE can cry foul! NOT EVEN THE LOYALISTS(R).
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Medford Tim @ 4:
CNN Producer to associate producer intern: Put a good looking blond teenage girl in there and the torture meetings get some attention.
Next idea, please.
What? You say Obama might have sneered while looking down on an unemployed Pennsylvanian?
Call Blitzer - now!
Max-Hussein-1 @ 13:
In this campaign "Experience" and "Hope" trump Justice and Dignity every time.
What's so bad about waterboarding, when the U.S. is promoting it as good, healthy athletic competition for the Olympic games coming up in China?
http://www.themorningnews.org/archives/spoofs_satire/lets_catch_the_wave...
We need to look for justice wherever we can find it. We need emisaries overseas lobbying for charges of war crimes to be brought against all these people.
These facts should be on billboards, radio, flyers bumber stickers ... calling for war crimes indictments.
Lets be clear about this. The war in Iraq was a war of opportunity - which is the highest war crime. That standard by the way was established in large part BY THE US.
Remember the solution to similar previous problems - coalitions of nations militarily stopped the aggression and tried those responsible for war crimes. The same should be done now. A coalition of nations needs to militarily expel the US and hold the leadership - civilian and military - accountable for war crimes at the Hague.
John, you need to publish/sell everything from bumper stickers and T-shirts to buttons.
You could organize the graphics and media arts for ads (billboards to radio to TV) and start a net funded (with other blogs) program to disseminate that material.
Otherwise, they will continue the killing until someone cries uncle. What they dont realize is that no one EVER cries uncle. These techniques didnt work in S. America, they are trying them here in the US (so far they are working I am sad to say) and the result of these techniques in S.W. Asia is more blowback.
This "liberal press" is anything but and certainly not journalists. That is apparently a long lost art God forbid that they should have to get up off their fat a$$es and actually take a chance. This country is much more afraid of al Qaeda then it ever was of the Nazis. We've become a country filled with pansies Home of the brave my ass.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 13:
True enough. Anyone waiting for Pelosi, Reid or any of the other so-called Congressional Democratic leaders to make this item #1 is going to get old and gray before that bus that ever comes.
But Congressional timidity isn't a viable excuse for presidential candidates -- not in my opinion, anyway. They don't get a pass on this from me. Recall how much leadership they showed on the FISA bill. None.
I don't expect Anthony Romero to get 30 seconds from any of the networks. Jim Lehrer will give him 15 minutes on PBS while the rest of America obsesses over who will win on American Idol and Dancing with the Stars.
Our democracy is dead. Brought to you courtesy of both political parties. Now have a biscuit, everyone.
Liberal AND Proud @ 25:
Sure is. And a corporatist, and a free trader, and an incompetent.
Freakaloin Says:
because if it was green, we wouldn't know where to stop mowing the lawn.
I have another idea John - which probably wont be read.
Start an e-brary. Make it a collection of articles, links and videos organized and searchable by topic ... so that people can study/research issues online. For example, what are the facts regarding FISA or torture memos or political affiliations of islamic factions in Iraq? etc.
You need an e-brarian. I nominate Nicole.
Information is power.
BitterJohnny2Bad @ 28:
And look at what our "Experience" of "Hope" has brought thus far...
War Criminals running our Nation with the support (see Hillary & McCain's votes on the AUMF of 2002) of the enablers.
Witness, the mandate of 2006...
"Bring the troops home" & "End the Iraq Occupation"
... goes unnoticed.
By the inaugural of 2009, there will be MORE troops in Iraq occupying a sovereign Nation that NEVER posed an imminent threat than there were in 2006, when said mandate was handed from We the People.
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Max-Hussein-1 @ 36:
Obama is no better than Clinton on these issues. He's voted in lockstep to fund this war at every turn.
shoephone @ 37:
This is why I rather enjoyed people laughing at me because I supported Kucinich...
I knew it was they, whom they were laughing at...
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More media deciet plain and simple.
WTF is the ACLU going to do??
Someone needs to stand up for the American peoples right to be HONESTLY informed so we can make propper descisions.
The more we count on the MSM the more fucked up the country becomes. No petition is going to change it!
Look at the kind of rubbish that makes what I call the weekend loop on EVERY news channel...PURE SHIT!
People who steer boats,planes,trains,operate heavy equiptment, construction workers,etc are subject to drug testing and termination for steering people wrong and/or causing deaths.
Why do we not have the same accountability for those responsible for steering our COUNTRY???
Political/MSM deceit has GOT TO GO!
The ACLU isn't gonna do a effing thing about it.
WE THE PEOPLE need to STAND and RID our country of them and their evil roots, the corporations that own them!
Who is willing to step up and help us break up monopolies and clean up lending practices? The ACLU???Thats laughable!
We need someone to point out that the mortgage crisis is NOT about the cost of HOMES it's about the bullshit way of figuring interest rates.
There is no reason under the SUN for this!
Put THAT in your effing petition!
Liberal AND Proud @ 25:
Well, that's what sHillary (R) Clinton says anyway...
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We can forget about the media exposing torture approval at the highest levels. The only person who has any bona fides is the Freeway Blogger. Maybe we should all become Freeway Bloggers.
A: I am
Spartacusthe Freeway Blogger!B,C: I am
Spartacusthe Freeway Blogger!!D,E,F,G,H...: I am
Spartacusthe Freeway Blogger!!!Plenty of outrage here. But as for the average American, I don't think you'll see outrage until gas hits $5/gallon and they lose their cell phones, credit cards, reality TV.... Then you'll see some outrage but it'll be too late.
In a 2005 poll, 55% of Americans said they approve of torture. There's your outrage right there.
He knew? he approved? he just admitted to being a co-conspirator in a crime! How much more do we need? Lets write up some warrants. frog march...hop two hop four.
The outrage is here, this person, a subject of 'enhanced interrogation', done in our name, was murdered.
-HEAD-
Sec. 2340A. Torture
-STATUTE-
(a) Offense. - Whoever outside the United States commits or
attempts to commit torture shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if death results to
any person from conduct prohibited by this subsection, shall be
punished by death or imprisoned for any term of years or for life.
(b) Jurisdiction. - There is jurisdiction over the activity
prohibited in subsection (a) if -
(1) the alleged offender is a national of the United States; or
(2) the alleged offender is present in the United States,
irrespective of the nationality of the victim or alleged
offender.
You need a responsible and honest media to produce the appropriate outrage over the crimes of Bush and torture. Right now media in the US is owned by about 8 people lording over monopolies because of laws changed by Reagan and Clinton. The US is a corporate fascist state and it's people are kept in the dark intentionally, just like in communist China. The quaint days of a democracy full of responsible citizens is for the most part over in this part of the world. Enlightened internet citizens still live that ideal apart from the brainwashed masses. The outrage is mainly on the net where people go to learn the truth.
shoephone @ 41:
The events of Friday and the lack of information about them in the MSM this weekend have finally driven me over the edge. I'm putting up the famous "Impeach." sign in my front yard. This street gets plenty of traffic and they can't take it down.
Cartoon; Bush Backwards on Torture, LITERALLY
http://toddumbarger.blogspot.com/2008/04/wisdom-of-bush-228.html
this is a pretty big story.. the President admitted that he approved torture, and the media's response?
/crickets.
foutsc @ 14:
Wrong.
We (The United States of America) convicted Japanese of this same offense at the end of WW2.
In the future you may want to do a little research before you jump through your ass.
StevePam @ 39:
Steve,
Many things need to and MUST happen for any REAL change to happen.
First: Let's not forget that without the ACLU FOIA request and lawsuit, these memos would still be hidden and classified.
Second: Start locally. Consider a boycott of local news outlets. Consider a strike, of sorts. Demonstrate AT the local news stations. One interview, on air - live... and thousands become more aware...
Third: Openly state and discuss the obvious, ABCNNBCBS&FOXPRAVDA are propagandist corporations. This requires being willing to be spat at, however you'll find a majority in your corner.
Fourth: Write LTE, and write again, and again... until it makes it to print.
Fifth: Call a local reporter up and request an interview.
I hope this gets you started...
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Hassle @ 43:
That was before the revelations of last week...
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Is sad our country even has to discuss this.
No Torture - No Exception
"Condoning torture or even simply condoning practices that are inconsistent with our values puts our troops at greater risk and diminishes America's moral authority across the globe." -Brigadier General Steve Cheney, U.S. Marine Corps (Ret.)
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0801.cheney.html
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0801.torture.html
Obama: Torture and secrecy betray core American values
Chicago, IL | October 04, 2007
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/10/04/obama_torture_and_secrecy_betr.php
Gretchen @ 47:
cool! thats a good start...but I can trump that one!
I will show my outrage by skipping the april 15th deadline!
No impeachment... no taxes!...
If only Bush would say something ever so slightly controversial. Then the media could cover him for 3 cycles.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 51:
Oops,
forgot to state the obvious...
It WAS the ACLU in the first place that helped expose the truth... Why bash 'em for it?
If it's OK for the White House to discuss who to torture and how, why were Lyndie England and all the other low-level torturers sent to jail?
Gretchen @ 42:
You forgot one other thing that WILL outrage Americans across the board...
A NATIONAL DRAFT!
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Peoples Front of Judea @ 50:
I mentioned that in post # 17. We didn't just convict Tojo's boys of this....
we executed them for it.
Chris from Maine @ 49:
I can't hear the crickets because the commercials are too loud! Thats all MSM cares about!
Instead I have to hear shit like HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD! HEAD ON APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!
Then some jackass singing about "free" credit reports followed by some new drug that does god knows what BUT I should ask my doctor about it!
Leslie @ 57:
The same reason SS officers were executed and the Wehrmacht officers, Kripo and Gestapo were allowed to resume their jobs in Germany without fail. Always blame the lower ranks and ignore the higher ranks, or so the thinking was at the time.
Mike @ 55:
Yeah, what is this, a slow news day? Didn't any minor celebrities use any naughty words? Surely someone used the word "poopiehead" in polite company or something.
Oh, wait, look, Britney's been in another car accident!
This is story number 4 on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/13/spears.accident/index.html
Bush torture approval? Not a story.
General_Rennenkampf @ 61:
Yeah, exactly. No story here, nothing to report...
> Our democracy is dead. Brought to you courtesy of both political parties. Now have a biscuit, everyone.
When the Democrats have absolute, unopposed authority, everything will be better. Until then, nothing can happen.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 56:
Thank you ACLU...Always scratching at the surface...never going after the root!
There can never be "old news" with regards to warcrimes.
Warcriminals like Bush and Co should be in the Hague and before they start yet another war and draw us into a conflaguration of World War.
Iran is a good business partner and very reputable. Much unlike the United States and their imperial ways.
Hassle @ 43:
They your country gets exactly what it deserves. Sorry. if they people feel torture is ok, then they will have to be put down as they inhumane bastards they are.
anon @ 35:
Yes it's called "The Memory Hole" and "Whatreallyhappened.com". No offence to John, but they are more open to the real things going on. Such as:
Chemtrails are being brought up in the UN. Japan Italy and the head of the Human Rights Commission are starting a 9/11 Investigation to find out what really occured.
See, outside the US, people are very concerned, much like they were with Germany 60 years ago.
Gretchen @ 47:
You go, girl!
I'm headed out to go buy some black paint...
StevePam @ 65:
One has to scratch the surface to get to the root...
Besides, the ACLU can only expose the crime, not punish it.
Tell your Congressman to pursue punishment... IMPEACHMENT!
Sign the petition to DEMAND an investigation... so as to get to the root.
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shoephone @ 68:
I have the perfect piece of cardboard. It is an oversized political sign that says "Vote Democrat Today". Considering the lack of action we've witnessed from our Democrats after the last election I think this will be a much better use for the thing.
We're simply too damned exhausted to become outraged anymore. Please, God. Let the next Attorney General do what Congress ought to have done and prosecute these Bush admin people. Perhaps if a few of them end up in PMITA prison, it might drive the whole conservative movement to extinction.
No, Obama said that bitter people were bitter. That is MUCH more important news.
Actually, the blame the media song-and-dance is getting old. Does anyone expect that the dominant media of a society can ever be against the status-quo? Change would necessarily occur because humans are monkey-see-monkey-do creatures. The paid media are paid to prevent change. I'm tired of whining about it.
I sure wish either Clinton were present now. Then the media would be all over this.
But of course it's not important. IOKIYAR as always.
Vote McCain and you will get more of the same!
JasonS @ 64:
are you serious?
absolute authority?
unopposed?
you scare me!!!
what about the constitution?
Balance of power?
be careful what you wish for!
foutsc @ 14:
That is just flat out false. Untrue. You're either mistaken, uninformed, or a liar. Japanese officers were convicted for war crimes after WWII because they waterboarded American POWs. That's a well known fact.
I don't want to get into ad hominem here, but I think you could benefit from the advice that it's better to keep your mouth shut and have people assume you're an ignoramus than to speak (or comment) and prove it beyond a shadow of a doubt.
"A man who does not know the truth is just an idiot but a man who knows the truth and calls it a lie is a crook." -- Bertolt Brecht
Max-Hussein-1 @ 69:
Why keep trying to tell them to do what they KNOW is expected of them? Their job!
Can we move past the whining stage and get to the RESULTS phase already?
I want someone with teeth to do something besides investigate...we are caught up in ENDLESS FRUITLESS investigations in this country.
Why should we have to sign petitions no one will heed anyway?
Kinda' reminds me of yelling "Don't taze me bro!" To the COPS.
I am harming myself from reading any more of the Bush presidency/misdeeds. And a mental health day will just not cure it. No one in their right mind could have predicted this happening 8 years ago. I just finished the article in this month's Vanity Fair regarding the torture approval and guess what, NOBODY IS RESPONSIBLE! I am beginning to sound more and more like Lewis Black these days. God help me.
For well over a year people posting on this site have asked the 'big time' lefty bloggers to get behind impeachment. When Wexler was calling for hearings, you, John Amato (and the fFDLers, the digbys, the kossaks, etc) were asked to get behind the effort, to do what was done wrt FISA. That is, call upon all of your readers to get behind an unrelenting effort to get impeachment hearings. But Nada. I guess you, like Pelosi, saw politics and covering dem asses as more important than the Constitution and justice. No concerted effort by the biggy bloggers to have impeachment hearings that would have, long ago, exposed the torture memo and the principals meeting and black sites and... Nope, instead you all took a vacation on impeachment. A few of your contributors, like bluegal, wrote on it, but no real effort by the site owners. Now you want what? Some lame, foot-dragging, no consequences investigation? Pa-f’in-thetic!
JasonS @ 64:
Wait...
Have your forgot WHY the mess we are in TODAY began years ago? The need for a majority in BOTH the House and the Senate WHILE in charge OF the Administration?
How is wishing to become LIKE the Republican majority power structure any better than what they gifted to America? Totalitarianism?
Then go to China, my friend... there, everyone VOTES for The Party...
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john in california @ 80:
Step back a sec. I have posted EVERYTHING Wexler's office asked me to. EVERYTHING. I have a very good relationship with his office and they thanked C&L specifically for bringing them 100K signatures overnight when he first introduced his petition. You need only do a site search on "wexler" to verify.
Let's not start throwing stones without having correct information.
john in california @ 80:
LIMP!
Like the petition Idea!
Lets tackle real issues and STOP FEEDING MSM!They are THE ultimate TROLL!
Who will stand up and DEMAND the media do their job,stop the deceit and PROPAGANDA,expose real problems instead of....OH whats the use................................never mind..............it's just me............I'm wrong..............not enough people care period....
Nicole Belle @ 82:
What was the result?
StevePam @ 78:
Steve,
I know you're frustrated... WELCOME TO THE CLUB.
For true Justice to proceed, there MUST be an accounting, on the record, investigation OF the crimes either singularly or in totality.
Much of this has happened already, as you may be well aware of, however what our Congress seems not to be aware of IS the People.
Your Representative can only represent you to the extent that YOU communicate to him/her. If you do not communicate, how are they supposed to know what you need from them.
In other words, how is your representative supposed to faithful represent the silent?
Hell, I went as far as confronting mine in a town hall forum concerning impeachment. Embarrassed the hell out of him, and so it should have. Less than 30 days later, he became a cosponsor to H.Res. 333. I challenged him, "Why should I vote for you re election if you give tacit support for war crimes?" He retorted, "It's not gonna happen." And I shot back, "It's not gonna happen because YOU'RE silent!"
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Oh, perhaps the media types that were cheerleaders in attacking Iraq in the first place don't see this topic as worth covering because they were largely complicit in setting the conditions to let the torture happen in the first place.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 85:
I am a bricklayer by trade and KNOW what the job expects of me.
If I EVER got to the point that I had to be chased down and embarrassed in order to do the job already expected of me I think we all know how long I would have THAT job!
john in california @ 80:
Well, not entirly true...
There have been 20 headdings under IMPEACHMENT. But still no big push...
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If Bush was on the phone giving his approval for torture while, at the same time, getting a blowjob from an intern...well...THERE'S your impeachment!
StevePam @ 87:
We the People ARE the Boss...
Would it be correct for your boss to NOT tell you when you're slacking?
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I hate to say this, but I'm afraid to sign the petition. They're tapping our phones, reading our emails, watching our internet steps...they've given themselves complete and total power above the law and are accountable to no one. Who's to say I won't end up in an internment camp somewhere in North Dakota???
Max-Hussein-1 @ 90:
Read some of my previous posts because now we're getting into sill talk.
oops. silly talk.
There needs to be a protest, and quick. We need 500,000 Americans on the White House lawn shouting "No More Torture!" and "Bring Back the Constitution!" Just let me know the time and place to meet, and I'll be there. I've already sent letters to my constituents, and to the candidates, but there needs to be more.
#91, I hear what you're saying--I always feel a shiver of fear when I sign similar things--but remember Pastor Niemoller:
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
It's not going to get any safer to speak out as time goes on--only worse. Now is the time to act if there's any hope.
theWalrus @ 91:
You know, Walrus, seven yeas ago I might have thought your sentiments were based on paranoia. Today, I don't think so at all. Like you, I have stopped signing petitions, especially the on-line variety.
14All @ 94:
Useless...they don't give a pluck!
Sign....march...write...thats what weve BEEN doing and WHAT ARE THE RESULTS.
NONE. No enforcement, no standards, no real results no real changes!
Well, then, why don't you go back to bed and pull the covers over your head. We'll wake you when it's over, if there's anything left for you to wake up to.
14All @ 98:
Thats real helpful [deleted--no name calling. What are you, 12?]
Im not here to argue with a punk. Im here to ask for suggestions on how we take back power from MSM/CORPmedia.
[deleted--keep it civil]
The lack of outrage indicates that the MSM, the congressional leadership, the presidential candidates and the American people in general are all complicit. We are condoning torture, if by ommision, to protect our frightened, silly asses from the scarey towel heads. This is not the America that I ever anticipated that I would ever see in my lifetime. A country of fat, lazy weaklings who will drop our constitutional rights and throw our most fundamental morality out the window as soon as there is an attack on our soil. Pathetic!
StevePam @ 99:
I am sorry..I forgot we all have to act like wusses to be taken seriously...right Gore?...right Kerry?
Just like how if they don't like the petition they can delete it.
My speech can be dismissed here as easily as on the toothless petition.
I am tierd of PLAYING petition.Pretending that works.Like voicing opinions and having them deleted!
14All @ 95:
Watch a 21st century artistic version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AO36y78dXAs
Or a more poetic version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMt3p_xDAoU
And then, of course...
Don't Be A Sucker...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23X14HS4gLk
.
There needs to be a protest, and quick. We need 500,000 Americans on the White House lawn shouting “No More Torture!” and “Bring Back the Constitution!” Just let me know the time and place to meet, and I’ll be there. I’ve already sent letters to my constituents, and to the candidates, but there needs to be more.
Useless…they don’t give a pluck!
Sign….march…write…thats what weve BEEN doing and WHAT ARE THE RESULTS.
NONE. No enforcement, no standards, no real results no real changes!
Well, then, why don’t you go back to bed and pull the covers over your head. We’ll wake you when it’s over, if there’s anything left for you to wake up to.
Thats real helpful [deleted–no name calling. What are you, 12?]
Im not here to argue with a punk. Im here to ask for suggestions on how we take back power from MSM/CORPmedia.
[deleted–keep it civil]
Where's the outrage?? Right here!!! I'm G**DAMNED phu*kin outraged. Most are outraged. But what good is it?? It don't mean chit because the spineless Dems, especially Pelosy who took impeachment "off the table", won't do and can't to jackshit. So what are we outraged people supposed to do? The repubs impeached Clinton for gettin a strange peeece in the Whitehouse, but the Bushies commit war crimes and dozens of impeachable offences and the gutless Reid and Pelosy seem to ignore it. We need our DEm leaders to be outraged, then maybe something would happen.
Whoops, put the block quote in the wrong place, sorry.
14All @ 103:
There needs to be a protest, and quick. We need 500,000 Americans on the White House lawn shouting “No More Torture!” and “Bring Back the Constitution!” Just let me know the time and place to meet, and I’ll be there. I’ve already sent letters to my constituents, and to the candidates, but there needs to be more.
Useless…they don’t give a pluck!
Sign….march…write…thats what weve BEEN doing and WHAT ARE THE RESULTS.
NONE. No enforcement, no standards, no real results no real changes!
Well, then, why don’t you go back to bed and pull the covers over your head. We’ll wake you when it’s over, if there’s anything left for you to wake up to.
Thats real helpful [deleted–no name calling. What are you, 12?]
Im not here to argue with a punk. Im here to ask for suggestions on how we take back power from MSM/CORPmedia.
[deleted–keep it civil]
That would almost seem funny if you hadn't posted this to me before:
***Well, then, why don’t you go back to bed and pull the covers over your head. We’ll wake you when it’s over, if there’s anything left for you to wake up to.***
Real helpful....seems like YOU could be the troll here trying to spread a sense of.....heck of a job Brownie...optimism.
Anyone that isn't making noise on the torture issue is no better than the good Germans who looked the other way while crimes were being done by the state. Either out of fear or blind loyalty to a corrupt regime and ideology they became complicit in war crimes. Much like today's Republicans.
14All @ 103:
There needs to be a protest, and quick. We need 500,000 Americans on the White House lawn shouting “No More Torture!” and “Bring Back the Constitution!” Just let me know the time and place to meet, and I’ll be there. I’ve already sent letters to my constituents, and to the candidates, but there needs to be more.
Useless…they don’t give a pluck!
Sign….march…write…thats what weve BEEN doing and WHAT ARE THE RESULTS.
NONE. No enforcement, no standards, no real results no real changes!
Well, then, why don’t you go back to bed and pull the covers over your head. We’ll wake you when it’s over, if there’s anything left for you to wake up to.
Thats real helpful [deleted–no name calling. What are you, 12?]
Im not here to argue with a punk. Im here to ask for suggestions on how we take back power from MSM/CORPmedia.
[deleted–keep it civil]
AMEN!
Nicole, my apologizes for not citing you as well as bluegal but I believe this blog and this thread belong to John Amato. From him, nada. More importantly, noe of the most read lefty blogs made any kind of concerted, prolonged effort to get impeachment hearings started. Certainly not FDL, or digby or kos (ugh). They were not just silent but took some position between ‘it’s a waste of time because we don’t have the votes’ to ‘it’s politically unprofitable because…(a whole litany of reasons). But for telecom immunity in FISA they went to the mat, called each other up (documented by Glen Greenwald) and stayed on it for days until more than half a million emails and phone calls flooded Reid’s office. Perhaps the same effort wrt Conyers or Pelosi would have had similar results. We will never know because they never did. Impeachment hearings should have been the first priority of the left as such hearings could not be stonewalled without objectively showing the American people that this administration thinks our constitutional form of government is totally irrelevant. And that, more than any other issue, is what this election should be all about.
Max-Hussein-1 @ 51:
Steve,
Keep laying your bricks...
We'll do the real work for ya... K?
.
StevePam @ 60:
I know exactly what you mean. Trying to get some news between inane commercials for worthless drugs,especially the one you mentioned. I change from one news channel to another and there it is again. Sell, Sell, Sell with a little news thrown in that is probably just gossip.
THANKS JOHN. Awesome.
Leslie @ 57:
According to neocon logic they were the "bad apples" who got themselves caught on camera.
What concerns me is that a president with an approval rate in the sewer can admit to sponsoring torture and no one lifts a finger to impeach him let alone indict him. We are ripe for the next authoritarian dictatorship where the mechanisms of accountabilty in this country have been utterly erroded away.
Ken @ 111:
Exactly! What we need is the equivalent of the BBC here in the states. Even PBS doesn't come close.
Am I doing something wrong by bashing Corprate Media??
Am I wrong for bashing the slow to non-exsistent results from petitions??
Look at my earlier posts before you knee-jerk respond to the latter oners.
I ASKED FOR SUGGESTIONS BEFORE YOU ASKED ME! I asked who will stand up?You told me to go to bed or something Dumb like that'
Because I think petitions are BS I must be 12...or....you work for MSM.
Because I think we need someone to stand up for Americans I must be a troll...or...you work for MSM.
Maybe you own stock in Head on...I don't know...but your posts read alot like you don't want any action taken beyond the old sign...write...march routine we are confined to.
MSM, large Corps. or trolls are the ONLY ones who should feel defensive about my posts...which one are you?
theWalrus @ 91:
If you do, you'll have a lot of company.
5 White Male, Jew of Liberal Fascism Says: Hey, I tried to sign the petition, but because I’m a US citizen who lives in another country (Canada, in my case) I wasn’t able to do so.
Could you please express to the ACLU folks who are in charge my frustration at this problem, which seems to occur with depressing regularlity these days whenever I try to sign petitions against the latest Bu$hCo outrage.
Thanks!
JWW
Niagara-On-The-Lake, ON
===========================================
From a Canadian living in Korea, remember the old Spiegel catalogue, CHICAGO 60609...??? ("Let's Make a Deal" -- OK I was a TV junkie.) Then I went to the US postal service to get a suffix, as required.
Here's the one I use. It is a US post office, so you're not getting anyone in "trouble".
US post office address
141 West Jackson Boulevard, Chicago, IL, USA
Chicago 60609-2929
theWalrus @ 91:
I just don't care anymore. They can lock me up if they want to. At least I won't have to write any more checks to BlueCross/BlueShield.
Bush has always been a fraud. Now we have undeniable evidence that he is a criminal as well.
Can't we impeach him now?
General_Rennenkampf @ 59:
"WE" did the same things, but as the winners were not subject to the same punishments. "WE" targetted civilians. "WE" targetted necessities of life, on purpose. "WE" need look no further than in the mirror to see the enemy. Torture? Not news. Been going on for decades. Not news, and most populations approve of it when wrapped in a flag and national security. Humans are anything but civil.
StevePam @ 115:
Sadly, signing petitions does nothing. Peaceful protests, does nothing. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Still did nothing, so I understand your frustration.
I am outraged about the criminal actions of this administration. I want desperately to see these acts acknowledged and punished. But quite honestly I am too despondent over the Congress' inability to stand up for justice and too hopeless feeling about what the outcome will be to engage. I have become convinced that in the end, no one will hold Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Rice, Tenet, Powell and the others accountable simply because it's too threatening to the institution of power that grants all of the members of Congress their authority. Congress sees any accountability for this type of behavior as far too threatening to ever take action. Their inaction on impeachment is the single best example. There is simply no reason to believe that anyone inside the United States government will proceed with any action that will produce accountability and responsibility that would make me proud to be an American again. I am sick about it, sick to my very depths. But it's too depressing to stand up and question this kind of lack of moral fiber again and again only to be ignored. The authority that comes with election to Congress seems to drag with it a corruption of principle and a blindness to reality that produces a true Catch-22 situation: The only ones who can hold Bush and company responsible for their actions have, by the process that put them in that position, been made unable to perform their job.
Socrates (in the Apology) spoke of this corruption that comes with being elected to power in his Apology. He described eloquently how those elected to political office become unable to act in an ethical manner. It is sobering, and utterly depressing, to consider how applicable his condemnation of those in power is speaking to us through the centuries. Nothing has changed.
Now there are those who will argue that there is reason for hope, that there are upstanding, ethical citizens who will do the right thing, that we must all work for what is right. And I admit that deep down I do harbor the hope that Obama will be elected, and once elected he will take up the cause to bring this injustice and many others to a corrective course. But I really am not very optimistic. If I were George W. Bush, I would take great comfort in the knowledge that Hillary Clinton would be delighted to be elected as President with the privileges of power that Bush has anointed himself with. I cannot see her ever trying to return the interpretation of the Constitution back to a proper one. And I suspect that conditions will conspire to make it inconvenient for anyone, including Obama, to pursue the ethical course. I deeply hope that I am wrong. But for now, I am too discouraged by the overwhelming feeling that I am right about this to invest much of my time and energy trying to fix a system that is as badly dysfunctional as the federal government. I have written in these blogs before about the need for a national strike, an action that would be so powerful and attention commanding that it could not be ignored. My words have met with nothing but apathy. The government is especially vulnerable right now, with the mortgage crisis, the falling dollar, the quagmire in Iraq. It remains to be seen whether there is any will on the part of the average citizen to take back the authority to act. A national strike would be a powerful action.
For now, I am going to focus on the difference I can make in my own little community, and try not to get more depressed.
I signed.
Not signing is condoning what that Nazi and his little pals did.
Silence is complicity.
Krackonis @ 68:
I think the point of an E-brary at C&L is to organize material that is available here primarily. That list on the left of the page really isnt enough.
ConcernedCanuck @ 121:
Sadly, signing petitions does nothing. Peaceful protests, does nothing. Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Still did nothing, so I understand your frustration.
Quit paying your taxes! Stop feeding the pig.
Dont fund the fascists!
dont fund another internment camp...or another death in Iraq...or another NSA computer...you may sleep better at night (I know I do)
be an american...join with us! (both of ya)
http://www.givemeliberty.org/
....or just keep blogging and voting
I signed the petition and I'm not afraid of anything (which is why I continue to speak my honest opinions on-line).
But as people put there hope in the "election" this November I must bring this to everyone's attention:
http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/144431/us_presidential_ele...
For me, the only solution to this problem is to use paper ballots only with pen, and stay for the count in every voting place.
Of course the other dilemma is the fact that few people actually trust McCain, Obama OR Clinton! I fear the "ruling corporate elite/MSM" have all their bets covered in this race and the American People will again be playing the fools. "I voted! I voted!"
Whatever.
Well, I went to the ACLU site and sent the letter to my representatives.
I'm outraged, too, that the MSM has not picked up on this and made it front-page news. While our convictions that Bush authorized torture are not new, his admission confirming he knew about his lackeys setting it up IS new and is a perfect setup for a conviction for the lot of them by the ICC --Grave Breaches of the Geneva Conventions are considered to be war crimes. If the US doesn't bring charges against these murderous warmongers, other countries can arrest and prosecute them in the ICC, though Bush has done all he could to avoid arrest and prosecution for war crimes at the Hague, to the hilarious point of sending armed forces to the Hague to rescue any American official taken into custody.
Name and address generator
Waterboarding Used to Be a Crime
The problem I have with challenging the criminal Executive branch within the judicial system is they continue to operate with impunity. Their mantra is the same: 9/11 made me do it, har har. Case in point->Detainees barred from challenging torture, abuse
If the "few bad apples" convicted because of Abu Ghraib hadn't plea-bargained their cases, they might have fertile grounds for appeal now.
It looks like Conyers is holding a hearing on May 6th regarding the Bush Administration's position on torture (sorry, honestly...no pun intended there).
What seems to be ridiculous to me is that it appears Conyers has merely "invited" Feith, Yoo etc., not subpoened them to the hearing. Here's a link:
http://voxverax.blogspot.com/2008/04/conyers-invites-top-officials-to.html
signed - here is a link to a song and video my family put together to protest these policies call http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaK3a3XSPA8">Extraordinary Rendition of the Truth - peace John
Gretchen @ 42:
Right on. Most Americans do not give a shit anymore. It`s all one bad acid trip. Just give me solitude.
USA, your administration is a sick lot, basically they are warmongering murderous thieves and evil. In Australia, it is becoming such that even the word "America" is torture to our ears. Just go away or fix it up soon.
sweet F A @ 132:
Yeah, you guys are awesome, right? You guys give equal rights to aborigines, right? They have better lives than blacks here, right? You guys respect aboriginal rights to the land, right?
Please, look at the log in your eye before criticizing the speck in ours.
sweet F A @ 132:
Hopefully we will fix it up soon. Pls keep in mind that while there is ~1/2 of the US population that were bamboozled by Bush's Rovian tactics into voting for these war criminals, there's another 1/2 that are against them. Hopefully (and likely) this year's election will correct course.
133
You are way behind the times on the continuing efforts here to help the aboriginal people. As referred to, the Government is at least attempting to 'fix it up soon", Why? Because the people demanded that they do so, that is one reason why PM HOWARD was chucked out of his parliamentary seat and the government, under our NEW PRIME MINISTER formerly apologised with Parliament for the past misdeeds almost immediately on taking up office.
Now let's see the US (and our past Prime Minister HOWARD [US patsy, now neocon salad bowl collector on tour in the US]) apologise to the Iraqis for killing hundreds of thousands of their people and destroying their homeland to steal resources.
(134) Sorry to half of the US: the word, "A******A" is tortuous. Sorry again, I do not see any change in US admin outlook no matter who wins your election. You appear to be between a rock and a very hard place with some very serious matters to resolve.
I just wrote a letter to CBS, NBC, CNN, and BBC websites imploring them to provide more coverage of this news. Next I'll be writing to my representatives.
The parallels to the Nazi war crimes are astounding. Surely Yoo could reason that he was espousing criminal activity. As far as the Bush administration, they must be prosecuted for their torture activities. I am incensed that the uproar created by the Abu Ghraib prisoner torture was quelled by Bush and bums blaming "a few bad apples" and only enlisted personnel were court marshalled. This can not be allowed to stand. The Bush administration malevolence is commensurate with the worst regimes of history.
Dems are afraid of being called soft on Terrorists. Yeah Torture!
@35 Information is power.
Nope, not any more. Attention is power, and "they" are expert at diverting yours / ours.
No. 44 @ 123:
I was slightly hesitant to sign the ACLU Petition myself since my Republican Congressman, in my overwhelmingly Republican district, would finally realize this registered Republican is actually a liberal. However, it's a very small price to pay for standing up and being counted.
Then again, condemning torture is as American as apple pie. Why should it label me as a liberal?
Thanks everyone, we had a really good turn out on the action alert. I'll be posting about this again tomorrow and all week...
sweet F A @ 135:
That's true, we have done what you said to Iraq. Do I ever expect an apology from the U.S. or trying to fix it? Hell, no, we're the top dog in the world and neither party's gonna screw that over.
Even when it completely ruins us.
To answer your question:
Our outrage changed the composition of both houses of Congress. Our outrage put a lot of Democrats into Congress. Our outrage put Nancy Pelosi and Harry Ried in their positions. Our outrage is trying to keep Hillary Clinton from getting the nomination.
We have done a lot with our outrage. You could say we moved mountains. Sometimes I think it was all in vain.
Gotugye @ 107:
And the similarities don't end here... illegal war -check. People are upset because the war does not go well, and not because it is illegal -check. Villifying a whole population based on race/religion -check. Massive propaganda -check. Secret police -check. Militarism -check.
The leader is a great orator - I think they skipped that one.
torture is not only criminal behavior itself, but allowing the troops responsible for carrying out this policy to be convicted and sent to prison is treasonous. the admission that this policy went all the way up the chain of command to the white house refutes the pathetic claim made regarding a "few bad apples". way to support our troops george. that must be what is known as "taking one for the team". in my eyes, it is nothing more than refusing to take responsibility for your actions. it is truly astounding that this entire administration has not been impeached and tried for their crimes. shameful. history will not only judge this administration poorly, it will also judge the american people who allowed it to happen poorly as well..
Feinstein's response-
"At this time, however, I believe that impeachment proceedings against President Bush will only divide the country even further, frustrating our hopes for a meaningful change in direction, while having little chance of success."
My response to her-
This is why many of your constituents are experiencing a feeling of disappointment with the Democratically held senate and house of representatives. As more and more evidence mounts of war crimes committed in the name of the great United States of America by our highest elected officials, our elected representatives in congress are more concerned with image and emotion than the substance of the charges at hand. Truth and justice are the backbone of our democracy. In the interest of unifying our nation and re-establishing America as the "land of liberty and justice for all", an independent prosecutor must be named to determine if the President and his cronies are guilty of these most heinous crimes.
I received the same response as Vince. I've had enough. I've written many, many letters to Feinstein. I'm done with this. The depth of moral corruption in the U.S. Congress is beyond repair. If approval of torture by the sitting U.S. president is not enough to start impeachment proceedings, what is? Oh right.... lying about a BJ in the oval office is enough.
I have signed the ACLU petition as well. We speak the truth. Thank you John Amato & the rest of the C & L crew for keeping the truth out there.
We need U.N. troops to enter Washington D. C. and arrest or kill off the entire Republicrat war machine. There just isn't anything about this dying craphole of a nation worth saving. We are all little Eichman's and the world will be far better off when this collection of fat, stupid, lazy, violent greedy scumbags is broken to pieces.
Adios, America!
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