Bill Moyers Journal: On Rev. Wright ~ "Beware the Terrible Simplifiers"
By Nicole Belle Friday May 02, 2008 7:00pm
Since this latest round of Obama/Wright mania on the part of the mainstream media was sparked by Rev. Wright's appearance on Bill Moyers Journal (followed by his speech in front of the National Press Club), it is perhaps not surprising to hear Moyers add his perspective on the media circus.
Download | play 
Download | play (h/t Heather)
Wright's offensive opinions and inflammatory appearances are judged differently (than John Hagee, Pat Robertson and Billy Graham). He doesn't fire a shot in anger, put a noose around anyone's neck, call for insurrection, or plant a bomb in a church with children in Sunday school. What he does is to speak his mind in a language and style that unsettle some people, and says some things so outlandish and ill-advised that he finally leaves Obama no choice but to end their friendship. We are often exposed us to the corroding acid of the politics of personal destruction, but I've never seen anything like this--this wrenching break between pastor and parishioner--before our very eyes. Both men no doubt will carry the grief to their graves. All the rest of us should hang our heads in shame for letting it come to this in America, where the gluttony of the non-stop media grinder consumes us all and prevents an honest conversation on race. It is the price we are paying for failing to heed the great historian Jacob Burckhardt, who said "beware the terrible simplifiers".
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The Moyers the better!
Religion, whether of the Left or Right variety, has no place in politics under Article IV and Amendment I. No place. After Massachuttsetts Bay, we don't need a new Puritanism to revive witch trials and genocidal actions. Once was plenty.
I wish Wright would go away. I have no respect for any adult who makes a living telling stories about their imaginary friend. The stakes are too high this time to allow this old fool (and the media) to pave the way for a disastrous Grampa Simpson presidency.
I have to say that I do not include myself in this. The Republicans are the evil take no prisoners assholes that make the rest of us have to defend ourselves and out morals.
History will record that this entire issue was trumped up by the Clinton dirty tricksters and carried on for weeks by the do nothing media. It is another wedge issue to distract the voters from the real issues like Hillary wanting to bomb the hell out of Iran and McSame wanting more wars. It is to avoid addressing the issue of Hillary voting for the illegal and immoral war in Iraq and being non-repentent for six years afterwards. It is a play to the stupid people who vote about hate and prejudice because the media doesn't inform them.
Bill Moyers: You are a breath of fresh air.
Why the Hell is this relevant? There should be no organized religious politics in this country! The last time that happened it was one of the (somewhat minor) causes of the Civil War!
Uhhh, Moyers doesn't make any sense to me. Friendships fray all of the time over conflicting stances, etc. I'd say the break is over conflicting ambitions. Let Obama and Wright deal with this like the two men of power they are. No one needs to hang their heads in shame. The rest of us had nothing to do with this.
I'm not religious but, Amen Bill. Beware the terrible simpletons I'd like to say.
Cover this racket Bill.
Kentucky Derby. Eight Belles, in second place. broke both ankles and was immediately euthanized on the track.
Drugs (for the horses) and gambling (for the fans) keep this whole merry-go-round spinning.
I long for rational thought such as this.
this crap will continue until talk radio is demonopolized or until Americans begin picketing and boycotting their local talk radio stations. it is the only medium that allows the kind of uncontested repetition all over the country 24/7 that can make so may molehills into mountains. TV and print can make stories disappear by not reporting them but only talk radio can turn patriots into traitors and blowhard chickenhawks into commanders in chiefs and authorities on war.
What did Wright say that was so wrong?
Based on a WMD lie, a install democracy lie, a stop Al Qaeda lie -
1 Million Iraqi civilians slaughtered
4 million Iraqi's turned into internal or external refugees
4030+ US confirmed in-country KIA's
120/kw US military suicides (6400+ per year)
$3 Trillion in war-related spending
3 million Vietnamese slaughtered based upon a US lie in the Gulf of Tonkin
58,000 US servicemen killed, 10s of thousands injured, maimed, mentally unstable, homeless
10's of thousands of US troops/airmen exposed to Agent Orange
Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese exposed to Agent Orange
Lies upon lies, upon lies by this government. And more to come.
America's government should be Damned by God.
This is great and it should be shown in all cable news. Specially CNN and Fox. Start a petition to have them show it in the next few weeks.
Agreed, that this whole process is absurd that there should be a special place in hell for the media that has kept this issue burning. Reverend Wright's rhetoric is no different, no less inflammatory and no more hateful than plenty of other preachers, who have enjoyed the confidence and support of our leadership over the years, and who, like Billy Graham, remain beloved figures in our society. The only difference between Wright and these others (Hagee, Falwell and Robertson, Graham) is that the latter are white and Wright is black. I guess we have a little more ways to go to deal with the racism in our society.
Moyers tossed him soft balls but the National Press Club did not.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080503/ap_on_el_pr/obama_working_class_whit...
General_Rennenkampf @ 6:
"Should be" is an ideal.
Organized religious politics have always played a part in the US, to varying degrees. The pulpit has always been used to influence voters and policies.
The temperance movement, the rise of the Christian right since Reagan, etc., etc., belie that ideal.
[Deleted. Off topic. Take it to an open thread, please. Site Monitor]
Kuparuk @ 16:
Yeah, and Prohibition worked so well when those religious nuts got the chance to try it. The "Christian Right" is an extremist definitely protofascist, if not fully fascist by now movement that needs a good spanking. The Christian Left, in all fairness deserves the same treatment.
[Deleted. Off topic. Take it to an open thread, please. Site Monitor]
[Deleted. Off topic. Take it to an open thread, please. Site Monitor]
Bill Moyers a proud member of the 'Clueless Generation'. WTF has this been all about?
If Barry the Clown had stood up when this first started and said,
He would have been the leader, the statesman his deluded cult followers believe him to be. He did not do this so....
He gets to live with being an appeaser, a liar and eventually a loser.
Can't say I'm sorry for the guy as I have no more use for him than a empty can of beans.
The longer this goes on the clearer the divide between those who do have faith, deluded though they may be, and the scheming scum who would manipulate them into the shock troops of a much longed for Theocracy.
A Theocracy which most of the folks who comment here would be bound to the stake for burning. Something to think about the next time some FOOL starts raving about 'reaching out...' and 'religious values are Democratic values...' as Barry the Fool did in that long ago published Time article...remember that do you?
No they are not. The two forms of thought do not mix well.
I take it you're a McCain via Clinton supporter?
A.Citizen @ 20:
In this I agree. Before the Enlightenment secularization, one only needs to look at things like the 30 Years War, the Albigensian Crusade, the infinite examples of religious autocracy in places ranging as far as South America to Japan and Spain and even the Roman and Han empires to look at what a religious government, no matter the Creed produces. Religious politics is a powderkeg for any Elightenment-based civilization...
Peter @ 3:
then spend less time worrying about wright and more time plotting how you'll decimate hagee.
"says some things so outlandish and ill-advised"
According to who? Some republican? America is stupid for letting assholes determine what is news. They won't even discuss in full context what he said.
No one is responsible for Wright's arrogance and foolishness at either the NAACP or the Press Club, but Rev. Wright.
No one is responsible for Obama's 20 years and $22,000 donation/support to such foolishness but Barak Obama.
Martin Luther King taught me I could NOT judge on the color of their skin, but he DID teach me I CAN judge on the content of their character.
Nuff said.
dorothy @ 7:
I'll take a couple of yards for my vegetable patch please.
Obama took Guam...
Mary @ 26:
Obama was a state senator, then a national one. How much time did he have to go to church and do his day job. Chicago is a pretty long way away from Washington D.C. and even if you fly, that would be commented on by Sean Hannity and his ilk as government waste.
Mary @ 26:
Well said.
Leaveus @ 28:
Going to be a recount:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/3/203619/3196
Rev. Wright will remain an 800lb anvil attached to the hip of Obama. The problem for Obama is his dishonesty about his sudden denunciation of the pastor. Rev Wright consistently espouses the same deeply held convictions about black liberation theology he has preached from the pulpit his entire career. Obama has no credibility when he tries to convince the American public that Jeremiah Wright is different from the man he's known for 20 years. Wright's congregation knows he has not changed and Obama knows his pastor has not changed. Obama's rejection of Wright is based 100% on political pragmatism...not moral principle.
Bill Moyers ROCKS! Why is it still so difficult to have a honest conversation re race in 2008 America? Believe it or not, as human being, we are all the same -- regardless of color, ethnicity, or religion! And with that in common, YES WE CAN, have a constructive conversation...
Rebel Patriot @ 12:
Absolutely right on .Everyone who looks at this situation without bias knows exactly what is happening.Our government along with the MSM is ruthless,dishonest,dishonorable,without any homage to the people.Their loyalty is self-serving, Their allegiance is singlely to the upper echelon as they ply the American people with their phony flag,even flag pin waving and Jesus loving as they behave as if they detest even their own children and grand children.I will not feel their shame for them ever again.It`s not my shame,It is their ugly,evil, greedy,disgusting shame that they try to heap on anyone dumb enough to accept it.Until we continue to give it back to them we will be in the constant state of shame before death.I`m not there anymore.I refuse to feel a scoundrel`s shame.
Great post,Rebel.
Frank @ 33:
Uh...I think you've got the last part of that wrong...
It's' no longer 'YES WE CAN.' it's now 'NO SHE CAN'T....' what's the damn problem pal?
Did you not get the memo?
drago @ 32:
Short Form: You cannot trust Senator 'SnakeOil' further than you can throw him.
Short Short Form: Folks in the threads are now comparing him to Bush. His attempt to hide who he really is has fallen apart.
A.Citizen @ 36:
Short, short, short form: He's black. I don't know what is wrong with some people.
More Obama baloney. Everyone is guilty--the public, the press, especially Hillary--because he has an association with a nut job of a preacher. Well, I wouldn't want a member of Fred Phelps' church to be president. I am not happy that McCain feels free to embrace Hagee and his ilk. If Wright is an albatross around Obama's neck, that is no one's fault but his own. It is guilt by association, it is true. It won't keep me from voting for Obama if he is the Democratic candidate, but I hope he won't be.
But at the end of it all, can you really imagine that after 20 years of knowing this man all his recent behavior would come as a complete surprise to Obama?
Do frothing-at-the-mouth right-wing-nutters watch Bill Moyers? I bet he's to elitist for them. Shame.
Ron @ 37:
really short form.....he's black and there are a lot of limbaugh/hannity asssniffers out there.....
35 A.Citizen Says: Frank @ 33:
Bill Moyers ROCKS! Why is it still so difficult to have a honest conversation re race in 2008 America? Believe it or not, as human being, we are all the same — regardless of color, ethnicity, or religion! And with that in common, YES WE CAN, have a constructive conversation…
Uh…I think you’ve got the last part of that wrong…
It’s’ no longer ‘YES WE CAN.’ it’s now ‘NO SHE CAN’T….’ what’s the damn problem pal?
Did you not get the memo?
=============================
Speak for yourself. If you'd like to give up on "YES WE CAN", that's your choice.
sully18 @ 34:
Don't forget that AIDS was given to blacks by the US Government (read: whites in power), and that blacks/whites think differently (according to left/right hemispheres), regardless that most people white or black or purple have percentages of other ethnicities blood running through their veins.
The fact that the divisive nature of this guy's backbone of his sermons serves to force differences on people, and fire up suspicion among people who may not know better, is juxtapositioned against Obama's "post racial" supposed campaign.
I can't believe my fellow progressives would close their eyes and minds just as that 30% of Bushbots have done with bush.
I guess there's groups on both sides that justify, rationalize, and compartmentalize until they experience cognitive dissonance.
Might try reading this...
You might try comprehending this affliction affects some in every political (or otherwise) group...
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Facts don't matter to authoritarians....That's why the media works so damn well...They covered for Bush for 7.5 years, and now a percentage of 'progressives' are just as quick to swallow the EXACT SAME MEDIA'S crap, if it supports their candidate.
trankhussein @ 40:
You got that right. Yoa don't know if they really want Clinton or if they are dittoheads.
40 trankhussein Says: Ron @ 37:
A.Citizen @ 36:
drago @ 32:
Rev. Wright will remain an 800lb anvil attached to the hip of Obama. The problem for Obama is his dishonesty about his sudden denunciation of the pastor. Rev Wright consistently espouses the same deeply held convictions about black liberation theology he has preached from the pulpit his entire career. Obama has no credibility when he tries to convince the American public that Jeremiah Wright is different from the man he’s known for 20 years. Wright’s congregation knows he has not changed and Obama knows his pastor has not changed. Obama’s rejection of Wright is based 100% on political pragmatism…not moral principle.
Short Form: You cannot trust Senator ‘SnakeOil’ further than you can throw him.
Short Short Form: Folks in the threads are now comparing him to Bush. His attempt to hide who he really is has fallen apart.
Short, short, short form: He’s black. I don’t know what is wrong with some people.
really short form…..he’s black and there are a lot of limbaugh/hannity asssniffers out there…..
====================
Even shorter really short form. Put down the Kool-Aid: see yourself for the bigot you are.
32 drago Says: Rev. Wright will remain an 800lb anvil attached to the hip of Obama. The problem for Obama is his dishonesty about his sudden denunciation of the pastor. Rev Wright consistently espouses the same deeply held convictions about black liberation theology he has preached from the pulpit his entire career. Obama has no credibility when he tries to convince the American public that Jeremiah Wright is different from the man he’s known for 20 years. Wright’s congregation knows he has not changed and Obama knows his pastor has not changed. Obama’s rejection of Wright is based 100% on political pragmatism…not moral principle.
===============================
Did you watch the clip.
bitter Edwin Hussein @ 43:
No Kool aid.
candideinnc @ 38:
If Obama is only disowning him for political reasons, why wouldn't Obama have disowned him before? I mean way before when he first had political ambitions? I guy like Whright could only be a political liability.
My guess, is he never really knew his pastor all that well. His real dishonesty is pretending to be a man of deep religiosity. Because Americans would never elect an Atheist, Agnostic or a follower of the IDEAS of the carpenter of Nazareth.
Question to any Christians out there: How well do you know your pastors/priests?
Moyers, it should not be forgotten, was Lyndon Johnson's mouthpiece. He fed us the same b.s. that Bush's "press secretaries" do. I don't know if he has ever apologized for that.
He says that Wright left Obama "no choice" but to disown him.
Horseshit.
Obama would throw his own Mama out the window if he thought it would help his ambitions.
The only people upset with Wright's comments were right-wingers. Obama thinks he needs to kiss their respective
asses. Ergo: exit Uncle Wright. Enter Uncle Sam.
To reiterate:
This is not about race.
It is about Wright's putting on the table that America's decades-long foreign policy has disastrous consequences.
Obama scurries away and hides.
McCain the Liar @ 25:
This is the only truly meaningful part of your statement.
IndridCold @ 47:
The problem is that someone who claims to be Catholic (Sean Hannity) wants to use a few phrases that the pastor used in a sermon that Obama didn't attend to discredit Obama. The real culprit here is Hannity and the MSM that decided to make this an issue. It doesn't matter if they have differences, it only matters that anybody is stupid enough to use in their decision making. Don't let the MSM make your decisions for you, please. Think for yourself.
Thank you, Bill Moyers!
And thank you, Nicole, for posting this.
This primary season has opened my eyes to the racism that still exists, the racism that is still widely "acceptable" and in fact pushed down our throats by the media and the masses as they use words and terms like "electability" and "blue collar workers" and as they show pictures of Obama and Wright together more than apart.
Bill Moyers so clearly and aptly points this out. How sad, though, that the 'silent majority' remains silent and therefore complicit.
Today I saw the movie "Mississippi Burning". Though I've seen it several times before, its' impact is still strong and in the grand scheme of things, 40 years ago is like the blink of an eye. Yes, we have long and far to go in our collective spiritual (not to be confused with religious) evolution.
I too have thought it disgusting that the ignorant and hateful treatment of Pastor Wright and Mr. Obama has caused two friends to be torn apart. They will regret it and ultimately this will be viewed as yet another shameful event in the history of mass media. Had the media only been as relentless about claims of weapons of mass destruction and other lies of the Bush administration.
I still feel like I'm the only one that watched that Press Club appearance and thought '...that's it? That's what all this hubbub is about?'
There was more sanity in that clip than any Robertson, Falwell, Hagee, Haggard, etc. statement out there, and didn't even come close to the vileness that people like Rush Limbaugh, Michael Savage, John Gibson, etc. spout on a near regular basis.
And yet Wright's comments are beyond the pale, oh seriously, are we this easily distracted and naive?
Moyers is right. While some of us did get it, as a collective American Media and the dimmer sectors of the public that swallowed this red herring whole SHOULD be hanging heads in shame for letting this become an obsession when there is more virulent, violent, and vile rhetoric being said without consequence by people with ACTUAL POLITICAL POWER AND INROADS.
Rebel Patriot @ 12:
Exactly. And what is Obama's problem with someone laying the facts out on the table?
Obama showed his true colors when he praised and campaigned for Lieberman.
He threw the cause of ending the war under the proverbial bus.
Now he throws his "uncle" under it.
Can't anybody see through this guy?
Ralthhing @ 54:
Can't you see that the MSM has placed blinders over your eyes and you can only see what they want you to see?
destardi @ 42:
Hold on, I'm not in the US right now, and I haven't seen the media frenzy, surrounding this guy. From what I've heard, let me give you my take on why I don't care...
Some religious figure said a bunch of crazy things.
OK...
What's new? From my point of view, that's all any religious figure ever says. Crazy things!
OK...
But Wright went beyond crazy. He used colorful language and paranoid talk. The gist of what he said is that the white man's been dumping on the black man for 500 years, and maybe black men shouldn't blindly love whitie. And that the white man would do anything to keep black folk down, even AIDS them.
OKAY...
I'm really trying to get outraged here but, I can't seem to get mad about God raining on wet.
Please, please, please explain to me why I should be mad.
Bill should have thought about that before he gave Wright another, new platform. Bill isn't quite practicing what he quotes and is as much at fault for Round 2,345 of this crap as Wright.
It amazes me that we have become so ignorant and narrow minded in this nation that we allow the people controlling the media to think for us. Obama has a voice. He speaks. So does Hillary Clinton and John McCain. Why are the people not listening to them, looking at their records and trusting their gut? It's like we've become one giant cult. It isn't lack of education or lack of moral fiber. My grandfather had an eighth grade eduction and could think very well for himself. This nation has moral fiber. So what happened? Have we become to cowardly to think and act for ourselves? Do the bullies think for us? What is it?
Wow....how the truth hurts. Nice job writing this speech Mr. Moyers. I salute you.
I'm late to this party, but I must tip my hat to Moyers. That was some of the best commentary I've heard in a long time. Reasons, balanced, and heartfelt. Something sorely missing from the vast bulk of the MSM. If we had a few more like him, there'd be a reason to start watching television news again.
Any bets on the first thing Timmeh will ask Obama tomorrow?
drago @ 32:
do you all REALLY think that rev.wright preached and taught that single subject at each and every service?
REALLY?
and it threatens you that much? and why? how?
REALLY?
So again simple minds are trying to blame Hillary Clinton. First for 20 years or more this man has preached hate against whites. He has preached to the congregation to DAMN America. He had blamed us,the American people for an attack on our soil. obama has sat in that church for 20 years listening and by listening has agreed with this man. BUT IT IS HILLARY CLINTON'S FAULT. This is what the whole obama campaign has been about from start to now...when he gets in trouble...blame Hillary.
And this preacher should be allowed to speak his mind....gee how about Geraldine Ferraro who spoke her mind and was skewered in the press and had to resign from the Clinton campaign.
Double standard. The good old boys think obama can spew crap, tell lies, call Hillary all the names he wants, BUT if she dares, dares I tell you try to defend herself she is blamed for all his asinine actions. Typical...typical...kick butt Hillary show the men in this country you are not out....
AND AGAIN I SAY.........IF OBAMA IS APPOINTED BY THE DNC...McCAin will be the next president.
Ralthhing @ 54:
You're so right. Why can't Obama be honest and sincere like Hillary Clinton... (rolling eyes)
Marge @ 63:
No, its just Hillary Clinton's fault that all the sudden I have to hear about it. If you think Wright was "preach(ing) hate against white," you really need to pull your head out of your ass.
ummm... Ferraro was working for the campaign and said that Obama got to where he was only because he was black. Wright was not working for the campaign.
I'm sorry, but I think you got the two black guys confused. Obama didn't say these things, Wright did.
Especially if all the closet racists like yourself vote your fears. Grow some spine, Margie.
Marge @ 63:
And, by the way, Obama has won more delegates, more states, and more votes than Clinton. If he gets "appointed by the DNC" they will just be following the will of the people.
drago @ 32:
Let it go you [Deleted. No personal attacks-Sitemonitor].1st you morons were bitching because Obama didn't repudiate Rev. Wright. Now you people are bitching because Obama finally severed all ties with Rev. Wright. [Deleted-Sitemonitor]. BTW you [Deleted. No personal attacks-Sitemonitor] there's nothing wrong with black LIBERATION theology.
"... it is all about race, isn't it? ..."
Marge @ 63:
REV.WRIGHT WAS INVITED TO THE WHITE HOUSE TO PRAY WITH BILL AND HILLARY WHEN BILL WAS CAUGHT HAVING SEX WITH THE FAT INTERN.
History will record that this entire issue was trumped up by the Clinton dirty tricksters blah blah blargh
...Did someone say something about bewaring "simplifiers?"
I'm sorry. The only "dirty trick" here was that someone gave Wright (pissed off by being tossed under the bus by Obama) a microphone and let him go to town. Trying to spin it any other way just makes you look increasingly moronic.
"Democrats and Republicans are exactly the same!! Al Gore and George W. Bush are exactly the same!! Dean's mean! Kerry's scary! ABC!! Anybody But Clinton!! You're not a real liberal unless you vote for Nader or stay home!! ...Ooooooooo, wait! A black guy who doesn't scare me--spouting empty rhetoric? SCORE!!"
--The "Progressive" Blogosphere Mantra (2000-present)
Obama has lost his best reason for running for president, which was his pitch to voters to leave "politics of the past" behind.
No Obama suporter will ever admit that it's HIS campaign that has put the Democratic Party in such dire straights, and I lay a lot of responsibility for that on Oprah's shoulders. His appeal to young people, African Americans, and better educated voters is like a drug that the party can't bare to part with... BUT DON'T FORGET... he did it at Hillary's expense. Hillary was the ORIGINAL "CHANGE" CANDIDATE... but Obama stole that away from her with complicity from radio talkers and reporters.
When he won Iowa, my first thoughts were this: America will never put somebody in the White House with so little national/international political experience... but the SNOW JOB was ON... and here we are. (Has anybody ever noticed how ugly and mean-spirited Obama supporters get about Hillary when Obama has to start playing DEFENSE?) Some of 'em sound like they're guest-ing on Hannity's Stop Hillary Express.
Obama has a LOT to offer this party... and this country. THIS TIME just isn't HIS TIME.
Marge @ 63:
Marge,
You are just a miserable, bitter, consistently negative Obama hater, no matter what(just like that fool, get a lobotomy). Your bullshit is so predictable and tiresomely dull that it's not credible. And by the way, if anything would insure a McWar Presidency, it would be if Hillary could some steal the nomination....since she decided to be McFraud's bitch during this primary. Good night, Ms. troll.
CowboyBob in Austin @ 71:
are you kidding me? ...
fookin' troolls are just plain creepy...
Bill Moyers....we need more voices like his. On second thought, we need politicians and officials who think like he does.
General_Rennenkampf @ 23:
ya...that godless stalin didnt kill anyone....did he
when are people gonna get it
tyrants prosper under religion and under secularism
let me remind you....sadaam hussein was a secular muslim
case closed
Marge @ 63:
you know, i think the word hysterical is apt in your case
your hysterics have blinded you to the truth
he did not damn america (although many preachers, both black and white do) he said "GODDAMN AMERICA" and in its context, it was not much different than many of the posts here and on other progressive blogs during the katrina fiasco
you say he has been preaching anti white hate from the pulpit for 20 years....yet the msm can find only 3 occurances, taken out of context, of this supposed hate speech
he says that the country is run by rich, white men.....you are female, is this statement not true? or are the rich white and black women who really run the country hiding behind some shrub.
you bemoan what happened to ferraro. im sorry, but what she said was innapropriate...and to make matters worse, she said it on 3 occasions.
other than annie oakley, what names has obama called hillary....what crap has he spewed, what lies has he told?
the clintons have been successful in taking this campaign into the mud
for years, i defended the clintons...i admired both bill and hillary...i did not believe that they would do anything to win...i thought the triangulation of the second term was being done to preserve most of bills programs
i now see that i was wrong
the clintons do not care about the dem party...nor do they really care about the country
they care about their own personal power
what makes it even sadder, is that hillary has deluded so many women into believing that she is their last great hope.....but im sorry, she will sell the women in this country down the river just as quickly as she sold the progressives, who only last summer she was hailing
Mary @ 26:
Well done!
uncle joe hussein mccarthy @ 76:
Boy those Clintons. If they were every thing you say they are
you would think that she would be winning. Go figure.
uncle joe hussein mccarthy @ 76:
Thank you Uncle Joe for your deeply stated comments. Like Bill Clinton from another generation "I feel your pain". I too was a Hillary supporter until South Carolina. Supporting Hillary after her and Bill's behavior would go against everything POSITIVE the voting experience should bring after their Rovian tactics. I just can't support the woman. Even her followers(Marge, SM, getalobotomy, Dennis,etc) express the same depressing negativity at this site.
jace @ 78:
Like I was saying, these negative, sad people have nothing positive to say....avoid them at all costs....they'll bring you down too. Obama '08.
jace @ 77:
Oh' Blah! Martin Luther King, Jr. also called America "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today" and made clear the connection between the rotting fish head and the rest of the rotting fish (government sponsored violence and violence in the rest of the population). Wright has made similarly jarring pronouncements and observations.
If King were here today he'd be getting the same condemnations that Wright is getting now just as he (MLK) received then. It is only AFTER the fact (after death) that some people want to co-opt and distort the things he said to suit their own misunderstanding of what he was all about.
ahh yes. and no one is more responsible for these "terrible simplifiers" than news networks who boil everything down to a 5 second sound-bite.
how can anyone possibly come to an informed opinion based on a 5 second sound-bite plus news folk telling you what to think? honest and thoughtful conversations are being actively discouraged by most main-stream media.
Someone upthread asked for a Christian's viewpoint...Well, I attend a church so here's my two cents.
1. I like my priest, but he thinks GWB is a great Christian and he supports McCain. I honestly don't know how he, as a Christian, can hold these views and support the party of torture, but he does. However, he does not preach on politics. He generally does not push any politically sensitive issues (e.g. abortion). He is personable and I like him, and I like the other parishioners (who are more liberal than the priest). So I keep attending that church. I cannot see how I could be held to be responsible for my priest's political views, or every fool thing he says. I am a different person than he and have my own opinions.
2. Rev. Wright's style does not scare me because I've been to black church services before, and I do understand what Obama said about the effect of discrimination on Wright's experience. As an Anglo, I probably have a better understanding of the daily discrimination faced by minorities, because my husband, though Anglo as well, has a dark complexion and has been stopped for "driving while brown" and is usually the one pulled over by TSA at airport security. If he has had these incidents occur sporadically over his lifetime, how much more do others suffer when their race or ethnic background is not in question? Obama by his heritage and experience understands the fears and distrust by whites and blacks, but also the commonalities that can bring us together.
Do not be fooled by the media. They are playing kingmaker. The corporations that own our airwaves are politically connected with Republicans (and some Democrats). First, they killed Edwards' campaign over a triviality. He tried everything he could to get them to focus on his message, but all we heard was "anger" and "haircut". Then, they went after Clinton with such misogynistic language and hatred, I was shocked that the women on their staffs went along with it. Next, they tried to figure out ways to go after Obama. The only thing that they have found to criticize him on is something that his pastor said.
We have to make our decision: Do WE decide the next POTUS, or do the media corporations decide it for us?
i still have no idea what rev. wright said that was so outlandish. he spoke the truth, and in an evenhanded and compassionate way. no one who actually saw the speech (outside of the truly ignorant, so uninformed about american foreign policy that they might think wright was making things up) could help but find it moving...
the vilification of rev. wright is a vilification of progressive politics, period. obama should be ashamed for caving in to the pressure put on him by the corporate media.
Once again, Bill Moyers fulfills the role of compassionate, articulate sage commentator that was formerly the mantle of the sadly departed Kurt Vonnegut Jr. His calm watch over the moral disintegration of the political and social landscape should be the Paul Revere call out to us all.
May your God bless you Mr. Moyers, your humanity echoes within our own humanity and makes us all feel a little less alone.
I love Bill Moyers. He is a righteous person who always speaks he truth as he sees it.
Jeremiah Wright, on the other hand, is a narcicistic bloviating blowhard who sees the world only from the "black liberation" theology. Okay, I agree that blacks got the short end of the stick in America -- discrimination, in addition to slavery, that's hard to overlook.
But then, by going to the National Press Club and publically dissing Obama as "political," he was consciously damaging Obama -- for what? His own personal pique?
Granted, he's a charismatic speaker, but, in reality, he's a shitheel and a total traitor to Obama. Reverend Wright is the Gennifer Flowers of this election. He's going to be seen as a footnote and a total scumbag (which I believe he is).
So many apologists for obama; he said judgement counts and words matter. I watched the Rev Wright for an hour last weekend, then his new conference with that Q&A --- fuck me, wack a doddle do shit. He argued that the races learn by different sides or our brains. This is the brilliant man who was obama' mentor and pastor for 2 decades. The obama fan club on Crooks and Liars act outraged at the unfairness of all of this. Are they truly kidding --- of course it's not fair -- IT'S POLITICS. And now obama and his pastor are breaking up on television -- with such snippy shots at each other. Honestly, how can this be a good public relations moment for obama's campaign. We are two months into the Rev Wright two-step and there is no sign of the Rev getting out of the spotlight. Hillary Clinton has no dog in this hunt, although she has to be smiling. This is self-inflicted obama campaign horsepiss. And if obama gets lucky this next Tuesday, and wins Indiana and North Carolina --- maybe he can reinvent himself before the republican swift-boaters turn on the big guns; but obama supporters, what if he loses?
Marge @ 63:
So what are you complaining about? That's obviously your goal anyway.
dorothy @ 7:
The rest of us I believe takes in the media. They began this story and to this day continue pushing it. Obama's historic speech after that has already been reduced to sometimes being mentioned. The media enjoys "the bitching" over solutions.
Marge @ 63:
Do we have a RNC operative in these boards? Marge are you being paid to stir-up sh*t in liberal blogs? I refuse to think an actual Hillary supporter would be this crazy.
Guys, I'm beginning to think we're being "operation chaos-ed" right here. Over the last two weeks or so, I've seen some really crazy trolling going on. I think some right wingers are trying to pick fights between the Obama camp and Hillary camp by making each other sound absolutely crazy. Moderators at C&L should start cataloging our ips. Start with mine and continue with marge here.
Beware the terrible simplifiers.
Indeed, and that goes for both sides of the political fence.
Unfortunately, the assault on reason and the trend toward idiocracy is not limited to the right.
lacrimose @ 83:
Thanks for answering my question. That's exactly what I thought an HONEST Christian's answer would sound like.
I'm an atheist, former Christian my self, my former religion does not have churches. We conducted all of our meetings in our house and in friends houses 3 times a week. I've been with friends to white and black dominated churches before a few times and I got to say the experience is completely different. Black preachers are allot more vocal and "political" than white preachers. I think it's probably fair to say that no matter what black church Obama had attended you could find some really controversial things the preacher had said.
Can some one who attends a black congregation confirm or refute this?
Also, I agree that your preacher's view is not your view. In my case, back when I was a Christian, my preacher was my FATHER as well. Even in this case , his views are not my own. My Father is a crazy right winger. None of his political views reflect my own. Even so, at the time I couldn't just leave my "congregation", and I love my father even though he's crazy.
In Obama's case I see the same thing. He had a pastor who was a little nutz. He didn't want to have any thing to do with him politically because he was a little nutz. Well he took this long to disown him because his pastor betrayed him. Much the same way I would disown my own father if he had betrayed me like that.
Anyways, I also believe that everybody in this board understands this. I'd be weary of people who say they don't. I've posted before, I think we may be flooded with RNC trolls in this board.
uncle joe hussein mccarthy @ 75:
I know Stalin killed loads of people, but his godlessness is atypical. Guy dropped out just before graduation from seminary to become a Bolshevik. His background as a priest shaped a very religious Communism. The Soviet Union had a civil religion and a cultus imperatorum like Rome did.
As for Saddam, most leaders in the Middle East are secular. But by the same token, Islamism and Christianism are easier kept under wraps in a police state like North Korea than under UK and US democracy. The world's not as simple as people make it out to be.
Bill Moyers nails it as usual, a true voice of reason and decency. It's such a shame we don't have more journalists of his calibre and integrity in the MSM.
Isome Hussein @ 81:
Well said. As a 72 year old, black, Korean war vet I know how America villifed MLK during hid life and he preached peaceful demostration.
I get a little angry at Moyers for wasting his time on PBS all those
years when he should have been in public office. Right now he should
be on NBC or MSNBC at the least. I realize he's getting up there in years which
means he doesn't want the pressure. Imagine Keith, Bill and that there lawyer fella.)
radlib1 @ 86:
AMEN!!
Congratulations, Democrats. You people could fuck up a cup of coffee. That much is obvious now. There's no excuse for this.
And I don't believe for a hot minute that anyone with a shot at the presidency is going to end the war or restore our great traditions. While the Republicans gleefully wallow, Democrats hold their noses and swallow, but at the end of the day the same shit ends up happening again and again.
Party of change? Please. With all that's going on, THIS is the most critical, nuanced, detailed and point-having conversation that you all want us to be having? Crazy preachers, Bosnian vacations, lapel-pins, pantsuits and bowling scores?
Sickening.
When you stand back and look at how many people in the United States don't get passed the sound bites and don't reason into the complexities of men and media, you come to realize how truly stupid Americans can be.
Thank you Bill Moyers for your honest and clear appraisal.
Thank you Rev. Wright for your passion and imperfections and speaking your truth to power.
I'll be voting for Obama, but I really think Jon Stewart should be the man.
Its weird that all the winning Obama does doesn't seem to increase his chances in the eyes of some people. Even when Hillary wins, she wins by a hair's breath, when he wins, its often overwhelming. The only kind of counting that even gives her a lead in anything intentionally ignores or rules out whole states and communities. Come on folks, lets be rational about this; particularly in a thread on the irrationality of religion in politics. Its rather hypocritical for you folks to continue this absurd delusion about his "slim changes".
And as to the comment that all he needed to do was say its "none of your business" and it'd have all gone away, if you really believe that I've got some ocean front property in Kentucky to sell you.
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