FOXNews Sunday: Dean Calls FNC "Shockingly Biased"
By Nicole Belle Saturday May 03, 2008 12:10pm
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I've said it before: Democrats need to stay the hell off FOX. Not because we should be afraid of their questions, but because it legitimizes a clear and overt propaganda unit of the RNC. And frankly, when Democrats do stay off FOX, it gets under their craw, and forces them to do WATB tactics like the Obama Clock. And that worked well for Democrats until just recently, and then both Democratic presidential contenders appeared on FOXNews Sunday. Now it is DNC chairman Howard Dean's turn to try to contextualize host Chris Wallace's crowing that Democrats are now appearing on FNS. The problem is that he just didn't do it strong enough.
Dean: No, I think it was the right thing to do (boycott Fox debates and appearances) because there are some things in the news department that really have been shockingly biased. And I think that’s wrong. And I’ll just say so right up front, but it is important also for us to not…we shouldn’t punish the viewers of FOX by staying away. Now those viewers have had an opportunity to look at the debates on other channels, now they're going to have an opportunity viewing on this channel and I think that's fair.
Are you kidding me? The network that aired the "Dean Scream" ad nauseam should be given a place in the Democratic primary race?
Wouldn't it have been better if Dean had been tougher when he decided to go ahead and appear on FOX and said something to the effect of "the Republicans have done such a poor job of managing this country that their party is falling apart, and we wanted to go to the one network that we know caters to conservatives and try to get some truth on this network, so that the voters understand that conservative politics--such as FOX News advocates constantly--are not in their best interest. So I'll give FOX a chance to show that 'fair and balanced' is more than a catchy phrase to fool their viewers."?
Transcripts below the fold
Wallace: Governor, not to say that we’ve been counting, but it has been nineteen months since you’ve appeared here or on any FOX program. How do you explain the fact that in less than a week—and we’re very happy to have you—Governor Dean and Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton have all shown up on FOX?
Dean: Well, first of all, your audience is important to us. There’s…a lot of your audience are working class Democrats, the kind of people who will vote either way and we’d like them to vote Democrat. And second of all, you gave us a fair opportunity to talk about Sen. McCain’s record. The truth is, is if ordinary people in this country knew what Sen. McCain believed about the economy and about Iraq, they wouldn’t support him. And that’s one of the reasons the Republicans have put such a big fuss about our ads. It’s because those ads really move independent voters. Sen. McCain is an honorable person, he served this country with great honor during the war, but Sen. McCain is not the right person to lead America into the future…
Wallace: Governor, again, I’m going to bring you back. We give you plenty of time to bash McCain. The left wing of your party is in a snit, over all these Democrats appearing on FOX. In fact, the head of MoveOn.org had this to say about Democrats on Fox: “It legitimizes a right-wing network that is going to use that celebrity to smear them—the Democrats--in the general election.” He and the head of the DailyKos are using words about you guys showing up here as “weak”, “idiotic”, “stupid”, how do you respond to the left wing?
Dean: What I say is this: we stayed off FOX for a long time because your news department is in fact biased. But Chris, you haven’t been. We’ve always…you’ve always been tough, but I always thought fair and I still think that’s true. And we need to communicate with people who are going to vote in the Democratic Party. Hundreds of thousands of Republicans have turned their back on their own party to vote in the Democrat primaries in the last six months. We owe it to all the American people to reach out to those folks. So this is not about FOXNews, that’s not why I’m here today. I’m out because I want to talk to your viewers directly about why this election is important and what we can offer the American people.
Wallace: And let me ask you, and obviously it’s always about the millions of people who watch these shows. Looking back, do you think it was a mistake for the Democratic party to boycott FOX debates and all the other programs during the last year, and thereby boycott getting your message out to the millions of people who watch?
Dean: No, I think it was the right thing to do because there are some things in the news department that really have been shockingly biased. And I think that’s wrong. And I’ll just say so right up front, but it is important also for us to not…we shouldn’t punish the viewers of FOX by staying away. Now those viewers have had an opportunity to look at the debates on other channels, now they're going to have an opportunity viewing on this channel and I think that's fair.
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Republicans appear on MSNBC which is very pro democratic. The democrats look like total wimps for not appearing on Fox. You know the coverage on FOX is going to be biased but it is by far the largest cable network in terms of viewership and its really weak for the democrats to write it off.
Brian @ 1:
Stop drinking the kool-aid Brian. MSNBC pro-democratic my ass!
Yes, if Democrats go on FUX News, they should come armed with instances of bias, and go on the attack. Absolutely. It'll even work with the FUX News viewers who like strong personalities who stand up for themselves. (As Bill Clinton said, Americans prefer strong and wrong to weak, but right.)
When Bill Clinton looked Wallace the Lesser in the eye, and told him off, he emerged the victor despite media's attempts to brand him as having inappropriately lost his temper.
Why aren't the Democrats doing so now? If I had to guess, I would say that the calculation is that, with Indiana and North Carolina coming up -- two very red states -- now is the time to capitulate a bit, and show those FUX watchers that they don't write them off as unimportant. To attack at this particular time can only make FUX angry early, and risk a push back now instead of later.
Whether the calculation is smart is debatable. I just hope that if any Democrat goes on FUX News during the general election, s/he is in hyper attack mode.
Wright '08=Dean scream '04
Now that MSNBC is WORSE THAN FOX, why shouldn't the candidates go on Fox. The propaganda for Obama on MSNBC is ridiculous. The O'Reilly's interview with Clinton was super.
Obama's turn!
Brian @ 1:
Republicans think that anything that is not explicitly for them is biased against them.
Only to people who buy what FUX sells them. To a lot of people, they look like wimps for being bullied into appearing on FUX News.
Its ratings are declining, thanks in part to a growing sense that it's not real news. When Democrats learn simply to say, "It's not real news," and move on, that sense will grow.
Brian @ 1:
Where on MSNBC are they "pro-Democratic" , exactly , besides Olbermann and Rachel Maddow , who is a guest on various shows ?
Floridiot @ 4:
If it's not Wright, it'll be something else.
This just in:
NewsWeek
With friends like these who needs Republicans?
Karen @ 3:
Really ?
How many Americans prefer Chimpy's idiotic (and illegal) invasion and occupation of Iraq now ?
It is beyond time that the American public learns that actions based upon stupid decisions has critical consequences ....................
"Wallace: Governor, again, I’m going to bring you back. We give you plenty of time to bash McCain. The left wing of your party is in a snit, over all these Democrats appearing on FOX. In fact, the head of MoveOn.org had this to say about Democrats on Fox: “It legitimizes a right-wing network that is going to use that celebrity to smear them—the Democrats–in the general election.” He and the head of the DailyKos are using words about you guys showing up here as “weak”, “idiotic”, “stupid”, how do you respond to the left wing?"
I love the tone.Wallace(a "newsman")characterizes Dean's criticism of McCain as bashing.The Leftwing of the party is in a "snit".Of course these are Wallace's biased opinions.In the very next paragraph Dean pronounced FNC biased but quickly assures Wallace that he is not.Well no,Howard.He IS biased.Utterly.Biased.
At any rate,why is any of this news worthy?
Is Dean on FOX to be interviewed or to be interrogated?
Dean should have turned things around by asking Wallace how he "responds" to the charges of being a right wing "smear" out fit.FOX has sooooooooo much to answer for,yet THEY are demanding answers like this?
MCMetal @ 10:
Just so, and I'm deeply disappointed in Dean. He's really screwed up by the fukin' numbers with his toadying to Barry the Ignorant over MI and FLA and now this.
Just another loss to the Dead Loser Caucus.
Get ready for McSame....
Then maybe, maybe, the rank and file Dem Caucus will wake up to the fact they are being 'led' by wankers, idiots and fools.
hood @ 2:
MSNBC. Yes, that's the network that has run at least 8 times so far according to my count since Friday, Dan Ambrams' "Special Report" on Obama and Rev. Wright.
MCMetal @ 10:
I'm referring to campaign ethos, not post hoc analysis of actual decisions.
Yes, the vast, vast majority hate the war.
Does that majority match the majority by which either Obama or Clinton will beat McCain -- or would even beat Bush were he eligible to run again? Nope. People will still vote for the candidate with their preferred ethos, policies and consequences be damned.
Brian @ 1:
Chris Matthews has claimed herr dubyah is Lincoln-like and said herr dubyah should be on Mount Rushmore. Chris Matthews said the only people that do not like herr dubyah are the far left crazies. Chris Matthews said America likes war and AMericans like this war and women like this president. He said women like a president with some swagger and who is simple. Yeah.....that's a lot of Democratic propaganda.
A.Citizen @ 12:
Stop it! Stop injecting the bickering between the two Democrats' camps into every friggen thread! Dean biased for Obama. MSNBC biased for Obama. Clinton getting a pass for bas behavior. Stop it already! It's making C&L a very unpleasant place to be.
Why not just boycott the entire U.S. Corporate "News" Media for that matter? And if the old guard still offends...
No matter what FOX News says, we Americans will always remember GWB as this.
http://www.rollingstone.com/news/profile/story/9961300/the_worst_preside...
Kieth Olberman is pro Democratic Party but i am hard pressed to name anyone else.
Any help?
Should Republicans post on C&L?
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 19:
Moyer? Maher?
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 19:
Nope! Every once in awhile I got the feeling Schuster might lean slightly left but since he got his ass whooped by Clinton he is very neutral.
For a cable show, Fox draws lots of viewers. They vote. If you go on a military base, tv's are EVERYWHERE, even in the commissary. And they are almost all tuned to Fox. If we want to win an election, we have to put forth a candidate who can win not just Joe- intellectual who follows the news, but Joe- average who watches American idol.
Most Americans don't even have a clue who McCain is. We'd better have a candidate on Fox letting them know the other side of McCain.
Another liberal media lie....
No link.
More liberal lies.
Elite media feeding lies
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 21:
Moyer is PBS and a hero of mine. But he had to come out of retirement to fight the bullshit he sees in the Corporate Media. Maher is a Republican.
JTM @ 20:
If they can do so without using numerous expletives and Lies they are free to voice opinions anywhere. But they mostly just come on here to Flame and Troll for emotional responses.
Speaking of MSNBC, I wish they would take David Gregory off the air. The man can hardly sit in his chair when smashing Dems. How did he get from dancing with the Prez to being talking head.
It was Hillary Clinton that showed the spine to go on and talk to the millions of Americans that watch Fox News.
There is your real unity.
JTM @ 20:
Of course they should, but i would prefer it if they would stick around and have a serious argument rather than arguing in circles as so many of them have in the past.
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 25:
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 26:
That wasn't my question.
My question wasn't whether C&L should allow them to post here.
My question was whether it would be in their interest to do so.
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 29:
So do you agree or disagree with the idea that Democrats shouldn't go on Fox?
Most suprising in this encounter was that Wallace didn't come to the defense of his own network against the the charge that the network's news department is totally biased. I'm sure Wallace will pay for his negligence. Forgo the limo for two weeks?
The reason Clinton went on Fox was because the shockingly Obama bias with Obama hacks like Jack Cafferty and Keith Olberman.
That is the real story.
right arm, Howard!!!!!!!!!!!!
getalife @ 28:
Uh, unity is forgetting all about the total and unrelenting way Fox News, Richard Mellon Scaife, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and numerous other mouth pieces tried to destroy you completely? IF Clinton is elected let's just see how good Fox news and the above mentioned treat Hillary. Ya think they are going to be all embracing in a General Election?
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 30:
I watch him. He comes down squarely on the side of killing people in other countries as long as they are terror suspects. If that is the position of the Democratic Party i may have to end my short tenure. There are other things he says that can't possibly be construed as Democratic. Sometimes i have to leave the room.
Aquarius2 - Gregory at least looks at both Democratic candidates to show their strengths and weaknesses. If you want a love-fest for your candidate, just watch Olbermann.
getalife @ 28:
What unity? She only proved once again that is in a far, far reich-winger. Faux is a well established propaganda arm of the reich-wing, and Hill gladly used the tool. SHe's only distancing herself from the Democratic Party. congrats.
jmac @ 38:
I do LOL
Yes, Hillary is taking on Fox and Scaife and everyone else out there. And she's winning them over. People have respect for you when you have a spine and look the bully in the eye.
JTM @ 32:
Oh, i really don't have a serious opinion about that issue. In many ways i would like to see Fox curl up and die, on the other hand i think for free speech and democracy to work everybody should be able to have his or her say. Fox has done it's best to drown out any opinions but it's own. If anything i think it should be mandated by law (it once was, they called it the fairness doctrine) that all opposing views be aired.
Aquarius2 - You can laugh out loud and watch your propaganda, and that makes you no better than Fox.
Get it?
jmac @ 23:
OK, that's cool.
My question was mostly for Nicole and anyone who agrees with her on this.
JTM @ 20:
Yeah
To add unintended zaniness , hilarity and never-ending stupidity on an infinite level , to the proceedings..........
JTM @ 45:
Just for once i wanted to give a non combative answer. :)
jmac @ 43:
Propaganda?? I guess it depends on your point of view, yours is not obviously mine, so who has the propaganda, you or me?
jmac @ 41:
They'd have even more respect for you if you made the right decision(s) the 1st time around ; Hillary doesn't have that.....................
The shockingly Obama bias on CNN and MSNBC back fired and Fox took advantage of it.
I thought you folks wanted unity. It is Obama's message.
MCMetal @ 46:
But...
We have you. :)
(Ok, granted it is not unintended). :)
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 47:
Take two aspirin and get some rest. I'm sure you'll be back to you normal self tomorrow. :0
JTM @ 32:
If C&L had a policy of editing Republicans' posts here in order to distort their opinions, asking them loaded questions in order to unfairly trap them into something whenever they tried to post here, or generally used their comments unfairly on the front page, and if, simply by posting here, Republicans would increase the already unfair legitimacy of C&L.......I'd say, hell no! They'd have nothing to gain from posting here!
But your analogy doesn't hold up.
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 51:
Oops, scratch the "stupidity" part and it is closer to what i intended to say.
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 51:
And we have you to keep showing your limitations are indeed limitless.............
jmac @ 23:
yes, they will vote republican no matter what. those are the 30% that still thinks junior bush can do no wrong. I am in the military,and I can tell you that fox news got no effect on me. If we want to win an election,we need to stop our little hillary/obama little war and start attacking bomb bomb mc cain. those fox news viewers still think that there are links between Saddam ,al qaeda and 9-11.The democrats need to stay away from foxnews,so far we have been doing good without going on rupert murddock right wing propaganda machine.Those ill-informed fox news viewers will not vote for a democrat even if baby jesus asks them to. Democrats should stay away from fox. They are irrelevant to us.
Karen @ 53:
There is that. On Fox every Republican caught in a sex scandal is magically transformed into a Democrat. "Osama" seems to be running for President according to Fox. This is an "error" they have made on several occasions without appology.
MCMetal @ 55:
I was just joking with you, don't take offense. You are well spoken and often funny.
xoites (Bitter before Country was Cool) defends Constitution @ 58:
When did I say I was offended ?
First of all Fox is not a news station. They even said so. They are propaganda spin for the right. They are a strange mixture of holier than thou!!! Blah,Blah, Blah. But if that is what you like watch it.Me I don't watch corporate media. I rely on the internet. you can research any thing.
getalife @ 34:
yes yes fox news is fair and well balanced. There was no such thing as a vast right wing conspiracy against bill. richard mellon scaife didn't use his money to trash the clintons. If hillary went on fox because she thinks fox news is fair and balanced that makes hillary a liar.She lied about mellon scaife.
jmac @ 41:
Winning them over? They're laughing that they are able to use Hillary to destroy the Dem party's chances for success. Hillary has been fooled into thinking she is the now a bonafide member of the popular clique, instead of a dupe to be dumped when she has served her purpose of tearing down the Dem party.
Fuck fox news. Only Bush supporters watch it, and those idiots aren't going to vote for the Democrat anyway!
Brian @ 1:
Thanks for that ignorant-trash perspective, schmuck. Ya gonna tell me there's been no msm coverage of Reverend Wright and Obama and Dems look like wimps for refusing to jab sticks in their eyes now, too, little factually-challenged fella?
You shrub-shills pull this delusional-dreck shtick all the time. You operate from the same factually-challenged, bogus premise that the msm has a liberal bias giving you loons license to spew specious slop with no supporting evidence to "even it up" with an endless stream of specious slop about the NYT, WAPO, CNN and the rest of the sclm. No sale, shmendrik. Talk about assuming facts not in evidence.
Apart from the Judy Miller malarkey, the NYT carries David Brooks. WAPO carries Novak and Krauthammer. Who are the "liberal" columnists regularly carried by the Wash Times, NYPost and WSJ-Ed? Who is the "liberal" host on Faux to counter the lunatic-fringe likes of Glenn Beck and Lou Dobbs on CNN and the late, unlamented "Tucker" on MSNBC?
That's what I thought.
Clearly, there is a market for wing-nut nonsense and gop-slop spewing scum like Limbaugh, Hannity and Billo to tell the Tennessee Taliban what they want to hear. That doesn't make it legit journalism any more than it makes it fair and balanced.
There is nothing legitimate about fixed news. There never was. There never will be. To paraphrase the Judge upon tossing the ludicrous billo/murdo nuisance suit against Al Franken a few years back, it is wholly without merit, factually, legally and journalistically.
Pretending that there was and the continuing failure is of the msm to do due diligence and their jobs is why we're in this fix in the first place.
Dismissed. Go cheney yourself.
Tony @ 63:
If that were true, then there'd be no reason to worry about Fox.
But it isn't.
Has anyone ever posted something even neutral about shrub and been allowed to post a follow up? Same here.
JTM @ 65:
Who is "worried" about FAUX Gnus ?
The Dems stated their individual cases on that imbecilic propoganda network ; now , let the (buffalo) chips fall where they may (hopefully on Roger Ailes' empty , bald coconut)
getalife @ 28:
Spine? Wrong part of the anatomy, or didn't you get the Clinton memo? It's about testicles, not spine. Get with it.
Dean is wrong. The candidates AND those who represent the defeat-o-crats should stay off Faux News.
NOT ONE of them should be appearing the the channel of re-PIG-lic propoganda.
*
Has anyone ever posted something even neutral about shrub on the lunatic-fringe likes of Powerline or Freeperville and been allowed to post a follow up? Same here.
Coop @ 66:
If you're "neutral" about the worst president and administration in US history , you're either in a coma or are already dead.................
Coop @ 70:
Even minor dissent and/or criticism of the horseshit Chimpy administration is not allowed on GOP sites..............
JTM @ 65:
It's true and that's the reason why Dems need to stay away from fox news..We don't need fox to get the message out. Why wasting time trying to convert hardcore ignorant bushies. THEY WILL NOT VOTE FOR A DEMOCRAT NO MATTER WHAT. Going on fox news is a waste of time for any democrat.
Karen @ 8:
It IS something else. People have fallen for the Karl Rove/Clinton propaganda about Obama, and are now being led like sheep to vote for Hillary or McCain----BOTH Republican candidates. Once more the media has aided in forcing people to vote for who the media wants.
MCMetal @ 72:
True for the most part. Very sad.
And worse is that they use our willingness to listen to opposing views against us. They'll yell flip-flop at every opportunity, or scream about how they just "won" the argument merely for acknowledging that they have a point (which they consider to be a weakness).
As Sam Harris notes, when your enemy has no scruples, your own become a weapon in his arsenal.
ConcernedCanuck @ 74:
Yeah, well, Obama is still winning anyway so far.
Can we please keep the bickering between the Obama and Clinton camps to more-than-tangentially-relevant threads?
I DO think that Walleyed's the closest thing the re-PIG-lic propaganda machine has to a bona fide turd. The suit and tie can't disguise it and the smirk confirms it.
*
Oh, Dean, you stupid twat...
"we shouldn’t punish the viewers of FOX by staying away."
While I realize that many Fox News viewers are too stupid to work the channel changer, this sounds like your talking out of your mouth and your ass at the same time. If you truly believe that Wallace is "tough but fair" (LOL!!!!!!!!!), then hold him accountable for utilizing his journalistic cred for such a shoddy organization.
Karen @ 75:
True strength is not expressed through viciousness nor merely screaming stupid shit.
Regardless of any Fat Fuck Limpballs fan claiming his 'popularity' based upon Nielsen ratings numbers , there are still way more Americans that do not listen to someone like that stupid fat bag of shit , than do listen to his nonsense...............
Being stubborn and stupid (as Chimpy truly is) , reveals an insecure and feeble mind ; and everyone has been witness to the sorry ramifications of someone like that in power.