Today is 38th Anniversary of the Kent State Shootings
By bluegal Saturday May 03, 2008 8:15pmOn May 4, 1970, four students at Kent State University in Ohio were killed by Ohio National Guardsmen at an on-campus march to protest Nixon's invasion of Cambodia five days earlier. Those of us who remember Kent State first hand (I was in first grade, the daughter and granddaughter of KSU professors) know the "order to fire" did not come from some commander. The contempt for the life of the "dirty f**king hippies" came from Ohio Governor Rhodes, J. Edgar Hoover, and Richard Nixon. In 1970, the Vietnam war was going horribly wrong, the public that was waking up incredibly quickly, and the President and his administration's reaction was not only to stay the course but to dig in their heels and question the patriotism of anyone who did not go along.
We do not need anyone to tell us that there is an "Iraq-Vietnam Link." The "Vietnamization" of this war is happening before our eyes.
Update: Great minds think alike. Here's what Howie Klein had planned for Late Night Music Club before this post appeared (we've swapped out the original youtube for Howie's:
The publisher of Thrashers Wheat, the best of the many Neil Young fan sites, put together a post with pictures and videos over at DownWithTyranny. Tonight's song, predictably, is "Ohio" by CSNY, the song Neil wrote when he read about the shootings-- and saw the horrifying and galvanizing photos in Life, a spread that pretty much set the course for a crumbling of any support left for Nixon and his agenda. CSNY released a single immediately and included a live version on an album the following year but it wasn't until 1974, when they put out So Far that a studio version was available on LP. There are few songs that I can remember in my life that had as profound an impact on politics. So... why aren't students protesting the war in Iraq? Is it because they like the war-- or don't care about it (since there is no draft right now)? Or is it because they're afraid Bush will do to them what Nixon did to the four dead in Ohio?
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I remember.
And two of the four students were simply walking to class when they were shot.
It's still unspeakably tragic.
The next time forces shoot at American Students/Citizens it may be much much worse, since this administration has seen fit to bring Foreign Mercenary forces to American soil.
Blackwater would have no conscience.
Then I remember, we had library class, and I used to get all the "Life" and "Look" magazines from the rack, and look at the horrible pictures from Vietnam. I remember rivers of blood, and napalm, and destruction, and misery. Those memories are etched in my mind. They don't show that now; they were so vivid.
I was eight years old, in fourth grade, and I was horrified by this massacre. My parents, who had been happy Nixon supporters up to this point, were deeply shocked and angered by this horrible incident. It was one of many life-changing events during a very troubling time in American's history that forever set my own political course.
May they rest in peace and may we never forget what unchecked presidential power, especially in the hands of a Republican, can do to damage the very fabric of our country and threaten the lives of our citizens who exercise their constitutional right to disagree....
DFH forever....
4 dead in O HY O
Now,let's deal with "GITMO"
I remember so distinctly the moment I heard this news. I was a junior at American University in Washington DC, and was active in the anti-war movement, like the majority of college students at that time were. I had seen plenty of students beaten, had been tear gassed on campus and I remember the sheer hatred of the so-called Civil Defense Unit which would be brought on campus to control student protest. When I heard the news from Kent State, I was stunned, and I remember just putting my head in my hands and crying.
And for those of you too young to remember, nine more students were wounded. The 8 National Guardsmen who fired on American students on an American college campus all had the charges against them thrown out. Food for thought when dealing with the presence of Blackwater, BushCo's powers to declare Martial Law, the College Republicans, and hate rhetoric used by the right against all who don't accept their decrees. Vietnam, Iraq, how did we end up falling down this rabbit hole again?
From Wikipedia:
Legal action against the guardsmen
Eight of the guardsmen were indicted by a grand jury. The guardsmen claimed to have fired in self-defense, which was generally accepted by the criminal justice system. In 1974 U.S. District Judge Frank Battisti dismissed charges against all eight on the basis that the prosecution's case was too weak to warrant a trial.[13]
In May 2007, Alan Canfora, one of the injured protestors, demanded that the case be reopened, having found audiotape in a Yale University government archive allegedly recording an order to fire ("Right here! Get Set! Point! Fire!") just before the 13 second volley of shots.[15]
According to recently released FBI reports,[citation needed] one part-time student, Terry Norman, was already noted by student protesters as an informant for both campus police and the Akron FBI branch. Norman was present during the May 4 protests, taking photographs to identify student leaders,[28] while carrying a sidearm and wearing a gas mask.
In 1970, FBI director J. Edgar Hoover responded to questions from then-Congressman John Ashbrook by denying that Norman had ever worked for the FBI, a statement Norman himself disputed.[29] On 13 August 1973, Indiana Senator Birch Bayh sent a memo to then-governor of Ohio, John J. Gilligan, suggesting that Norman may have fired the first shot, based on testimony he received from Guardsmen who claimed that a gunshot fired from the vicinity of the protesters instigated the Guard to open fire on the students.[30]
Throughout the almost 40 years since the shootings, debate has continued on the events of May 4, 1970.[31][32]
Shooting Students was bad but many students had been throwing large Rocks and drink bottles at and hitting them for days. Finally some troops lost their cool and returned fire.
I, too, remember.
And I have only seen rememberances posted on two blogs.
Both posts by the same person.
What's that tell us?
The next time this happens will be much worse. The police and the army are being trained to a razors edge. We're not people to them most of the time. We are all just troublemakers who are costing the corporations money. The people who are supposed to serve and protect still do, unfortunately they serve and protect our masters interests instead of our. We're all just so much fodder for the machine.
There's a saying about being loneliest when you're in an unhappy relationship. And the consequences of a past war are hardest to face when you are in another mindless, endless war. I suppose we should (try to) prepare for another "saddest day" when we leave things worse than we found them.
Donaldd @ 9:
So now it's OK to SHOOT kids if they dare to question authority. Bullets equal cans?
Back under the bridge troll.
I was 18. I'm Canadian...lived in the States at that time.
I remember, vividly, as well. I also remember wondering what would happen to friends, with the draft looming. I remember watching 'the war' on tv...surreal, yet real.
I'm still stuck on where the outrage has gone. We seem to have become so jaded, or distracted, or de-sensitized...I really don't know.
The young people who gave their lives for their country, both in that war & at home in protest, must be turning in their graves now.
What will it take???
Donaldd @ 9:
I bet you would have enjoyed the Third Reich too. Jeebus!!
Donaldd @ 9:
You freaking moron. Let's see... rocks... bottles... vs M1 Carbine assault rifles... YEAH!!! That's the way! A completely asymmetrical response! Fight minor assault and general dickheadedness with MURDER BY HIGH POWERED RIFLES. YEAH!!! That's the AMERICAN WAY!!!
Donaldd - you're an idiot. Stop wasting precious oxygen. Kindly get a clue or at least crawl back under your rock.
I was a sophomore in High School. To me the sad part is that not much has changed since 1970. If we had a draft today, the exact same thing would be going on except instead of the National Guard (who is busy elsewhere) it would be some hot shot employee of Blackwater shooting college students. He of course would get off scot free just as the Guardsmen did back in 1970. Politics as usual.
I remember far too well.
I was a senior at Oberlin College not far from Kent State. I was also a Viet Nam combat veteran who had returned to college to complete my degree. From my perspective, the events of May 4, 1970 were not that different from March 4, 1770, the date of the Boston Massacre. I traveled to Washington for the protests that followed and became active in Viet Nam Veterans Against the War. My parents, both DOD employees, saw all four of their children attend the rally. Two of their sons were were Viet Nam veterans.
I will never forget listening to Phil Ochs singing a modified version of one of his classics with the line "Richard Nixon find yourself another country to be part of." When I graduated from Oberlin a few weeks later we held a silent vigil in memory of those who died at Kent State. My parents joined the protest. The Tet offensive started the shift of public opinion, Kent State solidified it.
Roket @ 17:
I wouldn't write off a draft just yet. If Cheney succeeds in bombing Iran (and even if he doesn't, most likely) the draft will be back on the table as soon as the November election is over with if Republicans keep the White House. There doesn't seem to be any other way to maintain their war without end blood for oil machine....
I was in the eighth grade. I was beginning to entertain the idea that my parents, my community (all heavily Republican) and my country was just flat-out wrong about the necessity of that ugly atrocity of a war. When I heard about the massacre, I realized that the U.S. government was SHOOTING students not too much older than myself just for voicing their opposition. For the first time I understood that not all authority is legitimate and that many who I had trusted to provide answers were instead part of the problem. I had irrevocably become radicalized. This event in American history shaped my political outlook for the rest of my life.
NEVER AGAIN.
Donaldd @ 9:
Something tells me that conservapedia is your main source of information. I'd just like to point out that your take on the situation, as with most articles on that site, is bullshit. There is not the slightest evidence that any of the students killed had attacked the National Guard Troops on campus. It would have been nothing short of a miracle for the troops to volley fire, as they did, without an order to do so or a conspiracy among the troops to do so.
And sorry, but my comment at #8 should read "12" more students were shot. My memory is fading on the details but I will never ever forget those years and what they did to my beliefs about America, democracy, freedom, and governmental checks and balances.
what is it with you damn dirty hippies?
why won't you just give up?
urkel for president? are you kidding me? shaggy for veep? how about a high-level cabinet position for dickey betts?
it's like george wallace said, "you like four-letter words, here're two for ya:
WORK and SOAP!
Tin Omen by Skinny Puppy is also a good choice for this event. As for conservapedia I saw a fun article hammering it on The American Conservative of all places. It was in the blog section.
I was only four when it happened. As for the people who remember this, Is the atmoshere in Washington as bad as it is now? I feel like we are standing at the obyss.
*"
Thank you, I was starting to think it had been forgotten - even chastized a couple of "anti-war" dem bloggers...
Donaldd @ 9:
What a smart comment! Throwing rocks and bottles at soldiers should garner the death penalty, for anyone who happens to be on campus at the time!
BTW, shooting at rock and bottle throwers does NOT equal 'returned fire.' It is initiating fire.
Dirty Fucking hippies!
I was a senior in high school, getting ready to graduate and go off to college. I had applied for "CO" status for the draft but was ignored and given a 1A. With and lottery number of 286, I wasn't too worried about the draft, only the damage our country would suffer from this brutal and unnecessary war.
Now, 37 years later, with a son of age and friends in Iraq, I realize we are in a far worse position than even then.
Four dead in Ohio!
Also I was 16 at the time and that week WE (thousands of marchers) closed down the I-5 going through Seattle that week. My group marched 13 miles to join the protesters.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 3:
Just a few minor corrections for your post Bangkok-Bob
Students did protest. The University of Texas at Austin, for one, had a huge walk out before the war even started, protesting the build up to it and how the evidence supporting it wasn't being examined. But, unlike in the 60's, the media didn't cover them, so they petered out as the participants realized that the boomers didn't give two tits about the protests or the rightness of the war.
Has this been on MSM? I decided to take a break from MSM watching this weekend, because I was fearing for my sanity.
This was one of three events that truly made me understand that the government is not to be blindly trusted, as they tell us in elementary school.
The first was in 1969 or so, when watching Walter Cronkite explaining the number of troops we had lost that day. I thought a "troop" was something like a "jeep" -- a piece of equipment. My sister explained that a troop was a soldier, like her long-term boyfriend who was in Vietnam at the time. At 6, I understood that war meant killing people... But Nixon kept explaining that it was needed, because the Vietnamese were evil, and we had to help them be like us.
Then came KSU. I moved to NE Ohio, not far from Kent State, right after it happened. I saw the stories hitting the local news, the questions coming from students, parents, teachers, government officials. I understood that my own government had just gunned down a bunch of unarmed students because they disagreed with Nixon.... even as I was learning American history and the premise of Constitution.
And then came Watergate.
I started reading more about people like Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and found new heroes in people like Arthur Miller after that.
it seems that the closer you look at what our govt actually is,
the farther it moves away from what really democracy is.
we have buried our heads in the sand for far too long.
the bush administration MUST be the last embarrassment
to our nation and the freedoms we feel so entitled to have.
we do not deserve what we are not willing to guard and
protect with the fortitude of honor and of truth.
Galvanizing moment?
Police in NYC unload 50 rounds into an unarmed black man and are let go and nothing happens there except long lines to purchase GTA IV?
What's it going to take?
We're in much deeper trouble than we thought.
At least the stoners are speaking out and taking to the parks and streets this past May Day weekend.
~Nyc
I don't remember really, being just seven years old. But I do remember all the parking lot scenes at Dead shows, and with friends around the campfire, when we would play OHIO on our guitars, and not really realize, until the daze lifted, what we were singing about. What a tragedy that we can't muster the outrage today!
Oh, fer.... Yeah, let's all blame the _students_ for the continuation of this war. "Why don't they get off their duffs & _do_ something???"
The simple fact is that there _have_ been protests & they've amounted to 100% diddly-poo. Bush is the most unpopular president _ever_ & the US continues it's insane policy. In 1970, there was some political will among Democrats to reverse things in Viet Nam, and 38 years later there is even less. The Dems in Congress caved in to everything that Bush wanted because they felt that it would make him (& by extension, the Reps) look unelectable in '08. Yeah, Nancy, thanks for all the support...
I am not downplaying political support, but the days of where protesting will change things are past, if they ever really existed. Back in 1970, at least there was a neutral media in which to broadcast such activities. We no longer have that luxury, as the current media is now an arm of the corporation state, and incredibly powerful. It's true, we have the internet, which is a saving grace, yet it hasn't been used yet to take the place to _true_ social/political action.
The main problem is that EVERYONE in the U.S. are feeling frustrated with their choices in opposing the war. The ILWU has a great idea: the organized strike. Not forever, but for a day. And one day isn't enough, either. It has to be a continuing threat. So why not every 15th day of the month everyone who is against the war strikes. It wouldn't matter either if the day is on a weekend, as those who do their shopping on those days can find out how many of the service-industry folks are against the status quo. Imagine it: every month, the US stops, no longer willing to let the Re-thuglicans & the Lay-me-Down-a-crats choose the agenda.
tweakerbell @ 16:
"M1 Carbine assault rifles"? ROTFLMAO!! If you can't properly identify the weapon, don't bother trying. And I'm happy that someone has pointed out that this wasn't a love-in that was suddenly attacked. The students had been throwing rocks at the ONG troops. Doesn't excuse the actions of the soldiers, but, as Heinlein pointed out, throwing shit at an armed man is freaking stupid.
I also always love seeing the alleged pro-peace, pro-liberty folks who cannot tolerate actual facts and demand that anyone not following the Progressive Party line shut up. some of us are as bad as the Bushites.
Sorry the reality of the events surrounding the Kent State incident doesn't jibe with your preferred version, tweakerbell, but the students had been provoking the National Guard for days at that point. Throw rocks at the guy with the rifle, don't be surpised when he uses the rifle.
Now, can someone explain how throwing rocks is supposed to be part of a peace demonstration?
well things could have been worse for this country , in 1954 we the us 7th fleet were pulled from korean waters under ikes orders , and sent to subic bay in the philippines along with troop ships loaded with infantrymen , we were held on the base and told we were about to inter the war that was going on in indo china on the side of the french who were engaged in action against the viet min , as luck would have it the french were defeated at dien bin phou before we were commited to the war, just a bit of history thats not in your history books! maby kent state wouldnt have happened because of it maby not! whos to say?
I was at Michigan State University, In East Lansing. We had been protesting before Kent, after that, any doubts about why we were protesting were gone, we had to continue.
Kent State was the moment when the moral imperative reached a tipping pont, if you understood what Kent State was; the slaughter of innocents by bullies determined to hang onto the powers they granted themselves - not the least of which was their certainty that they had the RIGHT to kill whomever they felt might be a threat - then there could be no backing down from the fight.
You had to live through it to understand it, live through the draft lotteries, live with friends seriously debating how to avoid Nam, not out of fear - although there was fear, and how could there not be? By 1970, we were all starting to see friends or relatives return from Nam totally fucked up, or in a box. And we knew it was all bullshit. Just like today, they were being sent to die for lies. Only then, there was the draft and if you weren't George W. Bush rich and connected, there were limited choices for avoiding it. So every draft lottery was a nightmare and a big decision, all randomly based on your birth date. It ripped families apart, it ruined lives. All for the lies of the powerful war profiteers.
Right after Kent, we marched in the streets of East Lansing, by MSU, and at one point I looked up at the rooftops of the buildings we were marching past, and I saw armed soldiers, rifles pointed down at us as we passed. And I thought, will I die here tonight? Will they shoot us too? And what happened to my America? The land of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
The last few years I have again been wondering what happened to my America. But maybe I was fooling myself. Maybe this corrupt, bloated, power-obssessed killing machine parading as a democracy IS the real America, and what we were marching for never really existed.
Maybe we weren't really supposed to believe all that crap about freedom and rights, we're just supposed to wrap ourselves in it and feel all warm and patriotic when they tell us they need us to go die in some foreign place for their profit margin again.
Or maybe not, I don't know anymore. I just feel sick at what they do.
bullfrog @ 23:
I think George Wallace used six letter words. Which makes quoting him even more awkward than those who you try to mock...
Another west Texan was US President in 1968 when the Ohio State National Guardsmen fired in fear at Kent State. These killings went reported that day as justified shootings in first press reports, that famous picture statrted to tell the world another whole story.
I find the references to Neil Young's Ohio to be interesting. I wonder if any of you recall his response to the 9/11 attacks, delivered by hand to KFOG in San Francisco a few weeks after the details of the Flight 93 heroics were released.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6Mfq7z_vHc
I think y'all might want to chew on these lyrics, again written by the same man who wrote Ohio, for a few minutes.
No one has the answer,
But one thing is true,
You've got to turn on evil,
When it's coming after you,
You've gotta face it down,
And when it tries to hide,
You've gotta go in after it,
And never be denied,
Time is runnin' out,
Let's roll.
I was in the second grade and not far from Kent growing up in Ashland, Ohio.
I vividly remember thinking those protesters got what they deserved because of all the trouble they were causing.
My only defense is I was a second grader.
Actually, I do know. America, the way we know it should be, exists. But the price of liberty really is eternal vigilence. We can never stop fighting, never stop speaking truth to power, never stop insisting that we live by the Rule of Law, not the Rule of Man. Never give an inch without fighting a mile. It has to be this way.
I remember the day all too well. We had moved from New Orleans to Ohio in January of 1970 just after I'd turned 12. I remember my horror in reading the newspaper headlines and seeing the gut wrenching photo of the young woman in distress kneeling over a dead student's body.
I'd been aware of the Vietnam War, the protests, the riots and the rising tension in the country, but that was my first moment of self-recognition about the war and the anti-war movement. The killings were in my new state and I was old enough to begin wondering about whether the madness would still be underway when I got to college. Those were turbulent times that I'm not sure folks born since then really understand. There was a gathering storm of anger and distrust of government, not unlike what we have today, but because there was a draft, it was impossible to ignore the way so many Americans do our present situation.
Ohio officials knew the Nixon administration had their back. As did Mississippi powers a week later.
Those old (and savvy) enough to have been afforded a glimpse at The Machine back then well understood the stakes inherent in 2002's Iraq War Resolution. Including Hillary Clinton.
I know people in the Ohio National Guard and their leaders always use May 4 to remind them of that history that is an example of poor training and unprofessional soldiers who should never have fired upon fellow Americans for airing their views, regardless of your political view of the situation. Guard folks have used their weapons once a year since then, concentrated on mostly homeland disaster relief.
Keep in mind it was Blackwater's guns who kept THEM out of New Orleans for three days-they left Ohio within 18-14 hours, they didn't bring GUNS since it wasn't THAT kind of mission, they brought supplies, medical, food water-so they did what they were told. These are mostly college educated, well rounded sane people. Helpers. They have a very low rate of domestic violence and tend to be family people, I say that having met nearly 1,000 of them over the years. Die hard republicans are the minority, most are what I would call independents who lean democrat.
They are the "boy and girl scouts" out of all the branches of service, they don't like criminal waivers for recruits-they have no thirst to kill like some Marines and others appear to...they want to be here to serve in their communities who may have tornadoes and floods, drill once a month to train on cpr, disaster relief-that sort of thing. You really should not support the war, but your Guard deserves it.
Kuparuk @ 34:
I remember at that time thinking a troop was some sort of collection of soldiers. I'm 47.
Too bad there's not so much on the Youtube about Jackson State...
The main reason we're not seeing large protests today on campus is because there's no draft. And the main reason public opinion has turned against the Iraq war is because it turned out not to be a "cake walk". Had the invasion and occupation been easy and successful we wouldn't hear a thing about US forces in Iraq anymore. Americans would be blissfully at the mall responding to occasional interviewers asking them "what do you think about the US military presence in Iraq?" "Uhhh...(wipes ice cream off chin)...are they still there?"
Let's also not forget that just days after Kent State, more students were killed at Jackson State in Mississippi. I was 17 years old when Kent State happened and I was already the "radical" in my little high school. The day after Kent State I was to the point of rage in my American Civics class. The teacher was a neo-con precursor and was scared to death when other kids started to side with me who had been silent previously. I yelled and screamed at that teacher and had to be taken out of the class. I was not going to listen to him blame the students. The change in America amongst the middle class was immediate. Parents who had perhaps been on the fence about Vietnam were horrified by Kent State and Jackson State. Their change of attitude could best be summed up by one mother who was interviewed and said " I don't care anymore about whether Vietnam is right or wrong, I am not going to accept our children being shot down in the streets because they disagree with this war". If you do a search about the Jackson State shootings you will see that there is a memorial and some of the bullet holes in the walls of the dorms where the shootings took place are still there. Spend awhile looking at those bullet holes and then contrast that with Kent State where the administration and the State of Ohio have sought to erase the memory of what happened. The difference between then and now is simple and clear. We practiced civil DISobedience. We took over administration offices etc. and gummed up the works. Today people say they are holding protests but they practice civil Obedience because they do it only when, where and under what circumstances the powers that be say is OK. That's bullshit and completely ineffective. You will not change this country by being polite and courteous to the powers that be. The Longshoremans union just shut down all of the west coast ports for a day to protest the Iraq war. That's the kind of thing to do. It cost the corporations many millions of dollars that day. Most modern day "activists" are too busy getting grant money from non-profits and snuggling up to whichever politician is talking slick to them about how he/she will champion them and their cause.
Che Guevara IV @ 43:
Got your dates wrong there, sport. Kent State was in 1970, when Richard Nixon was President. LBJ had vacated the White House in shame, a man broken by the Vietnam War. As other commenters have said above, Kent State has to be laid at the feet of Nixon (among others).
Longtooth you are correct, recall we are quite blue here in Ohio these days...Bush has federalized our Guard which is why they are overseas. He wants America to be vulnerable. Besides, Blackwater minds Bush better-they are beholden to their paycheck, not their country...
... it's the draft... that's the only difference...
and the lack of one now, is the main reason this mess was even allowed...
Guardian - agreed, Bush wants us vulnerable. United we stand, divided, we're easy pickins' for Bush's buddies. Much easier to manipulate.
reasons for the lack of student protests
1. no draft...almost everyone in university knew someone personally who was serving, and they all knew that they could be subject to the draft
2. campuses are much more liberal now than in the 60s...remember, not only were the students fighting the government, they were also fighting their own administrations
3. the economy...in the 60s, it was ok to use college as a means for learning...now, its a means to get a job...you eff up in college, you may not have a rosy future, plus college is much more expensive now...getting expelled is not an option (then, it was a badge of courage)
and dont blame the lack of student protests for the continuation of the war....even if everyone in this country stood as one and shouted to the heavens for the occupation to end, bush would not listen
Hussein sciguy Hussein (my middle name is not Hussein) @ 54:
Also his geography, Bush is from Conneticut.
Four Dead in OHighO
A lot of people don't even think about Iraq and whats going on over there.
Ask them what they think about it and they say, "oh that yeah hey I got to go nice talking to you".
I would like to know more about this comment, QD.
Thanks.
QuakerDave @ 10:
Trucker Doug @ 39:
can anyone explain what an armed militia was doing on a college campus?
"adult" paranoia...
I moved to Kent a few years ago, and while I felt a weird vibe during the first May 4th I experienced here, I didn't remember what today was until I saw this post. Being a Sunday, there wasn't much going on here today beyond yard work thanks to the great weather.
However, I've been told by several townies to avoid the KSU campus on May 4th, as it becomes a magnet for protesters from out of town. A few years ago on the 35th anniversary and soon after the Iraq war began, there were some violent protests that ended in police action that led to some demands that the sheriff step down or be removed. I think he's the same guy who cited a resident for littering last year when he had a "IMPEACH BUSH" sign in his front yard. Kent is a pretty liberal town, so I'm kind of surprised the sheriff is like that, especially considering its past.
Sean-B @ 42:
today i used 147 1-letter words, 342 2-letter words, 76 3-letter words, 87 4-letter words, 16 5-letter words, 76 6-letter words, 3 7-letter words and one 10-letter word.
i feel really awkward telling you this.
Republicans they they can get around the protests by hiring foreign mercenaries to do their dirty work and avoid having to draft Americans. They even have new programs in prisons around the country which allow convicted felons early release if they go straight into the military.
Here's a related video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIyL8ti3SME
Another difference b/w then and now,
Then we had Cronkite, Huntley & Brinkley.
Now we have the cooking channel.
Great, just great. More hand wringing over the students, "institute the draft!" & whining about Jackson State...
The REAL question is.... What are YOU going to do NOW about the Iraq War?
“Naturally the common people don’t want war. But after all, it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it’s always a simple matter to drag people along whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and for exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country.”
--- Hermann Goering, Hitler’s Reich Marshall, at the Nuremberg Trials after World War II.
How soon we forget. Oops. Gotta go now. I don't want to miss Dancing with the Stars...
Trucker Doug @ 44:
"his response to the 9/11 attacks" - exactly, he's referring to afghanistan...
you know, the original, and only justified, excuse that got this mess started...
...
About a year or so before Kent State happened, our history teacher brought a stack of Time magazines (all the same issue) to class and told us to look at a certain page. It showed an American soldier holding the severed head of a Vietnamese boy. We were all shocked and sickened. The entire class was instantly transformed into antiwar activists. Mr Rodney Hughes, thank you, wherever you are.
Maybe if people could see real war pictures, instead of the sanitized pap we get now, attitudes might change.
Trucker Doug @ 39:
It was about stopping the war and confronting an administration that was ignoring the nation's desire to see it end. At that point in time just about everyone knew someone who had been killed in that god awful mess and the draft was carting kids away like mad.
No matter what happened or who protested that meat grinder went on... if you haven't been to see the wall in DC you should go there.
This a pretty reasonably good account of what happened that day:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
I recall where I was when I heard of the shootings. I was, by sheer chance, in the office of the then Governor of California, Ronald Reagan. I was hand delivering a paper I published... Zapped. (Some will remember that one) He used to try and "milk" me for left-wing info, just as I was trying for an angle on the fascist regime. It was all of a piece, at that time.
I recall he got the word and he looked at me and said, "Too bad they didn't get more of the bastards." I was 17 but I still regret, to this day, not going over the desk, but then... that's not often how reality plays out.
My mother's response to Kent State was, "Well, they shouldn't have been there."
As if that were an appropriate response for students gunned down walking to class - or even for the two who really were protesting an illegal war.
As for the wing-nuts who still want to claim that death was appropriate because someone was throwing rocks; were the students who died the rock throwers? Was the legal punishment for rock throwing death by firing squad without trail? If not, then what the hell are you talking about? And really, throwing a rock at someone is assault, we have laws, we even had them then. Shooting into a crowd, even with rock throwers in it, is not justice or justified.
What happened at Kent State was murder.
Draft then; no draft now. So, different!
Chickenhawks then; chickenhawks now!! Same as it ever was!
The corporate media loves to show images of people being beat down or shot at protests. Be afraid of your government... be very afraid of your government... they will beat you... or shoot you... if you openly oppose them... now be good little sheep...
roooth @ 75:
Edd @ 76:
It is so much easier to let the poor go fight your wars isn't it?
38 years ago today I was a high school freshman enrolled in JROTC with the intention of pursuing a career in the military. Even in that environment, I was hearing disdainful arguments against our adventure in southeast Asia. Some of those arguments came from an NCO instructor who had spent a year in a combat battalion in Vietnam.
On 5 May 1970, our instructor came into the JROTC classroom with a copy of the local newspaper. Above the fold was a photo of Jeffrey Miller's body on the parking lot. He slammed it down on the podium declaring, "Now we're shooting Americans."
Thus ended my military career.
I remember this well. I mean even though I saw the images (ah, yes, back in the day when the media actually reported the news instead of manufacturing it) I remember thinking this can't be happening in THIS country. We must remind ourselves of this incident just as we do the Japanese encampments, and segregation, and the genocide of our native Americans.
I remember. I was a student at the University of Georgia and there were demonstrations there for several days by dfhs who wanted the school to close down out of respect for the Kent State students. Guess who showed up to protest against closing the school - the Greeks! The school did close down, however, but for a lot of students who were detached from the war or were whole-hearted supporters of it as long as they didn’t have to go, it merely meant an early commencement of weekend partying. For me no song perfectly captures what was going on more than this one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rD78i6eoGkM&feature=related
Lynda G. @ 14:
How can they be outraged when they can't see it?
Your question about why there is so little protest against the Iraq war on campuses includes the correct answer in your following question. No draft = no interest among well-to-do, self-satisfied college students. They are assured a decent education, their choice of careers and zero threat of actually being affected by the dying in the middle east.
I was in my teens/early 20's in the 60's, and I saw how the kids of privilege reacted to the chance that they might have to go off to war and face injury or death. Yes, the Vietnam war was wrong; yes, it never should have been started; but those same poor little rich kids wouldn't have given 2 shits about it, had it not been for the draft.
Four young people died at Ohio State that day; over 50,000 American troops, a vast number of them draftees from the poorer segments of our society, those who couldn't afford to go to college and get draft deferments (like Cheney), died in Vietnam. I had just returned from Vietnam when Kent State happened. So many people who were outraged about those four deaths were calling the draftees of the Vietnam war baby killers and war criminals. In reality, they were just poor kids who didn't have much choice, much education, and much other opportunity. (And I wasn't one of those poor kids - I volunteered for the service and for Vietnam, so don't think this is just sour grapes on my part.) My actions were poorly motivated, but at least I had other choices. So many of my fellow soldiers didn't.
As a Kent resident hard to forget, I was a sophomore in hs. My sister's boyfriend was a student at KSU & he stayed home on Monday. Sequence of events:
Thurs ~ Nixon announced we were fighting in Cambodia.
Fri ~ Demostrations/Protests, alcohol consumption = you do the math
Sat ~ ROTC building on fire
Sun ~ 1,000 National Guard on Campus
Mon ~ KSU open for business like an ordinary day !@#$%^&* obviously the school should have canceled classes imo, especially since the (2) major roads in & out of Kent were closed, gee that makes sense, hold classes & barricade the town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings
bad memories, 'nuf said
I was a child when the murders occurred, but what has amazed me in viewing various historical pieces was how acceptable these killings were to the locals at the time. Interview after interview (including many with college aged kids) repeated the mantra the the kids shouldn't have been doing what they were doing, or they somehow "had it coming."
It's still amazing to see a few comments in that vein here tonight. Just how bright do you have to be to figure out that one person throwing a rock doesn't justify gunning down another person? Just how naively or deliberately uninformed do you have to be to comment on this subject and not know the four students killed were about the length of a football field away when gunned down? The closest was more than 250 feet away. Do you just assume they were All-American Rock throwers? What about the two girls? The ROTC student who was shot in the back 380 feet away from the troops?
Those kids were murdered, pure and simple. Nothing's changed. Justice is an antiquated notion.
Anti war protesters meet TANKS at Westwood federal building 11-09-04
But its just a proud 15 year old tradition of the current crop of Beltway power freaks.
According to a report by the U.S. Department of the Treasury, the list of military personnel and equipment used at Waco included: 15 active-duty military personnel, 13 Texas National Guard personnel, nine Bradley fighting vehicles, five combat-engineer vehicles, one tank-retrieval vehicle and two M1A1 Abrams tanks. Additionally, Fort Hood reportedly was used for much of the training for the bloody attack on the Davidians and their children.
The local Sheriff was on good terms with the Branch Davidians at Waco, and David Koresh used to go jogging outside the compound daily, it was escalated from a petty gun permit affair to a nightmare siege situation by the DoJ and the Clintons, then a massacre.
Dont you just love it when our government happily kills American men women and children just for being different and or stubborn !
fiver @ 86:
"had it coming."
It's the same sentiment as "America, love it or leave it" mentality. You are not allowed to question your govt. so just shut up!
The real truth of what happened at Kent State will never be known, just like the real truth re: Abu Ghraib prison, Gitmo, Pat Tillman's death, Haditha war crimes etc. will never be known, the military & u.s. govt. have the cover-up routine down to a science, unfortunately the military couldn't get on the same page re: Pat Tillman's death, so the cover-up was made public after several bogus investigations.
a man hears what he wants to hear & disregards the rest ...
We hit the streets in mass and we stopped the Vietnam war because we cared then and too there was a draft . Today some may pay lip service or blog as to just what a crock this invasion and occupation is ( it is not a war ! ) but that's about it . People do not give a damn , they don't care UNLESS it is some how costing them personally as in being drafted or losing someone to this cluster phuk , they are not bright enough to understand how much it IS affecting them directly in their pocket books among other things , never mind the fact that it was an unjust invasion , an invasion based on lies , at least hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions have been displaced all for Bush and his criminal enterprise . AND there is no one with any clout these days willing to take the lead and organize those of us who do care and will hit the streets and do what ever it takes .Another major factor is that today the media is complicit with Bush and the government , it is fascism folks , that's what happens when you allow a few powerful people / corporations to own and control all of the media , there was a law limiting media ownership but thanks first of all to the Repug God Ronald Reagan and every President since Reagan including cigar Bill , there are no such restrictions anymore . This country is in bad shape , it has been hi jacked by evil and rotten pigs , actual criminals , while we buried our heads in the sand and told our selves it can't happen here . We're gonna reap what we have sown .
"Ohio"
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago.
What if you knew her
And found her dead on the ground
How can you run when you know?
Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming,
Four dead in Ohio.
41 roooth Says:
=======================
roooth, I loved reading your post.
I read the rest also, and I'm sorry, but it's never cool to shoot university students, even when they misbehave. They are other methods that can be employed, if "crowd control" is absolutely necessary. You don't gun down 18, 19 and 20 year olds.
I remember it well. I was at city college dodging the draft with a student deferment. That shocked the US. The killings made us look at ourselves and made us ask questions like how could things have gone this far. Anarchy was on my mind. We were so frustrated with Vietnam , the Nixon Administration. The establishment I think was starting to back off because at that moment, when students demonstrating were now getting shot, I think the administration started to back off and pull out of vietnam. I can not put it into words but you could feel it in the air. The tension was everywhere. I really believe that incident was the spark that started the administration to pull our troops out of vietnam. People say we haven't learned from this. Oh, I think the powers to be learned a very valuable lesson. They can make a shit load of money in war!!!!!! You bet, mate. Lots of it.
So… why aren’t students protesting the war in Iraq?
Vietnam was known as the "television" war. The neocons remember that fact well. They orchestrated this illegal war on Iraq and don't want any one viewing their crime in prime time night after night. Nor do they want anyone protesting this war to get any air time or publicity. They won't even show the flag draped coffins. There is a reason that television coverage of Iraq and Afghanistan is censored and/or sanitized.
If someone wants to see the horrors of this war you have to go looking for it on the internet. Who wants to do that? If you think you can handle it and want to see what's being done in our name just google "Iraq war photos" . But you will never see it on the nightly news or CNN. This occupation might have ended a long time ago if you had.
I wrote on my blog before I read these comments, but it's nice to be in agreement.
www.subterrnews.blogspot.com
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 3:
There rumors of 300 plus shot dead by BW or others in New Orleans, during the cleansing and removal of the criminal stay behind element.
The Ohio National Guard was pissed , tired after patrolling Akron during the rubber workers strike, and didn't really have any riot gear that we have today.
Oh yeah, the organizers that eventually led to protests that staged the shootings, they never went to Kent.
"...So… why aren’t students protesting the war in Iraq? Is it because they like the war– or don’t care about it (since there is no draft right now)? Or is it because they’re afraid Bush will do to them what Nixon did to the four dead in Ohio?"
I doubt they are cowering in fear of the petulant Boy-Prince Preznit...I think they are simply too self-absorbed in their lives/toys/distractions to give a fig about anything.
Then again, I hear too often how "jail is too rough, man" when talking about protesting. So, maybe the students are just too happy in their comfort zone...it does take effort to bring about change....and, let's face it, too many of America's future are pasty doughy lumps.
I was 18 waiting to find out my draft lottery number. 289 The luckiest number I ever had. The National Guard then was the way to stay out of Vietnam. There was a waiting list. Remember, the Gaurd is where bush hid out during Nam. I'm 55 now and stand at the same corner the first Wednesday of each month, with mostly people my age calling for an end to this useless war in Iraq. Sure would like to see more young people involved.
The draft made it personal. Every one of our guys' lives were literally on the line. "They" know this. That's why there is no draft. That's why there are scant student protests. No one feels the pressure of being snatched up, sent to war to be killed, maimed, totally fu(ked up, or addicted for life.
And those heinous fu(king bastards kept that war going for five more years after Kent.
Two things - One is the draft, or lack thereof. Which is addressed already in the Comments.
Second is the media - During Vietnam, we saw footage of war, we saw the dead returning. The Pentagon was using the WWII model, show the populace what we are doing so they know and understand and therefore support the war. In WWII that worked due to the enemy we were fighting. But in VietNam there was no Good Fight, there was only imperialist war for control of another nation's resources. The media plan backfired, the US people were disgusted at the waste of human life only so the wealthy could get more rich.
So now-a-days, the Pentagon has a blanket censorship order on all US media, with which they are happy to comply. The US media enjoys censoring vital news, and the war on the people of Iraq is certainly vital!
And since our populace media oriented, it doesn't exist if it's NOT on TV. So in the minds of our young folk, there is no war! There is no impact at all on their daily life: no images of what their fellow youngsters are doing at war, and no draft board threatening to send them over there.
THERE IS NO IMPACT AT ALL ON THE LIVES OF THE YOUTH IN AMERICA. That's why there's no anti-war movement. There's only the handful of us over-40s, that can recall the effects of the Republican's war on the people of Viet-Nam, that can still be found in dwindling numbers vainly protesting the latest anti-American move by the ruling elites.
Now shush! I can't be bothered by the so-called 'war' in Iraq-istan, American Idol is on!
The answer to your question is that there is now protests because there is no draft. No 18 yr old children taken from mom and dad. No egg head brilliant kids having to postpone their goals and ambitions, and striking back by organizing protests. The teens going to war now do it because they are in a military family or because of family necessity. When we are 'effectively out of troops' then the piper will need to be paid.
The answer to your question is that there are no protests now because there is no draft. No 18 yr old children taken from mom and dad. No egg head brilliant kids having to postpone their goals and ambitions, and striking back by organizing protests. The teens going to war now do it because they are in a military family or because of family necessity. When we are ‘effectively out of troops’ then the piper will need to be paid.
-oops-
Cheney would not even hesitate in telling bush to open fire on protesters.
mls @ 94:
As a college professor, I can honestly tell you they don't give a shit about it.
I hate to say it, but they will only pay attention if/once the draft is brought back. For now, its all about keg parties, passing finals, and complaining about the high price of gas. Its sad.
At the same time as we remember, we should also be doing what we can to limit future shootings of civilians by the police and military.
I was 12 years old, and unusually attuned to current events and politics for a kid that age, so I remember this well. Even after Kent State, you had your hardcore,Pro-war Nixon backers, much like Bushies 29%-ers now, but they very quickly became marginalized. When the powers that be were reduced to shooting college kids here in America, everybody knew the war was lost. Why aren't college kids protesting the war now? Well, in my opinion, for the same reason their parents aren't voting out of office pro-war politicians - they don't care. After all, it's only the poor and working class kids who were "dumb" enough to join the Army who are doing the dying; it's not costing them anything, so why should they care. I know that sounds harsh, and I should paint everyone with the same brush, but the reason this insanity is allowed to continue is because "the global war on Terror" seems so bloodless and remote to most Americans. Institute a draft; make it clear to Mr and Mrs Middle America that their darling son or daughter has a better than even chance of being thrown into the Middle East Meatgrinder, and you'll see how fast this bullshit ends.
That should read "shouldn't paint everyone with the same brush". Fucking Typos!
What was sad about the aftermath was that we realized that the Ohio National Guard members were a bunch of weekend warriors who used family connections to avoid the draft and Vietnam. WTF was going through their minds at the time? They ended up shooting kids from the same backgrounds as they. We thought for sure that FBI infiltrators had started the whole thing. It wasn't till later that that conclusion proved to be true. Anyone remember the Weather Underground. We always suspected that they were FBI, too. Guess we'll never know about that one, though.
"So… why aren’t students protesting the war in Iraq? Is it because they like the war– or don’t care about it (since there is no draft right now)? Or is it because they’re afraid Bush will do to them what Nixon did to the four dead in Ohio?"
I've been on this rants for years. Look at any of our music, literature, or art. We skipped an entire generation, we missed that wave that comes through,... we haven't had a musical movement since 92, when grunge hit, & that was more of recycling than an honest movement. There isn't a single protest song on the radio, & maybe one wouldn't even be noticed, since now that only four companies own all the media, all the radio stations sound exactly the same.
Does anyone remember on 9/11, when Clear Channel sent out a list of songs that were not allowed to be played on the radio? They did that they very same day, like a 9/11 happened every day,... while the rest of us were too busy in shock & mourning to think straight. I feel that was a tell tale sign that the whole propaganda thing is being orchestrated in such a way to keep Americans sedate, consuming, & quiet.
We have reached the point of over-privilege in this country. Nobody gives a shit about anything until it threatens one of the luxuries turned necessity that we can't live without.
Yesterday was the anniversary of May 4th. My wife lived next to Allison in the dorm. She lost her head going to math class. People were shot over a damned invasion that made no sense. as she stated on her blog, there was no reason to shot to kill, except that Governor Jimmy Rhoades, public opinion and Richard Nixon wanted to make a point. You have to remember that the county seat, Ravenna, had the Voice of America radio blaring down the downtown street sound system. The modern day equivalent would be having a town broadcast America Freedom Network, where Rush would be the liberal host. This is the atmosphere those protests were under. It is no wonder that there was meaningless spilling of blood. Nothing like armored personnel carriers on the campus to make you feel wanted.
I can recall on the 20th anniversary NBC news did a story that the only person photographed with a gun pointed at the National Guard was identified as an FBI agent (provocateur). Infiltration of radical peace-loving groups was a regular occurence. Now we have wiretapping by the folks who tries to quell the last revolution. How fast we forget and how public outrage disappears. many of the rights we take for granted and those which are rapidly stripping away were earned by the death of students in the 70s. God, what a shame. and waste of lives.
I was on a plane on Saturday and I spoke with the people I shared the row with and no one had ever heard of Jackson State or Kent State. and the May 4th Memorial at Kent is tucked away in the corner. Like no one wants to remember.
sad.
rojo
janehussein @ 51:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_State_killings
I was a sophomore at Virginia Tech when both Kent State and Jackson State happened. I remember being appalled by the number of creatures who said things along the lines of "they had it coming".
To this day, I think it's unfortunate that the Jackson State killings have received far less attention. The police fired into a dormitory, not a crowd. The two victims were black.
To finally answer the question,
Yes, it was the draft. Nothing gets an anti-war protest going like the iminence of combat service in such a stupid war. That's why there has never been a draft since.
The National Guard members were young Teens mostly 18-20 college dropouts or high school grads who enlisted in the Guard to evade Vietnam. Very few were so called privileged Bush types although there were many Sports Stars who may have had some special arrangements from above and those that probably joined before the draft lottery was in place.
The National Guard troops at Kent were a bunch of scared kids that had little protection against thrown bricks, rocks, and heavy soda bottles or training in crowd control. All it took was for the first weakest person in the link of that chain to fire a shot which might have been above students heads in warning and others began firing indiscriminately.
National Guard troops are not police but they were placed in a position where Police would have been better suited.
I don't condone what they did in killing unarmed and kids.
As someone who was in high school nearby that May; it always infuriated me that Jimmy Rhodes forced Cleveland State University to put his name on the Tower there.
Why didn't they just rename the graveyard in Kent after him instead?
Hearing about the Kent St. shootings was one of those moments you never forget. What really bothered me was the idiocy of allowing the Natl Guard to carry loaded rifles. Remember those in the guard were the ones "lucky" enough to avoid (or evade) the draft so they did not have to go to Vietnam. So having to face down students is far from being in the jungles of Nam. So many of the right wing folks kept saying what would you expect the guard to do? How about being professional?
I don't think anyone who wasn't around in the 60's can appreciate those times. Three assassinations, civil rights workers murdered, Vietnam, riots in the inner cities, riots at the '68 Democratic convention (good friend got the crap beat of him by the Chicago Police for having long hair and being in the wrong place at the wrong time.) Also unlike now the generation gap which separated kids from the parents politically.
If you were in the National Guard back then, if you didn't sell enough cookies, you couldn't go to summer camp.
It would be nice if the liberal media would at least give a perfunctory acknowledgment of the Jackson State students who were also killed and wounded in May, 1970 by Mississippi National Guardsmen.
Pure unadulterated chickenhawk fascism redux. If you want change,quit your job,grow your own food and school your kids at home. If that is too hard just go shopping for a flat screen.
I was a senior at college at Allegheny college, not far from Kent state when this happened. There was a general feeling of 'what the fuck?". Like our country wants to kill us, not just in Vietnam, but here at home as well. A state of despair, frustration, and anger set in like never before. Vietnam was hanging over all our heads, the country was insane. It was a very intense time.
Look, I WAS THERE on May 4, 1970...I was a freshman who lived in a dorm right on the Commons where much of the action took place. I knew Allison Krause. The students present on the campus that weekend and that Monday had NOT been "provoking the National Guard for days at that point." That is pure, lying, conservative fantasy-bullshit. Yes, some students on that Monday threw back teargas canisters and some threw small rocks, but there's no indication that students had been provoking the Guard. Hell no, we didn't like having them on our campus; would YOU like an occupation force on YOUR block? But provoke? Not so much. In fact, if you want to talk provocation, look into the FBI provocateur who was on campus that week...the only "civilian" who was later found to have shot a weapon.
And it really wasn't a peace demonstration. It wasn't very organized at all, but something that happened out of frustration and anger. It was a demonstration of people who were sick to death of the pointless killing in Vietnam, which had just been escalated, and of the military presence on our campus. If you really think that those people--I could have been one of them if I'd been a half-minute later climbing up Taylor Hill--deserved to be murdered by M1 rifle fire because they were demonstrating--hell, even if they'd thrown a rock--then you need to take a long, hard look at your own morality.
to Comrade Rutherford @101:
You say that there are only a handful of us "over 40's" who can remember what the Republicans' war did to the people of Vietnam.
Ya know, I'm one of those over 40's. I also was in Vietnam and know a little bit about the history of that war. Sure, the first military troops went into S. Vietnam under Eisenhower, but they were only small numbers. they were, in the strictest sense of the word, "advisors". I later served with an NCO who was there before the chaos started. Hell, the situation was so calm that the military folks were allowed to bring there dependents with them - it was an "accompanied" tour!
The shit didn't hit the fan until the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Did you somehow forget about that one? Oh, and BTW, the Democrats were in charge by then - had been since Kennedy (who was strongly rumored to have had a hand in the assasination of Vietnam's president, so one more amenable to US presence could be placed in power.) The escalation started under LBJ, who lied through his teeth about Tonkin and the non-attack that took place there. By the time Nixon was president, we were so deep in the shit that it was an impossible situation.
Nixon's "vietnamization" policy didn't accomplish much, but it at least got us out of Vietnam. We showed much dishonor in the way we left - abandoning our friends and allies to the N. Vietnamese butchers, but at least we left. So, it was two Democratic administrations that got us deeply involved in that war, and a Republican one that got us out.
I've never been a GOP'er, and hated Nixon, but the GOP didn't start the damn thing, the Dems did.
And, oh yeah; I'm a lifelong Democrat, and an Obama supporter - not a professional apologist for the Rethuglicans.
Please excuse typos and misspellings above; it's late, and I'm tired. :o)
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