Telecom Companies Write Their Own Amnesty Proposals For Congress
By Logan Murphy Wednesday May 07, 2008 8:32am
Telecom companies have presented congressional Democrats with a set of proposals on how to provide immunity to the businesses that participated in a controversial government electronic surveillance program, a House Democratic aide said Wednesday.
Congress has been wrestling for months with an update to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act with the immunity issue the primary sticking point.
Many Democrats want the companies held accountable for participating in the program, which was initiated in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. The White House, however, has insisted that the participation of the telecoms is crucial to monitoring conversations between potential terrorists. President Bush has vowed to veto any bill that does not contain immunity. Read on...
Hmm...I think I'll try this approach should I ever find myself in legal trouble. Any member of Congress who thinks the American people are going to allow the telecom companies to write their own get out of jail free card, they are sadly mistaken. Let Rep Steny Hoyer know how you feel, and/or contact your representatives in the House and Senate and tell them you don't want want companies who betrayed the country and its Constitution to get a free pass.
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HA!
Telecoms can suck my big toe!
the one with the nail fungus action too!
I don't think this is as much about holding the telcos responsible as it is using legal proceedings against the telcos as a back door to holding the administration responsible.
"which was initiated in the wake of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks" BULLSHIT!
It is documented and PROVEN that GWB initiated this program well BEFORE the attacks. Do NOT perpetrate the lie.
Write your reps and make sure they know how WE feel about this.
Or Better yet, Call your rep.
On a lighter note ::
An Israeli doctor says "Medicine in my country is so advanced that we can take a kidney out of one man, put it in another, and have him looking for work in six weeks."
A German doctor says "That is nothing. We can take a lung out of one person, put it in another, and have him looking for work in four weeks.
A Russian doctor says "In my country, medicine is so advanced that we can take half a heart out of one person, put it in another, and have them both looking for work in two weeks."
The Texas doctor, not to be outdone, says; "You guys are way behind, we recently took a man with no brains out of Texas, put him in the White House for eight years, and now half the country is looking for work."
BB drinking again. (but then, I dont run the country.)
How the frick does this work?! Who the hell do these telecom companies think they are??? Really, I just have to tell the law what I'm prepared to do and they'll let me do it?! I didn't think so!
The brass balls on these CEOs and their lackey legal counsel is outrageous. WTF is all I'm left saying...
Nice catch in this era of Presidential Kabuki. I put this on my list. Let's keep a drumbeat going on this. We know if we yell loud enough and long enough they will listen.
George says "the tax cuts are working so well we have to make them permanent"
The one trick pony
Just spoke to Rep. Al Wynn's office (MD-4). They stated that he is opposed to telecom immunity but qualified it by saying that he will consider all new legislation on it's individual merits.
What's the big deal? The energy companies did this with Cheney's Energy Task Force and we didn't complain, the drug companies did this for Medicaid Reform and we didn't complain. Why complain now? Is it because they are doing it above board instead?
In all honesty I fear this'll fly. They'll get away with it, but that was never any question. However, if the Congress, or the Hague offer the execs of the companies immunity in exchange fro testifying at the upcoming impeachment, or war crimes trials..... I go along with that deal!
What an idea! Roger Clemens should take note of what the telecom companies are doing.
"Well, yeah, I know that I slept with an underage girl, and I used federally-banned substances, but I have a great idea that's win-win for the both of us: you let me off scot-free! I win, and you win because you don't have to worry about this issue anymore! See?"
If anyone wants to proclaim capitalism as the savior of humankind, we need only point them to the U.S. under the Bush administration.
right on! @ 6:
Yeah who do they think they are? They're not Enron or anything like that!
Bohemian Grovers
It was initiated prior to the 911 attacks.
From the politico article:
Translation:
Hoyer is in the bag.
This is about more, even than the fourth amendment. This is about criminal theft of business plans, intellectual property and private information. If these bastards sanctify this I am on the warpath.
Heres a start. For the uninitiated.
http://www.pehi.eu/
With the executive orders in place to keep what this corrupt administration has done from ever making the light of day, the courts are THE ONLY place where we MIGHT have an opportunity to learn of their crimes.
Why the dems are bending over, again, is beyond me.
I am starting to think that that anthrax sent to Daschle was really a message to any legislator who might try to get in their way. I'm not a tin foil person but honest to Christ...GET A FRIGGIN' BACKBONE! If our elected officials can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
OPEN GOVERNMENT! Congress, do your jobs!
Apparently asking for that is too much of an imposition.
A.Citizen @ 7:
KEEP THE DRUMBEAT GOING. This issue may have more weight than even the invasion of Iraq for future administrations. Companies need to know that complying with an illegal request is illegal. The American people need to know that they always have their day in court (that retroactive immunity is absurd). And businesses need to know that vetting a request by "lawyering up" in a competitive marketplace is an investment that's rewarded if done correctly (Qwest refused the Bush administration--they should avoid lawsuits the other telecoms should incur.)
Why not?
The Congress lets PHARMA and insurance do it all the time
Corporations and the build-a-burger types could save us all a lot of hassles and just announce who the next Anointed One is.
Again I ask..... If you did nothing wrong why do you need immunity?
Really, what more proof do we need that the telecom companies knowingly participated in illegal activities
This is part of the "throw it up against the wall enough times and eventually it will stick" strategy to wear us down and grant themselves a free get out of jail pass.
They really need this too, because if they don't get immunity it will mean that Bush / cheney and all involved could be prosecuted for their part.
It's just too bad Pelosi, Reed and the rest of the so called Democratic leadership have turned into republicans and actually become part of the problem.
I've been writing to my Rep and Senators for the past 6 years about my concerns on many of the issues we discuss here on C&L. They send back form letters, reiterating their positions, and then just do as they want in order to secure their continuing funding from corporations so they can keep their seats - literally an figuratively
It will be no different with this telecom issue. The Dems and Repugs will all futz around for a while, but in the end they'll do what the Pres and the corps. want - the public be damned.
If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck - you can bet it's a duck: or in this case fascism, not only on the rise, but already here. The corporations and the elitists who run them have all the wealth and power, plus their bud Georgie in place to keep us in line. Here's a reminder I copied from another website - look familair????
"TheFreeDictionary.com defines fascism as: “A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.”
Other elements of fascism include:
- Powerful idea of nationalism
- Powerful executive control in government
- Lower human rights outlook
- Military reigns supreme
- Corporations wield great power
- Idea that National Security is at great risk to some threat
- Identifying of enemies/scapegoats that unifies citizens in Patriotism
- Mass media controlled by State and Corporations
- Fixed elections
- Rampant corruption
- Unlimited power held by police force
Amitola @ 22:
We're all considered useless eaters now. Or unqualified to lead the country, etc, etc.
Sad to see the City of Vallejo is declaring bankruptcy.
I think it's clear the corporations own America...
Land of the free? HAH!!!!
Freedom has nothing to do with civil liberties in the eyes of right wing vermin-its all about capitalism to them, the 'freedom' to make money at the expense of others
I understand from Thom Hartmann on Air America Radio that corporations are treated as individuals by the government. Why then do they get special priviliges under the law.
eric @ 26:
Because they are more important they WE.
Man, what is the difference between these republicans and a organized crime syndicate? They are sitting back and laughing their asses off at how easy it was to rip this country off in so many ways.
eric @ 26:
Because, corporations have video tapes of corrupt politicians, government officials, and judges accepting bribes.
Politicians Handbook
Rule Number 1
Tell the people what they want to hear
Rule number 2
Then do what you want to do
Rule Number 3
Repeat 1+2
Wait a minute here, isn't every human being on planet earth a "potential terrorist"?
I've got a great idea!
Pick a criminal on your local 'Most Wanted' list and email/fax their information with 'suggested legislation' to get them off the hook. Do it several times and over several days. Then pick another criminal and do the same thing...
Heck, if they want amnesty for criminals, give them more requests for amnesty for criminals! A WHOLE LOT MORE!!!
ya know @ 28:
Yes but they have to go to great lengths and expense to keep the populace brainwashed and distracted.
PinkyLeftBrain @ 32:
That was supposed to be fax/email to your local compliant democrat (or republican).
L.A. Confidential @ 33:
They haven't so far. They just happen to 'own' the media...
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
I think it's time for us to request France to take it's guillotine out of mothballs and send it here so that we may use it.
L.A. Confidential @ 30:
eric @ 26:
Easy answer. They write the laws for our lawmakers to pass.
eric @ 36:
Barbarism isn't the answer.
It would be more effective if everyone sat down, shut the country down and refused to move until the PTB met the demands of we the people.
A good start would be, stop the gasoline and oil genocide and we are not moving until you do so.
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
Seriously. What if everyone just didn't show up to work one day. And decided to stay put until this Government snaps out of their drunk. What they going to do order troops in to force everyone to go to work?
LOL don't think thats going to work.
Is this news? Unless you've been living in a spider-hole for the last 40 years, you would know democracy is a delusion in the U.S. This delusion merely facilitates the money-for-legislation system.
BobD @ 12:
Yeah, well I hate those ba$tards too! And I haven't been in agreement with all they get away with either... record profits while the price of gas and oil skyrockets... WTF is up with that too?!
"Spying on America is pro-American!"
Reich-wing motto 2008
right on! @ 41:
Cheney called it The Last Hurrah. Or get it while you can boys before the party ends.
Hoyer's website doesn't allow you to e-mail him unless you're a constituent. Nice . . .
I will like to be able to write my own legislation, too.
#44, Philip, try this link. If nothing else, it will give you phone and fax numbers as well as email and website info.
Just click on the state.
http://www.visi.com/juan/congress/
The energy companies wrote this country's energy "policy". Of course Warpig would let the telecoms write their own get out of jail free card!
Floridiot @ 8:
It's not actually a very good trick either, is it?
If anyone here wants to switch to a mobile provider who doesn't spy on us, and openly states they never will - as well as donating 1% of all your charges to progressive charities - I can't recommend Credo Mobile enough. I switched a few months ago in the heat of the last "immunity battle" and they've been great. Their customer service is wonderful (I've never had to wait more than a minute to get an actual human on the phone when I call) and often I have better reception then my friends. They don't yet have Blackberries or international plans so that's a drawback but otherwise I really recommend it. Plus, it was great telling Sprint I was canceling my account after eight years because I can't justify giving my money to a company that doesn't abide by the Constitution of the United States.
Add to that the fact that all bills are printed on recycled paper with soy ink, the donations to progressive charities supporting the environment, women's rights, third world aid and many others... I just really recommend it.
L.A. Confidential @ 39:
What if we used the power of the purse like our representatives refuse to do? The boldest way to protest would be a mass "tax boycott". They can't keep running a war, bailing out banks and lining the pockets of war-profiteers if we cut off their cash flow. Wouldn't it be great to let them know we aren't going to be extorted by their corrupt and dangerous greed anymore?
Plus, I doubt China would keep giving us bottomless loans if our government was suddenly "unemployed."
L.A. Confidential @ 43:
Then the "party" moved to the housing market. Record profits for refi-ing then dump and run with the money.
Now the party has moved to "oil speculating". Buy low, sell hhiigghh,
What's next? food? These crooks won't be happy til we are living in cardboard boxes along the highways.
It's said to say this, but I think that immunity will make it into law. I say this because of other issues where people in Congress took a stand and then backed down.
39
L.A. Confidential Says:
L.A. Confidential @ 38:
eric @ 36:
I think it’s time for us to request France to take it’s guillotine out of mothballs and send it here so that we may use it.
Barbarism isn’t the answer.
It would be more effective if everyone sat down, shut the country down and refused to move until the PTB met the demands of we the people.
A good start would be, stop the gasoline and oil genocide and we are not moving until you do so.
Seriously. What if everyone just didn’t show up to work one day. And decided to stay put until this Government snaps out of their drunk. What they going to do order troops in to force everyone to go to work?
LOL don’t think thats going to work.
No Peace, No Work!: We had a strike, and no one reported on it. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, did it make any sound??
right on! @ 6:
It's not outrageous when you consider that your average Congress critter is owned by these CEO's. You think the likes of Steny Hoyer or Nancy Pelosi are going to punish the telecoms??? So, you may ask, what is the solution? Public funding of campaigns, that's what. As long as Corporate Big Money gets these guys elected, this shit's never going to end.
How do you stop paying taxes when the same companies are the ones who pay them out of your check before you even receive said money?
I remember when I first filled out my W2, the instructions were easy, I wasn't liable for quite a lot. But then I wondered if I wasn't liable for paying taxes, then why does my employer take out a base amount anyway? And how could I get them to stop?
Yeah, good luck trying to stop them from taking it out. You would have to quit your job to put the government on notice.
Well tried the Hoyer site.. Denied based on my zip code.. Cute...
I'll give Pelosi, Feinstein and Boxer a try.. Probably won't matter, Pelosi has no spine, Feinstein is in bed with the telcoms herself... Dunno, maybe Boxer will raise a little hell over it... Those motherfuckers should definitely be held accountable for their actions. It's a doggone swa-weet deal when you can write your own ticket out of culpability for crimes committed against the American public and the constitution ... Total BULLSHIT too... Old School Pat@4 is spot on.. 9/11 had zero to do with this scam other than providing a quick excuse for the perps to trot it out publically, and sell to the more gullible in a concerted effort to paper over the criminality of this constitution trashing bullshit..... All in all, just another impeachable offense fomented and trotted up the flagpole that everyone inside the beltway continues to ignore...
For cryin out loud, will someone please unzip those two peckerheads trousers and create the apparently only type of 'crime' likely to get George and Dick into some kind of impeachable trouble.. Evi-damn-dently, ruining the nation culturally and economically, undermining world security and our military, wrecking random 2ed world nations who look at us funny, and bringing about the deaths and maiming of hundreds of thousands from around the world, and finally? Pissing all over the constitution daily ain't enough to get it done these days....
Why? Who the fuck knows anymore, I guess when those historians who Bushco is counting on to turn his punk ass into Harry Truman instead confirm what we all know...I.E. Bush was a witless dickhead and the worst president in this nations history, maybe they will come up with a rational reason why, in the face of all the evidence, in spite of the obvious, people who should have known better and had positions of authority to hold him accountable... Instead sat around whining with their thumbs up their asses doing zilch about him.....fucking spineless losers, would rather let the country go to hell in a handcart than step up and do what every reasonably thinking person knows needs doing!...I.E. Send the heads of every participating telcom to criminal trial and impeach this putz of a president and the most evil power freak who ever hid behind a curtin pulling strings from the position of vice president in this countries history...Impeach em, try them, and then render their asses to the Hague... THAT is what needs doing... And I know I ain't the only who thinks that................JD
i think steny hoyer and i have a much different idea what "promising" means.
also, note, hoyer's largest 2007 - 2008 Cycle Fundraising contributor:
Comcast Corp $19,500
http://www.opensecrets.org/politicians/summary.php?cid=N00001821&cycle=2008
this is why a lot of people are completely fed up with the democratic party. at least the republicans are honest in their attempts to destroy america and the middle class, the centrist-GOP-lite-dems (like hoyer, rahm, etc.) lie about their intentions.
Any email address to contact Hoyer directly; his page is only for the sliver he claims to represent.
Here's my letter to my Repug Congressman:
Dear Representative Johnson,
On the eve of yet another FISA/PAA debate, I am contacting you once again as an informed constutuent in this important matter. This issue has been heavily politicized, which is unfortunate considering the Constitutional principles of privacy and civil liberties hinging on this action.
I will always be a proponent of protecting the American People from danger first in all venues, however the Bush Administration has overstepped its charge to the extent of damaging the essence of what it means to be free. As a consequence, the President and his officials have been disingenuous in repeating fashion to all of us, and it is obvious.
You have voted in the past alongside the Whitehouse, while we have been spied upon and lied to. As our Representative, this seems to run counter what we should be able to expect. I've been impressed with other votes you have cast that run against mere party lines, but a vote as important as this must rise above the politics of fear and power, and serve the American People and Constitution and the ultimate power.
to Jack@56 Well said Jack, thanks, I was unable to type since my hands are clinched into a fist. I am sick of e-mailing,calling and writing these ass suckers over this tel-com deal. The issue here is keeping the truth of the outhouses crimes out of sight from the public more than immunity for tel-coms. We need to vote out every member of congress who has been in office before 06, except 1 or 2,who have held to their guns. Hoyer, madam non speaker, everyone! Almost every single member of congress, sitting before 06 has sold us out at one time or another and its way past time to throw them out! More than half should be in prison! Went things to change? Take our airwaves back into the control of the people, nothing will change untill we do that asap. To congress-You have been warned countless times-you give in, you get the fuck OUT! We will not forget or forgive! No excuse will excuse you. I will save the help wanted ads for anyone who not having the guts to stand up for us. how does this sound? Help wanted- gutless, chicken shits who think they are better than everyone else, will take bribes. good luck with that pussies!
I'd like to say, "I'm gong with CREDO!", but really have no idea how reputable any phone company is because of the nature of the beast, the business, and our current guv'ment. Still, they HAVE to be better than AT&T, morals-wise.
Sigh.
To bypass the zip requirement, use Hoyer's Maryland office address in the form:
6500 Cherrywood Lane, Suite 310
Greenbelt, MD 20770-1249
I do this all the time to write Congresspeople out of my district/state.
Their is a lady running for Nancy, bribe taking, criminal, Pelosis seat in 08 ,brasscheck tv has info about her. Check her out for supporting her. pelosi is a rat who has sold us out and she must go! I can't stand her " I'am a harmless old hippie with our best interest in mind" bullshit. She has fucked us and did not even have the guts to give us "a reach around" while she was doing it!
The only reason the dumocratic part of congress is actually doing anything to prevent this is because some of them were the subject of the wiretaps. Giving the administration or the telecoms the get out of jail free card wouldn't sit well with the administration's political competition. This is like Watergate legalized.....does anybody remember Watergate or is that distant history for everyone?
Why do we keep letting them get away with saying "...... after September 11th"? All of this started the day Bush (or should I say Rove) got into the White House. This is just Nixon/Hoover on steroids...... and for Gop's sake it is still going on......right now.....right here!
villastrangiato @ 63:
I don't remember Watergate - I wasn't born yet. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass or anything, i just think that is part of the problem - a lot of politically active young people such as myself really don't know much beyond the basic incidents in the Watergate scandal. We weren't there to watch it or feel it, and we can't draw any honest comparison between this administration and the Nixon administration.
If anyone too young to remember Watergate wants to learn more about it and see some very valid comparisons to this collection of twisted little clowns that calls itself an administration, I would recommend the excellent book "Worse than Watergate" by John Dean - it's a great primer on the wholesale abortion of government ethics written by someone who was there.
Why go after the companies? Individuals within those companies made the decisions. Go after them. If you think that guiltless employees and stockholders should be punished then go ahead, punish them. My view is to bring charges against those responsible including the government people who made the proposal to the Telecoms.
right on! @ 6:
What's the big deal? The credit card corporations wrote the Bankruptcy Bill themselves & just handed over to their senators & got it passed,... What's wrong with overturning usury laws & charging 29%?
Other than loan sharks are laughing at us,...
Please tell me where I can get several copies of the sticker that is on the phone in that photo.
davidATL @ 61:
I'm truly SICK of this zipcode dancing shit!
Some politicians in FL here have it set up, some don't. While I understand the desire to respond to the needs of constituencies (by zip code) with limited staff, one would think that a politician could at least accept emails from other areas. A simple disclaimer stating that email from outside the politician's area may not necessarily be responded to due to lack of time/staffing.
There's reason to believe the Bush Administrationb started this before 9/11.
That needs to be determined before even considering anything else, in my opinion.
Old School Patriot @ 4:
In February 2001 (a month after booosh took up residence in the WH), the feds used the leverage of promised fed gov comm contracts to get data from all the major telcoms. "Give us the data or you won't compete for these contracts." That's called extortion. And, when the former CEO of Qwest (Frank Nunchio) said "no," the feds went after him and convicted him of "insider trading." He's in jail. The data so dearly wanted by the fed, commonly referred to a "LUDS," reflect the date and time of each call, the call's duration, the caller's phone # and the called party's phone #. In the real world you need a warrant to get that data. Hell, even Jack McCoy (L/O), who'se not exactly known for following the spirit of the law, gets a warrant.
This should be count #1 of the indictment of George W. Bush.
Many, many more to follow.
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