Emphasizing faith-based appeals
By Steve Benen Sunday May 18, 2008 7:30amThe Wall Street Journal had an item the other day on the Obama campaign rolling out a “new nationwide faith effort” that will, among other things, make it clear that the Democratic candidate is a Christian.
The initiative represents a direct challenge to Republicans, who successfully wooed conservative evangelical votes that in turn fueled President Bush’s re-election in 2004. Liberal evangelicals — such as some members of mainline Protestant churches — have been vocal during this election season, reminding voters that some evangelicals favor abortion rights and gay marriage and oppose the Iraq war, and also vote Democratic.
“The Obama campaign is preparing a robust effort to reach out to people of all faiths, all religious backgrounds and moral beliefs and to bring new faith supporters in,” said Joshua Dubois, the Obama campaign’s director of religious affairs. “We’re trying to connect Americans to one to another. …What we’re conveying is his Christian faith and his core values.”
It’s apparently quite an aggressive initiative on the campaign’s part. The Journal noted that Obama’s team has distributed copies of a letter by the senator, “intended to be read during church services, highlighting the senator’s Christian beliefs.” A letter distributed in Ohio said, “[I]f there is one thing I’ve learned from my time as a community organizer…it’s that ordinary people, with the grace of an awesome God, can do extraordinary things.”
This came up a bit in January, when the Obama campaign produced a direct mail piece, featuring pictures of Obama praying and speaking from a pulpit. It featured a large graphic that reads, “Committed Christian,” touts the “power of prayer,” and includes an account of the moment that “Obama felt a beckoning of the spirit and accepted Jesus Christ into his life.” Similar pieces hit mailboxes in Kentucky last week.
This seem a bit excessive, but given the coordinated smear campaign against the Democrat, and public confusion over his faith, Obama probably doesn't have much of a choice.
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The dark cloud of cognitive dissonance hangs heavy over the U.S. Homeland.
http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/18/record_obama_crowd_t...
Good morning, everyone!
Steve, I agree with your conclusion. Maybe some day things like this won't be necessary but unfortunately this isn't that day.
Nobody got this when Obama went on his "We hate fags tour"? A bigot through and through.
So he's not a muslim, eh?
It's really disgusting that we're living in a time and place where a significantly huge percentage of voters actually care about anybody else's religious beliefs. And I don't even know if I wanna ask what Steve was talking about at #3... either way, off to work.
Maybe some REAL "christian values" will find their way into our national policies - foreign & domestic.
How about a campaign to reach out to those of us who don't have imaginary friends?
Talking with my brother on Mother's Day he repeated the mantra that Obama is a Muslim. I ask, What? To which he replied I don't want to go there.
He now is the recipient of my email blitz.
The photo is extremely disturbing. I thought the Democratic party respects the "separation of church and state."
Even Jesus advocated that!
No vote for a church peddler!
I'm an athiest and I find popular myth an affront to my sensibilities ...
I have no imaginary friend but Obama's intelligence and understanding of where our country is today and the changes we need to make are the ways he reached out to me.
I respect any ones religion as long as they don't demand that I share their beliefs. I also understand that religion is important to many here in the US and around the world. Just because it isn't important to me, I certainly can't demand that it not be important to them.
I can't understand why anyone needs to act offended because he is happy in his spiritual relationship. I believe the progressive party should practice a bit more tolerance of all faiths, otherwise we would be no better than the republican christians. The tent is plenty big enough for people all faiths as well as no faith. There is no reason to place lines of division in this great big tent.
The photo is extremely disturbing. I thought the Democratic party respects the “separation of church and state.”
Even Jesus advocated that!
No vote for a church peddler!
He's countering a Republican lie, and, as Steve says, he doesn't have much choice. Do you really not understand the difference?
Scott @ 3:
Thank god you where safe, since it wasn't a "We hate Morons" tour". Do you even know what the hell you're talking about.
It's really a shame that a country that was once the leader in Sciences has to have their representatives even have to mention Religion. I am sure that many who are in public office have NO religious beliefs, but are under pressure from the religious community to claim they do.
Believing in talking snakes and women made out of ribs is certainly some kind of insanity. I'm no expert, but the idea of all this is just so much bull, like astrology, people thinking that some distant galaxy or star being in a certain position at the time of their birth makes them special. It's all so much clap-trap.
What is up with this video blackout of Obama's record crowd in Oregon yesterday? I have looked on every news sight and even Youtube AND C&L and nobody has any footage of this thing...I can't believe 70,000plus people showed up to his rally and nobody brought a camera. it's weird!
This is why I can't stand Obama. His message is - 'hey we're just as superstitious and fundamental as those Republicans.' Why can't it be - 'hey, my religious beliefs are my own damn business and even non-fundagelicals can be good americans.' Bah, just furthers the idea that you have to be Xtian to be a patriot.
Ick.
But what if faith doesn't appeal to me?
I have a problem with "faith-based". Are there any "faith-based" organizations which aren't religious? Faith-based is a term created by the Bushies to deflect criticism from the patently unconstitutional use of government money in support of established religions.
Since such use is one of the few areas where the constitution is (or was) unambiguous it is necessary to use subterfuge and newspeak to get around the provision. To wit: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
The, majority conservative Catholic, supreme court was willing to trash this provision for having some of the money thrown to their religion as well. This did this by means of the most outrageous bending of the law imaginable, claiming that the president used his "own" funds to fund his "faith based" office and, therefore, it wasn't congress. Of course, all the president's fund are allocated by congress to begin with so this is a transparent lie.
All of which is to say, if you mean religious groups then say religious groups, not "faith-based", or do people feel uncomfortable tying candidates and public officials to established religions? If they do, then using euphemisms is not the solution, examine the sources of discomfort instead.
15 ♠Bangkok-Bob♠
The Bible refers to a serpent not a snake. Additionally it refers only to a forbidden fruit not an apple, which seems to come from Greek/Norse/Celtic mythology. Greek has the golden apples of Hesperides, Norse the apples of immortality of the Goddess Idun, and Celtic of course Ynys Avalloch, now our Isle of Avalon (before it became a car.)
As for Eve, according to tradition Adam was mating with animals so God made his first wife was Lilith (whether the elder or the younger I'm not sure, more or less a reflection of God's wife Shekhina), there was also an Elder Eve that was never brought to life, because Adam watched her creation and was grossed out by the site of tissues, bones and veins etc, so he was put to sleep for the third and final mate. Of course Adam was the terresial version of the Cosmic Adam Kadmos.
Campaigning with homophobes, pushing xtianity down my throat, elevating his faith as the only legitimate wellspring of "values".... This is why Obama had always been pretty far down on my list. I'll support him because McCain is undoubtedly more dangerous to the country but he and Clinton are both much less superstitious than Obama.
Constitution Article. VI. snippet:
CoIntelPro for Democratic Party Victory @ 4:
I hear he's black.
Oopsie, I forgot to mention that in Medieval and Renaissance art, the snake became the accepted form, but wasn't the devil, but Lilith tempting her successor, Eve.
I've often wondered if this was the original version of the crone offering an apple to Snow White.
ysbaddaden @ 20:
Thanks, I can always use a good chuckle.
Once again, I find myself hating the GOP for what they have turned elections into. When you are on the defensive all the time, it is much harder to make your case and move forward.
This issue is totally superfluous to Obama's potential qualities as president. His religion is his own business. The GOP (or Fox News) made it open season from day 1.
It's a slippery slope for Obama too. His most reliable voters, supporters and campaigners will be the well educated. This is the same group that can see through the fallacy of dogmatic religion. He needs this (atheist leaning?) base, and we need him. I fear the campaign slipping into distraction and loss of momentum because of nonsense like this.
This must be part of that "appealing to bigoted voters" strategy.
ysbaddaden @ 24:
Dogma chasing Karma
Margaret @ 21:
You're funny because even when you're spinning this stuff, you do it in such a way that leaves the reader feeling insulted that you'd think he/she can't see through your rhetoric.
Scott @ 3:
I don't know what drug you're on, or coming off of, but Obama clearly has the most diverse, inclusive organization of any of the candidates. Please provide factual information to support your ridiculous bullshit claim, troll.
Marge Simpson @ 29:
If you can see through rhetoric, it isn't rhetoric.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 28:
Dogma chasing catharsis.
ysbaddaden @ 31:
Thanks, your making my evening better, It's like a snark tank.
Marge Simpson @ 29:
"Spinning this stuff"? Are you attempting to deny that Obama toured South Carolina with Donnie McClurkin? Partisan Democrats are every bit as insane as partisan republicans in some cases. Bad news Marge: Obama is not perfect and he did tour with a vocal bigot to drum up right wing xtian votes in South Carolina and those are the facts, despite your scorn. Maybe you could drag your nose out of the bible long enough to read a newspaper.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 33:
You can say I'm jumping the snark.
Scott @ 3:
Wasn't that already the name of a Culture Club with Boy George tour?
Margaret @ 21:
Actually, no.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/2/20/02150/0194
Why be honest and forthright when one can do what, and only what, these sorts of "christians" will accept, since it's the only talent they have: grovelling in the most publically obsequious fashion before their feet-of-clay idea of "god" ?
If such a thing as a sould existed, it would not be worth selling it in such a manner, even for such a purpose. How can you lead a people whose respect you are unwilling to risk losing?
A.J.Joe @ 36:
Lucky Rabbits foot ? ... not so lucky for the rabbit (unless he threw salt over his left shoulder)
Obama finds himself in the Rethug-created untenable position between an agnostic and a Muslim. I think he, unfortunately, has to respond by doing some sort of ad to show that he IS a man of faith to appeal to the middle of the country.
Sure, he won't be Christian enough for them all (thank GOD...) or "white" enough for others (what can ya do?), but this sort of ad will appeal to (hopefully) enough semi-religious people. Sad, but this IS politics, folks.
I can see why Obama has to do this but I can also see a possible silver lining behind it as well. There are many liberal religious people (and I know several) out there that are turned off by the extreme views held by the Republicans. Yet, when they look at the Dems they really don't see much to identify with either so they simply do not vote or they vote independant. They see the two parties as being opposite ends of extreme views. They see one party as being completely absorbed by extremist religious views while the other totally excludes religion which in turn they see as excluding them. Obama may find a whole, untapped block of voters that have been left out all of these years. These voters do not expect or want a candidate that beats Jesus or some other figure into their lives. Just a simple recognition of the candidate's faith if he/she has any will suffice.
It saddens me that we have to make our tent big enough to include idiots. If xtians spent like 10 minutes researching their man-god, they would realize he is no less fictional than Zeus or Superman.
But for Obama, I guess I'll be biting my tongue on this till November.
SM @ 9:
Just like getalife, Dennis, man hater Marge, it is clear from your 100% anti-Obama posts SM, you hate the guy...we get it. The other night when you whined and complained all night after Edwards endorsed Obama, you were so sad and pathetic. All the candidates (including Hillary and Bill(who you once incredibly called a "black icon")) pander to a degree to get the religious vote. So don't just point out the one you hate.
ysbaddaden @ 24:
Probably. Religion is myth, and myths just get recycled over and over.
You have to wonder what the dwarves represented.
Miatch @ 41:
Yeah, I still have a collectors copy of the San Francisco Chronicles Front Page Story titled
"Superman Kills Self"
Numinous @ 43:
I think I'll break out of here and do an hour of Google to find out what the Seven Dwarfs were supposed to represent.
♠Bangkok-Bob♠ @ 38:
Yeah, knock on wood. Here's the C&L link on superstitious McCain:
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/05/05/superstition-aint-the-way/
Numinous @ 43:
The powers of nature if you accept the Faustian (Goethe version) of kobolds and gnomes being the embodiment of the North (earth) direction.
Miatch @ 41:
There are strong religious overtones in the original superman comics.
El was the original name of god in the hebrew texts.
superman was the son of Jor 'El'.
The creators of superman were jewish, just so you know. They weren't being very subtle.
As a Christian I am more than disappointed. I'm almost to the point of dispair.
Why can't people understand we need to keep the religion out of politics? If we don't, we'll have the government in the church next. Or worse, OFFICIAL government churches. Next step = all Americans must believe the same.
I was hoping Obama would rise above this.
My problem with religion is that it seems to be the antithesis of freedom-In religion, you are taught to obey, you are taught that you are inferior, you are taught not to question...People can worship Jesus, Budda or the Goddess to their heart's delight- It's not my cup of tea- The homophobes and war mongers soured religion for me..
Americans seem so obsessed with Jesus- Aren't religions supposed to be seperate from politics?
Some religious people are cool- The local Unitarianists help the community, are pro gay rights, help the homeless, etc...Other Christian groups preach hate and bigotry- I have no use for any religion that preaches self hatred, and the hatred of others....
But I think this is a political move- both parties see there are many religious zealots in America, and if you are not on your knees to Jesus, they won't vote for you-
Here is a mystery- In the 50s and 60s, progressive movements such as civil rights and peace in Vietnam had many people of faith taking to the streets- Faith in God was what drove Martin Luther King and Malcolm X....
Somehow, the left abandoned faith, and the right embraced it....Why did this happen?
Start a rumor that he's a homosexual so we can watch him go on a crusade against same-sex marriage and playing a football publicity-stunt game, maybe even sport a cowboy hat once or twice. Then say he loves destroying the environment so we can check him out cruising in a hybrid and planting a tree.
(these things have probably happened already, eh?)
While I understand why a candidate does these things, I think it's quite telling about how pathetic the political game has become, and the public's understanding of what is actually significant in an election. Obama spans gaps most other candidates couldn't cross without risk, if at all, so that path is likely unavoidable for him...but it's not like he's a special case. Many candidates don that shameless, please-everybody facade, and it seems that there is no shortage of citizens that are willing the lap it up.
Oh well...the game continues...
Left&Left @ 42:
Oh boy, here we go.
Double standards have always been part of the Obama Rulz.
Think of it, if any self-respecting Democrat would appear on a pamphlet the way Obama did, with his lit up cross, preaching from a pulpit, "commited Christian" messaging, you'd call him a pandering sellout.
Oh, but of course, Obama is "defending his faith."
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying the cross." - Sinclair Lewis (1935)
I guess this is what Obama meant when he thought the Republican Party is the party of "good ideas."
Numinous @ 43:
If you accept the theories of the original folklorists Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm, these stories go through stages of being gospel truth, myth and legend, folklore, and finally fairy-tales for children.
Numinous @ 48:
At first Superman's father had no name, then he was Jor-L, and later versions after Siegal and Schuster left after an unsuccessful lawsuit against DC did the E get added.
I'm still a Kucinich man- He was our only hope, when he dropped out, I saw America's future go with him....I like neither Obama nor Clinton...But Have to vote for one..it may come down to dong the 'one potato two potato' game to picking a candidate- Its basically a scenerio where either would be better than McCain, but as to which Democrat to chose...I don't know..
If The democrats do go down the 'faith' path, they should remind Christians that Jesus preached peace, and helped the sick and the poor- and that's what wer are going to do- Have peace, and help the poor...
Funny how so many right wing Christains love Jesus, but hate what he stood for..
Gretchen @ 49:
I agree with you. Theocratic Authoritarianism is very dangerous. It's just another form of Fascism.
Every time government and the church has undergone a merger, human rights go right out the window. Censorship, isolationism, and secret prisons become common. Following that it's war, War, WAR.
This country is staring to become a breeding ground for the ignorant, fearful, and hateful.
Stop supporting these criminals. It's not like what we're seeing hasn't happened before. Think of Germany in the 1930's.
That's right.
You know what? The Bush family was right in the thick of it, supporting and recruiting for old Adolf. Prescott Bush was caught red handed. Even righting virtual love letters to old Adolf and blatantly supporting his genocide.
The Bush family has been war profiteering and engaging in anti-American interests, causing the deaths of many americans, for generation.
They should be tried as traitors.
Prescott should have ridden 'old sparky' back when he was caught.
Stop catering to the delusional.
It's just disappointing. It is pandering, pure and simple. Of course it's understandable. But you know what? That's called "politics as usual" and no amount of simpleminded Obamafanspin is going to explain it away. We've seen what Clinton was willing to do, now we're looking at what Obama's willing to do. Call it the erosion of hope. I'll still vote for him, still think he's the best standing candidate, but it is disappointing, this pandering.
I am so sick of xtian politics. The US is like a superstitious child with a gun collection.
..."they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion..."
So the O is clinging to religion for votes now. Guess we'd better get out of his way if he picks up a 12 gauge.
SM @ 52:
Obama=fascism. Everything's clear to me now....you're psychotic with your anger for Obama. And by the way, how many beers and shots did that newly alcoholic Hillary drink just to get votes in West Virginia? Pandering is one thing, fucking up your liver and pandering is another.
The problem is that while trying to appease everyone, you may offend more than just those who you've tried to connect with. I also agree that religion needs to help define people, but we need to look more at the person's integrity, service and record rather than what church they attend. I think Mitt Romney suffered from this when going up against Huckabee early on.
This is the kind of activity that not only leaves me baffled that it must be done but also really disappoints me about Obama. I know, it’s the “real world” but to me unless I can see it, I don’t believe it and the phrase “power of prayer” is laughable at best. Hey Obama, I support you but now you know where you can stick your gods and prayers, I live in the 21st century thank you!
This is ridiculous- I can't believe how many people keep saying "Obama HAS to do this". No he doesn't. The people who actually care what religion he is weren't going to vote for him anyway, they were just looking for an excuse to demonize him.(unfortunate that being Muslim is a negative to these people).
Obama's not about to lose the general election due to his religion- its pretty obvious that McCain just cannot win looking at the number of republican voters nowadays(especially republicans that support McCain, many don't). If he wins it'd be some other type of underhandedness. This christian initiative is pointless.
If herr dubyah displayed real Christian values and actually acted like a Christian, he would have never been elected in the first place.
emphasa @ 23:
I think he is gray. Half black + half white = gray. Look at your color chart.
If you mix black paint with white paint, you always wind up with gray paint. Maybe different shades of gray, but always gray.
Maybe he's just human.
Dr. Biitter Hussein (Mission Accomplished) Matt @ 64:
He never was elected, he was appointed.
Left&Left @ 60:
I'm not psychotic, I'm very realistic. Obama's campaign made a grave error here. This was not the message to send people that he accused of clinging to guns & God, and try to downplay his Wright association.
And Obama's beer swilling/pool playing photo op makes him an alcoholic by your standards.
Anything you can do with religion can be done without it.
Preferably without it.
Probably more cheaply and without as many sexual battery charges as well.
power of prayer? The power of pander more like.
Obama's faith is his own business. As long as he keeps it separate from his governance he can worship Ba'al for all I care.
I'm more concerned with the political debt that McCain will owe John "Armageddon Now" Hagee and Rod "America Must Destroy Islam" Parsley if he gets elected.
bill DOH @ 65:
He's a terrible bowler.....certainly a hot button issue among the same subhuman scum that "think" the Wright issue is for real.
Rusty Shackleford @ 69:
I totally agree- I'm pretty tired of politicians who claim to be Christian-yet demonstrate zero interest in doing what Jesus would do- such as help others, end suffering, strive for peace, etc...
The interesting thing about the radical Christians and Muslims is that they are on many levels indistinguishable. Mittens once slammed Muslims because, in his words, ' they are so obsessed with their god'- Then he went on to harp about the importance of having (Christian) faith,and worshipping God. ...
Dr. Biitter Hussein (Mission Accomplished) Matt @ 70:
And he's got a healthy liver since you don't see pics of him swilling booze like Billary did.
SM@67
SM,
Obama is a gentleman so he would never say what I'll say...Those clingers to GOD and guns can go and fuck themselves(or their siblings)! No matter what Obama would have done those 19th century ass backwards freaks won't support him... mainly because of his permanent sun tan. I'm sure he'd like their support and he will campaign in hillbillyland, but he knows the story. And please let the Wright thing go, OK? Only you and Fox news still think this dead horse is still alive. Obama '08.
The hell he doesn't have a choice! I, as a secularist, as in my beliefs or lack thereof are no one's damn business, don't appreciate being thrown under the bus. Yes, I'm an Obama supporter. But pluheeze. This crap doesn't work. We won't win this way. And I don't really appreciate being alienated.
lilybelle @ 74:
I couldn't have said it better.
This is so NOT what the Founding Fathers envisioned for our country. If it were, they would have been very clear about including Jesus in the Constitution. There are valid reasons that they did not, and even went so far as to clarify that America is NOT a Christian Nation on several occasions, and one treaty.
Until we non-religious Americans are welcomed into the political arena, this country still has a very long way to go.
What about the separation of church and state? PANDERING!! ANYTHING TO GET ELECTED! WHAT A FRAUD!
YEAH Emphasa just a coke snorting liar!
Left&Left @ 73:
So why does he appear on a pamphlet on a pulpit preaching under a lit cross? Surely says a lot to me. IMO, Obama should have run as a Republican - he has the whole religion pandering schtick down. Even the fascism & scary horde of rabid zealots who can't seem to grasp that the race ain't over yet.
It's pathethic and shameful that the DNC & the media is doing to Hillary Clinton what was done to Gore. COUNT THE VOTES, all of them, MI & FL!
I wish Obama would make up his mind. I thought he was an America-hating madrassa educated Muslimofascist who is secretly planning to take over the US and make it a slave state to Hamas and Hezbollah. I bet he doesn't wear an American flag lapel pin cuz his wife won't allow him to display such "pride" in his country. That's why he's the candidate of choice of terrorists, both domestic (Rev. Wright and Ayers) and foreign (Osama Bin Laden). Oh yeah, he's also an appeaser. An appeaser who appeases. Appeeeeeeeeeaser!! </snark
The sad part is, I have to include the /snark tag, because far too many people actually believe the swill I just typed. Obama needs more surrogates to swat away these stupid right-wing talking points, rather than do it himself. As LBJ famously said to his campaign manager, it doesn't matter if the allegations are true, I just want to hear the SOB deny it.
Be prepared for an ugly general election campaign.
Are we not all men,
Don't we all fart
Then laugh about it?
Obama doesn't capitulate on wearing a flag pin, yet he capitulates on the issue of his Christian creds.
I guess Axelrod has calculated that there are more Christians in America than patriots. What next? Photos of Michelle and Obama kneeling in the pew, heads bowed in prayer, a halo of soft diffuse light enveloping them against a background of stained glass?
Inserting religion into politics is like peeing in the swimming pool. I don't care how many people do it, I don't care how they justify it, it's offensive.
Anonymous Source @ 5:
I'll tell you, Obama was campaigning in the South with an ex-gay singer. As a gay man I disliked the bastard from then on in. But, he's likely going to be the nominee and despite his fetish for invading Pakistan (which would make Iran look easy by comparison) I have to stand by him, because McPapen is just a kook. There's no real good choices on the gay rights front this election.
Mr. Hand @ 51:
I happen to be a Christian anarchist, by now. Yes, a gay Christian anarchist. I'm John Hagee's worst nightmare.
MikeB @ 52:
No offense, but have you ever considered the idea that he actually has a strong connection to his religion? I'm as cynical as the next guy, but I know lots of people, brilliant well-educated people, who still go to church on Sundays and truly believe in Christianity.
It's not for me, but I'm just saying... stranger things have happened. I would believe his faith as genuine much sooner than I would lots of other candidates. He has attended weekly services for 20 years and was active in his church. You don't do that if you're a closet atheist.
Mike @ 13:
Yes,
Obama's kowtowing to a religious test!
Article VI. Sec. III:
R E M E M B E R:
THEY(sic) HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS...
And so THEY(sic) entertain debates about the merits to undermining these freedoms.
Obama just entered the debate...
.
As much as I believe that religion is a private choice among the lines of "to each their own", am I the only distressed how the lines of church and state are blurred in the campaign for President (as well as for any Congressional office as well)?
Why does the Christian faith seems to supercede all other religions here? Do Christians forget that there are Buddists, Wiccans, Atheists, Agnostics, Jewish believers, Muslims, Shintoists and many other faiths out there other than them?
Does any one else feel ashamed that politicians have to pander to only the Christians?
I ran across something funny today.
"For many are called, but few are chosen." (Matthew 22:14 KJV).
"For 'many,' as they say in the mysteries, 'are the thyrsus-bearers, but few are the mystics." (Socrates as per Plato in this Diologue with Phaedo in Five Great Dialogues.)
Plato lived from 469--399 BCE.
In an early part of the play The Oresteia, by Aeschylus some soldiers referred to a game called pettia, and a footnote explained that was a game like backgammon with three dice. Whoever gets 3 6's wins the board. That's in effect 666.
There's also a Biblical reference to "The sons of Adonikam, 666" (Ezra 2:12 KJV).
666 is found in where we read. “The weight of the gold that Solomon received yearly was 666 talents, not including the revenues from merchants and traders and from all the Arabian kings and the governors of the land.” (1 Kings 10:14-15)
Only in Revelations is the number used in this sense, "This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666" (Revelations 13:18 KJV).
However, the Pagan Greeks seemed to be first with specifying that number as something special.
Interesting to note that if you add up 666 as 6+6+6 you get 18, and then to get a single numeral value 1+8=9. In numerology, 9 is the last number because at 10 1+0-1, you're simply starting over a whole new cycle.
It's sad and pathetic that in the 21st century you need to run around announcing that you have an imaginary friend in order to become President. But, if that's what Obama needs to do to stop Grampa McCain from destroying this country, more power to him.
I am occasionally asked why I won't vote for anyone or anything.
Well, as far as the anyone part is concerned, it's because crap like “Obama felt a beckoning of the spirit and accepted Jesus Christ into his life.” ... always happens.
When some candidate says faith = childish belief without proof, or words to that effect, I'll consider voting.
Anyone whose primary allegiance is to some god, has a lesser allegiance to the constitution, and will eventually double-cross the constitution
Sorry "...at 10 1+0=1...
ysbaddaden @ 88:
number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9, number 9.
The Very Appeasing and Bittter Ceci Hussein @ 87:
Yes. Even though (disclaimer alert!) I'm Christian, I'd love to see a traditionalist gay Native American female as President. When that happens, this country will have gotten somewhere.
And also because Native American dances are so much cooler than white dances.
The Very Appeasing and Bittter Ceci Hussein @ 87:
Not ashamed; angry.
mudshark @ 92:
And then we get nekkid.
That was always my favorite Beatle song.
This should read, "In numerology, 9 is the last number because at 10 1+0=1, you’re simply starting over a whole new cycle."
General_Rennenkampf @ 93:
Of course they're cooler, they're only wearing butt-flaps.
The Very Appeasing and Bittter Ceci Hussein @ 87:
No, they pander to the Zionists as well... although Zionists aren't exactly Jewish.
General_Rennenkampf @ 93:
With such a leader, we would have truly embraced change in this country. I would love to see her as well. However, America is still bogged down by people who are small-minded bigots who only have a narrow interpretation of faith and Americanism. Those are the real enemies against change. :(
I'm getting pretty tired of the morons that write for and comment on this blog.
[Deleted. If that's the case Scott, feel free to not visit the site and/or comment here. Look at yourself before you start name calling. I'd say it's a moron who voluntarily hangs out in a place he doesn't like-Sitemonitor]
These insane Christian fascists has been the death of the United States. They rail against Islamic terrorists and yet these insane Christians have been the sold force that has destroyed everything that the United States supposedly stood for -- no insane Islamic colleague of their could have accomplished what these Christian terrorists and traitors have done to us.
Toi Su @ 100:
I could not agree more. If you call yourself christian, you are a bigoted, ignorant, hateful moron. With all of the information out there today, you decide to stay ignorant and hateful.
You say that is not you... Well, the last time we put christians on trial (and it has been way to long) was the nazi's (and I don't want to hear how it was an atheist movement, that goes against all evidence), the world determined that if you support it, you are responsible!
Christians, take some personal responsibility and either educate yourselves or kick some christian butt. Don't leave it all to the sane minority of us who reject this crap.
Scott @ 99:
You are a moron Scott, if you consider that site creditable. After Rev. Wright, the bitter comment, lapel pins, etc., do you actually believe that if your bullshit innuendo were true the MSM wouldn't jump on that story? OK, you're through with American morons. I'm through with all morons. Goodbye moron.
SM @ 9:
EXACTLY....and it reminds me again that people think of obama as some sort of messiah.
Separation of church and state is supposed to be just that....sending out letters to churches to be read from the pulpit....appalling. Here is some info on obama's supposed journey to christianity, brought about by his good friend, pastor, mentor, spiritual advisor, Rev. Wright...
http://www.freedomsenemies.com/_Obama/ObamaReligion.htm
Kyle @ 89:
It goes hand and hand with obama's imaginary experience and qualifications to be president.
PssttCmere @ 104:
Don't pissed Obama off before the debates troll. He'll take away McWar's walker, yellow false teeth, and most importantly...his painkillers and viagra. Then he'll kick McFucked up's old dusty ass.
[Deleted. Off topic and abusive-Sitemonitor]
Scott@106 If this were a creditable story the MSM or at least FOX would had jumped all over this.
Left&Left @ 107:
why would they do that? Hateful christian morons are their base. Yea, tell their bigoted base that the other guy is a bigot too.
More morons! More than I would have thought possible in one place!
If I was running for office, I wonder what beliefs I would highlight?
Scott @ 108:
Why would they not do it? Remember the bitter comment?
Save me Jebus!
Christianitiy appears to have died with the diaspora of 70 ce.
bitter-bilhelm-X @ 111:
I know your reference is to Homer (Simpson)
But Jebus was the earliest name for Jerusalem
And what with the Latinized name for the insular Gaulish god Esus
Yeshoua's name changed.
Obama an anti-gay bigot. Americans as a whole are anti-gay bigots. Why not play to that. Get as much of the majority bigot vote as you can!
You want MSM. CNN good enough for [Deleted. Abusive. Site Monitor]! They softpeddle it, but here it is.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/obama-supporter-god-deli...
[Scott, the comment, even after the deletion, is oh-so close to being off topic, and probably flamebait to boot. The deleted bit is unquestionably flamebait of the general sort. BTW, C&L carried the story you linked when it happened- that would have been October and November of '07. Not really news here. Thank you. Site Monitor.]
oh no Obama is talking about Christianity.
We better look out 'cause next thing you know he might be trying to feel that poor.
Politics is all about selling your soul. No way around it. Anyone who's seen the "I've had enough of Hussein", Jon Stewart video (hilraious!!!!!!) knows he just might have to go to this (religious) place, to get elected. Sob.
The Very Appeasing and Bittter Ceci Hussein @ 87:
I'm angry and (disclaimer alert as with the General) I'm Christian. As I've stated here many times, politics and our elected officials should be religion-neutral in their campaigns as well as in office. They should not be pandering to ANY group. Ideally a campaign is for a candidate to state their platform and allow the voters to decide. We've somehow turned that into a forum for lying, backstabbing and general sucking up. And that, my friends, is how someone like the shrub steals our highest office and proceeds to run the country into the ground for a few to profit. Someone needs to wake up to this fact very soon.
What I am ashamed of is the many posts here that bash Christianity (and religion in general) in such a wholesale fashion. The only place I've seen so much hate is (get those flame throwers ready!) from right wing neocon Hagee-following zealots that call themselves Christian. Does tossing hate on top of hate make any situation better? If you would substitute the word "gay" or "black" or "female" or "asian" for Christian in some of those statements you would bring a whole world of trouble down. But Christian? Hey, let's lob a few more their way.
SOME Christians such as Hagee, Falwell and Robertson have spewed some vile stuff. Hating back at all Christians because of these idiots is just not smart. Many of these people used to vote the straight repub ticket because they were told to like a herd of sheep. Not smart. Now many cannot reconcile themselves to voting on that side of the ticket and are looking at voting democrat for the first time in their lives. I talked with almost TWO DOZEN last Saturday night - at a little country church out in the sticks. This is the reddest county in a state that is pretty red itself. If this is any indication of things to come it is GOOD. They won't, however, be tempted to go anything left of republican if they keep hearing the left hating on them for their religion.
C'mon. Just accept us. Not all of us fight teaching evolution. Many of us don't judge and are firm believers in the separation of church and state. Not all of us go through every day trying to coerce people to come to Jesus. Many of us are educated and successful in our careers. As for the rest, just call the jerks out for being assholes and leave their religion out of it.
PssttCmere @ 104:
Stand back and take a good look at Bush. Then think about your comment. Bush is qualified for what exactly? Certainly not to be president!!!!! Obama will be a fine president.
Gretchen @ 117:
Gretchen: would you vote for an atheist? I'm just curious. I've heard allegedly liberal Christians - on this site, even - proclaim that atheists are not fit to hold public office.
---- quote from C&L -----
[Scott, the comment, even after the deletion, is oh-so close to being off topic, and probably flamebait to boot. The deleted bit is unquestionably flamebait of the general sort. BTW, C&L carried the story you linked when it happened- that would have been October and November of ‘07. Not really news here. Thank you. Site Monitor.]
So, I am called a moron [Deleted. I didn't call you a moron, but if the shoe fits...BTW Re-read what you said. You called everyone on the site a moron. Several times. And 'idiotes.' And it's obvious you are causing a faux fuss to create a post on your own blog. Good luck with that-Sitemonitor]
Rusty Shackleford @ 119:
I would certainly vote for an atheist, provided I felt that person held the best qualifications for the office. I'm sure I've voted for a couple in the past and I've never voted for a republican in my life. I really don't want to know what religious beliefs any candidate has, or indeed if they have any at all. The only people who are not fit to hold public office are those who place special interests between themselves and their duties. In my opinion religion is a special interest. If a Christian candidate can do their job and keep their faith out of their work and concentrate on the good of their ENTIRE constituency and their state or country, then I don't have a problem voting for them. The problem is that few self-proclaimed Christian candidates fit this bill and they are too busy pandering to the Christian right to bother with the rest of the people. I'm not alone on this but our voices are seldom heard over the yapping of the Falwellites and Hagee-kissers. They don't seem to want to understand the full implications of true separation of church and state.
And no, I'm not a Unitarian. I'm a fundamentalist.
120 scott Says:
"...rather than correcting the people that called me a moron... "
So you're trying to prove them right?
92 mudshark
I lost my mind years ago, and haven't missed it since.
I picked this up in an email blast from my evangelical, repub relatives yesterday:
http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036
I think I know why the Obama camp is trying to reach out now. They've obviously had this in the can waiting to see who'd get the Dem nomination and they think they know it now.
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
Rollo Tomassi @ 124:
Why do people listen to comments taken out of context and base an opinion on them? This is nothing but a collection of sound bytes put together with the intent to discredit. It is too bad most people can't understand this simple propaganda tool. There is little hope of getting them to understand anymore; we've all been conditioned to sound bytes for years.
As for the video? 13 minutes of total bullshit. And Michelle's comment on how she is proud of America now "for the first time in her adult life"? I'm 46 years old and have never been proud of my country in my adult life. I applaud her for her honesty.
Rusty Shackleford @ 119:
Although this is directed at Gretchen, as the other unapologetic Christian, I'll unapologetically state I would vote Bertrand Russell, for an example, over Jerry Falwell into office. I would vote many atheists into office over many Christians. It takes more balls to be an atheist even in 21st Century America than it does to pander to the "Jebus, guns, and gays" crowd.
I'm sick of religion in politics and pandering to religious types. It's impossible for me to accept that the mixing politic and religion produces anything of value. It's a mix that produces only poison. When politicians start talking about religion, they're mostly-to-invariably pandering inorder to manipulate. When religious types get into politics, they're no longer concerned about faith or spirituality...just power for it's own sake. The mix of the two is always mutually corrupting, and never has anything to do with morality.
Gretchen @ 121:
That's good to hear, Gretchen. Thanks!
General_Rennenkampf @ 127:
Thanks, General R!
Faith-based peels sounds like a name of strippers for Jesus act.
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