John McCain flip flops and refutes Catholic hater and Hitler quoting John Hagee: UPDATED
Finally, after all the weeks and weeks that the liberal blogs have tried to wake up the traditional media to report on McCain's courting of the Catholic hating Pastor, John Hagee, they finally got on board and did a little basic reporting. And guess what? McCain is now rejecting him. And Wolf says that McCain had a sudden change of heart. See what I mean? Via CNN's The Situation Room: Vid coming...
It's not enough to appease John McCain at this point, who now is completely rejecting his endorsement. Here is a statement that we just got a short time ago from John McCain.
"Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible, and I repudiate them. I did not know of them before Revered Hagee's endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well."
Pretty big news from John McCain who had counted on Pastor Hagee to enhance his conservative credentials.
You'll note that Brian Todd dutifully pushes McCain's POV, that Hagee was not his pastor. Then why did he go out of his way to court him? I Like the way CNN takes credit for breaking the Hagee story...
Will the media question Lieberman's support of Hagee too?
LIEBERMAN: Well, look, I think that the DNC is obviously doing this because they set Pastor Hagee as some kind of response to Reverend Wright Enhanced Coverage for Senator Obama. But I don’t think that’s fair in the basic way that everybody’s already said which is that never went to Pastor Hagee’s church. He accepted his endorsement. He represents a lot of people in this country, particularly Christians who care about the state of Israel. He founded a group called Christians United for Israel.
Will Chris Wallace finally talk about Hagee too?
And what about the Catholic League's own Bill Donohue, who sold out all Catholics on this one?
And what will the religious right say about John McCain now? Since he just refuted one of their own. I can see them attack him for not standing up for Hagee...Watch what happens next.....Full CNN transcript below the fold
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with the breaking news this hour.
John McCain's sudden change of heart about the endorsement of a popular but very controversial televangelist. That would be Pastor John Hagee.
Let's go straight to our Brian Todd. He's been working on this story. He's got some news to break right here.
What do we know, Brian?
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Wolf, as a result of our inquiries today John McCain makes a dramatic turn around and rejects the endorsement of a key religious leader in the United States. He is Pastor John Hagee, a popular televangelist from San Antonio.
Hagee endorsed McCain in February. Since that time, Hagee has been under fire for comments that he had made earlier about the Catholic Church, very incendiary comments.
He has since apologized for those comments. During that period, McCain distanced himself from those remarks, but did not reject Hagee's endorsement. McCain now, today, makes a dramatic turnaround and it's because of our inquiries about remarks that Pastor Hagee made many years in sermons in which -- one in particular in which he talked about Jews and the Holocaust and what he believed was God's plan to bring the Jews back to Israel.
Here is an audio excerpt from that sermon.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
PASTOR JOHN HAGEE, TELEVANGELIST: God says in Jeremiah 16, "Behold, I will bring them the Jewish people again unto their land that I gave unto their fathers. "Behold, I will send for many fishers and after will I send for many hunters. And they, the hunters, shall hunt them." That would be the Jews. Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone who comes with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
TODD: We have been in contact with Minister Hagee -- with Pastor Hagee and his representatives. Mr. Hagee would not go on camera with us or do any kind of an interview with us.
His representatives say, however, that he was badlynmischaracterized. Hagee did issue a statement saying that he was mischaracterized in blog reports about that sermon and that he in no way condones what happened in the Holocaust, in no way condones Adolf Hitler. He said to imply otherwise is basically a whole lot of lies, and said that he was really only trying to explain to his parish how God could let something that terrible happen.
It's not enough to appease John McCain at this point, who now is completely rejecting his endorsement. Here is a statement that we just got a short time ago from John McCain.
"Obviously, I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible, and I repudiate them. I did not know of them before Revered Hagee's endorsement, and I feel I must reject his endorsement as well."
Pretty big news from John McCain who had counted on Pastor Hagee to enhance his conservative credentials. Very important note here from McCain's campaign who says that Reverend Hagee was never John McCain's pastor, that McCain did not have the kind of relationship with Pastor Hagee that Barack Obama had with Jeremiah Wright. And that -- again, he is completely rejecting this endorsement outright, Wolf.
So pretty significant news --
BLITZER: Very significant because earlier, he repudiated some of the remarks that Pastor Hagee made, but he never repudiated the endorsement. And we have that -- we've been showing our viewers the picture of that actual endorsement. But now he's going one step further, a very significant step and saying, you know what, I don't even want your endorsement, despite the support you might bring me in the evangelical community.
TODD: That's right. John McCain in those months since the February endorsement has been outright saying look, I reject his remarks on Catholicism. Pastor Hagee had called the Catholic religion the great whore, among other things. And McCain had said this is ridiculous I reject it, it is not representative of what I believe. He says the same thing now about his remarks about Jews and the Holocaust. But now, again, a very, very significant step for John McCain to say, essentially, I am pushing this endorsement away, as far away as I possibly can.
BLITZER: And the irony in all of this is the original endorsement that Pastor Hagee gave John McCain -- John McCain sited Pastor Hagee's longtime support of Israel and sating that because of that, in part, he would welcome that endorsement. And now this statement comes to light that raises questions.
TODD: It does raise questions. Now again, Pastor Hagee -- and it's a very important point you just made Wolf -- Pastor Hagee, for many years, is seen as a very ardent and clear supporter of Israel . He's done a lot of work to support Israel, to espouse their views on everything, and has been unabashed in that. And says that this continues and he is really -- he wants to reiterate that to everybody who will listen.
I guess what John McCain feels at this point is that theses remarks that he made in this sermon, which is from the 1990s, which Hagee did not apologize for, but said was mischaracterized, maybe just too much for his campaign to bear.
BLITZER: Brian Todd doing some excellent reporting for us, breaking this story here in THE SITUATION ROOM.
Brian, thanks very much.
<correction: I changed the title to Hitler quoting instead of Hitler lover>
Crazy White Preacher!
And, will the rightwing never let McCain forget it, as they continue to do after Obama finally repudiated Wright?
Do pigs fly?
I think calling Hagee a "Hitler lover" is a bit much. Crazy. Hell, batshit crazy, homophobic, ridiculously uninformed and bigoted, and largely anti-semitic in the Zionist fashion. But it is hard to suggest that he is "loves" Hitler.
"I did not know of them before Revered Hagee’s endorsement"
does mcsame have bill kristol vetting the folks endorsing him?
For the better part of 18 years I attended fundie churches with my ex-wife and hagees comments are not too out of line with their beliefs. I had many a moment of disbelief when I was told that Catholics were condemned to hell, that the Pope was right up their with the devil and that Mother Teresa would burn in hell, no matter what good works she did.
If you are a robertson, hagee, swaggart fundie then this talk is not that abnormal. hagee was preaching to the choir.
He SOUGHT OUT his endorsement! It didn't land on his back like a disease-ridden tick!
In your face McCain... now maybe we can focus on the non-tabloid issues.
I am under the impression that McCain sought the endorsement of this man.If so,doesn't this make all of this even more reprehensible?If Mr.McCain can't do some simple background work on those whose support he seeks,then his qualifications and judgement should be brought into question.
streak @ 3:
To state that Christians of the Hagee sort love anyone is a bit much. To them, anything living is merely a tool to bring Armageddon, to be used or abused as they see fit. Hagee probably likes Hitler for doing something he wishes he could. Christianity's biggest dark side is its anti-Semitism, after all...
With all of McCain's "changes of heart," he'll be another completely new candidate come November!
Bless his lil' OL' heart...
My friends, there will be more endorsements...
Apparently McCain needs to be constantly reminded that he shouldn't forget that convenient lapses of memory and judgement are not things which are endearing qualities for someone who aspires to higher leadership.
God Damned American fucking hypocrites. Double standards alive and well in the good old US of A.
Left&Left @ 13:
Yes, Americans have always been big on hypocrisy. Why do you think Andrew Jackson was so hot and bothered about Democracy and ignored the slaves, Indians, and women?
"Hitler lover"? Are you even pretending to have credibility? Or is gross inaccuracy for the sake of support deemed okay in your mind because people on the other side of the political spectrum also do it? Seems like a rather flawed philosophy.
McInsane is becoming a parody of himself.
It's disgusting how biased the media are against the Nazis.
GABA @ 15:
Agreed. Every day this site becomes more and more like Perez Hilton than any sort of credible news source.
McCain should have looked into Hagee with more discretion, but I am happy that McCain renounced his endorsement
That flip flop confirms that Obama is NOT the ONLY one with a Pastor problem, but will BILLARY Clinton's "hard working Whites" see the light?!
GABA @ 15:
Having made a similar point in another thread, I call bullshit on this one. It's not such a gross inaccuracy to say you love Hitler when Hitler was the will of God. To a Fundie, anything God does is good. Hence, Hitler was good, because God let Hitler into power and God sanctions authority, and Hitler was a Christian anyways.
That above is the average reasoning power of the Southern Fundie (minus the Hitler was a Christian part, for some reason they think he was atheist).
Chuck Todd was on Hardball tonight and he came to the same conclusion I did the other day. McCain's campaign was desperately searching for a right wing preacher to endorse McCain so McCain would appeal to the right wingers, and they didn't bother to vet this guy or anything because they were so eager to get his blessings. In other words they didn't know what the hell they were doing.
This is one of the zillion reasons there has to be a separation of church and state. Forget the candidate's faith and instead focus on their judgment and their approach to the problems our nation faces.
Obama is down in Boca Raton trying to convince the Jewish community that he is not a Muslim. The first person to ask a question said to Obama, If your first name was Barry I could vote for you but the name Barack bothers me. That's the sort of mentality that we have to deal with in the US right now.
Channel surfing, I see McCain on Ellen DeGeneres. Wonder how that sits with the pious conservative base?
Today on reslug talking points, obnoxious preachers are BAD! No wait... they're GOOD! No wait.... yeah.. bad.. definitely bad. No wait! They're good!
Ok let's move on...
Appeasement is BAD... no wait... it's GOOD. No wait...
That elephant is taking a long time to die. Someone fetch my gun.
NoBuddy @ 23:
It's ok, when she dared to raise the topic of same sex marriage he gave her the standard polite reslug "fuck you".
General_Rennenkampf @ 20:
I'm sorry but your post was far too full of gross generalizations and misconceptions about religion in general that I simply could not read past the first three sentences. I won't bother to start a theological debate here, but suffice it to say, you might not be hurt by taking a few courses in logic.
My point simply was that making a historical comparison to a text that is intimately familiar to your audience doesn't mean that you are somehow in love with the character of that reference.
17 JasonS Says: It’s disgusting how biased the media are against the Nazis.
Quote This Comment May 22nd, 2008 at 2:17 PM - PDT
-------------------
Excellent Snark Jason.
Let's face it. McCain is reading from a script just handed to him. I have a feeling that there are many Republicans out there having buyer's remorse about McCain. And there just aren't enough handlers out there to handle this guy. If this is a sign of things to come, then let's roll.
Even if Democrats don't win the Presidency, I see substantial gains in both houses of Congress with Obama at the top of the ticket.
The reich-winger MSM claimed Obama only distanced himself from Wright because of "political purposes". I wonder what they’ll call McBush's move?
McBush was for the radical America damning Catholic hating Hitler loving white supremest preacher before he was against him.
Flip Flop Express, next stop, Backpeddle Junction!
What I wanna know is why Lieberman pimps for this "rapture" dude whose love of Israel is based solely on his conviction that the Jews will be annhilated, except for 144,000 who will convert, and then Jesus will return. I mean. Come on, Joe. It's one thing to defend Israel's survival, it's another thing to pimp for a guy who actually wants it destroyed! Well, at least Lieberman voted YES on the New GI Bill....unlike McCain, who wasn't even there to vote! Come on, VFW/American Legion GOP pimps. Can we hear from you?
Does McSame check which way the wind is blowing each day before he makes these flip flops or does he just go like a bull in a china closet full bore?
Will MSNBC run a one hour special titled "McCain and Hypocrisy"?
What about him giving a speech at Falwell's university with everything Falwell had said? Will the MSM run a three week loop of McCain calling these extreme religious figures "agents of intolerance" and then outline how he went out of his way to get their endorsements when he started running for President just to build up his "street cred"????
Maverick my ass! McCain is the world's biggest hypocrite. If you're a Hillary supporter who intends to boycott Obama, then fine, but please vote for the Green Party guy because I couldn't even hold my nose to vote for McCain.
Sorry, church cred
GABA @ 26:
That's a very good point. The point they raised was a bit distorted, yes. However, to a Fundamentalist, nothing, not even an amoeba eating a paramecium can happen without God's explicit approval. Hence, my own rather snarkcastic statement. I kid you not when I state people think God is that deeply involved in world affairs.
Some reporter on CNN seemed to thing this rejection by McCain would hurt him with the religious right. He was talking about how popular Hagee is with a whole lot of right wing christians. So maybe this was a catch 22 that McCain's campaign had gotten him into. Damned by sane people if he didn't reject Hagee and damned by fundies if he did.
17 JasonS Says: It’s disgusting how biased the media are against the Nazis.
Your forgot to add "and for the Fascists."
You are either a liar or have never listened to Hagee more then once or twice.
Although I do not always agree with Hagee, He has never supported Hitler or what he stood for, not ever. Pastor Hagee is a very strong supporter of Jews and Isreal.
Maybe too much so, as I believe in America first and then friendly nations second and enemies of the USA last.
This is why I could never vote for Barack Hussein Obama.
America's dependency on foreign oil is over! Hook a generator up to that perpetual flip flop machine known as John McCain!!!
So, are we to infer from this that John McCain is opposed to the formation of the state of Israel?
Denny Ferguson @ 38:
Huh? Because Hagee supports Jews and Israel (I might add for very strange reasons) you could never vote for Barack Hussein Obama. Need more info, please.
Denny Ferguson @ 38:
Why would a Christian support a nation that persecutes our brethren and is expelling them from our faith's origin? Israel is doing just as much damage to Christians as their Muslim counterparts do. A true Christian would not support Israel.
Denny Ferguson @ 38:
You are either obtuse or in complete denial or you have never listened to Hagee claim Hitler killing Jews was fulfilling God's Will.
Try again....
General_Rennenkampf @ 35:
Well, you're certainly correct that there are people out there with those and even crazier beliefs, but there is simply no way to gain a following of over 19,000 people (as I just heard them say on CNN that Hagee has) without being a very smart individual. Smart individuals are not the ones who buy into the strict Fundie views and beliefs you speak of. Smart individuals are also able to comprehend the consequences of doing/saying anything publically that could reasonably be construed as showing support for Hitler, and the actual content of Hagee quotes that this C&L post is referencing only support this idea as well as the idea that this post title has either devious intentions or a rather big dose of ignorance. The deliberate ignorance becomes even more obvious when you go back and read the posts here blasting those who took Rev. Wright's comments out of context much like this.
Poor McCain wasn't Abel to figure out that he was offended by the remarks of Hagee in the year + that poor McCrazy was actively seeking Hageehitler's endorsement.
Poor McDepends, he changes his position so often he's spinning like a dradle.
What's great about this (thanks not to the traditional media but the blogs) is that the GOPers want be able to get by with this shit anymore. We will dig until we find shit on them and throw the same shit back in their faces and hammer and hammer away with it until the MSM either picks it up and gives it equal coverage, or more and more people like myself will continue to tune them out.
Long life the progressive blogs! Offer true balance to "fair and balanced" corporate media!
Denny Ferguson @ 38:
You have obviously not paid enough attention to Hagee, or you didn't understand what was being said while you were listening. Or maybe you're the liar, who knows with wingnuts.
Denny Ferguson @ 38:
Hagee is a Christo-fascist. And so are you if you support him.
GABA @ 44:
What's so out of context about this?
"Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew who at the turn of the 19th century said, this land is our land, God wants us to live there. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said 'I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel.' So few went that Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the holocaust.
"Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says -- Jeremiah writing -- 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
GABA @ 44:
I certainly agree that the leaders of these groups are smarter than the rank-and-file, but that's how the Far Right works in general. And in a Cold War-era category of extremism (back when there actually was a left-extremist movement), the Christian Right was an extremist movement. How did it move to kingmaker among the GOP? 0.o
Dr. (Bitter Hussein) Matt @ 43:
I don't quite know about that. I don't quite think it'd be very accurate to label Hagee as a "murderous-flood lover" if he made the (correct) claim that it was God's Will that the great flood that Noah built his ark for kill off the entire world population.
Somehow I don't believe your logic skills are THAT bad. My only advice is to not let anger and hatred for the other political side to blind your rational thought.
And he offered appeasement to the homosekshall agenda by going on Ellen Degeneres and not condemn her.
What a fucking liar mccain is.
First he had to know because he seek him out.
Second hagee isn't in the same class as Rev. Wright.
Dr. (Bitter Hussein) Matt @ 49:
Spot on, if that's sarcasm. *losing faith in humanity* if it isn't.
"Hitler was a Hunter" =/= "I love Hitler"
Weird people these days.
Ninth Ward @ 39 says:
"America’s dependency on foreign oil is over! Hook a generator up to that perpetual flip flop machine known as John McCain!!!"
Great idea but I fear he may only have a few more months of power left in him.
To me it seems very strange that he would repudiate Hagee. He'd already received a complete pass by the MSM on this issue. Why go all ethical now? There must surely be some explosive Hagee material (worse even than we've seen so far) that hasn't made the net for MCCain to reject Hagee's endorsement. I wonder what it might be?
GABA @ 51:
The other political side often doesn't bother, their whole premise is based around faith. When dealing with a faith-based political system, logic and reason shrivel up in application to it. Fight fire with fire.
Oh man, these comments are beginning to sound like a bible study class. I'm outta here to have a cocktail. Don't save me a seat in the pew.
McCain flipflop ad:
World's no. 1 FlipFlopper
Guess the heat in the kitchen on this Hagee shit finally got hot enough to make the old fart uncomfortable... Doesn't really matter, it's all a dog and pony show...
Fact is, all this religous tripe aside, McCain ain't fit nor deserving of the office of President of the United States for much better reasoning then what rightwing freakshow preacher he's tryin to climb into bed with. And it really doesn't take a lot of searching and poking around to find those reasons either....JD
I had no idea someone could take something that teaches tolerance and compassion (the Bible) and turn it into a tool to spread hatred and fear. What does that remind me of.....? hummm
Anyway, I guess the only sound conclusion one can arrive at is that Christianity is a cult that preaches hatred and that Jesus himself was a terrorist. These radical Christians are taking over out country [/snark].
This is a non-issue, just like the Wright stuff was a non-issue. Lets deal with the candidates themselves and not their pastors, nannies, passing acquaintances, bus drivers.
Oh, and having someone say that Hitler was doing God's work by forcing the world to allow the Jews to resettle the area does NOT mean that he approved of the genocide. I hate the guy, but lets leave taking shit out of context to be a republican attribute.
GABA @ 54:
The quote itself does not imply he loved Hitler. I can state Andrew Jackson's ethnic cleansing of Georgia was only following a historical trend and the climate of the time, and so it benefited Americans, but that doesn't mean I love Jackson. Yet, to state that Hitler's actions led to Israel, and state that God approved of such actions is offensive bordering on fascist.
He may not love Hitler, but he clearly approves of his actions.
Does anyone know how many missions McCain flew before bing shot down or what the circumstances were that brought him down?
General_Rennenkampf @ 57:
Again, it would be to your intellectual advantage to try and stay away from making such sweeping generalizations. It's terribly inaccurate to assert that entire Republican Party or the entire Right-wing are blinded by religion. There are many athiest Republicans and Rightwingers. And their whole premise is based around how best they see to take this country in the future. If some of them believe that method involves religion, you are free to disagree with them (as I do), but it's still inaccurate and grossly ignorant to state that the entire republican platform is based around religion.
the flounder will flop
Father Tyme @ 64:
McCain was doing God's work when he dropped bombs on innocent people in Vietnam [/snark]
Religion poisons everything
Interesting thing about Hagee. He doesn't give a damn about the Jews or Israel per se. His whole point in supporting Israel is to bring about Armageddon so all these Jews can be killed and bring about the second coming. Israel needs that kind of support like a whole in their collective heads.
Here's an idea, let's just end all religious thought and become rational human beings. I think it's time to give up Santa Claus and the easter Bunny as well. Let's grow up, people.
General_Rennenkampf @ 63:
I disagree.
Hagee's bit about abortions and aspirin at school was an outright lie. Period. There is no way to spin it. Ministers of the Gospel are not commissioned to lie like politicians in the name of Jesus. According to Christian doctrine, Satan is the father of lies. There is simply no way of associating this fat little rat bastard or any other fundamentalist demoniac in any context with the ministry of Jesus and never has been.
Pisses me off that Brian Todd says several times that because of their inquiries the rejection was issued. The blogs have been flogging this story to the MSM for weeks now. Lazy, cowardly bastards.
GABA @ 65:
If I seemed to be referring to the entire Republican Party, I apologize. I was only referring to the Religious Right and their intellectual cohorts. I did seem to be referring to all Republicans, so I do apologize. The type of Republican Hagee would reach believes that the regathering of Israel is a fulfillment of some Biblical mumbo-jumbo and has started the ball rolling on the End Times. To those Republicans, Hitler, as the inaugurator of the End Times, is good indeed.
Not to all of them, though. The Neo-Cons, as Jewish conservatives would blatantly disagree.
McCain is actually offering more entertainment value then anything else at this point.
This is too damn funny. All of that right wing focus on Obama regarding his pastor can now be shared by the GOP opponent. For some reason, it reminds me of Hannity, running for his life as crazed Ron Paul supporters chased him down a dark street. Maybe its Karma.
And why in the world are there people in here defending Hagee? Look, if you don't want to realize he is just another crazy preacher, fine, but good luck trying to change that view in those of us with more than half a brain. The only reason Hagee supports Israel is that he is trying to hasten the "End Times" prophecies. If you think that is a good thing, well, that's what happens when you only have half of a brain.
If Lieberman loves Israel so much why doesn't he just fuck off and go live there ? .... let him fight Israels enemies instead of sending young men and women from the US to fight all of Israels enemies.
I heard a report on fox earlier which said "Israel is putting pressure on the US to do something about Iran", erm, since when did washington take orders from Tel Aviv ?
General_Rennenkampf @ 73:
Ah yes, then yes I agree with you there.
I suppose my disgust for the gross hypocrisy/maliciousness of whomever writes these C&L post titles kinda carried over to my over convos going on here, so I also apologize.
In other news Barracks "Big Test" is today also.
May 22 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama today will try to assuage Jewish voters who are concerned about his support for Israel, some of his foreign-policy advisers, his association with a former pastor and even his middle name.
``This issue is not one that gets explained away by a speech,'' said David Naftaly, an activist from Maryland who serves on the executive board of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, a Washington-based pro-Israel lobby.
Forget Hagee, what about Parsley??
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/play...php?cl=7929995
L.A. Confidential @ 79:
Supers will be jumping overboard if Barrack fails this one.
Can't say this will turn out good for McCain... he sought that endorsement to gain support from the evangelical right. Now that he has dropped Hagee he'll probably lose a lot of the support (money) that he sought. As for the votes, many may choose not to vote at all rather than back a democrat.
One point to clarify - Hagee isn't a fundamentalist. He is an evangelical and yes there is a difference. He is also crazier than a shithouse rat but that is just my opinion. I agree with Patricia on separation of church and state. We've been blurring that line for decades and the consequences are only just beginning to hit home. I would like to see candidates talk about issues and how they would handle their job, not about how their religion (or the religion they say they have for the sake of a group of voters) would affect policy. It should not.
"Here's an idea, let's just end all religious thought and become rational human beings. I think it's time to give up Santa Claus and the easter Bunny as well. Let's grow up, people.": It is possible to be a religious person, not give up rational thought and not believe in christmas or easter. And you can do all of this without blindly following an insane bigot and his twisted interpretation of scripture. It is possible for an individual to be a person of faith and live a life of quiet example the way Christians are supposed to. But that takes a degree of intelligence which unfortunately most who join the flocks of charismatic evangelicals do not possess. And to make matters worse, they live through their words more than their actions.
Rev. Wright may be something of an albatross around Obama's neck, but McCain's got two of 'em -- Rev. John Hagee and Rev. Rod Parsley. So why aren't McCain's ties with Hagee and Parsley getting as much scrutiny from the media as Obama's ties to Wright are?
Oh, that's right...how could I possibly have forgotten? Silly me...the answer is simple.
McCain's white and Republican.
just heard on my XM radio, "potus 08 update", that hagee has "withdrawn his endorsement", after hearing that mcSAME refutes him...
so there!
I see that the title of the post has been changed, but it seems merely to have gone from maliciously ignorant to just plain ignorant. Nowhere have I ever seen Hagee quote Hitler. I simply don't understand some of the assertions being made here; saying that God willed Hitler's actions is NOT quoting Hitler. It's just bordering on bizarre now.
Bluestocking @ 83:
Just like all the Rich White Guy Republicans that own just about all the major media in this country anymore.
Go Figure!!!
Do you seek somebody's endorsement when you don't know whay he stands for and believes? He has published these ideas in books.
Emma Hussein Goldman @ 87:
It's all about the money. People sell out everyday. The cash doesn't have to be returned.
I just love the way the GOP suddenly gets to repudiate all those things they formerly embraced, like now we're supposed to forget all about it.
GABA @ 85:
The problem is the misuse of the phrase "God's will". It is technically impossible to know what God's will is in most situations since humans have the gift of free will which can flip the outcome of a situation to something other than God's will. Case in point - when the children of Israel built that golden calf while Moses was off having a conversation with God. Somehow I don't think that is what God intended his chosen people to do.
MSM is really good at misinterpreting this and politicians who are playing at being Christian are even better.
Soma @ 18:
Yet, you seem to come back every day.... what does that say about you?? NO need for credible news sources?? I am glad, however, that you recognize a flawed philosophy when you see one. Now, why not count up all the ones you can find and report back to us.
Emma Hussein Goldman @ 87:
And just in case McCain doesn't read, Hagee is on tv once or twice weekly.
Gretchen @ 90:
Yes. The idea of "God's Will" is merely a roundabout way of placing a positive spin on everything for those who believe in Him, to avoid the existential fear innate in every human. Hagee of course has no way of knowing what 'God's Will' is, however because his followers believe less in free will than in God's Will, it's just a way of saying 'It's okay, you're in good hands no matter what'. It has nothing to do with the actual events on earth (as I assume that Hagee would still declare Hitler's actions as God's Will even if they did not lead to Israel).
via ThinkProgress:
*** UPDATE II *** And here's a statement from Hagee withdrawing his endorsement: "Ever since I endorsed John McCain for president, people seeking to attack Sen. McCain have combed my records for statements they can use for political gain. They have had no qualms about grossly misrepresenting my position on issues most near and dear to my heart if it serves their political ambitions. I am tired of these baseless attacks and fear that they have become a distraction in what should be a national debate about important issues. I have therefore decided to withdraw my endorsement of Senator McCain for President effective today, and to remove myself from any active role in the 2008 campaign."
More: "I hope that the Senator McCain will accept this withdrawal so that he may focus on the issues that are most important to America and the world."
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/22/1053828.aspx
I've also been searching for an instance of Hagee actually quoting Hitler, and have come up dry. Shocking.
mccain is melting down in may.....beautiful....
i thought nobody would ever top bush's ineptitude, dishonesty and incompetence....but mccain is giving it a go....
ohio progressive @ 95:
The cons don't even care anymore. They'll just hit a few buttons in Nov, step in out of the wings and continue where Bush leaves off.
Reading these posts, I stand by my belief that there are 3 kinds of Republicans:
The Rich.
Damn fools who are conned into voting Repug against their best interests by the rich controlled media.
The religiously insane, many of whom also qualify as fools.
Any idiot who supports or defends the idea that Hitler was "doing God's will" is beyond redemption. That means the liar John McCain, who certainly was familiar with Hagee's ridiculous hate mongering- whatever his claims to the contrary.
Now Hagee will curse McOhShit to Hell...because that's the kind of loveable teddy bear Hagee is.
...oh my god, i slightly defended McAsparagus
GABA @ 92:
Warning - theological discussion below
Exactly. Christians are supposed to do God's will and not their own. It can be very difficult to know the difference between God's will and your own, and humans by nature are lazy. Therefore, it is easier to call everything "God's will" and deny the "free will" in your nature. Which is why so many Christians find it easier to join mega-churches and follow charismatic evangelical leaders. Rather than figure this issue out for themselves, they would rather listen to these clowns and give a resounding "Amen"! Easy, no thought involved and if Hagee or Falwell says you are right with God then you are.
And Hagee disses on the Catholics when he is like a little pope with his own flock? Give me a break!
@ GABA:
If you're going to claim that everything is "God's Will," then you're effectively saying "It's all good," because God doesn't do anything that isn't good. So, if you're saying that the Holocaust was "God's Will," you're basically saying that, overall, it was a good thing. And that's typical Christofascist logic: we mortals simply don't understand the inherent goodness of God's mysterious actions.
Anyone who believes such nonsense would be willing to blindly accept anything.
Okay. Now what about Rod Parsley?
rekroc @ 100:
Which is exactly like they follow the likes of Hagee and probably voted for Bush twice. They've taken the easy way out.
So McSame may have lost the fundie voter base. Oh, that's sad. [snark]
Olbermann is reporting on Parsley's awful quotes. Go Olbermann!!!!
pete @ 45:
Poor Obama couldn't figure out that he was offended by the remarks of Wright in the 20 years that poor Barack "57 States" Obama was activily listening to Wrights sermons and made him an active member of his campaign.
LoL Godsmen on the run, this is a good thing they have no business in politics. 2 for 2 they have to be rejected. Can we try one nation indivisible again?
Just to keep track: McSame may lose the Jewish vote, the Hispanic vote, the Catholic vote, the American Muslim vote, the fundie vote, the gay and lesbian vote.... Not to mention McSame is offering the GOP another 4 years of Bush, and many Republicans have jumped ship. Did I leave anyone out?
Hagee is tying himself into logical knots with his lies about his own statements. First he describes Hitler's Holocaust as part of God's plan for Jews, and now he's saying he never said that.
What's it gonna be, Hagee? Are you calling God's plan for the Jews a fiction, a flawed plan, or denying that you said anything about it?
And then there's Brian Todd of CNN. Was it really "a result of [your] inquiries" or was it a late reaction to many thousands of people seeing Hagee's YouTube videos? I think the latter, as it is now with Parsley, not to mention all those juicy lobbyists surrounding McCain's campaign.
We shall all patiently await your acknowledgment of the rottenness everybody knows about except CNN and the MSM. Good luck with your "inquiries."
Won't know until after the meeting.
http://www.docudharma.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6842
Leslie [Hussein] @ 107:
Conservatives won't vote for a "liberal" Mccain. Independents won't vote for a total right wing republican shill.
See yesterday's post on the two faces of John Insane.
I find it interesting that the newsman gets complimented on his 'good' reporting, when all he did was state what was going around the internet for some time now.
Big media must HATE the internet. When some fact comes up it gets distributed around the world before they can put a stop to it.
McSame is getting screwed. Thank goodness. You can see his act of desperation when the newscaster said that 'he did not have the same relationship with Hagee, that Obama had with Rev. Wright.
Wright wasn't glorifying Hitler, or saying that it was 'god's will' to kill Jewish people'.
Hagee is an insane hate-monger. He's bleeding mentally weak people dry of their money and trying to encourage a theocracy. In his tiny, diseased mind, if you aren't with him, god will punish you.
McCain can toss Haggee...he's served his purpose.
And the same with Parsley.
He kissed these freaks big white asses in order to eliminate Huckabee and now that he's the candidate...see ya later.
McCain will blow anybody, to get to the top.
Thank you Keith Olbermann for pushing McInsane to do this...well done.
McCain needs to choose Pat Robertson as his V.P., that will help things smooth over with Hagee, too.
Are we all supposed to feel better about McCain accepting this man's endorsement in the first place because he really didn't know just what Hagee stood for? Then he defended him for months, apparently not checking any deeper into this guy's beliefs?
Politics is such a dirty game; yet, I can't imagine why any politician would feel he or she needs the endorsement of some charlatan, hate-monger like this guy. What purpose could it serve? And isn't this exactly why there should be true separation of Church and State.
Politicians once attended the church of their choice, or like Reagan, seldom attended at all. It was no big deal to most voters. Candidates said they loved God and the country when they ran and that was about it. Now, we have to know every nuance of their religious beliefs and they must garner endorsements from all sorts of "religious" leaders such as this fat fool. Is the country any better for it? Do voters really need all this phony religious overlay in the campaigns.
My own theory is that most politicians, like a lot of Americans if the polls are to be believed, aren't all that religious anymore. Wouldn't this be a good time to just go back to practicing religion in private and keeping religious leaders in their churches and out of National politics?
God told Hitler to kill the Jews?
Maybe religion is the root of all evil.
Just to be clear -- Joe Lieberman didn't just support John McCain for accepting Hagee's endorsement. Joe Lieberman was a speaker at the CUFI conference and praised Hagee:
"He is a Ish Elokim, a man of God and those words really fit him...like Moses he's become a leader of a mighty multitude, even greater than the multitude that Moses led from Egypt to the promised land."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjMRgT5o-Ig
(Lieberman speaks at roughly 05:30 into the video)
What about Reverend Parsley....who also endorsed McCain.....and he IS McCain's spiritual adviser.....and there is video of him screaming that America was founded to destroy Islam....HMMMMMM!
You think that 1 billion Muslims will react kindly to the United States electing a guy who has a spiritual adviser who believes that Islam should be destroyed and is for a 100+ year occupation of Iraq?
Regardless of all the accusations going on with this bullshit story.....the facts are;
This Hagee guy has a very large following, which means, there are a lot of people who are not convinced, the jewish world is globally accepted.
Secondly, if the holocaust is still being bantered around to remind the rest of the world of the autrocities, then does it not make sense that the Arab world (specifically Iraqis) will never forget the autrocities that came from the invasion of their country?
This to me is a reality and scary. The USA is in for a whole heapin' of hate....for a few generations of Iraqis that hear the stories.
What Georgie has done to you guys will be heard 20-30 down the road?
Trash Catholics - no problem; trash gays - little sweat; trash every group conservative X-tians love to hate, hurray! .... but whatever you do - don't f#$% with Israel! That is completely unacceptable.
McCain wants it both ways, what a flip flopper...
GABA @ 15:
Hagee would probably be a white supremist Nazi in another place in time. He just can't right out and say it today.
recommended reading/viewing by max blumenthal, an authority on hagee: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/my-interview-with-pastor_b_...
the "denouncement" of hagee by mccain is nothing more than window dressing.
also watch: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03072008/watch.html
The reason I didn't bother to vote in 2000 in my very first Presidential election was because I had an absolute distaste for Joe Lieberman. At the time, the main issue that stuck out to me was his (and at the time, some other Democrats as well) position on violence in video games and its effects on kids. I grew up with violent games and neither myself or my brothers have been violent.... but I digress.
The very notion that Wright is worse than Hagee (and mind you, Wright has some problems) is just crazy.
here's more from bill moyers and max blumenthal, an authority on hagee: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/max-blumenthal/my-interview-with-pastor_b_...
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03072008/watch.html
definitely worth the time -- hagee is tied tightly to certain halls of US government -- this "denouncement" is nothing more than window dressing for the media.
You know, I'm a strong supporter of Obama and I was raised a Jew, but I don't think that McCain rejecting Hagee's endorsement is such a bad thing, even after having previously accepting it. Go ahead and paint McCain as a flip flopper now, but it was a brilliant political tactical move on his part to renege on accepting Hagee's endorsement! Besides, don't we want a president who's not afraid to be receptive of public opinion and to change with it at least a bit? I mean, is it not true that part of the problem with Bush was that he was a stubborn, country dumb fuck who wouldn't ever back down on anything, no matter what new facts came to light?
Hagee, and the rest of the evangelical-holier-than-thou people who subscribe to his type of backwards reasoning are the people we really need to focus on in this country. We should stop berating them for being totally ignorant and start "edumacating" them because that's the only way that things are going to change for all of us! We're not even discussing THAT right now!
Jesus christ. The more I watch our real politics, the more fond I grow of Battlestar Galactica. That show just gets so much right, and it's commentary on our human predicaments and nature continues to awe me. Seriously, if anyone reading this hasn't seen this show, trust me on this and watch the first mini series and few episodes. An hour in and your hooked.
You'll have to excuse me, I'm not an American so the election means less to me than it does to many of you. I am getting a bit confused about all the talking points being tossed around these days. I'll sum up what I have learned to date, hopefully someone can tell me where my analysis went wrong.
1. McCain committed the holocaust, invaded the Soviet Union and occupied Eastern Europe for 50 years.
2. Barack Obama, or someone related to him caused 9/11
3. It is not longer acceptable to understand that all politicians pander during election time. Attempts to reach out to a wider base is now grounds for having your leadership and policies blasted (although I have yet to hear CNN discuss a single policy)
4. McCain is now officially too old to have ever done anything good for America. All of his past initiatives are negated, forgotten or misconstrued.
5. Same as above, but use Barack Obama instead, and replace old with inexperienced.
6. Hillary Clinton has no support, and has never done anything good. In fact, despite the fact that she appears to have won the major states in the democratic primary, she has failed to win "middle america". Every second she stays in the election hurts democracy and supports China/radical islam/anarchy. But good for her for making it this far, cause she's just a girl.
7. Popularity is based upon media perception alone- if your mind cannot be changed by Anderson Cooper, it is not valid.
8. If someone endorses you, they will be involved in all policy decisions once you are elected.
9. Its not about who raises or has the most cash.....no wait, now it is. (Subject to change)
10. Democratic candidates who are not hawkish represent hope/change....and not the common leaning of democratic candidates towards some degree of military isolationism.
11. If someone has a different view than you, no part of their argument can be valid or of interest. They are completely wrong and likely kill children and puppies.
12. Now people are worried about who is disenfranchised in America.
13. Voting against someone because of their race is blatant racism.
14. Voting for someone because they are of the same race as yourself is "a demographic"
15. Throwing around words like racism and sexism is productive. But stating that someone is too old to be effective- that is just common medical sense.
Good luck guys. Will be waiting for you guys to get back to real issues and policies soon. The world is changing rapidly, and not just the middle east. We are all better if America critically engages with all other nations, not against.
rekroc @ 101:
Wrong. Claiming that something is God's Will, especially something bad such as the Holocaust, is nothing like saying that it's a good thing to happen. Believing that shows little understanding for the whole logic of the Bible. He's not saying anything like "Hey look, God controls everything, and he made a bunch of Jews die so he must hate Jews", or anything rediculous that fanatical blogs like C&L can assert and then sleep at night, but rather something more akin to "Hey look, something terrible happened but something good also came out of it, because God was there to ensure that it would."
Since 2000, McCain is the "Great Whore".
Don @ 31:
holy joe, like many of my fellow brethren, is deluded in believing that it doesnt matter why someone supports jewish causes or the state of israel...its enough that they do
as we believe the whole rapture and armageddon stuff is total fantasy, many believe as long as they aint spewing anti semitic rhetoric and are sending monies to israel, we jews should not only accept it, but be welcoming of it
im amazed that they dont understand how dangerous these people are
as for mcliar now renouncing these endorsements, why has the msm not pointed out that these pastors statements are not new...that these are the same things they have said for years
it is obvious that mcahole wants to use wright against obama and is cutting these guys lose in order to do so
will it hurt him with the evangelical crowd? we will see
but i think he has taken a look at the polls, which say that none of those loving christians will ever vote for a black man, and he will take their votes for granted
McOld will skate on this one. As with Dubya the media wait till the week before the election to scrutinize him and they'll then attack themselves for playing dirty tricks on the poor fella. It's a self-loathing issue, don't expect them to get help anytime soon.
L.A. Confidential @ 79:
younger jews are supporting obama
its the older ones, who do not have access to or choose not to use the internet that buy into the bs
jews as a voting block are in reality not that important, except for in key states like florida
but i weep at the ignorance of my people
mccain was/is so hard up for an endorsement from the religous right he didn't do any past history on hagee. i don't agree with the right talking point that it's not the same as rev. wright.........who cares...who said it that is an issue. mccain is pandering without thinking. today he didn't support the new veterans bill in the senate...because bush doesn't. it's our turn they had the executive branch(privilege) for close to 8 yrs. this administration is an embarassment.......i want a change from the neocon philosophy.vote obama
texrtw @ 131:
Does Pastor Hagee love Jews as much as you do?
So, I'm just curious. McCain liked Hagee so long as he only insulted Catholics (only 69 million of us). But, when Hagee makes outrageous comment about Hitler and the Jews (6.1 million in the U.S.) McCain says it is over the top. I guess some forms of bigotry are still ok.
GABA@130:
So, which is it? Is God "all good" and "all powerful," or does he allow the most horrific things to happen to his "children" in order to orchestrate his brilliant master plan, and does he punish his disobedient "children" by inflicting endless excruciating pain upon them (simply because they've chosen not to worship an invisible being)--in which case, by any reasonable standard, he'd be the absolute worst parent imaginable?
I suppose, since we are all mere mortals, our tiny pea-brains just weren't meant to comprehend such love and goodness...
It's very simple logic, GABA.
God = All good
God's Will = All good
But, somewhere along the line, you want to twist this logic into a pretzel and claim that:
Hitler/Holocaust (God's Will) = terrible, horrible, ungodly stuff
Sorry, but that just defies all logic.
Mccain YOU ACTIVILY SOUGHT THE ENDORSEMENT OF THIS NAZI LOVING HAGEE EVEN WHEN YOU KNEW WHAT HE SAID ABOUT CATHOLICS,JEWS, AND KATRINA VICTIMS. YOU NEVER INTENDED THAT HIS SADIST PREACHING WOULD SURFACE ON THE INTERNET.NOW YOU SAY THAT HIS STATEMENTS ARE NOW TOO MUCH. NOW YOU MUST ACCEPT THE SINS OF THIS MAN. YOU FORFIET YOUR CHANCE FOR PRESIDENCY. YOU HAVE MY VOTE nomore.
Sorry to inform you all but Hagee was correct in German's untold history--Hitler & company were Zionist.Don't like it?--too bad!
My Gawd is an awesum Gawd.......when it suits me. It's them pesky Pastors that're giving me grief....
Blitzer says that previously McCain repudiated some of the comments made by Hagee, but did not reject his endorsement. When did McCain repudiate Hagee's comments?
"I find these remarks and others deeply offensive and indefensible"
one follow question senator , if i may.... i agree that the pastor's comments that hitler was doing god's work is a statement that most americans would find difficult to defend. at the very least these words are truely offensive to good god fearing people around the world. and it is understandable that these words, spoken some time ago and easily available as they were recorded and rebroadcast would cause you to repudiate the man who spoke them, how do you defend pastor hagee's refering to the catholic church as the great whore. amoung other statements by this pastor, was that statement not enough for your repudiation?
when i see someone ask this of the senator from arizona, i will know that the worm has turned and the media is back on duty.
and to all the catholics, and others offended by hagee's past comments, i would be wondering why many other statements were not enough to bring the senator to his senses.
rekroc @ 101:
Now that is just plain ignorance. First you all are spouting off about free will and then claim that because God allows for something to happen that it must be "All good". That quote by Hagee never even mentioned it was God's will that the Holocaust happened. He said God allowed it to happen. I am sure God's will was for them to go to the land of Israel WITHOUT having to go through the Holocaust.
Here is a story the illustrates God's will.
Now God allowed that man to die, but it wasn't His will for the man to die. see the difference. If not... One is God's Will and the other is God allowing man to have free will.
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