Countdown Special Comment: The Unimportance of Being John McCain
By Nicole Belle Wednesday Jun 11, 2008 9:00pm
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John McCain has said many a stupid thing during this general election campaign. But when he told Matt Lauer on The Today Show that bringing our troops home was just not that important, he crossed a line from stupidity to being unforgivable:
You have attested to: a fairly easy success; an overwhelming victory in a very short period of time; in which we would be welcomed as liberators; which you assured us would not require our troops stay for decades but merely for years; from which we could bring them all home, since you noted many Iraqis resent American military presence; in which all those troops coming home will also stay there, not being injured, for a hundred years; but most will be back by 2013; and the timing of their return, is… not… that… important.
That, Senator McCain, is context.
And that, Senator McCain, is madness.
Full transcripts below the fold
Finally tonight, as promised, a Special Comment on Senator John McCain's conclusion that it's "not too important" when American forces come home from Iraq.
Thoughts, offered more in sorrow, than in anger.
For two full days now, the Senator and his supporters have been outraged at what they see as the subtraction of context from this extraordinary remark.
This is, sadly, the excuse of our time, for everything.
Still. If the Senator claims truncation, we will correct that, first.
"A lot of people," Matt Lauer began, "now say the surge is working."
"Anybody who knows the facts on the ground say that," the Senator interjected.
"If it's now working, Senator," Matt continued, "do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?"
"No," answered McCain. "But that's not too important. What's important is the casualties in Iraq. Americans are in South Korea. Americans are in Japan. American troops are in Germany.
"That's all fine. American casualties and the ability to withdraw. We will be able to withdraw. General Petraeus is going to tell us in July when he thinks we are. But the key to it is we don't want any more Americans in harm's way.
"And that way they will be safe, and serve our country, and come home with honor and victory - not in defeat, which is what Senator Obama's proposal would have done. And I'm proud of them, and they're doing a great job. And we are succeeding. And it's fascinating that Senator Obama still doesn't realize it."
And there is the context of what Senator McCain said.
Well... not quite, Senator.
The full context is that the Iraq you see is a figment of your imagination.
This is not a war about "honor and victory," sir.
This is a war you, and the President you support and seek to succeed, conned this nation into.
Yes, sir.
You.
Of the prospect of war in Iraq, you said, quote,
"I believe that success will be fairly easy."
John McCain... September 24th, 2002.
"I believe that we can win an overwhelming victory in a very short period of time."
John McCain... September 29th, 2002.
Of the ouster of Saddam and the Baathists:
"There's no doubt in my mind that once these people are gone, that we will be welcomed as liberators."
John McCain... March 24th, 2003.
Asked, about a long-term commitment in Iraq, quote, "are you talking about something in terms of South Korea, for instance, where you would expect U.S. troops to be in Iraq for decades?"
"No," you answered. "I don't think decades, but I think years. A little straight talk, I think years. And I hope that we can gradually reduce that presence."
John McCain... March 18th, 2004.
You were asked about the troops, and the future.
"I would hope that we could bring them all home. I would hope that we would probably, leave, some military advisers, as we have in other countries, to help them with their training and equipment and that kind of stuff.
"...I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence. And I don't pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be."
John McCain... January 31st. 2005
When a speaker at your town hall, five months ago, referenced the President's forecast that we might stay in Iraq for 50 years, you cut him off.
"Make it a hundred! We've been in Japan for 60 years. We've been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me. As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That's fine by me..."
John McCain... January 3rd, 2008.
And your forecast of your hypothetical first term.
"By January, 2013, America has welcomed home most of the servicemen and women who have sacrificed terribly so that America might be secure in her freedom. The Iraq war has been won."
John McCain... May 15th, 2008.
That, Senator McCain, is context.
You have attested to: a fairly easy success; an overwhelming victory in a very short period of time; in which we would be welcomed as liberators; which you assured us would not require our troops stay for decades but merely for years; from which we could bring them all home, since you noted many Iraqis resent American military presence; in which all those troops coming home will also stay there, not being injured, for a hundred years; but most will be back by 2013; and the timing of their return, is... not... that... important.
That, Senator McCain, is context.
And that, Senator McCain, is madness.
The Government Accountability Office just released a study Tuesday that concludes that one out of every ten soldiers sent to Iraq, takes with them medical problems "severe enough to significantly limit their ability to fight."
In five years, we have now sent 43,000 of them to war even though they were already wounded.
And when they come home, Is. Not. That. Important.
Jalal al Din al Sagir, a member of the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, and Ali al Adeeb, of the rival Dawa Political Party, gave a series of interviews last week about the particulars of this country's demand for a "Status of Forces" agreement with Iraq -- a treaty which Mr. Bush does not intend to show Congress before he signs it.
The Iraqi politicians say the treaty demands Iraq's consent to the establishment of nearly double the number of U-S military bases in Iraq -- from about 30, to 58, and from temporary, to permanent.
Those will be American men and women who must, of necessity, staff these bases - staff them, in Mr. McCain's MC Escher dream world in which our people can all come home while they stay there for a hundred years but they'll be back by 2013.
And when they come home, Is. Not. That. Important.
Last year, a 20-year old soldier from the Bronx, on the day of his re-deployment to a second tour in Iraq, said he just couldn't face the smell of burning flesh again. So, Jonathan Aponte paid a hit man 500 dollars... to shoot him in the knee.
Mount Sinai Hospital in New York reported treating a patient identifying himself as another Iraq-bound soldier, who claimed he had accidentally swallowed a pen at the bus station. No one doubted his story until examinations proved there was a second pen in his stomach bearing the logo of Greyhound Bus Lines.
In 2006, says his sister, a 24-year old Army Specialist from Washington State, on the eve of his second deployment, strapped a pack full of tools to his back, and then jumped off the roof of his house, injuring his spine.
And when they come home -- or more correctly, all those like them who did not risk death or disability to avoid going back -- when they come home, Is. Not. That. Important.
You've sold them all out, Senator.
You.
You, whose sacrifice for this country was as all-encompassing and as horrible as the rest of us can only imagine in our darkest moments.
You, who survived, so that you could make America a better place where young men did not have to go and die in pointless wars or be maimed or be held prisoner or have to hire hit-men to shoot them in the knee because that couldn't be worse.
You, who should know better.
Where, Senator, is the man who once said "veterans hate war more than anyone else, because veterans know, because veterans know these brave Americans, and others, know, that there is nothing more painful than the loss of a comrade. Where is he, sir?
Where is the man who described that ineffable truth?
Oh, so long ago you touched the essence of the reality of Iraq. Your comments about your lost comrades, yesterday.
The men and women in Iraq, today, Senator -- they are your comrades, too.
And you are condemning them to die.
To die, for your misdirections, for Mr. Bush's lies -- for whoever makes the money off building 58 permanent American bases and all the weapons and all the bullets and all the wiring so costly and so slip-shod that it electrocutes our comrades as they step, not to fight freedom's enemies, but into the shower at the base.
That, Senator, that is context.
It is an easy thing to dismiss Senator McCain as a sad and befuddled figure, already challenging for some kind of campaign record for malaprops.
Just yesterday in Philadelphia he answered Senator Obama, not by defending or explaining his own "not that important" remark, but by seizing upon Obama's "bitter" remark - or trying to.
Obama had foolishly said that some, in despair, in small towns, cling to their religion and their guns.
Senator McCain vowed he'd go to those towns and tell them, "I don't agree with Senator Obama that they cling to their religion and the Constitution because they're bitter."
It was hard not to dismiss with a laugh, Senator McCain, or any Republican, for even accidentally implying that he's clung to the Constitution -- not after the last seven years.
It was hard, the day before, not to become almost bemused when the Senator tried to say he would veto every single bill with earmarks, but wound up, instead, vowing "I will veto every single beer."
It was hard, this week, not to laugh at how Senator McCain could offer any serious defense against the accusation that he is running for President Bush's third term, when a 2006 interview suddenly surfaced in which McCain said he would consider Dick Cheney for a position in a McCain administration.
"I don't know if I would want him as Vice President. He and I have the same strengths. But to serve in other capacities? Hell, yeah."
These are all very funny, in a macabre yet unthreatening way.
And then one remembers Senator McCain's inability to separate Sunni and Shia, or his insistence that Iran is training Al-Qaeda for service in Iraq, and then being corrected about it, and then saying the same thing again anyway.
And then one is, inevitably, drawn back again to the overlooked substance of yesterday's remark...
"If (the surge) is now working, Senator, do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?"
"No."
No?
The surge is working and even that still tells Senator McCain nothing about when we can ransom our soldiers?
Wasn't that the ultimate purpose of the surge? To get them out?
If we cannot tell -- if McCain cannot even guess -- doesn't that, by definition, mean... the surge isn't working?
And ultimately we are drawn back to the "not... too... important" remark, in its full context:
The context of the kaleidoscope of confused rhetoric, and endless non sequiturs, and mutually exclusive conclusions -- and what they add up to: a veritable tragedy, a microcosm of the American tragedy that is Iraq, a tragedy of a man who himself will never understand "the context."
Your tragedy, Senator McCain?
No. I'm sorry.
This tragedy is of Justin Mixon of Bogalusa, Louisiana.
And it's of Christopher McCarthy of Virginia Beach.
It's of Quincy Green of El Paso, and Joshua Waltenbaugh of Ford City, PA.
The tragedy is of Shane Duffy of Taunton, Mass, and Jonathan Emard of Mesquite, Texas.
It's of Cody Legg of Escondido in California, and David Hurst of Fort Sill in Oklahoma.
The tragedy is of Thomas Duncan, III, of Rowlett, Texas, and Tyler Pickett of Saratoga, Wyoming.
And who are they, Senator?
They are ten Americans who have died in Iraq since the first of this month. There are four more. The Defense Department has not yet identified the others.
And while you, Senator, may ask for all the context you can get, those ten men will never know any of it.
Because the true context here, is that if you could ask those American war heroes, or the family and the friends that loved them, if they have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq...
They could rightly say, "No. But that's. Not. That. Important."
Good night, and good luck.
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Remarks we are about to hear: "Jock sniffer, nobody watches him anyway, yawn..."
I saw the speech live. Now if only the DNC would make more commercials regarding this stuff, because we all know the RNC is planning negative ads that will flame Obama to no end. They'll throw the kitchen sink at him worse than Hillary did.
By the way, here's my latest video on an anti-war comic.
"Good night, and good luck."
Good Luck alright
In seventy days or so McCain will be replaced by the real GOP candidate at the Convention.
Keith Olberman knocks another one out of the park! He's a true american patriot unafraid to call a spade a spade. Kudos to Keith!! Keep the truth coming - people are listening and the facts are stacking up against McPappy every day. Soon this avalanche of lies, flipflops, misjudgments, infidelities, and overt corruption with the lobbyists will put his campaign totally under.
Good Night, McPappy! Oops...you're already asleep - this we can clearly see.
The only people who have less credibility than John McCain are George Bush, Rush Limbaugh, and Keith Olbermann.
Sherry @ 7:
What an odd remark.
It seems as if the Republicans are getting their knickers in a knot over Michelle Obama. And getting ready to take aim at her over the next few months. But maybe they should take a look in the mirror and ask themselves what are they so “proud” of? Maybe they should revisit what Michelle Obama has seen from her American leaders since she was born the year after President Kennedy got killed. And then, no matter what they come up with and manage to spin, I’ll still take a straight shooter who doesn’t mince words - the Michelle way. That’s American. That’s the American way. And the choice of spouses also tells me loads of the candidates themselves. And not the way you think. http://angryafrican.net/2008/06/12/michelle-not-a-stepford-wife/
Sherry @ 7:
And Sherry.
As far as McCain, Maybe We Need a Real Vet to Vet this Vet
I keep hearing all this stuff about bringing home the troops in defeat.
What, exactly, defines victory? Has anyone ever defined that?
To my knowledge, no one has. "Defeat" is used as the ultimate trump card against bringing the troops home from the "war"(read occupation).
What defines victory?
[Deleted, Flame Baiting. Site Monitor]
Brad @ 8:
Bob Somerby calls Olbermann "the worst con man in the world." It's not an uncommon opinion, among people who value responsible media.
Angry African on the Loose @ 9:
Keep your eye on this site.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 4:
Is this possible?? If so, I really do agree that this is upcoming. I think we'd better be ready for - Cheney for President? I haven't heard anyone else float this but it seems obvious at this point. There MUST be hysteria in the halls of Repub. power spots at the meltdown of their goony nominee who can't possibly win w/o dirty tricks that might be a stretch even for their wicked abilities - don't you think??
[Refers to deleted post. Site Monitor]
WOW, sounds like someone got dissed by Keith at the local pub.
ferrofluid (Obama 08) @ 4:
thats what i said , got rediculedfor it, mccstools a throw away tool , they will slip in the real candidate at the convention and scrape mccstool off the bottoms of thier boots,
jules @ 13:
No, no, no. You misunderstood. We are not talking about Dick Cheney.
Where did all of the unhinged hanky-grabbers come from? Did O'Reilly suddenly shut down his comment blog, and send his acolytes over here?
I thought that the "Surge" was to give the Iraqi's time settle their own differences and establish a functioning government. What happend ??
Otay @ 19:
They have a phone tree. Whenever Kieth is posted on here every wingnut calls 16 of his most moronic relatives.
jules @ 13:
Sherry @ 14:
Oh. So why do you think this way, besides what other people think?
McCain has been saying for ages that he wants to keep troops in Iraq, as long as it takes, even 100 years, 1,000 years.
He said to Matt that it's not too important that they come home, but the casualities are important. He said Americans are in Japan and Germany, and that's fine.
He is just reiterating his inane and unrealistic policy of suggesting that a permanent occupation is possible or wise in a country we can't stabilize.
It isn't even news.
Sadly, Olberman's shtick has become a cliche. He seems to "fake it, until you make it," with his last two Special Comments.
He's formulaic. He's alright, he's better than any other personality based news show, but he's getting staid.
On The Supreme Court GITMO decision:
While I AGREE with today's majority opinion that "all enemy combatants detained during a war, at least insofar as they are confined in an area away from the battlefield, [but] over which the United States exercises 'absolute and indefinite' control, may seek a writ of habeas corpus in federal court," I also AGREE with Chief Justice Roberts (and his fellow dissenters) that the Writ can be suspended in time of war, such as the war on terror that we find ourselves involved in right now, and that suspension power belongs to Congress, such as Congress has exercised in this case, "as the Constitution surely allows Congress to [wield]."
Brad @ 23:
no offense but who cares i mean the worst con man....already sounds over the top......just ridiculous hate speech no substance
karl @ 28:
Yeah, Somerby is known for his lack of analysis and hate speech. Good point.
Sherry @ 25:
Brad @ 24:
Been having serious mood swings recently?
Sherry @ 14:
Responsible media. Do you know any? Can you name them?
Janet @ 31:
yeah...........reuters
Janet @ 31:
Most of them have retired. The 60 minutes team still can do a good job. NPR, Moyers are still pretty good. The Times has run some good stuff, but they're pretty spotty.
Janet @ 31:
i don't believe olberman claims top be hard core news he is more into the satirical/opinion...a lot of it is entertainment take it easy geeze
Sherry @ 33:
try reuters...........for fair media
osiris @ 5:
I echo this......Thank you K.O.
xoites defends Constitution @ 30:
Sorry, not following.
National Propaganda Radio? I don't think so. It is run by the guy that used to run an official government boadcast service calle Radio Free Europe. When the wall came down they shipped him over here so Cokie Roberts could go on unquestioned.
Just more evidence that the invasion of Iraq was planned years in advance and part of that plan includes the PERMANENT presence of US troops there.
with mccain were going to get more of this
a president who doesn't agree anything that's not his way
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=84527&videoChannel=1
this is a good source for news.........i think npr can be a good source for interviews
Sherry @ 37:
In one breath you say McCain is inane. In another breath you say Olbermann has no credibility for commenting on McCain being inane. You also say it is not news.
The man is attempting to be our next President. If his ideas are inane, as you put it, then that would be news, would it not?
Did you catch that last part? Doesn't the constitution say that the Senate must ratify all treaties by a 2/3 vote? How can he sign it into law without their consent or even showing them?
jules @ 13:
Olberman....he has become too bias to watch. He started with a few ethics but all seem to have disappeared. Not a show I watch anymore.
Joanie @ 44:
Yes, Fox is fair and balanced. Know how i know?
They told me!
We watched Olbermann and his comment tonight and I thought he was over the top on several points. He went on about what McCain has said at the beginning of the war, but McCain wasn't the only one saying those things. There were all kinds of other people saying the same thing. It was only Rumsfeld and the Bush policy who never implemented it right that caused things to go wrong, and that is when McCain spoke out against the implementation. And when you honestly look at the Lauer question, “If it’s now working, Senator,” Matt continued, “do you now have a better estimate of when American forces can come home from Iraq?”. When he said No, that's not important, but the casualties are......I take it for what I did earlier that he doesn't have a better estimate. Then Olbermann went on about 58 bases. Well that is Bush, not McCain, and no matter whether it be McCain or Obama who says they will "bring the troops home", many will have to stay anyway to protect your biggest Embassy in the world and all who work there. I just personally felt that Olbermann went farther than he needed to by bringing up all the names of the soldiers who had either died or injured themselves but seems lately that he can say anything now in his quest to be "the biggest democratic Obama supporter" on TV. We used to really enjoy watching him via satellite but now he is getting too much to listen to sometimes. The same with what he said about Couric last night saying there was indeed sexism shown towards Hillary, yet he denied it and he was the one who said that to get Hillary out of the race she should be taken into a room where only he comes out.
Sherry @ 33:
I know Moyers did a segment on impeachment and the negligent media. 60 minutes asked no hard questions or follow ups to bush. How many news shows or newspapers covered Kucinich and the 35 articles of impeachment? Our pResident is guilty of war crimes and the media is silent. Is that responsible journalism? Keith at least, tells the truth and backs it up. If others reported the facts as he does this wouldn't be an issue.
Something is going on every freakin day and without places like C&L and Keith, we wouldn't know squat.
The foreign press is more open. They report things like this
You won't see that story anytime soon here.
Joanie @ 44:
no offense but don't watch he has an audience he doesn't pretend not to be bias that's the difference..........many people don't want to hear this..........we have to... especially the ones that believe in this occupation....i'm glad i didn't vote for bush or believe in the iraq war
I've been zoning out on some of K.O.'s more recent Special Comments.
But I thought this was a good one tonight.
Fuck Keith Olbermann and his fucking ego.
foreigner @ 46:
06/11/08 DoD Identifies Army Casualty
Staff Sgt. Tyler E. Pickett, 28, of Saratoga, Wyo., died June 8 in Kirkuk Province, Iraq, of wounds suffered when his unit was attacked by enemy forces using improvised explosive devices. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 22nd Infantry Regiment...
06/11/08 DoD Identifies Army Casualty
Pfc. Thomas F. Duncan, III, 21, of Rowlett, Texas, died June 9 in Sinjar, Iraq, of wounds suffered during combat operations. He was assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, Fort Lewis, Wash. The incident is under investigation.
Fourteen dead in the last twelve days.
I guess McCain must be right.
A lot of trolls this evening, eh
P.D. @ 52:
Its an Olbermann thread, go get some popcorn.
Owned
Not sure what everyone is complaining about. I thought it was one of the most powerful yet understated Special Comment he's ever done--he didn't get incredibly upset like he did with the Hillary Clinton one a few weeks ago. He didn't yell or shout at McCain. He simply showed McCain's history of comments and the profound disconnect it shows. Looked like he was pretty choked up when he read the names of the KIA soldiers.
Everyone's saying he's "over the top" or "incredibly biased," but what, specifically, did he do *wrong* with this comment?
ellen @ 16:
tyree @ 18:
Is a very real possibility, why would they choose somebody so past his sell by date like McCain,
either the Repugs are stupider than we thought, or theres some clever tactics going on.
Switch and bait, force the Democrats to focus all their tactics onto Mac, then switch him out for Huckabee maybe.
September would give them 60 days to build up a suspended candidate.
Could the Democrats switch attacks and MSM adverts from Mac to Huckabee in time !?
P.D. @ 52:
dude no shit
foreigner @ 46:
----
Um, so McCain should be congratulated for backing the Iraq Fiasco, then blaming Rumsfeld after things went wrong?
That just tells me he was as wrong as Bush, and even more gutless.
The trolls are getting antsy. Good.
karl @ 57:
Not positive but i think "dudette" might be more appropriate in P.D,'s case.
xoites defends Constitution @ 60:
sorry no disrespect
SK @ 50:
Lets go ask Billo about his lufa and his sexual court case, or Lumpy Rashes two drug arrests and convictions, or Sean about his Brownsville girlfriend, or Lady Ann and her visit to that certain restaurant on its opening night, or Jeff Gannon and his midnight trips to the Whitehouse.
The same people who complain when Kieth expresses an opinion (which is what one does on a commentary show, by the way) are the same people who complain that Jon Stewart points out that the media refused to cover a story but failed to do so himself. It is not his job. His job is to make fun of the idiots. A by product of that is news leaks through.
foreigner @ 46:
watch o'reilly instead he's not over the top
In most of my forum I visit, I get complaint about how sickening Keith Olberman is and how he just hate our country. But I never get what specific of his message that they don't like. They say Keith is pompous, and some even distort that Keith was involve in a sexual harassment case in the NFL, but failed to mention that he was a witness of a female employee being harass.
I think one of the most primary thing about Keith is that he uses big word for some of these folks that bash Keith. I think that is why calling people like Keith an elitist works for them, even though we (the left winger) been calling the top 5% of the wealthy, the elitist class.
The vote to put Impeachment on the floor been approve with overwhelming number, but I haven't heard a thing about it on MSM. Interesting, but only surprise that it got put on the floor to vote.
It's called Monday morning quarter backing something liberals are good at because they can't seem to commit to anything...Olberwoman is a dickhead.
This dudette is getting PO'ed of the smearing of Keith. Limpballs, O'Liely, Malkin, Coulter can say whatever they want, regardless of the controversy. But Keith? What a liberal! WTF? Give this dudette a break!
keitho seemed to me to be this close to busting out in tears. not that i would have blamed him.
i will say this, that when keith makes his special comments, he rips his heart from his sleeve and puts it on paper.
KYJurisDoctor @ 27:
Does this apply to our soldiers as well?
Just a for instance....Our soldiers are captured by someone...does this mean they(the BADGUY...aka ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH 'MERICA) should be allowed to torture them?
Another great "Special Comment" however... I didnt care for Keith not using John McCain's audio from his video footage. It allowed Keith to add and / or change emphasis to portions that werent necessarily emphasized in real time. Its just a slight perception item.
McCain makes himself look bad enough. Special emphasis during the special comment isnt necessary.
NEPAConservative @ 66:
i'm almost certain he isn't as intelligent as you are.......don't watch o'reilly needs the ratings........he's not over the top
the neocons stand for something.. your right about that.......but it's not the constitution
NEPAConservative @ 66:
----
Nobody's monday morning quarterbacking.
Most liberals thought Iraq was a fuckup before it even started.
Good job, KO. Speaking "truth to power" is a very important concept. When other folks step away from the McCain BBQ and realize that they've been had, then we might get somewhere.
Until then, we need to capitalize on KO's special comment and run out some ads refuting McCain's raving claims about the surge.
paranoia @ 65:
Where did Keith Olbermann's audience go?
Morning programs P2+ (25-54) FOX & Friends – 886,000 viewers (411,000) American Morning- 345,000 viewers (145,000) Morning Joe – 255,000 viewers (64,000) Robin & Co. – 270,000 viewers (141,000)
6PM - P2+ (25-54) Special Report with Brit Hume – 1,127,000 viewers (327,000) Lou Dobbs- 689,000 viewers (186,000) Tucker Carlson- 217,000 viewers (58,000) Mad Money- 172,000 viewers (a scratch with 16,000) Prime News- a scratch with 109,000 viewers (a scratch with 42,000)
7PM - P2+ (25-54) FOX Report with Shepard Smith – 1,204,000 viewers (317,000) Situation Room – 450,000 viewers (123,000) Hardball– 313,000 viewers (109,000) On the Money – 180,000 viewers (a scratch with 18,000) Glenn Beck – 384,000 viewers (161,000)
8PM - P2+ (25-54) O’Reilly Factor- 2,282,000 viewers (501,000) LSD: 2,296,000 viewers (513,000) Out in the Open – 496,000 viewers (182,000) LSD: 496,000 viewers (182,000) Countdown w/ Olbermann- 599,000 viewers (210,000) LSD: 645,000 viewers (248,000) Fast Money- 225,000 viewers (67,000) LSD: 235,000 viewers (77,000) Nancy Grace – 573,000 viewers (213,000) LSD: 574,000 viewers (214,000)
9 PM - P2+ (25-54) Hannity & Colmes- 1,634,000 viewers (403,000) Larry King Live- 1,093,000 viewers (255,000) Live w/ Dan Abrams- 371,000 viewers (136,000) Business Nation- 182,000 viewers (59,000) Glenn Beck – 342,000 viewers (124,000)
10 PM P2+ (25-54) On the Record w/ Greta Van Susteren- 1,152,000 viewers (346,000) Anderson Cooper- 789,000 viewers (244,000) MSNBC Special- 288,000 viewers (140,000)** Ran from 10-10:30PM ET MSNBC Special- 233,000 viewers (108,000) **Ran from 10:30-11PM ET Donny Deutsch- 180,000 viewers (60,000) Nancy Grace – 400,000 viewers (230,000)
11 PM P2+ (25-54) O’Reilly Factor- 1,046,000 viewers (450,000) Anderson Cooper – 436,000 viewers (155,000) MSNBC Special– 234,000 viewers (119,000) Mad Money– 148,000 viewers (73,000) Showbiz Tonight – 310,000 viewers (153,000)
Gay marriage will snuff you liberals out. Soon Keith will have zero viewers.
I probably know these trolls as I point out what I find through here from time to time, but they do sound like they came from my ranch of Bush branded trollettes. All I can say is make yourself a home fpr the trolls and challenge them to discriminate every fact that is found here.
foreigner @ 46:
But those other folks aren't the ones running for president, now are they? And furthermore, it is only slightly more visible than blindingly obvious that McCain has been extremely inconsistent on this issue, and that he has no idea what he is talking about. Olbermann wasn't exaggerating anything; he was merely reporting what those of us who have been paying attention have known for the entire campaign.
You try to say that he has been different from Bush...McCain himself would disagree with you on that. Over the past few years he has said quite clearly, and more than once, that on the "most important" issues, he is absolutely in agreement with Bush. And if you look at his voting record, he is also in agreement with Bush on the "less important" issues. So far, in 2008, he has voted in accord with Bush's views 100% of the time. In all of 2007, he voted in accord with Bush's views 95% of the time. McCain's views on economics, the environment, education, social services, and yes, Iraq, among many other issues, are absolutely in lock-step with the views and policies of President Bush.
And you are equivocating between peace-time guards at a foreign embassy and a combat force in a war zone when you talk about troops needing to stay to guard our diplomats. Those are not the same thing by any stretch of the imagination. Like it or not, Obama will get our troops out of Iraq. McCain will not. That's reality.
Olbermann was 100% correct about everything he said in this clip. That is also reality. If the only way you can deal with that is by falsely accusing him of going over the top, then fine, stop watching his program. He's talking to people who are receptive to another point of view, after all.
NEPAConservative @ 66:
I can commit to thinking you are unthinking ideolouge by what you just said. How's that for commitment?
I know...I was supprised too...Olberman has an audience?!?!?
Slight off topic, but did anyone see the town hall meeting McCain held this evening? Their fawning coverage is just another reminder about why congress needs to address the Fairness Doctrine. Fox covered the hour-long meeting in place of reporting news. I am certain they wouldn't give Obama the same coverage had he held the meeting. McCain got an hour of free advertising disguised as news.
Perhaps even more unsettling was McCain's answer to a Latino man who asked about Supreme Court justices. Once the guy said he was Hispanic, McCain jumped all over how he supports and courts the Hispanic vote. After he prefaced his answer with this non-sequitor dressing, he completely forgot what it was the questioner asked. I doubt the press will pick up on it, but it was clear McCain was having another "senior moment." It was like watching a train wreck. I just couldn't turn away.
Despite the uncomfortable moment, Hannity later praised the performance while Dick Morris chimed in how Obama can only perform if he has a teleprompter.
What cheese.
brithumeistheantichrist @ 79:
dick morris =====inferiority complex he's closet freak
KYJurisDoctor @ 27:
We have kept these people locked up for 6 years with no right to employ the one international law that has been recognized for over 600 years--the right to find out why they are being held. "Bring me the body" is what habeas corpus means--in short, why was I arrested? Many of these people were turned in for bounty money by rival tribal members. You, KYJurisDoctor, are no better than those tribal lords in seeking your revenge. What, exactly, in our law would preclude bringing the guilty to justice while still freeing the innocent so unjustly held? Go buy a $5 constitution and come back after you have memorized it. Or would you like to be in the same situation? Your hate is showing and it is not attractive.
Has there been one troll yet to attack the message?
NEPAConservative @ 80:
Calling someone a dickhead is your idea of debate?
You ever go to high school?
brithumeistheantichrist @ 79:
-----
No, nobody saw it.
Ha!
I'm Mc cain and "I will clench my teeth when i SHpeak and shit my depenjsh at the SHame time my frenjsh"
NEPAConservative @ 80:
nobody cares about your dime store psychology or your over the top critique........give it a rest
NEPAConservative @ 80:
"
And so am I. You are stupid and that's why we can call you names. Now go away. You need to read something.
paranoia @ 83:
Of course not. People "arguing" against someone who has the facts on their side can't attack the message. Their only option is to get personal.
enough @ 88:
That depends on if he is a smoker and there are matchbook covers lying around his house.
xoites defends Constitution @ 41:
Olbermann starts by saying that McCain has protested that his remark has been taken out of context. McCain says he meant that his estimate isn't important, not that it isn't important whent the troops come home.
He reiterated his comments about a long peacetime occupation, which is a dumb, misguided policy. But, the "not too important" comment is ambiguous. Did he mean that he doesn't care when the soldiers presently there end their tours? McCain said he didn't. That's the debate.
Olbermann says he will give it context - and talks about McCain's poor record of credibility on the war and the cost.
To use the "not too important" comment - again in questionable context, and expanding that misuse - is a cheap rhetorical trick, and typical Keith. Using what some call "the cult of the offhand comment" to score a point.
But I can see analysis of Keith's dishonesty and disgrace to discourse makes me a troll, so I'll quit there.
When the trolls show up, we win...lolololololol. Don't go vote trolls, stay home and pout....or...shhhhhh vote for Obama but never tell anyone...shhhhh...
The trolls are out Bloggin' for McSame.
osirus @ 5, and Janet @ 47, very well said. I agree with you 100%.
Keith Olbermann, Jon Stewart and David Letterman are true American patriots for speaking the truth. It takes a lot of guts to do what they do.
karl @ 48:
Good God!!! Does no one use proper grammar anymore? Hell, I would even settle for a little judicious punctuation here and there. Just because you can write a string of words does not mean I should have to expend the mental energy to try to interpret your ramblings. Fuck!!! Also, it's "biased" and not bias. Bias is a noun and biased is an adjective. Wow!!!
" i shit my depenjsh again my frienjsh"!!!!!!!
Sherry @ 14:
Absurd!
Interesting how the concern trolls only attack the messenger. They obviously don’t even listen to what he’s saying. As a reminder, Ron Paul has not yet dropped out of the race to the Refunioncan Convention. I recommend you begin stocking up on popcorn now. Could get vewy intewesting. That is of course if McSenile can last until then.
Hope McCain keeps doing his solo "town hall meetings" on Fox.
Sounds like it has the potential for some serious flop sweat.
Sherry @ 91:
McCain say "A" one day and the next day he says, "I meant to say 'B.'" the man is running for President and he never means what he says. It is about time he gets called on it. He has been getting a free pass since he became the presumptive Republican Nominee for the Presidency of the United States of America. Don't you get it?
Well, you claim that you tried to debate, but you claim that you got bash, I just went back to find where your debate was.
It's not there! So are you lying? or had a senior moment?
Sherry @ 91:
Every freaking time McCains says something stupid he turns around and say he meant something else and was misinterpreted. If anyone says anything, his minions cry ageism. McCain is demented and somebody needs to call him on it. Keith just did.
numfar @ 69:
No, they should not be "allowed" to torture them, but it's not a question of what they are allowed to do, it is a question of what we are willing to do. That's all that is really in our control, and we are supposed to be better than them. If they torture our troops, as has happened in the past, there may or may not be consequences for the torturers.
Do you think our torturing of their people is going to keep them from torturing ours? Or is it just revenge, perhaps even before the fact?
Sherry @ 7:
Do you really know the definition of credibility?
I think not!
xoites defends Constitution @ 99:
...and then he goes and says "A" again.
Joe @ 95:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLkXOd1mOdQ
Adam Sandler does a good McBush impression in this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLkXOd1mOdQ
greymoose @ 94:
if your trying to stir it up... it's going take more then that if you want to critique my entries go ahead....i'm sure your very intelligent...i'm glad you know what a noun and adjective are i'm very impressed.......
Sherry @ 14:
You've been conned alright, but not by Keith Olbermann!
Loonie @ 104:
But that's ok. He doesn't mean it.
This Machine Kills Fascists @ 102:
So...why should principals that apply to our soldiers not be applied to "theirs"?
The surge is working, if by that you mean all those war lords we bought to ferret out the terrorists, hope that doesn't blow up in our face later.
xoites defends Constitution @ 15:
Thanks! I had heard of this site, but couldn't find the link.
numfar @ 109:
Because we don't command their soldiers? If the guy down the street starts molesting your children are you going to molest his?
"Cult of offhand comment"? in front of a podium of his supporter? "Offhand comments", that were caught on tape in broadcast to the whole world to see and scrutinize? "Offhand comments"? Really?
"McDonalds, today I ordered your Big Mac with fries and I am here to report, sir, that you forget to include ketchup. We're approaching the anniversary of 9/11 sir, where THOUSANDS died, and yet you can't even provide me my spiced tomato puree? SIR IT WAS YOU, YOU SIR, WHO ADVERTISED YOUR RESTAURANT WITH THE ASSURANCE THAT I WOULD RECEIVE THE APPROPRIATE CONCESSIONS, AND YET SIR, HERE I AM WITH A BURGER SANS KETCHUP. EXPLAIN YOUR ACTIONS SIR, EXPLAIN THEM TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WHO SUFFER DAILY WITHOUT THIS MOST BASIC OF HAMBURGER ESSENTIALS!
Good night and good luck."
Joanie @ 44:
Yes, his bias toward the truth could be frightening to some.
Sherry @ 91:
OK, so you start by defending McCain's spinning of his comment. Which automatically ends the credibility of your critique considering McCain's record of dishonesty, but let's keep going anyway.
And in that debate, any rational person would not give McCain the benefit of the doubt, because he has lied and prevaricated so many times already. Moving on...
So, in other words, you give McCain the benefit of the doubt about what he meant by "not too important", despite the fact that he does not deserve it, and dismiss the whole comment as a "gotcha moment" even in the face of McCain's long history of being wrong and inconsistent about the entire issue (documented, as you pointed out, by Olbermann in this very comment).
And you wonder why people here are seeing you as at best a hack and at worst a troll?
ayesel @ 113:
Wow! You could ghost write for Nancy reagan. You have "vacuous" down pat.
They must have called Troll Curfew for the night.
bed time for the haters
karl @ 106:
If you're trying to stir it up, it's going to take more than that. If you want to critique my entries, go ahead. I'm sure you're very intelligent. I'm glad you know what a noun and adjective are. I'm very impressed.
That was fun. Did you notice all those little periods, apostrophes, and big letters? Maybe I should have majored in English. The fact is, if you organize your thoughts into structurally sound sentences, it is more likely to convey your intent. I am not suggesting that I am smarter than you or anyone here. I just have a soft spot and respect for our language.
From your initial post, I understood that you "believe in this occupation" and are glad you didn't vote for bush or believe in the iraq war. Re-read your post and see if that's the message you wished to convey. If not, then some syntax work would be in order. If so, there seems to be a contradiction in your logic.
karl @ 119:
They come in as a group and they leave as a group. Sounds like a bunch of nambie pambies to me.
numfar @ 109:
(actually, I hesitate even writing this, as xoites' answer is tré succinct... eh, why not...)
How do you propose to accomplish that? We have (had?) the Geneva Conventions, but they have been deemed "quaint", though it was really all there was when fighting other nation-states. However, we are not fighting against other countries that have agreed to the conventions. In these cases, are you suggesting that we throw our moral and ethical codes out because the other guy doesn't have the same codes, and what would be the value of doing that?
JoeMarasmus @ 2:
The Democrats are far too chickenshit of offending any moderates to actually promote such a politically aggressive and necessary maneuver.
Nope. That could have, and should have, been shorter, by at least two thirds. Keith is sounding entirely too holier-than-thou and jumping on too much stuff in order to do it. He could have been more effective with a lot less on this, and he should watch it because people are already calling him a windbag.... I don't want to join them but this one was entirely too hot air filled. He probably lost half the people who would have had to sit there and THINK about it if he'd confined himself to about the last minute of this scolding.
xoites defends Constitution @ 121:
It's a payroll thing, you know... shift change.
Sherry @ 7:
Sherry,
I think you have been drinking a little too much of your namesake - are you related to the old fart or something?
greymoose @ 120:
As someone who deeply respects the English Language i would like to suggest your solilique would fit well in a class room at any level of education. I would like to point out, however, that the entire point of language is to communicate ideas. I have never had a problem understanding Karl and am puzzled that you misinterpreted what he said. For all your punctuational expertice you seem lacking in basic communication skills.
This is the internet not an essay contest. STFU!
It's a well-known fact that the truth has a liberal bias.
Thank God for Keith Olbermann speaking facts and the truth. Thanks to him and Bill Moyers we still have two men trying to shine a light upon the darkness that has overtaken our government since the Neo cons took over Washington. The MSM is owned by the military industrial complex.
This Machine Kills Fascists @ 122:
I have to say, it looks to me that the both of you actually *agree* here. It seems to me that numfar doesn't believe in torture either and feels that we need to maintain the moral high ground, and that the both of you are misinterpreting the other's remarks.
A Warning to My Old Republican Friends: Screw Up The Obama Moment and You're History -- Literally
Great article. Long but worth the time.
Ex-Canuck @ 126:
All the flashing GIFs and blinking text on the Hillary for McCain site makes em go kookoo.
“Make it a hundred! We’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me. As long as Americans are not being injured or harmed or wounded or killed. That’s fine by me…”
John McCain… January 3rd, 2008.
somebody then needs to ask mccain, "what if in that time frame of 10, 20, 50, 60 or 100 years americans are still being 'injured or harmed or wounded or killed'? when do we pull out?"
it looks to me that if there is peace, we stay. if there is fighting, we stay. I ask again. when do we leave?
Whoah, it's mad trolly in here tonight. Plainly, Mr. Olbermann has spent his adult life mastering hard things like language and logic for the sole purpose of defeating America from within.
By the way, I found the embedded video to be of really good quality, and actually playable in Teh Kanatas.
Shade Tail @ 130:
You know, you're correct, I didn't go upthread enough. I really dislike the formatting of the comment section here, I never seem to get used to it (that helps explain why I don't post here much). Yes, we are both asking questions toward the same answer...
Carry on.
Oy.
greg @ 133:
Not before the arms dealers have made all the money they want.
Not before the oil men have made all the money they want.
Not before the Haliburton has made all the money they want.
Not before the Blackwater has made all the money they want.
Sherry @ 7:
You forgot yourself.....I'm sorry, who are you?
Shade Tail @ 116:
Actually, I do wonder, but I do have a sense that it has to do with your not being very bright.
Let's start again with Keith, who in my humble opinion is a vile hack who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt. You may recall that he made a statement about Hillary Clinton going into a room with a superdelegate, and only one coming out. Some people pounced, and Olbermann said he misspoke.
Olbermann, vile as he is, is entitled to misspeak. There isn't any reason to hold him to every comment. It isn't a question of his general honesty. It is a question of how humans communicate, and that they sometimes misspeak. So, even though he had a pattern of being unfair to Clinton, it was also unfair to construe something untoward in the isolated sentence.
But Olbermann never gives others the same courtesy. Here, McCain makes a statement, and claims that he is being taken out of context for political purposes. McCain's claim is certainly legitimate on its face. As with Olbermann's comment about Clinton not coming out of the room, it is a sentence out of a long broadcast. In other words, an offhand comment. People, no matter what the depths of their dishonesty or purity of soul, misspeak, especially those who make their living talking all day long.
To take these offhand comments and make them into the focus of political debate is extremely counterproductive - it doesn't matter who uses the tactic. If you are arguing, as you appear to be, that there is a different standard for misspeaking or ambiguous comments for people who are honest and people who aren't, so that it is fair game to use a three sentence phrase out of a career or an interview for one candidate and not another, you will get exactly what you ask for. And that is that each side will claim the other side is dishonest, and deserves to be give the gotcha treatment.
And what will you get if you don't hold Olbermann to standards of fairness? Elections decided on "I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it." I know this is all over your head, but calling me a troll isn't going to help you understand.
xoites defends Constitution @ 136:
yes, those are the answers in reality. however, the GOP doesn't work in the realisphere. what do you think mccain would really answer? i think he would be stumped. it would be great if a reporter could ask him and reduce him to stuttering (again).
Great comment by Keith. I can't forget he spoke the truth back when everyone else on the tube was afraid to do so.
Sherry @ 138:
You are calling Shade Tail "not very bright" and it took you forty minutes to type that up?
ellen @ 16:
I thank Keith Olbermann for speaking the truth and stating the facts. Most people do not want to hear truth and prefer to hear nice sounding lies. I do believe in God and the words that Jesus spoke about you reap what you sow. Regarding the prisoners that are being held without a trial that is unspeakable. We cry when that occurs when our soldiers are held in a foreign country and tortured as McCain was. You reap what you sow. We are in Iraq on a lie but that's alright since we are the Gods of the world and
have to indoctrinate other countries and tell them what to believe. We are spreading democracy abroad when there is not democracy in the United States. We espoused Christian principles abroad that are not practiced here. We will reap what we sow.
So 2012 is not far away. We will see if the Myan prophecy is true.
Louis @ 142:
ellen @ 16:
ellen @ 16:
greg @ 139:
xoites defends Constitution @ 127:
no i'm telling you are smarter than me that's okay i just do the best i can please corrected my entries
Left&Left @ 137:
This "Sherry" person is a regular troll using an additional assumed name....I don't blame you "Sherry". At least you're shameful enough to be embarrassed.
I was with Olbermann until the very end when he, as is his wont, called the soldiers war heroes. When will Olbermann ever realize that dying and returning to this country does not make you a hero; on the contrary, it makes one a victim. Trying to shoot and kill innocent Iraqis is not heroic, it is oppressive.
Louis @ 144:
Left&Left @ 146:
Why does disliking Keith Olbermann make someone a troll on this board? Is it a fanblog?
karl @ 145:
I was not talking to you, Karl. I hope you did not get that impression. The very idea of someone "correcting" another person's idea infuriates me.
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