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Don't listen to the Federal Reserve or economists, dagnabit!  You're better off now than you were eight years ago.  George Will thinks so, and he's never wrong, correct?  The problem--as Will sees it--has nothing to do with economic indicators but with people like Robert Reich pointing out that the economy is benefiting the very wealthy and those in the middle class aren't seeing any improvement for them.

So for all you who haven't been able to find a job for months because yours has been outsourced and you've fallen off the unemployment rolls, or you purchased your home through companies like Countrywide, which used predatory lending tactics and are now facing foreclosure, whose IRAs and investment portfolios still haven't recovered from 2001, who have felt the pinch and had to make hard choices in your standard of living due to the higher cost of groceries and oil, quit yer whining!

Transcripts below the fold:

REICH: I don’t think you can separate economic security from national security.  This is why I find John McCain’s position so interesting, because he wants to and needs to separate himself from Bush, a failed presidency, particularly if you look at the polls.  And yet, on Iraq and on the economy, he is going beyond what George Bush has done.  I mean, his tax cuts are beyond anything that –particularly for the wealthy—beyond anything that George Bush has proposed or did implement.

WILL:  But Bob, today we have a bifurcated economy.  The export sector is doing wonderfully, it’s pulling the country along, and the Democratic Party is raising doubts about its commitment—indeed, it’s affirming its lack of commitment—to free trade. 

Now it is true that I think there is a disjunction in the public mind without precedent in 200 years of American history.  We’ve always assumed that the very process—the dynamic market capitalism—produces increased national wealth simultaneously produced increased family and individual security.  Now the doubt is that today’s capitalism on steroids, if you will, globalized capitalism increases national wealth, but undermines family and individual security which will produce a great flinch from free economics.

REICH: That’s exactly the point.  That’s exactly the problem, George.  Americans now have lost their faith in free trade; they’ve lost their faith in economic growth because they haven’t seen the benefits of it. It’s all gone to the top.  That’s why Obama’s tax cuts for the middle class and for the poor are so critical for this campaign.

WILL: Because friends like you are misinforming the country by saying that they have not seen benefits.  Even housing, Bob, housing today after the big decline, the average American house is worth a third more than it was in 2000. 

REICH:  George Will, you tell average Americans that they are better off today than they were in 2000-2001…

WILL:  I will.

REICH:  …and they will not believe you.



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104 comments

George Will is better off today than he was eight years ago. Rain or shine, recession or boom, he gets paid well. In fact, most of the folks you see on these TV news shows _ commentators and guests, for the most part _ do very well salary-wise. They are addressing an issue that really doesn't affect their bottom line as much as it does "average" Americans.

I think there should be a show asking these folks how much money they make, how much they spend a day on items, what expenses are covered by their companies, if the economy has affected them. It would be nice to see where they are in the pecking order before commenting on other less-economically well off folks, like myself.

George Will, what do you make?

The only way I'm better off this year is that I don't have to look forward to George Bush being in office in 2009.

I can't stand when people who have never even met an "average American" have the balls to go up on their podium and tell us that we should be delighted with how well things are going, thanks to 'free trade' (read, 'union busting' and 'selling out America's once-great industrial sector') and 'tax cuts (for the wealthy)'.

If you think Bush's presidency was bad, McCain's economic and fiscal proposals are insanity in comparison.

At the very end Sam Donaldson starts saying "we met some average Americans last week on vacation in Italy." Yup, those were very "avarage" Americans, Sam. Why I remember my last vacation in Italy. Oh wait, that's a racial memory from my gradparents. No one in my family has been able to afford to go back since they came over. So I guess we're below avarage?

Erik_Da_Red @ 4:

At the very end Sam Donaldson starts saying "we met some average Americans last week on vacation in Italy." Yup, those were very "avarage" Americans, Sam. Why I remember my last vacation in Italy. Oh wait, that's a racial memory from my gradparents. No one in my family has been able to afford to go back since they came over. So I guess we're below avarage?

those average americans you met in italy now have a larger credit card balance

any member of the military industrial congressional meidatainement big pharma complex is doing just fine.

look at Halliburton's stock performance!!!! blood=money for George "Goebbels" Will and his pack of opinion manufacturers!!

If there is a hell, George Will has got secure reservations for it.

I'll keep it short: FU George Will!

Same goes for the other George.

George Will has not credibility after what he has been saying for the past few years.

Some average americans in st. paul mn and tampa fl:

http://freewayblogger.blogspot.com/2008/06/st-paultampa.html

Britney Hume made some dumbass comment about how well people are doing despite how they actually feel and Juan Williams took him to task and just laughed in his face, I have a feeling Juan will be replaced soon.
George Will And Britney Hume are the same kind of condescending hacks who have no idea how real people live.

somebody ought to ask sam donaldson, for a guy that makes your salary why would you buy a hairpiece at walmart?

[Deleted. Off topic. Malcolm, the site monitors saw as much of the same ugliness regarding Russert's death as we saw when it was announced Ted Kennedy suffered from a brain tumor. Forgive us if we don't want to be associated with the ghoulishness of those comments. Thank you. Site Monitor]

[And, upon further review, knock it off with the sock-puppetry, Malcolm Y/Dread Pirate Wesley/David Bowman. It's a good way to get yourself banned. Site Monitor]

WILL: blah blah blah...bifurcated economy...export sector....blah blah blah...free trade...blah blah blah...disjunction...blah blah blah...dynamic market capitalism...increased national wealth...blah blah...

One of our greatest living thesaurians and bovine fecalists.

;-}

Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 9:

George Will has not credibility after what he has been saying for the past few years.

he knows his party is in trouble they're barely hanging on...the republicans can no longer claim to be fiscally responsible and that's killing them..they are big government,weak dollar,war and big spending....it's obvious that the divide between rich and poor is too great..this is a different conservative philosophy that george will doesn't agree with...the NEOCON philosophy

redcat @ 12:

somebody ought to ask sam donaldson, for a guy that makes your salary why would you buy a hairpiece at walmart?

now that... is cold blooded dawg.....

George H.W.Bush lost to Clinton in 1992 because he couldn't see what the problem was - from his opaque bubble mansion view.
George Will, and friends, are having identical time-share experiences from that same window.
The natural consequences of too many overpaid corporate media whores competing for so few real issues.

BTW, George(Will); the main reason our exports are lookin up is because our dollar is in the toilet.

and it has taken george will how many years to become this stupid?

I'd like to bifurcate George Will's economy.

The condescending pundit class has not only done well during the past seven years, they've contributed to global warming with all their hot air.

Time for a Bill Maher-esque New Rule:

New Rule - rich people who claim that the economy has never been better must forfeit 90% of their wealth, which will then be shared equally amongst the rest of the country.

Hey, George, tell us again about that off-shore drilling by China.....come on, tell us once more....we need a litmus test for your "credibility".

Okay Republicans please tell me one thing that you people have not screwed up beyond recognition in the last 8 years, Just one thing, only one thing theres nothin You can say is there, Thats why you people can never run on your record and you always have to come up with some smeer tactics, If you ran on your record none of you could win an election for dog catcher

Proud2bHumble @ 13:

WILL: blah blah blah...bifurcated economy...export sector....blah blah blah...free trade...blah blah blah...disjunction...blah blah blah...dynamic market capitalism...increased national wealth...blah blah...

One of our greatest living thesaurians and bovine fecalists.

;-}

William Safire could talk circles around George Will.

The show should be called "5 out of touch windbags discuss the topics of the day"

Actually, the whole show was embarrassing--George is getting good at that. National sleeping pill and constipation advocate, Fred Thompson, was counter point to John Edwards in the first segment. I will give it to Fred, he is the nation's leading dullard, after George "p-Fuddy" Will.

karl @ 15:

redcat @ 12:

somebody ought to ask sam donaldson, for a guy that makes your salary why would you buy a hairpiece at walmart?

now that... is cold blooded dawg.....

What? the hairpiece?

Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 22:

Proud2bHumble @ 13:

WILL: blah blah blah...bifurcated economy...export sector....blah blah blah...free trade...blah blah blah...disjunction...blah blah blah...dynamic market capitalism...increased national wealth...blah blah...

One of our greatest living thesaurians and bovine fecalists.

;-}

William Safire could talk circles around George Will.

Whereas Georgie Williar is just circling the drain these days...

Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 26:

karl @ 15:

redcat @ 12:

somebody ought to ask sam donaldson, for a guy that makes your salary why would you buy a hairpiece at walmart?

now that... is cold blooded dawg.....

What? the hairpiece?

that was frickin funny

Would it surprise anyone if I said that Will is a liar?

I havent read his book (and have no intention of doing so), but he himself quoted his book by saying - republicans are willing to accept inequality of outcome in order to protect freedom - while democrats limit freedom in order to achieve equality of outcome.

You see - its a lie. Republicans have done more to limit (destroy) freedoms than literally any other group in US history - Will knows this, yet claims republicans want to preserve freedom. He is a social darwinist that will say whatever is needed to get a 'win'.

What becomes apparent is that not only was Will lying about republicans interest in preserving freedom - he was lying about being willing to 'accept' unequal outcomes to protect freedom. It is clear that unequal outcome is the point to a republican NOT freedom.

If you understand this one point - his comments make perfect sense.

He is a liar and a singular enemy of civil community.

Dr. (terrorist fist jab) Matt @ 21:

Hey, George, tell us again about that off-shore drilling by China.....come on, tell us once more....we need a litmus test for your "credibility".

i had forgotten about that.. did he ever explain himself?
http://mediamatters.org/items/200806130008

George Will is Ayn Rand with a bad hair piece and glasses.

LOL, I will take my "cash in the safe"! Thank you very much!
www.an0n.mirrorz.com

Ruthless People @ 31:

George Will is Ayn Rand with a bad hair piece and glasses.

...and larger cup size...

We are better off today than we were 8 years ago. Mainly because Bush is finally leaving, but that's it.

Erik_Da_Red @ 4:

At the very end Sam Donaldson starts saying "we met some average Americans last week on vacation in Italy." Yup, those were very "avarage" Americans, Sam. Why I remember my last vacation in Italy. Oh wait, that's a racial memory from my gradparents. No one in my family has been able to afford to go back since they came over. So I guess we're below avarage?

Lprd Donaldson passed those average Americans on their way to meet David Brooks at the Applebee's salad bar.

Will:

We’ve always assumed that the very process—the dynamic market capitalism—produces increased national wealth simultaneously produced increased family and individual security.

Whaddaya mean "we," White Man?

Now the doubt is that today’s capitalism on steroids, if you will, globalized capitalism increases national wealth, but undermines family and individual security which will produce a great flinch from free economics.

Oh, George, it's not capitalism on steroids. It's capitalism without sensible regulations to make it work. Free trade and globalization are not evil per se. They require the similar kinds of sensible regulations and safety nets that the economies of nations do.

Every time things seem to be going well, you laissez faire folks come along to argue that everything would be just that much better if we abandoned all the human-made rules of the game -- that overall wealth would increase and trickle down, people would all earn more and pay less taxes, and that government-regulated or -run programs would work even better than they are working if private people ran it in pursuit of profit. And like a gambling addict who doesn't know to quit when he's ahead, people fall for it, and vote you guys into office.

Thereupon, you dismantle everyone's benefits and concentrate wealth in the hands of a few who already had more than enough and who proceed to steal everything in sight and maximize their own profits at the expense of everything around them -- human rights, national security, and even their own long-run best interests. Which then leads those who have been hurt to contemplate whether the French Revolutionaries had the right idea about rich people, prompting someone on the left to try to figure out a way to balance the powers that be against the people's best interests, reinstall regulations, add one or two new government programs, and save the country from itself.

Lather, rinse repeat.

why didn't somebody ask will why he didn't serve in the military during the vietnam era?

How is it that people like Will are brought back time and time and time again - and every time it's nothing but lies. He can't even pretend to know what he's talking about. Why do they let him get away with this?

He opens his mouth and the sound that spews forth is an unending, pitiful, unintelligible whine. How can people stand it? I don't know if there's a bigger crybaby out there.

Why is the American public subjected to the same CRAP from this brain-dead partisan asshole every single frickin' week?
*

redcat @ 37:

why didn't somebody ask will why he didn't serve in the military during the vietnam era?

couldn't see to well through those rose colored glasses

Another BAD Hairpiece guy with another BAD piece of information skewed into some kind of reasonable (only to Republicans) explanation to bolster the view from the rich of how GOOD we normal folks have it.

Dr. (terrorist fist jab) Matt @ 21:

Hey, George, tell us again about that off-shore drilling by China.....come on, tell us once more....we need a litmus test for your "credibility".

He must have gotten his "facts" from the Green Monster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7JN7z2cUg

And they pay George Will to spread his swill. George has been disassociated from reality for years. That's what happens when you live in a bubble. Our economy doing well, what universe are these people from? The comment on our dollar should be a clue, of course we can sell our products overseas, those poor countries have vaults full of worthless greenbacks that they are trying to dump. This is an exact case of why I have stopped watching these supposed Sunday morning news programs. I have not seen a real American on one for years. Think the scum would invite me? Nah, I might embarrass them by pointing out some of the inconvenient facts that they always leave out. Doing better now than 2000, how the hell can we get these people off the air. I already don't buy products from their advertisers.

The Sheep better look up soon and quit following the asshole in front of them, case in point, George Will's asshole.

35 Articles of Impeachment on the Table. Pick one up read it aloud. 34 Articles of Impeachment on the Table.................

Trittydi @ 38:

How is it that people like Will are brought back time and time and time again - and every time it's nothing but lies. He can't even pretend to know what he's talking about. Why do they let him get away with this?

He opens his mouth and the sound that spews forth is an unending, pitiful, unintelligible whine. How can people stand it? I don't know if there's a bigger crybaby out there.

Why is the American public subjected to the same CRAP from this brain-dead partisan asshole every single frickin' week?
*

Corporate network execs love providing an outlet for rich-man's propaganda. They figure it it's parroted enough the working-class neanderthals will fall in line and treat scumbag politicians that cater to the rich and corporations as friends of the little folk.

Take that silver spoon out of your ass Georgy boy. I've had enough of this "it will pass" attitude.

Karen @ 36:

Will:

We’ve always assumed that the very process—the dynamic market capitalism—produces increased national wealth simultaneously produced increased family and individual security.

Whaddaya mean "we," White Man?

Now the doubt is that today’s capitalism on steroids, if you will, globalized capitalism increases national wealth, but undermines family and individual security which will produce a great flinch from free economics.

Oh, George, it's not capitalism on steroids. It's capitalism without sensible regulations to make it work. Free trade and globalization are not evil per se. They require the similar kinds of sensible regulations and safety nets that the economies of nations do.

Every time things seem to be going well, you laissez faire folks come along to argue that everything would be just that much better if we abandoned all the human-made rules of the game -- that overall wealth would increase and trickle down, people would all earn more and pay less taxes, and that government-regulated or -run programs would work even better than they are working if private people ran it in pursuit of profit. And like a gambling addict who doesn't know to quit when he's ahead, people fall for it, and vote you guys into office.

Thereupon, you dismantle everyone's benefits and concentrate wealth in the hands of a few who already had more than enough and who proceed to steal everything in sight and maximize their own profits at the expense of everything around them -- human rights, national security, and even their own long-run best interests. Which then leads those who have been hurt to contemplate whether the French Revolutionaries had the right idea about rich people, prompting someone on the left to try to figure out a way to balance the powers that be against the people's best interests, reinstall regulations, add one or two new government programs, and save the country from itself.

Lather, rinse repeat.

A comment:

Will is a predator - much like Reagan and Arnold. Earlier I quoted him as having said republicans would accept unequal outcome to protect freedom. The truth is they are predators and with the 'freedom' to predate they can all but guarantee unequal outcome - which is in the end the point to these people.

You are lecturing a predator - breath you will never get back.

I think a good question to ask anyone running for public office is What's the average household income of your constituents, or the country? (I don't expect any candidate to give an answer that's bang-on; the question is just intended to gauge how "in touch" with reality the candidate is. If he/she says the average household is pulling in $120,000 annually, and you're in Marshall, Minn., then he/she fails.)
It's also a good question to ask George Will of those "average Americans" he pretends to know so well.

Ruthless People @ 41:

Dr. (terrorist fist jab) Matt @ 21:

Hey, George, tell us again about that off-shore drilling by China.....come on, tell us once more....we need a litmus test for your "credibility".

He must have gotten his "facts" from the Green Monster http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-7JN7z2cUg

All the little reich-wing twits lined up to spew out that same factless rant....no one is surprised,

Thanks for the clip. I haven't seen that one yet,

Vincennes @ 1:

George Will is better off today than he was eight years ago. Rain or shine, recession or boom, he gets paid well. In fact, most of the folks you see on these TV news shows _ commentators and guests, for the most part _ do very well salary-wise. They are addressing an issue that really doesn't affect their bottom line as much as it does "average" Americans.

I think there should be a show asking these folks how much money they make, how much they spend a day on items, what expenses are covered by their companies, if the economy has affected them. It would be nice to see where they are in the pecking order before commenting on other less-economically well off folks, like myself.

George Will, what do you make?

George Willl, another member of the "I got mine, fuck you" class.

If you ever go to the ball park this year, you might be one of the suckers paying 80 dollars for a rotten seat, but the majority go on a Corp junket. In others words they are the real freeloaders they just call them perks.

HEAVEN is a BLUE STATE

HELL is a RED STATE

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25106423/

CEO pay climbs higher despite slow economy
Median compensation package in 2007 was almost $8.4 million

Interesting reading.

And I did find this very interesting.
Here's a look at the 10 highest-paid CEOs for 2007 at Standard & Poor’s 500 companies based on calculations by The Associated Press.

1. John Thain, Merrill Lynch, $83.1 million

2. Leslie Moonves, CBS Corp., $67.6 million

3. Richard Adkerson, Freeport-McMoran Copper & Gold Inc., $65.3 million

4. Bob Simpson, XTO Energy Inc., $56.6 million

5. Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., $53.9 million

6. Kenneth Chenault, American Express Co., $51.7 million

7. Eugene Isenberg, Nabors Industries Ltd., $44.6 million

8. John Mack, Morgan Stanley, $41.7 million

9. Glenn Murphy, Gap Inc., $39.1 million

10. Ray Irani, Occidental Petroleum Corp., $34.2 million

— The Associated Press

George Will couldn't even keep a straight face when he said "...the rich will INVESTS and...er...create jobs..."

That old saw doesn't work anymore.

I wonder what the pinched, constipated facial expression of George Will would look like if he somehow managed to extract that stick up his ass?

exports have risen???

americans are better off now than 8 years ago??

will hasnt spoken to any of my clients....they are all hurting, and as a result, i am hurting

it was voodoo economics in 80, its voodoo economics 28 years later

we are witnessing the end results of the reagan revolution

Here is the world according to George Will: You don't really have cancer, that pain in your lungs is just your imagination. You are better off today than you were 8 years ago because I said so.

Uncle Joe Hussein Mccarthy @ 55:

exports have risen???

americans are better off now than 8 years ago??

will hasnt spoken to any of my clients....they are all hurting, and as a result, i am hurting

it was voodoo economics in 80, its voodoo economics 28 years later

we are witnessing the end results of the reagan revolution

i hope your right if i hear his name come out of romneys or mccains mouth any more i will puke

Uncle Joe Hussein Mccarthy @ 55:

exports have risen???

americans are better off now than 8 years ago??

will hasnt spoken to any of my clients....they are all hurting, and as a result, i am hurting

it was voodoo economics in 80, its voodoo economics 28 years later

we are witnessing the end results of the reagan revolution

Correct. I predicted the record deficits when I learned of George Bush's tax plans. How you may ask, since I am not a economist? Simple. I remember my history from 20 years ago. "Trickle down" "Supply side" "Voodoo" economics is a smokescreen for rich people to get tax cuts and put more and more of the burden on the ever shrinking middle class. If you believe in this philosophy and you are not rich, it's like committing slow suicide.

Vincennes @ 1:

George Will is better off today than he was eight years ago. Rain or shine, recession or boom, he gets paid well. In fact, most of the folks you see on these TV news shows _ commentators and guests, for the most part _ do very well salary-wise. They are addressing an issue that really doesn't affect their bottom line as much as it does "average" Americans.

I think there should be a show asking these folks how much money they make, how much they spend a day on items, what expenses are covered by their companies, if the economy has affected them. It would be nice to see where they are in the pecking order before commenting on other less-economically well off folks, like myself.

George Will, what do you make?

You can't ask that question. That's class warfare....how dare you!!

Eat the rich.

Long Tooth @ 54:

I wonder what the pinched, constipated facial expression of George Will would look like if he somehow managed to extract that stick up his ass?

That's it - you've nailed it! The single most perfect word in the WORLD to describe George Will.

CONSTIPATED.

Thanks!!
*

BennyP @ 60:

Eat the rich.

Yummy!

#20

I agree with you. What we need is redistribution of wealth.

The american worker's productivity has increased every year, but wages have barely risen in the last 35 tears. Where does the benefit go?

"According to a recent report from United for a Fair Economy, the average executive made 40 times as much as a worker in 1980, but by 2005 made more than 400 times as much as a worker."

This means that the executive makes considerably more in one day than a worker makes in an entire year.

So, going back to my opening statement, we need to redistribute wealth according to whoever earned it. But it seems like all the increase in productivity benefits go to the top, and that reflects exactly what Democrats are saying.

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=woe_is_the_american_worker

http://www.ombwatch.org/article/articleview/3583/1/180?TopicID=1

Exports are doing well, Yes, yes they are because the FED has turned up the printing press devaluing our dollar. It is causing countries who depend on our importation of their goods to have a difficult time. When those countries turn up the printing presses on their currency to become more competitive with the US, you can expect Bernanke to open the throttle on printing money and then we can say hello to hyperinflation. We will be in a new great depression.

George Will is short sighted

Proud2bHumble @ 62:

BennyP @ 60:

Eat the rich.

Yummy!

Too fatty. Bad for my cholesterol. And there's no good wine to match.

I've never been able to stand that creepy, asexual little toad.

Ruthless People @ 31:

George Will is Ayn Rand with a bad hair piece and glasses.

Good one. Will is a pompous pseudo-intellectual. His 4th year poli-sci demeanour is laughable. Oh, he's pretentious and a toady.

PassedPawn @ 43:

Trittydi @ 38:

How is it that people like Will are brought back time and time and time again - and every time it's nothing but lies. He can't even pretend to know what he's talking about. Why do they let him get away with this?

He opens his mouth and the sound that spews forth is an unending, pitiful, unintelligible whine. How can people stand it? I don't know if there's a bigger crybaby out there.

Why is the American public subjected to the same CRAP from this brain-dead partisan asshole every single frickin' week?
*

Corporate network execs love providing an outlet for rich-man's propaganda. They figure it it's parroted enough the working-class neanderthals will fall in line and treat scumbag politicians that cater to the rich and corporations as friends of the little folk.

"I am gross and perverted
I'm obsessed n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you cant look away
I make you think I'm delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin out
From your TV set.."

"I'm the Slime", Over-Nite Sensation, Frank Zappa and the Mothers of Invention @1973

If Democrats had any kind of brains for the most important part of contemporary politics - electioneering, of course - they would run videotape of George Will's infuriatingly pompous claim that he will tell the "average American" that he's better off now than he was eight years ago on its own 24/7 network. If elitism has a face, it is George Will's self-satisfied mug with a wide-open mouth full of foaming diarrhea. Is there anything more elitist than somebody who comes on national tv and tells a large group of people he's never met that their dissatisfaction with the economy and their place in it is simply a work of their imaginations? Here's what George Will actually said, courtesy of Elitist Bullshit Translator: "The average American is better off than he was eight years ago, he's just too stupid to realize it." That is the one and only thing that can be construed from Will's closing statement in that clip.

If Barack Obama is elitist for identifying - some would say misidentifying - the average small-town American's dissatisfaction with and knee-jerk reactions to the faultering economy, how elitist is George Will for telling the average American that he doesn't even have the right to his dissatisfaction in the first place because he just doesn't understand that he's better off than he was eight years ago? There is simply nothing more elitist than this type of statetment, and the Democrats would be wise to point out this type of elitism as often as possible.

Peter G @ 65:

Proud2bHumble @ 62:

BennyP @ 60:

Eat the rich.

Yummy!

Too fatty. Bad for my cholesterol. And there's no good wine to match.

They come with their own whine...

Watched a similar discussion on CNN the other day. A White House economist was saying practically the same thing. He said that the biggest help would be to make Bush's tax cuts permanent, because if they go away it will be a terrible burden on everyone. Keeping them will fix everything.

Problem is, they don't expire until 2011 and the help is needed now. The interviewer didn't seem to know this...at least he didn't correct the WH eco guy.

This just pisses me off. I'm trying to make it and some guy living comfortably tells me I'm better off than I was 8 years ago. If I told him what I'd been through he'd walk away because I was confusing the issue.

What's trickling down our backs aint supply-side theory George.

" Biff " Will theeeeee so called " Intellectual " is nothing but a fountain of bullshit. Incredible how far out of touch these " high society " bubble boys are . I am no fan of Stalin but I find myself fantasizing more and more these days about a purge in this country , if only I were the decider ! Oh well , one can dream .

Which ever world George Will lives in it is not the real one.

George Will is lying, he knows he is lying, and he cares not in the least that the average American knows he is lying. He is the type of person who will tell the barista who is making his coffee that the working poor is a myth, and smiles smugly as he walks away with his coffee after not giving he a tip. If he knew what was good for himself, George Will should hope Barack Obama is elected president, because America couldn't ender a 3rd Bush term.

Ghostwolf @ 76:

He is the type of person who will tell the barista who is making his coffee that the working poor is a myth, and smiles smugly as he walks away with his coffee after not giving he a tip.

Without giving her a tip.

What a fatuous, willfully ignorant bastard. Case in point: Will's statement that houses are worth an average of 1/3 more than they were 10 years ago.

EVEN IF TRUE, that's misleading as hell:

1) It ignores inflation. An asset that has only increased in value by 33% in 10 years has risen at a compound rate of about 2%. That's about equal to the official, understated rate of inflation (CPI). AT BEST, that means the real value of housing has gone nowhere.

2) It ignores how much equity homeowners hold in their houses. It's LESS than it was 10 years ago, because of refinancing incentives, years of artificially low interest rates, subprime loans, reduced or eliminated lending standards, and all the other scandalous gimmicks that Will damned well knows about but chooses to ignore.

3) It ignores rising mortgage rates, it ignores rates resetting from cheapo teaser rates to market rates (destroying equity instantly), it ignores the millions of foreclosures that are happening right now.

I'd love to hear Will tell someone whose equity has gone negative that he should be happy his house is worth more than it was 10 years ago. Asshole.

My 401K lost 5,700 last quarter. Man, I SO feel great about the state of the economy.

ronhohn @ 63:

#20

I agree with you. What we need is redistribution of wealth.

We have been undergoing a re-distribution of wealth for approximately the last 30 years. Unfortunately, all of it has been going to the very richest. The Bush Administration has taken it upon themselves to accelerate the process. The Bush Administration's goal of smaller government represents a tax cut for the rich and elimination of ordinary safeguards and social services the majority of Americans have come to depend on. Like most of their other attempts to screw the average American, they dressed this pig up with the deceptive doublespeak of "individual responsiblity" which in everyday language would translate to "don't expect any help form this governement, sucker". Seems that George has conveniently forgotten to factor in the volume of imports creating one of the largest trade deficits ever. I wonder who George thinks will pay the bill for the Iraq War, which Bush has so generously put on the cuff in order to finance his tax cuts?

I would be wealthy on bizarro world as my big lump of coal is quite valuable there.
In reality world though, I throw my lump of coal at G. Will.

Doug @ 2:

The only way I'm better off this year is that I don't have to look forward to George Bush being in office in 2009.

Amen to that!

I always love the "average" defense. Will says "the average American home is worth 1/3 more"

Between me and Bill Gates, we have an "average" net worth of $40 Billion dollars.

When you lump together the growing number of obscene of giant mansion estates of the wealthy with the millions of people whose $200,000 homes have lost 25% of their value in the past year, you'll still see an "average" rise in overall home value.

I refuse to believe Will is too stupid to know this. He's being deliberately misleading and knows it.

Annoyed Canuck @ 78:

What a fatuous, willfully ignorant bastard. Case in point: Will's statement that houses are worth an average of 1/3 more than they were 10 years ago.

EVEN IF TRUE, that's misleading as hell:

Another problem with Georgies' fantasy is that it ignores the problems of the people who bought houses at the height of the craziness with no equity and then watched their home's value drop soon afterward. If you bought your house in 1999-2000 and didn't load up on HELOC debt, yeah you're better off now. But someone who bought in 2005,2006, not so much.

Middle class?? What middle class?

These Ayn Rand jackasses really need to go fuck themselves. Money, money, money talks, and it's always complete bullshit. Turn off the TV America.

I was talking to my aunt the other day, and she said how she had been a Republican for many many years and is voting for Obama, and that we need "a little change." I said that the republican party was hijacked by people who aren't even really conservatives for a long time. They are greedball pirates who only see the government as a way to further there money-making agendas, and that anyone who thinks they are voting for red-blooded america when they vote Republican is delusional and being duped. She had no response. I wasn't trying to insult her, and she wasn't insulted. The conversation then turned to the media, and how I thought a punch of overpaid, out-of-touch ass hacks spewing there point-of-view on what America is, is not only a joke, but incrediably counter-productive to improving America. Again, she completely agreed.

Obama will win, let's just hope he's worth his damn salt.

"I'm cooncentrating, on the wrong side of the law
From the creator
of this beautiful strip mall
A decimator of the cinder block world
A ventilator of the rallying call
One by one I take them on
this will be my revolucion
One by one they will be gone
I will not sleep til it be done

Basso profundo
yeah everybody knows
todo el mundo
it's shaking the windows
the tide is shifting
everybody says NO MAS
the boat is drifting
from the ones who control us

They never have enough they never have enough they
never have enough
the money is all that they love
They never have enough they never have enough they
never have enough
the money is all that they love

All the world is for the taking
Just forget the heart you're breaking
Is this love that you are making?
Or is it a deal?"

-Devotchka

Does this asshat even know the difference between export and import?

Houses are worth more, perhaps, but no one has paid for theirs, so they're further in debt. They took the extra mortgage money (above the value of the house) to buy more crap too. Their plastic is maxed out as well (all 20 cards).

my computer is faster than it was 8 years ago. But everything is more expensive. The time i save surfing doesn't make up for the rise in prices.

ConcernedCanuck @ 52:

And I did find this very interesting.
Here's a look at the 10 highest-paid CEOs for 2007 at Standard & Poor’s 500 companies based on calculations by The Associated Press.

1. John Thain, Merrill Lynch, $83.1 million

2. Leslie Moonves, CBS Corp., $67.6 million

3. Richard Adkerson, Freeport-McMoran Copper & Gold Inc., $65.3 million

4. Bob Simpson, XTO Energy Inc., $56.6 million

5. Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., $53.9 million

6. Kenneth Chenault, American Express Co., $51.7 million

7. Eugene Isenberg, Nabors Industries Ltd., $44.6 million

8. John Mack, Morgan Stanley, $41.7 million

9. Glenn Murphy, Gap Inc., $39.1 million

10. Ray Irani, Occidental Petroleum Corp., $34.2 million

— The Associated Press

Imagine that poot stiff at #10: only $34.2 million. What a low-life. :)

Mugsy @ 83:

I always love the "average" defense. Will says "the average American home is worth 1/3 more"

Between me and Bill Gates, we have an "average" net worth of $40 Billion dollars.

When you lump together the growing number of obscene of giant mansion estates of the wealthy with the millions of people whose $200,000 homes have lost 25% of their value in the past year, you'll still see an "average" rise in overall home value.

I refuse to believe Will is too stupid to know this. He's being deliberately misleading and knows it.

-------------

Both political wings are misleading and know it.

The economy grows on the expansion of debt.

The FED is running REAL interest rates below the rate of inflation. Thus oil is now 138 dollars a barrel. The FED ran REAL rates bleow inflation after the stock bubble burst in 2000. A housing bubble was the result. Now everyone is complaining about price inflation. Have the poliititians of either party been telling you this? Of coarse not. It is not in their interest to tell you the truth.

This credit bubble has to deflate. The only way around it is to actually print money, not credit. That would be hyperinflationary, however. If you think prices are bad now, wait until hyperinflation sets in. There is no good outcome. All booms end in a bust. The FED is trying to prevent that from happening by running negative real rates to stimulate the economy. They are stimulating price inflation. Damned if they do and damned if they don't. That is why bubbles deflate- that which built them up, eventually works to bring them down.
Lower rates built the stock bubble, but once the bubble burst, even lower rates could not get the nasdaq back to its old high. The money went into a new bubble. Now that bubble is deflating, despite FED rates having dropped below inflation. But price inflation is bubbling up.

Every boom ends in a bust- no exceptions. Neither political wing will tell you that. They will only tell you that the policies of the other party are a failure.

The 120 year Kress cycle is pointing down and will bottom in 2014. All else is political BS.
It will not matter which party is in power as the bottom falls out of the cycle after the turn of the decade.

Edwin Hussein (a boo$h booer) @ 90:

ConcernedCanuck @ 52:

And I did find this very interesting.
Here's a look at the 10 highest-paid CEOs for 2007 at Standard & Poor’s 500 companies based on calculations by The Associated Press.

1. John Thain, Merrill Lynch, $83.1 million

2. Leslie Moonves, CBS Corp., $67.6 million

3. Richard Adkerson, Freeport-McMoran Copper & Gold Inc., $65.3 million

4. Bob Simpson, XTO Energy Inc., $56.6 million

5. Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman Sachs Group Inc., $53.9 million

6. Kenneth Chenault, American Express Co., $51.7 million

7. Eugene Isenberg, Nabors Industries Ltd., $44.6 million

8. John Mack, Morgan Stanley, $41.7 million

9. Glenn Murphy, Gap Inc., $39.1 million

10. Ray Irani, Occidental Petroleum Corp., $34.2 million

— The Associated Press

Imagine that poot stiff at #10: only $34.2 million. What a low-life. :)

--------------------

How much of it came out of the shareholders pockets?

The blockhead Reslug liar, Georgie, is soooooo totally out of touch with the middle class and poor and just refuses to admit it

Doug @ 2:

The only way I'm better off this year is that I don't have to look forward to George Bush being in office in 2009.

Dougy - YOU ARE SO RIGHT> Good riddance ..

The larger issue, just WTF is this (see above for complete descriptions of this out of touch opinion maker) guy doing on what is billed as the only mainstream Dem show?

Check the rest of the panels too. Why aren't there REAL Lefties on this show?

Voting and Media

Voting and Media

Voting and Media

Voting and Media

Voting and Media

JaimeFuffufnik @ 24:

The show should be called "5 out of touch windbags discuss the topics of the day"

Yep! I wonder how much money these so called experts are making to keep the American public uninformed.

The only thing more empty than the rhetoric of Will is the morality of his ilk.

I think it's awesome that everyone is skewering G Will and the Republicans and Dubya AND the punditocracy. But, please don't put Robert Reich in there. He stands out as one awfully smart dude who not only understands the plight of the average joe/jane, he's been fighting for us, too. Just didn't want the one noble guy to get thrown under the bus with the rest...cheers!

George Will is just like George Bush - unable to admit he is wrong.

From his days in the YAF he decided Republicans were correct - and nothing in fact or proof otherwise will change his mind. He will twist the facts like taffy to soothe himself into complacency. I'll learn how to knit if I can sit in the front row when these guys go on trial.

C'mon, George Will is one of the best at his craft that I've ever read: clever, great knowledge of the history of his field, excellent analysis of the current situation, easily one of the greatest sportswriters of our time...what the hell anyone is doing asking him about politics or economics is beyond me, but for baseball, goooOOOO WILL!

Yes, I'm so much better off since I filed bankruptcy last December; then, less than 3 months later, ended up with over $12,000 in debt because I needed major surgery and didn't have health insurance. I guess my annual trip to Italy will have to be shortened by a few weeks.

Karen @ 36:

Will:

We’ve always assumed that the very process—the dynamic market capitalism—produces increased national wealth simultaneously produced increased family and individual security.

Whaddaya mean "we," White Man?

Now the doubt is that today’s capitalism on steroids, if you will, globalized capitalism increases national wealth, but undermines family and individual security which will produce a great flinch from free economics.

Oh, George, it's not capitalism on steroids. It's capitalism without sensible regulations to make it work. Free trade and globalization are not evil per se. They require the similar kinds of sensible regulations and safety nets that the economies of nations do.

Every time things seem to be going well, you laissez faire folks come along to argue that everything would be just that much better if we abandoned all the human-made rules of the game -- that overall wealth would increase and trickle down, people would all earn more and pay less taxes, and that government-regulated or -run programs would work even better than they are working if private people ran it in pursuit of profit. And like a gambling addict who doesn't know to quit when he's ahead, people fall for it, and vote you guys into office.

Thereupon, you dismantle everyone's benefits and concentrate wealth in the hands of a few who already had more than enough and who proceed to steal everything in sight and maximize their own profits at the expense of everything around them -- human rights, national security, and even their own long-run best interests. Which then leads those who have been hurt to contemplate whether the French Revolutionaries had the right idea about rich people, prompting someone on the left to try to figure out a way to balance the powers that be against the people's best interests, reinstall regulations, add one or two new government programs, and save the country from itself.

Lather, rinse repeat.

Trade, or rather "fair trade" is not inherently bad, but so-called "free trade" is simply a race to the bottom. Externalize costs- pollution. wages, working conditions, internalize more profits. Globalization is simply a euphemism for "shut up and take what we give you or we'll send your job to China or India". The difference between regulated and unregulated capitalism is like the difference between the NFL and the XFL. Which is why Will loves baseball.

Republican Paper Dreams

On paper, the Republican plan may work. However, when it is applied, it falls short of what the people would call a "working plan." Paper planning is a very deceptive trait of the Republican politician. Throughout the years, it has fooled many in the Republican ranks, many media evaluators, but has come up short to the many everyday people it affects.

Every argument, every political issue, and every reality that truly matters have been fooled by the Republican's ability to make everything look good on paper. We need to throw their paper planning in their face and tell them to come up with something that meet the needs of the people. They can start with gas prices.

Joseph

I remember an interview with former Minnesota. Gov. Jessy Ventura. He was asked if he could go back and be Gov. again would he do anything different. He replied simply, "I'd smack George Will in the head. In fact if I ever see him again That's just what I will do."

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