Three California counties to locals: No marriage for you
By Steve Benen Tuesday Jun 17, 2008 1:40pmI’ve long wondered what, exactly, opponents of same-sex marriage believe will happen if gay couples have the same right to marry as straight couples. Several years ago, I recall Rick “Man on Dog” Santorum telling TV preacher Pat Robertson, “[T]he consequence is very clear. Marriage loses its significance. People will stop getting married. Homosexuals will not get married; heterosexuals will stop getting married. And that to me is the real threat to the American family and to the culture generally.”
Now, this quote has always stood out for me because I’d really like to meet the straight person who believes, “I planned to marry the person I love, but I’ve decided not to. If gays can marry, it’s just not worth it.” That, I assumed, was the only way for Santorum’s argument to make any sense.
As it turns out, there’s another way Santorum could have been right.
June 17 marks the date that gay and lesbian couples can marry legally in California, following a landmark ruling by the state’s Supreme Court in May that struck down the ban on same-sex marriage. The day will be marked by joyous celebrations and eager couples earning a right they have waited years to obtain.
Yet, the occasion will also be punctuated by the division it creates throughout the state.... [T]he Butte County clerk-recorder issued a June 11 news release saying her office will stop performing wedding ceremonies altogether — for gay and heterosexual couples. The Kern County clerk issued a June 4 release that she would do the same.
Calaveras county has decided to follow Butte’s and Kern’s lead, and will also stop performing marriages altogether.
It never occurred to me that conservatives would actually find a way to make marriages between gay couples affect marriages between straight couples. Kudos to their right-wing, hate-filled creativity!
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Well, if their job is to marry couples, and they refuse to do that, FIRE THEM!!!
How stupid does this have to get?
Well, if you know anything about California, then you know that those states are the farmland area. The California bible Belt.
Jesus Cristo. What can be said for morons like Santorum?
But he's totally right, I was gonna get married tomorrow, but why bother? Damn gay people.
Wow, self fullfilling prophecy. Santorum was right /sarcasm.
I was watching CNN and one of the "women" featured on "Robin Meade's Morning Express" said that "she" and "her partner" were upholding God's Law.
I wonder which one she is referring to -- the one about "an abomination"? Or another one?
I can't seem to find in the Bible where God made a law for gays to marry each other.
Can anyone help me out?
Obama would support their decision not to wed them.
http://www.towleroad.com/2008/06/as-ca-legalizes.html
fear and hate, that's all they have.
but that's how jeebus would want it.
Without a doubt there will be legal challenges on this.
*
Getting gay married (again) in Santa Clara county soon, wish us luck.
Fire the workers exactly. "Oh you won't do your job? Hmmm I guess we don't have to pay you then." F*&^$% right wing nut jobs. Personally I have a hard time with companies that pollute the air, wipe out natural resources but you know what, I do my job because that's what I'm hired to do. If you don't want to prescribe birth control then DON'T BECOME A PHARMACIST. If gay marriage is against your belief system and you work a job where you have to register gay marriages, FIND ANOTHER JOB SHIT HEAD! The world doesn't revolve around your beliefs contrary to your narcissistic maniacal ego.
Let the lawsuits begin! These assholes and their bigotries should be challlenged!
$10 says the Butte County local high school mascot name is the Pirates, because that's just how irony works.
By the way, there's the nuance...Santorum said if gays marry, straights won't want to get married...that's hardly the same as a few bigots in charge not allowing straights or gays to marry! Either way, fuck them!
I live in Butte County......right-wing conservative redneck heaven or, from my perspective, hell.
And if heteros stop getting married, having children, and indoctrinating them in accordance with , where will future tithings come from? This is a CATASTROPHE!!!
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
There is no law in the bible that says that gays can marry. Nor is there any law in the bible that permits coronary bypass surgery; neither does the buybull tell you how to pass a driver's test. The buybull is a collection of myths, and this country is founded on the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - which were recently shredded by fascists.
They're finally reducing Big Government.
SweettP2063 @ 14:
I know it's cost prohibitive (I have no hope of owning a home in SF proper), but seriously: a fucking great city to live in. Or many other parts of the Bay Area. Whatever! Get your ass out here!
Oops - "(religion of choice)" dropped out of that last sentence.
Actually, I'm (sort of) related to the county clerk-recorder for Butte county, and she's a really nice lady. Sadly, I guess she felt strongly enough about this that she's just going to stop doing all marriages (not her entire job, by the way). It sucks, but my guess is that given the conservative bent of the county most folks there will approve of it.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
God's law was to love one another...unless you can think of a better way, what's better than marrying the person you love most and want to spend the rest of your life with?
and they think that is going to work cause......?
Mickxotic @ 16:
"Buybull". Hah!
The only way gay marriages can affect straight marriages is if the straight guy gets drunk and and beats up the gay couple and ends up in jail and then his wife leaves his stupid redneck ass.
Mickxotic @ 16:
Hey, I like that ... "BuyBull" can I use it in my posts. one word can say so much.
Same thing happened with the Loving case. Local officials refused to marry inter-racial couples. I was investigating a murder case in Mississippi in 1993, and I had to go through some marriage records. The county clerk very kindly showed me the records room -- filled to the brim with black registers, and white registers -- literally --- black-colored registers recorded negro marriages and white-colored registers recorded caucasian marriages. The segregated registers went right up to the 1980s, and the registers after that were green, because they finally started performing inter-racial marriages. It was a real wake-up call, I can tell you -- it wasn't ancient history, it was very recent.... So I'm not surprised -- there will always be some very narrow people, jealously guarding their sacred way of life.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
It is written in the Old Testament that man should not lie with man, but women were not mentioned. Ergo, the Bible is covertly condoning women getting married through the sin of omission by not having a direct reference against it.
My point is this, people translate and twist the bible to their specific point of view. Most do it for nefarious reasons. I would not say that is the case here. Perhaps these two ladies really believe that their (they did not specify) God wants them to be together through the sanctity of marriage. I did not see the segment but from your description they did not mention the bible either.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
No, you are beyond help. Maybe you should find the part in the bibull that talks about loving your neighbor.
KYJurisDoctor,
I certainly hope you're no doctor. Bigotry and religiously based hatred have no place in that profession.
Perhaps "she" (why exactly did you put women in quotation marks? Are Lesbians not women now? God, you people are SICK) meant that in binding herself to one other human being for life, to sanctify their love, she was fulfilling God's wish that we don't run around willy nilly all over the place?
And by the way, this whole "God's Word" thing has always been funny to me since the "Word" you refer to was written by men, 2000 years ago, has been translated from one language to the next by MEN, edited by MEN, redacted by MEN, and twisted to serve the purposes of MEN. Any piece of God's Word that may or may not have been in there has been "telephoned" so many times that it's ridiculous.
Not to mention that the only thing you have is faith in order to convince yourself that the Bible isn't the rantings of a bunch of delusional people. If someone went around with this book today, having written it yesterday, proclaiming it was the word of God, and not having the benefit of hundreds of years of the Roman Catholic Church being extremely powerful, would be branded a lunatic and committed to the nearest psychiatric facility.
P.S. By MEN I mean humankind generally and also that women haven't really had much say in the Bible.
P.P.S Do you remember any of Jesus's words? Such as "Judge not lest ye be judged"? or "Love thy neighbor as yourself"? or "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth"? Could you please pay extra special attention to that one and be meek, stfu, and go away? If you can do that, an entire planet shall be your reward, so sayeth the Jeebus (supposedly, depending upon what edition of the Bible you read.)
Fanon @ 28:
Truth.
rebmarks @ 26:
It'll get fixed eventually. Because, much as they may hate actually following the law, it IS the law and if they don't do it they get fired.
Needless to say, with the ballot initiative process so prevalent in CA, the RWNJ's have already already qualified a November initiative to ban gay marriage in CA. As I have said in the past, the way to galvanize the republican base and get them to the polls in Nov. is to add local initiatives to ballots that are anti gay, anti porn, anti choice, pro death or anti terror. This is one huge strategy the republicans will use in November.
BTW the CA initiative is 90% funded by groups in San Diego county, including $600,000 from the Hoehn family, who are owners of a huge chunk of the automotive dealerships in the county.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
Oh, by the way...I really don't give a shit about what the Bible, the Koran, the Torah or any other ancient bullshit scroll says--KEEP YOUR DAMN RELIGION OUT OF MY GOVERNMENT! If you want to believe in mythical sky fairies, that's your hang-up, but don't tell other law-abiding, tax paying American adults whom they can love, fuck or marry based on your 2000 year old fantasies! Hope that helps you out, buddy!
Is county clerk an elected position or a civil service position?
Funny how they get their panties twisted into a know over gay marriage, as being against God's will, yet they ignore divorce.
What part of "'til death does us apart" did you christian assholes did not get? Judging by Reagan, McCain, Giulliani, Limbaugh, Gingrich, et al... there was a lot not to get.
Christian Radicals: if you want to keep taxes out of your church, keep your church out of our tax paid institutions.
This is the issue that is going to put McCain in the White House: Fear of a Gay Planet.
I misquoted Mickxotic, though. buybull!!
If you get invited to a gay wedding and you don't want to go....
you can decline attendance politely on the RSVP.
This whole affair of not allowing gays to marry would be just fine..if
Divorce was illegal....and adulterers got the death penalty.
Now thats some dam sanctity preservation!
I would love to see the republicans try anything in CA. They can get their anti-gay base out to the polls as much as they want; it's not going win them the state or many seats in congress beyond the ones they already have here. And it REALLY pisses off the liberals around here.
Bonkers @ 12:
I don't think you quite get what California counties are... It's way, way too big to have "a local high school." Think "bigger than Rhode Island," not "Hazzard County." It doesn't actually boast any major towns that share a name with the state, either... More's the pity. ;)
That's just pedantry, though. More on topic... I'm from Kern, this is easily my least favorite thing my home... Strike that, birth county has done in ages.
I seem to recall many people here being overjoyed when San Francisco went rogue and started violating state laws.
Peter G @ 34:
Elected, I believe. Which is why those county clerks will get to keep their job unless there's a court case or unless someone higher up in the food chain axes them. The local populace (in Butte, anyway) supports this decision.
liberal traitor @ 29:
Considering the "Juris" part of the handle I'm betting we're dealing with a narrow-minded sanctimonious lawyer. Great qualities to have in the legal profession.
Hmm, maybe read the article. It doesn't say they won't give out marriage licenses to gay couples--it just says they won't perform ceremonies. I don't see the outrage.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
Ironically I found a bible where God made a law about not killing...
Oh, and I found a copy of the US Constitution where there is plenty of references about separation of church and state.
Marriage is a legal contract, and thus it is not ruled by religious beliefs and other superstitions. Gays are citizens and thus they deserve equal protection from the law, after all they pay taxes like you and me. If you don't like that you are free to pick up their tax tab then...
"I’ve long wondered what, exactly, opponents of same-sex marriage believe will happen if gay couples have the same right to marry as straight couples."
Don't you watch Drawn Together? Nazis will rise up riding dinosaurs as the Earth is consumed by fire.
I lived in Chico in the early to mid '80s and hated every minute of living there.
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 43:
If the KY in his name stands for KY! Actually, I think it probably stands for the jelly, since someone who so adamantly objects to homosexuals usually tend to be closeted queers themselves! I can't wait until Little Ricky Santorum gets caught some day!
First same-sex marriage performed in Butte county
Yeah, SF is a beautiful city. I moved to Butte County from Los Angeles and it's so quiet here. The noise in SF would drive me crazier than the noise did in LA. A big plus here is rent, half the cost than in LA, and where I am in the Sierra Nevada foothills there are lots of trees. Also, some hippies but many more rednecks.
:-)
Speaking of gay marriage
http://www.uclick.com/client/nyt/tt/
Wouldn't a non-gay marriage be a funeral?
CannibalPlanet @ 36:
Right, because a gold digger asshole who dumped his first wife for being too fat, even after she stood by him during his whole captivity, is completely bulletproof when it comes to the "sanctity" of matrimony. Right?
modday @ 41:
Unjust laws should not stand. Equality for all, or all are at risk.
LG @ 49:
In Butte county the proper marriage gift is KY Jelly.
I actually like this move. I don't believe our government should be in the marriage business anyway. Marriage is a religious convention and should not be recognized in the exact same way by our government. I understand the need for certain rights to be guaranteed to couples. That's where civil unions come in. Our "civil" government should issue "civil" unions. And with that, everyone should be happy. All civil unions whether they are between a man and a woman or a man and a man or a woman and a woman will be equal in the eyes of our rights-guaranteeing government.
Wow. They really are taking their ball and going home to mommy. Sometimes I wonder just how mature some adults are.
As a Gay-American all I can say is WOW. Never even considered the hatred could run so deeply.
Ok, I'll take my 2nd class citizenship now so these "people" can continue ramming their biblical views up my ass... since they don't want anything else going up there. Their own ass, as we know, is a difference story (hello, Ken Melhman, et. al.).
OT: NPR is now chewing over the pros & cons of HRC as VP - AGAIN. This is really annoying.
LG @ 44:
I was wondering about the giving out licenses part, I couldn't access the whole article. Yes, couples in these counties could be married somewhere else, (provided that the licenses are being given) but why should they have to be?
can we just start a new country already, and secede from the United States of Morons Who Live by Wedge Issues?
rebmarks @ 26:
Erm, that should read "scared way of life." Fixed it! (;>
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 43:
You give him too much credit, he just misspelled "janitor."
Is this what they call defending marriage? Throwing a childish tantrum that cuts off their lips to spite their mouthes?
Bonkers @ 12:
that's just f*cking funny.
@44 LG sez, "It doesn’t say they won’t give out marriage licenses to gay couples–it just says they won’t perform ceremonies."
That's an important point here. I don't know if performing ceremonies is a job requirement. Processing the license applications certainly is, and if any CA official stops doing that then their job should be on the line.
Personally, I think all the sanctimonious right-wing hypocrites should be willing to accept a law that makes divorce illegal before they utter a single word about gay marriages threatening "the sanctity of marriage". Put up or shut up.
I get so angry when my fellow African American friends repeat the disgusting anti-gay bigot talking points, completely ignoring the hateful historic link to their past dealings with these racist who clearly have a continuous need to hate somebody. Hiding behind the bible makes it even more heinous.
Hey bilhelm X,
Congrats and good luck!
Not a shock. Move away from the Cali coast and you may as well be in Alabama or Louisiana. It's like a whole different world...and one I'm happy to avoid. You gather together a bunch of white trash, mullet wearing, NASCAR cheering rednecks....and this is what you can expect.
This country is packed with knuckle draggers.
What a place.
Darth_Romney @ 48:
Works for me.....so what we've got here is a Well Lubricated Narrow-Minded Sanctimonious Lawyer. Well that would explain the post.
But seriously, I think we'd be well with the bounds of reason if we insisted that the biblical "condemnation" of homosexual behavior only be taken seriously if the biblical punishment for adulterous behavior be meted out to the McCains and the Giulianis.
Once the 4 of them have received the death penalty (as called for in the BuyBull), then we'll consider how to deal with those "nasty" gay people. Until then, how about all you Xtians just STFU and stay out of other people's personal business.
Thank you.
Nentuaby @ 40:
I get it. I get what counties are. I, uh, live in one, yeah? It was a joke done on the fly. Why you would waste time on that is funny to me.
Fanon @ 53:
In other words you think it's ok to break laws that you feel are unjust.
If I did the same thing there would be dead people all over town.
See: The Universal Life Church Monastery's (ulc.org) take on what the denial of gay rights can lead to...all because of our belief that God did not make Gays and notwithstanding gay animals...gay apes, dogs, birds, etc. God did not write the bible. Let’s deal with the truth as history, and the reality of behavioral studies. It's time to place the bible in the category of what it is… an epic of mans written history in search of a loving big brother. http://blog.themonastery.org/
Matthey Murray, the troubled teen who took his own life after fatally shooting members of Ted Haggard's New Life Church and one victim at the affiliated Youth With a Mission missionary training facility, reportedly outed himself to his mother.
According to the blog, Butterscotch:
Last summer, he wrote, "People like us are going to go to hell, according to Christians." He lists several reasons why. Reason number seven is bluntly stated, "I'm bisexual." In other postings, Murray wrote, "... I can never get a female date. I am at least able to get some male action."
Murray wrote that he told her, "Using drugs, alcohol and having gay sex, I'm just trying to do what any Christian pastor would do. At least I'm not doing meth like Ted Haggard."
Paul @ 60:
From a purely economic stand point, it makes sense to some of the more liberal states (read the West Coast, part of the Northern states and the north east) to simply secede.
(#59 Fanon beat me to it.)
Pretty funny. You're not going to play by my rules, so I'm taking my ball and going home. Are they 7?
That is wonderful.
The government SHOULD NOT be in the bond with your mate for Jesus business.
The government should be in the boring legal protections - civil union - business.
Let whatever church wants to do the god bless this union thing make their own decision about who - or what -they will unite. But the government shouldnt be involved.
Ban all 'marriages' performed/sanctioned by government. Restrict governments involvement to civil guarantees.
There are plenty of churches that will perform the 'god' thing for gays.
We should start a movement - no more government 'marriages' for anyone.
Screw (and fire) the bigots who wont marry people in the courthouse. Anyone can become a legally ordained minister for free through the Universal Life Church and perform marriages - for free if you choose. I was ordained in 1977 and have performed marriages before. If I lived in California, I would offer my services for free for any persons who were being illegally denied those services.
I agree that there should still be a follow-up to fire and/or prosecute any government representative who is not doing his/her job. And pharmacists too who won't fill scripts for birth control.
Chicken Hussein Little - NOT!! @ 43:
Funny you should bring that up. The CA Supreme Court is considering a case in which two OB/GYN MDs from my area (San Diego county) refused to treat a lesbian couple who wanted to have a child because they did not agree with same sex parents. A decision is due in August or September. If the MD's lose, it may end up in the SCOTUS.
Fine then. Stop having county courts perform "marriages," as that's a religious institution anyways. Courts should perform civil union ceremonies, and churches should perform marriages.
.
I'm still trying to figure out how "FROTHY FECAL" thinks that allowing me to marry will discourage me from getting married.
.
John @ 78:
Actually that's what happend in Butte county.
I guess some people are to lazy to look into these matters.
They'd rather just hate that which they know very little about.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
Sure I can help you out on this one. I believe they are referring to love. Jesus said that the highest of Gods laws is to love your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Therefore, if you believe that you yourself deserve marriage, so does your neighbor. That is God's Law, God's Highest law. If you want to go to Leviticus to talk about Gods law you are opening yourself up for a world of hurt because eating Lobster and Crab is also "an abomination" and wearing mixed blends of cloth is also against Gods laws as defined there. You can't pick and choose. It's Jesus, or Leviticus.
You don't wear poly-cotton blends do you? Because that would be just as much against "God's Law." Please tell me you don't touch any woman when she has her period because God's gonna be pissed if you do. . . .assuming you'e ready to go down the road of Leviticus that stopped being relevant to Christians 2000 years ago until the latest homophobe movement picked it up and ran with it again.
Disaffected One @ 76:
I'm a minister with the Church Of The Subgenius, and can perform similar services. The only difference is a Subgenius minister can only perform short-term marriages (complete with check-in and check-out times). Our 'sanctity of marriage' begins and ends with the honeymoon activities.
Exotic Blue Lensman @ 15:
Like this?
Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, “biblical”?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes…
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
What the fuck is the Bible but a goddamn bunch of pieces of paper?
Remember when Jesus told the multitude, "Nobody eats until the fags leave"?
Duncan @ 82:
Hey, I am too.
I just had some flying spaghetti monster for lunch.
All the garlic and onions is giving me some Big Bangs of hot gas.
Hope I don't accidentally create another Universe.
Peter G @ 34:
Most county clerks around the country are elected. They also swear an oath, upon taking office, to uphold the Constitutions of California and the United States. What the various county clerks have done is to say that they are going to violate the Constitutions of California and the United States by using a legal ploy (claiming budget issues) that affects everyone "equally". They are also saying, in their own fashion, I am a bigot and am going to use the "budget" to disguise it.
Duncan @ 82:
Great another jerkoff parody of Church Group.
Here is the Kern County Clerk's refusal to allow marriages, although some straight couples were allowed to marry in the counties office. Security was called, then the police. Click on video link (in the story) to see the video
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/19875439.html
Let us all make damn sure we understand exactly what is happening here.. It is not the ev-eee-illl immmoorrr-rill gays who want to marry each other that is cratoring the institution itself... And it is not the 'many legions' of straigth couples who would marry but who are suddenly just now saying, 'to hell with it because gays now have that right too'.... No, it is neither of these groups nor any imagining on the part of the rightwing freakshow as to what gays or straights might be thinking that is ruining the rights version of that institution... No, the sole reason marraiges are being stopped for 'ALL' couples is that the personnel working for the official institutions who do that ceremony or issue the licenses for said ceremony are refusing to do their damned jobs!!!! And they claim it's all about being against their morality, their religion, their whatever?? Offends their precious sensibillities???? Talk about working on creating a self fullfilling prophecy... What a crock... All I know is IF I totally refused to do my damned job, my ass would be out on the street....... Pouty little brats... Jesus, just issue the fucking licences and perform the freaking ceremony already.... Christ, given the shitty state of the world thanks to pious assholes just like these people trying to hide their bigotry behind some weakass morality excuse, this is sooo fucking old. Get the fuck over it.. Either we ALL have equal rights including the right to enhance or ruin our lives by intertwining them with someone we fall in love with, regardless of sex or how it looks to someone else.. or we don't... In which case all the rest of what we preach we're all about is just so much bullshit and everyone and everything else we're fighting and/or bitching about is a total waste of time and energy.......JD
modday @ 71:
Yeah, the only thing was that SF did not go "rogue" but I keep on enjoying your mental contortions... LOL.
Our laws and constitution are living documents. Unjust laws need to be challenged, period. That is how a society evolves.
You not being allowed to kill at will is not an unjust law... It is not in the same league as gay marriage, heck it is not even the same sport.
KYJurisDoctor @ 5:
Since you take the buybull (love it!) literally, I assume you believe in keeping sex slaves, selling your daughters as sex slaves, rape, killing men, women AND children, and countless other atrocities? Seriously, what's wrong with you?
John @ 78:
Absolutely.
All unions should be nothing more than civil unions in the eyes of the government. You want marriage - find a holy man. There are plenty of holy men that will unite/marry gays.
The government should consider this nothing more than a civil union rights issue and the government should get out of the god business.
Although the counties in question had different reasons for doing what they did, I do believe they did the correct thing. Abolish government god bonding ceremonies and stick to what the government was meant to do - equal protection of rights.
Liberal AND Proud @ 83:
I'd wager that "Man-On-Dog" Santorum would get a kick out of the last bit.
84 Saint Augustine
I believe it was in Deuteronomy a prohibition against men laying with another man as they would a woman, and maybe one other place.
But both were in the Old Testament.
No real mention of it in the New.
And marriage laws were until recently about the sharing and transfering of estates. If there was no real chance of progeny (as in gay and lesbian marriage without adoption), there was no need for the legal definition and protection of homosexual partnerships.
Butt of course there was always the problem of family members on one side or another cutting off a surviving homosexual partner of any inheritance.
The Dude @ 91:
As a matter of fact it did go rogue and I keep on enjoying your mental contortions. LOL
And as far as I'm concerned there are a number of people in this world that need killing.
According to you people that gives me the right to kill them.
Fuck this.
The lot of you are assholes.
Come fall Cal is going to outlaw gay marriage again and you atheist bitchs are going to help a Christian get elected President.
LOL
So can the voters of CA decide that Jews can or cannot exercise their contract law options there next or just the gays?
ysbaddaden @ 95:
Leviticus is the source of a lot of that sillyness. It is OT here but the old testament (Tanach) really has nothing to do with a christian in anycase.
Pathetic how the right wing conservatives think. Clearly they'd rather drive the bus backwards and pretend it's the same as letting everyone sit in the front.
I often wonder how hetero you can be when you swallow that much 'Santorum'.
kerplunk @ 89:
Great video, thanks.
Andy K Jong Il @ 85:
That one was too funny! Almost choked on my soda!
modday @ 88:
At least they don't wear funny hats like the Catholic bishops, or hold snakes while signing in tongues like Southern revivalist, or jump around like a trained monkey screaming in front of a multitude in the latest power-point hell megachurch AV extravaganza. And speaking of jerkoffs, how about those evangelical leaders getting blown off, maybe masturbation is not a sin if your meth dealer does it to you?
Forkbeard @ 20:
I guess they just don't approve of the process and rule of law...
Pronunciation: san-TOR-um
Function: noun
Etymology: Savage Love - 05/29/03
1. The frothy mix of lube and fecal matter that is sometimes the byproduct of anal sex.
Click to visit "Spreading Santorum.com" > http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/index2.html
Marriage is a sacred bond between a man and a woman, therefore if men are allowed to marry men and women to marry women we will refuse to marry anyone and we can all live in sin. LOL!!!!!
Here is more sickness from the Kern County Clerk. Click on the video in the story
http://www.bakersfieldnow.com/news/local/19875339.html
modday @ 96:
Pzzzz, is that the best you can do, copy my post and change a couple of word?
Monkey see monkey do, you are a perfect indoctrinated tool. LOL
Headline: Conservatives destroy marriage to prevent homosexuals from destroying marriage
The argument that straight couples are in anyway affected by this says more about straight couples than anyone else. You're serious point though, reminds me of a hilarious video that makes same argument.
I own rental property in Bakersfield. Going there is like being transported to Oklahoma, circa 1970. Not a place you want to raise a kid.
Andy K Jong Il @ 85:
Brilliant Andy! LOL
The Dude @ 107:
Also, it is soooooo Christian of you to want to kill people. Speaks volumes about you and your logical dissonance.
Dark hateful place some of your brains are...
modday @ 96:
Wow. What an idiot. You do your pastor proud, sport!
So can gay people get off being the treated the same as these clerks if they pull the same conscientious objection stuff & stop paying taxes because they believe the Constitution grants them equal rights -- and that includes marriage -- that they are currently denied?
Gay couples in longterm relationships are denied an income tax filing status of "married"; thus they bear a higher tax burden than married heterosexuals because they are taxed as "single" taxpayers. Gay couples are denied Social Security spousal survivorship rights, and pension survivorship rights. (These things will not change as the result of California gay marriage, by the way.)
Seems to me like heterosexuals get Special Rights currently, though I thought conservatives were against Special Rights.
I'll risk stating the obvious and say that Obama's comment that Bud quotes about the fairness of giving gay couples the right to inherit property or hospital visitation is just throwing a bone. These things alone do not constitute equality.
Modday:
Get your facts straight. We godless atheists are going to help elect Obama for president, who is in fact a communist Muslim. I know it's easy to think he's a Christian, but come on, pay attention ;)
In all seriousness, if you honestly feel there are lots of people in the world that need killing, go for it. Just don't be surprised when you're arrested and your "It's my beliefs" defense goes down in flames. Remember: gay-marrying doesn't kill anyone. Or, you know, actually negatively impact anybody. You and your shotgun will.
Dan @ 103:
Just my own experience, but most people don't approve of the process and the rule of law if it actively does something they don't like. But most of the time they get overruled, thankfully.
Oh yeah, nothing more criminal then a loving couple exchanging vows! We have 2 wars going on, enegy crisis, healthcare crisis, oh yeah, and don't forget the the flood. Why can't people live and let live?
Put Kern County Clerk Ann K. Barnett on your scumbag list.
modday @ 71:
Leaving aside for the moment that you think laws against murder are unjust let me address your first point.
It is our DUTY to break laws we think are unjust under the following conditions:
1. We do no harm to anyone in the process.
2. We do so openly and await arrest.
3. We conduct ourselves with dignity and have a rational reason we can argue in court.
4. We accept the consequenses of our actions.
modday @ 88:
Parody?!? Our church has every bit as much evidence for god as your church does.
modday @ 71:
No, It's OK to break the law when THE MAJORITY of people who are required to follow it feel it is unjust. That's called civil disobedience, like it was for slavery, woman's right to vote, civil rights, etc. If a community just blindly follows the law it isn't a free community any longer. This used to be a founding principle of America but most seem to have forgotten or they hide their motives behind a "threat" we all now face that makes radical things now perfectly reasonable.
I don't know you at all so it may not apply but I hear a lot of people who talk about marriage contradicting themselves these days. What ever happened to limited government and limited laws imposed on the people by the state? The state shouldn't have a say about what you put on your lawn but it should tell you what the values in your life are? What ever happened to self sufficiency and deregulation? Self sufficiency is good when it comes to financial security but we should blindly give our rights away for national security? Deregulation is good when it comes to the media, the mortgage industry, and AT&T but it's not good enough for the citizens rights when it comes to expressing love and managing their estates? How can people walk around with two things in their minds that are exactly the same yet take a different position on each?
How can we even have a conversation when this is where we have to start out?
kerplunk @ 118:
Hmmm, I couldn't find that grouping in the Hallmark Card Store.
Plisko @ 121:
I disagree. You do not need a majority. You need the courage of your convictions that a law is unjust and you need to conduct yourself as i stated in post #119.
modday, you have some issues, friend.
Nothing in Kern, Butte, and Calaveras Counties but a bunch of toothless meth-addicts. No story here folks.
Plisko @ 121:
Here here!
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
-Declaration of Independence
It's always been our duty to fight what is unjust....we may not need to "throw off such government" in this case, but we do need to throw off the laws.
No really, Why get married? That means petitioning an intrusive state for a license to live with someone. It's none of the state's fucking business.
Hell, that ain't creativity. You can teach slime mold to find its way through a maze.
modday @ 96:
I wonder how proud Jesus is to have people like you sharing your idea of his teachings and spreading what you think his values are.
fuckpolice @ 127:
Anything that ends in death or divorce is a BAD thing that should be avoided at all costs.
That posted wrong......
Agreed xoites!
I do believe that Modday has run off to wank at the juicy bits in The Song of Solomon, King David's epic love poem to his lover, Jonathan...right, Modday? Who died and made you the Genital Police?
fuckpolice @ 127:
Health Care is one reason. The right to be with your spouse as he or she is dying in the hospital is another. There may be others i am not aware of, but those two are very compelling.
lol, the right is so 3rd grade... I'm taking my ball and going home!! They would like people they profess to care about, hetero couples, to suffer. It's the same for repugs whenever they enter gov, they think gov doesn't work so as soon as they are handed the reigns they run gov into a ditch and say, see? told ya so. Their behavior constantly amazes me, how can people repeatedly act in complete disregard for their own interest as a person and human being and remain "sane"? Like some non-unionized worker voting against unions for the "dues" another word for your money, yet fail to realise that with a succesful union they often would be far ahead even with union dues. One minute they scream about states rights and the constitutional ammendments, then throw the constitution out with the bathwater after 9/11. They somehow manage to copartmentalize this shit, cause I would go crazy acting against my own interests like they do. Now my dad, rip, always told me if you ever find yourself rich, vote republican, but these people are not rich! They work 2 jobs they struggle to make ends meet and every polling day they go down and fuck themselves in the booth. Now they can't get a cheap cicil service in county, they have to drive at 5$ a gal to another county, nice job dipshits.
for those wondering - Kern County comes as no surprise. The center of the county is the "lovely" city of Bakersfield, and its equally delicious suburbs of Oildale, Edison, and Taft. simply one of the most noisome shitholes in the USA, filled with right wing nutjobs.
Andy K Jong Il @ 85:
Christ comes from the Greek word christos meaning anointed one.
It was used for any initiate into a Mystery Religion.
Some scholars equate the title primarily with the Cult of Dionysus/Bacchus.
But when the Romans stomped out the cult, one of the charges was sodomy rape of young boys.
Some some scholars think Christos meant anointed with seminal fluid.
Although it could've easily been olive oil chrisms.
I like pie @ 130:
Nah. Get married to get your spouse's health insurance.
People Fot The American Way has a guest book to sign for a California couple who have been together for 55 years and have now been allowed to legally marry.
http://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/ct/contactcustom.asp?c=feIJKQMEF&b=4...
Plisko @ 129:
Never mind that both McCain and Obama are christians, so there is a 100% chance that a Christian will be elected president. In fact in the history of this country there have been 100% Christian presidents elected every election.
Are we supposed to be impressed with such level of divine-infused prediction? What is next letting us now how water is wet?
"I was watching CNN and one of the “women” featured on “Robin Meade’s Morning Express” said that “she” and “her partner” were upholding God’s Law.
I wonder which one she is referring to — the one about “an abomination”? Or another one?
I can’t seem to find in the Bible where God made a law for gays to marry each other.
Can anyone help me out?"
Can't help you with that but here are some other things you can consider.
According to the bible
*If you work on sunday you are supposed to be killed
*If you wear a fabric made from 2 different threads (cotton Poly blend) you should be killed.
*If you plant more than one crop on a single parcel of land you should be killed
*You can own slaves as long as you purchase them from a neighboring country
*You can sell your daughter into slavery
xoites defends Constitution @ 123:
Fair enough.
I guess by majority I meant that the majority of people helps create the political will one way or another. . . . the majority of people agrees that a law is wrong or they don't disagree enough to help the efforts to enforce it. I agree that a person, or a small group, with the courage of their convictions is usually the one who tests the majority's will in these situations and pushes the will for change into the theater.
bandit @ 131:
I knew you meant it slightly differently. I was just helping you clarify. :)
Hah! Perfect.
Plisko @ 141:
Actually, it is through Civil Disobedience coupled (no pun intended) with a strong argument stated clearly that people have changed their minority view into the majority view which finally changes the law.
Why is the government in the marriage ceremony business anyway? Just issue the damn certificate, file it and be done with it. There could be a cottage industry of small chapels (a la Vegas) nearby the County offices that will perform any type of ceremony you desire. Religion is a business in so many ways making money on a group of people that agree to their set of rules, beliefs and mores, or kind of like a club that believes in something that not everyone does. There is no problem with that, if they stay out of everyones else's beliefs. The government need only take care of the paperwork, not unlike your property deed or birth certificate. The county doesn't do baptisms does it? So, the government can stay with the paperwork, providing an equal service to us all and the various religions can hold the ceremony that you want, end of problem. So lets thank the judgmental Kern County clerk for limiting her job and in her own odd little minded way showing us the proper answer. One of the complaints about the Kern County clerk's stand is that it eliminates inexpensive ceremonies for the poor. Again if the Clerk eliminated that part of the process at the clerk/recorders office, private sector chapels (a la Vegas) would pop up replacing the vacuum. They just haven't been able to compete with the government.
Nentuaby @ 40:
There actually is a Butte City in California, but it's not in Butte County, it's just to the west of it .... it's about half way between Sacramento and Redding.
xoites defends Constitution @ 119:
Thank you for articulating that. Well done
The lengths these bigots are willing to go...
Hey Nose, I like you. But not as much as I hate Face.
*chop*
ysbaddaden @ 136:
Now that I think of it, the Egyptians were probably among the first to baptise and anoint. I know as general custom they wore cones of incense under their hats or wigs to provide a fresh scent during the day.
The Mithraic initiate stood in a pit over which a bull was sacrificed, to be baptised in his blood, in memory of Mithra killing a sacred bull, symbol of the sun, although sometimes Mithra was identified with the sacral bull.
Many tribesmen in Africa would hold initiations where they would sacrifice a chicken, and the initiates would try to be sprayed with the blood
Kind of like an Alice Cooper concert.
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