Turley on new FISA bill: 'It's what any criminal would love to do.'
By John Amato Thursday Jun 19, 2008 11:00am
Jonathan Turley comes on KO once again to blast the umpteenth version of the compromise FISA bill that is being shoved down our throats. This time the Hoyer/FISA rollover bill is attached to the new GI Bill and extending unemployment benefits bill. Please don't forget to chip into our FISA Actblue page so we can take a stand against all atempts at subverting our rights. Anyway, it's being debated today so we'll let you know what happens.
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Turley: They repeatedly tried to cave it in to the White House only to be stopped by civil libertarians and bloggers and each time they would put it on the shelf, wait a few months, they did this before, reintroduced it with Jay Rockefeller's support and then there was another great dust up and they pulled it back. I think they're simply waiting to see if public's interest will wain and we'll see that tomorrow because this bill has no quite literally public value for citizens or civil liberties. It is reverse engineering. Th type of thing the Bush administration is famous for and now the Democrats are doing. That is to change the law to conform to past conduct. It's what any criminal would love to do.
As usual Russ Feingold isn't happy.
"The proposed FISA deal is not a compromise; it is a capitulation. The House and Senate should not be taking up this bill, which effectively guarantees immunity for telecom companies alleged to have participated in the President's illegal program, and which fails to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans at home.
Allowing courts to review the question of immunity is meaningless when the same legislation essentially requires the court to grant immunity. And under this bill, the government can still sweep up and keep the international communications of innocent Americans in the U.S. with no connection to suspected terrorists, with very few safeguards to protect against abuse of this power. Instead of cutting bad deals on both FISA and funding for the war in Iraq, Democrats should be standing up to the flawed and dangerous policies of this administration."
Sen. Chris Dodd,
I cannot support the so-called ‘compromise' legislation announced today. This bill would not hold the telecommunications companies that participated in the President's warrantless wiretapping program accountable for their actions. Instead, it would simply offer retroactive immunity by another name.
"As I have said time and time again, the President should not be above the rule of law, nor should the telecommunications companies who supported his quest to spy on American citizens. I remain strongly opposed to this deeply flawed bill, and I urge my colleagues in Congress to join me in supporting American's civil liberties by rejecting this measure."
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Filibuster?
Once again, the Dems need a Psychological Advisor, on Their Weakness for FISA.
Turley for AG!
It would kill Bush to do anything positive for the people of the United States of
America.
Here we go again.
Rep. Steny Hoyer is leading a "compromise" on the FISA reauthorization bill that would ultimately let the Bush administration and their friends at AT&T and Verizon off the hook for illegally spying on innocent Americans.
Last night, this so-called compromise was voted out of committee and as early as this morning the bill may be brought to the House floor for a full vote.
Speaker Pelosi can still stop this bill.
As Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi can pull the bill from the floor and refuse to call a vote.
Call Speaker Pelosi right now and demand she stand up to President Bush and stop telecom immunity.
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi
(202) 225-0100
Suggested Script:
"I'm calling to tell Speaker Pelosi I am depending on her to pull any bill from the floor that will ultimately grant immunity to telecommunications companies who illegally spied on Americans. Can I count on Speaker Pelosi to stand up to President Bush?"
PLEASE REPORT YOUR CALL BY CLICKING HERE http://www.democracyforamerica.com/activities/87-call-speaker-pelosi-now
Speaker Pelosi has stood up to the President's fear mongering on illegal spying before, she can do it again. But she needs to hear from you to know where you stand.
Here is what Senator Russ Fiengold said about this bill last night:
"The proposed FISA deal is not a compromise; it is a capitulation. The House and Senate should not be taking up this bill, which effectively guarantees immunity for telecom companies alleged to have participated in the President's illegal program, and which fails to protect the privacy of law-abiding Americans at home."
Senator Leahy also made his position clear:
"I will oppose this new FISA bill when the Senate votes on it next week. We must do everything we can to protect Americans from the Bush-Cheney Administration's erosion of our civil liberties and callous disregard for the rule of law -- and this new FISA bill fails that test."
You and I remember that the Senate has passed retroactive immunity before. But working together, we can make sure that the Senate never has a chance to pass this bill by stopping it in the House today. Call Speaker Pelosi right now.
Thank you for taking action.
-Charles
Charles Chamberlain, Political Director
Democracy for America
the dems are pissing me off. the worst kind of collaboration with the worst kind of evil.
the twilight of a once great nation, tainted by greed and fear
and our own party is culpable.
when will it end.
makes me dream of the ancient organization called the Minute Men, and a little town called Concord MA.
Pelosi should be ashamed of herself for allowing this to come to a vote. She has shown zero leadership in curtailing Bush's illegal activities. She should be called Nancy "Play-Dough" Pelosi -- She's putty in Bush's hands. 100% compliant and no backbone to get in the way.
The dems in general should also be ashamed for even considering this atrocity, let alone actually supporting it.
Looks like the dem leadership were briefed on this crime and are covering their asses.
Kucinich gave the best speech and is credible.
Can O' Whoopass @ 4:
he thinks he's helping us. It's a "save us from ourselves by caging us" mentality
The Dems have sold out the American people. They are complicit in crimes against the American people. They are as disgusting as GWB now. Great job!
Well, there goes the November election.
pelosi's line is busy!!!
I foolishly allowed myself to get excited by this Congress and voting for Obama this November. I foolishly had contributed my hard, hard, hard earned money to Dems this year. And what do I get is what I've always gotten. Come November I will have the American privilege of voting for the lesser of two evils.
Open Note to the Democratic Party: You will have my vote this November only because you are the lesser of two evils, but you won't get my money. My tiny $ contribution has already been given to you by the likes of Comcast, Verizon, AT&T, and others. I can see you work for them and not for me. Working for me would be to defend the Constitution and the rule of law. This Congress and this President has sold the inspiration, the sacrifice, and the blood of generations of patriots to the highest bidder. Enjoy your retirement you traitors.
Can anyone enlighten me about what the hold-criminals-accountable "side" got in this "compromise"?
Or is this just another in too, too long series of Republican "compromises" that consist of doing what the Repubs want and everybody else can go f*ck themselves?
Pelosi's line is busy? She's calling the bank to see if the check has cleared.
marko @ 12:
Yep. I've been trying and all I get is a busy signal. I hope those calls that do get thru are reading her the riot act. This is an outrage that with all the promises of reining in Bush's illegal activities in 2006 have all been forgotten.
The democrats cave again. Surprise surprise.
isn't this a kinda "ex post facto" law?
Another sad day in what was once a country called America. See ya Fourth Amendment.
The Constitution has really bitten the dust.
I don't even know what to say other than this totally sickens me. All I can say at this point is donate to Russ's Progressive Patriot's Fund. Keep a tally of who votes for this unconstitutional piece of crap and give them hell on a daily basis and do what you can to get them out of office. My money will not being going to anyone, it will be going against any Democrat who hates the constitution. And thanks Russ for doing what you can, how you keep from literally exploding and losing your mind is beyond me.
McCain the Liar @ 17:
EXACTLY.
So when is the government going to come to remove the doors from our privies?
everytime this comes up, you can hear the tumbleweeds blowing thru the democrats, Obama and FISA make a wonderfully silent backdrop for the chirrping of crickets.
Bend Over, we'll drive
ysbaddaden @ 22:
No need when they install cameras in our asses.
This good cop bad cop two party system is all we have for now. I think the most realistic option at this point is to take over the spineless party with progressives. I would start by targeting Reid, Pelosi and Hoyer. Send the cowards a message loud and clear and kick their asses to the curb. And anyone else who wants to suck up to the Neocon cowards can follow them.
The right wing party and the ultra right wing party have compromised.
Government of the corporations, by the corporations, for the corporations… and their buddies.
And don't you forget it, peasant!
When the Republicans are in the majority they control the show. When the Democrats are in the majority, the Republicans control the show, thanks to "Republicrats" in our party. They need to be targeted and kicked out of the Democratic Party.
Who's the ummm, Libertarian candidate again ?
Bob Barr is the Libertarian candidate.
FEINGOLD WHERE ARE YOU!!!!!!
Well,
That was a nice bit of theater....
Hope you all enjoyed the show on the Congressional floor today....
The dems are doing to the liberals, what the bush and rove did to the evangelicals.
McCain: Close Guantanamo Bay vs. McCain: Guantanamo Ruling One of the ‘Worst Decisions’ in History
http://georgebushsthirdterm.blogspot.com/2008/06/mccain-close-guantanamo-bay-vs-mccain.html
http://georgebushsthirdterm.blogspot.com/2008/06/mccain-close-guantanamo...
It's official Now
The People's House Of TRAITORS
Nancy+ Steny+ Harry = nothing. Proving time after time that you can learn to like sodomy.
just another reason why i am a proud independent.
the democratic party, with some exceptions, is just as bad as the GOP.
Gregg @ 33:
Excellent!
Can O' Whoopass @ 4:
Shouldn't you also consider the proximity of the elections and the telco's ablity to enable or throttle throughput in so many subtle ways? And surely backups exist. And then there's Pointdexter's TIA 2.0.
Half the dems votesd yes.
Amazing unity for corporate amnesty.
This is why I have not drank the Obama kool aid.
His silence on this issue is failed leadership.
Well on the bright side, think of all the money you're going to save this summer! When the phone rings during dinner, or when you're watching some shitty reality show this summer, and the voice on the other end is asking you to contribute or volunteer for the Democrats, all you have to say is: "I have one word for you, FISA, good bye and don't call me again." Then just hang up.
FeingoldFan @ 30:
*pulls lever for Barr*
:(
I'm yelling at my own Dems (watching FISA debate) and cheering on a Republican (McClellan at hearings).
What's the world coming to?
DEMS in DC. Who's side are they are on? It's getting so that I can no longer tell the good from the bad anymore. Which does not leave me with a comfortable feeling.I'm so tired of the Dems holding committees that offer no resolve or accountability. I'm tired of their gutless approach while the world burns. Either the Bush Adm has got a lot of dirt on them, or they to are a very large part of the problem(s) especially when it comes to our civil rights.
Mississippi Goddam Nina Simone
"Oh but this whole country is full of lies
Youre all gonna die and die like flies (I'm not advocating anyone die, it's just part of the lyrics. But they do resemble a swarm of DC flies)
I dont trust you any more
You keep on saying go slow!
Go slow!"
It's going so slow, that we are actually going backwards. They've killed Democracy and now they're lowering the casket with each and every Bill they shove down our throats. I'm so tired of choking on their BS.
Samson- @ 37:
Yep.
getalife @ 40:
According to Harper's Index, members of congress have a combined $150 million spendolis invested in defense contractors.
I just use the BarackObama.com feedback page to inform them that I will make a significant donation to the Obama campaign if Obama acts to defeat the FISA bill in the Senate -- as I donated to the Dodd campaign after Dodd's filibuster in the fall -- and that I will not make any donation if he does not act.
It's within Obama's power to engineer the defeat of this bill, an doing so would show the kind of leader he can be in the White House.
Gregg @ 33:
True bipartisanship - both parties moving to the great center - our not-so-fledgling CORPORATOCRACY!
obama (and, yes, i know he is in the senate) should have come out against this capitulation. he should used his role as 'leader of the party' to put pressure on the corporate lackeys (hoyer, pelosi, etc.).
he didn't.
unless he steps and shows where he stands on these CRUCIAL issues i am going to wonder if the dems made a huge mistake.
obama wtf are you? (w = where)
*writes in kucinich*
{ Deleted, sorry but we don't allow people to post in all Caps or in all Bold lettering. Site Monitor]
Exotic Blue Lensman @ 3:
You "Fristed" me on my standard Turley comment. I just e-mailed Senator Obama that, as he is considered a constitutional expert as much as Turley and now the leader of the Democratic Party, he needs to lead the fight against this Hoyer "compromise", a.k.a. abortion, and reiterated what Turley said that this bill would eviscerate the 4th Ammendment. A true American and Democrat does not compromise on the Constitution. I know there was collusion here, but the Democrats can at least dodge the bullet one more time and put this whole question on ice until they win the White House.
I suspect we all will be hearing from MoveOn and Jane and Glenn soon, and Senator Obama should seriously considered that the 1.5 million of us who support his candidacy also are against this Hoyer bill.
getalife @ 40:
I knew it wouldn't take you long to try to "lapel pin" Obama on the gutlessness of the Democratic leadership. Take your bullshit to Nancy and Harry [Deleted,knock off the personal attacks] THEY ARE THE APPOINTED LEADERS! Oh and by the way troll, Obama has never voted yes for this FISA sellout.
[ Edited, I've asked you not to do this before. Haven't I? Site Monitor]
Wexler telling some truth on C-span 2 right now.
I called Obama's office in Washington, and unlike Pelosi's office, you can talk to a human. I encouraged the Senator from
Illinois to make a public statement denouncing this so called "compromise". I said that this would prove whose side he is on
and garner him more political capital than he would gain from supporting the soon to be unemployed reid, pelosi, hoyer cabal.
202-224-2854 and tell Obama to show some LEADERSHIP in this crucial time!!!
Left&Left @ 51:
He is leader of the party now.
The problem with this is that the Constitution bans any Ex Post Facto laws. The Congress under Article 3 can determine what cases cannot be heard in Federal Courts. Congress is trying to pass a law that they know violates the Constitution and at the same time they are removing it from the jurisdiction of the Federal Courts. Oddly enough, the Congress is also attempting to usurp the role of the President, by in essence granting pardons.
This is going to make such a mess of our Constitution and the Federal Courts will be powerless to resolve it.
This is truly a sad day. The sun has set on the late great America. Yet the MSM barely says a word.
Surprised?
Corporatism = Fascism.
FeingoldFan @ 52:
Wexler was a co sponsor.
Doesn't the fact that it's attached to the GI Bill mean that there's gotta be a vote to detach it from the bill, too? I keep getting the feeling that Hoyer is sabotaging the process by attaching it to the GIB as noted in the OP above and some real strategery has to go into making sure that the GIB is not affected by this pure BS.
insideoutgraphics @ 44:
You ever think that the people who voted for Nader in 2000 and 2004 just figured all this out earlier than other people.
getalife @ 54:
Roger that!!! This is where the rubber hits the road. HE MUST SPEAK OUT NOW!!!!
Scottie is spilling his guts on C-Span2.
Good stuff.
So how long before bushie and the republicks start screaming that they need proactive immunity or else teh ebil terrarists will be fist jabbing everywhere. And don't forget the spineless dems capitulating again, sorry, compromising again.
I like pie @ 60:
we did
getalife @ 55:
Bullshit!!! Run for President dealing with McCrazy and simultaneously wiping Nancy's and Harry's asses because they can't do their jobs.
This is why Congress' approval ratings are even LOWER than Bush's. For all the hoodwinking, the American people do understand the brazen unprincipled corruption that prevails in Congress. The FISA bill is just another example fo this.
Glenn Greenwald has the right idea -- the progressive and libertarian communities can pool their resources and strengths to oust Pelosi and Hoyer. For weak kneed Democrat partisans this shouldn't be a problem given the guaranteed Democratic majority in the fall.
WTF? Names are dropping off this list? It use to be about 20 names.
Rep. John Conyers [D-MI]
Cosponsors
Del. Donna Christensen [D-VI]
Rep. Darlene Hooley [D-OR]
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee [D-TX]
Rep. Jerrold Nadler [D-NY]
Rep. Silvestre Reyes [D-TX]
Rep. Ciro Rodriguez [D-TX]
Rep. Robert Scott [D-VA]
Pelosi
Hoyer
Reid
All complicit spineless whores, suckers of the corporate cock!
Enablers of War Criminals, traitors, and felons.
What we need is NOT relief from the republicans, which the dems are happy to provide,
What we need IS relief from republicans policies, for which the dems are reluctant to provide.
The dems are not a direction for change and progress, they are just the capatilist's anesthetic engineered for weak-minded liberals. The formula goes down easier for us. We are still sick, but at least the placebo tastes better.
Ryoko @ 7:
Agreed. I was so excited to have the 1st woman speaker of the house. What a disappointment she & Harry have turned out to be. They have gone back on their oath, like the Dems, on their duty to provide oversite. They have let the Bush criminal cabal do anything they want. Disgusting.
Left&Left @ 65:
The strong drive to conflate dem support for this FISA bill with general election support for Obama appears to be a purposeful effort. I concur with your troll call-out, L&L.
Ryoko @ 7:
im positive nancy would hum the battle hymn of the republic on bushes tool if it was not impeacable to do it, mine eyes have seen the glory , hum it nancy!
2 questions to Constitutional lawyers who might be lurking:
Could it be argued that this moves is also a kind of skewed violation of the Bills of Attainder prohibitions in the Constitution? In an inverse sort of way that is designed to give criminals a free ride instead of punish the innocent prior to or without conviction by a jury trial? It's a stretch, but it seems almost like a Bill of attainder in reverse.
Second, this is an attempt to destroy the 4th Amendment, undoubtedly so that members of Congress from both parties who are complicit in Bush's crime against the Nation and the constitution can escape any move to bring them to justice. But Congress can write no laws that amend the constitution, or rather, they can write them until the cows come home but they are null and void unless ratified by 2/3's of the states. What thren is to prevent the supreme Court, or any federal court from taking the initiative and stepping in an issing a ruling /order that Congress should cease and desist, to stop wasting their time,becUSE WHAT THEY ARE CONTEMPLATING OR ATTEMPTING IS UNcONSTITUTIONAL FROM THE GET GO?
I <3 Feingold. Cenk Uygur rightfully has a mancrush on him.
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
It’s time for the second revolution!
73 Paul
I always thought it was like a no ex post facto law in reverse, but your reverse bill of attainder sounds more correct, since those are issued on groups of people.
I bet if I was caught peeking in the girls locker room, I wouldn't have immunity.
Exotic Blue Lensman @ 71:
r u kidding me? please say you are joking~
*smacks head in surprise and disappointment*
Andrew @ 75:
Why all the yelling?
Call Pelosi's office and demand she resign. This is completely unacceptable that a bill modeled after the abuses of old Soviet Union would pass in the US. I'm not sure who the bigger failures are: Bush or the dems that have chosen to enable him.
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi
(202) 225-0100
I'm trying to find the original list of co-sponsors. I think everyone of those assholes needs to be recognized for their foul deed.
Is this a bad dream or is this reality? I think I found a way to solve the energy problem. Hook up a turbine to the Founding Fathers graves. They must be spinning at about 5000 RPM right now.
getalife @ 62:
I'm glad I'm not the janitor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-7pgeD__qU
Look over there, McClellan is testifying...so maybe no one will notice the 4th Amendment is being trashed.
How they voted, has been added.
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll437.xml
WE must not give up until we get rid of all those that do not truly represent those of us that make up the Democratic Party. We should not rest until Pelosi, Hoyer and all those that support this bill should be drummed out of Congress.
Leslie [Hussein] @ 82:
I wondered that myself.
It would sure save time to look at all new laws to CONFIRM past conduct, and as good a smoking gun as you're likely to find.
Just think of all the pain and suffering that could've been avoided by taking a closer look at Mrs. Phillip Graham and her brother-in-law's porn film business.
It's difficult to get through to Hoyer's office right now...all lines seem to be tied up and there's no more room in his voice mailbox. I figured, screw it, he's not my representative but I did grow up from infancy to adulthood in Maryland, and he is the frigging majority leader. I really want to give someone an earful.
While the vote was held, I'm sure I wasn't alone in watching C-Span while virtually every caller, Republican, Democratic, Independent raged about the horror they were witnessing. This is breathtakingly bad legislation. And to picture Bush smirking as he gleefully pulls another banana out of his ass is more than I can stand right now.
Does anyone expect the Senate now to do the right thing and kill this? No...anyone, Bueller? I didn't think so.
Samson- @ 77:
Dude, Obama is a Senator running for President...he's busy. You're right, he should speak out. But to try and blame him for Nancy, Steny, and Harry's failed APPOINTED leadership is bullshit...period. The guy hasn't taken office yet and you're already blaming him for shit he's not responsible for.
harley @ 83:
Pelosi voted to gut the 4th amendment, she voted for Hoyer's FISA bill. Unbelievable.
let's just quit pretending anymore and issue a new american flag, replacing the stars with swaztikas.
Left&Left @ 88:
yeah, he is running to be president, which means that it behooves him to show leadership, to get in front of issues (especially issues this crucial) and to speak for the people.
he is the party's nominee, and i would hope that would give him some reason to take a stand on these issues. campaigning is no excuse. in fact, i would say that his taking a strong stand on this issue would do more for his campaign than staying out of the argument and holding election rallies.
let's hope, if/when he is elected, that he is willing to assert himself in crucial issues and to challenge the congressional leaders when they do something so friggin dumb.
really, though, to me, the fact that reid, pelosi, hoyer, etc. are folding to corporate and GOP demands just gives makes it seem that obama's failure to talk about this subject was a terrible move on his campaign's part.
not fatal. but damaging. now obama needs to come out hard against this corporate appeasement. that will make up for a lot, at least for me it will.
SweetAtheist @ 5:
Pelosi will not do ANYTHING. She's one of BushCo's plants. She's a quisling. She's working for the other team as a double agent.
For small, unimportant things, she will pretend to be on the side of the people, but when it profits Bush and Cheney the most, she will bow to her secret (Like we can't see with our own eyes) masters.
Samson- @ 91:
My point is a very simple one - this failure on the part of the dems is NOT a reason to vote for McCain or even just against Obama. Doing so would be akin to setting your house on fire because you had a grease fire on the stove.
Money vs. poverty.
We are given hearings to listen to. That's all there is.
What is a result of these hearings?
Immunity handed out on silver platter, embossed with the seal of the president.
Please define the term "democracy", that troops have died for. That people are severely sacrificing for. Cause I don't see it.
Red vs. Purple
.
WHAT DOES TREASON MEAN, anymore?
When the CONgress votes to undermine your security from the Government, are you safe and free, anymore?
T R E A S O N!
It's not about bombs and assassinations...
It's about the Constitution!
Running on a promise to END the Iraq Occupation and voting to keep that war ongoing... is capitulation.
Taking an Oath to support and defend the People's Rights and then voting to violate those Rights, Freedoms and Liberties is TREASON!
TREASON is when the Nation is harmed... undermined... made LESS safe.... by the actions of another.
.
Don't expect Obama to do squat. Obama is two hairs left of Hillary and that's all. He is way right of Kucinich folks. He's not running a 50 state campaign to rock the boat, but only to "change" things for what that's worth. The dems are going to suck up to corporate America and they'll keep winning elections as long as they suck on the pipe, hard. Why would corporate America funding Obama want to do any more about the Bush crime family than corporate America today? If politicians worked for the people it would be a different world, but they don't and no one should expect anything to be done about the Bush clan. Perhaps they'll throw us a bone, oh boy more hearings, and possibly throw some low ranking intern in jail, the kid probably spent too much time sending IMs around the office than doing his work anyway.
Captain W. Pants himself said it was all legal, so why would the telecom companies need immunity?
.
293 Members of CONgress think the Fourth Amendment is over rated...?
293 Members of CONgress think you don't deserve protection from TYRANNY...!
293 Members of CONgress think TREASON is acceptable and moral...
.
.
293 Members of CONgress think Apeasement of a Fascist Regime is a good thing... when THEY(sic) are part of the Fascist Regime.
.
Save us Ron Paul, you're our only hope.
Hopefully (but I'm not holding my breath) someone with some balls in the senate will filibuster this bill.
Gosh, I just love my cousin. And yes having him as AG would be amazing!
patrick @26 We should vote out every sitting congress-person, dem or gop, out side of a very small handfull. These lowlife fuckers have seen the last of my money, support, and votes! Time after time these rats have let us down, giving crappy excuses, while having their hand out for bribe money! pelosi, reid, hoyer, we see you for what you are, your ass is gone in january you rat sons of bitchs. If we ever get the chance to dig up the truth on all this, it's jail for all three of you, maybe even hanging if its called for. You slime are worse than any terrorist or traitor that ever walked this earth and should all be taken in front of a court of citizens to answer for your crimes, then hung in a town plaza in public view of the people! We have let to many get by with too much, this has got to end now. Dems and gop can kiss my ass, I will vote for the person who is stand up. Not a red cent will I give to these MF! #*&*#:"-CEO
Thank you, Samson #91. For anyone saying that Obama is just too darn busy to take a principled stand, you are not doing the country, or the Democratic Party, any favors. Obama took the right stand on previous attempts to whitewash Bush's domestic spying and he should use his position as the nation's leading Democratic voice to do so again before this piece of crap "compromise" hits the Senate. How he reacts to this criminal bill will be a good indicator of how he would govern as president. I hope he will do the right, and not the expedient, thing.
I take some cold comfort that at least a sizeable majority of House Dems still voted against this travesty, while only one Republican voted Nay.
Astro @ 103:
I NEVER said that Obama was too busy to take a principled stand....I said he SHOULD speak out(and I believe he will). I simply said that he is busy with McDumb . Most of the rational posts here point the fingers at the proper perpetrators of this cave in....Nancy, Steny, and Harry....the three stooges of Democratic leadership.
getalife @ 8:
Maybe someday in the near future, we can include Pelosi and Reid in the Bush family crime syndicate trials. That would be one way to get rid of their republican ass kissing faces!
Vote Remo-crat! One party, for the price of two!
Get the word out that the Telecom immunity FISA bill is aka the Congressman CYA bill!
We will hold those accountable for harming the Constitution!
this bipartisan sell out accentuates just how embedded the republicrat elite is. All joe public should do is try to pay his bills while watching 4 hours of tv a day.
My god this is so frightening. Out of all congressional reps in CO only ONE dem out of 4 voted against this bill and that is Diana DeGette.
Udall, who is shooting for the Senate and turned disgusting Bluedog is about to invade the senate. Brothers Salazar (john in congress, ken in senate) have been fullblown Bluedogs since day one.
What the HELL can we do? This is completely frightening.
So long 4th amendment.
Goodbye to the country i have known for 50 years.
We need to stop this in the Senate. We can't let these crimes against us stand. I hope Dennis Kucinih has domestic spying on his impeachment list. We need to start having some trials of fact in this law forsaken place!!!!!
Samson- @ 91:
The mere fact that Bush wants immunity for these creeps proves that they and he broke the law. It is open admission of guilt!
Our last hopes are that Obama will get all over this as a Senator and that he could filibuster it himself in person on the Senate floor!
So now that telecoms can claim imunity, now it is very clear that information they have on us, I mean like things we have said can now be used agaisnt us. As always we get no imunity, so our lifes are basically sealed to slavery and nothing even optimistic can ever come about because soon we will not be able to speak.
Ryoko @ 100:
Ron Paul didn't even vote.
When I've finaly had a shimmer of hope that this country will turn around with Dems in power, I see a disgusting act like this.
I for one am fairly new to politics and can not stand the people who are representing me. They are no better then the Bush Clan.
First off I will never give a dime to a politician. Any and all money I feel I can spare will be given the ACLU as they seem to be the only ones who believe in the Constitution anymore.
Secondly, I can see why Obama wouldn't make a stand here though I would disagree with him not. Say he stands up against telcom immunity and makes it a point to show his leadership. Unless he gets every Democrat to stand with him then he comes across as not having the support of his own party. The Republicans and the Hate Right would have a field day with that, look Obama can't even rally the Senators of his party how can he lead this country. Again I don't agree with it but I can see where he would be in a very difficult situation here.
I am very upset that the congress continues to give our rights away to a corrupt and greedy president. It is wrong to pass that bill and I am very disappointed the dems cannot see that. They don't have to give Bush anything. His approval is 29% and Cheney is lower. The dems don't need to be afraid of them. They should be afraid of us.
getalife @ 8:
The dems don't want any accountability for this, or the fact that they were briefed on torture techniques. This is the party that is going to change once Obama gets in? Any gains from a gradualist approach doesn't change anything, as we can see from what the repubs have made the dems do. Do Obama supporters really think he'll be so popular that the right wing and corporate interest will just give in for a while, while dems fix everything? While he is the best for the economy, heath care, the war, as long as Kucinich is in that party, he offers no break from the system either.
It's not just the Repubs who are willing to sell this country out. Remember "impeachment is off the table!"
Stop voting for democrats, they are not liberal in any sense of the word, vote for Libertarians and Greens, stop blindly believing your only choice is a democrat or republican, they are never the choice, people who continue to call them selves that are by a high majority not republicans or democrats they are the same people, I mean what would you say Joe Lieberman is, how about Hillary, spineless is one word, but it really applies by far to most democrats, the only ones that are really trying to save your civil liberties are written off everytime, Kucinich didn't have a chance, neither did Gravel, all because so called Democrats you included went with who you thought had the best chance of being elected, instead the of the best CHOICE!
Everytime someone starts saying something true, people turn off to it, put on blinders trying to pretend well it's not really so bad, and assume the main goal is to keep the other lizard out of office, instead of voting for people that acctualy make sense. I mean seriously stop voting for Democrats, they are not an alternative, stop pretending, the dream is over, it was over yesterday!
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