Countdown: Gas Pain, John McCain And The $300 Million Battery
By Logan Murphy Monday Jun 23, 2008 11:00am
Republican Presidential Candidate, John McCain, proposed a gas tax holiday which turned out to be a non-starter with the American people, then he flip flopped on offshore drilling, and now, with his latest proposal to help end our current energy crisis, the Arizona Senator proves why voters prefer Barack Obama over him when it comes to the economy and solving the energy crisis.
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Keith Olbermann talked to Chris Hayes from The Nation on Monday's Countdown about McCain's $300 million dollar offer to anyone who can design a "Flash Gordon-y" battery, and exposes it for the joke that it really is. McCain even said he would pay the hefty sum by cutting out pork barrel projects from his budget -- which is a bit confusing as he is supposed to be the savior who will step in and put an end to all pork barrel spending.
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Speaking of gas pain: Obama Aide Claims Barack Will Benefit if Country Suffers an Attack of Flatulence
I'll bet McCain is not drilling one thing .... Cindy.
This $300 million prize just sickened me when I first heard it.
That's the typical rethuglican remedy for all that ails us: toss The Masses the illusion of a carrot and hope they think it's the real thing.
I can't wait for that old stupid-ass to disappear into the sunset with his other neo-con buddies.
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I actually already invented this mythical battery. But it has cost me $301 million to develop, so I am holding out for a bigger prize.
"Joke" isn't the word. Completely detached from reality might come close, but is probably too polite.
Improving battery efficiency is the motherlode of the goldmine of modern technology. Look at where they're used - from torches to laptops to cell phones - and look at how bulky they are, how fast they run down, how expensive they are and how hard to dispose of.
There are plenty of motives to improve batteries, including cars, but cars are not in the top 5.
Any advance in battery technology would benefit cars as a spin off, but would have made the inventor a fortune already.
(Cars don't really need batteries anyway, fuel cells would do the trick and already work)
I'm sure mccain's got all kinds of problems with gas.
Take the battery challenge for what it is - an empty promise. No funds presently exist, nor any committee to judge the entries.
So McFuzzyThinking wants your vote on the basis of a contest he isn't holding and a battery that doesn't exist. That's leadership?
I'm all for innovation and even putting the best minds in the country to work on alternative energy solutions, but I think we need to be doing this as if it were the Manhattan Project, or the WPA ... not shrug and hope someone comes up with the solution.
CarpeDiem @ 4:
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Well, he's far too inexperienced for us to know this for certain at this point. Lets give Obama a shot and see for ourselves.
McCan't in offering $300M? I say Obama should offer $301M.
It must be hard being McCain, not knowing where you left your energy policy, was it in the fridge, did you leave it in with your dentures? Maybe you left it with the keys you forgot from last week? What a clueless, meandering fool.
CarpeDiem @ 4:
Doris Day?
♠Bangkok Bob♥ @ 2:
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Electric cars with batteries are a joke.
They exist primarily to reinvigorate the nuclear power industry.
McCain wants these batteries to exist, so America will be forced to accept nuclear power plants.
Then, welcome back huge electric SUV's with 1500 pound batteries and nuclear power.
Then we will have problems.
I believe I read in Wired magazine a few years back about new battery technology, which of course was widely ignored.
McCain = doddering old fool.
Shadowgm @ 8:
Remember the reason for battery powered cars is to compel Americans to accept several nuclear power plants in each state!!!!!!!!!
Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 10:
now that's what I call a "reinvigorating the economy with eBay" mindset. ;-)
Isn't there anybody minding the store up in McSame's brain ???
Why are his handlers allowing him to look like a misguided stool ??!?!
Oh yeah I forgot, his handlers are having their own 'issues' to deal with.
nebbermind.
Captain Obama’s Bitter Half Husein Kangaroo @ 10:
That's a lot for one battery.
JM's got a good point - the battery isn't really what runs the car, it's the gasoline-operated engine. Even hybrids rely on high-efficiency gasoline engines.
So in addition to a no-prize, we're trying to score a grand slam in a football game.
Might as well have a coal furnace on a gigantic SUV. Why not? Let's choke the Hell out of mankind. Let's just get it over with.
The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela @ 5:
Don't give in Chico!
Shadowgm @ 20:
With a football bat no less!
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mccain and his people have no answer and don't care about finding an answer regarding the rising energy prices..........they're in on it......this is more of the same letting oil companies manipulate the market on the production side. i am starting to get burnt out listening to the mcBush side show.
Ron @ 19:
Circuit City has them on sale for $295 million. Check this weekend's papers...
A little off topic, but what the hell is up with Bouncy McGee (Chris Hayes)? That guy couldn't sit still if you glued him to the chair. Switch to decaff.
I found this interview a bit patronizing. They talk about one candidate, but personally (and I'm an Obama supporter) I don't think any president is going to be able to lower gas prices in the short term until painful sacrifices are made. A dramatic switch to alternative fuels, hybrid engines in all cars, a complete restructuring of the oil market, etc.
I want Obama in office but I can foresee Americans both republican and democratic a year from now saying "why haven't the democrats lowered gas prices? Why did we elect them?" And so on.
Brendan @ 26:
You can get a pack of 10 at Costco for $250M.
Until Republicans get themselves another 'Pearl Harbor'-like catalyst to exploit, they will have to exploit the current energy crisis instead.
I already sold my battery to ExxonMobil. They made me an offer I couldn't refuse.
I highly recommend everyyone watch the replay of yesterdays House energy and commerce subcmte. hearing to listen to many of the witness's testify about how the price per barrel could come down 25 to 50% in just one month without congress doing anything...please watch this on www.cspan.org located under "recent hearings" listed as follows...
House Energy & Commerce Subcmte. Hearing on Energy Prices: Panels Three & Four (June 23, 2008)
Rep. Bart Stupak (D-MI) chairs a House Energy & Commerce Oversight & Investigations subcmte. hearing to examine whether market speculation is inflating the price of crude oil, and whether Congress needs to improve regulatory oversight.
Washington, DC : 2 hr. 47 min.
Some of you people seem to be cronic complainers instead of problem solvers... The battery idea is a GREAT idea... in fact many people on the left have been asking for the government to get behind such an effort ever since 911... it is not a bad idea just because McCain said it... However it is totally bogus for McCain to bring this up just now when he is running from president instead of right after 911... He is obviously just pandering...
If we dont use our technology to create things like such a battery then what? Stay on oil? Seriously think about how stupid it is to be against using technology to make something like a super efficient battery... In fast in stead of calling it "Flash Gordon-y" maybe you should just use google... Tesla Motors has made a very good battery system and so has this company http://www.a123systems.com/... in fact there are several battery technologies being worked on all around the country... a $300 million dollar incentive can do the same thing that the DARPA robot car challenge has done... drive innovation.
Remember ... if you think this GOOD idea is bad just because McCain said it then you are just being partisan... dont give McCain credit for it because he obviously just brought this up now because he is running for president... but dont shoot down the good idea.
liberalDAPofDESTINYmoderation @ 22:
I hear Obama is offering 301mill. That'll only make me come out even.
If I can get $302 mill I might consider.
Shadowgm @ 20:
Remember, what McCain wants is battery only cars (like the Tesla) that must be charged by AC Power from the grid.
That would result in such a demand that Americans would be compelled to accept several nuclear power plants in each state.
Hybrid cars are bad because it takes on the average 100,000 miles to negate the extra carbon consumed in their manufacture.
Stop buying them!!!!!!
The Toyota Aeron gets 97mpg. That is a better transition technology.
The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela @ 29:
Yes, ending with their unwavering support for the nuclear power industry!!!!
Underground Pirate @ 16:
More like energy generated by wind mill or backyard solar panel right into your garage electrical receptacle from which your plug-in car gets charged just like your cell phone. I'm sure that every oil CEO and oil lobbyist will tell you precisely how much has been spent and how hard they've worked over the years to make such an easy, doable scenario reality, or better yet, ask McCain, the energy expert, who's been working so hard with the energy sector to make life easier, cheaper, more practical and environment-friendly for each and every American.
oil companies and speculators on the international commodities exchange market are manipulating prices
i would like to see mccain take questions for an hour regarding oil and energy policy without people at his side answering the questions....he is becoming a joke gone bad to me. saudi king said it was speculation this guy knows..short 3 min video i recommend
http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&It...
With laughable and desperate tactics like this, it appears that McGrampa is trying to throw this election.
Underground Pirate @ 14:
Ever hear of something called Wind power? Solar? Quite being a partisan fool ... attacking an electric is stupid... Electric cars are NOT a joke... http://www.teslamotors.com/
Gerald Gibson @ 32:
We're being critical of McSame here mostly because he has provided no TEETH with his proposal. No funding, no technical details of what's needed, no engineering committe to determine if any submitted entries are valid and worth the prize, NOTHING. Just a simple statement aimed at the simple minds that vote Republican.
Gerald Gibson @ 39:
Nuclear power is a great option if we could build the plants economically and come up with a way to dispose of the waste.
karl @ 37:
Excellent post karl. Thanks for the link.
Dr. (Fast Eddie Hussein) Matt @ 41:
Look up Pebblebed Nuclear Reactors... no liquid radioactive waste... they do NOT blow up ... ever... If only we embarked on a Manhattan Project for safe nuclear energy... that would solve alot of issues... but we can do the same with Wind Power and Solar...
Fusion of Helium-3 is the answer to clean nuclear energy.
But we dont have enough of that stuff around here on Earth.
Gerald Gibson @ 43:
With a country this size, it would be wise and appropriate to invest in all three.
Joe Tseng i I noticed bouncy Chris when I saw this segment of Countdown last night. KO is finally having new faces on air, which I love. I like what Hayes has to say. I went to an event a few weeks ago where Kos spoke and said that MSM is paying attention to bloggers; viewpoints but they need people on air who are 'good at TV'. God I hate tv.
Gerald Gibson @ 43:
I've heard of those reactors...I think we're gonna need all those modes of energy to break away from coal and oil.
I just don't get why McCain keeps speculating about these things, does he think it makes him look visionary? Is it better to spout off with every idea your lobbyist friends come up with than to keep quiet until you have an idea of your own?
Also, I have to commend Keith on the new glasses and tie, although it looks a bit like he was made over by the Queer Eye guys. :P
The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela @ 33:
Ron Paul's offering 303 mil....unfortunately, it's all in monopoly money...it's sad really.
A battery converts chemical energy into an electric charge. I don't know about you; but, I am very sketchy about using toxic chemicals to supply our energy needs. It just seems kinda dangerous and stupid.
Keith has gotta lose the pink shirt and tie. It just doesn't look good.
liberalDAPofDESTINYmoderation @ 49:
Dead-eye Dick Cheney is offering 1000 dead brown people.
I Like Pie @ 50:
the production of these batteries is in canada and china...production has a large c-foot print.......i think most of us will agree it's not the answer just part of the transition for the next/best technology........this is going to be 20-40yr. project.........right now i believe there are some technologies with promise cost and efficency.....
Hasn't anyone else noticed that about a week ago, Exxon Mobile started airing another one of their "we feel your pain ads" with a very "sciencey" looking guy, claiming that they (Exxon) had just developed a lithium ion film that would increase battery life? In fact, Sunday morning on This Week, George hosted a round table on oil....that had an oil industry spokesman..who claimed (paraphrasing here)..." we developed the lithium ion technology....".
In the movie "Who Killed the Electric Car?" there is a segment that talks about how a much more efficient lithium ion battery was developed, by an entrepreneur from somewhere in the northeast, but that after they shredded all of the EV cars in California, the patents for the battery they were using were all bought up by.......Chevron?
Anyone want to bet, who would get Mr. McSames $300 million "innovation" prize? I will give you 2 guesses....
liberalDAPofDESTINYmoderation @ 49:
Did you know that two of the bigest employers of Ron Paul doners are from Google and Microsoft? If the Ron Paul people were given a moon landing type challenge to go after they could really help to raise the money and provide the technology...
I Like Pie @ 50:
The newest batteries use not so toxic chemicals.. look it up http://a123systems.com
bdogg @ 54:
Off-topic, I've noticed them from a couple of the big pharmaceuticals lately... Wonder what they're all suddenly so worried about...
This is so stupid on so many levels....McCain = Greenwash. Simple as that.
EEStor = Supercapacitors, Lockheed Martin already bought up some shares, and has signed an exclusive deal....(google it, or wikipedia for more info...also check out Stanford nanowire battery....)
Gas Tax Holiday = McCain & Saudi Arabia love it....do the math, not so tough...
Heck, even Cheney doesn't like the idea....
McCain trying to be Green is like Bush trying to be competent....
Brendan @ 57:
Retribution Day: Jan, 12 2009
mudshark @ 42:
check this out....saudi king says speculation just a guess here that they know a lot about the crude market were getting taken on oil just like electricity when enron was manipulatingthe grid exchange...and mcBlame does this fxxking side show..i don't think it's funny some people's lives are being turned upside down because of this.
Dr. (Fast Eddie Hussein) Matt @ 52:
oooooh daaayum!
John "THE BUSH REPUBLICAN" McCain is walking a little taller these days.... it could be because he is joining neighbor BOB and taking VIAGRA...
OR MORE LIKELY......... it is because he has finally pulled these 3 IDEAS OUT OF HIS ASS...... hopefully without suffering any papercuts
karl @ 53:
Not only that - the last significant breakthrough development in batteries (what we currently have) happened in the early 1900's - Since then NO ONE - no matter how much money automotive companies, et al throw at it can get a battery to do what McCain is promising.
Gerald Gibson @ 43:
James Lovelock in his book "The Revenge of the Gaia" agrees with you (and so do I).
The only way to meet the future energy demands of the world is through nuclear energy, no other sources will meet these demands fast enough, efficiently, and safely.
Gerald Gibson @ 55:
No...I didn't know that...one thing I can say about Ron Paul's supporters...they are very enthusiastic, and capable of raising money in a hurry. And having known a few of them personally...expert beer drinkers! They damn near drank me under the table.
The Exotic Chico Hussein Escuela @ 44:
Of course tritium is easily manufactured by bombarding Lithium with neutrons but then no one knows how to make a fusion reactor anyway so I'll stick with conventional nuclear technology as the the least environmentally destructive technology.
The oil futures market speculators have made billions and billions of dollars off of Americans with the totally unregulated electronic trades, since Bush deregulated it in January 2006. They simply buy futures contracts, which create an artificial added demand for oil on the spot market, which raises the price a little, then wait for Bush or Cheney to rattle their sabers and threaten to bomb Iran, and this jacks up the oil prices much more. This spiral of greed has been going on for at least two years now. Hedge funds, pension funds, banks, speculators and even oil companies have jumped on this greed bandwagon. Totally shut down these unregulated oil futures markets and this price of oil and gas will drop in half in a month. A few more weeks after that, the price of gasoline in the USA will be back down to about %1.75/gallon. For more info, search on terms, "oil futures speculation." With this McSame's already slim chances to be elected President will be nil/null/zilch, when Congress closes the unregulated oil futures trading markets and the price of gasoline falls in half in a month. Bush and Gramm are the causes of this speculation problem Both are tied to McCain. Cheers.
karl @ 60:
Excellent article indeed!
From it:
ANTONIA JUHASZ, AUTHOR AND OIL POLICY ANALYST: I would say that the biggest culprit right now is speculation, and not just the fact of speculation, but speculation taking place on unregulated exchanges, speculation taking place essentially in a market free-for-all, so that we definitely are seeing not only rampant speculation, but we're also seeing criminal speculation, that we're seeing a manipulation of the market, and we're seeing the price being driven further and further and further up for just one very simple reason: lots and lots of people are making money off this. When you have supply exceeding demand, yet price is still skyrocketing, there's clearly something else going on. And the reason why there is excess supply is that the oil tomorrow is worth more than oil today. So we've got oil companies and countries and others sitting on their spare supply, waiting for it to garner more money. The US regulators themselves are identifying cases of intentional manipulation of price by, among others, companies like Marathon, BP, Shell, that the oil companies themselves are involved in manipulation.
THIS should be the primary focus of oil price discussions (short term). Period.
Underground Pirate @ 34:
Hogwash, hybrid cars are not bad and it doesn't take 100,000 miles to negate the extra carbon consumed in production, especially if you are talking about the Toyota Prius. You're not quoting the widely debunked CNW Marketing Research study are you?
That said, hybrid cars aren't the answer to everything, so if you want to buy a Toyota Aeron, knock yourself out.
Keith, stop wearing glasses that make you look like a dick.
Does Keith Olbermann use scented paper?
America wants to know!
Has McCranky mentioned anything about what the rest of the world needs to do as well, or how he will bring about a multilateral policy agreement on global resources and warming? There is no way this country can do it alone, not with Asia not on board. I doubt supporting and extending Operation F**k U* in Iraq is going to impress anyone in Asia either.
Olbermann is ridiculous. He simply tries WAY too hard. He's full of himself without justification. He's neither clever nor insightful.
You don't answer Bill O'Reilly with another Bill O'Reilly. You answer it with real journalism. Simply parroting a catch phrase from Edward R. Murrow doesn't cut it.
And, Keith, Ashley Banfield called. She wants her glasses back.
http://www.blackmarketgold.com/pix/ashleigh_banfield_011703.jpg
I think KO looks fine in those glasses.
Now all he needs to do is shave the sides of his head, wear a couple of earrings, grow a wispy 6 inch long goatee, and would a couple of tattoos kill ya?
$300 million is a joke. It wont even pay just the retirement fund of just one single exon oil baron. They stand to make trillions.
Hedging, speculating, etc, it's all just a realtime Monopoly game to them.
Banks own us with their phoney paper they print at will. But even their own phoney paper is devaluating cause of their lies, speculations, manipulation, and decitefullness.
The more money we put into the hands of the few, the worse it gets. That's a fact.
Pete @ 73:
Please...Olberman is on point, certainly no O'Reilly by any means...Olbermann=truth and journalistic integrity...O'Reilly=blatant propaganda and ZERO integrity of ANY kind.
I don't always agree with Olbermann...but I can guaran-damn-tee ya I never agree with that fascist propagandist piece of SHIT falafel boy.
ysbaddaden @ 74:
Don't forget a big fat nose ring...
Can Olbermann remember for at least one second that he is supposed to be a journalist and talk about Fisa and Obama's position?
liberalDAPofDESTINYmoderation @ 77:
Don't forget a big fat nose ring...
I prefer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIXlg97E9J0
Pete @ 73:
For those who live outside the Greater New York area who don't get the joke of Keith holding up the papers in front of his mouth while saying "$300 million dollars":
There is a series of TV commercials for the New York Lottery where an announcer (who looks kinda like a younger Rudy Giuliani) will loudly declare the current week's big jackpot, usually with a sheet of paper or a microphone to obscure his mouth so that they can change the dollar amount with a voiceover, rather than shooting new takes for every possible dollar amount.
I must admit, I am a bit befuddled by the responses of many people here who are left leaning, progressive, whatever. The way they are giving knee-jerk opposition to anything a Republican says is absolutely Pavlovian. Oh, and it's wrong.
First of all, the most promising alternate energy is wind, with solar as a close second. And the primary purpose of these technologies is to generate electricity. So while people are all obsessed with electric cars being a trojan horse for nuclear power, they should see it as a way for wind and solar to replace petroleum as the fuel source for automobiles. Second, an electric car with a small on-board generator to recharge the battery (like the planned Chevy Volt) is a vastly superior concept to a hybrid (sorry Prius owners). Why? Because a kilowatt of energy generated at a large utility plant produces less CO2 than the same kilowatt of energy produced in an individual internal combustion engine; even a hybrid. It's because of the economy of scale of the huge plant. And if the electrical grid has a significant renewable component to it, then the comparison is a slam dunk. People who understand the technology know this. People who do not are simply lining up on their respective political sides. Same-ole-same-ole.
What does some Swede named Ole have to do with anything?
Do you know that McCain uses Bush's same audience the have to fly to every event. The same 20% that never miss a baseball game are the ones driving up prices. It is so simple the people who own 80% of the wealth have to do no work, that is why most of them get 60 days vaacation every year.
Use Your Brains @ 82:
I agree with you about the Volt comment, but.........so far the Volt is nothing but vaporware. I'll believe it when I see it in production. You have to give credit to Toyota for at least getting a semi-efficient hybrid system into production for many years. Their hybrids aren't perfect, but at least they are a damn sight better than the Detroit gas guzzlers.
I hate this cheesy prize crap. Just put that $300m into proper R&D to develop workable, scalable hydrogen fuel cell solutions, or other competing technologies.
If there were "grid" cars, their mass introduction MUST, MUST, MUST be paired with large-scale solar, wind and tide energy production to account for the increased demand, and preferably, long-term, account for 80% of the grid (see Spain showing first-hand how this is more than possible).
Widespread nuclear is *not* a solution until the cost to send radioactive waste off-planet is minimal, and that will likely be a few hundred years yet...
Supporting McSame on gas prices and the environment is a lot like owning a huge SUV with 2 bumper stickers saying "Support Our Troops" and "Think Green".
If you want to see a better hybrid car then take a look at this:
http://www.artemisip.com/appli_auto_transm.htm
No heavy toxic battery - it uses a hydraulic accumulator. Much better power density that a battery and virtually instantaneous access to power. The technology is conservative and very well proven.
They did a prototype 5 Series BMW and it gets 50% better fuel economy and pollution based on the European Standardized drive cycle. I don't understand why the big three and the media aren't breaking down their doors.
I've driven the thing and it goes like a scaled cat while getting virtually twice the Bimmers fuel economy.
The f-ing battery we need was already developed......in the early 90's. It's called the EV-95 NiMH, developed by Stan and Iris Ovshinsky who sold the patent to GM in 1994. They used it in the second generation EV1 battery packs with much success and 100+ mile range. Toyota also used it in the Rav4 EV that was sold in California for three years. Many of these RAV4's are still going strong with over 100,000 miles logged of pure electric power.
When California dropped ZEV standards, GM dumped the battery to Texaco in 2000 and killed the electric car program. Once Texaco had the rights to this battery, Chevron bought them less than a week later so they could stop all production and kill this technology.
So, any patent experts out there? GM purchased the patent in 1994, of a design from 1990. How many years does Chevron get to squash this technology and force work arounds with inferior Lithium Ion batteries? It's an 18 year old design that that GM could really use in their Volt design, that currently has no battery that can meet design specifications. How many other patents do these companies have squirreled away so no one can use them?
One other area that really needs discussion is the rollback of some of the regulations (crash standards, bumper standards) that add very significant amounts of weight to vehicles. Of course, heavier vehicles require more energy to put in motion. Many of the smaller cars in Europe ans Asia, while lighter and fuel efficient, cannot meet current US safety standards, even with modifications.
Of course, just throwing small cars in to the current mix of big SUVs, land barges, and big rigs will result in many injuries and death; it cannot be done overnight. But if our goal is to switch to smaller, more efficient cars like most of the world uses, weight (and some safety standards) will have to be reduced.
Hopefully we will have bright people in our agencies to make this happen as safely as possible.
UbuRoi @ 89:
Interesting link.
More efforts toward this type of technology need to be encouraged. Cutting oil company tax breaks would be a good place to start.
fastfeat @ 91:
Two words: Carbon Fiber Cars.
miss_kitty @ 93:
Agreed about weight savings and strength; we'd need to get costs down for the mass market.
Did anyone notice the sweet, probably quarter-million dollar sportscar in the background when McCain walked to and from the lectern? Ironic much?
Here is something which is yet to be said: More than 90% of all basic research that is done in the US is funded by the US government. The rights to the invention are then conveyed to the inventor by the Bayh-Dole act. This additional 300 million prize money means nothing to the inventors because they will own the invention, and can license it for much more than that. But I am sure they would welcome the prize as a bonus. However, the real problem isn’t that. The problem is: Who will pay for the research that needs to be done? Ask any scientist and they will tell you, that without government funding, this battery search is not even worth mentioning. There aren't any additional monies available for research into bold new things these days. Unless, we sacrifice some current projects, end the wars, or increase the deficit. Currently all the science agencies’ budgets have been slashed except for projects related to weapons research. Mr. McCain needs to explain who is going to pay for this research, and how. No company will put up the kind of money required for this without getting even larger sums of grant monies from the government. Unfortunately, lobbyists have already told our politicians how to vote on alternate fuels, so getting congress to increase research funding in this area is a very long shot. Therefore how can Mr. McCain say that this isn't pandering or a gimmick? He would have been better served proposing research funding increases for this battery.
philpm @ 95:
Did see it--sweet. Maybe the Tesla?
Holy Jeez, a $300,000,000,
How bigga ipod will it power?
Will it be used to power up cheney?
Can I put my tongue on its electrodes ?
wheeee @ 98:
No, but there are some guys in Abu Ghraib who will do it for ya.
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