Race To The White House: For Joe Scarborough, When All Else Fails, Insult As Much As Possible
By Nicole Belle Thursday Jul 03, 2008 5:00pm
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I've never hidden my deep and abiding love for Rachel Maddow as a pundit and am so glad for the recognition she's due. Armed with facts and wit, she can run circles around all these other talking heads without breaking a sweat. Maybe that's why the MSNBC bookers saw fit to match her to four conservatives on Race To The White House: Substitute host Joe Scarborough, Tony Blankley, Michelle Bernard (who has of late been the omnipresent guest on all MSNBC shows), and former Scarborough Country and Hardball producer Noah Oppenheim, now the author of The Intellectual Devotional.
But the taker of the proverbial cake has to be Scarborough, who compensates for his general wrongness of position by a steady stream of snide and dismissive remarks. In a discussion focused around the media-driven narrative that Barack Obama has flip-flopped in his positions (they LOVE that word, have you noticed?) and is rushing to the center, Rachel is the lone voice from the left pointing out that his rhetoric has not changed radically and that he has always advocated a centrist ("post-partisan," I think it was called) position and Scarborough both sneers at Rachel for pointing this out and cheers Obama for taking a more "responsible" stance. When poll after poll finds that the majority of Americans think we should get out of Iraq, Scarborough thinks it will reassure Middle America if Obama slows down the withdrawal.
Were I running John McCain…er, were I, were I running Barack Obama’s campaign, I would tell him to do this. Because I think this actually reassures Americans, okay this guy said what he needed to say to win the far left in the primary and now as he moves to the general election, he’s getting more responsible on FISA, he’s getting more responsible on troop withdrawal. Doesn’t this make middle Americans in Ohio and West Virginia and Pennsylvania like Barack Obama more?
Yeah, everyone feels much better when we move to the right...that's why the GOP brand is suffering so much. Rachel tries again:
I think the important thing to recognize here is that there's a difference between taking a centrist position because it's good for the general election and changing his position. What I'm saying about this Iraq stuff is not that Barack Obama secretly has a left position on Iraq that nobody else recognizes. I'm saying his position on Iraq is very centrist and has been all along and is not changing. This was the position his campaign was taking through the primaries and we have ascribed a much more liberal policy to him, but when you go back and you look at the tape and you go back and look at the statements from his campaign, all the way back through the spring, all the way back when they were attacking Hillary Clinton for having a plan for withdrawal that wasn't subject to conditions on the ground, it shows you that this is where he's been all along. You can call it centrist, but it's still consistent.
And The Scar's response?
You might support Obama, but you have the "Clinton cackle" down, Rachel.
Classy to the last, Joe.
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Rachel, you rock.
I don't think Joe Scarborough EVER should be introduced without reference to the young, attractive, female intern who died under unexplained circumstances in his Florida office.
woody, tokin librul @ 2:
That's not fair. At least let him explain... So Joe? Tell us about the young, attractive, dead, female intern in your Florida Office. Well? Joe? Anything?
Don't care about TV.
Care about this country and its fundamental purposes. Individual freedom. That sort of thing.
Joe says X. Rachel says Y.
Don't care.
Care about this country and its fundamental purposes. Individual freedom. That sort of thing.
Is this journalism? How sad.
fiver @ 3:
Wouldn't wanna be "unfair," of course...We'll follow your protocol. Works for me...
Thomas Stone @ 5:
No...
No it's not 'journalism.'
It's 'punditry.'
Useless babble.
Turn your TV's off and DO something positive and productive.
Thats the way you bring the kind of change this country needs.
What an A. S. S.
But, that is nothing new.
Rachel Maddow can out think Joe Scarborough while hooked to a Valium IV. Didn't he walk off a program to sulk some other time after she destroyed his point? And he is a former congressman. What an empty headed twit. Hey MSNBC, why don't you find someone who can actually think through his points instead of just getting snotty and sulky.
I was offended by that repugnit remark. How insulting. Joe has a history of not being able to counter Rachel respectfully. Remember when he walked off before on the show?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0C-4bm6Ilo
Rachel: "Let me make my point before you dismiss me."
[Deleted. Off topic-Sitemonitor]
OMG! She kicks Joe's ass so badly he now needs 3 conservatives to support him and when he loses he has to take a vote! And she still kicks his ass. bwaAHAHAAHAAHAH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH. That was funny.
Is it not amazing that the television pundits that proclaimed so loudly that Obama was an agent of change are now backpeddling furiously to identify him as "always being center"?? I know you just HAVE to get a Dem elected, but talk about absurd. He's went from being the new revolution sweeping the nation on the left, to, well he's always been half left, half right.
.
THIS is why I don't have cable.
When the great ignorence is switched on this coming Feb of 2009, I may even loose my local newz infotainment.
.
Rachel you are one heck of a woman. You are the BEST!!!!!
"How many here agree with Rachel that the world is round?
"Show of hands?
"Nobody?
"That settles it the world is flat!"
Such is discourse in America today, the facts are voted out by a rigged jury.
Why is that these talking heads never say the Republican candidate needs to "move to the center" to win?
DJ @ 18:
When they say center they mean right. The so called "Center" in this country is considered far right in every European country and most of the rest of the planet.
"I’m saying his position on Iraq is very centrist and has been all along...." -Maddow
I think I said that back in December right here but nobody was listening. All I got back was "he's the only one who opposed the war from the beginning."
Well now we see what happened to Clinton and Edwards and everyone of the 29 Democratic Senators who voted "aye".
They had an electorate to face and made a political decision that superseded the ethical one.
Welcome to the real world, Mr. Obama. How's that workin out for ya?
American "journalism" is nothing more than right wing blow hards spouting their ignorance. The U.S. has no legitimate 4th Estate for the citizenry. That's just the way the corporations want it.
The "scab" still sniffs bush's jockstrap - and gets energized when he does. What a right-wing tool!
Of course Scarborough thinks the American public wants to stay in Iraq. These people really are completely convinced that the polls are all wrong and that the vast majority of America thinks exactly like they do.
I've spoken with 26%ers and the Republican candidates for Congress in my district and they all say the same thing with the same conviction: 80% of America believes what we believe, we will win the House, Senate, and Presidency in November.
Delusional, just like Dukakis said.
This is one of the reasons I no longer watch this show and MSNBC should be embarrassed that they allowed this to go on.
Joe Scarborough has a problem with strong women. Look what he did to his co-host Mika I have no opinion of my own Brzezinski. At one point they appeared to be too cozy. Know one knew he had baby on the way until the baby came too early. And know knew she had a husband until she recently started bringing him up.
Oh for the days of Edmund Burke.
Although he was a monarchist, he was English and therefore anti-French. But when he described the new Queen of France, Marie Antoinette of Austria appearing on some grand stairs, in a nimbus of light, and all the sabres of the men-at-arms raising their sabres from their scabbards simultaneously, it was almost erotic.
Such an ass. I watched this clip earlier, and honest to God, he is such a pig. Your title hits it right on the head. Why does Rachel have to be matched up with that disgusting, lying sack of shit??
Johnny2Bad @ 19:
What are you saying, Johnny2Bad? That Obama's being smeared? Because he's being smeared by the left and the right, if you- of all people- haven't noticed. That you don't like his "wait and see" stance on this? It's not that different than Edwards', iirc, the difference being that Edwards said he hoped to draw down to a brigade-sized force by a certain date.
I can not watch any of that crap. I see these clips on C&L and I think, "Yup, mostly knuckle dragging eejits and bampots with the occasional, outnumbered liberal having the microphone cut off or having the rightwinger run off to his greenroom crying...yecccch!
Here's Maddow on Obama...Making the same point...Painting Obama a "centrist".
"I think if this was a pure liberal candidacy we'd be talking about single-payer healthcare, we'd be talking about prosecuting members of the current administration for war crimes, we'd be talking about abolishing the death penalty. I mean, I can dream up a liberal candidacy for you. I would have to dream it, though, because Barack Obama is not that guy."
Hmm. Single payer, war crimes trials, no death penalty...Hey, sounds good to me.
Oopppss. "...Barrack Obama is not that guy".
Pity.
Didn't Scarborough kill one of his interns?
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 32:
No Jay, he didn't "Kill" anyone. That I know of. His intern was found dead in his office in Florida. They say he was in DC when it happened. But the medical examiner was fired for malfeasance.
Obama is DLC. In other words, a Clinton, Lieberman, Democrat.
Pretty much every one of these clips goes as follows:
Scartissue: Okay, Rachel, let's hear from the liberal we're obliged to have on here. Go ahead, spew your nonsense.
Rachel: Actually, Joe, I can make a clear, cogent argument for my side. The facts are that----
Scartissue: Nope, the facts are on my side no matter what. I'll give you the last word, though.
Rachel: I would have appreciated your not interrupting, but I'll take the last word. The facts are that-----
Scartissue: Oh, you should just be grateful we let your kind on here at all. Thank you, and goodnight.
Sad to see Rachel treated like that.
Perhaps rather than giving a progressive voice, MSNBC/GE wanted a progressive punching bag. They had to take a little while and let Rachel speak for the last several months before they began the ridicule.
Happy Independence Day, everybody. Coincidentally, 200 more days until he's gone.
Maybe MSNBC can fire Joe next, after all Rity empty head Cosby is history and Tucker empty suit Carlson has already lost his waste of sixty minutes show (Wanna bet he is gone once his contract runs out?).
You all watched the results of Scabbie's contract negotiations this past month.....he will not go on MSNBC on the same level as Maddow...he will host. Obviously he was burned too many times on Race and demands his being senior. Pat Buchanan gets clobbered by her repeatedly....and Scabbie as well....but now he get's the last word. Shame on MSNBC for kowtowing to 'his largeness' over Rachel....expected but not desirable....but the network that let's Andrea Mitchell get away with her blatant lies let's Scabbie live....to everyone's detriment...then again Andrea has been shacking up with Alan Greenspan as husband/wife for 11 years....of course she will spout the conservative line......as MSNBC does not want to lose that 'connection'.
By the repugs logic, since every thing is going so well in Iraq why shouldn't we be withdrawing from there?
I mean c'mon. Things are going swimmingly. So lets get the hell outta there already. Oh , that's right , the oil.
sadly, you are disagreeing with Rachel when you write this, and apparently, buying into the lie that Obama has "moved to the right" on this issue. he has not. nothing about his position is any different than it was 2002 - 2008. same. end of story.
I saw the first part of this show, Maddow took Scar to the woodshed. He wasn't about to let her win.
Attila the Neopopulist, no Stomach for Imperial Adventures @ 32:
you're an idiot who doesn't know what they're talking about. troll.
Joe is a spineless coward reduced to taking a poll amoung conservatives to keep Rachel down. He's a dillweed.
Joe Scarborough missed the birth canal and was born
out the backdoor, dropped out on his head and was
left with a permanent IQ of 29. he can't tell the truth,
so being condescending and disrespectful is all he has.
onceler @ 39:
Yep. As he has said...the same as Hillary on "99% of the issues".
Genitalia excluded...What's the difference again?
Johnny2Bad @ 29:
And again: What's your point? Because I know where you're coming from- or at least I know that you constantly hammer Obama, why you do...well, I'm not so sure about your motivations- but these last few posts aren't really making your opinion of this all that clear.
Rachel Maddow has adopted the annoying Republican practice of laughing through everyone else's comments. I guess when you are a shill for an empty suit like Obama an empty laugh is the best you can do.
Rachel is very smart. Smart enough to know that being an Obamabot means career advancement on MSNBC.
BTW, I can't stand Scarborough. I've always thought the investigation of the tragic death of that young lady in his Florida office was a cover up.
dadams @ 43:
Are you calling Scarburro an asshole baby?
couldn't agree more.
OK site monitor, go ahead.
As long as Rachael Maddow is an effective apologist for obama -- you're gonna love her --- so did I --- LAST YEAR..........but for my buck she fell in line with Keith O and bashed the fuck out of the Clintons. So impressed with Rachael --- not so much. It's always about whose ox is getting it raw, afterall. But what would you do if she actually said , WELL DAMN, HE IS MOVING AWAY FROM HIS PROMISES AND ORGINIAL POSITIONS....like all politicians. If it was Hillary now in the driverseat and she was changing her mind on the war, fisa, blah blah blah ---------- you would be screaming ---- or not???
ConcernedCanuck @ 14:
Very good point. While Nicole Belle noted Scarborough's derisive manner, she fails to point out that Rachel Maddow, whom she lavishly praises, simply states that Obama has adopted and, according to her, maintained a centrist position in an apparent attempt to attract voters for his cause. But nowhere does Ms. Maddow say whether this is a good thing for Obama to do. With Obama's shifting positions on FISA, faith based initiatives, wearing a flag pin on his lapel and now reserving his position on how many brigades he wishes to withdraw a month from Iraq [not exactly the best way of supporting the troops], Obama will soon be to the right of Bush if not also McCain. Behold Barack Obama. His motto: placing party over principle.
How many mouth breathers are going to believe scar won the debate?
We have a few "liberals" on this site who also seemed to have learned the art of debate by watching hillbilly slap fights on Jerry Springer.
I emailed the show seconds after Scarborough's offensive behavior and told them with all the elegance I could muster exactly what I thought of his boorishness...not that it will do any good, but it made me feel better.
It goes to show how important the moderator is. David Gregory runs an uniquely thoughtful show. Scarborough is sometimes a guest and that's OK; he has a role, but as moderator it's just more of the same. I thought Gregory had invented a new formula, but it turns out it's the moderator.
onceler @ 39:
I was being sarcastic. I thought that was clear by the second part of the sentence remarking how even Republicans think the GOP brand has been damaged.
I've said before--to an enormous amount of abuse by commenters on this site--that nothing in Obama's past voting record or rhetoric would lead me to believe that he is a "liberal" candidate and anything other than the same safe, centrist politician that many on this site derided and scorned Hillary Clinton for.
And to Douglas in Oklahoma, yes, I would be going after Hillary Clinton just as vehemently if she had taken Obama's position on FISA. One of the reasons that we did not choose to endorse a Democratic candidate on this site was because we were interested in championing principles, not individuals.
And Erroll, my focus in this particular post is media framing. I have my own reservations about Obama's tactics, but that would make this post unwieldy to get into. In a year when you are seeing record disapproval ratings for the White House and a public attitude that the GOP has hurt the country, trying to appeal to the right seems counterintuitive to me. I'm also a big believer in the political axiom that you dance with those that brung you and it is the lefty netroots that really mobilized this win for Obama. Wisdom should dictate that since we brought him to the dance, he should feel obligated to keep us enchanted.
douglas in oklahoma @ 48:
What did KO say about the Clintons that was wrong and far as Rachel Maddow joining keith are you serious
Paul @ 52:
I was in press with David Gregory until this show. But not any more when Scarborough is on he basicly allows him to do what ever he wants
L.A. Confidential @ 8:
Exactly!!
I don't give a rat's ass what any of these people think---including Rachel. Sorry Rach, but you essentially do the same thing the evil rightwingnuts do: talk endlessly.
Let's quit listening to the chattering class, and work to make our country better!
I, too, e-mailed the network and expressed my displeasure with Joe "Lori Klausutis, who's she?" Scarborough. Doubt that it will do much good.
Johnny2Bad @ 44:
The difference is that Obama ran an organized campaign. That he didn't take silly pot shots at his opponent, that he didn't praise the republican nominee at the expense of his opponent, that he responds to the inevitable smears from the MSM with strong reasoned arguments but not by whining about racism (or as Clinton did sexism) and that he doesn't tell lies about his record or positions (as Clinton did with NAFTA and Bosnia). Also, he doesn't alienate over 1/3 of the electorate with irrational hatred the way the Clintons do. To me those are real differences. But I completely agree and have also always said that he is a centrist democrat with positions not that different from Clinton. Given that this country has let Neocons steal the last two elections and that we are closer to facism than I ever believed possible in my life time I think a centrist democrat is the best we can hope for. What would you suggest as an alternative?
mudshark @ 47:
a loud resounding YES
{FIFY SiteMonitor}
While reading the comments on this thread, Clarence Page on the Leher Newshour was quoting one of my favorite commentators, Ambrose Bierce, on the nature of conservatism and liberalism.
"Conservatives are happy with existing evils; liberals look for new evils."
Communication terminated.
Rachel is way to smart for Joe. There is no way she would have fallen for the prank that Gov. Schwarzenegger wanted to blow up the moon.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=29&art_id=qw11157008434...
Scarbozo fell for it.
Race to the White House? That's the name of this stacked deck? Well, MSNBC never claimed to be fair and balanced, I guess. But I can't believe that Rachel Maddow would agree to go on that schmuck's program again. My guess is Scarborough stayed up late the night before thinking up insults he could use on Maddow, and the best he could come up with was call her laugh a "cackle." What a misogynist pig. MSNBC should fire him.
Also, did you know that 28-year-old Lori Klausutis died in Joe Scarborough's office in Florida? The reason for her death was never determined.
John Kiel @ 56:
Yeah, uhm...If you were living in the US in, say, the mid-1780's would you ask Hamilton and Madison to shut up about a constitution?
Obviously the LCD rules these days, but the electorate isn't made up of landed males of at least 25 years of age....but still, you've gotta use the media to get your message out.
VietVet8666 @ 4, I'm with you. Haven't watched much TV in 20 years and am the better for it. What's important is LIBERTY!
As to the Scar(with the dead intern in his office) talking about middle America I'd have to say he doesn't have a clue about middle America and it shows.
John Kiel @ 56:
I agree about the other pundits but not Rachel. I also don't have cable or watch TV so I never see her on MSNBC and almost always skip the first hour of her podcast which is a simulcast of the MSNBC audio. But the last two hours of her radio show are the best audio political commentary anywhere. Its thoughtful and she has great guests and asks them intelligent questions and is also quite funny. IMHO Rachel is definitely one of the good gals, taking the media and using it to truly educate and inform people.
Joe sucks at everything he does in life. He is a failure at everything he does in life...but sucking.
He is great at sucking. Punditry shumditry... One is just as ignorant as the next. Rachel Rocks...but
david gregory is like a high school cheerleader and gene robinson is too gay for my gay heart.
Lou Fah @ 61:
*too
Man, Joe hates Rachel SO much it's palpable. He's too stupid even to keep his disgust for her under wraps. It's just out there. She's smarter than him, so he hates her. She knows her facts and calls his bullshit, so he hates her. She's right most of the time, so he hates her. She doesn't let him belittle her, so he hates her. But I think the biggest reason he hates her is because she's a lesbian and he knows she can get SCORES more chicks than he can and never has to pay for her booty calls. I'm positive of this. Shit, I'm a straight girl and I'd choose Rachel EVERY TIME over Beeker-Muppet-murderer-Joey-Scarredbutthole.
HOW PATHETIC is he that he has to round up three of his cronies to gang up on her? HOW CHILDISH is he that he has to create a lame-ass-raise-yer-hand vote to show how much more popular he is than her at that moment? HOW MANY DICKS DID HE HAVE TO SUCK to get the moderator position on there when he's an asshole, a non-journalist, and as unattractive as a used maxi pad on the dinner table? Joe Scarborough is a waste of human matter. He just needs to go away and let the adults talk.
To MSNBC: You confuse the hell out of me. You could be so good! You have the talent, you have an election season that's got actual issues to address, you just need to rid themselves of the moronic chaff you have such huge crushes on. Grow up and be a news network, for Chrissakes!
MSNBC has been great in their programs that Olbermann and Dan Abrams do. It really makes me feel as though I have a Cable Network that I can listen to, and not want to pull my hair out. Unfortunately there are still people like Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough there. I take them with a grain of salt, but I'm getting bald in the process. Scarborough is so anti female. I honestly believe he's so terribly intimidated by any woman, other than the butt kissing Nika. It's heart breaking watching the disrespect Rachel is subjected to. It sure was a pleasant break having Scarborough gone for a while. Too bad it wasn't permanent!
Joe is clearly threatened by her. Every time I've seen them on screen together he gets like this. He's a classic sexist. Rachael should not be put on his show. It does nothing for her.
I do love Rachel(and Nicole too), but there is no doubt that Obama made a strong shift to the right when he went from promising to filibuster any FISA bill that contained retroactive immunity to saying he really didn't like that part of the bill and would "try" to remove it. And that's not even a centrist postition but a right wing position.
Race to the Whitehouse sucks. It's all horse race bullshit, and Rachel Maddow is just another part of it. She engages in just as much crap about what such and so "development" or whatever "means" to one campaign or another. Mind reader bullshit. She has just become one of them. She is right more often than the others, but this horserace game is bullshit and anyone who participates in it is bullshit, including Maddow. Pat Buchannan is often on with her at night, and it's same, same, same. TV spew.
I turn the channel whenever I see the idiot Joe or Chris. Used to turn it when Russert was on, but now less wear and tear on my remote. Joe is an ass, as are most of what MSNBC programs. Rather watch my bird feeder than these bottom feeders.
Terrible @ 71:
Point well taken. One can also include in his "strong shift to the right" his desire to leave wiggle room on how many troops he will be pulling out of Iraq from his phased [as opposed to immediate] withdrawal plan. The longer those troops remain in that abattoir, the greater their chances that they end up in a wheelchair paralyzed from the neck down or brain damaged from the explosion from an IED. As I stated at comment #49, it would appear that Obama's motto [and the Democrats] should be: party over principle.
Well, my comment is off topic so excuse me for that.
All I have to say is this is an ugly, yet reliable place where anyone can read news from! Kudos to CrooksAndLiars!
Ugh, Morning Joe is disgusting, smarmy and an all-around douche.
NBC News Comment Line # is 212-664-3499
Leave a nice message.
I hope they don't have big plans for Morning Joe.
68 katie
...And as unattractive as a used maxi pad on the dinner table?
I'm sure that would be favored as an aperatif by Count Dracula
Or at least Countess Carmillia.
ysbaddaden @ 77:
Any interested vampires are welcome to Scarborough as far as I'm concerned...
[Alright, folks, let's not go around advocating vampirism at the site. *snark* Site Monitor :D]
ysbaddaden @ 77:
BLEH!!! oh man. That was nasty ugh,aghhhh. yuck!
And I think it's Camilla. but still AGGGHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
damn.
Joe is a complete jerk. No surprise since he is a Repub. Lame comebacks and no winning arguments. Again a true trait of a Repub.
Andy K Jong Il @ 63:
C'mon, Andy, Rachel isn't Hamilton or Madison.
As someone said in a previous post: "Scartissue says X, Rachel says Y." It's tit for tat, each one trying to outdo the other, and no one changes his/her mind. It's pointless.
No one who listens to and agrees with people like Scartissue is going to change, no matter what someone else says.
Haha, that means Joe the killer failed!
ysbaddaden @ 60:
Yeah, and that's why W and Condi were talking about the big threat of missiles from Russia before 9-11 and paying no attention to all those warnings about terrorists and Osama. Remember? what was the speech Condi was scheduled to give on 9-11 about... missile attacks.
I would rephrase that quote... "Conservatives are happy with existing evils"... as long as they're happening to someone else. It's ok for companies to push faulty products... as long as it doesn't kill someone I know and love -- so we don't need government regulations for product or food safety. And we shouldn't look into stem cell research... unless I get or someone I know gets a horrible, incurable disease... like when Ronnie Reagan got Alzheimers.
Conservatives think "I/me/mine" until something bad happens to them... then suddenly they want the help and services that they didn't believe in before. Liberals try to fix the existing evils and prevent new ones. They ask questions, they look at potential outcomes and possible effects and they try to plan for the best possible result. Do you really think that's a bad thing?
Why 'flip folpping' is not used by the media to describe Republicans,like McCain for example, and only used to describe Democrats like Kerry and Obama , when in fact McCain already broke all records of 'flip flopping'..?
Scarborough is not going to be a fair journalist being an ex-Republican Congressman...even if he tries to be.
He is not a even journalist to begin with...!!
79 mudshark
We're both wrong, it was Countess Carmilia Karnstein. For much of the book she went under the anagram Mircala (is it one or two l's?) Later in Stoker's book, Dracula did much the same thing by signing real estate papers in their offices during the day as Count DeVille for his various scattered English landholdings.
DeVille sounds like devil, which Dracula means Dracul (devil or dragon) eah (son of).]
If you thought that reference was nasty, be glad my vampire novel is still stuck between my old Commodore and what I have now.
I finished it in 1995, and still haven't edited the damn thing. It was around 640 handwritten pages, but I'm not sure typed.
My vampires drink all of human juices, although I drew the line at excrement.
I let my film instructor read the first chapter and he told me it was borderline pornographic. I just laughed, and shook my head and said if you think that was bad, you should see the rest of my book.
It was while I was working on the book that I developed a strong thirst for burgundy wine, often drank out of Halloween cups shaped like a human skull.
I think the problem was I plunged so deeply into my own Jungian shadow-self, that I drove myself a little mad, and now I'm leery on returning to it.
At one point I was almost becoming suicidal.
BREAKING NEWS!!! Scarborough is a putz! - remember...you heard it here first!
Poor Rachel, surrounded by fools. She deserves better, at least one other pundit with some common sense.
John Kiel @ 81:
Given that this isn't The Federalist Papers we're talking about here, but it is about electing the next President of the Nation at a crucial time in it's history.
And the problem here isn't "x" vs. "y". It's that Scarborough is pulling "x" (Obama's *cough* "flip-flop") out of his ass and Maddow is calling him on it.
And while I think that you're right that no one who listens to and agrees with Scarborough- and Scarborough alone- would heed Maddow, there are 3 others on the platform agreeing with Scarborough. And that MOTR, independent voter who doesn't scour the internet for news, who instead relies on the conventional wisdom of the MSM to form his or her opinion (and that's most of the people I know), is done a disservice if there isn't someone like Maddow to point out the lies and smears.
"its history"
Isn't it funny how every exchange between liberal and conservative commentators results in the liberal saying:
"My candidate is a centrist, not a liberal."
While it might be technically correct that Maddow *won* this debate, anyone who thinks Scarborough and his side lost is an idiot.
ysbaddaden @ 85:
I knew you were a writer of some kind.
As for your last sentence. I'm glad that's an "almost".
You have a lot of value brother, and don't let anything lead you to believe otherwise.
but still, that was Nasty . : )
I'd like to read your book. It's sounds very interesting. After all, Dracula was a nasty mofo.
And about Camilla, I thought you were referring to Chuckie's new wife.(it's a British thing)
Joe the beady eyed asshole who voted for impeachment over a blow job , but thinks W should be left alone . Rachel always kicks his feeble ass and always will .
MikeD @ 58:
Ok....That's the campaign stuff. Primary horse race minutia. Fine. But brother, that's o-v-e-r. And yes, he did run an effective primary campaign but it was based based on a few well turned catch phrases and the whole "collective redemption" tag the Right has hung on him (not without cause).
But again...that's over. Now that he has to put up his own actual policy positions and its been extremely problematic for the early adopters. Their song is now "Better than McCain" or "...the best we can hope for". A far cry from "Yes We Can" and "Change We Can Believe In". Its pretty simple for him now: from an '07 New Yorker profile there's this:
"...but to Obama it seemed only one more proof that charisma is misleading, that revolutions are illusory, that real change is slow. Now that he is running for office himself, it is likely he knows he can be as much harmed as lifted up by celestial expectations, so he tries, in small ways, to discourage them."
Its pretty clear we can't believe in his primary campaign's kind of "celestial" change but he created the expectations himself. Whether he can tamp them back down and still win in November is anyone's guess.
(BTW...NYT had a editorial on the subject today)
83 Del Tweed
Oh I remember. prince georgie was trying to bring back SDI (Strategeic Defense Initiative) or "Star Wars." He even broke the ABM as well as the SLBM treaties with Russia to do it.
People were arguing that the Cold War is over. Our most likeliest form of attack would be terrorism. But the scenario was usually a dirty bomb in a knapsack or briefcase. No one really thought about crashing planes into buildings.
But about a year after 9-11 60 Minutes did a story about an earlier attack where Al Qaeda operatives tried to hijack and crash a French airliner into the Eiffel Tower, but some brave French pilots threw the jet into a steep climb throwing the hijackers backwards where they were overcome.
At that point Al Qaeda decided they needed to learn to fly jets themselves, but didn't worry about learning to land them.
But I must away, my sausage casserole, Guinness and 007 awaits.
George Lazenby rulz!!!!
ysbaddaden @ 94:
Its Crabcakes, Diet Coke and Twilight Zone Marathon for me.
Adio
Johnny2Bad @ 95:
I'm on the Twilight Zone marathon, falafel and a great Bavarian Rodelseer.
In spite of our differences, we're all still pretty much the same. Happy 4th!
Rachel is the bomb.Joe insults?Surprise,surprise.What do you expect,he`s a Republican ?
Johnny2Bad @ 93:
Sorry but you never answered my question: What do you propose as an alternative? Senator Clinton? Ralph Nader? If your point is "people who think that Obama is the Mesiah and the solution to all our problems are deluded" then we are in violent agreement. My point was that Obama is the best chance the dems have and a very significant step up from the mfers who have been raping this country for the last 7 years and our best chance to start returning this country to the things it used to stand for and away from being the 4th reich.
It's clear to me that Joe can't stand Rachel. They've had dust-ups at other points as well, but this one especially irked me since he was in the host chair and has a boss-like advantage over her in the conversation.
Between the childish "show of hands" to show that Rachel was wrong (in Joe's mind) and his "Clinton's cackle" remark, I was pretty uncomfortable watching the discourse. I actually wrote a complaint email to MSNBC right after I witnessed it.
I blamed MSNBC because the host for Race To The Whitehouse isn't supposed to be pushing their opinions; that's what the panel is there for. Joe acted like a partisan panelist during the show and that wasn't supposed to be his role. When Rachel has been host, she mainly operates the show as David Gregory would. Since Joe can't seem to grasp the role of host on RFTWH, then he should no longer be allowed to do it.
maybe after obama goes to iraq, talks with patreus et al, finds out how well the surge is going, he will decide to withdraw the troops faster.
Ditto about the cackle, my head exploded when I heard that.
So in revenge, I'm going to post a link to Rachel's remarks on GOP message discipline from yesterday's show; please circulate the clip.
how come a lot of the shows on MSNBC have conservative loaded panels? MSNBC has Rachel Maddow and Keith Olbermann representing the left and Pat Buchanan, Scarborough, Michelle Bernard, and then Chris Matthews, David Gregory are hardly leftists. There's not much balance on MSNBC.
Johnny2Bad @ 93:
So, we've established that Obama and Clinton were just about even on the issues (with the exception that Clinton talked a little more belligerently about Iran). We also agree that Obama is not changing his positions, and Clinton ran a poor primary campaign. We know that Clinton still has negatives in the polls that are twice as high as Obama's. Obama has raised more money. And Clinton would have the dicey proposition of looking like a legacy candidate and having Bill (who has his own negatives) lurking around the white house.
So, tell me again why you still think Clinton would be better at beating McCain?
Rachael is so smart, just being there makes the rest of them more stupid. Why is Tony Blankly everywhere lately? His heavy breathing makes it difficult to listen to him and his reasoning defies belief. I am so glad Rachael is there, but I still can't watch those shows. I have to fast forward the clips during Joe, he is so windy.
Insulting the other candidate as much as possible reminds me of the last gubanatorial election in Virginia back in 2005, where Jerry Kilgore (R) was running against Tim Kaine (D), where Kilgore would make the most outrageous claims about Kaine trying to get elected, as well as fabricating information Tim Kaine raising the gas tax that the Virginia newspapers caught. He also made a few outlandish attack ads saying that "Kaine said that Hitler didn't deserve the death penalty", and even as a Jew myself, that still sounds bogus. Tim Kaine is just a Catholic who admires life, but has insisted he will follow thru and uphold/obey the law if someone deserves the death penalty or funding for stem cell research. As for Kilgore, I have no idea what happened to him after the election - maybe he's working at a gas station for $8 per hour. It was just bad karma for him to run such negative, and sometimes even false attack ads against Tim Kaine, where he actually won the VA gubanatorial race. Plus, Kilgore would sometimes not even show up for a few of the debates such as the one held at George Mason University, leaving just Tim Kaine debating with Russ Potts (I).
Joe Scaryborough has issues with women.
Google "lori klausutis"
What's amazing to me is that I'd seen this guy on tv for years, but never knew his story until I saw someone post google "lori klausutis".
This is the story the media does not want you to know.
Joe Scarborough; the O.J. Simpson of the pundit world?
Yup. The ONLY candidates who were ever purely anti-Iraq were Mike Gravel, Dennis Kucinich, and Ron Paul.
ALL the other dems took a moderate approach (Just like most dems in congress).
Not that I hate them for it, but I would much rather they go to the left on Iraq. Get. Us. Out.
Alan (bitter in Michigan)Hussein Cameron @ 10:
Just goes to show you, right wing men are too emotional to have a rational debate.
96 Gretchen Says
I’m on the Twilight Zone marathon, falafel and a great Bavarian Rodelseer
____________________________________________________________________
No hummus? How gauche.
I remember the last time they tried to revive the Twilight Zone they got the congenial Forrest Tucker to host, a big mistake in my opinion.
Rod Serling was like the ad executive from Hell.
I've seen commercials where they're apparently reviving the Zone again, but I don't know who the host is.
I always thought it should be Tim Curry. He has a way of making even the most bland sentence seem vaguely threatening. And he now has the girth of an Alfred Hitchcock.
If he wants wear panties, stocking and corsets anymore they have to come from Just My Size.
Joe Scarborough is a putz. Pure. Simple. Putz.
Scarborough has all the journalistic lack of talent of Tucker Carlson without the rich parents.
Joe is very boring,dull and not likeable.
If it was not for Mika, Pat Buchanan and others who help him in his morning show ,and make his show stay on the air, his show will be off the in no time, without them.
Joe is not like Olbermann who is smart, likeable, informative and solo.
Joe seems to be uncomfortable around Rachel Maddow,may be because she makes him look like an ignorant.
Randy @ 112:
Like an ignorant ASS HOLE and don't give Mika too much credit she is an idiot.
If they need a Republican Host in the Morning why not Michael Smerconish he actually hosted Hardball twice this week and did an impressive job. Maybe this is something we should put in MSNBC's ear.
Fire Joe the idiot so he can go and work at Fox and then we can pleasantly watch Keith tear him apart ever night, because right now you know he is holding back.
Does Joe wear a toupee ?...one day he was on and someone said something how his hair "never changes" and he turned beat red. After that i noticed he has shorter hair at the beginning of the week then the next week long hair...
I think the dude wears a piece.
Scarburough is such a punk!! Rachael kicked his ass. Mornin' Joe is just a pink slip waiting to happen. I'd bishslap that little homunculus troglodyte!! Just like his daddy Boo$h!!! Typical Repugnicant!!! Afraid of smart women that make him cower, so he resorts to playground taunts... neener neener or some kind of childish shit!!!!!!
Hey Scarborough..... your time is up junior!!!
I meant to say... hey Scarborough, your time is up BOY!!!!
I like Rachel but I think she should have fought back harder, that's how you deal with these assclowns.
She should given several quotes by Obama himself, not his campaign manager, regarding his Iraq policy. And I agree with her, he has been, for the last year, far less resolute about troop withdrawal than Kusinich or Edwards. It's a complicated situation that the assclown republicans got us in, and only idiots like bush never change their positions when the situation changes.
But you can't reason with assclowns. Try to tell them the world is not made of absolutes, and effective leaders must occasionally change with the situation.
They think the "surge" was a change, they just can't admit they were wrong.
MikeD @ 98:
This is exactly the same argument we heard in '92. 16 years later, the country is more RW than ever, and Bill Clinton and the DemocRATS played a huge role in enabling these fascists. Don't make the same mistake again. Vote for McCain and wait for a real Demcrat to come along.
Thanks for the clip Jeany. Those are the Bush locksteppers from whom Scarborough has oozed forth and continues to do their bidding. He's an embarrassment as a host as he has no objectivity whatsoever. And to attempt to humiliate his guests with insults is the lowest form of discourse...helluva bar you've set there Joey, MSNBC should be proud
As for the lack of balance on MSNBC...well, lets see, who owns the station? Hmmm, wellll, ummmmm, errrrrr(to the tune of jeopardys final answer)................................................................
That damn liberal media
Also, I just have to say, that Blankley clown says "Obama has to face the fact that the situation in Iraq is getting better..."
That's not the point, assclown! The point is the ones who are funding this debacle, the American taxpayers, want out! And the majority think it was a mistake to go in in the first place.
The democratic leadership and Obama better not lose sight of this fact in the coming year, or else there are going to be new parties formed and it ain't gonna be pretty for anyone in DC!
You idiots think Orbama is going to win. The media is going to make mince meat out of the dude. It will be a pleasure to watch McCain win all 50 states in a landslide because you idiots thought Orbama was the man. Stupid Democrat party. Guess you should stop smoking the pot and pay attention to real America.
Mike @ 118:
49 Million Americans can't wait for a "real Democrat" to give them Healthcare. 140,000 US Soldiers can't wait for a "real Democrat" to get them out of Iraq. 5 Million Families who've lost their homes because of predatory lenders can't wait for a "real Democrat" to help them get back on their feet. 440,000 Americans who have lost their jobs this year alone can't wait for a "real Democrat" to fix the economy. 6.4 Billion people on Earth can't wait for a "real Democrat" to do something about climate change.
And all that's just a start - gas prices, education, a foreign policy that does nothing but create more terrorists, and so much more will only get worse with McCain. Barack Obama isn't perfect, but if McCain wins we might not have a country left to elect a "real Democrat" to lead.
Take your "real Democrat" purity and shove it up your ass.
groucho @ 104:
Blankley, who, like all conservative blowhards straddles reality very unsteadily, at least can speak coherently and without screaming, I'll give him that much. For all the others, it always about volume and about bombast, like Scar, that putz realizes he is being taken to the woodshed and he starts getting loud, and talking nice and slow to make his dumb assed point, then he will end his bloviating with a dig at his tormentor, to get Maddow off her pointing out the obvious, lest his own head gets
shoved so far up his own ass it would take help from his fellow bloviators, all pulling at once, to remove it
Stupid Vote @ 121:
Your Email pseudonym "stupid" certainly says a lot about you.
Honestly, I don't think Obama will govern as centrist as some think his campaign is becoming.
Center-left is more likely.
The majority of Americans are center-left, but to run a platform that way for the rest of the election will get him branded a liberal. Sadly, the media has too many convinced that any person who stands for democratic values, and not corporate fascism, is a pinko.
You simply have to appear more right-wing than you really are. It's like a golf swing. You hit the ball straight, but somehow the media slices your shot so it appears you hit to the left and you miss the hole. Hit to the right, and you'll nail it.
Unfortunately, such games must be played to win.
Stupid Vote @ 121:
Tell me my "stupid" fascist friend: What is real America?
All 50 states huh? Do you honestly think that Al Gore or John Kerry who got CA, OR, NY, MA, etc. had a better chance than Obama does?
If so, you really are stupid.
Wow- Joe S is certainly a twat.
Him and Tucker will be sleeping in Mom's basement soon enuff.
Dead intern!
joe is a football dad.
i can't stand football dads.
Although Joe could have done a better job of making his point on Obama shifting to the middle with the FISA bill instead focus on the Iraq national security when Obama platform is on National security.
Here is my question that is forthcoming on the issue of a traditional procedure of shifting to the middle once the candidate sealed the nomination of their party. Did our Democratic party end up losing the vote base on Democratic supporter dumping their candidate for going to the middle or did the candidate themselves lose the vote for flip flopping on thier platform? I ask this because Kerry and Gore did the same thing after they were nominated for their party. This FISA bill really bother me, and I know it did many other people as well. The polls are showing a close tie between McCain and Obama, although I question the validity of MSM polls. Both time the polls were use to show how close they are and yet Bush popularity mysteriously disappear immediately after the election was finish. I pretty much thought that Bush has been consistently himself.
Do Democratic majority need to rally behind Obama and allow him to shift to the middle so he can secure a win at the national?
Do Obama need to do what he says he would do before he was the secure Democratic nominee position and know that the nation are so fed up with the conservative ideology, that his best chance of winning is to be different from the center to right?
Obama has a uphill battle, but he was top of his class unlike McCain which fall near the bottom of class as far as education went, just like Bush, and that Obama major when he received his degree was constitutional law, which is the very thing or issue of the FISA bill.
Does Obama think that giving up FISA bill is small potato for the price of pandering that he has enough awareness of going after Bush with all the violation of the constitution that once he win, he will undo everything and prosecute the violator of the laws.
That is my issue with Obama, is that he is very aware of constitutional laws but still willing to vote for FISA, to be able to pander to the middle.
George Bush first election was a man that people trust and yet knew he was an idiot, and now we have Obama a man who is not an idiot, but someone we cant trust.
How awesome would it be to see Olbermann make Scarborough "Worst Person in the World" on Monday? I would expect no less from Keith than to stand up for one of the few other vertebrates in cable news. Besides what's MSNBC going to do? KO carries that channel, but out side of political junkies like us, does anyone even know or care who Joe-blows is?
Commentator @ 122:
You act as if Obama and the Democrats will actually do something on the issues you list.
I can assure you they won't.
Just as *Mr. Environment* Gore did nothing on climate change when he was VP, and just like the Democrats who control Congress now have done nothing on climate change, healthcare, housing, gas prices, civil liberties, corporate corruption, and the Iraq War, Barack Obama and a Democratic Congress will likewise do nothing about the major issues facing this country - absolutely nothing.
To believe otherwise is to ignore the last 16 years of Democratic Party politics, as well as Barack Obama's tacit support for the neo-con agenda.
Clearly there is no question of *purity* here, as it is evident that most Democratic politicans and pundits have become nothing more than shills for the GOP.
Democratic party control congress? are you kidding? it takes 2/3 of a vote to control congress, and only 51% to be a majority. Please don't confuse them!
Democratic party have the majority but not the control.
Just as Clinton/Gore had the executive office but not the congress to back him.
Obama has been talking and voting centrist for a long time. I know that because he's my senator, and I've been paying attention. I've also been very disappointed in him.
But Nicole, you sound as though the fact that he fooled enough people to get close enough to the nomination to have it given to him by the DNC is a good thing.
All hail to Rachel Maddow for pointing it out--NOW. When it's too late.
It's just overwhelming how far people will go to excuse the theft of this nomination.
Carolyn Kay
MakeThemAccountable.com
paranoia @ 134:
Actually, it takes 60% (or more) for Democrats to pass a bill and only 51% for the Republicans, since the GOP filibusters every Democratic bill while Democrats refuse to filibuster any Republican bill. This discrepancy in the definition of *majority* exists only because a lot of Democrats are siding with the GOP. In fact, it is blatantly obvious the Democratic Party has been heavily infiltrated by the GOP - the Democratic leader in the Senate wouldn't even vote for the *climate change* bill, for pete's sake - and this situation is never going to change as long as we continue to elect GOP shills like the Clintons, Gore, Kerry, Pelosi, Reid, and Obama.
Face it, the only hope we have for the future is to elect Republicans until the Republicrats that control the Democratic Party are swept away and some other left-liberal-moderate coalition rises in their place. Electing *centrists* (a term which is clearly a misnomer) like Obama is the worst thing we could do, since as we have seen over the last 16 years, it only will lead to the further empowerment of the conservative movement.
mudshark @ 31:
So it's quite similar to the Vince Foster type murder?
Rachel is right.
Obama isn't shifting positions.
He is what is laughingly called a centrist.
His reputation as someone who will end the war is not only a fairy-tale, it is pure horseshit.
He isn't going to do anything. (He'll "listen to the commanders on the ground"...where have I heard that crap before?)
Change you can forget about.
Bush 3 is on the way wearing an Obama mask.
I have noticed that Scarborough has made it a personal goal to smack down Rachel Maddow as much as posible. Anytime she makes a statement, he ridicules her, takes a vote, does anything to embarrass her and minimize her statement. Yes, he's jealous of her intellect and wit. But his need to attempt to reduce her to rubble is so strong! Scarborough has a problem with women in general and strong women in particular.
The right wing nut cakes would have you believe that Obama is the most Liberal member of the US Senate, Thats because they have used there ownership of the media to try and turn Liberal into a dirty word. The truth is that he has always been center left, It would not make any difference if the nomination had been Hilary, Dodd, Biden or Richardson whom ever the nominee was they would say he/she is the most liberal Democrat. It is becoming increasingly Obvious that if a republican is moving his mouth he/She is lying. Hannity, Limbag, Oliely, Savage, Rove, Scaborough, Makin, Coultergiest, and the rest of the right wing Pundits its like a big lying contest who can out lie out misinform who can spin the successes of the most fucked up 7 1/2 years of American history. This is why Republicans will always try to slime there opponents because they could not win a election for dog catcher if they ran on there record.
obama has betrayed us
im staying at home
It's always good to know that Maddow is unwilling to be the liberal sacrifice on Scarborough's altar. The meme Scarborough was trying to infect the body politic with on this program was: democratic candidates are more "responsible" if they move right. If they are stupid enough to actually do that, they are then attacked for vacillating.
Typically White and Bitter Agent Hussein Provocateur @ 132:
That would be the best! Or how about a Special Comment? LOL!
Woody Tokin Librul @3:05
Wow that was fast, Woody took all of first 5 minutes to bring up the "Dead Girl" in Joes office!
That record will be hard to beat!
I don't feel bad for Rachel, she can most certainly handle herself against a dozen of these neo-nutz. She is the cannon in the knife fight. Also for the record, those of us who have always listened to Rachel's show know that she has consistently tried to tamp down the over the top idealism surrounding Obama's perceived positions. So no need to play gotcha with her quotes.
The offensive stuff I found during this show was Joe's attempt to turn Obama's position on a single word, 'yes'. A word not in the video they played but which, of course, was obviously in the edit. I guess the show was running long, they didn't have room from a 'yes'. Matter of fact, I'm getting a cramp typing yes -- ow!
That is shameless.
fiver @ 3:
EXACTLY.
Fred @ 144:
SO!
obama betrayed us @ 141:
Hope it's not in FORECLOSURE........considering how many are. Andrea Mitchell Greenspan should do a story on that.
Carolyn Kay @ 135:
IF YOU CARE SOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH, WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN FOR THE ALMOST EIGHT YEARS OF boosh that have made this a country of total chaos? MAKE THEM ACCOUNTABLE, INDEED............for the mess that is the U.S.
I noticed this the other night too. There was Rachel, surrounded by conservatives and still running rings around them. Joe just acted like the little snot that he is.
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