Languages
I always wanted to be fluent in another language. I studied Spanish in school, passed my HS Regents exam back in the day, but never got it down. I never learned Italian because of the racism that my grandparents faced when they came to the US in 1915. Studying a new language in school actually helps a person "think" better as far as I'm concerned. Maybe that's why right wingers hate Obama's idea so much.
Predictably, right-wingers flew into a rage at Obama's un-American call for better language skills. For example, John McCormack at the Weakly Standard labeled language education as snobbery and elitism. John Derbyshire called Obama's suggestion "idiotic" because "not many human beings can learn another language", as his own failures prove. He combines that with characteristic condescension:
In fact, below some cutoff point, which I'd guess at around minus one standard deviation in IQ (that would encompass sixteen percent of the population), education beyond the three R's is a waste of time, and foreign-language instruction a total waste of time.
What, my good pal John Derbyshire had a tough time learning another language? Well, that's not surprising. And since most Europeans speak many languages, are they just smarter? I don't think so. It's because all the countries do so much business together and are so close in proximity that it makes sense all around.
I want to learn Latin so I can talk to people in Latin America.
- Dan Q.
But ... Dey tuk er jerbs!
Yes, we're closer to people of other tongues, we meet people of other nationalities often.
I agree that knowing more than one language helps your mind be more flexible, sort of like multi-threading with CPUs:P
I suppose the culture of xenophobia and nationalism stemming from the cold war doesn't help you Americans, either.
That's utterly moronic. In India, there are dozens of languages, and most people with any level of education are at least bilingual, same in most sub-Saharan African countries. Most of my family is bilingual in Spanish and English, and freaks like me who don't speak Spanish (I speak Hebrew and rudimentary German) are the exception. If you start kids in pre-school and elementary school, you'd have a bilingual nation in no time.
Gitai @ 4:
Easily. I was actually taught 2 foreign languages and Latin in Croatia. Gotta love the right for making you stay stupid.
the reich depends on ignorance, stupidity and force.
My Pop, a die-hard Republican btw, REQUIRED me to learn a 2nd language in high school because that it would make me more marketable in the workplace.
Any Republican with an eye on the marketplace and worth his salt would do the same for their kids. To say something derogatory about learning a 2nd language is short-sighted and foolish.
Nikola @ 3:
we were arrogant even before the cold war.
ever hear of 'manifest destiny'?
Republicans, Conservatives, Morons. They're all the same.
Old joke I heard while living in Europe:
What do you call someone who speaks two languages? - Bilingual
... someone who speaks three languages? - Trilingual
... someone who speaks four languages? - [after some thought] Quadralingual
... someone who speaks one language? American
numfar @ 7:
It's easier to stay leader of the pack if the pack is stupid, though. That's how the top conservatives must think.
BaScOmBe hearts Lara Logan @ 8:
Heh, yes. But I like to think in more modern terms, it's more frightening when you realize something like that was happening only a few decades ago:P
What is the plural form of "y'all"?
Americans struggle with English.
"John Derbyshire called Obama’s suggestion “idiotic” because “not many human beings can learn another language”, as his own failures prove."
This guy is utterly stupid!!! Most of the world speaks more than one language in their home countries. Many countries have more than one dialect and also speak a 'foreign' language. I used to have passing Japanese, German, Italian, and Latin language skills. But, now only a few words here and there, maybe a few phrases and sometimes I feel ashamed that I let the skills go away. I started learning Japanese at age 3, when we lived in Japan (dad was in the military), Italian and German at the age of 6, when we lived in southern Italy. I took two years of Latin in high school and it helped with my English. At least I was exposed to other languages and cultures and feel the richer for it and feel sorry for those that can't see beyond the end of their noses.
ALL Y'ALL!!!!
John Derbyshire é idiota...
Having everyone speak a second language would help promoted American business interests abroad.
Obama is just trying to support Capitalism.
Why do Republicans hate Capitalism so much?
What do you expect from a country that ran a news story asking "Is English too hard?"
John @ 18:
The entire country ran the story?
Bud "Terrorist Fist Jab" Hussein @ 13:
It is still y'all. It's a combination of 'you all' or 'all of you', depends upon location where it's being spoken, sometimes. However, depending upon what part of the US you are in, the spelling is either ya'll or y'all. You'll get arguments for either way.
John @ 18:
Oh, right, I think I spotted that one. I remember being genuinely amazed. It's generally accepted here (in Europe) that English is among the simpler languages to learn.
christine @ 20:
I thought he was making a joke:P
i thought i remember the defense department complaining
about not having translators.......
i thought this was the age of geopolitics/economy seems
to me you going to need people who are able to speak more than one language...
but let's be real no matter what obama says something is wrong with it.....they don't want obama getting any public approval.........it's assinine
I do not understand why John is devoting time and space to this kind of ridiculous attacks against Obama. Those disqualify themselves, and do not deserve much attention from anybody.
abarts @ 14:
Not since hooked on phonics. : )
ummm, wait a minute. Better think that one over.
again.
Nikola @ 22:
I wasn't sure, but since the topic was languages, I thought to try to enlighten.
Stop waiting until High School to start a 2nd language.
Once kids are comfortable in their 1st language their brains are ready for a 2nd.
And once a 2nd language is firmly planted in their brains, 3rd and 4th languages are much more easily learned than the 2nd.
But every year that passes without learning that 2nd language makes it increasingly difficult to do so.
And there really is no better way to learn the fundamental lesson that there are MANY valid ways of being human.
Nikola @ 21:
That's odd I've heard from Japanese students that it's not that easy to learn.
"And since most Europeans speak many languages, are they just smarter? "
On the whole I find they have (and at all) much better critical thinkings skills and vastly better worldly knowledge. Sure I'm from there so I'm bias, though I've lived all over both continents.
abarts @ 14:
Indeed.
Obama is a visionary. Mclame still thinks Czechoslovakia is a country.
Most of the G-8 Leaders are multilingual. Bush certainly stands out in that crowd. He is hoping someday to master English.
While we're on the topic of meaningful education reform:
New national chief of teachers union calls for full-service schools
Not just "minority" children could benefit, as well as entire communities.
The astonishing disdain for education by these ignorant self centered morons leaves me flaberghasted that they have so much power. How did this happen?
CAlI @ 28:
Perhaps it depends on the first language. I think of Japanese as rigid, which might be a problem when faced with the flexibility of English. Personally, I find English the easiest of any language I've encountered, including Croatian (Serbian, Bosnian), any Slavic language probably, Italian, French and of course Latin:P
I never realized how screwed the people of this country are, and how completely exploited we are until I worked in Europe for awhile. I can see why some right-wingers would like to prevent this sort of thing.
Most of them are just racists and rabid nationalists who have a kneejerk reaction against anything not painted red, white, and blue-- but I've no doubt the actual thinkers in that group have more practical, more aristocratic reasons for being against language education.
We had all better learn to speak some dialect of Chinese.
numfar @ 7:
Actually, the republicans aren't opposed to having THEIR elite learn a second language (Dubya Bush learned how to speak French. I kid you not)... they just don't want anyone they considered beneath them to learn second languages.
They also don't want them to learn about the sciences, civics, history, global issues, and so forth.
Keeping other people ignorant is their strength.
Comedian Eddie Izzard made a great observation concerning Americans and the acquisition of a second language:
"Two languages in one head? No one can live at that speed!"
Derbyshire is well equipped to qualify for the idiot level. Here in Thailand most people speak two languages. All through Europe people speak both there local language and English and if they live near another border they probably speak three languages.
I'm not a particularly smart person and I speak Italian (my native language), English, and some French and Spanish. Thai has proven to be more of a challenge to me.
I've heard plenty of idiotic remarks from the GOP, but this really takes the cake. They will say anything to make their base (the moron factor in the USA of 27%) make them think they are smarter than they are.
Teacher in Jersey @ 38:
LOL, one of my favorite comedians.
Nikola @ 34:
I'd say all European languages share a number of traits.
However, even right wingers can be quickly won over with this issue. don't waste the opportunity.
That is total BS. As someone who's in school, I can't tell you the number of people around me who wish that we had the language system of Europe. I'm already brushing up on my Arabic and may even go back to my spanish. These right-wing douchebags have no idea how many opportunities a new language can open up.
Numinous @ 37:
Regarding Republicans, I agree. Pop, though, will have nothing of that. I've brought that up to him time and time again when it appears to be an issue and he considers it as I do...short-sighted and foolish.
Hey John, It's never too late! I also am learning Italian now (my grandparents, too, wouldn't teach it to me when I was young. They said it was an "inferior" language, which lots of Italian immigrants said). But now, I am applying for Italian citizenship jure sanguinis (check it out; it's rad), and I'm learning Italian again (took two years in grad school). I have a GREAT tutor, and it is working...so it's never too late!
CAlI @ 41:
They're bound to, though some a lot more than others, and some seemingly nothing. There are a few families of indo-european languages that have a lot in common. Like Roman languages; Latin, Italian, French and Spanish have quite a lot in common.
Bud "Terrorist Fist Jab" Hussein @ 13:
All y'all.
Mickxotic @ 47:
LoL
Nader @ 43:
I suppose that is the point: The right wing would prefer that everyone has little access to opportunities that would enhance their knowledge, or their lives.
Ditto what #27 said.
Obama wasn't talking about new school courses to learn a second language - that is typically already a requirement in high school, since long before Obama. Obama was talking about moving that language instruction back to the earlier grades, when kids' neurons are more adept at learning a new language. That is self-evidently logical. A French toddler learns more French in 2 years than an American teeneager learns in 4.
How the obvious stuff escapes some people, I just don't understand.
OK, I'm European and speak 4 languages (5 on a good day or when I'm not pregnant). Does that make me an elitist?
No, it makes me someone who's interested in communicating with other people on their linguistic turf--and show them the respect they deserve for their cultural heritage.
Oh, and in Florida, they taught me that the plural of y'all is "all y'alls". Gotta add the plural -s, you know.
CAlI @ 41:
Not all, there are a few specific origins and groups.
Jerry @ 52:
The Romantic Languages are spread far and wide.
Rosario @ 24:
i think spanish speaking people are the fastest growing demographic in the u.s. and happen to be an important
voting demographic.....recognizing the importance of being able to speak spanish is and will become even more important........it's a valid topic although you may be correct there are over topics of importance
It's my understanding y'all is singular, all y'all is plural, and all y'all's is plural possessive (if I remember the joke right)...
The whole idea of the GOP leadership is to keep the masses stupid, that way they are easier to control and fool. Also part of their reasoning for courting the extreme religious right.
They would like to dumb down America, to De-Evolve the public.
If English was good enough for God to write the Bible in, than English is good enough for me.
♫..Bangkok Bob..♫ @ 39:
Apparently you've never heard: "I've never lived anywhere else but I can tell you the USA is the BEST country in the world."
No sé como funcionan las cosas in otros países, pero les aseguro que en el mío la gente tiene tendencia a pensar muchas cosas falsas.
same line; where's the music ed? Proven to make kids smarter but, noooooo, why gotta have "No little robot left behind". I know quite a few teachers varying from very conservative to very liberal and I can get any of them heated up by bringing up No child left behind.
Here's a good lead in line if you are talking to a conservative teacher. "Teachers are professionals, why shouldn't we trust them to do their jobs?"
The myth is that the rise of the conservative movement has been a reaction to the decline in American values, culture, educational standards, morality, etc. The reality is that the decline of our country has been a direct result of the growing influence of the conservatives. They care about money and themselves: beyond that they are immoral people without values. They care - in abstraction - about 'the unborn' , but all such concern disappears at the moment of birth. They don't want to pay the property taxes to fund our schools because educated, cultured young people will never be stupid enough to elect conservatives.
The ideal conservative society consists of three groups: the very, very wealthy tiny number of elitists for whom the society actually exists; the so-called conservative 'intellectuals', hard working compulsive brown-nosers, stupid enough to be impressed by Ayn Rand, who govern for their elite masters; and lastly the ignorant unwashed masses who can always be counted on to vote against their own interests and for the interests of the elite - who in turn care nothing for them and with whom they have nothing in common.
Jay Severin Has A Small Pen1s @ 57:
ROTFLMFAO.
God I love that joke.
Education is a waste of time[Or any of us would have a chance to be President.], but learning for its own sake is an enriching experience.
MountainMan23 @ 58:
I have heard that before a few times a few years back when I lived in the South East US. People who have never left Georgia swearing that the USA was the best place in the world.
Oy vey, I'm an elitist, then! Sometimes I'm told by English-only speakers that they envy the fact that I speak two languages; I wish to continue improve my proficiency in both those languages; and I kick myself because I wasn't able to continue my education in my third language and don't remember much of it. In addition to that, if I can afford to put my future children through private preschool one of these days, I will see to it the school is bilingual in its operation!
"snobbery and elitism"???
OK I know mccain is somewhat senile or semi-retarded or something but I would think even a complete idiot would recognize that being against learning other languages is what's truely snobbery and elitism. But what can you expect from people whose only language IS made up of words taken from other languages.
Pizza ( Italian )
Budweiser ( Czech )
Texas ( Spanish )
Conservative ( French )
It just goes on and on. There is little that could really be considered English in origin in the English langauge. So what they hell is it they fear? The fact that they didn't do very well at learning English as a first language to begin with perhaps?
I learned Spanish when I was 39 and speak it fluently today at 50. Certainly helped my employment prospects. So fuck those stupid right-wing nutjobs who say it can't be done. They're doomed to remain idiots and simply want to drag us down to their ignorant levels.
Most of the GOP probably have gardeners who speak two or three languages.
I'd say that not only was just John Derbyshire's entire "education" an apparent waste of time and resources, but his very existence represents an unconscionable waste of space and oxygen.
This is crazy. The right wing consistently gripes that people who come to this country as immigrants are supposed to speak English. They want to pass English only laws. Then It strikes me as weird that they themselves find it too difficult to learn another language. This stinks of the ultimate hypocrisy. I just want to say those "learn another language in 30 days" courses don't work. Language is a complex and wonderful thing to help others understand you. It may be difficult for an older adult to fully grasp another language but it can be done. I just think that now they should lay off and stop complaining that Immigrants are supposed to learn English overnight. Most cultures can speak it fluently by the second generation, and by the third generation, they have virtually forgotten how to speak in their own native tongue.
When you get right down to it, english is a horrific, frankenstienian hodge-podge of a language anyway so maybe the right-wingers are simply waiting for it to absorb all other languages into itself (a la street speak in Bladerunner), making learning anything other than english redundant?
That or they're just lazy fucks living in a pipe-dream world where America is god's personal country and to do anything out of step with their colouring-book version of reality is un-american and treasonous...
Learned Spanish and English as a kid in South Texas, took Latin in high school. Learned to speak a little sign when I worked with people with disabilities. Inner city high school I teach at is the most culturally diverse school in New Mexico. Blacks, Asian, White, Native American and Hispanic. Kids speak Navaho, different Pueblo languages, Vietnamese, Thai, Cambodian, Mandarin, Arabic, and at least 3 different dialects in Spanish. Knowing more than 1 language can't hurt. Obama is right, immigrants will learn English, if for no other reason than to survive. Americans need to learn other languages so that we can compete in the global market. Our dearth of Arabic speakers is 1 reason we have failed to win the people of Iraq to our side. Our god awful ethnic superiority and ethnocentrism just shows how ignorant we really are.
It's not just languages that the right wingers are against. They hate higher education in general. That's why you hear them railing against college as being elitist and liberal (as if liberal is a bad thing). They are against higher math, science, literature, art, history, etc. The right wingers cultivate a culture that encourages what I have come to call aggressive ignorance. It isn't enough for them to stay ignorant themselves which is what you see with the Jehovah's Witnesses and their shunning of college. They go a step beyond willful ignorance and try to enforce it on the genral population. Only an ignorant person would ever make an argument for ignorance.
if the english language has over 600,000 words and the french language has only 100,000 words,why is french so difficult for americans?
It would be a good idea for English only language chavinists to learn another language. It might actually help them learn to speak English.
I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, and continue living here (visiting the states on and off) and grew up speaking Spanish, starting English at kinder (private school), and just have to wonder at how stupid Americans are becoming. Instead of electing a president with whom you can have an engaging conversation, y'all just want someone "you can drink a beer with".
Just try entering law or med school with just one language - speaking two or more languages automatically moves you up the rankings. I'm graduating from med school soon, and the big training centers (New York, Texas, D.C.) will rank you higher if you speak more than 2 languages. It's just a must.
Learn Spanish, and you can learn speak with almost half the world - of course, learn English and speak with the majority. However, it is utterly stupid to believe that learning another language will somehow make someone less patriotic. People who believe this need to told in public that they are bona-fide idiots. Bush's influence on the U.S. is unmistakable. By the way, Spanish is not that difficult, and while English is, German and Mandarin (not Chinese, though this small detail will fly over the head of the right wingers) is downright hard. I have friends that speak fluent Mandarin and I die of envy just thinking about it.
An educated public is an anathema to the Conservative movement. It's the Achilles Heal of the wealthy elite, they fear nothing more than the educated masses freeing themselves from the bondage of ignorance, demanding their rights and rejecting the poverty of a corrupt system that keeps us enthralled.
It will however, make them less Republican.
CAlI @ 53:
I don't expect many among the Basque community, for example, to appreciate such a comment. Hell, them there's fightin' words!
Most all Italian children learn Italian at a very early age.
Wonder how they do it?
After all, they're only kids!
Terrible @ 66:
Can we give that last one back to the French? It's done so much damage to our nation in the hands of English speaking Americans.
xoites defends Constitution @ 33:
the smart people got complacent and let computers do their voting for them.
They may hate Obama's idea but they will love John McCan't.
AP Reports.
July 15 2008.
John McCain proposes to spend millions of dollars on our education system to teach our kids Arabic.
John McCain stated it is time our kids learn Arabic. They will need to know the language and it will definitely help them with there future tours in the Middle East if I'm elected.
Alice X (Chomsky Nader) status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 59:
Quel fromage!
tr @ 74:
It isn't.
Most just don't care to learn it.
Apparently Mr. Derbyshire has his illegal immigrant servants, who are bilingual, do his tech support phone calls for him, where bilingual people in India solve his tech problems.
Dumb foreigners.
criscokid @ 79:
Yeah well I've ended up in fist fights with half the Basque's I've met.
I've ended up getting lucky with most of the rest.
Needless to say I'm conflicted as to what I think of them.
Republicans won't be satisfied until they turn this country into the dystopia portrayed by Mike Judge in Idiocracy. Just imagine going to the doctor and having him tell you that according to your chart, your s**t is f***ed up and you're 'tarded.
Snowball @ 81:
So the damn Froggies are to blame for the GOP? Insidious Paris-talking foreigners.
euphgeek @ 88:
why come you don't have tattoo?
Lyon @ 71:
Got it in one, Lyon. Good show.
It also goes to the root of their insecurities. Rather like the furor that ensued a couple years back when a college--can't remember which--merely recommended that its incoming freshmen read a number of important literary works, including the Koran. Believe me, I loathe the term, but what kind of pussy are you if you can't handle a little exposure to a culture outside your own? These people would be laughable if they weren't running the country.
I reserve my right to be a stupid american. As long as we are stupid we can be manipulated into things like...wars. If we can talk and understand other people, we can enjoy other cultures, unite. Uh, oh
euphgeek @ 88:
Dizzyingly retarded film- and wonderfully prescient!
Snowball @ 81, the damage was all because some wingnuts didn't learn their words quite right and thought it meant something other then it did when the French gave it to us to use. But yeah after all the trouble it's caused we ought to give it back or better yet just destroy it.
Wait. I don't know if calling it The Weakly Standard was meant to be a joke. But it should be.
Oh my Goodness! if the right wing thinks that speaking or learning another language is "snobbery and elitism", well I guess all foreign-speaking immigrants who want to speak English must be elitist and snobbish liberals!
I was a Peace Corps volunteer in West Africa. I struggled with learning the local language (a local african dialect) but managed to get to the point where I could finally think in the predominant language of my region. What always astounded me was all the people in my village that spoke two, three, even four languages. The could also pick up new vocabulary in languages they didn't speak (English, for example) amazingly fast. I think learning a second (plus) language allows you to keep your brain more flexible at an older age. I think this stems not from the fact that you know multiple words for the same object but rather that each language has a different view of the world as a whole, a different way of describing and naming things that makes you learn a lot more than just the vocab to be able to speak the language. That is where I think the greatest benefit comes from learning a second language - it opens your mind to different interpretations of the same thing.
White so called Americans (read Repubs) are just plain fucked-up! Yeah its a generalization but with a large element of truth! I've been saying it for years, they are the cancer of the earth. ¡Cabrones!
Alacran @ 96:
Good Lord I wonder what they think of the Pope?
Doesn't he speak a dozen languages?
it's amazing that the f#cking reichwingneocons are so
afraid that the world will find out how absolutely stupid
they are with their 29% IQs, that they say "not many
human beings can learn another language". give me a
break. the hispanic population coming into our country
that do not speak english when they arrive, will and do
learn english in just a matter of a few months.
it's the hypocrites on the reichwing side that have enough
trouble just learning english after years of failed attempts.
the reichwingneocons can't even find the United States on
a world globe. and most gop don't know where to locate
their state on a U S map.
Ron? Are you still out there? I've been thinking about you.
Since you are on a budget, try visiting your local library. They sometimes have language tapes/cd's available. Give it a shot, who knows? You might be good at it.
So are they saying that the 'bad' illegal immigrants that come over the border, who speak both Spanish and English, are among that elite group of intellectuals that can speak many languages? Kind of goes against their argument about them being a drain on our national intelligence levels.
One would almost think that the entire right wing punditry is composed of merde-for-brains nimcontards.
Studying new languages does help you "think" better, at whatever age. We were required in our suburban high school in the 70s to start taking a foreign language at around age 12, and I benefited enormously from that, was even able to learn another language in the same language family with ease when I was well into middle age. So I've been dismayed to learn that young relatives of mine don't even have time to take on language learning at that age because of all the high-stakes standardized testing they're always preparing for at school. I hope they eventually get the chance.
There's also been a reduction in the amount of Spanish language signage on public facilities here, which is crazy, since this is Texas and for centuries we've had towns that are almost entirely Spanish-speaking. But because of racist right-wing "English Only" campaigns, there's been a reduction from what it was 20 years ago. The right-wingers can't completely get rid of Spanish here, but they're trying.
(warning: international auxiliary language plug)
Once Obama becomes president and people start thinking about new ideas and new frontiers I'm hoping there will be a more receptive audience towards the promotion of other languages like Interlingua, a language created in 1951 from all the common natural elements present in major European languages (but without the artificiality of Esperanto). The result is a language that is quite easy to learn, and also exceptionally easy to read at first sight (though admittedly easier for those that know Spanish/Italian/etc.), almost like a modern version of an easy-to-read Latin.
Here's the first paragraph of this post translated into Interlingua by me as an example:
I always wanted to be fluent in another language. I studied Spanish in school, passed my HS Regents exam back in the day, but never got it down. I never learned Italian because of the racism that my grandparents faced when they came to the US in 1915. Studying a new language in school actually helps a person “think” better as far as I’m concerned. Maybe that’s why right wingers hate Obama’s idea so much.
=
Io sempre voleva esser fluente in un altere lingua. Io studiava espaniol in le schola, passava mi "HS Regents" examine ante multe tempore, ma nunquam completemente finiva illo. Io nunquam apprendeva italian a causa del racialismo que mi granparentes confrontava quando illes veniva a America in 1915. De facto, studiar un nove lingua adjunta un persona "pensar" plus bon, secundo me. Forsan illo es le ration pro quo le dextre odia le idea de Obama tan multe.
Seth @ 97:
Seth's is a keen observation, which- hope against hope- would enormously benefit those Muhrkins of a certain vacuously smug and culturally isolationist ilk (far too many, I fear) should they ever dare to venture a bit and embrace such a concept.
Doesn't Condi Rice speak three languages?
LibertyLover @ 101, I didn't see Rons comment you're referring to but there are a number of site on-line for langauge studies too. Do a google search for free language. I was going to learn some Chinese a few years ago but didn't get to it. Maybe this Obama 'scandal' ;-) will get me going on that!
Correct framing for Obama on this issue is: "Have you heard? Some people on the Republican side don't think American kids are as smart as kids in Europe. I will never let them say that about our kids without answering back. Our kids are every bit as capable of learning a second language as kids in Europe. Don't let them put our kids down like that. It's not right, it's not fair, and it is typical elitist talk... saying that European kids are so much smarter, so much more capable of learning language. This kind of elitist, proEuropean, antiAmerican rhetoric has gone too far on the Republican side."
Except shorter.
Latin is the best choice for language instruction.
Mmm...
"Not many human beings can learn another language."
Mmm...
He left out "stupid" between "many" and "human".
Pretty much the entire populations of Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Iceland, the Netherlands, Finland and several other European countries are multilingual (many of those comfortable in three or four languages, not just two).
Hundreds of millions of Chinese speak their own language plus Mandarin. And some add English to that.
Hundreds of millions of Indians speak two, three or more languages.
Scores of millions of Indonesians speak their local language plus Indonesian.
But right-wing Americans are clearly different. The mind-numbing depths of their stupidity leads to a degradation of the brain that precludes language learning.
I sadly am one of those people who only speak English. I have been trying to learn Japanese, and and have tried very hard to memorize the hiragana and katakana, but I have a long way to go before I understand Japanese.
What I find intriguing is that our disdain for languages other than English come from the speaking point of view. Learning to speak a language is one thing; learning to LISTEN in another language, that is very underrated. That always rings home to me every time I encounter a group of two or three people from a foreign land and somewhere in the conversation they break off into their language, and all of a sudden they have the advantage of confidentiality that I don't. They can pass in and out of my world and I can't do the same.
But it's still easy for us to live like this because presently we live in that part of the food chain that does the speaking (ie. the telling) rather than the listening (ie. the obeying). But can that always be guaranteed?
You may remember that Native Americans as communications officers confounded Japanese code breakers because they could communicate in a language the Japanese had no knowledge of. So consider this: an anglocentric attitude in America, a proudness to be ignorant of all but English will lead to disadvantages down the road, especially if we live beyond the times when command more and obey less.
A few disjointed observations - I learned French in my late 30's, while living in Paris. I speak it enthusiastically, if badly, having given up all hope of ever being fluent and settling for understanding, being understood, and able to hold my own at a dinner party. I'm learning German (again, had two years in high school) because I need it for research on my doctoral thesis. I've had a smattering of Latin, a bit of Spanish, and - in my more obscure and geeky teens - did actually learn to read and write in basic ancient Egyptian hieroglyphs, just for fun. (End result, being able to impress a couple little old ladies at the Tutankhamun exhibit in LA, who assumed I must have worked for the museum, and being the only one to laugh in the theatre when Stargate the movie came out when Daniel Jackson mutters the line 'Budge has a lot to answer for'.)
My late mother learned to read, write and speak Chinese in her fifties, as a hobby, after she made an exchange trip to China.
Our Kid speaks fluent Castillian Spanish, having studied at the University of Madrid for a couple years, and can spit like a native.
I've taught English as a second language to non-Anglophonic speakers, and anyone who tells you that English is easy to learn is full of shit. But when a student asks, 'WHY do you say it that way in English?' it does make you think. And one of my students, a second generation American, regrets deeply the ingrained accommodation of Spanish speakers in certain American school systems, because now she's struggling with a language she should know as well as I do.
I have no idea if speaking another language makes you smarter, or if it's any realistic indication you were already smarter than average to begin with. I don't know if it affects your political leanings, or if more liberals can speak more than one language than do conservatives. I don't really know if eating pickles will make you more likely to fall off a bicycle, but I'd venture to guess that the majority of Americans who have fallen off a bike have eaten a pickle at least once in their lives.
In other words, I don't think any of this is related - but I do know that speaking another language other than/in addition to English does open your eyes to other cultures and ideas while allowing you to understand your own English better. And... it's fun.
John McCormack and anyone else who talks down education are undeniable horse's asses.
you'd expect conservatives to at least understand that knowing a business adversaries language increases ones chance of gleaning information from said adversary. but no, they don't. the key and truth that solves this seeming conundrum is easy; they aren't really conservatives. they're right wing, neocon, fundy, whack jobs. but not conservatives. the conservatives i grew up with understood the value of a quality education. these yahoos simply don't.
they're sick, and small minded vermin who wish to simply limit peoples minds.
Americans who suffer from exceptionalism do not want the world to know how really stupid they are. Nothing like being outed to ruin your day.
Another anecdotal reminisce - I was once in Den Haag (The Hague for youse English speakers), in a video arcade trying to figure out how to play a certain game. A small boy, about ten or eleven, obviously frustrated with my ineptitude, started to give me advice, in Dutch.
I didn't even know enough Dutch to say, 'I don't speak Dutch, sorry', in Dutch. So I said it in English.
'Oh,' he said. 'Well, look - the red button makes it go faster, and if you push the wheel this way, you can make it turn left or right...'
All in perfect, unaccented English.
Afterward, I noticed in my hotel room that the tellie routinely showed American and British films, without subtitles. (In fact, there were a few French films without subtitles as well; it wasn't restricted to English).
English, like it or not, is still the global dominant language of business, just as Latin was in medieval Europe. It may be the last real 'export' of any value we Americans are going to be left with. And unless we resort to underhandedly depending on other people's linguistic skills - like a friend of mine did when he hired a cute young blonde woman as his P.A. who had grown up in Japan and spoke fluent Japanese, whose only job was to sit in on meetings, keep her mouth shut, listen and tell him what his Japanese counterparts were saying behind his back to his face - it would behoove all of us to learn a second or even third language ourselves, if we harbour any latent hope of regaining any competitive edge with the rest of the world in the long-run.
Che cazzo dice?: "I never learned Italian because of the racism that my grandparents faced when they came to the US in 1915." OK, I could see if you were a Sici (Sicilian) and made a statement like that. Maybe you just weren't motivated?
Terrible @ 108:
Really?
I'll check it out, I wouldn't mind brushing up on my French or to learn Spanish... one never knows when one will get so fed up and decide to leave the country. N'est pas?
CAlI @ 107:
Four, if you count lying.
LibertyLover @ 119:
Actually six. Lying is a multiplier...
Of course, that also assumes she knows how to speak "truth" in each of those languages.
Maybe it's just three.
Beyond the Islamic "Call to Prayer", how many languages does Sen. Obama speak fluently?
Exactly as many as Derbyshire...
I am AlGore's hairy manboobs @ 121:
Obama bisa bicara bahasa Indonesia.
You know, the language of the world's largest MUSLIM country!
Sheee-it! Incontinence pants, stet!!
Like many Canadian kids, I began to learn french from day one of my education, in kindergarten. Even though there aren't a lot of French people in Western Canada.
Which had its good and bad points as the school I went to taught sciences all the sciences except biology in french, with the result that I was lousy in physics, chemistry and math. I regretted this later on.
Now I can read french restaurant menus and wine labels like nobody's business. And talk to tourists from Quebec and Paris. And ask for directions when I'm travelling in Europe. Aside from that, my years of french classes haven't opened a lot of doors. Still glad I speak the language, though.
Weird that John Derbyshire should be so anti-foreign language. His late mentor/boss at National Review, William F. Buckley, spoke fluent Spanish, as well as French and (I think) some German.
DHSmd @ 120:
Niiiice...
Bud "Terrorist Fist Jab" Hussein @ 13:
That's easy: "all y'all"
Sheesh! I thought all y'all knew that one!
Nikola @ 21:
Well, that may be so with the folks you know, but when I was in Russian language school in the Navy, my native-speaker instructors had just the opposite view. They all agreed that English is one of the most difficult languages to master as a second language.
BTW, how would you pronounce the following word: ghoti
(spoiler space)
it's the phonetic spelling for "fish"
"gh" as in rough
"o" as in women
"ti" as in motion
Used by one of my Russian teachers to point out how phonetic spelling absolutely doesn't work with the English language.
From 1983 to 1986 I was in the U.S. Peace Corps in Nepal. With a literacy rate below 30 percent, the average person in my village could still speak 4 languages at a minimum. I met an old guy who was fluent in 8 languages, but was unable to write his own name. I dare anyone to call him an elitist!
I've been living mostly in Germany since leaving Nepal and the average German in the north speaks German, Plattdeutsch, English and usually a bit of Spanish, Italian, Danish or French, too.
In fact, the average person in the world speaks 3 to 4 languages every day.
Speaking multiple languages is the normal human condition and anyone who denies this denies his own humanity.
constituent @ 23:
No, no; they had lots of translators available...they just couldn't pass the moral/religious standards test required by the Bush administration.
Nikola @ 34:
I thought Russian was a very easy language to learn, due to the rigid rules of pronunciation, the much fewer examples of irregular verbs, standardization of noun declension and verb conjugation, etc. Mainly, after learning the grammar rules, if all boiled down to memorizing vocabulary.
Same way with Vietnamese, only more so. they don't even conjugate verbs or decline nouns.
Numinous @ 37:
Exactly! Why do you think it was illegal to teach the African slaves to read and write, back in the day? Knowledge is power!
CAlI @ 41:
Really? Then could you tell me about the similarities between, say, Icelandic or Norwegian and Italian and French?
Mickxotic @ 47:
Or "Y'all folks"
CAlI @ 53:
First of all, it's Romance languages, not Romantic - it derives from Roman (latin). Second, the romance languages are pretty much confined to Southern Europe. (the places the Romans conquered, interestingly enough).
English isn't even considered a romance language - more germanic in nature. Anglo-saxons were not even remotely related to Latin linguistically. And don't get me started on Gaelic and Welsh...
This sort of thinking just drives me crazy. I never studied Spanish until I was 40 years old. I now speak Spanish very well. It's been a great challenge and experience. It provides me with insight into other people, as our languages often have heavy cultural and perseptional aspects we aren't aware. So I am now 48 years old. I have accepted a job as a CEO of a friends company in Madrid. I just received my first work / live visa for Spain, a country that I have come to love. I hope I will improve myself as a person and as a citizen of the world. This is not some snobby activity. I grew up the kid of a Scottish immigrant in a pretty poor family that didn't provide for lots of opportunities money wise. My educational skills were average at best. I am not of an high IQ. I just wanted to learn. And now my very good friend there is learning English for the first time at age 36.
Now why can't derb do it?
Terrible @ 66:
You forgot: kindergarten - German. Which is one of the things we could start teaching them in kindergarten!
To have another language is to possess a second soul.
— Charlemagne
Charles the Great, King of the Franks, crowned Imperator Augustus by Pope Leo III, 12/25/800. Charlemagne united most of western Europe. He is the founder of the French and German monarchies. He apparently spoke a Germanic dialect. He also spoke Latin and a bit of Greek. Why did he hate America so much?
CAlI @ 99:
Yeah! And Bush thinks he's awesome!
This English ONLY idea is elitist. I always throw this back at them:
If this country wants to compete in the global market, then the people need to be fluent in at least two languages.
A few years back I was in Switzerland (back when the Euro and the dollar were of similar value). I walked in a very tiny shop and wanted to buy this t-shirt but they didn't have my size. The woman who waited on me spoke English. She called the warehouse to see if she could get my size and spoke to that person in German. When she finished with that call she waited on an Italian couple and spoke to them in Italian! What an eye opener that was.
redsaunas @ 122:
He probably speaks a bit of Hawaiian, too, Brudda!
Cookie @ 115:
The time has come, and the change will be hard.
Though americans (on the whole) are desperately ignorant so the ability to adapt or change is foreign within itself, to fight to hold onto the myopic ideals of selfish greed (ra ra ra we're #1 etc) will prevail for the masses, hence the social unrest and rioting that will happen.
bajaboy @ 134:
Glad to see someone on here has at least half an education ........... be that though state or their own fruition.
Having spent developmental time in a Gaelic school then moving off the continent before moving back to the mainland to learn the other 3 it's interesting to read & see how others think and talk about thing they have no personal experince off.
The easy bottom line here is that america isn't part of the real world, and doesn't want to be as it would have to face it's own ills and grow the fuck up ............ not going to happen any time soon.
It helps to have easy access to good movies, television and music in the language you want to learn. Not to mention native speakers willing to communicate with you.
There is nothing like immersing yourself in a language to pick it up pretty quick.
Did you check out the possibilities of learning languages online? You might want to try http://www.babbel.com which gives you an easy start as a beginner and connects you to native speakers as "Tandem" partners once you are more advanced.
By the the logic of the right, does this mean we should only require 16% of Immigrants to learn English?
My American home is in a university community (Champaign/Urbana, Illinois), and won of my favorite things their is reading the letters too the editor in the campus paper, wrighten by both undergrads and graduate students.
Maybe they should learn English before they tackle any of that foreign stuff.
My European home is in southern Spain, where nearly all the locals are multilingual, but gazillions of British expats (some of whom have lived there for decades) still can't speak a word of Spanish. It's not just Americans. There's something about the English language that makes the majority of its speakers arrogant assholes.
My all-time favorite email sig is a quote from John Stuart Mill: "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
Pick a language, Any language - Not That One!
Has anyone used the Rosetta Stone tapes? They make it sound like it makes language learning easier...but they are pretty pricey. I wouldn't mind spending the money if it actually works, but hate to waste money (I really can't afford) because I was taken in by a misleading commercial.
We have 3 official languages i nour country: french, dutch and german. I speak, read and write fluently French, Dutch, English and also some Spanish. I can read and understand German and studied Japanaese for some years but gave up as I didn't like the culture that much.
But your right-wing politicians are correct, why loose time learning another languages. I mean why would you need to understand French or Spanish to read and listen to news on news networks or papers when you can have all the info needed on Fox news and the rest of the MSM. They do tell the same thing in every paper right? I mean you guys did know before invading Iraq that there was 1) no connection to Al-qaeda, 2) Saddam had no WMD and 3) it was only to steal oil; like we did know in Europe before your invasion. Right?
My country is on the verge of implosion (Belgium), and I must say understanding both Dutch and French is crucial to understand what is going on: on one side the hypocrisy and latent racism of Flanders which asks for rights but denies minorities in Flanders those same Rights and on the other the French speaking who desperately want to cling to an unitarian model of Belgium that doesn't exist anymore except in their dreams...
Split Belgium now, but recognize the rights of minorities and expand the borders of Brussels. Belgium exist of three parts : Flanders, Walloon and Brussels.
Notwithstanding the blatant denial of Brussels rights by the Flemish (since Brussels is the most rich and known place in Belgium, they desperately want it to be part of Flanders when only 10% of the Brussels population votes for Flemish parties.)
Wait, doesn't Bush speak Spanish at least well enough to do those radio addresses in Spanish? So either he's an elitist who wasted his time on it, or even a complete moron can handle at least two. Take your pick.
Seriously, sometimes Republican apologists just have very strong positions about things that I vehemently disagree with. Other times it's like they're trying to act like total douchebag morons. They're like a parody of themselves--I'm pretty sure if he weren't on Comedy Central, a significant percentage of these people would think Colbert was awesome.
Actually, maybe this logic explains why so many jobs have been shipped to India--obviously all those guys answering tech support calls (not to mention just about every engineer in the country) is at least bilingual, so clearly they're also smarter than most Americans, and therefore (by "conservative" the-fittest-prosper logic) more deserving of those jobs. But that's ok, I guess we have plenty of service industry jobs for people who aren't up to a second language. Would you like fries with your un-American put-downs?
And incidentally, my household is 80/20 bilingual, with the percentages reversed depending on whether it's my spouse or I doing the talking. Guess that means I'm just way the hell smarter than these people. By their own admission. Not saying much, but hey.
CAlI @ 41:
The Indo European family tree of language, at the core most common words for the very basic items of life are pretty similar.
Water, bread, beer all look similar or are modifications of the root word.
If my memory recalls, according to a BBC radio 4 program long ago, Basque is the odd man out language in Europe,
its a stand alone language of a mountain people that kept their very old origins intact.
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