Naomi Klein Debunks Bush's Off Shore Drilling Plan; But Does FBC Hear It?
Gah! I admit that I've never watched Fox Business Channel, even though my cable company carries it. Based on this clip of their "after-the-market-closes" show, Happy Hour, I see I've made a wise choice. What kind of surreal experience is this? Bar set, complete with a bartender and business men with their brewskis in the background, host Rebecca Gomez looking like she's ready to hook up and whose only research before interviewing Naomi Klein appears to be skimming the reviews of The Shock Doctrine on Amazon, and to top it off, guest host Eric Bolling admits to not only being an oil trader, but never looking at the book? That's respect, I'll tell you, for the collective intelligence of their viewers as well as Naomi.
Still, with all the obstacles Fox Business Channel places in the way of having an intelligent discussion, Klein still gets in some great points that leave the embarassingly ill-informed Fox hosts with little to do but sputter inanities like "Naomi, do you like capitalism?"
Klein: This is just a classic example of what I mean by ‘disaster capitalism,' which is using a real disaster, a real crisis, or a shock-like the oil shock-to push through policies that you can't get through in normal circumstances. So here you have a shock, you have a real oil crisis. People are in pain, they want solutions. And you got the President, the "Extortionist-in-Chief" whose job is actually to solve the problems, but instead he holds the country hostage. And he says, "Listen, unless you give me ANWR, you'll never drive again."
Gomez: Wait a minute, so this is, just so I've set it up correctly, this is so you're saying that the President's taking advantage of this crisis...
Klein: Exactly...
Gomez: ...to get into ANWR.
Klein: ...to push the wish list of the oil and gas industries. These are not real solutions. People need real solutions. They're presenting this as if it's a short-term solution and you guys know full well that it's a long...if it's any...going to have any kind of impact on gas prices, it's in the long run. But people are so desperate for solutions that they're willing to buy anything.
Bolling: Listen, I have to take the other side of this...
Klein: You're kidding!
Bolling: ...I've been talking a long time about the actual...you know, it's really only about a year to 5 to 6 years to pull some oil out of the water in the outer continental shelf now.
Klein: A year? You need to build the rig!
Bolling: No, no, listen, they're already built. All you have to do is move it.
Klein: I'm hearing different things.
Gomez: He's an oil trader though, Naomi, he may know!
Gah!
Go, Naomi!!!
I love her. She's got guts!!!
all the oil that comes out of alaska now goes to Japan to inflate the profits of Beeg Awl.
All the oil in ANWR, were it brought ion line right now would reduce the price by less than a nickel a gallon.
This is all part of the fire-sale mentality of the Bushevik criminals as they try to sell off the last outstanding resources in the commons to their buddies at exxon and chevron and bp...
Typical Fox dipsticks.
Und if ve move zee rig to anozzer place...dat means dat dat rig can no longer poomp ze oil from ze old vell. Or iz de dumpkof zaying dat ve have exzess rigs?!?!
yeah, one year to get that going.
and we'll only be in iraq for six months...
Anybody wanna bet that if Obama's #44, he opens ANWR and the off-shore fields?
4-1, he does...
Well, first you need to divide it into blocks, and hand out to oil companies,
then they need to send survey ships to do geological surveys, mainly with sonars for the seafloor, and suchlike, to find places where there potentially may be oil stocked up, based on "plugs" they find on their scan of the earth, and analyse said pictures.
Then they need to send out drilling ships to drill several test wells, to locate actual oil.
Then they need to drill several more wells, to establish how large the field is, and if it is worth putting to production.
Then you need an actual production platform.
Several of these ships, and most likely the production of platforms, are bound into contracts for years ahead, and probably the personnell to make platforms as well. Moving platforms from producing wells, to unsurveyed, undrilled, untested areas is pretty much bs.
And,of course, take a look at the FOX "journalists." One looks like a steroid-packin' frat boy, the other has her boobs popping out of her blouse with her skirt hiked up to her crotch.
Typical FOX.
They got plans to develop several energy sources. Just plans. They don't really mean that. They'll never let any other altenative energy source come about. Why? I'd be the first to lose some heavy money. So, imagine what a real oil tycon is thinking. It'll never happened until all oil wells are dry. It's like the plans for a Palestinian country. Bush is so proud about being the first to mention it. But, of course, it'll never happen. Because, that's exactly the plan. All those plans are planned to never happen. Just plain political blah, blah, blah.
AHAHAHAHAHahahahaha!!!
"Hey MAY know"!! ROFFLE!!
Ok, first of all we're talking about someone with the IQ of a postage stamp [shrub]. Second, he hasn't had an independent thought since he was born and third gomez et.al at faux are neocon mouth pieces. You know they're lying because their lips are moving.
How can anyone take any of these idiots seriously? They're a cosmic joke.
I love that the two douchebags look at the book like it's a rabid cobra. "Yeah I read the back". They can read? Highly doubtful.
Gramm is back on the bus.
Have you noticed the big price drop on oil when the warmongering on Iran stops and proposed specuation legislation?
They should drill in the millions of acres allowed, release the oil reserve, then drill in protected areas.
Invest billions in alternatives to go to rehab for the oil addiction using Pickens plan.
McCain said we have suceeded in Iraq so time to withdraw.
Klein is impressive, as always. The oil shill is a tool, and the Fox host is pathetic, but that's what she's paid for.
Take notes, Democrats! She's a winner, not a creampuff like nearly all of you.
woody, tokin librul @ 6:
I will happily take your bet. I'm not sure why C&L has so many Obama Bashers in attendance but there seem to be a cadre of you. You act as those you're surprised he's a "politician." The man plans on being president of the whole country not just the liberal portion. He has to say and do things that will allow everyone to feel that they can participate.
Two things:
1. We're going to get him or McSame. Not Nader, not Paul, not a Libertarian or a Green candidate. Take your pick, who's a better bet? Could we end up disappointed, maybe. Will we end up flushed down the toilet with McCain. Guaranteed.
2. Obama is a thinking man. Listen to his speeches, there are actual thoughts, awareness of long term consequences, awareness that the rest of the world matters and impacts our affairs. Is he going to be influenced by Big Business. OF COURSE, no one in that office can avoid it; NO ONE. He's going to be walking a tight rope with a tank of hungry sharks waiting for him to slip up.
I suggest we give him the benefit of the doubt that he's not a wholly owned subsidiary of the Global Corporatacracy. He can do a lot more if he knows the "people" have got his back. I'm going to watch him like a hawk but I'm going to support him 100% until he proves he doesn't deserve my support.
On the short term what other choice do we really have?
is there much naomi can add to "we need to diversify" or "a rig takes 1 year to build"?
seriously.
i love naomi, but she's way out of her element on this one.
Naomi go to FOX Bizarro land and am asked answers by Bizarro journaloids. Naomi tell Bizarro what happening. Presidumb Bush is using a crisis to put money in the wallets of his pals. Bizarros say you must be dumb on a count Bush is Leader Man and Holy. Naomi laughs in amazement. Bizarro Oil Guy says you want see my oil rig. It biiiig. He laugh and Bizarro journaloid laugh. Naomi not laugh.
All Fox bizarro viewers laugh snot out of noses and say Naomi one of them lezbees.
And lots of bizarro Ameriguns watch Fox. /sigh/
"Gomez: He’s an oil trader though, Naomi, he may know!"
Wow she admitted he only MAY know. She must be new.
That Bolling is a fucking goof. He offered nothing but an automatically opposing view to Naomi Klein just to get attention as the "contrary" person. "I completely disagree with Mrs. Klein's facts." Bolling, I would rather sniff a stinky, steaming pile of shit all day than listen to you.
Yes, you have to build the rig. Why do you have to build the rig? Because the damned things cost several hundred million dollars apiece, and they eat up so much steel that there's a 5-year backlog before any of the rigs in service, or expected to come into service, could possibly get moved to the continental shelf. I should know. I own SeaDrill, and every available rig was recently snatched up for the deep-water project off Brazil. And SeaDrill has more rigs on order, which are also already under lease for when they are ready to come online.
"You know Naomi you'd be like so much cuter if you tried some brighter colors and maybe undid a few buttons ..."
Ignore these dumb Fox and listen to a chilling hour long interview with the author of "The Dark Side":
democracynow.org
First Baptist Church?
What does Rev. W A Criswell have to do with oil drilling?
steve davis @ 18:
and word is it takes 10 YEARS to build a refinery ... 10 YEARS!
Anytime you go on Fox and aren't drowned out by the torrent of stupidity, it's a win.
I've never seen that show before, but what a bizarre set. Do they have commercial breaks for the hosts to go puke in the bathrooms?
steve davis @ 18:
Good lord, man. Stop introducing facts into this. You'll ruin the entire political process.
Man, do we need us some more Naomi Kleins. You go, woman! Imagine her and Maddow co-anchoring a show!
FOX News goons coming down on the side of big oil drilling with nary a mention of big oil's record profits. No one saw that coming I'm sure.
How is it that we still are not taxing the bejeezus out of oil companies when they are making the kind of profits that could run most small countries through out the world?
They have made money out extracting our resources and the worlds - now is the time to give a sizeable amount of the profits for alternative energy research and implimentation.
Or do have to send a horse's head to Raymond when he sleeps with his 438 Million retirement gift?
Wow. Captains of Industry!! Did the "oil guy" give Naomi a tip and his number on a cocktail napkin, with promises of more talk about drilling?
Stay classy, fox!
"This is a problem we can't drill our way out of."
- T. Boone Pickens
That he may have a significant sidebar agenda on no way mitigates the truth of the statement.
Leave the oil where it is. The shit is choking the planet. We should -- and can -- move beyond oil and coal.
i really, truly, sincerely and honestly hope that ms. klein walks or bikes to work, because she did (seriously) blame the oil industry for climate change, and not herself, or any human being who depends on fossil fuels.
for all of us who (at some time) use fossil fuels live our (admittledly polluted) lives, we must all accept responsibility for climate change, and not just the oil companies, who, by the way, are made up of far more than just a handful of rich CEOs.
let's be serious once and for all.
i will put this in bold letters:
if you want to prevent further climate change, and take action on a personal and direct level, i would suggest that you: stop driving, stop taking public transportation, and also, stop buying any products which depend on fossil fuels.
can you do it? it's very difficult, isn't it?
so many, many products depend on fossil fuels. the vast majority of human beings are inextricable from fossil fuels. we must first admit that before we go and blame oil industry executives.
Instead of saying anything, that big dope Bolling should have brought Mrs. Klein a menu and that skank should've asked her what would she like to drink.
votingvet @ 15:
After watching the video -- I just ate lunch and am having a hard time holding it down -- I want to apologize to all the inhabitants of Bizarro world. Naomi Klein is brilliant, a diamond next to 2 dungheaps. Steroid guy hasn't read the book but really wants to make a move on the guest; Cleavage Bimbo, poor dear, really wants people to believe she has something to say -- she's read some reviews of the book!
And it all comes down to the stupid nonsequitur at the end:"Naomi (pause for shock value) are you against Capitalism?"
Naomi for Speaker of the House!!!! Boot Pelosi!!!
I think Fox gets their ideas for set design here:
Indicted. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=y2PLXFe93yc&feature=related
Poor subtitles for added fun!
Naomi was great and even Fox's talking heads allowed her to present her very persuasive argument.
Capitalism isn`t the problem greed is.
When Rebecca Gomez speaks...brain cells die.
31 Leadership Says: Naomi for Speaker of the House!!!! Boot Pelosi!!!
Interesting choice of words. The Spanish Inquisition had a torture called The Boot. Once on the feet they would use some devices to tighten it until the crushed the bones of the feet, although sometimes for a giggle pour boiling oil into it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj_bR5jf0Kc
woody, tokin librul @ 6:
I second that! Lately he's been pandering the right, for votes that he will never get, even if he was running unchallenged.
They're all wrong on several fronts. Energy diversity is extremely important but the fact is that oil still is the most abundant source of energy, the sources she's speaking of, wind, solar, hydroelectric, coal, they all have drawbacks with significant environmental impact. Wind farms kill birds, solar creates large swaths of unairable land, hydroelectric diverts rivers vastly changing eco systems, and coal is just another natural resource that humans pull from the ground and burn.
As a person who works in the oil industry, not someone "who invests in oil futures and talks to people" but someone who makes his living on oil leases I can tell you that drilling takes next to no time to happen. A rig can be put anywhere and a hole can be drilled in a matter of weeks. But then what? Then the well has to be stimulated to produce, pipelines have to be layed to get the oil to the refineries and then the refineries have to do their thing. Depending on the distance from existing infrastructure and difficulties in topography building a pipeline can take several years to complete, not to mention the fact that most oil companies will hold-off on investing in a pipeline until a given field is proven to be worth the expense.
But the big problem is the lack of refineries. Since the 1980's over 100 refineries have closed in the US and the last one was built in 1979. Why? Because of environmental laws. US citizens do not like oil refineries polluting their sky, water, and making noise where their kids play. And for good reason. Environmental laws simply make it not worth the effort for any company to attempt to build a refinery, there are too many opposing factors, you have environmental lobbyists, hunters, land developers, etc, then you have concerned citizens in the local area that will need to be appeased, AND THEN you have the strict environmental regulations that must be followed to the letter at great expense. All these things make it simply more expedient and cost effective to build refineries in other countries such as Venezuela, where the people don't speak out and the government doesn't care about the pollution.
There is a global refinery shortage and that drives prices up more than anything. Investors and oil futurists invest based on the price of GAS, it doesn't matter how much crude is backed up behind the refinery bottleneck, if gas demand is there prices rise.
This shows the true deception from the administration. Drilling will not alleviate any gas prices and it certainly will not yield any results faster than developing any alternative energy source will. However these prices make it extremely profitable to drill in new areas, and I'm certain a few supporting members of the bill will receive a bit of blowback. One thing to watch for though is the potential lifting of a few select environmental regulations regarding refineries, this sort of shock doctrine deception lends it's self well to sliding a few "fixes" to environmental policy under the table to appease the industry.
boy, are they sorry!
Never bring any intelligent people on fux?
I give Fox cudos for having Naomi on there.... although they may not have known really who they were booking.... The problem for FOX business is that if they want to be successful they need to have really legitimate discussions and not just seen through the eyes of their Republican slant.... people in the financial markets, who are only interested in making money, do not care about politics...they care about what is true and makes sense...
Sure FOX can play politics on their regular news channel, but they will not be able to get away with it as easily on their business channel.... otherwise if their business channel is know for bullshit and false facts no business people will take it seriously and watch it.... a bit of a dilema for FOX... you can't push offshore oil drilling unless you talk about what it really means... if you just push the politics.... no business viewer will watch, as you can't make money off bullshit..
Nolan @ 3:
Absolutely, big headed self important frat guy, next to a bubbly big boobed bimbet spewing the Fox Doctrine! Naomi should use this "interview" to show how the admin is fooling the masses with propoganda! BTW in a two bit bar set for god's sake, what is that about? Cheers meets Wall Street? More like Back Alley Dive meets Day Traders!
Schoonerhelm:
Is it true a refinery takes 10 years to come online?
Rebecca Gomez says, "I do it as well. I never do anything until I absolutely have to.... (Like this breast enhancement. I put off that until Fox told me I wold go on camera. What do ya think? Worth the money?)"
He's a trader? That means he knows oil rigs? Like crap it does.
I dare them to talk to a petroleum engineer - a real live one.
Ooooh .. might get the chairs dirty.
Van @ 8:
yeah it's surreal and terrifying. it's the same reason pharmaceutical companies recruit college cheerleaders as sales people and pay them
insane amounts of money. under the polished beauty lies the BEAST.
To play devil's advocate here..
but does anyone at least give Fox, and this show for having Naomi on at all?
Next Time FOX Should Run The Show From a Whore House And Ask If The High Cost Of Oil Is Driving The Cost Of Lubricants To The Roof
naomi doesn't "hate" capitalism....she has a problem when capitalism has an unfair advantage. capitalists
waiting for a scenario/diasaster to bypass democracy
(legislative branch) to put their agenda into place.
naomi was on C&L a few days ago. when given a chance
she is able to articulate these issues quite well. what gets me they push their will on us and we pay for it. as you can see naomi takes issue with these type strategies....so what do the fox people do they go for the throat...."some people say you don't like capitalism
these are black and white thinkers....naomi is a gray area thinker
earl @ 42:
No. The task of building a refinery can take a few years, however they're now built in stages. So a first stage will be built in around 8 months and begin producing then they'll begin their 2nd stage, 3rd, 4th and so on. The big barrier to building them isn't the actual construction process but being allowed to build it in the first place. It can and likely does take 10 years or more to get approval from all the various checks, balances and vocally interested parties when you're trying to build a refinery in a democratic nation. The solution is usually to not bother and go to a not-so democratic country, pay off the local dictators and start building. Much more efficient.
Schoonerhelm @ 38:
Yeah, LOL, and don't forget the latest Perfectionism Fallacy whine: wind farms also, while pureeing the birds, suck the wind energy out of the air, changing the weather on the lee/downwind side of the wind farms.
And, I suppose those evil AquaBuOY wave generators will wreak havoc on surfers by siphoning off wave energy.
Right. We're fucked, no matter what we do.
Schoonerhelm @ 38:
As are you are highly miss-informed or in the dark about geo-thermal it seems.
Nolan @ 3:
Very much so, though that is a very typical american approach and world view of them. Look at what is happening opposed to how a few (here and in general) feel.
Lindsay @ 34:
Actually it's both, as americans understand of capitalism is very skewed (as with socialism), opposed to what it really is, hence the defence of a broken and destructive system and the fear and ignorance of another.
Holiday Gas Tax is the solution? Gas Tax Holiday Bimbet, Christ how many fake beers does she drink while filming this skit?
I have to give the classy Naomi Klein credit for being so dignified and gracious with these two Fox boobs. The Fox people aren't even good enough to have a community cable show. I'm surprised Fox even put Naomi on the air because her "Shock Doctrine" ideas will be mindblowing to their audience because 1) Fox watchers have never heard Naomi's theory before and 2) The theory makes absolute sense. I'm half way through Ms. Klein's "No Logo" right now.
BobbyG @ 52:
Completely wrong, though if you want to write everything off and run for the hills ......... then sure you are.
It's a two fold issue, one is making the power, which there are a few ways to do well. The other is using it and the US is the biggest gross waster of energy going, the mindless obese societal habits are to blame as well. Leaving air con at home when not there, driving the hummer 1 mile to the drug store to get drugs to medicate a symptom likely brought on by no exercise etc .......
n1K @ 48:
No, Fox thought they could trip her up and get a sound bite they could use against her, get her to say something "unpatriotic" and "loonie" too bad they didn't know who she is!
n1K @ 48:
The reason they had her on so they could try and discredit her and laugh at her, go over the questioning and language used against her in the interview again. Now that they have done that they can assume a faux high ground for being balanced and discredit her in future in hind sight as the americon people have a 3 second memory so will just believe what ever it is that they say happened in the interview.
"only about a year to 5 to 6 years"
Logic like this is why we are in Iraq.
Jerry @ 56:
No argument from me there. I was just being snarky. We comprise 5% of world population and consume 25% of its energy production. A Change Be Gonna Come.
One way or another.
BobD @ 57:
FOX : "Gas tax break good idea or not"
NK : "I don't know"
FOX : "Then we are going to completely ignore everything else you've said".
Job done
Ruthless People Says: FOX News goons coming down on the side of big oil drilling with nary a mention of big oil’s record profits. No one saw that coming I’m sure.
Exxon and Chevron run a lot of ads on Faux now.
BobbyG @ 60:
I think Darwin will have something to do with it as well, though unfortunately the ones that live in a sustainable way and can move back to harmony with the land and food will be over run by the ones in their hummers with machine guns and US flags out every window.
As for power, there is shed loads enough for everyone in the US : http://www1.eere.energy.gov/geothermal/future_geothermal.html
Bush just cut the funding to building any of it 6 (ish I think) years ago.
Corporations are like sooo 18th century
We're talking today about transnationalism and multinationalism.
49 Lindsay Says: Next Time FOX Should Run The Show From a Whore House And Ask If The High Cost Of Oil Is Driving The Cost Of Lubricants To The Roof
Once they noticed a downturn of long-haul truck drivers
Nevada brothels started handing out gas coupons.
BobbyG @ 52:
I didn't say that. I said that it all has it's drawbacks. I know geothermal exists, but I don't have any numbers on how much energy it can produce, however I don't see geothermal energy powering cities yet so I assume it's not totally cost effective yet or requires more infrastructure than currently exists. Wave generators are great, however same diff, how many are required to power a nation? And how many does it take to significantly effect marine life? One wave generator in the ocean is fine and won't do a lick of harm, but acres and acres of them could cause a lot of environmental impact.
I'm not saying it's all impossible and that Oil is the only way, it's not and we need to use these new methods, what I am saying is that everything has an environmental footprint and a drawback and we have to mitigate these drawbacks to preserve our planet and diversify energy sources.
ysbaddaden @ 64:
Neither of which is sustainable when you get right down to it, but what the hell actually is?
And as for the OP, I consider ANWR drilling to be stupid. Ain't nowhere near enough damn oil to fuel 304 million Americans in that ratty ol' place.
Those Fox people got pawned and all they can say at the end is "she's feisty, isn't she". Way to go Naomi. You ran circles around those "pinheads" as their colleague Billo would say.
Jerry @ 61:
BobD @ 57:
No, Fox thought they could trip her up and get a sound bite they could use against her, get her to say something "unpatriotic" and "loonie" too bad they didn't know who she is!
Yeah, good points... I think for the most part though, except for that last question.. Do you like capitalism, and companies making money.., they sort of let her speak her mind without speaking over her and interrupting (ala O'Reilly)..
I learned a lot from Shock Doctrine, and I think the press Naomi has been getting recently, where she even shows up on a Fox Business channel, must mean something.. Her book is very timely, and even the hosts jumps right in to dissecting the oil shock and the response by Bush to drill, drill, drill..
I don't know, as much as they were trying to get a gotcha moment from Naomi, or perhaps to say see how balanced we are, we ever had her on our show, I hope the fact that she was invited means her book and ideas are gaining traction in the mainstream.
Thanks for responding to my post..
General_Rennenkampf @ 67:
good point another issue with ANWR is having a pipeline down to the states experts/insurance are aware of the possible leaks/terrorists attacks and being on permafrost. the pipeline requires maintenance and around the clock protection....very expensive at today's cost...this has been known for years
Why should Naomi Klein need to? Dick Cheney admitted it was a false rumor.
Schoonerhelm @ 66:
Figures are here .
The graph on 1-17 shows the resource in the US, and that that most conservative approach shows that it is vastly greater that the energy currently being used.
Lots of Nordic countries, the Philippines, Iceland, New Zealand etc get 25-50% of their power from it today and are growing that, many of their cities are run solely on it.
Sure the US has bigger populations that all of those countries put together, it also has vastly more geo resource than them all put together, by an order of magnitude.
It's just that "someone" cut the funding to it all ......... funny that a CA company is up here in BC building geothermal plants with the intent of selling the power back to the US .......
I am shocked that anyone that writes for, reads, has read, or will one day read C&L is shocked by the content contained in programs appearing on Fox television. Is this really all that offensive, really? Of course Fox trots out propaganda like the sun rises each morning.
Did anyone notice how set apart Naomi was from the hosts, as though she didn't want to be exposed to some virus. Maybe the dude (Bolling?) is the touchy-feely kind. Poor, brave Naomi - putting up with idiots in order that her book have more exposure.
Norse @ 7:
That's assuming that there's any oil there at all. The 1998 USGS report estimated that there was 4.8 billion barrels in ANWR that was technically recoverable. There might not be any.
10 Points on why Drilling in ANWR Won't Save you
Even McCain Agrees: ANWR drilling won't help at all
constituent @ 70:
Yeah, those are good points too. Alaska is a big place, but I can't see it sustaining 304 million people, nor do I understand why people will talk about this without doing research on it (not referring to you, you understand). Something as important as oil to the US requires research and understanding of geology and economics and a lot of other things. Most people in the US don't bother to learn any of them.
General_Rennenkampf @ 75:
Most people in the US don't bother to learn anything, even when it is spoon fed and widely available ......
Like Fox people have any credibility...
Lindsay @ 36:
You're right but the structure of greed in this country is corporatism. when asked if you are against capitalism, you say no, but corporations allow the greedy to abuse capitalism, therefor the need for regulations and laws. They frame the discussion, they want you to admit you're a commie, you tell them to kiss your ass and re-frame it.
Next they'll just skip telling us we need to drill and not waste time trying to manage the perceptions of the citizens of this country that we need to drill and just make platforms and drill. We're so dumb we wouldn't know if they were doing it and since it wouldn't be on the news we would only hear it from Greenpeace or independent sources. Then they could just sneak an insert in next year's federal transportation budget bill to make it legal and we would be none the wiser.
There are no supply problems. Any oil drilled on our own land or in our own waters goes into an international pool and is sold on the open market so we will never see a decrease in the price until the speculation is taken out of the trading pits. If anyone tells you that drilling on our own land will make us energy independent or it will make for cheaper gas is a liar. The people who tell these lies expect that you're not smart enough or don't have time enough to research it yourself because you're too busy making slave wages so you can put $4 per gallon gas into your cars.
So after they do all the surveys
and do test bores
and do actually find oil
and then they find out the field is actually big enough to make it economically feasible to pump
and after they move the rigs
and drill the production wells
and pump the oil...
who do they sell it to?
Why do these Fox assholes assume the United States automatically gets all the oil from those wells?
These conservatives are always all holy and righteous about the free market and capitalism, but they pretend that doesn't exist when it's time to sell the oil. They pretend all the oil drilled from offshore and ANWR will go to the US exclusively.
They ignore how huge the amount they have to find and pump in order to raise global supply levels enough to reduce the price caused by demand.
Fucking dishonest retards. They better find an oil reserve the size of Saudia Arabia if they want to reduce supply enough to cause gas prices to drop more than a few cents per gallon.
I would so love to see all the Florida retirees and South Carolina conservatives and Texas goopers who screamed for this shit, then look out their condo window on the coast and see oil rigs (and oil spills) and then see a fleet of Chinese and Indian tankers out there waiting to take all "their" oil away.
You don't get to go around preaching holy Freemarket this and sacred Freemarket that, then pretend it's a top-down economy when it comes to explaining how this oil that hasn't even been found yet is gonna end up making gas cheap in the US.
Fucking dishonest retards. Conservatives. Redundant.
naomi's interview on democracy now is better and more in depth than the fox interview (plus you have the added bonus of an intelligent host, not some sports bar low brow journalism)
airlines under a lot of pressure due to fuel prices
they buy fuel futures....airlines say speculators
are having a large impact on rising prices
http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=69257
tee-hee @ 80:
Oh, good point. I hadn't thought of that... You can't mess with free market economics, according to these deep thinkers...
Brendan @ 83:
Jerry @ 76:
@ Jerry: Also true, which will put us further and further behind as we are told louder and louder we are ahead of the world.
@ Brendan: Which is the biggest pile of horseshit since the Augean Stables. It was after we turned to laissez-faire that capitalism went down the tubes, Keynesian economics, with a more interventionist ideal caused the 50s and 60s boom to last as long as it did.
Brendan @ 83:
Right. You must understand that this "free market" activity is anything but. They pool all the oil into an international market and then it gets bid and contracts are applied. This is done for total control of the commodity so that OPEC or Russia or the Venezuela doesn't dump their oil to flood the market and drive down prices. That is also one of the main reasons that there will always be speculation built into the trading pits. The other is that there is no incentive for Exxon/Mobil to have lower priced oil. They're making so much money, you think they want lower pricing? This is a totally fixed market. And the other funny thing is that the investment banks are using our 401k and hedge fund dollars to drive up the price of oil purchasing and selling oil futures. Shearson Lehman is holding $1 trillion in futures contracts alone. And they bet it long. So if the price of oil crashes, they lose massive amounts of money (most of it being ours).
Oh fuckin' pleeeeze. Not worth the effort? Too expensive? For oil companies that make record profits -- ten to 11 billion dollars profit every three months? You lying sack of shit.
No, if the argument that what's causing high prices is the bottleneck due to limited refinery capacity is true, then what's "not worth the effort" is not due to the cost -- they can afford dozens of new refineries -- but the effect new refineries would have on supply prices.
More refineries, no more supply bottleneck.
No more bottleneck, no more high prices
No more high prices, no more record profits
Blaming it on environmental laws is just more Conservative bullshit coverup lies.
If there's a bottleneck at the refineries, it's because the oil companies want it that way.
Fucking dishonest retards. Conservatives. Redundant.
Go Naomi!
Also- I had no idea Charo had a FOX show. Cuchi cuchi!
The Only Solution is for a general strike.I Know It Will Never Happen On a Scale Large Enough To Bring Lower Gas Prices or For That Matter Lower Home Heating Costs,Winter is only a few months away Or Lower Food Prices.If Everyone Went Out Stocked Up On Food and Water to Last a Few Months and Everyone Just Stayed Home.Don`t Go To Work, Don`t Drive Your Car, Don`t Go To The Mall And Buy Crappy Lost Jobs To China Junk.Just Stay Home and Bring The Economy To a Complete halt.I Bet The One`s Running Things Call Them The Global Elite or Whatever You Want Prices Of Things Will Drop Really Fast and If Once People Go Back To Their Jobs and Prices Head Up Again Repeat Untill The Greedy Bastards Backs Are Broken For Good.Were Told Things Cost What They Do due To Supply and Demand Not Shortages.Well Buy Nothing Let The Food Rot Let The Oil Companies Drown In Their Own Oil.Were Nothing But Wage Slaves and The Only Power We Have Is To Strike.
Never a truer sentence written, Charles, evah.
The "free market" these conservatives love to extol is as controlled as any communist economy, but it's controlled for the benefit of the Exxon/Mobils and the Sherson Lehmans of the world.
In other words, folks, it's rigged for them and theirs, and as a bonus they get to be all holier-than-thou while dishonestly conflating "free market" and "free enterprise" with "freedom" and "democracy" in the course of telling you of the wonderful benefits said free market provides for you at $5.85 an hour.
Ms. Klein, another voice in the wilderness....sigh..... While Ms. airhead and Mr. big-shot oil 'trader' try to tag team her, pretty unsucessfully as it turns out....(I liked that part, yes, feisty indeed. Grrrl can take care of herself pretty well in mixed company.)
I wish I had participated in the Klein thread discussion yesterday, but I just didn't have anything usefull to add. My mood was and remains too dark right now. I will buy her book, I wish we had more like her raising the conscienceness of the masses. A few like her in congress would be a big help right now as well......JD
Schoonerhelm's better than an oil trader, he works in the oil industry, he speaks the truth!
Myths about US Oil refineries
Internal Memos show oil companies limited refineries to drive up prices
That's it ! I've fucking had it with Fox's attempts at placing esthetically appealing people in the place of smart, credible people. Have you seen traders lately ? They're coked out of their minds and money is the first and foremost preoccupation of their entire lives. Greed is good ? How about extortion and white collar crimes. The bimbo had nothing to say. I am tired of idiots with good looks taking the mic - we need to smack them in the face WITH the mic or just ignore them. Take a little about Hayek and see how far they go, even if it's in keeping with their economic values (do they really have any values ?). I haven't seen the clip, but if I do, I might as well punch a hole in the wall, because I fear getting really angry. I was reading some posts by the NYU Stern Business school prof Nouriel Roubini and he had something interesting in there... Socialized the losses and privative the gains... Let those rich bitches (geared more towards those male-whores that snif and emit stupid predictions) suffer because of their bad bets, as opposed to having my tax dollar salvage their careers. Fucking assholes.
Cheers,
k
Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.
Typical fuckin' conservative agenda.
We've already seen this with the Bear Stearns bailout, and the Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae gov't loans. BS execs made billions off of securities backed by mortagages they knew were under water, and the financial institutions used Freddy and Fanny as their reliable no-questions-asked buyer for the endless stream of shitty mortagages they knew they were writing. And they all made tens of billions in fees. And predictably they all bitched and moaned about taxes and capital gains and how taxing the rich would only harm everyone else, and how they deserved the outrageous amounts of money they were getting paid, how they were entitled to the grotesque bonuses they were taking home.
And when the bottom dropped out, as it must because as they were enriching themselves they were bankrupting their companies.
And now fucking look what happened: Everybody has to pay to cover their losses.
They made billions, ran their companies into the ground, then cashed out. We the people get stuck holding the bag, to the tune of $30 billion for BS and god knows how much for the others.
Thirty billion to pay for the rich men's party. How do you like that demonstration of the great Republican free market?
It's the Ownership Society. And you just got owned.
tee-hee @ 93:
You got it! The employees get pink slips and the executive management get new houses.
Really tho, if the population thinks off-shore drilling is going to help in the short-term, they deserve what they get. Why drag this out? Just give them everything they want. They'll get it anyway. Why go though the pretend drama?
I've lost the will to hope.
94 Charles Says: tee-hee @ 93
You got it! The employees get pink slips and the executive management get new houses.
But what if I'm into transvestitism?
Reduce global warming - shut down Fox Business Channel.
First off, I agree with Naomi on not drilling in ANWR and off our coasts. And I'm personally happy that gas is so high. It's keeping jerks from buying SUVs and ultimately it will help global warming.
But Naomi is claiming that conservatives are using this crisis to push for more oil drilling.
Well, she's using this "crisis" to push for alternative fuels. It seems she's doing the same thing. It's hypocritical.
As always, Klein has a lot to complain about but no solutions. If you've ever read any of her books, you'd know what I mean.
General_Rennenkampf @ 84:
Indeed, and the shocking thing is going slower than the leader(s) is one thing ............. actually going backwards and accelerating at that, is mind meltingly shocking .......
I loved when the Fox bimbo kept saying "holiday gas tax." What on earth is that? You pay extra if you fill up on Christmas day? Hilarious!
We know where the oil is. Its in the area around the Continental Shelf and east, west, south and north somewhat.
"feisty isn't she"(code for shrill)"..first time I've ever seen you Eric trying to get a word in.."(code for pushy and rude)
Nice of the co-host BTW,to behave as if Naomi had already left the set.
Classic passive aggressive bitch.
toosinbeymen @ 13:
Hmmm. Pointed and inflammatory - a strong start. However there was no 'two' in your 'one-two punch.' Instead, you squander the opportunity by using the adverb 'nearly.' Suggest next time you rephrase to something like: "Take notes, Democrats! She’s a winner, not creampuffs like the rest of you." Overall, a respectable freshman effort at trolling, somewhat hindered by flawed execution.
A solid B-
BobD @ 54:
She barfs the cocktails right back up. Its the valiums that make her loopy.
pinkobait @ 102:
I'm shocked, shocked, to find misogyny on Fox Business Channel!
Cismontane @ 25:
That would be impossibly fantastic.
Hell, at this point, I'd even still settle for a H&C-style show featuring Donald Trump and Rosie O'Donnell as hosts/adversaries/point-counterpoint.
Old Billy Hussein @ 105:
Yeah I guess I was "belaboring the obvious" eh
Klein: A year? You need to build the rig!
Bolling: No, no, listen, they’re already built. All you have to do is move it.
Klein: I’m hearing different things.
Gomez: He’s an oil trader though, Naomi, he may know!
I wish she would have said "Perhaps Bolling and his oil friends are beginning to build their rigs now ... in anticipation of ... or with assurances from Bush that he'll be ramming yet another set of greedy corporate priorities through the people's government in direct contradiction to the greater good for the United States of America."
Cripes ... i felt the media held us hostage during the Clinton-Lewinsky-Starr debacle, but this sort of pain from pundits is true torture. When I watch and think of all the other people who ACTUALLY BELIEVE WHAT THEY ARE WATCHING!! It's just frightening.
Wow poor Naomi. She was talking to 2 absolute dummies. All she said went right over their heads for the most part. And the guy looked like he wanted to slug her. I'm convinced those aren't real humans working at that place.
Hey Naomi....here is what you say to that 5 to 6 year BS...
In addition, new hydrocarbon fields are increasingly found in deep-water regions that are arduous to exploit. The paucity of the specialized equipment needed to extract oil from such new reserves has created a bottleneck in future offshore production. The world's current fleet of specialized drill ships is booked until 2013. The price of building such a vessel has taken a five-fold jump to $500 million in the last year. The cost of crucial materials -- such as steel for rigs and pipelines -- has risen sharply. So, too, have salaries for skilled manpower in the industry. Little wonder then that while, in 2002, it cost $150,000 a day to hire a deep-water rig, it now costs four times as much.
Gomez: He’s an oil trader though, Naomi, he may know!
There's only two things most traders know - fear and greed.
Moral of the day...
ANY right wingnut fantasyland BS talking point about Offshore drilling can be debunked...ANY OF THEM...
I love Naomi's book.
She is one smart cookie.
You get no baloney from her.
P.S. What a terrible interview,the background
noise is so distracting and annoying.
Maria
Bolling? His name should be Bollocks.
She needs to be booked on cable news shows much more.
Yeah, and Enron was an energy trader, but did that qualify them to advise on energy policy? Oh, yes - I guess it would have on Fox.....
Yeah baby, he's a trader, and traders understand how to move multi-million ton things across the seabed floor! We'll leave out the engineers, since they are only trained in how to move things across the seabed floor. After all, they may have an agenda, and might not be pro-oil.
lou dobbs is on board for this oil and gas giveaway. ... he is saying some crazy sh......
i guess the new talking point is going to be ..."it will only take a year"
lou dobbs pointed out that oil has been dropping everyday since gw made his move.....and now it's checkmate against the democratic congress.
the t boone pickens campaign has an odd timing coinciding with the presidents move and this big push.....the motive of which is to get everyone to say...drumbeat please....
"we need to get off foreign oil" which of course i agree. however i think t boones campaign is really about oil drilling....i don't trust republicans...i don't think his wind and solar campaign is genuine. i think it's a trojan horse....
johnnypunchclock @ 98...
Naomi also said they use this tactic to push through legislation that otherwise would never get passed without the fear, shock, and chaos. Why would the Conservatives have such a hard time getting legislation passed without shocking the system. Because the legislation they propose doesn't work nor does is it ever in the best interest of the American people. On the other hand, Klein states the real crisis is climate change not the shortage of oil which is what the oil industry would have everyone believe. Klein did propose a solution whuch she said is energy diversity by investing in various alternative energy sources such as wind, solar, and hydro power. Longterm investments are needed to move the energy policy in this direction. This becomes increasingly difficult because privatization has made it extremely difficult for economists and financial markets to truly know just how bad the state of the economy is right now.
What the hell is a "holiday gas tax"? I know Ms. Gomez means gas tax holiday, but it does indicate how little she knows about the subject. Amazing.
Call Rep. Neil Abercrombie (Dem, Hawaii, isn't that special, who's saddling up with the Republicans to lift the offshore ban) and ask his aids if he's for drilling off the coast of Hawaii? Most will say they don't know, but one or two will snort and say, "you can't drill off the coast of Hawaii because it's a 10,000 foot drop." (takes a genius to know that) Then I say to them, "so he's for spoiling our coastlines but not Hawaii's?"
Why would a perfectly good Dem go all dumb and sell out to big oil? I'll tell you what his angle is: Hawaii's f*cked. 2000 miles out in the Pacific. Can't fly in the food and the tourists things are going to get tough.
i can't wait for someone to tell me how much oil we have mysteriously hidden in our coasts. Is there any? All signs point to no.
I cannot state how much respect I have for this woman, thank you for trying to reach the rubes who could tune in to watch CHEERS on FAUX, complete with two actors who portray journalists
It's was so EASY and hilarious to see her slap these knuckle dragging Reslugs around on faux Noise. Good job Naomi!!
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