Thomas Frank to Colbert: The argument of my book is that conservatives suck
By SilentPatriot Friday Aug 08, 2008 8:45am
Thomas Frank appeared on "The Colbert Report" last night to promote his new book, The Wrecking Crew: How Conservatives Rule, and succinctly explained the thesis of his latest work thusly: Conservatives may be good at winning elections, but they suck when it comes to governing.
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"Once you start treating it as a business, you know once you start turning over government operations to the market you're not talking about democracy any more. What you're talking about is plutocracy. Rule by the wealthy. Rule by the market."
(h/t Heather for vids and transcript)
Rough transcript below the fold:
Colbert: My guest tonight says that conservatives have destroyed the government. Oh yeah? Then why do I still have to vote?
[...]..Now you're saying that that uh they don't rule very well. That's your argument. What do you mean by that? They've been ruling for the Congress for most of the nineties and for most of the 1990's, plus they've had control of every other branch of the government. How could they not rule well if they stayed in power? Isn't that the objective of government?
Frank: Yeah I guess if you figure in one, in one sense it is. They've been very good at winning elections. What they've actually been doing in Washington DC though is throwing the bureaucracy into reverse. You know, uh, selling off the government to you know to the highest bidder or in some cases the lowest bidder.
Colbert: Isn't that the quickest way to reduce the size of government? Is that redefine what the role of government is.
Frank: You know that's uh...
Colbert: Government doesn't do this. Government doesn't do that. You know government is just welfare for people who can't put out their own fires.
Frank: That's an excellent suggestion. Just redefine the whole thing. Government isn't about you know looking after the general welfare. Government is about looking after you know our campaign contributors or something like that. The problem is that's not what we have the elections about. That's not what they were elected to do.
Colbert: What were they elected to do? I'll bite.
Frank: I'd start with endorsing the laws.
Colbert: Okay, sure, but laws..
Franks: Labor laws Stephen?
Colbert: Labor laws?
Frank: Yeah.
Colbert: Labor laws are very mutable. Who's to say, who's to say what a hazardous work environment is? I mean maybe OSHA, but if you sell OSHA off to a private enterprise to enforce the labor laws..
Frank: Ah, very good idea. See and this is what's been going on in Washington for the last well, at least the last eight years but if you go back further as I do in the book for the last 28 years it is basically turning over these operations to the private sector where we really have no idea what they're doing.
Colbert: But government's like a business. Why shouldn't a business run the government?
Frank: Well that's the funny thing it ain't a business.
Colbert: It ain't a business? What do you mean it ain't a business? You mean isn't a business? I just wanted to point out that that was grammatically incorrect.
Frank: I believe, I believe you nailed me.
Colbert: I did nail you. How's that feel by the way? How's that feel? Good? Stings a little but it's a good feeling.
Frank:But it's not a business.
Colbert: Okay what is it then?
Frank: Government is the uh, the expression of the uh, you know, public will.
Colbert: But it takes money, it takes money...
Franks: It does take money..
Colbert: It makes it a business.
Frank: Oh very good.
Colbert: It does it takes money...
crosstalk
Frank: Is the Treasury Department a business?
Colbert: There's the deficit, debt...
Frank: Here's the interesting thing. Once you start treating it as a business, you know once you start turning over government operations to the market you're not talking about democracy any more. What you're talking about is plutocracy. Rule by the wealthy. Rule by the market.
Colbert: And people who know what they're doing and that's why they got rich.
crosstalk
Colbert: Who do we give the government to? The losers of the world? You know there's no silver or bronze in life. There's only people who rule and people who follow.
Frank: There was a time, there was a time in this country when a lot of people shared your views on this...
Colbert: A lot of people share my views now sir.
Frank: Maybe so but hopefully it's not the people who vote.
Colbert: Uh huh. We shall see.
crosstalk
Colbert: Tell me, tell me something the conservatives have done to the government that have made our life worse.
Frank: Well if you, let's say you live in New Orleans.
Colbert: No one lives there any more.
Frank: Alright...
crosstalk
Frank: Let's say you are a meat packer in the state of Iowa..
Colbert: Aha yep.
Frank: And you're thirteen years old..
Colbert: Yep.
Frank: You probably shouldn't be, you know, working on the killing floor when you're thirteen.
Colbert: Uh why because I don't want to build character?...Here's the point is. I know that conservatives say like Grover Norquist wills say he wants to make the government so small that he can drown it in a tub. But my question for you is that even if they do that, who's paying for that water? I hope it's not the taxpayer.
Frank: You know exactly. You know the really interesting thing is they haven't shrunk government. I mean it's grown. I mean you vote for these guys...crosstalk..
Colbert: They've made the government weaker.
Frank: They've turned it over to your buddies in the private sector. They've turned it over to the big contractors, the big campaign donors.
Colbert: And what's so wrong with that?
Frank: Well those people don't answer to you and me. They don't answer to "We the People" Stephen. They answer to...
Colbert: Stockholders!
Frank: Yeah, they answer to the stockholders. They answer to "He the Boss".
Colbert: Meet the new boss. It's the same as the old boss.
Frank: You know it is! It is!
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Don't know if anybody heard yet, Bernie Mack died today. So sad, he was one funny mutha fucka.
RIP man. thanks for the laughs!
They love Ronnie...never mention Ike!
Americans better not vote against their own best interest this time around...
Colbert: Meet the new boss. It’s the same as the old boss.
Great! the old boss was Reagan...so that make the new boss...
In reality you have FASCISM when the government is melded with the Corporations so that the government then does the bidding of the Corporations themselves. And the bottom line is then profits at all costs, it creates the psychology of the 'end justifies the means' .. and thus you have a government that then lies, deceives, manipulates, and generates propaganda to that end ... and the 'media' that is then owned by those Corporations also lie , deceive, manipulate, and generate 'narratives' who intention is to try to get people to 'think' that whatever the narratives are are in fact actual 'reality'.... Welcome to what the USA is now .. Frank is right the fuck on ....
Hmf....
By its very nature, Bushite Conservatism (differentiated from Neoconservatism by a few points), which is a mutation of Reaganism, cannot govern. Today's GOP's ideas might well have worked if it were still the 19th Century, maybe. The idea to rule government if it doesn't work fails quite a few philosophical tests and more than a few logical tests. If the GOP sticks to Bushism, they'll eventually become as irrelevant as the Whigs. And it seems that's exactly what they're doing.
Reich-wingers have a homosexual-like obsession with ronny raygun.
Exactly.
I am with Newt.
Shut it down and change that.
Waaaay O/T, but: Bernie Mac dies at 50
We've had a Plutocracy since just after Truman and Ike.
The REAL problem for the last 7+ years is that the Rich kid in office didn't earn his own stash and when he tried to invest in companies he destroyed them, ran them bankrupt. Failed them ....
Get my point ... America is a very large Corporation ... now bankrupt both monetarily and morally.
♥♦♣♠☻..Bangkok Bob..☻♥♦♣♠ @ 9:
No...since Jamestown and Plymouth. The nature of the aristocracy may change in some ways, but aristocracy itself never dies. And saying we're "now" bankrupt is rather cute, as we've never been with much in the way of morality in our history...same as every other nation on the fucking planet. Morality is usually a smokescreen to hide the real reasons things are done, which usually are national self-interest or power grabs.
I'd say he summed it up quite nicely. Conservatives have wrecked our government and screwed up the economy. Yet, look how many Americans are prepared to give McSame the keys to the WH. Go figure.
Conservatism discards Prescription, shrinks from Principle, disavows Progress; having rejected all respect for antiquity, it offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future.
- Benjamin Disraeli
When the 25%ers watch Colbert, do they know it is comedy? I talk to people all the time here in Kentucky that make the same arguments and I sometimes wonder if they don't get their talking points directly from Colbert without getting the joke.
motorfingaz @ 12:
Are you sure you have the right Brit? The guy was a Tory, not a Liberal Party member. Sounds more like Gladstone anyhow.
Off-topic:
Can we please have a FUCK NBC thread, Crooks & Liars? Because what NBC is doing is very crooked.
This is what I am told when I try to get Olympic coverage:
We're sorry, but the below information indicates that you are not a subscriber to an approved TV service provider and are not authorized to watch live, rewind or NBC encore video. If this is not correct, please click "change".
I DON'T HAVE CABLE.
I DON'T GET NBC DUE TO POOR RECEPTION.
THEY TELL ME I CAN'T WATCH ONLINE BECAUSE I DON'T HAVE CABLE.
HOW FUCKED UP IS THAT?!!!!!!!!
We now return to our regularly-scheduled thread.
Buckeye Nut Schell @ 13:
That question haunts me sometimes...
No. 44 @ 15:
I'm guessing it's because it's a major sport event. It's different with their own shows probably. Popular sports events are always negotiated separately and perhaps they chose not to broadcast online.
off topic but Bernie Mac has passed away. :-(
I'm just really broken up over this one...Bernie was a very funny man and this is just shocking.
http://searchingforchetbaker.blogspot.com/
should read: Thomas Frank appeared on “The Colbert Report” THURSDAY night ...
picky picky...
it's confounding that people with "pneunomia" (mac) and a "heart attack" (carlin)
end up dying IN THE HOSPITAL... i don't get it...
Seems the Generals job is to stand above us all and criticize comments.
We're just here to voice some opines and vent our spleens General.
If you want to beat up on people for their comments why not try one of the Republican sites. They needs some beatings.
No. 44 @ 15:
Try here
http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/
They have some live feeds.
great interview!
"Rule by the wealthy. Rule by the market" is FASCISM (talk about a little greed and power with no oversight)
Fascism, "Corporate controlled Government."
Democracy, "people controlled Government."
their is a BIG difference...
♥♦♣♠☻..Bangkok Bob..☻♥♦♣♠ @ 21:
No, I'm not trying to beat up on you, I was simply trying to learn something new. That comment did not sound like Disraeli, at least not the Disraeli that I read about. If you had provided a source, say, I might have learned something new, particularly since I just googled Disraeli and I found nothing about that particular quote.
Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to beat up on you.
Try here
http://www.cbc.ca/olympics/
They have some live feeds.
Thanks, but I tried that. I get a "Sorry, this video is not available in your area" message.
General_Rennenkampf @ 24:
No problem, but I never wrote anything about Disraeli and my quote was only a personal comment.
♥♦♣♠☻..Bangkok Bob..☻♥♦♣♠ @ 26:
Gackawphit-That'll teach me to try to do three things at once online with a couple things done at the same time offline.
Conservatives may be good at winning elections, but they suck when it comes to governing.
which is exactly the point. this is not an accident, it is by design. they don't 'suck' b/c of some sort of bumbling-idiocy, they 'suck' b/c it is their ideological goal to weaken govt.
although, i admit, i wonder why frank refers to them as 'conservatives'....
(suggestion: read frank's 'one market under god', it is a must read, imo)
Samson- @ 28:
BINGO!!!! I loved when I heard Frank say this on the radio talking about his book. This has been my point for 8 years at least: WHY DO YOU PUT PEOPLE WHO HATE GOVERNMENT IN CHARGE OF GOVERNMENT!!!! Makes me want to slam my head into a wall. WTF did people think they were going to do with the gov't given their hatred of what it is and does? Of course they'd get in and dismantle it, BUT they also purposely fail so they can say "see, government is NOT the answer, see?" For example, if you know a certain program needs $50 million, you go to congress and ask for $40 million, you get $20 million. You spend it all, even though, like building a bridge, it takes ALL the money to make the thing work. Then you go out and proclaim, "WE'VE SPENT $20 MILLION TRYING TO FIX THIS - IT DIDN'T WORK - GOVERNMENT IS NOT THE ASWER!!!" Game. Set. Match.
One had only to look at Bush and Putin in the VIP seats last night to know who is beholdin' to COMMUNIST China and who "conservatives" will be fellating for the next few decades, if not forever .
Wait a minute SilentPatriot, Frank's appearance on Colbert was "last night," a Friday night? I think you meant to say this show happened THURSDAY night. Am I wrong?
And by the way people, Frank is right about how conservatives govern (or NOT govern), but this point has been explored in great detail before, and rather shockingly well by former conservative-turned-independent Nixon administration alumnus John W. Dean in his wonderful book "Broken Government" that came out in the Fall of 2007. You should buy it, either in it's current form (hardcover) or the paperback version that comes out September 30.
Conservatives are good at winning elections but lousy at government. Right.
The problem is Liberals are not much better at government but are lousy at winning elections.
Bring on the Greens I say.
neocons are trying to reduce government to a corporate wellfare tool. so of course they run it badly, that is what it looks like when they do that.
Conservatives suck at governing, liberals get sucked while governing.
The new twist on the ever-present American plutocracy is that the simian warmonger - Dubya - has been the hand-puppet for both the dyed-in-the-wool religionists powerbrokers and those cynical, opportunistic, corporatist elites who use the evangelical spin to frame their anti-democratic policies. A more accurate descriptor might be a theocratic plutocracy, which is, historically, a return to feudalism and, more recently, an easy slide into Xtian fascism. Time for another tea party?
Ian, I totally agree that liberals aren't much better, but until the Greens get their version of Ross Perot or attract the popularity of a Ron Paul (without the craziness of his ideas and followers), the democrats are the only ones right now that can save this country from going to hell in a hand basket (so-to-speak).
(suggestion: read frank's 'one market under god', it is a must read, imo)
Samson is right. Everyone should read "One Market." Seven years after it was first published, this book is still relevant, and it explains how we got to the position we are in.
"What's the Matter with Kansas?" is another Thomas Frank must-read.
Colbert is the man but sometimes I think he goes too far in making a comedic point. Yes he needs to stay in character, I am just afraid that important information is lost in the 'bluster for chuckles' routine. Qualifying my argument is the way the audience appears to respond more to Steven's phony talking points like dogma than to the issue presented,
Hopefully I am wrong though it appears he may be winning over the wrong side of our constitutional crisis.
Cause conservatives do suck at running government - remember by the people meant something at one time.
We're living in a Plutocracy. No wonder we've turned into a Mickey Mouse country.
Great interview. Colbert is brilliant and Frank was his equal. One could learn plenty from that 5 minutes, if they were so inclined.
If you're worth less than $10 million and you vote Republican, you're a masochist, if not simply suicidal.
Well, that's what Vampires do...
Anyone who thinks Government should be run like a business should be fired and thrown off the premises.
He did a shitty job of defending himself against Colbert. Don't do interviews, Thomas.
that interview kinda sucked. i didnt really learn anything. i dont think colbert is very good at being a pretend conservative.
♥♦♣♠☻..Bangkok Bob..☻♥♦♣♠ @ 9:
Bingo. We are fucked.
Nada @ 22:
thanks to bs distribution laws...cant watch that feed if you live outside of canada....
Rassle @ 46:
you watch colbert for educational purposes???
what kind of nit are you???
its a comedy show
wait a sec....you should know that
so since you should, i take it that you are another visitor from our pals at freerep
welcome
eat me
bshock @ 42:
you gotta watch the "why i am a repug in 2008" videos on youtube
frackin hilarious
there is not a dime's worth of difference between democrats and republicans. we all better wake up and take our country back.
jim @ 51:
welcome freeper
we all know you guys got the memo to go out and cast these types of aspersions
but here is the diff
your party is filled with crooks and perverts
Rassle @ 46:
If he actually is trying to be a pretend conservative. His friend, comedian Paul Dinello, says that Colbert isn't particularly political, doesn't really care much about political issues. I do know right-wingers, Republican and Libertarian, who think Colbert is on their side. He may be, to an extent. The problem with getting the book's point across using Colbert's style of humor is that a lot of Americans, Democrat and Republican, now do believe that everything should be run like a business and that government is intrinsically bad and inefficient. When most Americans have bought that Reaganite view of government, they have a hard time telling where Colbert is coming from when he talks like this.
In reality, you have fascism.
Neo Conservative Moron @ 35:
I'd rather get sucked while governing. That way, everybody wins!
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 52:
I'm pretty liberal and my perception of the differences between the parties is this:
Democrats are crooked and horny.
Republicans are crooked, evil, and perverted.
I'll take plain old crooked and horny any time.
Under capitalism there are only two types of humans: predators and prey. Do Americans want their government run with materialism as its guide? If so, there is not much time left. Since 1972 it has been the beginning of the end.
If we can get the working people who vote Republican to realize this, then maybe shit like this won't happen in America.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 52:
wow why so much hostility? chill out. its just my opinion. Overall i didnt find it funny. Its not even witty comedy anymore. I think it gets old after a while..for ME... He jsut says some outlandish stuff like letting the businessmen run the gov't...it gets old!
anywho,
I wonder how much Jon Stewart will go to make fun of liberals when BO and the Democrats are in charge..i think it'll be very awkward for the audience.
And also read "The Shock Doctrine" be Naomi Klein. These guys have stolen our country for their own profit. Huge profit in the last 7 years. Milton Friedman would be proud. Me? Not so much. They all need to be in chains and going to jail. Pelosi? Where are you?
I saw this entire interview and I don't think Thomas Frank "succinctly explained" why conservatism is a failed ideology. I know he only has five minutes with Colbert often interupting, but clearly Colbert stole the moment and basically ate his lunch.
How difficult can it be to summarize the failed policies that have bankrupted the government, such as tax cuts during a time of war, highest deficit and budget debt ever, inflation, gas prices, failed morgages, Katrina emergency fiasco.....etc, etc,....and whenever Colbert tries to make a joke, rather than laughing, you look at him with deep, saddened eyes and say "the destruction of my country and the lives of Americans is no laughing matter."
(To which he'd probably have a good comeback, but oh well)
Thomas Frank was awesome and he and Colbert were almost Nichols and May ..Perhaps a casual viewer does not understand Colbert's pose. Frank held his own handsomely.
Our government IS being run like a business...one with unlimited capital resources (really d-e-e-p pockets). When did Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac go private? I didn't even notice! We'd better start bailing the water out of the boat now!
Joe Tseng @ 61:
Perhaps parody is the most effective way to get the message across. People tend to listen more when they're being entertained, especially because we're barraged from all sides with info 24/7, some of it relevant and, well, the rest...total BS. (cow dung)
P.S. I feel your d-e-e-p despair!
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