McCain Camp's Overplaying of POW Card Called to Account From All Corners
By Bill W. Saturday Aug 23, 2008 12:40pm
Watching this two-minute bio-ad from John McCain's first campaign (1982), "you don't exactly get the impression of a candidate reluctant to discuss his war experience" That's because he never has been. McCain has relied on using his service and sacrifice to his country as a major campaign asset from day one, and repeatedly ever since despite claims to the contrary. Not that there should be anything wrong with that in that context, but, as Steve Benen pointed out:
Four years ago, when John Kerry campaigned in part on his military service, McCain criticized him for it, saying he was “sick and tired of re-fighting the Vietnam War.” McCain even disparaged Kerry personally, saying his emphasis on his military record is “clearly a tactical or strategic move.”
What makes McCain's claim all the more hypocritical is the fact that his campaign has recently been invoking the 'POW card' anytime their candidate is questioned, not just biographically for political benefit as the senator did over and over during pastor Rick Warren's Saddleback Presidential Candidates Forum, but quite literally offering it as an excuse for anything and everything to the point many in the media have begun questioning the tactic:
Whether he's deflecting criticism over his health-care plan or mocking a tribute to the Woodstock music festival, Senator John McCain has a trump card: the Hanoi Hilton. ...
That was followed by Newsweek's Howard Fineman, Politico's Ben Smith, and Time's Ana Marie Cox (h/t Greg Sargent) all calling foul. The Washington Monthly's Steve Benen inferred that McCain is becoming the new 9iu11iani, and that's not all. McCain even caught the ire of Brandon Friedman at VetVoice and then Lt Gen Robert G Gard really took him to task in posts at DailyKos and Huffington Post:
We obviously honor and respect McCain's service and the five-and-a-half years of horror that he went through at the hands of the North Vietnamese; but it's not an excuse for everything. He has already used it to explain away his infidelities in his first marriage. He's used it to defend his healthcare plan. He just the other day used it to deflect accusations of having skirted the rules of the Saddleback forum.
It's time for the Senator to stop cheapening the war experiences of thousands of vets and his fellow POWs, and his own as well, by stretching the boundaries of logic to make his POW status a wild-card rebuttal to all accusations or an answer to all difficult questions.
And in today's NYT, Maureen Dowd hits on all of the above and goes even further by questioning whether what has been McCain's 'get out of gaffe free card' could actually be considered a handicap:
... While McCain’s experience was heroic, did it create a worldview incapable of anticipating the limits to U.S. military power in Iraq? Did he fail to absorb the lessons of Vietnam, so that he is doomed to always want to refight it? Did his captivity inform a search-and-destroy, shoot-first-ask-questions-later, “We are all Georgians,” mentality?
You think?
Take the AOL poll on whether John McCain is overplaying the POW card below.
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MKKKain is such boor.
Maureen hits the nail on the head.
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"... a noun, a verb and pee-oh-dubya!"
Like Biden said " We don't need a good soldier, but a LEADER
Bless his heart, being shot down and being captured doesn't make one a hero. It makes you a victim of circumstance.
Having your head played with for 5 years by communist interrogators probably doesn't do much for your mental stability either.
I'm sorry he had to go through all that, but he needs to find another claim to fame. This one isn't going to carry him through the election.
How about focusing on real issues?
His nickname was the Canary, because he sang either 3 days or 3 hours after mistreatment. After that he made 30 or 40 videos for the Viet Cong propaganda machine.
And a big thank you to Wes Clark for being the first to question this conventional wisdom. Clark was right, that being a fighter pilot and POW does not in itself qualify you for any executive position. He got crucified for saying this but it planted the seed which has now flowered. McCain kept on playing his POW card - and obviously believing his own press coverage in thinking that this actually did trump all criticisms -- and the media finally reached their gag reflex.
questions for McCain…
Question #1 what drugs or psychotropicals were you prescribed to treat PTSD? What effect did they have on your overall health?
Question #2 Since you attempted suicide twice while in captivity, convince the American public that you won’t attempt something like that under duress while in the White House.
Question #3 Since questions about your treatment have re arisen in the press, will you now release those Vietnam records which you have steadfastly refused to do up to now?
Unfortunately these are the usual obsequious narratives to McCain's military service as evidenced by Lt. Gen. Gard stating that "we obviously honor and respect McCain's service". Does Gard respect and honor the fact that McCain was bombing the hell out of the Vietnamese people, none of whom ever attempted to float on their sampans to overthrow the United States? Maureen Dowd chimes in by claiming that "McCain's experience was heroic." No, bombing innocent civilians was not heroic. What was heroic were those who, unlike McCain, had the courage and wisdom to say that were not going to participate in the bombings and killings of innocent Vietnamese when they participated in the GI movement those many years ago. Gard and Dowd could only wish that McCain had displayed true heroism by saying that he was not going to fly in a plane from 30,000 feet and drop bombs on people who never threatened anyone in these United States.
I think the issue of using is POW status as a shield misses the actual point about what it says about McCain. When McCain uses his POW experience as a auto-rebut, its not because he thinks it is a good answer, but because and more tellingly, he has no good answer. The POW response is merely the best he can do other than put forth blatantly ignorant answers or admit he has no answers.
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I thought there was a difference between a fighter pilot and a bomber pilot...
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Erroll @ 9:
Any part of that you'd like to retract for the good of your own credibility?
Screw McCainus! I bet the prick didn't spend more than 10 minutes in the VC box before he purged his guts to his captors (or his daddy had him sprung) just like GWB, draft dodger (not that there's anything wrong with it) in chief, and all the other rich ass pussies would have. I wish Obama & Biden would kick their collective asses all over the continent on this topic, until no one dares to mention it again, and then the water can clear for the real topics- like McCain's insanity and the Republican abuse of the USA, money ( and testicle) sucking techniques. If this isn't the election where the Democrats show some balls and permanently sends the (those?) Republicans to Hell, then you may as well kiss your fucking country goodbye.
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R E M E M B E R:
According to the Bush Administration, Johnny was never McTORTURED!
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So when McSame screws up and gets us in another war or lord help us pushes the button, will he look sheepish and say "oops, well you know I was a POW". Seems to me if all these gaffes and screw ups are a result of his POW stint how can we trust him when real problems emerge?
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The Republican Senator from Arizona running for President of the U.S.A. has a message for Americans...
"NO, you McCANT!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpB9OoOU02M
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tws @ 8:
I think there should be a collection of information McCain has not released (Cindy taxes) and do a nice comparison on how the Bush White House has gone beyond anything in prior memory to keep secrets.
The truth is, McCain's POW-ness should have been attacked from the very beginning. Kerry actually WAS a war hero and the right had no qualms attacking him and turning his true bravery into a liability by lies, falshoods and innuendo. McCain is NOT a true war hero and his POW status ahould have been neutralized a long time ago. It may be too late. It has been positively imbedded in the minds of many Americans.
We should excuse everything he does because he was a POW? No way! Lots of men were POWs in Vietnam and I'm guessing they don't get away with doing whatever they please just because of what happened to them.
Why in the world should he be special or more special than any other man who was taken prisoner? He came home to a comfortable life, probably more than most other POWs did. He turned is back on his family and decided to be a party boy. How many other POWs had that luxury? He married into mega money and became a Senator. Being a POW didn't prevent him from doing all of those things, so he cannot use it as a shield or and excuse today.
Don Webber @ 17:
Great points which should be hammered again and again. Didn't they hound Kerry about his records?
Why in the world should he be special or more special than any other man who was taken prisoner?
He's not. It's a purely Rovian tactic with two purposes:
1] plant a positive, empathetic image in the minds of voters and
2] emasculate the Dems from attacking that image.
It worked.
Wow, using his POW experience to describe his love of the sunsets and sunrises in Arizona. How pathetic! Apparently, you can use the POW card for anything! So in addition to helping you explain your love for America, your need for 7+ houses, your opposition to Woodstock, your inability to remain faithful to your spouse, your opposition to a real healthcare plan, and your disdain for "cones of silence," the POW card can help you explain your devotion to many other things.
"Well, I didn't really appreciate Lucky Charms until after I'd gone without breakfast cereal at the Hanoi Hilton."
"I never truly understood the value of the incandescent bulb until I was compelled to spend half a decade in a dark hole."
and so on
This is a pure and simple case of playing the victim card and he's over playing his hand. He was a victim of a war in which a shit load of Americans died. Whatever else happened to him in Nam, he at least lived to tell about it, not brag about it. There are men all over America and in VA hospitals who have never had a full life due to what happened to them in that stinking war, and McCain has the gall to use his status as some sort of high honor. Nope he was just another victim but not the only one.
pissed off patricia @ 19:
Absolutely, and although most other POWs are reluctant to talk about their ordeal I wish a few would at least comment on McCain's abuses, and uses, of being one to get what he wants.
Hey! I was seriously injured in the line of duty as a firefighter/paramedic! Can I be president next?
Oh - yeah; I was SAVING civilians, not killing them...plus there's that matter of smoking wacky tabacky a few years back to try to ease the pain...no Whitehouse for me!
McCain Campaign & REPUBLICAN CONVENTION: "Forget BIDEN, we're wasting our time with that prick. Paint Barack & Michelle Obama as Mr. & Mrs Evil....John McCain: American War Hero....Died for our sins.
I have to wonder what's going on with his arms. Right now they say he cannot even brush his own hair because of injuries sustained while being tortured while being a POW.
Yet when he came back, he was able to raise his arms to salute, in the above campaign ad he was clearly able to raise his arm higher and wave at the crowd.
What happened since? Arthritis???
Dare I mention.....AGE???
pissed off patricia @ 23:
Good point. That would have been one of the ways to neutralize it.
i for one, as an independent voter, welcome this scrutiny into McCain and his playing of the alleged 'POW card'. the press hasn't been 'pressing' him enough on many issues, including his wartime record. its been 24/7 negative on Obama and his whatever lack of this or that, but really nothing on Sen McCain. he's recently caught up in the polls, mainly because of his relentless Rovian attacks on Obama, so now its perhaps time to turn the scrutiny onto him. the Press after all does have to sell copy and 'inform' readers, so if we follow that recent poll that stated voters knew very little about McCain other than his maverickyness and POW status, then it's high time more of his record and character was revealed by that very sycophantic Press he once called his 'base'. works for me. show this man for what he really is now and lay bare his record. he deserves the scrutiny and if its negative well he survived real torture so then it shouldnt be anything worse.
My husband, also a vet, just made a very good point. McCain brags about how he stayed with his fellow POWs and refused to go free and leave them behind. Very noble of him. Yet, when he got home he felt no compunction about leaving his wife and kids behind as he galloped off to party with the rich chick.
The McCain campaign strategy for the fall is going to rely on his status as a prisoner of war. In 1967, John McCain was shot out of the North Vietnamese sky, crash landed in a lake, taken prisoner, and held in captivity for … 41 years, so far.
Check out this secret photo that was leaked from the Republican Convention site as they prepare for their event. It's proof of their pending strategy.
I don't recall McCain having risen to the defense of Max Cleland, who paid a price at least as great as McCain, and whose patriotism was in turn attacked in calculated fashion by the republican party.
Andy K. Ding Dong The Second: "War is cruelty, and you cannot refine it". Would you agree, Andy? And do you know what famous American wrote that?
McCain’s character had been “tested and forged in ways few can fathom.”
Really? It's a relief to know that only a few of the millions caught up in the Vietnam War were tested and forged by the experience and none so much as St. McCain in the lions den. I don't think one need be a combat veteran to see what a complete crock this John McCain War Hero canticle is. The cemeteries are full of men and women who died more heroic deaths than the life McCain has lived and who never got anything but a metal casket and a flag for the sacrifice, if that. But this old fool thinks he DESERVES to be President of the United States by virtue of little more than having survived being a POW. What complete and utter bullshit.
Hard to imagine what a monumental asshole he must have been before his capture , if he is a much better man for it now.
When I was a kid the Heroes did the shooting down not the other way around as in this case. Sad indeed.
Shorter MSM:
Wes Clark was wrong before he was right.
Notice closely how just about every talking head on tv repeatedly says the voters don't know Obama yet or don't know "enough" about him yet. They are leaving the impression that if the voters think they know Obama, there is something else about him they don't know. They are leaving people with the impression that there is something scary or different or disturbing about Obama they need to know before they vote for him.
As for McCain the public knows everything they need to know about him, he's pitiful and honorable because he was a POW. They'll just leave it at that.
the pow/military i.d. is used to disarm the opponent.
almost everytime someone speaks/critiques mccain they
preface the comments 'i respect his service' it's a tough deal. this is what clark tried to do. people have to look beyond his military service of 40 yrs. ago. unfortunately
it's an easier brand for people to relate to and people want easy. if people don't look beyong the cover of the book they're not going to find out the truth. mccain will
continue the NEOCON agenda.
USS Forrestal fire? That was forty years ago too. Seems to be off limits somehow.
pissed off patricia @ 30:
Nobility had nothing to do with it. He knows his career would have been in the shitter if he took the early release. There was no choice involved. And he wanted his just rewards for making such an honorable "decision".
Do you think we would ever hear: "My friends I have instructed my campaign to stop referencing my war experiences and I will not accept any adulation because of my POW status. I have been thinking lately that thousands of Americans have paid dearly, and many more dearly than me, during war time. Moreover I applaud current efforts at bringing troops home asap so others won't have to suffer the horrors of war." John McCain
constituent @ 37:
I just want to say, I DON'T respect his service. And I'm sick of people thanking vets for their service in phony hushed tones, as if [vets] were some kind of super humans.
McCain's 'service' was bullshit from beginning to end. And he's a murderer in the way he served, from the Forrestal 'wet start' to bombing civilians from above. I won't even comment on the POW stint, because I don't know WHAT to believe about that.
Che's Lounge @ 39:
Nothing could beat the rewards he got when he made his decision to leave his wife and kids behind....he got to marry a woman worth hundreds of millions of dollars and have more homes than he can count. Now he wants us to honor the fact that he wouldn't leave his fellow POWs behind and forget everything that happened after that.
lj @ 40:
I could almost hear his voice as I read your comment, but that's as close as we'll ever come to actually hearing his voice saying those words. Now that would be true nobility.
Let us remember that if being a war hero was all it takes, Randy "Duke" Cunningham would be running for president, not doing time in a federal prison. Military service can tell us a person loves their country and has courage. There are many ways to show these same qualities in service of the American people. Barack shows courage and dedication to this country just by running for president knowing there are crazy nut jobs out there who are capable of trying/doing anything to stop him. Having lived through the horror of the Kennedy and King assasinations I applaud Barack and Michelle's courage and sacrifice to this country as well as John McCain's. Let them debate and advocate what they think are the best policies for America's future with both assuming the other equally loves their country and possesses the courage to put their necks on the line. I hope John McCain drops the daily noun+verb+Hanoi Hilton tactic and that Barack will nail immediately anyone who tries to swiftboat McCain's war record from the democratic party like the GOP did Kerry's. There are plenty of serious issues they can slam each other hard about and these are issues that are important right now and for the next 4-8 years. I have studied the issues and have decided to support Obama. Those who haven't made up their minds deserve an honest, detailed discussion of what the candidates plan to do from here on out.
lj @ 40:
I just looked at the Wikipedia entry on the Keating Five scandal. What I found amusing was in the paragraph about the April 2, 1987 meeting the sentence;
DeConcini started the meeting with a mention of "our friend at Lincoln.”
Now we know where he gets it.
Andy K Jong Il @ 12:
Are you actually attempting to claim that the North Vietnamese, as I also had written, were going to float over on their sampans so they could burn down the White House? Perhaps you are under the mistaken notion that McCain was keeping the skies of Arizona safe from the non existent North Vietnamese air force when, in point of fact, the United States illegally invaded Vietnam under the most species of reasons. I can recommend a number of books to you that can shed more light upon this subject. You seem to be dong an excellent job of defending McCain's militarism, which is an argument that one would expect a neoconservative and a super patriot to make. You also seem to be quite eager to rush to the defense of McCain's bombing activities against those who never wished to harm anyone in this country without once mentioning those who had the wisdom in recognizing the illegality and immorality of that war by refusing those orders that they were given by the military. Again, as you seem to be ignorant on this topic [by ignorant, I am not referring to what so many Americans do and that is equating ignorance to stupidity but rather ignorance in its rightful definition, which is not being aware of facets regarding a particular topic] I would be most happy to provide sources for you to peruse.
That film settles it. Let's all vote for 1982 McCain! (off stage voice mutters in my ear) What's that? It's 2008 you say ...oh 2008 McCain is running?
Oh well never mind.
Long Tooth @ 32:
Crazy Billy Sherman, iirc, a competent strategic thinker, but a horrible tactician.
Had Lincoln's cabinet had the balls to promote Virginian George Henry Thomas over both Sherman and Grant, the war, imo, would have ended more quickly, and the south wouldn't have been left in ruins...or at least the south would have had enough left to rebuild its economy much more quickly. IMO.
But that's history. Can't change it.
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Erroll @ 46:
No, I'm refering to the facts as you presented them in that specific sentence. A-4 Skyhawks were low level bombers. Tree-top level for bombing, iirc, which makes those missions about as indiscriminate as rocket attacks- which the NVA/Viet Cong used extensively throughout the war.
I'm not trying to justify that war in any way, but once they were commited, both sides used whatever (well, almost) weapons and tactics at their disposal. If you want to take the pacifist tack, that's fine by me, but there were two sides engaged, Erroll, and both were using weapons that might- and did- kill civilians.
Call it nitpicking, but if you can't get the little things right, I tend to question the rest of what you're saying. One of those 9/11 con theory films had a B-52 slamming into the Empire State Building in 1946. When I saw that, I knew I was watching the work of someone who didn't think their shit out. You, on the other hand, have a body of work that I'm familiar with
It's not that he's using the POW story for political gain, it's that he keeps creating or changing the details of the story as needed for political gain:
1. Never told anyone about that cross in the dirt until he needed something to connect him to the evangelical voting block.
2. In his book he says he told his interrogators the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line when asked who was in his navy squadron, but when doing a radio interview while campaigning in Pittsburgh earlier this year his squadron mates become the Pittsburgh Steelers defensive line.
That 2nd one dovetails with his "my taste in music stopped evolving after i was shot down" (that's why my favorite song was one recorded years after my return from Vietnam?!?) like so: in the late 1960s the Green Bay Packers were the most widely known professional football team, most All-American guys would probably be able to name off most of their starting players at the time. The Pittsburgh Steelers on the other hand were on the lowest level of mostly unknown AFL during the 1960s, but in the mid '70s became the most dominate team in the now consolidated NFL thanks in large part to their famous "Steel Curtain" defense.
While this could just be some good old fashion "When in Pittsburgh say whatever you can to get the Pittsburgh vote" i think you put that together with the not knowing how many houses he has, the ABBA think, Czechoslovakia & countless other gaffes & you have a guy that should be in a nursing home not running for president.
Sent too quickly. Let's finish the last thought:
You, on the other hand, have a body of work that I’m familiar with, and I get what you're saying, but if someone who doesn't recognize you reads,"...fly in a plane from 30,000 feet and drop bombs ...", and knows the difference between an A-4 and a B-52, you might just lose any chance of convincing them of anything.
Just lay it on the line.
A 43 year old full grown man betrayed is crippled wife and three school age children to screw around with a 25 year old adultress.
This is what the "Family Values" party is hoping to have as President and First Lady.
End of Story.
Jobless in California @ 27:
..Reminds me of Steve Martin and the wheel chair in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. They probably just detached the puppet springs from McSame's arms so we'll feel sorry for him.
If that were John Kerry limping off that plane the swiftboaters would be wearing purple band aids saying he was faking it.
What an insult McCain is giving to other POW's who spent years in captivity, several longer than he did. For someone who didn't want to run on this experience, we hear about it every day.....from him. He deseerves credit for his service but so do thousands of others...those who have lost life and limbs in Korea, Vietnam and particularly in Iraq. I'm sure there are those wh owere tortured as badly as well.
But then I guess they didn't have fathers and grandfathers who were admirals.
I have also heard, though cannot verify, that the cross in the sand story actually happened to someone else. Did McCain add that to his story to appease the far right?
This is not the John McCain we thought he once was. He seems to be nothing more than a run-of-the-mill politician whose ambition for the presidency knows no bounds. And he dares to criticize his opponent for ambition!!!!
Something that I have been puzzled about for some time is the story that when the VC captors found out that John McCain was the son of Admiral McCain the VC wanted to release him, but John McCain insisted that he would not want to be released and chose to remain a POW.....???
If this were indeed true, it would seem that the VC were not at all in control of their own POWs.....???
Could his captors not be in control of a prisoners release?
Drinking game: During Giuliani's convention speech, every time he mentions 9/11, you drink. Every time he mentions POW, you drink. Every time he mentions both in the same sentence, you chug. Whoever is conscious at the end of the speech is the loser.
The thing that keeps popping into my head when I hear about the “Cross in the Dirt” story is that the dominant religion in North Vietnam isn’t Christian. While the story may be true I don’t think it passes the smell test.
Andy at #48
I have absolutely no idea what flying a B-52 plane into the Empire State building in 1946 has to do with McCain bombing the Vietnamese people. You claim that you are not attempting to justify "that war". a war that, unfortunately, I was a part of, but yet you are going to a great deal of trouble in trying to rationalize what McCain did while he was in the navy. You are bizarrely trying to justify McCain's behavior [which, as I earlier said, one would expect from a neoconservative and/or a super patriot] while totally ignoring the fact that McCain volunteered to participate in what was known back then as Operation "Rolling Thunder", which meant that before McCain's plane was shot down, he had spent about 20 hours in combat in the skies over Vietnam, dropping high explosives on the towns and people below during short flights from an aircraft carrier which was parked in the South China Sea.
By volunteering and participating in "Rolling Thunder", McCain joined other U.S. warplanes which dropped close to eight million tons of explosives-four times the bombs dropped in all of World War II-on a country roughly the size of New Mexico. The consequences of this huge American air assault ended up devastating Vietnam's cities and destroyed it industrial, transportation and communications infrastructure.
Before the war was over, some five million Vietnamese were killed, many of them victims of U.S. aerial bombardment, which John McCain contributed. It also should be pointed out that the "war hero" McCain also appeared on 60 Minutes in 1997 and proclaimed "I am a war criminal. I bombed innocent women and children."
I submit that you can engage in as much historical revisionism as you wish but the facts and McCain's involvement in aerial attacks against the Vietnamese people, which are a matter of public record, say otherwise.
If you cannot remember how many homes you own, you are UNFIT TO SERVE.
Retire John, just retire.
McCain says torture is an effective tool for interrogation. In other words, he meant every word he said in those propaganda films he starred in for Viet Charley. Don't worry, you will just love The People's Republic of America, comrades.
dave @ 51:
mccain is scum
he shoulda been thrown in jail for his role in the keating 5 scandal.....
thank god most of america knows this, and he doesn't have a chance in hell of winning the election......(that's not to say he and his corrupt buddies can't find a way to steal it, but i doubt it)'
Here's another interesting piece to add some more context to all this:
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,164859_1,00.html
Seems like not all of McCains POW buddies were quite as enamored with his shenanigans at the Naval Academy as he was.
Andy K Jong Il @ 48:
Please, please, McCain, use it one more time...then it's open season on your 'heroic etc etc service'.
Next time he uses "I was a POW" the response should be "How can a POW vote to sanction torture, sir? One can only assume you will not ban torture because you feel it works. Did it work on you?"
A true hero's reputation is such that he doesn't have to announce it every single time he gets the chance.
I have known POWs, you get very little talk from them about their time as captives because they were treated in a fashion that John McCain wasn't because of his cooperation.
I agree with the others. It's his go-to answer when he doesn't have an answer.
When McCain was perceived to be the elder statesman above the fray, his war record was considered out of bounds (see Wesley Clark comments a while back). But now that McCain has spent the last month slinging poo, he has opened up a re-examination of his personal story, and everything is on the (kitchen) table(s). It's called "blowback," a concept that the GOP ought to be familiar with from the war.
...or as Coot McCain would say"We are All Prisoners of War in GWOT" McCain?...Bush only Older!
"Every hero becomes a bore at last."
Ralph Waldo Emerson
Andy K Jong Il @ 12:
For the sake of YOUR credibility, I'd ask you to supply us with details about how the Vietnamese were going to conquer America. Be specific now.
Last time I've seen POW referenced so much:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wd_nhICGCNs&feature=related
What? McCain was a P.O.W.? Who knew?
"video pulled because of corruption."
Yes, but does the video still work? ;)
-- Rob
McPOW and his hordes are going to run the "maveric" and POW cards into the ground. It will be a laughable cliche before they are done. What puzzles me is the brazen audacity of the GOP operatives. They absolutely impugned the and questioned the records of decorated war heroes like John Kerry and Max Cleland with abandon, to the extent that it cost these men elections that they should have won quite easily. They played the same pungent strategy with Al Gore, by making a caricature of his stellar insights and an equally admirable record - except of course, if you are reTHUGlican. Now, again, they have set their sights on Obama, a man who pulled himself up in life by his bootstraps, a super-intelligent law professor no less, versus a privileged, rich, semi-senile grampa who graduated at the very bottom of his military academy class. These scenes has all the markings of a very bad rerun.
We can only hope that this time around, the walking dead among us will finally wake up from their petrified trance, and make the right decision for the continuation of the democracy that had withstood over 200 years of trials, instead of doing everything to see it decimated for blind allegiance to some stupid party that cares nothing about them or their families. Amazing.
Yes, John McCain you were a POW back then, many moons ago, but today your not, today you are a person out of touch with America and what is needed to slow the steady decline of our nation.
Awe, come on! Cut the guy a break! What else does he have to offer the American public? Without his Pow Status, he is an empty gong, a bell without a clapper. A zero! Nadda! Nothing! Glass is empty!
Over 50,000 didn't get to be POW's. They got killed.
Hope John Sidney McMansion picks another wife cheater, Rudy, for his Veep.
Their campaign slogan can be: POW! 9-11! POW! 9-11!
Diana @ 70:
Stumble on a misunderstanding of U.S. technological weaponery, and Andy will pounce. But he can't defend why that war was fought, and all its implications, because it's too damn hard.
McWar seems to reveal that his POW experience is a touch stone to everything else in his life. I don't want that kind of mindset running my country. Let alone his willingness to call on armed conflict as the solution to so many of or foreign policy challenges. McWar indeed.
He's even used the POW card to explain his love for ABBA:
“I’ve got to say that a lot of my taste in music stopped about the time I impacted a surface-to-air missile with my own airplane and never caught up again.”
Except that ABBA apparently began recording five years after he was shot down.
McC*nt is a hero? Hero my ass. Finished at the bottom of his class. Smashed three planes. Was permanently injured—not by torture—but by not knowing how to properly eject himself from the cockpit. Not sure that douchebag was able to finish any of his missions in Vietnam.
Of course, since he's a Republican, his POW status is sacred.
If he were a Dem, they'd be calling him a worthless fuckup and passing out band-aids.
Diana @ 70:
Diana, tell me what you know about A-4 Skyhawks, please.
I didn't claim the whole thing was wrong, simply one part(30,000 feet) that is easily discredited.
As for the part that you bring up, I don't see how it could have happened, either. But you, Erroll and I have the advantage of hindsight that wasn't there in the 1960's. Much, if not most of this country saw a creeping menace sweeping the world. Americans didn't see this, in 1963, as a war of Vietnamese independence, but the USSR imposing their system on yet another country, bringing the Vietnamese into the Soviet fold. And after the post WWII events in Poland, East Germany, Hugary, Czechoslovakia, Greece, China, and North Korea, it's easy to see how Americans might have seen Vietnam Communists as part of the threat.
euthyfro @ 49:
I resent the implication that you have to have been tortured to like ABBA.
Long Tooth @ 63:
So if his experiences the Hanoi Hilton have affected his behavior (cheating on his wife, the Keating Five scandal, etc) , I'm supposed to trust him with his finger on The Button of Nuclear Conflagration?
Whether or not McCain was a war criminal for bombing civilians or a war hero for getting shot down, he betrayed his fellow service members by cooperating with his captors in return for favorable treatment...the CANARY was a traitor! But the chicken hawks wouldn't know a traitor from a hero since they betray everything that has made our country great.
McCain used the POW line in a debate in his first election. His father-in-law purchased a house so McCain could establish residence in the district. Questions kept coming up.
The Arizona Republic ran a series in 2007 about McCain's early years.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-cha...
Here's what they said:
It worked so he keeps using it. It isn't just to deflect criticism but it is also to intimidate - to make people reluctant to raise any questions about anything about McCain.
But... but I was a POW!
John McCain - unexposed as the ultimate flip flopper.
As a “straight talk express” supporter in 2000 I am most disappointed with the tenor of McCains’s political ads,
In addition, any one that has been paying attention can see how he has re-invented himself.
Check this out: http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2008/08/20/watchdogs-make-it-hard...
But alas most people have not been paying attention and shame on the media for not bringing these facts to the public’s attention.
I am surprised that CNN has succumbed to the same influences as the “mainstream media” and has confused the word “Liberal” with the word “objective” and it is obvious that cooperate influence controls content.
John has always been confident and that appeals to voters, but now he is confident for the wrong reasons. From my perspective his current campaign contradicts most of the principles he once stood for, and his remaining positions will only result in the status quo.
John McCain is still a POW. He was a prisoner of war then and a Piece of Work now.
He failed to execute the proper evasive maneuvers. He fucked up and got caught. What is so heroic about that?
Andy K Jong Il @ 12:
?????
I smear McPOW all over YouTube, ad nauseum, and very obviously, hoping a few people might realize-- it gets very tired as an excuse for everything. Every sentence, in my comment, has POW worked into at least 3 times.
... and he can't even figure out which kitchen table to use!
McCain was a low level bomber. He didn't drop bombs from 30,000ft Erroll. A small surface to air missile wouldn't get up that high.
That being said, This is a minor point. The larger more important point is he collaborated with the enemy. He capitulated and signed anti American Propaganda . There is no honor in that.period. And since the GOP want to make honor an issue. This fact should be used to it's fullest extent.
Ohhh, man. I can hear the howling already. but fuckum, they set the rules, so lets play by them.
And I have to agree with misskitty up there. Enough of thanking vets for their service, that just another GOP ploy to stir up divisiveness.
can we expect a president McCain to use the same old line to excuse himself each time he does something to further the damage wrought by the bush administration?
I can hear it already, "sure I was responsible for driving the final nail in the coffin of American democracy, but hey, give me a break, I was a POW for 5 1/2 years!!".
When I see the pictures of McCain being released the year before my youngest daughter, a lovely 34 year-old woman was born, I can't help but think that there are a lot of younger voters, like all my kids, who will think this guy is absolutely ancient when they reflect upon this. Also, playing the POW card daily reminds them that he fought in a war that was settled long before they were even here on earth. Not the best campaign strategy, if you ask me.
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Do we realy want a messed up pow veit running this country?
WHO KNOW WHAT DEEP PSYCOLOGICAL PROBLEMS THIS MAN HAS.
Of course anyone who has participated in this type of killing and degrigation
would be messed up.
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Whats so BRace about McCain dropping bombs on innocent civilians
he is too old, and too outdated
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What John McCain went through as a prisoner of war will never be out of date or irrelevant. It is abiding evidence of the buoyancy of the human spirit and the resiliency of spiritual justice. Those who are eager to silence the story of McCain's torture, suffering, and resolve to remain with his fellow prisoners, are bending only to the lowest form of political expediency.
Do you realy think veitnam had anything to do with American freedom?
I want a president who is focused on peace not war.
[Deleted. No McPOW Points for you, pal-Sitemonitor]
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[Deleted. No McPoints for you Tim-Sitemonitor]
q @ 100:
Trittydi @ 2:
Maureen Dowd is a liberal...[Deleted. I'd rather be Maureen Dowd than you-Sitemonitor]
Who the hell would vote for McCain? Me! And that's all I care about...my vote.
How many of you say-sowers have ever walked in McClain shoes in a Vietnam prison camp for so many years?
How many of you volunteered to join the military during the Vietnam war?
How many of you crossed the Canadian border to keep from serving in the military? Shame on you if you did!!!
I served in the Korean War. I did not go to Canada to hide.
John McCain represents four more years of an eight year stint which has nearly sunk this country. Under George Bush's watch, the United States is perceived, and rightfully so, as liars, bigots, bullies, and hypocrites. The sad part to this scenario, is that, in spite of the fact that our own citizens are going hungry, lack proper medical care and educational opportunities, we criticize and attack other countries, for allowing the same type of leadership. McCain is clearly 'over the hill,' and I cannot believe that he is even a candidate for president. This country will not survive four more years of this kind of leadership. Lies and ineptitude, and corruption have plagued our country long enough.
So whats good about having a president thats been abused, participated in the world most unpopular war
and plans to continue the legacy of Bush which has given us our wost economical position since the depression?
Senator John Mccain's military experience doesn't qualify that he should run our country. why does he get a pass to criticize John Kerry for speaking about his military experience and opinions, yet mainstream media allows him to speak about his without much criticizing? Perhaps he continues to hold a severe grudge against being captive and a victim of a war lost in Vietnam. Or, his selfishness will put more Americans in harms way because some believe "WE MUST FIGHT UNTIL WE WIN!" I thought he and President Bush already declared this war "WON" 5 plus years ago! He possesses a character of ill-regard for our American soldiers and for the lives of Iraqi and Afghanistanian citizens. With all of the rambling he spews with the aid of mainstream media glorifying his positions as rule supreme, we must carefully consider the direction he wants to take this country. Consider that if he is elected how many young Americans might face a draft, how many more American lives will be lost, and how much more dangerous the world will be because of arrogance and haughtiness. Consider that some of these boys and girls may be your sons and daughters.
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[Deleted. Anonymous posters should identify themselves with the same moniker, so readers know their comments are coming from a single individual. If they don’t, they are subject to a banning-Sitemonitor]
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[Deleted. Off topic. The topic is "Does McCain play the POW card too much?" Thank you. Sitemonitor]
Hold on now....John McCain is kind of cute.....he's got my vote!
I want the guy who was smart enough not to get shot down leading me.
McCain is still a way better choice then Obama/Biden
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John McCain is hastening the fall of America. He's a dangerous individual who is drunk off of stupidity and I dread the day that he will be allowed to hold any position of power in this country. And for all you who support the wars, real support is when "YOU" can serve, regardless of age, sex or position. Let's not pay lip service, for we have many many lip servants in our coutry would probably run and live their family members when their lives are on the line.
If you have served your probably just as messed up as Mcain and the rest of the war mongers.
Not to mention just plain unamerican as you don't want people with veiws other than yours to
participate in a open forum.
[Deleted. Anonymous posters should identify themselves with the same moniker, so readers know their comments are coming from a single individual. If they don’t, they are subject to a banning-Sitemonitor]
dave @ 106:
@ dave (#106): So what you are saying is that we should not bash McCain because he was a POW, right? That is just what this article is pointing out - POW card being overplayed.
:-)
It is easy to disparage servicemen long after a battle. How many would step up now to criticize the vets returning from Iraq. Never forget if you did NOT serve those who did!
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I'm glad this is starting to get main stream attention. It was clear watching CNN's McCain special that he is not the maverick and good guy he tries to play up - rather he is a politician who uses his POW status as a defensive and offensive weapon.
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Eduardo Enriquez @ 123:
McCain defended our freedom? Right, I remember now that those Vietnamese had nuclear missiles pointed at us from Cuba. Just like Saddam Hussein was threatening our freedom, right?
:-)
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As a person who lived through the Vietnam era, it seems illogical to me that people don't realize that there were a lot of hero's in Vietnam. Many of whom did not return to their loved ones. Eisenhower, JFK were also hero's, but they did not seem to have the need to constantly remind us.
He wants to cut Vet benefits. He just lost my vote.
It's like Joe Biden's comment about Rudy Giuliani. When John McCain talks about his credentials to be Commander in Chief, all we get is a noun, a verb, and "I was a POW and lived in a !@#$ hole for 5 1/2 years."
Oh, and by the way, I'm a retired Army officer.
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Anyone who participates in the killing of others deserves criticism.
Remember the words of Christ.
These people serve the interest of corperate America not me.
But how easy is it to make this a moral issue rather than looking at the facts and what is truely
best for America and the global community.
miss_kitty @ 41:
Carol @ 4:
[Deleted. No McPoints for you, Dog-Sitemonitor]
John McAncient
Great qualifications for President; a drunken screwup at the Naval Academy who graduated at the bottom of his class after being suspended 3 times and rescued by daddy the admiral, a pilot flying off course from where he was supposed to be and got shot down; a compassionate and loving husband who ditched his first wife after she was disfigured in a car accident; a political whore who sold his help to Charles Keating and robbed not only depositors but taxpayers who bailed out the failed banks and S&L's, a man who will say anything and take any position to get elected, a man who doesn't even get along with his most of his own party, a thoroughly slimy man in my opinion. I can only hope that in the closing weeks, he finally meets with the defeat that his hubris demands. Like some ancient Greek play.
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[Deleted. Do not post in ALL CAPS-Sitemonitor]
[Deleted. The topic is "Does McCain play the POW card too much?" Thank you. Sitemonitor]
According to Michelle Obama..."Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism. That you put down your divisions. That you come out of your isolation, that you move out of your comfort zones. That you push yourselves to be better. And that you engage. Barack will never allow you to go back to your lives as usual, uninvolved, uninformed."
That's what you want in the White House?
Enough! [Deleted-Sitemonitor] Let's find out what they both plan on doing... then vote!
[Deleted. And No McPOW points for you either, warmonger-Sitemonitor]
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