John Kerry: Palin Choice Proves McCain's a "Prisoner of the Right Wing"
By Bill W. Sunday Aug 31, 2008 8:45am
"... not a maverick."
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STEPHANOPOULOS: ... Howard Wolfson, Senator Clinton's former communications director, said that this pick might just work to draw women to the Republican ticket. Are you worried about that?
KERRY: Well, with all due respect to Howard, you know, I have much more respect for the Clinton supporters than that sort of quick- blush take with -- I mean, how stupid do they think the Clinton supporters are, for Heaven sakes?
Do they think Clinton supporters supported Hillary only because she was a woman. For Heaven sakes, they supported Hillary because of all the things she's fought for, because she fights for health care, which John McCain doesn't support; she fights for children and children's health care, which John McCain voted against; she fights for a windfall profits tax on the oil company, which John McCain opposes.
I mean, for Heaven sakes, the people who supported Hillary Clinton are not going to be seduced just because John McCain has picked a woman. They're going to look at what she supports.
The fact that she doesn't even support the notion that climate change is manmade -- she's back there with the Flat Earth Caucus. And I don't see how those women are going to be fooled into believing -- I think it's almost insulting to the Hillary supporters that they believe they would support somebody who is against almost everything that they believe in.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK.
KERRY: What John McCain has proven with this choice -- this is very important, George. John McCain wanted to choose Tom Ridge. He wanted to choose Joe Lieberman. He wanted to choose another candidate, but you know what? Rush Limbaugh and the right wing vetoed it.
And John McCain was forced to come back and pick a sort of Cheney-esque social conservative who's going to satisfy the base. What John McCain has proven with this choice is that John McCain is the prisoner of the right wing, not a maverick.
I like it. ...
I do too. Kerry keeps swinging for the fences like that and someone's going to want to test him for steroids.
Digby also shares some good advice, as always, on what our response to Palin might ought to be. While I tend to agree, that might be a tall order, as this well just keeps getting deeper. Your thoughts?
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Two mavericks on one ticket. David Broder is ecstatic.
Helpfully, he points out that McCain is the only candidate who could have made such a choice (Palin). He doesn't explain why anyone else would want to.
He also clearly thinks her maverickliciousishness is much more important than her resume.
As the public discourse continues to degenerate, David Broder is right there at the forefront writing one stupid column after another.
A random observation, based on Digby's comments: Now that we've got McCain calling Palin his 'soulmate', shouldn't somebody put that in a commercial juxtaposed with Bush's comments about looking into Putin's soul? Seems like a great way to tie McCain to Bush, and in particular one of Bush's biggest misreads.
Kerry seems to be having a lot more fun this time around. It must be nice to get so much less scrutiny and be able to fire away like that.
(it would have been nicer to be president of course, but that's history now)
Right, Senator Kerry. And John Edwards was your first choice too.
Uhh- huhh, yeah.
Didn't you want John McCain?
Keep swingin'.
My thought is ultimately each of us has to take responsibility for our life. Kerry's not going to do it, McCains not going to do it, the Sun and Moons not going to do it, Gods not going to do it.
You got to do it.
The entire Democratic team should follow Kerry's lead on this.
The Dems must make it about McCain:
1) His judgement
2) His lack of vision
3) His willingness to select someone never vetted on a national stage
Folks - this is the level of experience that will fill his Cabinet! Can you say: Head of FEMA and Katrina?
She could be the unknown TRUE Messiah ... McCain met her once and selected her. But she might not...
oncall @ 6:
There's alot of things thing Dems should have and could have done this past 8 years.
L.A. Confidential @ 8:
Not quite awake. Sorry about the Dubbyism like comment..
L.A. Confidential @ 9:
Bad. I'm starting to blurt like Dubbya.
Beam me up Scotty.
Skull & Bones!
gg @ 2:
Good idea. Throw in a little Palin, Alaska proximity to Russia, oil pipelines and it should fly.
Nobody believes Kerry - he's a flip flopper.
L.A. Confidential @ 10:
No problem. All I am saying is that Kerry stayed on message and made his points about McCain and how they related to Palin. The Dems should not get mired in the mud about troopers, motherhood, etc. Make this choice all about McCain - not her. McCain folded for the right wing on this one and showed absolutely horrible judgement. As long as that is the official Democratic message, all the other crap will hopefully become white noise.
Swinging for the fences... A bit late seeing as how we've suffered because he played small-ball in 2004...
dennis @ 4:
No chance that he wanted Senator McCain and not Candidate McCain is there? McSame has drunk the Rovian Cool Aid and is gone forever!
I actually remember liking Senator McCain once...but never again. Sorry for all of us.
You know, I think that's a brilliant line. The McCain camp has been trying to drum up sympathy for McCain with all this POW imagery, and this angle shoves it right in their faces. It co-opts McCain's carefully promoted image and turns it against him.
So what is wrong with picking a candidate who rejects science? What has science ever done for us? It is religion that has produced our advanced society. Without cassocks, incense, and communion wafers we might as well still be dwelling in caves.
Moses @ 15:
That is history and we all know how badly it hurts. The fact is that when that interview and Kerry's comments are taken at face value, he ripped McCain and Palin to shreds. There is no getting past it. Kerry's interview was pitch perfect. The whole Democrat team can learn from his example. I am sure that there are others here who are criticizing Kerry for one reason or another....... they always will, and they will miss the points as he made them, because they can't get past their anger about 2004. Well, now is the time to get over it. We have a new game in town and we want to win.
Soul mate...Looking into Putin's soul.....proximity to Russia......it has to follow that Palin is a Russian mole getting ready to infiltrate the very recesses of the White House. Well anything is possible. I've read for myself on the internets that Obama is a secret Muslim.
lj @ 16:
I've read this standard liberal refrain a thousand and one times, lj, but thanks for the reply nonetheless. How anyone can reasonably consider credible John Kerry's critique on another man's thought processes concerning his choice for a running mate is beyond my descriptive abilities.
Simply mind-boggling.
She is his soulmate. After all she loves using her AG to change disclosure laws and cover-up for official abuse of power just like Bush does, and we all know McCain <3 Bush.
http://www.andrewhalcro.com/palin_circles_the_wagons_transparency_a_casu...
Catim @ 17:
This guy was a brilliant prosecuting attorney at one time. Somehow the MSM is able to convince the American buffoonery that lawyers are not qualified to write legislation.
L.A. Confidential @ 5:
the art of vacuousness.
Sarah's Miracle Baby @ 18:
I can't tell if that is a snark or just an asinine comment. Somebody help me.
Depending on how the MSM handle it (I'm not hopeful), this, i.e., Troopergate, could sink her candidacy. At this point that's the best case scenario. However, from what I read of the timing of the investigation, I'm not sure it's conclusions will come in time to get Palin off the ticket. I imagine Presumptive President McPOW will work hard to interfere with the investigation, while simultaneously commanding the United States of America in its battle against hurricanes.
Palin's use of her office to pressure Monegan to fire her ex-brother-in-law should disqualify her from running if the investigation confirms what appears to be the case -- although I realize it will further endear her to the Right Wing base. But the story about her child is one the Democrats should stay away from. I saw that there's plenty of discussion over at dKos (predictable) about it, but don't forget that both Markos and Limbaugh had the same game plan during the primaries -- disrupt the other party's election(s). It's true that LImbaugh's plan was more extensive than the Markos plan to screw with the Republicans in Michigan, but it was still a childish idea that is disruptive to free and fair elections.
biff @ 20:
(Great Ted Stevens reference)
Hey... if Julia Child was a spy, certainly Palin could be!
The choice of putting Governor Palin on the Republican ticket was not made by Senator McCain. The choice was made by James Dobson. Governor Palin is Mr. Dobson's price for his support of Senator McCain. So, if the choice is being made by a theocratic fascist as his price for support, what does that say about Senator McCain?
oncall @ 25:
Snark...
Noah @ 13:
They don't have to believe Kerry. They can see this woman's qualifications, or lack therof. My state representative, a nice Republican woman with years of experience in the state capitol, would have been a better choice.
Noah @ 13:
That would mean no one likes McShame and his 63 flip flops, right? I really don't think you want to compare flip flop records when it comes to McShame.
Catim @ 17:
and don't forget christians are cannibals
they eat jesus regularly for redemption of
their sins.
Oh my, if I was a Hillary supporter I'd be agreeing with every word John Kerry said. Yeah....it didn't make a lot of sense but John McCain was never very good and standing up and making the big decisions. He can't win. He can't. If I was Pawlenty or Ridge or Rommny I'd quit the campaign and I'd quietly go into the booth and vote my conscience. But they're party people too.
So you have a guy who lets the party pick a woman who tried to have her brother-in-law fired as a state trooper and who believe dinosaurs and Adam and Eve Co-existed, who has PTA experience, who says it was little old me who stopped the bridge to nowhere when in fact she fought for it. This is the same man who met this pick only once. Compare that to Obama.
dadams @ 32:
BTW The link to the Alaska Daily News article that Josh Marshall incorrectly posted is now at:
http://www.adn.com/politics/story/510080.html
Interesting read... It is the REAL Troopergate Story. It isn't about her bro-in-law... it's "Attorney-General Gate II: The Sequel."
Sarah's Miracle Baby @ 18:
and don't forget christians are cannibals
they eat jesus regularly for redemption of
their sins.
dennis @ 21:
My sincere apology I hate to see anyone's mind boggled! Seek help soon.
Here's a scenario for you. You have a life-threatening heart ailment. You select a surgeon based on his reputation for getting the job done. He walks in to do your operation. With him is a nice looking woman. Before they put you under, he introduces her as a fellow doctor who just graduated from med school and would really like to be a heart surgeon. Should anything happen to him while he is operating, she'll be there to take over your surgery.
And that's what Dr. McCain just said to us, his patients. And don't you feel secure?
Here is another situation where a candidate could become a prisoner of the right wing. Say that candidate used his or her political influence to alter a birth certificate in order to change the names of the father and mother of a child. This was done to save the family embarrassment. Now, some months later, that candidate is offered a chance at big time politics. The only catch is that the candidate must now do the bidding of the right wing faction in order to keep the earlier crime concealed. Interesting scenario, that.
biff @ 20:
what happened to the cinnamon buns on the sides
of her head?
Well, you see, if there's no such thing as man-made global warming, then there's a legitimate chance that the land bridge across the Bering Strait might be uncovered ... and then Russia could just walk a few miles and roll enough troops and tanks in to take over the U.S.! Really! My boys were playing Risk, and that's how one of them won!
Because We All Know that once you take Alaska, you've conquered the United States.
Hit 'em hard and keep on hitting. Inexperienced, clueless, corrupt.
How about this scenario:
Senator McCain "chose" Governor Palin in order to placate the theocratic fascists in the Republican Party, but on Wednesday, a new name will pop up from the McCain campaign that will force the delegates to choose either or. That name? Senator Joe Liebermann.
Wacky, I know, but so was picking Governor Palin.
Folks, calm down. Obama has gotten this far with his cool, he's not about to fall apart due to Palin being put on the ticket. I still say after all the smoke clears Palin will neither be a plus or a minus for McCain and the race will go down to the wire with Obama winning it by a nose.
Check out mudflats.com, an Alaskan political blog. They linked to a story (on Daily Kos), that states Palin is a former member of the Alaskan Independent Party. They were founded by a Mr. Vogel, who wanted the succession of AK from the U.S. and refused to be buried "under the American flag," and was instead buried in Canada. The co-chair of her campaign for governor, former Gov. Wally Hickel, claims he's repsonsible for getting her elected. He was elected himself on the AIP ticket. Remember, Palin is quoted as saying about a month ago (in the tape where she says she doesn't know what a VP does) she would only be VP "if it was good for Alaska." Is she still a successionist?
Palin hates America!
"Kerry keeps swinging for the fences like that and someone’s going to want to test him for steroids."
You're kidding, right? That's your idea of swinging for the fences? Impeachment is off the table, the dollar is tanking, we have two illegal wars going on, sanctioned torture, Habeus Corpus is 86ed, & you're impressed because Herman Munster, the man who lost to a retarded monkey, formed a sentence?!
The McCain campaign vetted Palin? What vetting?
1. Palin as mayor raised the sales tax to pay for a sports complex.
2. Palin a Governor raised taxes on oil companies wind fall profits and gave the money back to the citizens of Alaska.
3. Palin as Governor backed Obama's energy plan.
4. Palin supports contraception. She belongs to the group Feminsts for Life organization.
5. Palin was a member of the Alaskan Independence Party.
McCain stated that instead of equal pay for equal work that women should get more education. I wonder what Palin thinks of that?
Senator Kerry did a great job and Stephanopolis could hardly get a word in edgewise. That is what all of Obama's surrogates need to do..........hammer the truth!!
Yep Democrats should not primarily go after Palin herself but highlight McCains pick for VP to question his judgment. One of the most important decisions as President is picking the most able and qualified people to assist and advise you. Obama picked an experienced statesman who knows Washington inside out. McCain picked a nobody from Alaska to help get him elected only to shove her aside once hes in the WH.
dennis @ 21:
We're not talking about John Kerry. We're talking about the choice of Sarah Palin, which is simply mind-boggling regardless of Kerry's criticism.
And do you really want to go down the road that, having made an error, you are no longer trustworthy? There's a long list of screwups by the Bush Administration that basically means Republicans have no credibility left on any subject.
Gotta watch out for them “Troopergates”.
That’s where things started in the unraveling of things for Elliot Spitzer
As long as folks are suggesting tactics and strategies for the Democrats, here's one I'd like to see someone use, if not on the airwaves, certainly on YouTube.
First panel: McCain talking about cancelling or changing the tone of the Republican convention because it would be "inappropriate" to stage a celebration during this time of national tragedy (the hurricane).
Second panel: scenes of devastation left by Katrina, of people on rooftops crying for help. Below this is the date, end of August 2005.
Third panel: McCain and Bush celebrating McCain's birthday, the two of them cutting the cake like they were bride and groom. Below this is the date, end of August 2005.
Final panel: "I guess that's only true during an election year."
Just a thought.
I'd find out about Palin's connections to the AIP. If she was formerly a memeber and had close ties with them as mayor, there must be some quotes out there that would be worth digging up.
"the Flat Earth Caucus" - I laughed.
Thoughts... @ 29:
The poster's name threw me with a head fake.
Mr. Kerry hit it right on the head. This is exactly what I've been saying since this ridiculous announcement was made. They're so sure of their own media hype. That there are that many disgruntled Hillary supporters who are also dumber than a box of rocks and who will follow anyone so long as their reproductive organs are on the inside that they chose this walking joke as a VP.
And that is a miscalculation so incredibly vast it makes one wonder if they've completely lost all concept of reality over at war inc. central.
The woman is an embarrassment and after only a very brief time in office she's managed to become the focus of an ethics investigation AND has the entire national media LAUGHING at her pathetic attempt to hide her 16 year old daughter's pregnancy and pretend the resulting baby is her own.
While she certainly strikes me as the ideal repug. [she's unethical, morally backward and a creationist flat earth idiot besides] she's probably at or near the top of the list of "People no one in their right mind would ever consider for the VP job in a million years."
John Kerry being a true blue Yankee doesn't understand the sexism of the south. Palin will kill McCain's chances because no southern redneck will vote for a woman vice president, to them their place is in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant.
Nada @ 54:
Do you happen to have a link to the source of this one? That would be very interesting indeed.
We now have the ostensible, but by no means certain, twilight of the most corrupt administration in our history. An outfit that lied us into a war, that falsified and forged documents to give credence to the false basis for that war, that engaged in massive illegal domestic surveillance, that engaged in torture, murder, and kidnapping.
That has gouged the Treasury for vast sums, giving the concept of war profiteering an entirely new meaning.
Where do I stop…
And yet these birds are still flying because we don't have an opposition party.
By comparison, Palin's acts appear miniscule, but to be absolutely fair, they are exactly the kind of things for a resumé that one would expect of applicant for the Bush crime outfit.
And she appears to be a quick learner, so she could expand her horizons, given the chance, but perish the thought.
The Bush crime organization does have it standards after all.
Kerry is getting a few nice little shots in but where is the sense of proportion to the big ugly picture.
We are in a police state.
Don't feed the troll.
Thoughts... @ 35:
Now I understand why she was picked. She's above the law. She lies. She has a great It's all about me attitude. And she believes the dinosaurs and Adam and Eve co-existed.
USA TODAY/Gallup: OBAMA 49% - McCain 41%
McCain VP Announcement Causes Bigger Obama Lead
Washington (ECN) - Republican presidential candidate John McCain announced this past week that he has chosen Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his choice for vice president. At this point though, all this seems to have done is given his rival, Democratic nominee Barack Obama a bigger lead.
A new poll released by USA TODAY/Gallup has revealed that Obama now has a bigger lead over McCain than before the VP announcement.
The new poll has found that 33% of Americans do not believe that Gov. Sarah Palin has what is needed to take over as commander in chief if something were to ever happen to McCain.
This compares to 39% who believe she is ready to serve. This is far below the running mate of Obama though, Delaware Sen. Joe Biden, who 57% say they believe is ready to lead if needed.
Overall, Barack Obama now has a lead over McCain of 49% to 41%.
Yipeeeee!!!!!!
Phoenix Justice @ 56:
Ah, it's all speculation, of course:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/31/145838/319/386/581332
As I remarked elsewhere.. the more interesting thing (to me) is how the Evangelical Right isn't just bringing back 1950's-era morals, but 1950's-era gossip as well.
Rasmussen: Obama 47% - McCain 44%
When "leaners" are included, it’s Obama 49% - McCain 46%.
Thoughts... @ 7:
Reminds me of Bush's criteria for selecting influential administration positions: Gooding et al. Never mind experience or compitence, just how mindlessly can they scream "halejuja"?
Rich @ 55:
They'd be less likely to vote for a black man for President than a white guy with a gun-toting female VP running mate.
Phoenix Justice @ 56:
I've actually read it in several places now but this is one of the better places to read it:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223
It's making the rounds. I expect it to start getting some further coverage after the hurricane threat is over. It's certainly possible they'll just try to bury it but it's an open secret at this point.
PorridgeGun @ 60:
God, who the f*ck are these morons?
fastfeat @ 65:
Or most likely not vote at all.
Reminds me of Bush's criteria for selecting influential administration positions: Gooding et al. Never mind experience or compitence, just how mindlessly can they scream "halejuja"?
Competence. The Bushisms are taking over my keyboard. as well.
fastfeat @ 65:
Yes, which means they might not vote at all. And with record turnout among their black neighbors.. things can happen.
What's the bet Palin withdraws her candidacy, citing vicious internet smears against her family as the reason, and McCain picks Bobby Jindal as her replacement?
Nada @ 54:
Don't go anywhere near the "pregnancy" story. It has nothing to do with her qualifications to be Vice President and has nothing to do with McCain's poor judgement.
Don't underestimate her. She's not Dan Quayle. More Putin -- narrow minded, ruthless, chauvanist. She's a lot smarter than McCain and pulls out all the stops to avoid losing, whether it's politics, state beauty contests or state basketball titles. The mysogeny-type attacks have already begun, and all that does is turn Hillary supporters to her defense. For a large number of women voters, feminism is no longer liberal and definitely not about abortion rights -- critical voters are successful women white, educated, and are either on birth control or beyond childbearing concerns anyway.
Watch Maria Bartoroma's CNBC's interview with Palin supporting ANWR drilling. Remember that Alaska is hip deep in timber, ore, oil, and other natural resources to exploit. It's residents pride themselves on western frontier self reliance, but they are merely parasites drawing down what they had no role in producing. Thus, Palin as gov continued the long tradition there of negative taxes, i.e., state monetary gifts to voters for living in Alaska. Like that's the kind of model today for national office?
Biggest myth of all is that Alaska is people living in the wilderness, rather than among the most urbanized states, along with Texas! Yet the Republican party (and the Democrats as well) allowed our cities to rot from the inside out because low-density states determine our president, own the Senate, and the House, too, via gerrymandered packing of urban minority into a handful of Congressional districts.
oncall @ 72:
As an argument: No, stay away.
As gossip: Go right ahead! I'm not going to judge after what they did just recently to Edwards. (and if true, this is a LOT worse)
That said, I don't really care much for gossip either way.
I think there is a larger narrative here.
Palin is supposed to be a Hillary replacement....
Hillary, a hard-working woman, with a tough character and top-notch intellect, who fights for and earns every single one of 18,000,000 votes in a fiercely competetive democratic primary.
The GOP doesn't run a woman in the primary. Palin doesn't prove anything.... except that McCain likes her... so she gets promoted.
How many times has that happened? The hard-working, smart woman has to take backseat to the bubbly, young beauty. This has been the case in most corporate jobs I have worked.
The old man needs diversity, so he promotes the girls that make him feel nice.... and he overlooks the women who threaten his leadership with their competence.
If half the stuff claimed over at TPM about Palin's vendetta are true, we have serious ammo to go after McCain's VP pick.
Do we really need another Cheney?
oncall @ 72:
If she had the birth certificate altered using her political influence, she and McCain can forget this campaign.
EconProf: It's not about 'feminism', it's about Clinton supporters, as this is a blatant play for them.
And Clinton supporters do care about abortion rights, or they've been supporting the wrong candidate altogether.
Alexdem @ 74:
Well, my parents always told me not to gossip. I think that was good advice.
Will McCain keep reminding the American people of his status as a POrW? Prisoner of the Right Wing!
nice job, Kerry, but watch the 'windfall profits tax' bit - Palin actually did impose that tax - and easy on the 'cheney-esque'. She's a loving mother of five [or four, depending on who you ask] and does at least come off as a caring and warm person, something Cheney, regardless of being a father, most certainly does not. That tag won't stick.
dennis @ 21:
Thanks for your history lesson, but it"s time to fast forward yourself to 2008. Nothing Kerry would say would be credible to you neo swift boaters anyway, so what's your point? He has as much right to his opinion as you do, if you can't respect that, then that's your problem, not his.
PorridgeGun @ 60:
Most of those 39% who believe she is ready to serve, either have no idea of what the reponsibilities are. or have no idea of her background or both. In reality, the only person who is really ready to serve is Al Gore.
Sarah's Miracle Baby @ 77:
Gossip until proven otherwise.
Oh Billy @ 31:
Flip-flopper has stuck to Kerry but "miraculously" bounces off McCain ... pretty clear who the "liberal media" is working for ...
Ruthless People @ 80:
...or would it be his POtrW, or POTRW status? Not sure of the abbreviation.
Nada @ 66:
Daily Kos has already debunked and finally put to rest their own rumor, Nada. The only coverage it's getting is the ridiculousness of the story and the obvious fact that some liberal blogs are as evil and vicious as the claims they make about the other party's tactics are, if not more so.
PorridgeGun @ 71:
Now that is hopefully way too intelligent a move for the smear-masters running the McCain show. It would create a much larger problem that we have now. My LA friends tell me that underneath some of the religious fantasies this dude is one smart puppy.
A brief analysis of William Kristol's (aka Billy Bood) yake on the Palin choice. Read more.
http://www.tagg-lines.com/2008/09/billy-bloods-column-exegesis.html
She's a perfect candidate. She lived right next to Russia so she knows all about foreign policy. She knows how to keep a secret with her daughter's teenage pregnancy (as good Republicans find a way to do instead of teaching their children about sex and birth control). Well at least she doesn't have to wear her hair swept across her bald ass head like other VP choices. And all the women will surely vote for her because, after all, they are women. And she wants creationism taught in schools. What better way to prove she's on the side of Jesus than that? She's all for standing up to big oil companies by letting them drill more in her state. She can hire her daddy as personal adviser. He seems to know a lot about everything. She's perfect. Especially if McGramps is planning to place a brass poll and rail in the oval office. After all, a man needs a piece of ass to look at in meetings. That's why women are allowed to work at companies now.
dennis @ 4:
John Edwards....so what about him? If you're referring to extramarital affairs, McCain's already been there, done that.
And it was John McCain who considered switching parties and it was McCain who approached Kerry.
Jeebus, these rethugs are just like kids....you have to correct them all the time.
Had Kerry fought like this in 2004 we could have stopped Bush/Cheney's America destroying agenda in it's tracks. We could have been undoing 4 years of damage instead of 8. Now the damage done America by Bush and the GOP seems an almost insurmountable challenge to overcome. After 4 more years of McBush forget it. Pack your bags and move to Canada.
Is anyone else seeing the humor in the 16 year old daughter pregnancy and the recent popular movie "Juno"
Dems get balls after the damage has already been done.
If the Democrats had woken up to this degree two or four years ago we wouldn't be in quite as deep a pile of shit as we are now.
oncall@72 No, pregnancy would have nothing to do with qualifications. But pulling off a scam like THAT could point to a problem with the truth.
Look, this business which alleges that har amniotic sac broke in Texas and she then flew to Alaska to have the child? I'm only a retired fire/medic, but when a para4/gravid4 (four complete pregnancies/four successful viable births) mother 's amnio sac breaks - in general it means that the delivery is imminent. I mean RIGHT NOW. Yes, there are exceptions. But there are too many exceptions happening in this story.
And the photos of the daughter? Isn't that the wrong place for "baby fat?" Maybe a beer belly, but there is something very wrong with the picture as a whole.
bmw 528 @ 82:
Right, bmw 528i, I'm the neo-Swiftboater. I didn't say anything about his military record.
Meanwhile you haven't said word one about the rumors you must surely know are untrue about Sarah Palin's baby, or what those rumors' effects would have on a 17yr old girl who never asked to be put in this position. It's to me the ultimate in hypocrisy to voice your outrage at John Kerry's attack on his military record and then stand idly by as people on the left rip in to this ridiculous story with rabid zeal and no concern for the psyche of an innocent young girl. It's all fair game to you.
Thanks for the morality lesson.
I think Palin should withdraw....
If I had five kids, one of whom was an infant with special needs... I wouldn't put up with the crap of running for office.
But then again, I think being President/Vice President has to be the suckiest job in the world. If you don't get enough sleep one night because you have a sick kid to take care of... you are still responsible for hundreds of millions of people. On the other hand, if you put the hundreds of millions first, then you aren't putting your kids first.
I don't know what the answer is... having kids should not keep you out of office. But then again... politicians, in general, tend to be a bit reptilian... and can deal with this kind of stuff better than I can.
The best Dem. to blow McCain's horrifically awful judgment in choosing Palin to smithereens is....
HILLARY CLINTON!
No one will do it better, and I can't wait for the day she gets started.
Trab @ 43:
Landslide, but then the pres. directive will take affect and that will be that!!!!
dennis @ 87:
Do you have a link to the retraction?
Mick Piobr @ 96:
Speculation won't win elections. If you want to discuss this topic go to KOS, there are over 2500 comments on this issue. alone.
EconProf @ 73:
The debate needs to be kept on the true issues that are going to make a difference in people's lives. The pregnancy rumor, while it may say much about Palin's honesty if (IF) it could be proved (and that's unlikely), is a red herring.
What's most important is where she stands on issues--equal pay for equal work; her dishonesty about her reaction to the bridge to nowhere (in her first official speech, yet); her 1 1/2 years of experience; her absolute lack of foreign policy credentials and travel abroad; her Sixth Century interpretation of science. She's not so much a carbon copy of McCain as she is george w bush.
Honestly, if I were a Republican, I'd be absolutely pissed that McCain had a chance to nominate a woman--and didn't pick Elizabeth Dole. He picked someone who couldn't carry Elizabeth Dole's pumps.
oncall @ 72:
It shows a lot of bad judgment on the part of a lot of people. If no one 'goes anywhere near' it then they're covering up for her.
I think anyone willing to perpetrate this kind of ridiculous lie is clearly showing us that she's not qualified for the position she is seeking.
Although I'm sure cheney sees it as a sign of someone willing to carry on his personal legacy of secrecy and lies.
Thoughts... @ 7:
that is the way Obama is approaching it, he is 90% ignoring Palin and going straight for McCain.
On a side note, Kerry means well but his way of speaking is long. He could of worded is answer with clearer shorter explanation though
While we're talking about Mccain....let's talk about how McCain & the RNP are trying to exploit GUSTAF for their benefit. I'm surprised nobody has picked up on this.
First- McCain and the RNC cannot top the DNC.
second- the fewer things/presentations McCain & Palin have to make to expose themselves to the rest of the USA, the better it is for them. That is why they have their fingers crossed GUSTAF gets to be a category 4-5 and are scared if it continues to dicipate into a category 2.
3- GUSTAF gives Bush & Cheney good reason not to attend the RNC and that is like winning the lottery for McCain. The less he can be seen & associated with Bush...the better.
So, you talk about DECEIT. First he confirms Palin as his VP choice when anybody with a half abrain realizes it's merely for Clinton's female voters. Now, he's using the unfortunate circumstances of GUSTAF as cover to show his responsible nature.
And FOX news with their coverage is doing their best to show how horrific this cat 2 huurrican is...........my God, there goes a garbage can down one of Louisiana's streets!
Gotta Go!! This could be Armageddon
Don Webber @ 101:
Yes I'd like to read the retraction too please.
Alexdem @ 78:
I honestly don't believe this. It's a good story line to keep the media involved in the Clinton intrigue, but this is really about shoring up his red-meat conservative social values base--which was lukewarm to him.
oncall @ 102:
Point taken; correct. However, if I were a member of the opposing team, I might initiate a very quiet investigation of this matter. I'm just sayin'.
dennis @ 4:
BT @ 75:
Excuse me??? I hate Palin as much as you, but she at least got everything on her own, beating incumbent an mayor and governor of her own party and then a former Democratic governor in the general election, while raising a large family to boot. Talk about hard working and intelligent!
Hillary got there the old fashioned way: by choosing an ambitious, talented spouse and going along for the ride as wife of a governor and prez. She couldn't be fired after botching medical care reform for America or demanding Bill get involved with Whitewater so they'd have a college fund for Chelsea. Then she carpetbagged to a super-blue, large state to use her hubby's rep and name as a platform for a national run, staffed by Bill's top people.
Look, I've worked for bosses who were vain, incompetent, and power mad, too -- both men and women! The women were the first to throw other women under the bus after spouting their love of for women's rights. Hillary's run was all about her just as your support for her is all about you. Look in the mirror.
Mick Piobr @ 96:
Mick Piobr, part-time pediatrician and OB/Gyn (as a hobby).
'Wrong place for baby fat'. Good Lord, listen to yourself, Mick. The better thing for you to do have done would've been to admit you lifted that 'concern' DIRECTLY and word-for-word from the Daily Kos website, and at least partially distanced yourself from it to the point you could merely say it was an interesting observation. Instead you try to fake us into believing your history as a fire/medic gave you the proper qualification to make that assessment.
Beyond the pale.
People forget that Obama was brought up in Chicago.
He is very much on our side... but you don't get anywhere in Chicago without knowing how to fight. They play hardball politics... and they play for keeps. And we need a guy like this to take on the big interests that are making us miserable.
I think that it is time to highlight this aspect of O's biography.
kerry is right to invoke limbaugh- he learned his lesson. limbaugh is the general of rove's invisible media and maybe kerry and the obama team will associate mccain and especially palin with limbaugh all teh way to the election.
palin was leaked just before limbaugh's fri show and he was ecstatic, using it as the final rationalization/flip flop excuse to finally get behind mccain- bringing the base together for the ceonvention.
for obama it should be limbaugh limbaugh limbaugh all the way to the election-- no one person represents the morals and principles fo the modern GOP better than limbaugh and no one did more to sell and excuse and rationalize it's corruption and incompetence to america.
why did kerry never display gonads like these when he was campagning for himself?
arrgh.
dennis @ 97:
Dennis, I have to agree that the pregnancy rumor/story is out-of-bounds. But to be fair, go over to Free Republic, and you'll find this story raging there, too--perhaps more so than here. As I read this thread, numerous people are saying that this story is both crude and beside the point--some aren't, but many are. On Free Republic, it's being hailed as "Karl Rove's genius at work," (the idea that this kind of fast one could be pulled in order to save Palin from some kind of taint when she's the ideal social conservative candidate).
I no more believe that Karl Rove is behind this than I believe the story itself--unless I'm somehow proved wrong, which is highly unlikely. This story doesn't matter to my life; I'm more concerned about the cost of heating my home this winter and a major cut in my health insurance.
Sarah's Miracle Baby @ 83:
She's ready to serve. At Denny's.
Ruthless People @ 80:
It's still POW - Prisoner of the Wingnuts
And the photos of the daughter? Isn't that the wrong place for "baby fat?" Maybe a beer belly, but there is something very wrong with the picture as a whole.
The photos of the daughter came from an Alaskan newspaper and are years older than the pregnancy itself. Don't take the bait. The real atrocity is flying to Alaska after her water broke. Even if the story of the daughter is true, it plays directly into right-wing anti-abortion/Family Values framing. Stick with the crazy lady going to the airport instead of the hospital and recklessly endangering her unborn.
That is not true, EconProf.
Look at Palin's rise to prominence. She was lifted up by the Alaska GOP. And, that's not saying much. What's the Alaska population? Half a million people? That's not exactly a competetive pool of applicants.
How did McCain pick her? He met her once at a meeting? Then he listened to his gut? And announced her candidacy while staring at her behind?
Give me a break.... Palin's pick has pander all over it.
Hillary is tough. And she busted her ass to get anywhere in the primary. Hillary has been attacked every step of the way.... Accused of everything: The GOP called her a lesbian, a rape-victim, a murderer, a pushover, a bitch... for an entire decade. And she made it through. If anything, her husband has been a liability to her political career. If people weren't so worried about Bill's problems, she probably would be the Democratic nominee by now.
Please don't compare Clinton to Palin... Because Hillary could floss her teeth with Palin, after eating McCain for breakfast.
Norwood Woman @ 99:
If she does it in the style of the speech she gave at the convention, then Mc Lamo and Mrs. Hockey Mom better be very afraid. I look forward to this too.
Nada @ 107:
To be honest, I'd rather see you guys flail away at this, if not for the fact I truly feel bad for Palin's teenage daughter, having two myself.
Daily Kos: Sarah Palin Baby Story Ender
'OK, there is a visibly-pregnant Sarah Palin talking with a CBS 11 (Dallas Juneau) reporter at the Governor's meeting in Texas end of the Alaska legislative session. She clearly appears to be pregnant. Unless someone has counter evidence, we can drop this crap now...'
Suddenly to DKos, now it's crap.
EconProf @ 111: I hate Palin as much as you, but she at least got everything on her own, beating incumbent an mayor and governor of her own party and then a former Democratic governor in the general election, while raising a large family to boot. Talk about hard working and intelligent!
palin is a creation of the rove machine, prepped and protected and nurtured for particular characteristics and prefered in the GOP selection process through primaries. she is blackmailable wingnut who may be smart but is serious worshipper of the simple certitude - she is in serious denial - with the narrow focus and narrow vision. she has been handpicked because she can be guaranteed to be a team bush player.
dennis @ 87:
Fuck you. You really want to have this disscussion? John Kerry was an ACTUAL war hero and the right made fun of him and acted as though GETTING SHOT warranted a band-aid. John McCain is a stupid cunt who crashed his plane and was lucky enough not to be killed or tortured to death by the Vietcong and then he squealed to them that his Father and Grandfather we're famous Admirals so he could get out but the Kissinger nixed that.
Mick Piobr @ 109:
So everyone is Marcus Welby now?
How about the simple point of parenthood? We all have priorities and they change. Let's backtrack.
Palin is an aggressive, intelligent WOMEN who decided city council could fit into the challenges of raising 2 kids. Then, as she decided to go up the political ladder, you'd think that the plate might be getting full, but no...she has 2 more kids.
Now, as Govenor and coming with it, all the travelling, (not only within the vast state but over Canada (like an ocean) to get to the rest of the USA) she has a 5th child.
I know several stay at home mothers with 4 children who consider it a full time job.
But this time she has a child with Downes Syndrome and I think a vast majority of mothers would decide they need to spend more time with this child.....not less.
Children with Downes are very special people but they require constant attention by all family members.
So, Palin has shown her priorities as a Mother and the irresponsibility nature as a women in getting pregnant beyond 40 years of age, Further, knowing the child was going to be with Downes, she made the decision then, he would be ok with minimum mother contact.
I see an extremely self-serving woman here, where everyone around her (especially family)takes the perburbial back seat to her existence. This scares me because didn't you just come off 8 years with a President who "got his own way"?
Hopefully, all those "designed" Clinton women see her accordingly.
Norwood Woman @ 99:
She "got started" by not getting the fuck out of the race once it was clear she had no hope of winning, paving the way for this Palin nonsense.
oncall @ 25:
purely and completely snark. unless this was typed on an iWafer?
Jeon Ji-Yung @ 119:
The photos of the daughter came from an Alaskan newspaper and are years older than the pregnancy itself. Don't take the bait. The real atrocity is flying to Alaska after her water broke. Even if the story of the daughter is true, it plays directly into right-wing anti-abortion/Family Values framing. Stick with the crazy lady going to the airport instead of the hospital and recklessly endangering her unborn.
This story is a complete non-starter. Even if it were true--and I'm not saying it is--it would be next to impossible to prove without Palin's help. Better to let it lie. Seriously, it's a family matter.
The more important questions--that are being asked right now on CBS, which surprises the hell out of me--have to do with the bridge to nowhere and the investigation into the way Palin got the trooper fired. If the trooper did what he's alleged to have done, I'd want him fired, too--even if he were my "former brother-in-law" (actually, if he were my current brother-in-law, I'd *REALLY* want him fired). But she may have overplayed her hand in how she arranged it, then lied to cover it up. That's important because it reminds people of the Republicans firing their own attorneys. Remember the lesson from Nixon (and Bill Clinton): it's never the crime; it's the cover-up.
In the absence of a convention, where Republicans could change the subject--and due to the fact that the hurricane isn't as powerful as it was supposed to be--the press is bored and looking for a story. Palin's past, and McCain's failure to vet her, is now looking important to them. Keep your eyes on the prize, folks.
dennis @ 122:
The picture is interesting but doesn't answer all the other questions. And given the mountainous piles of crap that we've been fed by the reslug party I'm not going to be swayed by a single picture. It doesn't explain any of the other pictures, her lack of obvious pregnancy in the third term etc. It also seems there is some dispute as to when and where it was taken.
bmw 528 @ 121:
You mean the Hillary that claimed (along with hubby) that McCain was a lifelong friend an ally? That Hillary? Or the one that said McCain was vastly more ready to lead from Day 1 than Obama? That Hillary? Or the one that said that McCain has vast experience compared to Obama having given a speech? That Hillary? Oh ya, I can hardly wait for Mrs. "35 Years Experience" to go toe to toe with the party she praised over her fellow party candidate. I'm sure the media will not show footage of her alternative points of view.
dennis @ 97:
I don't have time to listen to your condescending tripe about "morality" when your party sets the standard for gutter politics. And I didn't say anything about Palin's pregnancy as to me, that's a non issue, Dennis, and should stay that way. I'll speak for myself, thank you.
You conveniently ignored the real meaning of my message by refusing to forward yourself to the present moment, preferring instead to indulge yourself Kerry's past judgments to which you say since he made a mistake then, nothing he says today can be taken seriously. As another poster noted before, using that bizarre logic pretty much puts your party out of business for good.
If you have to use that kind of twisted logic to justify your viewpoint, go ahead. The public ultimately won't be fooled by such deception. And spare us your condescending fake morality argument, I have no time to suffer hypocrites gladly.
Oh Billy @ 31:
whether by flip or flop, McKeatingFive has voted with boosh 95% of the time.
POW = MMA
Perfectly Owned W-clone = Maverick My Ass
Where was this man in 2004?
dennis @ 122:
Dennis, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with you. To me, this story is a private family issue. Every family has its skeletons, and a 16-year-old isn't old enough to run for office. It wasn't cool when Rush Limbaugh called Chelsea Clinton a dog, and it isn't cool now.
As I said before, it isn't just leftie blogs pursuing the story line. Both sides need to power down.
Just give the Palin sugar-buzz a few days to wear off....
Nobody will want McCain ruling from his gut. We had that with Bush. It sucked.
Forget about Palin... this decision is all about McCain and a politically-motivated gamble he is making with the security of the country.
Damn Right Kerry!
Dot @ 44:
Secession -
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
se·ces·sion /sɪˈsɛʃən/
Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-sesh-uhn]
–noun
1. an act or instance of seceding.
2. (often initial capital letter) U.S. History. the withdrawal from the Union of 11 Southern states in the period 1860–61, which brought on the Civil War.
3. (usually initial capital letter) Fine Arts. a style of art in Germany and Austria concurrent with and related to Art Nouveau.
[Origin: 1525–35; < L sécessiōn- (s. of sécessiō) withdrawal, equiv. to sécess(us) (ptp. of sécédere to secede; see cession) + -iōn- -ion]
—Related forms
se·cede /sɪˈsid/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[si-seed]
–verb (used without object), -ced·ed, -ced·ing.
to withdraw formally from an alliance, federation, or association, as from a political union, a religious organization, etc.
JohnnyThief @ 45:
I'm with you!
We should show her every ounce of respect that the right showed to Chelesa Clinton. You don't want your kids being scrutinized, stay the fuck out of politics. You guys set the template, we're just following it.
dennis @ 122:
You got two teenagers Dennis? I guess that means they'll be enlisting soon to go fight in the war you support for other people's kids to fight?
bobhussein @ 123:
palin is a creation of the rove machine, prepped and protected and nurtured for particular characteristics and prefered in the GOP selection process through primaries. she is blackmailable wingnut who may be smart but is serious worshipper of the simple certitude - she is in serious denial - with the narrow focus and narrow vision. she has been handpicked because she can be guaranteed to be a team bush player.
Can't you see by all these attacks on Palin are the same types of standard stuff they threw at any woman including Hillary? "Stay at home and take care of your kids" is the most sexist of all. Keep it up folks. It will drive more folks to McCain. We Democrats still have a long way to go before they are ready to nominate a woman, it seems.
Prediction: Sarah Palin's family will very soon develop something that will allovasudden require her full-time presence back in AK, and she will withdraw (I hope she kicks and screams during her removal!). :) McCain will then pick someone (anyone) with more credibility behind him/her. If he fails to do that, his candidacy is doomed. What kind of decision-making capability is it that would put such an untested neophyte a heartbeat (in a cancer-visited bod) away from the Presidency?
In other words, Sarah Palin is (more-or-less) equivalent to Harriet Miers, with a little Monica Goodling thrown in for piquancy.
Remember folx, we are still within the Labor Day political hiatus, and before whatever passes for the Republican Convention. When the world comes back tomorrow, there will be a much larger collective gasp of "What the FUCK does that EEEDIOTT think he's doing? This cannot stand."
I know my views are not unique but that's the way it seems to me, too.
i was wondering the same thing nikola, i desperately wanted to see this back in '04...better late than never!
Rich @ 55:
maybe not the redneck, but his wife, daughter, mother and sister might vote for Palin.
BT @ 134:
And may I hear an Amen.
Harper's Magazine tells about Palin's pastor problem. It seems she has two end time Hagee fundamentalist
Armageddon wishers in her past.
I don't think a death denying, evolution denying end timer is a good idea anywhere near the button.
http://harpers.org/archive/2008/08/hbc-90003486
PorridgeGun @ 60:
the next poll will show the lead narrowing. bet on it.
RobertD @ 133:
Agree Limbaugh was completely wrong, and agree this line is wrong. To your prior post that the Freepers are crediting the origins of this rumor to Karl Rove, that one's ridiculous too, though I doubt they were serious. Righties love to make lefties think Rove is this super-human mind-control expert.
Sarah Palin has done more to highlight the stupidity of the some of the conspiracy nuts on the Left in 3 days than Karl Rove has done in 8 years.
PorridgeGun @ 63:
As I said when I brought up Kerry's comment on Sunday: I might have avoid use of the word "prisoner" in referring to McCain. You just KNOW the Republi-nuts are going to scream bloody murder over it to distract from Kerry's point.
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