Woodward on 60 Minutes: Military generals opposed surge
By SilentPatriot Tuesday Sep 09, 2008 1:30pm
Bob Woodward's latest book, The War Within: A Secret White House History 2006-2008, has just hit the shelves and as usual, contains some incredible new facts about President Bush's style of "leadership" and decision-making. On 60 Minutes Sunday, Woodward sat down with Scott Pelley and dropped the bombshell that the idea of the surge came from the White House and was vehemently opposed by the top military brass.
"What does General Casey, sitting in Baghdad, think of having additional troops?" Pelley asked.
"He thinks that Baghdad is a troop sump-a place you can put endless numbers of troops in. And he does not want to add force," Woodward said.
"The president, who has said in public, endless times, that he relies on his generals to tell him what they need, is actually going his own way here," Pelley remarked.
"That's right," Woodward agreed. "The records of the joint chiefs show that the idea of five brigades came from the White House, not from anybody except the White House."
So much for listening to the Generals on the ground.
And then there's this from the Washington Post:
In response to a question about how the White House settled on a troop surge of five brigades after the military leadership in Washington had reluctantly said it could provide two, Bush said: "Okay, I don't know this. I'm not in these meetings, you'll be happy to hear, because I got other things to do."
There's Bush presidential leadership in a nutshell for you: In perhaps the most important decision of his entire presidency - the decision to double down on a failed war, putting the lives of tens of thousands of Americans and Iraqis at risk -- Bush, by his own admission, has "other things to do."
I wonder if Cheney is gonna call Woodward and curse him out again.
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frist!
Does this now justifu 'Petreaus Betray Us?"
It would seem that it does
So the Generals and Obama agree.
More bad news for McCain.
He has other things to do.
Like figure out how to avoid war criminal charges.
And people are really going to vote for McSame?
Is it just me or is Woodie beginning to look like an unsmiling krystolmeth, like his panties are in a wad?
"I got other things to do. I'm top bidder on this cool plane on eBay."
Yeah, Bushie's got other things to do. The mere presidency of the most powerful country on earth is beneath His Royal Highness Mr. Emperor of the Universe, I guess. Megalomania knows no bounds.
[Deleted. Spam. Site Monitor]
If I remember correctly, there was a big hullabaloo that Petreaus was not briefed by the White House before he went before Congress and justified the surge. Does that now make a lot of sense?
Why did Woodward completely reverse his position on whether the surge "worked" when he appeared on Bill O'Reilly last night?
What a wimp. He sat there like a lump while O'Reilly established at the onset that Obama "admitted the surge worked" (he didn't say the surge worked).
By the end of the interview, O'Reilly had Woodward co-operating in the spin that the surge worked, that none of the supposedly great things that have happened would have happened without the surge and that we are winding down on our involvement in Iraq becasue of the wonderful victory produced by the surge.
Huh? That is the total opposite of what Woodward says in his book and has been saying in interviews on 60 Minutes and elsewhere.
Why I am morally certain Cheney kept The Chimperor out of the discussions of the PNAC "Pearl Harbor event: Bush said: “Okay, I don’t know this. I’m not in these meetings, you’ll be happy to hear, because I got other things to do.” Cheney held/holds the Intel portfolio in the Regime. He wouldn't have trusted the Presnishul chucklehead any further than he could have physically tossed him. Bush didn't know, and was authentically pole-axed--7 minutes worth--by the news when he heard it in that Florida classroom.You can't fake that kind of helpless confusion. But Darth? He knew everything...
By insisting the Surge has been successful, the devils at 60 Minutes are really framing this story to make GWB look like a maverick who knew more than his generals.
I would say at this point if you still support this Republican war of choice the you are against America. You stand against our soldiers you stand against our generals and you stand against our citizens. Please if you are a Republican go and find another country. I hear Dubai is nice this time of year. Please you hate Ameica anyway so just leave! aren't you Republicans the same dickless fools who spout "American - Love It or Leave It" - well you clearly don't love it, so take you own advise and give real Americans some peace.
good thread silentpatriot....this is an important topic. it's
my belief it's very possible mccain will manage conflicts
very similar to how bush/cheney have.
this is a interview: bob woodward on fresh air a couple days ago. i recommend it ....don't have time save it
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=94414058
"because I got other things to do.”
God how I've hated that spoiled frat boy for 8 years ... that can't be healthy.
Bullshit!
David Patraeus is not fire proof!
Harry Truman got fed up with Douglas McArthur's insubordination and fired his ass.
It can be done.
The part of Woodward's book excerpts that I found most disturbing was that Bush wanted body counts, so he would know we were "fighting back". Another lesson not learned from Viet Nam.
Woodward: Bin Laden Capture Could Be October Surprise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSvIomvGrzE
It comes down to the definition of 'SURGE'.
A 'surge' actually is a buildup followed by a withdrawal.
If that was the reason for it, it accomplished what the buildup demanded, but the withdrawal has yet to take place, and it is actually without an end.
But when Bush announced it, 'SURGE' was not what it was supposed to be. It was desiged to be a tool for the Iraqi government to have the opportunity to solve their internal problems, which has not happened. So what we have now is that the tool works, but now product has yet been produced by it.
Like giving a carpenter a hammer, a saw and some wood to build a table. The carpenter is sawing away, but no table yet, because the customer can't make up his mind what kind of table he wants, but the saw works.
The Plan should have been called something besides just 'surge'
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 13:
All those companies who have made a ton of money from the war, love this America. The one ruled by the Repigs. And the morons at the bottom who get truely shafted by the Repigs and the big companies continue with the same old stupidities none the less.
It sure would be nice if they got out and let "thinking" individuals take over for a while.
It's funny in a number of ways. The Bush regime's baby killers got their terrorist asses kicked by the people of Iraq and so the baby killers didn't want the Christian terrorists in the White House prolonging the slaughter, knowing that the Christofascists would never be able to seize control of the oil.
The Christian terrorists in the White House, however, being religious extremists, mass murdering terrorists, war criminals, and traitors refused to accept the fact that the people of Iraq had won. That and Christians have no qualms against raping, torturing, and murdering innocent brown people.
this is the best short video i've seen about the mcSurge.
the linguistic game the (R) is playing. where's the
political reconciliation? they leave that part of the surge
out...condi rice was against the surge...i encourage all
to watch and save. the right has made this a black and white issue for easy consumption for people who will eat anything.
http://www.veracifier.com/episode/TPM_20080723
“That’s right,” Woodward agreed. “The records of the joint chiefs show that the idea of five brigades came from the White House, not from anybody except the White House.”
Didn't come from that military genius at the AEI, Kagan?
The American people don't want facts, they are too hard.
Too hard to understand, too hard to remember, if understood even dimly.
The American people don't read books, they are too hard.
The 'war' was undertaken with a false pretext.
Anything, everything after that, is illegal.
Woodward is such a stingy whore. I hate how everyone laps up his "privileged access" crap. His whole career was based on reluctance and ostentatiously keeping secrets. "Oh, hey, look everybody. I'm Bob Woodward. Come pay attention to me---oh, no, I can't tell you that. I wish I could. I'm returning to my my holy mountain top with all my secrets now. Catch me if you can."
Jeez, he's like that bastard Lucky Charms leprechaun... and what's up with his diction? *ugh*
woody, tokin librul @ 11:
I agree 100% with your assessment.
GW knew something was up before he entered the classroom, and he knew his job was to be far from the WhiteHouse and to do nothing.
And he did a GREAT job !
So it's now WWMD? "What would McCain do?"
(...or "W's Weapons of Mass Destruction")
#25
And your point is?
Point to something he has ever said that was wrong
Alice X - (Chomsky Nader) - status quObama - change you can pretend in - @ 24:
Exactly. Anything taking more effort than using a TV remote is insignificant. All the glassy-eyed Village of the Damned Kristchunites chanting in unison for Palin will never see, nor understand any of this.
displaced @ 27:
Or WWSPD because after all Sarah Palin will be wearing the pants in that admin!
please may I never hear that moronic "on the ground" phrase again
it has almost replaced the even more imbecilic "whatever-gate"
Zinn: US 'In Need of Rebellion'
ronhohn @ 28:
It's not what he says but HOW he says it or does not say it, as the case may be.
Elie Wiesel @ 12:
This is also about how great Bob Woodward is and CBS owns the publisher and a total commercial to buy the book and to keep reading Woodward for the big secret in the next episode. Also Bush went over Cheneys head.
I hate to change the subject but Obama is going to lose. We will have another four years of this type of war madness. Unless some 527's type step in and neutralize Palin. She gets the sympathy card. Obama cannot attack her unless some swiftboating occurs. Sorry but the truth is the truth.
does woodward want us to believe that military intelligence has come up with a special new device that allows the military to find the whereabouts of specific people???
horseshit
its called caishe
we are paying out 30 mil per month to specific insurgent groups
for that kind of money, they will tell you anything
does woodward discuss the cash payments?
and again....would the american people have bought this war if it was about liberation?? i dont think so
the surge the surge the surge , the hell with the damn surge ..it's just another tactic to manage the occupation of Iraq , while they still have no sovereignty , still have massive unemployment , still have thousands of kids dying from malnutrition , still have thousands killed from uncontrollable street crime, never mentioned by the complicit media , still have large areas where Iraqis can't drive , controlled by occupation forces ,still hAVE BRUTAL PRISONS operated by foreigners and now we find out that occupation forces are spying on their president , probably not a unknown by Malaki .
Woodward telling us something like the PLANS TO ESTABLISH BASES TO CONTROL THE REGIONS OIL SUPPLY , UNTIL THEN SHUT UP , YOUR LITTLE TIDBITS ABOUT TACTICS ARE USELESS AND ARE JUST THERE TO CREATE BUZZ , TO SELL YOUR IDIOTIC BOOKS . GO AWAY
A couple things. First, I would love to learn this ultra-secret war tactic that helps identify insurgent leaders. Does anyone have any insight into this? Second, when you force 30,000 troops into enemy territory, the enemy will logically flee the area, regroup, strategize, and again attack when they find where the weaknesses are. It's only a matter of time before violence will again escalate, and another "surge" is put into effect. The surge was convenient in that it gives breathing space during the elections. Will it be the same come February?
"Don't let it fail..."
What is he hiding? Those words seem very problematic.
With all due respect to the always-reliable Bob Woodward and cognizant of my own belief that this is absolutely true, I'd still like to see Bernstein run a fact check.
I'm also not impressed with Thomas Friedman's newfound insight that the Iraq war is a complicated mess that's not just going to fix itself.
Still, I do love it when the flock comes home to Jesus.
Spock @ 16:
Of course it can....bush fires generals more often than most people change underwear.
What about Woodward's announcement on Larry King that the US has an ultra secret deadly weapon and has been using it in Iraq. Is this weapon connected to the 16 soldiers that committed "suicide" a few days ago? And if Woodward knows about this weapon, why in the hell is he keeping it secret?
http://www.joemygod.blogspot.com/
I do not trust Woodward any longer. He gives us so much then thats enough. As an American citizen knowing what he knows he is obstructing justice by protecting the perpetrators of an illegal war. We all got fucked royally by this administration and what does Woodward do, sell books. Thanks for Watergate Bob now fuck off. Top Secret procedure to find Grand Puba insurgents my ass. Cocktail hour is early today you pompous ass.
remember the middle east commander admiral fallon
he wanted to use diplomacy
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=58325§ionid=3510203
"I’m not in these meetings, you’ll be happy to hear, because I got other things to do.”
But at least like Cheney (on going to Vietnam), were they "better" things to do?
EarthAbides @ 42:
Eversince Watergate Woodward has been useless as tits on a bull. He is a mercenary with a White House pass. He withholds valuable information to sell books. Some American!
As for that deadly secret weapon - you just have to wait for the book!
Steve E @ 44:
I love every word! Cheers
"Secret advanced operative capabilities" are a new program ... BS ...
umm they're called "death squads", Bob.
EarthAbides @ 42:
i believe woodward is a trekkie
in the episode, mirror, mirror...the captain kirk of the alternative universe has a weapon called the tantalous ray
it is a magic camera that can see anywhere in the universe and by the push of a button, make your enemy dissapear
so according to woodward, this is what the united states military has developed
but the real truth is...we are paying alot more for information
and the surge hasnt worked....if it had, all the troops could come home
all we did was increase the numbers of the occupation
am i a good parent when my child behaves while i am in the room, then acts like a little bastard when i leave?
and if the war was really started on the pretense of liberation...i want bush put on trial for war crimes....for not one un resolution uses this as a case for war
i want him tried...convicted and waterboarded
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/10-0
The Sickening Praise for 'The Daily Show'
by Norman Solomon
(not what you think - slams the MSM, not the Daily Show)
"Well, OK. That says a lot about "The Daily Show." But what does it say about the "real" news media -- and especially about the most important and self-important huge media outlets that dispense news with enormous ripple effects across the media terrain?
If -- as the New York Times soberly reported in the article -- "straight news programs cannot" tackle the "big issues of the day" while "speaking truth to power," we should ask a key question: Why not?"
msnbc has a vote on whether obama was right or wrong
too far regarding 'pig' comment
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/
earl @ 49:
ya...thats the first thing i thought
meaning we are using assasination as a weapon...something we have been loathe to do since the cia tried to off castro
its nice...we have turned our troops into criminals
constituent @ 52:
wrong link
but here is howard fineman's attempt at being obama's new campaign manager
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26640489/
howard is so wrong on so many points
howard...shut up and report
Really sick ... add that to the 60 children killed by drones in Afghanistan last wknd
47 Georgia Democrat
I can't fault Woodward for not talking about the "SECRET" whatever it is. I would like to think its something that will ultimately help in finding OBL & friends.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 54:
the link is on their front page
earl @ 49:
That was pretty much my assessment. Not unlike the targeted killings used in Israel, or the Phoenix program that was run in Vietnam.
Perhaps its a "secret new capability" because the assassins have a really cool cell-phone with which they can call the President to give him the body count.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 53:
I think quite a few were criminal goin in if that History Channel Doc "Gangland" is correct...there are ALOT gang members joining the military...,MS 13, La Eme, Latin Kings, and of course the Nazi's have been there actively recruiting for years.
Our military ain't what it used to be.
Demosthenes @ 58:
ya...but as israel has learned...targeted killings dont work
earl @ 49:
Right on. As mentioned in another post, millions have been handed over to the bad boys to stop shooting at our troops. The press was told to fuck off and no more picture taking. Then anything that moved had air power come in and obliterate the local geography. Cement barriers were erected to stop any civilian movement. They always ask the generals and guys like Woodward about what is actually happening. Then the bullshit begins. You never ever see the men and women doing the actual fighting interviewed en masse. They do know what is really happening.
surfjac @ 56:
They have had 7 years to do that. Woodward is just pimping his next book. I agree with steve@44.
Osama Bin Laden is DEAD!!! He has been dead for a long long time. Ultra secret weapons that go against the Geneva Conventions need to be brought to the light of day. Woodward is protecting the serial killers in the white house... Bastard
Woodward is flip-flopping on this now. He says the record of the joint chiefs says they didn't approve of sending 5 brigades to Iraq in one interview (60 mins.), then tells Larry King that the idea was discussed between Stephen Hadley and Peter Pace, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff! Here's the quote he gave to Larry: "And in the conversation, Hadley says well, that idea of five brigades -- because the Army officially was only asking for two brigades -- Hadley says it comes from his -- Hadley's -- discussions with General Pace, the chairman of the joint chiefs." I like Bob, but he's contradicting himself here and the next MSM member who interviews him should get him to tell the public the truth once and for all: did the idea of sending 30,000 troops as part of the surge instead of 10,000 (2 brigades) come from the White House (Hadley) or the joint chiefs chairman (Peter Pace)?
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 60:
Has Israel learned that?
I was under the impression they still practice "targeted killings" aka assassinations quite frequently, and are very good at it.
Steve E @ 61:
The men and women doing the fighting were talking at Winter Soldier ... that was on all the news channels right? >/snark.
I agree with those here who believe Woodward is nothing but an arrogant, willing pawn of the White House who will keep his lips firmly locked on Bush's ass and write whatever they want as long as it sells his books. The Bobster's depiction of W is practically Pattonesque when instead it should be Ahabesque. And spare me this weapon-so-secret-they-would-have-to-kill-me bullshit. If Woodward really cared about this country -- not to mention real investigative journalism -- instead of his wallet he'd come clean. What a prick.
F#CK cheney
he's a piece of shit that needs to be
swept in a pile with the rest of the crap.
The surge is working...Ooooo-RAH!!! Oh really... is it? How can anyone be sure since the only source on it we're being exposed to is the same administration who has been lying its ass off on EVERTHING for 8 goddamned years... Should we rely on the U.S. MSM to give us the truth? An MSM who have clearly been cheerleaders for this bullshit until very recently and still does more cheering than hard question asking.... A media that in doing so, now has its own credibility in the shitter right along with all three branches of our government.. (Another present from the Bush administration who has given us all so many to date.. from wars of agression started on lies, massaged intel and just plain old Goebbels style propaganda to the raping of our national treasury in service to a braindead selfish ideology and plain old greed amounting to class war that I personally detest with a verngence!) So the question remains, are we getting anything of substance done with this surge shit? Really? Or are we just continuing to fritter away lives pointlessly and push the insurgents from point A. to point B. where the killing and generalized violence just continues per usual....
And, if we are suddenly doing such a bangup job,then why the hell do the Iraqies want us to get the hell out?? Huh? Anyone got an answer to that... And while you're spinning your way thru that answer please do enlighten me as to why it is that the sovereign government of Iraq is being told by the sovereign government of the United States how to run its own nation?? What the fuck is that all about??? I mean besides us being a fucking international bully because we want to get at its oil..Like some hormone crazed 15 year old boy trying to get at the neighbor girls naughty bits... It's fucking sick and detrimental to the concept of sovereignty itself! Not to mention continuing to trash the U.S. international reputation....We are slowly becoming the posterchild for rogue nations... And here's the other shoe dropping on that shit! Basically if we can ignore some nations sovereignty cause we got a bigger army then they have, then whats to stop someone from pulling the same shit on us??? WHAT exactly????
I mean seriously folks, China already owns most of our war debt.. What if those old fucks in Mao suits decide the only fiscally prudent thing to do to ensure they get paid back is to take us over militarily, what's to stop them?? We've already set the precident, we've already shit on the concept of sovereignty, so wheres the hesitation to invade us to come from?? Our stretched to the breaking point military?? A promise of nuclear response and mutually assured destruction...the old m.a.d concept?? Here's a newsflash that should surprise noone! Some folks, too many accually, don't mind that idea... In fact the Christo-fascists in this nation would welcome it, thinking in their myopic pinhead way that it's the second coming or some such shit.. Annnd, SOME people who ought to know better, actually think a nuke war can be waged and some kind of clear winner would emerge... and somehow the rest of the planet doesn't die off from radiation contamination... It's fucking INSANITY!!!
As to the actual information that the surge came not from military minds but political idiots in the wh??? Not the least bit surprised that yet another Bush statement from the past is proven to be another bald faced LIE!! BTW, ya all do know, Hitler thought Barbarrosa was a good idea way back 41 too.. I'm sure it was a Hitler 'instincts' moment. I'm certain he thought he was onto a big ol bright bulb idea... The German high command??? Not so much.. History has shown how that turned out..... This whole self made Iraq/middle east shitstorm could still go all sideways in a moment but Bush doesn't give a damn.. Why should he?... He's got it all over Hitler in that all he has to do is play the smoke and mirrors game till January, then dump the whole shitty diaper off on the next fucker.... and waltz away into off shore livin large neofascist thinktank consultant heaven.....With an assload of 'our' money in his pocket... Even though anyone with a functioning brain knows the motherfucker should be hung by the neck until dead for what he's done as president of this nation..........
Yea, I'm noting a lot comments to the effect that Americans are dumb as rocks and the truth is, yea, a lot are.. But NOT ALL, and those of us who ain't as stupid as a fence post are FUCKING MAD AS HELL over all this SHIT!!! Eight fucking years of this garbage and McCain and his little fascist fashion plate wants to give us at least four more... FUCKING DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!!!! I'm sick of this shit!!! Please Canada, Europe, some damned body please send a commando team to kidnap and arrest these sons-of-bitches now and drag their punk-asses off to the Hague to face real justice before they do some lame ass thing to fuck something else or someone elses country up yet again... No, really I'm begging the international community and/or the United Nations to stop standing on the sidelines laughing and jeering at us because we have a sizable minority of citizenry with the I.Q. of a turnip and help us out here.... We go down over all this?? That ain't where it ends.... Democracy? It ain't just a nice theoritical idea, and it is in serious danger now, worldwide, thanks to the efforts and schemes of George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and all the other usual suspects pining for a one world gub-mint based on the rich pushing everyone else around at the end of a christian bible and cattleprod .......JD
This to me, reiterates the VERY STRONG message, that we CANNOT have a president and vice president , just two individuals, that have SO MUCH UNCONTESTED POWER, that they can completely subvert the wishes, the opinions, and the needs of the people, a nation, even the ENTIRE world.
If the president or vp can mearily SIGN AWAY any laws that were established and worked for centuries, in secret, in the dark, with no consent, no reprocussions, then it can be so very easily and almost overnight, subverted into NO LONGER BEING the United States of America.
GWB, the president, ignored the warning signs, even went so far as to curtail many KEY, NECESSARY, and COMPULSIVE investigations of all our high tech, legal investigative resources, taxpayers pay so very well for, from DAY ONE and SINCE. Why?
BECAUSE HE SIMPLY CAN!
What was the result?
WE WERE ATTACKED. RIGHT HERE! THOUSANDS DIED!
Official policies were CHANGED, policies were IGNORED, and we had a DISASTER of BIBLICAL PROPORTIONS! Were GWB's LEGALIZED(?) actions helpfull or hurtfull to this nation? Did anything of all the policies he changed, to DOING IT HIS WAY, help us in ANY way?
GWB, the president, ignored EVERYBODY and all their VERY HIGHLY PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, and did ONLY, ....what HE FELT LIKE DOING!
Those "WERE" the actions of.....A DICTATOR!!!
Now we, and the rest of the world must pay, suffer, and die for it, for a very long time to come.
This nation DOES NOT NEED "MAVERICKS", nor "DICTATORS", nor ANY MORE WARS.
Only the NWO DOES!
It THRIVES on CHAOS.
It THRIVES on the DIVIDED.
It THRIVES on POLITICAL UPHEAVAL.
It THRIVES on the UNCONTROLLED ABUSES of entire FINANCIAL SYSTEMS.
It THRIVES during WARS.
It THRIVES on MEDIA CONTROL, PROPAGANDA, and ""LIES"".
It THRIVES on the CONTROL, OVER MAJOR KEY RESOURCES.
Does any of that look even vaguely familiar?
Why are there 600+ "NAZI" like, concentration camps, ALREADY BUILT, FULLY FUNCTIONING (WITH INCINERATORS), AND FULLY MANNED, at ALL OUR OWN EXPENSE? That is NOT "THEORY" FOLKS. That is FACT!
This world cannot stand to have ANOTHER "MAVERICK" in charge.
Or it will be, the end.
“I dissagree with what the majority of the American people want”
- John McCain -
I noticed the Sprint advert attached to this video, didn't they receive immunity from the same administration this video criticizes?
None of this makes no difference any longer. The election nears, the staging is being set with faux troop reductions and the MSM constant surge is working mantra is played over and over. It was the fault of our nation to allow this to happen in the first place.
The majority who wore flag pins and waved the flag wanted to call those of us who protested the invasion "anti-Americans". Now those same people are accepting a completely lame revisionist history of the outcome and McSame's charade that the "successful surge" has allowed us to "win" the war in Iraq.
But, we never went to war AGAINST Iraq, remember? There was never anyone there threatening us. That's why none of this matters now - it's too late. But I bet you when the next president is in office, we'll do it all over again.
RonDumsfeld @ 23:
Yep.
Fred Kagan.
He is the architect of the surge and a fellow at American Enterprise Institute.
He's the son of Donald Kagan, who is a fellow at the Hudson Institute, another think tank. Donald, Fred, and brother Robert Kagan are all PNAC signatories. In fact, Bob Kagan co-founded PNAC with Bill Kristol and is a fellow at the Aspen Study Group, Trilateral Commission, etc.
Oh, and Fred's wife Kimberly Kagan is a fellow at Center for Peace and Security Studies (CPASS) and a fellow at Harvard's Olin Institute for Strategic Studies.
This shouldn't be news to anybody.
We need not fear the retard in the White House or Old Man Face Cancer coming to power, we need fear what those mystery techniques of killing goat farmers in their beds for even thinking of bums rushing one of our forces.
As all military personnel do, these warriors will come home with this mentality and meld it in to our institutions, our police and "homeland security" forces, and our daily life.
Will we have to have our own de-Nazification process to clean these folks when they come a'home rooting out "un-American acts" with stealth nano bots trained to kill GWB haters?
The surge didn't work, it was a cover mission to hide the new intelligence gathering technique.
We now have aerial drones that can detect bomb materials, and therefore an attack can be planned to go in and take out the people before damage can be done.... The new attack method is working better, but the politicians had nothing to do with it!!!!
Woodward just another wacked out liberal loon who with out deep throat could'nt track a pollar bear in a phone booth during a snow storm. Truth is without a "deep throat" would'nt have caught one of the president's little girl's much less all the president's men.
Okay, this has nothing to do with the actual post, but if you let your mind wander, it looks as if the play button is an extension of his nose. And metaphorically, you can think of the play arrow as the direction its "growing" as the video goes on.
Is this a subtle play on Pinocchio's nose? Of course not, but I've been up 15 hours and my mind is losing it's ability to process coherent thoughts...
This is a piece of propaganda my friends to try and repair Bush's sagging Legacy. The idea that Rumsfeld would be let go without consulting with Cheney is ludicrous. Cheney is the man in charge if anyone is.
Look guys, regarding the surge: It had a small impact on stability in Iraq, but it need overtime (remember, the Defense Dept. said only a few months in '07 was needed for the surge, then Gen. Petraeus recommended the surge be extended in Sep. '07 for almost another full year) to have any affect. What Americans, particularly those on the right who are pro-war, along with a lot of mainstream journalists don't want to do is admit that anyone other than Gen. Petraeus and AMERICAN soldiers are responsible for the improved security situation in Iraq. Giving anyone but AMERICANS credit is unpatriotic to them, and that is wrong!
The cold-hard truth is that the young anti-American Shiite thug Muqtada al-Sadr and his Medhi army's year-long cease-fire, along with the Sunni Awakening councils' - much of whom are made up of former American-killing insurgents - decision before and during the Surge to work with American forces to capture/kill local criminals and AQI throughout Iraq, and Maliki's government cracking down on intra-Shiite violence (in southern Iraq) ALL led to an 80% reduction in violence over the past year. This is almost exactly what Obama said on COUNTDOWN the other night, and should be repeated on the campaign trail, the nightly news, and everywhere else because it's the truth, as much as some may be unwilling to believe.
OK, I need to be set straight on a few things:
1. "The Sunni Awakening" Apparently, this group of tribal elders agreed to stop fighting US Forces and to go after Al-Queda. This happened before the "surge" as much as I can figure. Now, were these elders paid off? And, are they still being paid off and if they weren't, would the casualty numbers go up again?
2. How can anyone talk of drawing down troops when there are many permanent bases being built in Iraq costing BILLIONS of dollars? It seems to me, the US is there to stay for good. (oil, of course and I guess to a lesser extent, Israel)
3. How will the Dems counter the spin that the right will use to say the the President was showing visionary leadership in advancing the idea of the surge? You know, showing who's boss, going over the head of the always timid Military brass.
The surge has not been a success. It has been the trap that I thought it would be last year. Sure more troops have reduced the violence, that was predictable, but then what? We still have more troops in Iraq than we had before the surge, and still will if Bush's announced cuts actually take place. Our generals are reluctant to pull them out in significant numbers fearing a return of violence. It's easy to send in more troops, but not so easy to bring them home again. Remember, the surge troops that have come home did so because there were no replacements available. Until our troops levels in Iraq fall below the 133,000 that were there before the surge, we can't talk about success.
Elie Wiesel @ 74:
A side note: "Kagan" sounds like "Cagan" which in Spanish translates to "They shit"
So Kagan boys sure did follow the Spanish name of their family name, and for sure they manage to defecate copiously all over us.
This is what happens when you leave military strategy on the hands of a bunch of fat fucks, whose only contact with the military has been via chronic masturbation while reading yet another paperback snoozefest by that idiot Tom Clancy.
US Investment In Terror And Deception
I have written about this very dynamic: The need for this administration to create a killing field in Iraq. There was no significant fighting Al Qaeda force in Iraq. The US was dealing with a civil war, and the only way they could quell the violence was to eliminate one of the civilian forces. This administration did two significant things to create their modern day killing field:
1. They launched a campaign to hype up Al Qaeda in Iraq. After making the claim that Al Qaeda only represented 2% of violence in the region, with the help of the media, they started attributing every shooting, kidnapping, and fire fight to America's number one enemy: Those bad boys who brought down the two towers. At one point, I did not think we were talking about the same Al Qaeda. However, keep in mind, there are no pictures of battles coming out of Iraq because there were none. No pictures and no WWII like battles to show we were "winning this thing."
2. I admit this is a week point, but I think Bob Woodward’s latest book eludes to it. There was some sort of special force killing campaign that scared the shit out of the insurgent leaders. This special project, along with the stop of our smart ass bomb killings that did everything they were made for and more stopped the violence in Iraq. They had to stop using the smart bomb technology because it not only hit their targets but everything around it. When American technology started killing innocent men, women and babies, they never reported this side affect concerning their smart ass weapons. I know if you kill my child, I am your next enemy, along with my brother, sister, father and dog.
The only way we will come close to learning about the facts concerning what we did to stop the violence in Iraq is to elect Barack Obama. The facts will stay hidden otherwise. John McCain might even celebrate with more killings. I can't bare to contemplate that reality.
Joseph
Dave @ 25:
Agreed. I know he's a sacred cow in some circles, but Woodward's meme over the last 10 or so years has been nothing but masterful political theater.
What gets me the most is everytime he shows up on TV bitching about Buscho with this FUCKING EXASPERATED LOOK ON HIS FACE.
And the forced shock in his voice. "It was unbelievable, Bob!"
..As if someone who's been covering DC for the last 35 years CAN'T BELIEVE that a Presidential Administration could be so sneaky and cunning.
...Umm, this is the guy who made his bones helping to take down Nixon, isn't it? Bush's regime (and his apologists) are filled to the brim with Nixon holders (the ones that DIDN'T go to jail...and no John Dean).
Honestly, something askew is going on in American government, and has been long before Woodward met some shadowy figure in a shadowy parking garage and named him after a blowjob technique.
Instead of being honest and giving us the REAL facts that he has the REAL access to, he wants to go theatrical and go John Clancy in his "nail-biting" political thrillers.
He used to be a trail-blazing journalist. Now he just wants to sell books.
earl @ 50:
Isn't Newspeak wonderful?
That is up there with "enhanced interrogation techniques."
BTW, wasn't this tool Woodward "deepthroating" literally Bush until recently? Not a couple of years ago this dumbass was gushing how "we were witnessing history because our feeble brains could not comprehend the genius of Boosh."
Tyler Durden @ 84:
Americans need to question who the hell asked these devils to use private think tanks and other extra-governmental institutions which make it possible for wealthy interest groups to bypass our Constitution.
Woodward has been complacent since Watergate and is no longer useful.
And as for the "secret weapon"? This might be it:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/what-is-the-secret-killing-weapon-in-iraq.html
Wonder how long it will take for Bu$h to realize the voices in his head don't have anything to do with this god... he's a coked out, alcoholic who can't string two coherent statements together to save his ass. As another poster noted with the link to Zinn... time for a revolution!
bushco has been playing the stenographer woodward for 7 years. did woodward let bushco edit the book?
Georgia Democrat @ 48:
I was curious about that too. But, for the record, Woodward clearly says it's not "technology", but "operational" tactics. Whatever that means.
Perhaps the military has started a DNA database or some kind of forensics/surveillance program similar to what the Stasi in east Germany had. Google it. It's fascinating stuff. I can't think of anything else at the moment. I'd be more than happy to do some brainstorming in the open thread tonight if you guys are interested. We can toss around some ideas and see where that gets us.
earl @ 50:
I was thinking the same thing. Is it possible that someone at the White House was feeding him some BS just so that Woodward will think he's privy to some important information and publish it in his book to further "glorify" Bush and the U.S. in general?
A discussion of Woodwards story is on wired.com here. Theorizes the new technique.
cj @ 65:
My thoughts exactly. I mentioned in an earlier post that Woodward appeared to verify everything Bill O'Reilly wanted to be said about the surge in his interview on Faux News Channel last night (that it worked, that we couldn't be where we are today without it, that anyone who supported it was a genius).
I'm afraid the most obvious conclusion is probably the correct one; Woodward tells each book-plugging venue audience what he thinks they want to hear in order to sell them his book.
However, his book says what his book says, no matter how much he may pander to a Faux News Channel audience or a 60 Minutes audience.
And his book does NOT say what Bill O'Reilly got Woodward to say it says last night.
Regarding the super secret program...
A couple of days before Woodward’s book pemiered, I saw this little tid-bit quietly reported on the net but as far as I know it got virtually no play in mainstream media:
High-resolution satellite launched in California
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080907/ap_on_hi_te/satellite_launch_3
Sat Sep 6, 11:41 PM ET
VANDENBERG AIR FORCE BASE, Calif. - A super-sharp Earth-imaging satellite that can detail an area the size of a baseball diamond's home plate from space has been launched into orbit from Vandenberg Air Force Base on the Central California coast.
A Delta 2 rocket carrying the GeoEye-1 satellite lifted off at 11:50 a.m. Saturday. Video on the GeoEye Web site showed the satellite separating from the rocket moments later on its way to an eventual polar orbit.
Arizona-based General Dynamics Advanced Information Systems, the satellite makers, say GeoEye-1 cost more than $500 million to build and launch.
The satellite will orbit 423 miles up and circle the Earth more than a dozen times a day. In a single day, it can collect color images of an area the size of New Mexico, or a black-and-white image the size of Texas.
In black-and-white mode, the satellite can distinguish objects on the Earth's surface as small as 16 inches, GeoEye Inc. said.
The company says the satellite's imaging services will be sold for uses that could range from environmental mapping to agriculture and defense.
------//----------//----------//---------
Now, it’s not too difficult to assume the military secretly launched a couple of these devices months before the launch of this non-military one was announced.
Spread a little cash around, get a handle on which neighborhood, which house or which front door is worth watching for a couple of weeks to see who comes and goes, what types of supplies are being carried in and out and...bingo. I have no inside info on this, but it I were a betting man...
Btw, Woodward was careful to acknowledge in interviews that this program had been in the works for a long time, not just during the Bush administration.
"Do you mean to say that this special capability is such an advance in military technique and technology that it reminds you of the advent of the tank and the airplane?" Pelley asked.
"Yeah," Woodward said. "If you were an al Qaeda leader or part of the insurgency in Iraq, or one of these renegade militias, and you knew about what they were able to do, you'd get your ass outta town."
Does anyone know what he's talking about here?
OK, beat me to it by one post!
Looks like someone gave Woodward the Smoke and Mirrors tour of Baghdad. He's so full of crap it's not even funny. I bet they showed him some tin-foil hats and told him they were a top secret weapon.
The Sunni Awakening has nothing to do with the permanent surge nor with Sunni objections to Al Qaeda. It's got to do with the fact that the Sunni's were taking a severe beating from the Shiite's and losing a civil war. They had no choice but to align themselves with U.S. interests and take our money as a bribe to stop fighting us. So guess what, we are now giving U.S. taxpayer money to members of Al Qaeda who decided to join some of the American backed militias. Sounds awfully familiar? Oh yeah, that's how both Osama and Saddam came to power in the first place. But, unless there is a legitimate reconciliation between Shiite and Sunni factions in the Iraqi government, then we're only making a bad situation even worse sometime in the future by arming the currently losing side that was just about to get ethnically cleansed.
right now...who cares about "the surge". You're helping Woodward make a couple sheckels
Anyone care that Obama is going to lose the election because McCain's camp threw a skank in from Alaska to take the white house.
“Yeah,” Woodward said. “If you were an al Qaeda leader or part of the insurgency in Iraq, or one of these renegade militias, and you knew about what they were able to do, you’d get your ass outta town.”
If Woodward's noble intention was to avoid doing harm to the effectiveness of this super secret new program/device/technology, then why in the world would he openly suggest the way for its target to dodge the bullet was to "get your ass outta town"? Weird.
I realize he might have been merely repeating a familiar colloquializm. But if it does have anything to do with a super-sharp Earth-imaging satellite like the one launched last week or any other breakthrough in surveillance techniques, shouldn't his preference be for the bad guys to stay put without a hint for how to defeat it? And if it has nothing to do with any of that, then what difference would it make if they stayed in town or not?
Either way, I guess he doesn't care that having bragging rights that he knows the super secret that is picking off al-Qaeda leaders one-by-one might carry a high price for himself and the people around him. uh...I don't think I'd be sharing a cab with Bob Woodward any time soon...
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