(Needless to say, voter registration is critical to helping the Democratic nominee win this election.)

In the 2004 US Presidential elections

217,767,000 were eligible to vote.
167,802,660 registered to vote (77% of eligible voters).
122,293,548 voted (56% of eligible voters; 73% of registered voters).

62,040,610 voted for Bush: 28% of eligible voters.
59,028,439 voted for Kerry: 27% of eligible voters.

95,473,452 eligible voters did not vote: 44% of eligible voters.

The 28% percenters CAN win if not enough of us vote!

Data from:
Dave Leip's Atlas of US Presidential Elections

McCain Backs Up Story Blaming His Computer Illiteracy on Vietnam
http://satiricalpolitical.com/?p=3157

How much do YOU love your country?

Great video!!

Tina Fey and Amy Poehler as Caribou Barbie and Hillary on SNL was not only funny, but the best representation of Palin's vapidness I've seen yet. And it ended by calling out the media to grow a pair in regards to questioning Palin.

This has the potential to really knock Palin down a few pegs, once it's shown on all the cable networks. You know Morning Joe will show it 10 times Monday.

Early voting starts October 18th in Nevada, check your malls.

JimboSlice @ 11:

Contrast the Obama get-out-the-vote campaign with John McCain's get-the-votes-out campaign where he is intentionally mailing fradulant absentee ballot applications to lower-income african american neighborhoods in Ohio with the intent to disenfranchise blacks. I think there might be civil rights complaints to come out of this one:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080911/NEWS0108/...

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/nearly-600000-subject-to-possible-caging-in-ohio/

I live in rural Virginia.

A couple of weeks ago I received a robo-call in my voice mail: John McCain himself (!) contacting me to inform me he'd be sending me an absentee ballot application.

Huh???

A coupla of days ago it arrived.

So yesterday I called my county registrar and asked for an absentee ballot application.

Just got it today.

The two forms are completely different.

This should get interesting ...

VegasRage @ 13:

In office, Palin hired friends and hit critics
Interviews indicate a governing style that uses loyalty and secrecy

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018/

Imagine that, a female version of Bush, "God help us 2"

I saw this....scares the crap out of me. That woman is evil, and she will destroy this country if elected.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 1:

vid from the women against palin rally in anchorage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNlcYaEOLRM

pic from the welcome sarah palin rally in anchorage...the hall holds 5k

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/palin-rally-3.jpg

what...me worry?

Well, I pretty much expected a homerun for Kerry because of Bush's disasters but alas it didn't happen. Make sure to actually work harder this time.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 1:

vid from the women against palin rally in anchorage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNlcYaEOLRM

pic from the welcome sarah palin rally in anchorage...the hall holds 5k

http://mudflats.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/palin-rally-3.jpg

what...me worry?

McCain campaign is also lying about the size of their crowds.
McSleaze reported 23,000 at a Fairfax rally....try 8,000.

I just got an email about Sarah Palin.

It turns out the real Sarah Palin died in North Korea in 1954. Whoever this woman is, she is not Sarah Palin. This woman stole the late Sarah Palin's dog tags.

Also, Jimmy Barrett goes home and laughs at Sarah Palin every night.

VegasRage @ 13:

In office, Palin hired friends and hit critics
Interviews indicate a governing style that uses loyalty and secrecy

www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26691018/

Imagine that, a female version of Bush, "God help us 2"

the times goes really indepth

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?pagewanted=1&...

this woman is bush and cheney rolled into one

note...gibson did not have any of this info when he went into that interview

no wonder they chose abc and gibson

and it also shows that not one news org in alaska cared enough to do their jobs

guess 30 years of corruption will do that to ya

MountainMan23 @ 12:

JimboSlice @ 11:

Contrast the Obama get-out-the-vote campaign with John McCain's get-the-votes-out campaign where he is intentionally mailing fradulant absentee ballot applications to lower-income african american neighborhoods in Ohio with the intent to disenfranchise blacks. I think there might be civil rights complaints to come out of this one:

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080911/NEWS0108/...

http://tpzoo.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/nearly-600000-subject-to-possible-caging-in-ohio/

I live in rural Virginia.

A couple of weeks ago I received a robo-call in my voice mail: John McCain himself (!) contacting me to inform me he'd be sending me an absentee ballot application.

Huh???

A coupla of days ago it arrived.

So yesterday I called my county registrar and asked for an absentee ballot application.

Just got it today.

The two forms are completely different.

This should get interesting ...

I've been warning people about this. Please, if you receive these from anyone associated with GOP or McCains campaign, verify it through your local democratic office. Tell your friends, neighbors and relatives. Notify your media. There have been over a million of these things mailed out to democrats and independants.

I'm already registered & my Teepee (not my cave, they're in short supply on the plains) is camped near the polling place.

A friend of mine (another SF buff) describes Sarah Palin as Nehemiah Scudder in a skirt. If you don't know the ref, get out your old Heinlien future histories (the ones about the American Ayatollahs) & do some reading.

Karen @ 25:

. . . David Pfouffe actually invented the internet.

Er . . . uh . . . Plouffe, right? With an l, an light, lamp, little and loopy, right?

Though I admit that pronouncing it "foof" makes it funnier and more child-like. :)

Er . . . uh . . . "as in" light, lamp etc. ;)

Peter G @ 21 Ha! That's brilliant, Peter!

of course republicans aint racists

http://images.politico.com/global/waffe2.jpg

eff all these sick fucks

this is from the "values" forum

Sr Cluba @ 20:

I just got an email about Sarah Palin.

It turns out the real Sarah Palin died in North Korea in 1954. Whoever this woman is, she is not Sarah Palin. This woman stole the late Sarah Palin's dog tags.

Also, Jimmy Barrett goes home and laughs at Sarah Palin every night.

its funny but historicaly inacurate the korean war ended in may of 53,

From Politico:

“'If we had done what I asked Sen. Obama to do, because I’ve been in a lot of other campaigns where I have appeared with the opposition with the people and listened to their hopes and dreams and aspirations, I don't think you’d see the tenor of this campaign,' he said.

That’s the candidate’s public answer — and one that a former adviser suggested that McCain may have convinced himself to believe is true.

Current campaign aides and other Republicans who’ve closely watched the race, however, have a very different response to the media elites and good-government scolds: We don’t care what you think.

McCain seems to have made a choice that many politicians succumb to but that he had always promised to avoid — he appears ready to do whatever it takes to win, even it if soils his reputation.”

You know for all my interest in the process, voting to me is like participating in organized crime. I want to do it, but my conscious won't let me.

Sorry, I was raised right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nMuR1TFq1s - SNL opening with Fey as Palin

um...so here's my dumb question...i live in Texas and will vote Obama/Biden, but does it even matter to volunteer here or should i try and get w/a swing state??

Karen @ 39:

Filthy Harry @ 38:

You know for all my interest in the process, voting to me is like participating in organized crime. I want to do it, but my conscious won't let me.

Sorry, I was raised right.

That's like refusing to take your children to the doctor because you don't want to participate in any way in the corrupt medical and pharmaceutical industries. You might have principals, but they lead to malignant neglect.

No, its not like that at all. Going to the doctor to save my sick child brings ME an immediate positive benefit that I'd be remiss to forgo and is beyond moral social issues. Truly our country operates as a big mafia, and to vote would make me feel dirty and culpable.

Frankly to be honest, after the last 7 years, and ESPECIALLY after the last year and even more so after Obama voted for the FISA bill I realized that there is no point. Its a question of quick death or slow death, our country is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU.

Gosh, bad news for the Bushies.

Iraq Rejects No-Bid Contracts

Bye-bye Western oil contractors.

Filthy Harry @ 44:

Karen @ 39:

Filthy Harry @ 38:

You know for all my interest in the process, voting to me is like participating in organized crime. I want to do it, but my conscious won't let me.

Sorry, I was raised right.

That's like refusing to take your children to the doctor because you don't want to participate in any way in the corrupt medical and pharmaceutical industries. You might have principals, but they lead to malignant neglect.

No, its not like that at all. Going to the doctor to save my sick child brings ME an immediate positive benefit

The fact so many people think like that, and have thought like that is what has gotten us to this point. Our dereliction of civic duties in this once-democratic republic is what has allowed the corrupt figures to take over. It happened in Chile too. People simply saw no point in voting. So they quit. And got Pinochet.

If you can't see the analogy, and if your argument is really that voting brings no immediate benefit directly to you that you can feel, you are part of the problem.

Frankly to be honest, after the last 7 years, and ESPECIALLY after the last year and even more so after Obama voted for the FISA bill I realized that there is no point. Its a question of quick death or slow death, our country is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU.

You can go gentle into that good night if you'd like, but such a surrender is what should make you feel dirty.

Those corrupt people you decry? They count on your attitude. So, thanks for dooming us all.

I'll be raging against the dying of the light. I'll also have an escape plan if the shit really hits the fan. And the likes of you won't be welcome on my boat/plane/other means out of here.

Ron @ 47:

Filthy Harry @ 44:

Karen @ 39:

Filthy Harry @ 38:

That's like refusing to take your children to the doctor because you don't want to participate in any way in the corrupt medical and pharmaceutical industries. You might have principals, but they lead to malignant neglect.

No, its not like that at all. Going to the doctor to save my sick child brings ME an immediate positive benefit that I'd be remiss to forgo and is beyond moral social issues. Truly our country operates as a big mafia, and to vote would make me feel dirty and culpable.

Frankly to be honest, after the last 7 years, and ESPECIALLY after the last year and even more so after Obama voted for the FISA bill I realized that there is no point. Its a question of quick death or slow death, our country is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Wait a minute, please don't. Sorry to the rest of you, I wasn't thinking. People like filthy make me sick. If you feel so worthless filthy, why don't you just bury your head in the sand. The world can do without you.

Who said I feel worthless? My point is I feel too moral to participate in what is effectively organized crime. As long as people vote, the system endures. Its not the non-voters that make things bad, its the voters that help perpetuate it. As long as people participate in an inherently corrupt system, it will continue.

Filthy Harry @ 50:

Ron @ 47:

Filthy Harry @ 44:

Karen @ 39:

No, its not like that at all. Going to the doctor to save my sick child brings ME an immediate positive benefit that I'd be remiss to forgo and is beyond moral social issues. Truly our country operates as a big mafia, and to vote would make me feel dirty and culpable.

Frankly to be honest, after the last 7 years, and ESPECIALLY after the last year and even more so after Obama voted for the FISA bill I realized that there is no point. Its a question of quick death or slow death, our country is doomed, DOOMED I TELL YOU.

Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Wait a minute, please don't. Sorry to the rest of you, I wasn't thinking. People like filthy make me sick. If you feel so worthless filthy, why don't you just bury your head in the sand. The world can do without you.

Who said I feel worthless? My point is I feel too moral to participate in what is effectively organized crime. As long as people vote, the system endures. Its not the non-voters that make things bad, its the voters that help perpetuate it. As long as people participate in an inherently corrupt system, it will continue.

I repeat worthless. You aren't going to fix it by ignoring it and not trying to do anything about it.

I think we all should vote but vote responsible.

As some have asked of the hypocrite republicans:

What would those republican/evangelicals said if Barack Obama named a VP female who had a 17 year old daughter who was not married and pregnant?

Filthy Harry @ 38:

You know for all my interest in the process, voting to me is like participating in organized crime. I want to do it, but my conscious won't let me.

Sorry, I was raised right.

totally understand to me they don't want us to vote........think about it. they lie to us....they try to get us not to vote and/or they don't count our votes.....you have to pick your medicine.....you can't win if you don't play....it's not black and white ........i'm sure you know that.....we can make some major changes.. the time is right.
the elites and super wealthy/corporations revealed what they are all about......separating people from their money/lives. it's out of
balance the wage gap is too wide and a serious problem.

I'd just like to say one thing. I cannot abide the outright lying (great word) the McCane/Failin' Palin campaign has been spewing. Enough!

Filthy Harry @ 61:

Ron @ 52:

Filthy Harry @ 50:

Ron @ 47:

Who said I feel worthless? My point is I feel too moral to participate in what is effectively organized crime. As long as people vote, the system endures. Its not the non-voters that make things bad, its the voters that help perpetuate it. As long as people participate in an inherently corrupt system, it will continue.

I repeat worthless. You aren't going to fix it by ignoring it and not trying to do anything about it.

See how well they've got you trained? You automatically assume that there is NO course of action one can take other than the one proscribed by the criminals in charge. Who said I'm ignoring the situation? Who said I'm doing nothing about it.

What are you doing about it?

I think there are things we can do to help get our man elected. I think that anybody who sees inklings of voter fraud should start sending emails to the news organizations until one of them finally picks it up. The Virginia story above is the third one I've heard about. Let's start writing to the networks. Give them some story ideas. Push them.

I think we can also write letters to the editor of our newspapers or go to neutral websites - like YouTube - and stump for Obama. Don't get angry. Try to educate the dumbfucks who support McCain and Palin. Every person we can pursuade counts! I just typed in Palin and found a conversation and joined in. It's amazing how ignorant so many people are and how much damage the smears on Obama have done. I think the worst damage was actually done during the primary campaign.

Send $$ to the Obama campaign or to Moveon or to dems - choose your organization. So they can get their ads on in the crucial states.

Volunteer at your dem headquarters. It's fun!

Go Obama!

Karen @ 62:

Filthy Harry @ 61:

Ron @ 52:

Filthy Harry @ 50:
I repeat worthless. You aren't going to fix it by ignoring it and not trying to do anything about it.

See how well they've got you trained? You automatically assume that there is NO course of action one can take other than the one proscribed by the criminals in charge. Who said I'm ignoring the situation? Who said I'm doing nothing about it.

What are you doing about it?

That is entirely my business, whats important is to note that people are trained to think there is only one way to do something about it, and when presented with the possibility that there are other ways, draw a blank.

Harry, not voting IS doing nothing.

Ron @ 69:

Filthy Harry @ 67:

Ron @ 63:

Filthy Harry @ 61:
You did.

Quote me where I said I'm doing nothing.

In so many words.

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

StirFry @ 45:

Palin is starting to look like a serial-liar:

Palin says Alaska supplies 20 percent of U.S. energy. WRONG. Try 2.4 percent

Is she speaking in tongues? WTF!?!?!?!

You can't possibly be right about that StirFry. She's the top energy expert in the U.S. I have that on the most ancient of authority. You're letting facts blind you to the narrative.

Filthy Harry @ 66:

Karen @ 62:

Filthy Harry @ 61:

Ron @ 52:

See how well they've got you trained? You automatically assume that there is NO course of action one can take other than the one proscribed by the criminals in charge. Who said I'm ignoring the situation? Who said I'm doing nothing about it.

What are you doing about it?

That is entirely my business, whats important is to note that people are trained to think there is only one way to do something about it, and when presented with the possibility that there are other ways, draw a blank.

I see. You're doing something. You just won't share it with us. You'd like for all of us programed idiots to do something other than voting, and you're upset when we can't think of anything else to do -- something you've wrongly inferred -- but you won't share with us what can actually be done.

I ask for the example of what you're doing, and you're the one coming up blank.

Filthy Harry @ 65:

Karen @ 55:

Filthy Harry @ 51

Refusing to participate in an organized criminal enterprise is not surrender. Its the first step in revolution.

Explain to me how sitting out an election leads to revolution. Elaborate. Show us how that works.

The corrupt people I decry count on YOUR attitude. Participate in the system they define, and they’ll be happy no matter the outcome.

Sing with Filthy Harry -- Life Is A Cabaret, Old Chum!

I will explain it thusly: Your assumption that sitting out an election equates doing nothing is wrong. The fact that you automatically equate the two indicates how well you've been trained to think the way they want you to think, specifically, 'you may hold any opinion you like but the end-all and be-all action you can take is voting. Remember, voting is the system they've set up for you to bring about change. It should then be summarily dismissed as an effective medium of change. You want proof? I give the last 225+ years of American history.

You explained nothing. I asked for an explanation of HOW sitting out an election leads to revolution. You chose not to explain that, and instead said that I believed that voting was the only thing you can do to bring about change. I don't believe that for a minute, but you're putting words into my mouth.

Tell me, what do you think will happen if everyone decides not to vote anymore? What comes next?

As for the last 225 years of American history, if you think NOTHING has changed due to civic action and voting, you're blind. Things change slowly, but frankly, I can't think of any other country in the world that has gone from black slaves and subordinate women to black senators and women with a shot at the presidency in ONLY 225 years.

By the way, you never asked me what else I believed we could be doing -- or Ron for that matter -- so don't accuse us of coming up blank to a question never asked.

Ron @ 73:

Filthy Harry @ 70:

Ron @ 69:

Filthy Harry @ 67:
In so many words.

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

Okay, enlighten me. Maybe I will decide to participate.

It's a secret.

Filthy Harry @ 71:

Ali @ 68:

Harry, not voting IS doing nothing.

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

I can imagine lots of other options, most are pointless, many are illegal. If you want to remain the "man of mystery" help yourself. Just stop killing the buzz.

Ron @ 73:

Filthy Harry @ 70:

Ron @ 69:

Filthy Harry @ 67:
In so many words.

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

Okay, enlighten me. Maybe I will decide to participate.

Sorry, if you can only see the option offered as the only option then you wouldn't believe what I have to say.

Filthy Harry @ 80:

Ron @ 73:

Filthy Harry @ 70:

Ron @ 69:

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

Okay, enlighten me. Maybe I will decide to participate.

Sorry, if you can only see the option offered as the only option then you wouldn't believe what I have to say.

I was at that point three of your posts back.

Filthy Harry @ 80:

Ron @ 73:

Filthy Harry @ 70:

Ron @ 69:

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

Okay, enlighten me. Maybe I will decide to participate.

Sorry, if you can only see the option offered as the only option then you wouldn't believe what I have to say.

Hey everyone, Filthy is full of shit. He doesn't have another option or he would let us in on it.

Filthy Harry @ 83:

Peter G @ 78:

Filthy Harry @ 71:

Ali @ 68:

Just because YOU cannot imagine other courses of action does not mean they do not exist.

I can imagine lots of other options, most are pointless, many are illegal. If you want to remain the "man of mystery" help yourself. Just stop killing the buzz.

Let us then for the sake of argument remove from the table the illegal and pointless options. We are left then from your perspective only the officially offered way of participating. I do not agree.

As I said in my original post, its like asking me who do I want to be the head of the mafia. There are other FAR more effective means of effecting change that are neither illegal or pointless.

Simple question. What are they? If you've got something new to tell us you're more than welcome. Frankly I'd really like to see some new ideas. Right now we're just burning up somebody else's bandwidth to no good point.

I'm still waiting on those apparently non-existent ways to effect change.

And the whole 'choosing a lesser evil is still choosing evil' flawed arguments are a problem when the SCOTUS is figured in.

The SCOTUS alone makes a huge difference in the candidates, regardless of how corrupt anyone believes they both are. An asshole in the Oval Office can be swept out in time but a stacked, ultra conservative (possibly evangelical leaning) SCOTUS could cause negative changes that would be hard to reverse in most of our lifetimes.

Ron @ 84:

Filthy Harry @ 80:

Ron @ 73:

Filthy Harry @ 70:
Okay, enlighten me. Maybe I will decide to participate.

Sorry, if you can only see the option offered as the only option then you wouldn't believe what I have to say.

Hey everyone, Filthy is full of shit. He doesn't have another option or he would let us in on it.

Ooh. I wasn't going to tell but your cunning reverse psychology has tricked me!

As I said, the fact that you are unable to accept that another option exists means there is no point in telling you.

Gregory @ 75:
the media wants a popularity contest, so that lies won't matter. Only spin.

Filthy Harry @ 87:

constituent @ 81:

Filthy Harry @ 67:

Ron @ 63:

Quote me where I said I'm doing nothing.

easy does it filthy........let us in on your strategy.there's always going to be elites that have the most control but not complete control. vote for who you wish......i don't believe the past is the future. obama is telling us he knows what's going on he can't change that's what people don't understand.
obama...wants to help people help ........themselves. why do you
think there is so much opposition to obama he is LESS bought. where as mccain has a revolving door to lobbyist.

Yes, Obama is the better candidate within the system. (d'uh) My point is that the system itself is inherently flawed and so no real solution can take place within the parameters defined by the system. There is no need to describe my strategies to people who are incapable of seeing anything outside the proscribed system as being anything but 'illegal' or 'pointless' even though they are not.

As I said, if you're in the mafia and you want to go legit, voting for a new crime boss isn't going to help, because he's as constrained by the system as anyone else is, until you walk away.

Stop accusing us of not being able to see other options.

Don't say, "I'm not gonna tell you because you wouldn't understand."

Filthy Harry @ 87:

constituent @ 81:

Filthy Harry @ 67:

Ron @ 63:

Quote me where I said I'm doing nothing.

easy does it filthy........let us in on your strategy.there's always going to be elites that have the most control but not complete control. vote for who you wish......i don't believe the past is the future. obama is telling us he knows what's going on he can't change that's what people don't understand.
obama...wants to help people help ........themselves. why do you
think there is so much opposition to obama he is LESS bought. where as mccain has a revolving door to lobbyist.

Yes, Obama is the better candidate within the system. (d'uh) My point is that the system itself is inherently flawed and so no real solution can take place within the parameters defined by the system. There is no need to describe my strategies to people who are incapable of seeing anything outside the proscribed system as being anything but 'illegal' or 'pointless' even though they are not.

As I said, if you're in the mafia and you want to go legit, voting for a new crime boss isn't going to help, because he's as constrained by the system as anyone else is, until you walk away.

you reduce/regulate some of the influence money has in capitol hill
is a good place to start. the elites don't want us to have a universal
healthcare system so smear obama's healthcare proposal as some
'expensive social government system'.......total deception and propoganda....a more affordable large paying pool system could have a huge positive impact on peoples lives

Peter G @ 86:

Filthy Harry @ 83:

Peter G @ 78:

Filthy Harry @ 71:
I can imagine lots of other options, most are pointless, many are illegal. If you want to remain the "man of mystery" help yourself. Just stop killing the buzz.

Let us then for the sake of argument remove from the table the illegal and pointless options. We are left then from your perspective only the officially offered way of participating. I do not agree.

As I said in my original post, its like asking me who do I want to be the head of the mafia. There are other FAR more effective means of effecting change that are neither illegal or pointless.

Simple question. What are they? If you've got something new to tell us you're more than welcome. Frankly I'd really like to see some new ideas. Right now we're just burning up somebody else's bandwidth to no good point.

For me the point is I enjoy the electoral process the way some people enjoy Jerry Springer. It's purely an intellectual (albiet a low one) diversion for me.

And again, the idea is that without being able to even imagine that effective ways to promote cultural and sociological change in healthy positive might exist, (which is the main thrust of the arguments against me, no? It's 'vote' or 'surrender') nothing I say would be believed or accepted.

Ok, not surrendering, but can't stay up all night arguing. cya.

Filthy Harry @ 98:

Peter G @ 86:

Filthy Harry @ 83:

Peter G @ 78:

Let us then for the sake of argument remove from the table the illegal and pointless options. We are left then from your perspective only the officially offered way of participating. I do not agree.

As I said in my original post, its like asking me who do I want to be the head of the mafia. There are other FAR more effective means of effecting change that are neither illegal or pointless.

Simple question. What are they? If you've got something new to tell us you're more than welcome. Frankly I'd really like to see some new ideas. Right now we're just burning up somebody else's bandwidth to no good point.

For me the point is I enjoy the electoral process the way some people enjoy Jerry Springer. It's purely an intellectual (albiet a low one) diversion for me.

And again, the idea is that without being able to even imagine that effective ways to promote cultural and sociological change in healthy positive might exist, (which is the main thrust of the arguments against me, no? It's 'vote' or 'surrender') nothing I say would be believed or accepted.

No, the argument against you is that voting is still necessary, and that not voting makes things worse. When we ask you to elaborate on SUBSTITUTE means, we're not being rhetorical. But you refuse to answer.

Ok, not surrendering, but can't stay up all night arguing. cya.

Not surrendering. Just quitting. How appropriate.

Karen @ 99:

Peter G @ 95:

People, the Filthy Harry discussion is pointless. Can we move on.

I do think such positions need to be countered, my esteemed Peter G. They have a certain ring of validity to the frustrated, and can provide the rationalization yearned for by those who feel guilty about their apathy.

I suffer no delusions of grandeur. I don't think I'm influencing a ton of people by posting to C&L. But hey, if there are those in the "audience" who figure out that Filthy Harry is full of shit because we countered him, all the better. :)

At this point though, you're probably right. He's adding nothing to his earlier responses, and that's what I'd like people to see.

I agree with you. I enjoy arguing best with people whose opinions are most at odds with my own. It helps you clarify your own thoughts. In this case it became pretty apparent that we we're all trying to argue with a brick wall.

Roark77 - No POTUS = No SCOTUS @ 101:

Karen, he's a concern troll that is pulling out the playground mantra of "I know but I'm not telling" because he got caught up in a lie. I'm betting he goes and gets his McSame points for posting on C&L before he goes to bed.

Perhaps. I've seen his moniker here before, and if memory serves, not always trolling. But then, anyone who implores us not to vote, well, that would be what the Republicans would tell us. :)

Frankly I wanted to hear his points and was hoping he'd say something about the SCOTUS since that tends to damage the 'lesser evil' argument.

I actually wanted to hear him out. It would have been interesting to hear a well-argued case for why voting makes things worse and not voting makes them better.

But to resort to, "I'm not telling you because you won't believe me or accept my arguments" is quite possibly the most glaring way to say, "I'm full of shit," next to, of course, actually typing, "I'm full of shit."

Yeah -- You and Whose Army?
Paul Reiser, 09.12.2008

All the crap being thrown at Obama -- the fear-mongering, the half-truths, the full lies -- all the character assassination hurling Obama's way, is in fact, his own doing.

Actually Karen, they wouldn't tell us not to vote. They'd find new ways to disenfranchise us and keep us from voting. There seems to be a lot of that going around right now.

why i despise bill maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Try1Aedcbto&feature=related

at the end of this segment, garafolo nails fund on the fact that he lied in his column about the dnc and obama dropping in a mini army into alaska....fund attempts to ignore the statement

maher gets them to move on

fund has no fucking cred...he is a straght out hack...and maher wont allow that to be shown on his show

fuck you bill

i'm frustrated/disappointed that people put so much emphasis on voting on perceived culture/values.....the culture wars. people are afraid to challenge their perceived culture regarding an issue. i guess i'll have to accept people are lazy and can be foolish.
maybe i'm wrong it just seems to be marketing.....with the use of manipulation and deception. i try to talk to republicans some have their own self-deception going on so terrified to side with a liberal.
what would the culture club say?

Roark77 - No POTUS = No SCOTUS @ 108:

Actually Karen, they wouldn't tell us not to vote. They'd find new ways to disenfranchise us and keep us from voting. There seems to be a lot of that going around right now.

Disenfranchisement of the sort they pull is as American as apple pie. It's been going on since before the Constitution was ratified.

For a more intellectual discussion, didja know that the Constitution explicitly confers the right to vote upon NO ONE?!

As for whether they'd tell us not to vote . . . Sure they would. :)

Gotta run. GNA

Karen @ 85:

Gregory @ 75:

The press labeled it the "Dream Ticket" for a reason.

Because the press would just love to have that story. Both an African American and a woman on the same ticket. It's juicy. It allows them to talk about how far we've come AND to put up all the racists and misogynists together on the same shows to prove how far we haven't come. The fact that the woman would have been Hillary Clinton would only excite them more. The press loves to plaster the dirt on the Clintons all over its walls.

And who would be controlling the message in that scenario? I don't remember the last time I heard Biden's name even mentioned on TV, except as an afterthought. At least with Clinton, the Dems would have been holding the ball, not just reacting all the time.

McCain would have been lucky to ever get within 10 points in the polls.

Luck would have nothing to do with it. They'd smear them both. They'd make shit up that we would never see coming. It would work, and we'd scratch our heads.

Palin would have been no match for the shit Clinton could have come up with on her own. We all saw what she was doing to Obama. The Clintons are practically Republicans the way they trash talk an opponent. That's why they won twice before.

The fact is that Obama took a huge risk in NOT selecting Clinton.

There were risks entailed in not picking her as well. Moreover, you don't even know she would have accepted.

The bigger risk was in NOT picking her. It was an unnecessary risk. And give me a break: OF COURSE she would have accepted. Who ever turned down the VeeP offer? Clinton was practically groveling for it when she refused to concede even after Obama became the presumptive nominee.

Now that McCain has been making some inroads, the cries of "I told you so" inevitably spew from the advocates of what didn't happen. Here's one counterfactual I would guarantee: If Sen. Clinton had won, and McCain's smears and lies were working on her, all the Obama people would be saying, "I told you so" too.

That's missing the point. The Dems needed to work together on this one, and instead, Obama let his own personal issues with Clinton obscure what should have been his primary goal: winning.

The fact is: McCain's move puts the entire presidency in jeopardy ONLY BECAUSE OBAMA LEFT THE DOOR WIDE OPEN. This points to a few problems with Obama:

1. Hubris. Obama thought he had the election sewn up, and he took the luxury of making what seemed to be a safe choice. Looked great in front of 80,000 fans in Denver, only to be KO'd from the news cycle with one punch.

Had Clinton been his VeeP, McCain still would have chosen Palin, and even if he didn't, his pick would still command the news cycles. Obama has a sense of the inevitable in politics. I think he's faltered a bit in the last few days, but, hey, so did
Gov. Bill Clinton. Many times in the campaign. It ain't over.

I hope you're right. But a Palin pick AFTER a Clinton pick would have been so much weaker for McCain. "Me too!" Palin would have been the top story simply because nobody knows anything about her, but it would have smacked much more resoundingly of desperation. Instead, to Republicans, it looks inspired.

2. Weakness. Was he worried that somehow the Clintons would undermine his ability to be the "decider?" By not selecting Hillary and cementing those 18 million votes on the Democratic side, Obama FORCED John McCain to select a female running mate. We should have seen the Palin pick coming from a mile away. It was the only thing McCain could do. Ask ANY Republican.

We can't corner the Republicans on the campaign. Because they're willing and able to break down the walls the corner is made of. No matter who gets hurt in the process. If they have to blow shit up to do it, that's what they'll do. Even if they kill someone. They had moves ready had Clinton been the pick, and once those moves worked and befuddled us, others would scream, "See! He shouldn't have picked Clinton!"

Clinton would strike back. Right now, it's like Obama's in this thing on his own. Biden's a media ghost.

3. Poor judgment. Make it a landslide victory for the Democrats, or let McCain fire up his base and steal the gender voters? Obama decided to risk it, and now his odds of becoming our next president are diminishing by the day. See www.intrade.com for evidence of this.

It was always going to be close. Always. There's still time. A lot of time in the world of politics.

Seven weeks to go. McCain has been kicking Obama's ass for the past two weeks in terms of media exposure. I have no doubt that Palin will look like an idiot in the VeeP debate, but again, that doesn't matter. All that matters at this point is controlling the news cycle. Do that, and game over.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 110:

why i despise bill maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Try1Aedcbto&feature=related

at the end of this segment, garafolo nails fund on the fact that he lied in his column about the dnc and obama dropping in a mini army into alaska....fund attempts to ignore the statement

maher gets them to move on

fund has no fucking cred...he is a straght out hack...and maher wont allow that to be shown on his show

fuck you bill

Bill sucks as usual. Garofalo knows what she's talking about (@ 7:10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tv82Gwo7i0

Gregory @ 118

And who would be controlling the message in that scenario? I don’t remember the last time I heard Biden’s name even mentioned on TV, except as an afterthought. At least with Clinton, the Dems would have been holding the ball, not just reacting all the time.

To think that we would necessarily be controlling the message at this point is to underestimate the Republicans and their media.

Palin would have been no match for the shit Clinton could have come up with on her own.

Again, you underestimate the Republicans.

We all saw what she was doing to Obama. The Clintons are practically Republicans the way they trash talk an opponent. That’s why they won twice before

They LOST when they figured out how to trash an opponent like Republicans. They WON in the same way Obama won the primaries. Telling a better story, focusing on a simple message relentlessly, and using rapid response to every smear against him.

The bigger risk was in NOT picking her. It was an unnecessary risk. And give me a break: OF COURSE she would have accepted. Who ever turned down the VeeP offer? Clinton was practically groveling for it when she refused to concede even after Obama became the presumptive nominee.

bluegal makes a case for how negotiations between the Obama and Clinton camps could easily have broken down, and how they could have agreed that their campaign staffs and styles couldn't get along well enough to campaign together. They might have all mutually decided that however smart their union was on paper, that it might ultimately have undermined the party.

That’s missing the point. The Dems needed to work together on this one, and instead, Obama let his own personal issues with Clinton obscure what should have been his primary goal: winning.

You just don't know that. You don't know what happened behind the scenes.

Moreover, you're missing my point, which is that all the woulda-shoulda-couldas get in the way of moving forward. It's too easy to think, "Oh, if only we had made this other move, the whole course of the campaign would have changed." We don't know that, and we can't get caught up in it.

It's similar to the kind of sportscasting that happens when an athlete makes an error in a game. "Oh, if only he hadn't made that error, his team would have won." Impossible to know. If that play had been made, the opposing team's next play would have been different. And we have no idea how things would have gone from there.

I hope you’re right. But a Palin pick AFTER a Clinton pick would have been so much weaker for McCain. “Me too!” Palin would have been the top story simply because nobody knows anything about her, but it would have smacked much more resoundingly of desperation. Instead, to Republicans, it looks inspired.

They have a very loud noise machine. Had they picked Palin, they could still have made it inspired. Do not underestimate them. That is always the real Democratic mistake. That's the one Bill Clinton did not make in the 90s.

Clinton would strike back. Right now, it’s like Obama’s in this thing on his own. Biden’s a media ghost.

That much I do agree with. I don't quite understand what Obama's doing. I find the rope-a-dope theory to be the audacity of false hope. At the same time, I do think they're planning, and are figuring out what to do.

Seven weeks to go.

That's many eternities in politics. :)

McCain has been kicking Obama’s ass for the past two weeks in terms of media exposure.

True. I sort of get the sense that Obama considered it inevitable. He could be (probably is) wrong, but I do sort of get that sense.

I have no doubt that Palin will look like an idiot in the VeeP debate,

I do. I think she'll look very professional. She's an idiot who knows how to bullshit. Even as a deer caught in headlights during her interview with Charlie Gibson, she did not lose her composure, and she strings sentences together well. She's the dipshit who can cram for a test the night before, and manage to pass.

How stupid she'll look will depend on how Joe Biden handles her. He'll have to trap her the way Gore did to Dan Quayle in 1992. (It was on the abortion issue. Gore hammered an effective cross examination.)

but again, that doesn’t matter. All that matters at this point is controlling the news cycle. Do that, and game over.

Well, not quite all that matters, but indeed, Obama has to learn how to do that better.

sözleri @ 120:

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 110:

why i despise bill maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Try1Aedcbto&feature=related

at the end of this segment, garafolo nails fund on the fact that he lied in his column about the dnc and obama dropping in a mini army into alaska....fund attempts to ignore the statement

maher gets them to move on

fund has no fucking cred...he is a straght out hack...and maher wont allow that to be shown on his show

fuck you bill

Bill sucks as usual. Garofalo knows what she's talking about (@ 7:10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tv82Gwo7i0

Glad to see Im not alone in what I felt when I watched that show.

motorfingaz @ 124:

sözleri @ 120:

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 110:

why i despise bill maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Try1Aedcbto&feature=related

at the end of this segment, garafolo nails fund on the fact that he lied in his column about the dnc and obama dropping in a mini army into alaska....fund attempts to ignore the statement

maher gets them to move on

fund has no fucking cred...he is a straght out hack...and maher wont allow that to be shown on his show

fuck you bill

Bill sucks as usual. Garofalo knows what she's talking about (@ 7:10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tv82Gwo7i0

Glad to see Im not alone in what I felt when I watched that show.

I thought Janeane was awesome. I love Bill too. :)

Don Rumsfeld hater @ 127:

Hmmmm, maybe I will vote .........for McCain !! McCain truly does represent change ! McCain = Change !! There's now a Sarah Palin doll on sale on line. If she becomes VP...or even BEFORE the election - I wonder if the following products will come out :
Fragrance by Sarah (Palin Perfume), A line of Sarah Palin Ladies Wear, Sarah Palin China, Sarah Palin Rimless glasses, Sarah's Cookbook (Healthy Alaskan Specialties), Sarah's Prayer of the Day prayer book, Sarah's Moisturizing Skin Cream.....

Surely these products will help Sarah win the election. Well, we've never had a VP with his own line of clothes, frangrance, prayer book, moisturizer..... this will certainly be a first ! So McCain really is the candidate for change !!!!!!!!!!

doesn't appear to be 'change' to me looks like old fashion separating
people from their money......that's not change we can believe in.

R.I.P. Peter Camejo.

motorfingaz @ 124:

sözleri @ 120:

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 110:

why i despise bill maher

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Try1Aedcbto&feature=related

at the end of this segment, garafolo nails fund on the fact that he lied in his column about the dnc and obama dropping in a mini army into alaska....fund attempts to ignore the statement

maher gets them to move on

fund has no fucking cred...he is a straght out hack...and maher wont allow that to be shown on his show

fuck you bill

Bill sucks as usual. Garofalo knows what she's talking about (@ 7:10)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tv82Gwo7i0

Glad to see Im not alone in what I felt when I watched that show.

had it not been for garofalo, fund would never have been called on any of his bs...

maher is so afraid to not be able to rebook these guys....but he doesnt get it...they love being on tv, even if they get pillaried

and it should frighten everyone that an actor/comic knows more about domestic and foreign policy than the repug candidate for vp...but it doesnt phase fund....because he represents the corporatists, who want another 4 years of puppets in the wh...

and the worst part of the show was bringing barr on...she is still the dumbest woman in show biz

she mistates what palin said in church...she makes it sound as if the dems have been going after her in a sexist manner and then she rambles on and on about roe v wade

let me tell you....i would love for roe to get overturned

number one, because it takes a huge talking point away from the repugs and may wake up those women who continue sleeping through the political process

no longer would a candidate like palin be seen as cute

and im sorry...but palin must still be a focus...as the nyt shows, she is a danger and a continuation of biz as usual....sure, she kicked out the good ole boys...and replaced them with her own...most of whom seem as incompetent as she is

sorry, site monitor off topic but i just have to comment on democratic strategist ARI MELBER who was on msnbc this week and who did a pretty good job against repub strategist brad blakeman. we need more of him out on tv shows. he was forceful, clear and was not talked over as democratic strategists usually allow themselves to be subjected to. too nice, i guess. would love to see him pounce on leslie sanchez, the lisping loony repub latina at cnn. (though i did see her get stumped by the righteous anger of roland martin after palin's convention speech)

subject here is sex ed ad of mccain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/ari-melber-calls-out-mcca_n_125...

masha @ 134:

sorry, site monitor off topic but i just have to comment on democratic strategist ARI MELBER who was on msnbc this week and who did a pretty good job against repub strategist brad blakeman. we need more of him out on tv shows. he was forceful, clear and was not talked over as democratic strategists usually allow themselves to be subjected to. too nice, i guess. would love to see him pounce on leslie sanchez, the lisping loony repub latina at cnn. (though i did see her get stumped by the righteous anger of roland martin after palin's convention speech)

subject here is sex ed ad of mccain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/ari-melber-calls-out-mcca_n_125966.html

i watched that video earlier today.....i have to say i enjoyed watching blakeman get the beat down. that 'sex education for kindergardeners' was out of bounds it really pissed me off. in addition to that i can't stand blakeman. he's kind of a self- righteous dick.

watched cnn specials on palin and biden. it was so unfair. biden's was mostly on personal life and controversies. his legislative accomplishments were not mentioned at all. palin's on the other hand subtlely twisted the troopergate as an issue about wooten rather than a cover-up; that when palin initially denied communicating with monegan but when she found out there were tapes, she changed her tune. report on palin didnt include judge in divorce of her sister reprimanded her nor her advisers' advice for her to apologize on this issue. cnn also didnt include the legal woes of the rink that she built. on biden's report, alex castellanos somehow was given time to spew republican spin, which "courtesy" was missing in palin's report. wrote cnn and gave negative feedback. told them it was good that there were real journalists out there like the nyt reporters who did their bit on palin. told them too that drew griffin, who did the report, did a sloppy job and probably did a sloppy job with his tsa report as well which probably got him on the no-fly list.

also, on larry king live website, he is asking for questions for meghan mccain. i sent my question on why she sees her principles (as a democrat) as subservient to her father becoming president because she said she gave him the gift of becoming republican.

constituent @ 137:

'daddy's roomate'.............palin doesn't like kind of freedom of speech

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/13/author-of-book-palin-targ_n_126236.html

Sarah Palin is an authoritarian theocrat who believes that the freedoms retained by the people are limited within a Christian context.

John McCain is a neo-con--style war hawk whose ambition to become president has compelled him to compromise his every position and pick Sarah Palin for his running soul mate.

If they are elected -- or otherwise ascend to the White House -- I see very little hope for America's derailed train ever to get back on track.

A friend offered this as a bumpersticker idea:

Sarah Palin: Alaska's Anita Bryant

masha @ 139:

constituent @ 136:

masha @ 134:

sorry, site monitor off topic but i just have to comment on democratic strategist ARI MELBER who was on msnbc this week and who did a pretty good job against repub strategist brad blakeman. we need more of him out on tv shows. he was forceful, clear and was not talked over as democratic strategists usually allow themselves to be subjected to. too nice, i guess. would love to see him pounce on leslie sanchez, the lisping loony repub latina at cnn. (though i did see her get stumped by the righteous anger of roland martin after palin's convention speech)

subject here is sex ed ad of mccain.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/12/ari-melber-calls-out-mcca_n_125966.html

i watched that video earlier today.....i have to say i enjoyed watching blakeman get the beat down. that 'sex education for kindergardeners' was out of bounds it really pissed me off. in addition to that i can't stand blakeman. he's kind of a self- righteous dick.

cant stand him, too. he just talks and talks without care about the truth of what he says. he met his match (or superior) in ari melber.

I watched it earlier too. Notice how Blakeman switches his positions. He starts by defending the bald-faced lies, but the moment he falters is when he admits that we can't really know what the legislation meant, and that one could read it in the way they suggest in the ad.

If ever there were an issue over which Obama could display righteous anger credibly, it is this one. Imagine one of his characteristic speeches that included something like:

"You know, we can poke a lot of fun at the Republicans for the way they run campaigns -- calling it 'silly season in politics' and all that -- but I really need to address something. Listen to this for a moment, because they've crossed a line here. I'm the proud father of two beautiful girls. You've gotten to know them through this campaign. I love them. More than anything in this world. I'm a dad.

Well, among all the ridiculous smears and lies, the ones smart people know to laugh off and the ones we know are just an unfortunate part of the game of politics, the Republicans have tossed in one that is utterly unacceptable. No, it's beyond that. It's grotesque. They're accusing me of supporting perverse legislation that would have harmed my own two beautiful daughters. They're accusing me -- and the great state of Illinois, by the way -- of supporting legislation that would teach comprehensive sex education to kindergardeners. How low can you stoop, John McCain? How low are you willing to stoop? How low is your party willing to stoop to keep the White House?

You know what that legislation said? It said that we should teach our young children about sexual predators. Not sex. Sexual predators. The difference between a good touch and a bad touch. When a stranger is dangerous, and when they should tell a grown up if something makes them uncomfortable.

And John McCain would rather pervert and distort that kind of necessary legislation in these dangerous times for his own ambition! I mean, it's either that, or he really thinks that Kindergardeners shouldn't even learn about information that would protect them from perverts because protecting them involves teaching them about bad touches. Is that what he thinks? God help us all if that's what he thinks, but I'm pretty sure he's just lying for political ambition -- more of the same grotesque politics we too readily accept.

Now, this might be just part of this game -- as we know it today. But you know what? Enough! It's gotta stop! It's gotta stop! And not just for me or my hurt feelings. For you! For the country! John McCain is playing this game because he thinks you can't win the presidency without doing so, without being grotesque. Well, I'm here to prove something to him -- YES WE CAN! And we will!

Will you join with me to change politics in America? Will you stand with me to stop these lies that come as easily to Washington politicians as breathing? Because if you stand with me, we can do it! YES WE CAN!"

just wrote to this radio station in alaska whose host unleashed his right wing listeners on the women organizers (whose contact info were on the press release for the media to contact them) who put up the anti-palin rally in alaska yesterday. the women got a lot of threatening phone calls as a result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8pewzwBybc&feature=related

this is the email address i got from the website: jmcdonald@kbyr.com

Commissar Palin and her Soviet

"a siege-like atmosphere. Top aides keep score, demean enemies and gloat over successes"

front page of the NYT

masha @ 146:

just wrote to this radio station in alaska whose host unleashed his right wing listeners on the women organizers (whose contact info were on the press release for the media to contact them) who put up the anti-palin rally in alaska yesterday. the women got a lot of threatening phone calls as a result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8pewzwBybc&feature=related

this is the email address i got from the website: jmcdonald@kbyr.com

So the senile puppet WcCain didnt vet Palin, but the xtian fundie republicans did and found her appealing.