McCain Would Think The Voting Rolls Are Fundamentally Sound, Too...If They're Purged Of Foreclosed Homeowners - UPDATED
By Nicole Belle Monday Sep 15, 2008 7:30am
Last week we reported about Republican plans to use home foreclosure lists to block voters from the polls after James Carabelli, chair of the Macomb County Republican Party, told Michigan Messenger that on election day Republican volunteers will "have a list of foreclosed homes and make sure people aren't voting from those addresses."
Republican leaders have since disavowed plans to use foreclosure lists as part of their plan to challenge the eligibility of some voters, but an attorney for the party, Eric Doster, did confirm that the party would use returned mail to challenge voters based on residency. As veteran Republican activist Allen Raymond told Michigan Messenger in a recent interview, holding down Democratic turnout is a key part of Republican strategy for victory in November.
Raymond knows about Republican campaign tactics. For almost a decade he managed campaigns for Republicans running for state and national office. In the 2002 New Hampshire elections, he ran a phone-jamming operation aimed at blocking elderly people from arranging rides to the polls, an illegal action that he says was approved by the highest levels of the party. He spent three months in federal prison. Earlier this year Raymond published a book about his life and work as a Republican operative, titled "Confessions of a Republican Operative: How to Rig an Election."
As for our report that the Michigan GOP planned to use foreclosure lists to block likely Democratic voters, Raymond said: "It's a very good tactic. It works."
"It is actually a very smart thing to do," he went on, "particularly in this climate with so many foreclosures."
For Republicans, he said, targeting the foreclosures would be a cost-effective and "probably" legal method of reducing Democratic votes.
If he were still in the election business, he said, "I'd be doing that all day long."
Sneaky. The majority of foreclosed homes are the ones with sub-prime loans held by lower income families, who are more likely to be Democrats. So challenge them and suddenly that pledge for "honest and open elections" is so much easier:
In anticipation of problems to come, John McCain's campaign announced Monday the "Honest and Open Election Committee" to troubleshoot voter issues on Nov. 4.
In the wake of the recount in 2000, campaigns have been quick to the draw on recognizing - and solving - problems with voter access. To be sure, there are plenty of issues, such as needing identification to get a ballot.[..]
McCain campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said there were a number of issues that required advance legwork, including the proper handling of absentee ballots by military personnel deployed overseas.
Another issue is the last-minute decisions for polling places to stay open later. Rogers said the committee will work with precincts to determine under which circumstances an extension should be granted as well as agree upon a judge to handle such claims.
"You could pre-approve some judges," Rogers said, "so they're not going to somebody who's in somebody's pocket."
I'm sure everyone will be content with McCain's pre-approved judges, right?
UPDATE: Michigan Dems and the Obama Campaign Sue for Foreclosure-Related Vote-Caging
Login or Register to post comments.
By "fundamentally sound" they mean that they have a lot of Fundamentalists praying loudly.
I guess when your party does stuff like this, they are admitting that cheating is the only path they have to victory.
Oh and Good Morning!
Sounds like "voter caging" will be in play for this election.
Another Republican in the white house by hook or crook.
McCain was on every morning cable news show this morning trying to explain his way out of his fundamental screw up. He says he was referring to the American worker when he said the fundamentals were sound. Does he know how many American workers are out of a job and do not feel their lives are sound?
Plus he kept smiling after making statements that did not merit a smile. It's like he punctuates his sentences, no matter what they are, with a strange smile. It's just down right eerie.
Fundamentally the only way Republicans can win is to limit opposition voters. They had to do that in 2000, 2002, 2004, they even tried it in 2006. Which is a good example of why I say the Republican party is completely UnAmerican. They don't like our Laws, our Workers, our Voters, or our Government. And they challenge my patriotism?
Do you suppose the Registrar of Voters in Texas will be 'purging' those folks in Galveston and elsewhere whose homes were destroyed by Ike as well?
Lie, cheat, steal! The rally cry of the Republican party.
I thought you only had to be 18 and registered to vote. Absolute Power corrupts absolutely.
This is just appalling. First they destroy the economy and people's mortgages and then they have the unmitigated gall to deny those people the vote because of the mortgage defaults they created in the first place.
Ditto the military that they sent overseas to fight their wars.
I know we can't advocate violence - and I certainly wouldn't but the thought of putting a few of these creeps in hospital when they tried to challenge people who've already suffered enough might make the rest a bit more wary of continuing this grotesque abuse of the democratic process - in my increasingly dark dreams anyway.
Maybe it's about time the US had a proper national ID system. Or in this case at least a voter-ID system or something, so this kind of crap couldn't happen. SSN #s are being used for WAY too much as it is, which IMHO already in itself outweighs a lot of the privacy concerns surrounding those kinds of schemes.
The Europeans, a lot (most?) of which already have 'em also have a lot stricter laws on the retention, gathering and sharing/export of private information. Frankly I find it really bizarre that the Americans so paranoid about letting their own government have their info, all the while they let private interests buy it, sell it, and do almost anything they want.
P.S Why doesn't the Republican Party actually try and increase their vote instead? You know, actually have something to offer that might appeal to people?
Dahgrostab'ph-r-i @ 5:
Why are you dissing Sarah Palin?
Conservatives like things the old-fashioned way.
Only rich, white males should be allowed to vote.
Mick Piobr @ 12:
I think he just called her a PIG !!
polls should be required to stay open as long as there is a line of people wanting to vote. Shame on us for thinking any other way.
How about calling off classes for the day all you universities. At a university near us (Indiana) the Pres. wanted to set up a place to vote on campus...Give you 2 guesses what party is against it.
How sad that election day has become full of divisive anger and fighting just like our country has become. We whould be celebrating and showing the world how good we are at this. It is getting to the point our elections need to be monitored for fairness from an outside party just like we do for other countries.
Pretty pathetic when you cast your vote and just keep your fingers crossed that it is going to count.
Sadly Indiana is now one of the worst in the nation for making it as difficult as possible for people to vote.
Wouldn't it be a good tactic for Obama to make McCain pledge at one of the debates that he will not disenfranchise foreclosed voters? How could McCain say no?
C. Hussein Jr. @ 14:
Oh! The horror! Somebody call Tom Brokaw!
What vile disgusting anti-american doesn't want to count every eligible person's vote?
Why do they hate a government of the people by the people?
Someone needs to flat out ask McCain if he supports this strategy and force him to answer. I can only foresee two outcomes:
1: He disavows the strategy, all but forcing the Michigan GOP to abandon their plans (assuming the media does their part and applies pressure where needed... I won't be holding my breath).
2: He makes a non-denial denial, and we have yet another piece of prima facie toward proving to the public that McCain is exactly the type of corrupt, partisan hack he used to speak out against so frequently in 2000.
Hey, that fundamentals is all about taking out your discontented folks. get with the pogrom.
supremecourtjester @ 16:
easy.
McCain: "I'll have someone from my staff get back to you on that."
A new "Civil War" has begun if only in ideology for the moment. For the life of me I cannot understand how the Repigs could have a chance in this election (even with all their manipulations) and yet it is quite possible.
I would have a better chance understanding an alien life form than those who would vote for another Repuke gov't with McSame/Palin
This needs to be exposed big time! The more of these manipulations that are forced into the daylight the more likely we'll have an honest election. Viva the internet 2008!
So, hanging chads, misdirecting voters to wrong polls, voting machine irregularities, and who knows what else, needs to get exposed, challenged, and blamed on Repubs BEFORE the election!
Nancy Pfotenhauer's Cheshire Cat grin and "persona" needs to be taken seriously as she represents their whole operation. Republicans will do whatever needs to be done to win. Lie, cheat, steal....whatever.
Does anyone have the home addresses for these neo-fascists? They better have Blackwater bodyguards. It's long past time for these Republican operatives to be held accountable. If there was a real physical price to pay, they might have second thoughts on trying to undermine what is left of democracy in the U.S..
supremecourtjester @ 16:
I don't think mccain would have a problem pledging that. Would such a pledge be worth a thimble of spit? "Signs point to no" Looking @ the above article and just about everything I have seen and read for this election, it's clear to me that they will do whatever they can, with no regard to right or wrong, as long as it delivers the US military might to jebus.
Wouldn't pre-approving judges just target those people for pressure long before the time they'd be needed?
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Yesterday tourists in New York gathered to watch Lehman Brothers employees leave their offices with their personal possessions in boxes and bags. To bad there weren't activists there to hand the recently unemployed applications to Wal-Mart and McDonalds. It would have sent a powerful message to the tourists and might even have been picked up by the media.
http://www.stealbackyourvote.org/
If McCain is doing so well in the polls, why do they feel they have to cheat for him to win?
When your home has been foreclosed upon, that surely doesn't mean you have lost your right to vote too. I hope Obama's team has a lot of lawyers to watch over these shenanigans on voting day. Dem. lawyers in every state should volunteer to be at their voting precincts to stand guard.
“You could pre-approve some judges,” Rogers said, “so they’re not going to somebody who’s in somebody’s pocket.” And, of course, you have to read in the implication, "to make sure they are in our pockets."
That is how they think. It's the afterthought that should be of concern. Look at McCain's afterthought that redefined "fundamentals of our economy" away from the true fundamentals of unemployment rates, foreclosures, job lay-offs (Hewlett-Packard is laying off how many?) to meaning the hard working Americans. Now to say the fundamentals of the economy are not strong is an attack on the men and women of America.
They ignore, and the minions are clueless about, the fact that the hard working Americans cannot be that by definition if they have no jobs to work!
pissed off patricia @ 4:
He's in damage control...trying to put out a fire that he started...
And yeah....his smile is creepy as hell, innit?
OT, I know you guys don't have much control over the embedded ads, but the one I see from sodahead.com, "Who is more likely to cheat?" is highly offensive. Obama, McCain and spouses are shown with Michelle literally looking like a demon from Hell, via some really bad photoshop. If you can kick that advertiser, please do so.
Kilgore Trout @ 22:
I hate to admit it, but the Republicans have always been better at framing the debate. We aren't fighting "a war on terror", we are fighting "Islamo-Facism". We aren't "torturing" people, we are using "enhanced interrogation methods". We aren't "nation building", we are "spreading democracy". We aren't "disenfranchising voters", we are "preventing voter fraud". Or how about this classic by Saint Ronnie himself, "Government can't solve people's problems. Government is the problem", while of course those who hate government try so hard to be in government.
Senator McCain knows that he cannot win this election on the issues, so he frames the debate to be not about issues, but personalities. He will also rely on those who fought against him in 2000 to use their tactics to win at all costs.
Soon, only the rich will be able to vote.
And the rich will vote for tax breaks for the rich, and slash public expenditure on programs which benefit the poor.
This is republican nirvana.
Soon to be followed by the poor people murdering the rich in their sleep.
McCain would rather sell his soul and his self respect than lose an election. That is desperation. What else would he be willing to give up in order to get what he wants? I guess we shall see.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Yep. And yet, over half the people (zombie idiots) in this country support this asshole and his wack-job vice. It is official; Americans are the dumbest bastards on the face of the earth!
McCain Would Think The Voting Rolls Are Fundamentally Sound, Too…If They’re Purged Of Foreclosed Homeowners
So that's why on the way in I saw tanker trucks of Ex-Lax on the highway.
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 36:
I wish I had a good argument and could disagree with you. But when I see crowds of people going nuts over Palin and knowing how shallow that woman is, well I have to say you may well be correct.
I am just hoping that in November that Mac forgets which one of his homes he is registered to vote at and can't. Then he loses that state by 1 vote and it is the tipping point in the election, man that would be sweet sweet justice.
McCain Would Think The Voting Rolls Are Fundamentally Sound, Too…If They’re Purged Of Foreclosed Homeowners
Isn't that a relgiously biased comment?
What about believers in the Rig Veda?
"Robert F. Kennedy Jr. blew the lid off the Theft of 2004 in his masterful Rolling Stone article.
Investigative reporter GREG PALAST for BBC television exposed Katherine Harris’ “felon purge” which fixed the 2000 race.
Now Kennedy and Palast have teamed up to investigate THE THEFT OF 2008. They’ve uncovered the scheme to swipe votes by the millions.
So,what are you going to do about it?
That’s easy: STEAL BACK YOUR VOTE!"
http://www.stealbackyourvote.org/
Hannity was discussing the Constitution and Bill of Rights yesterday.
I laughed so hard, I almost went off the road.
liberalNmoderation @ 30:
That's a smile!? I thought that he was passin gas.
"ensure special handling for military absentee ballots??" I'll believe that when I see it. I'm an Obama supporter and currently serving this country. I think I'll ensure handling of my own ballot when I confirm it's reception to Michigan's voting office. Whether he is in denial or not, McCain has lost a lot of the voting stock he claims to have. I think the prime reason for that is due to the GI Bill Jim Webb put up that he was against when he voted against it, then supported after to take credit.
Honor is something a man gives himself that no man can take away, Sir. You've obviously thrown yours in the refuse.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Thanks for putting that in words.
fastfeat @ 45:
That goes for me too, Patricia!
Phoenix Justice @ 32:
Taxpayer dollars going to taxpayers is "SOCIALISM-BOO!" Taxpayer dollars going to the super rich is "capitol investment." Taxpayer dollars going for corporate welfare is "liqiudity enhancement." Taxpayer dollars going to no-bid privatization cronies is "restructured investment."
These assholes have an Orwellean term for everything. If Bush/Cheney and the GOPers could find a way to execute grandma and grandpa, and steal their social security checks, they would probably call it something like "eliminating stress for the eldery initiative." Eliminating stress for grandma? Aren't those republicans wonderful people?
Why isn't Obama jumping all over this? Is he sleeping or something?
OBAMA: "WAKE THE FUCK UP!!!!!!"
pissed off patricia @ 38:
I wish I could disagree with me too. SIGH!
This is very important...On the TeeVee news the McComb Co Republican spokesman disavowed these accusations...A BIG HOWEVER! The Mi Republican AG vowed to prosecute ANY individual for voter fraud if they lost their house and tried, TRIED to vote in Mi. The Republicans are not only lying about what they are attempting to do but are ingaged in an illeagal voter scheme. The Republican AG in Mi is sending thes peoples names to the DOJ to be proscuted for voter fraud and the Bush DOJ is complicit. This was reported on NPR on Mon Sept 16 2008.
Dow down 140. It's going to be another stellar day! And this is after the Fed pumped in 20 Billion of OUR tax money.
The Repubs are just trying to return America to the type of nation the Founding Fathers intended: one where only landed, white males could vote.
Rusty@51, You're right! My father is one of them. He long fled up north. He threatens to move back, but I told him the area he grew up in is much more diverse. He longs for the days of all white suburbia with white picket fences. I told him it isn't going to happen.
P.D. @ 52:
You're evolving humaness may give rise to some hope, just like the younger evangelicals in some churches actually getting back to what the great community organizer, Jesus, believed in: social justice!
it must be difficult to put food on your family - I mean, it's hard work.
I need to correct the date of comments # 50...it was reported on Mon 15 not 16.
I’d like some talented person or group to create a video showing white families with young children living on the streets in the millions and families shopping in supermarkets which have shelves that are 90% empty and people grabbing items in a panic without even looking and in the supermarket ,over the loudspeakers in the ceilings ,we hear, “Ladies and gentlemen ,the fundamentals of our economy are strong. This is President John McCain, you can relax and feel at peace knowing the fundamentals of our economy are strong.” and in the streets of America where homeless families live in cardboard homes that line the sidewalks -military vehicles drive around with loudspeakers, “My dear Friends, the fundamentals of our ecnomy are strong. Rest assured the fundamentals of our economy are strong. Your president has spoken.” and in the video -we see starving children and their parents eating flour and cardboard.
Somebody -make such a video ,please? (^_^;)
These kinds of actions need to be challenged in a sympathetic federal court, on an emergency basis. They are inarguably intended to disenfranchise certain classes of voters based on probable race, ethnicity and economic class; you would have to be brain dead not to see that they violate the voting rights acts, and the civil rights of the people who are being disenfranchised. More they are deliberate attempts to tamper with elections. It is, in essence and in final effect, a national conspiracy, directed at a single party. Because these tactics are centrally planned by the RNC or by nationally coordinated Republican organs, they step outside of any constitutional provisions that leave the mechanics of conducting elections to the states. A Federal cease and desist court order prohibiting any tactics or actions that, regardless the pretense used, systematically disenfranchise voters who would likely be voting for a particular party, or by reasons of probable race, ethnicity or economic class would go a long way towards assuring fair elections. A court action will be needed, because the DoJ, and the federal elections commssions are lost in partisan corruption, and it is doubtless too much too expect that they will uphold the laws or democratic principles.
Don Rumsfeld hater @ 56:
I like it.
It's ironic isn't it? Whites will be in the minority in just a few decades. These guy will be in minority status. I suggest they start learning to love thy neighbor soon.
chicano2nd @ 46:
Always happy to help. :)
Allen Raymond says this is "smart" and "legal." On the surface, what he says, from one perspective, can't be denied. Stepping back to view a more "bigger picture" perspective, one sees just how destructive for all this is.
Raymond's attitude is just one more example of the prevalence of "bottom line" ethics or "small vision" morality that haunts us all today and will be our ruin.
The economic mess we face today can be traced, at least in part if not to great measure, on this mentality of what can I get away with today, "legal" or not, that will be to my benefit and to hell with the consequences tomorrow.
Plenty of people made a lot of money in the subprime scam, but to what end? Doesn't the bible question what a man gains if he loses his soul? What is won, if one gains wealth at the expense of most and then sees everything around him or her collaspe.
Those who are morally corrupt in their expedient selfessness simply say they don't care - they got theirs.
In a representative democracy it is best for the health of the whole to get as many people involved as possible. If one is truly interested in perserving a way of life they should be trying to make it easier for people to vote rather than the opposite.
This is just one more example of the "three card monty" that the powers that be foist upon "the people" trying to get them to do what's best for the "elites" to maintain their power and wealth while wrapping it in a "culture war" wrapping or some kind of "double speak." It's nothing more than greed, selfishness, and immorality.
Let's be clear and fair - both parties, both candidates have a lot to answer to and neither one is really talking much truth.
Again we are offered a choice between bad and "badder."
NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 58:
...........
Thanks for the praise "No Goerge W Bush policies left in place".
You know.....I think if the violence in Iraq suddenly became 20 times worse this month- McCain and his supporters would STILL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! say ,"Why can't Obama admit that the SURGE WORKED ?????!!!!!"
I think Hitler once said, "The bigger the lie the more likey it will be believed. "
Stop and think about that for a moment.
Isn't the theory of our democracy one person, one vote? Does it matter whether someone is registered in the precinct where their foreclosed home is or where they are currently residing? Unless states all adopt Minnesota's voting laws where you can register on the day of the election using various forms of identification (driver's license, utility bill, a neighbor who can vouch for you) and then vote, some people are going to be disenfranchised. Or is that the plan? After the hectic election season, the voting lists can be checked to be sure people didn't vote more than once and are eligible to vote. It works well and actually encourages people to vote.
pissed off patricia @ 2:
Cheating and scaring off voters in "certain" areas.
OT--
Heard on Stephanie Miller this morning. One of Sarah Palin's email accounts in the public domain:
gov.sara@yahoo.com
Not sure if it's really her's but I sent a test to it and it appears to have been delivered.
Insert your own pork/spam jokes...
Mick Piobr @ 43:
He closes one eye when he farts....you can tell...and Cindy turns a whiter shade of translucent.
pissed off patricia @ 4:
I found his praise of the "American worker" amusing. If the "American workers" are so wonderful, so productive, then why is it that the CEOs have been reaping all the wealth and the "American worker" has been going backward?
also, if McCain thinks the "American Worker" is so great, why are all the companies sending jobs overseas??????? Some days I just want to scream, "Has the whole fu#king nation lost its mind?" My god, why is there such tepid response from the dems on this? And by the way, why aren't the dems out there campaigning for Obama? Where the hell are they?
Shan @ 11:
Because that would interfere with their class war - redistributing wealth from working people to corporate rulers. Every dollar counts, you know.
John @ 33:
What do you mean soon? Isn't that what's been going on for the past eight years?
Why does living in a foreclosed home preclude someone from voting? Foreclosure doesn't equal non-residency. is this really a fear tactic? People with mortgage problems won't want to vote for fear they will be call out at the polls by a GOP rep.....
Can someone clarify?
Do you realize how much clearer and less confusing the name of this blogsite would be if they would just change the name to 'Republicans'?
Maybe someday, he might suffer an accident, the kind that have you eating through a straw and pissing into a bag ...all day long.
Three months for subverting Democracy? Seems a little light, why do Republican operatives hate voters? Why does the MSM continue to ignore these despicable tactics from the right?
I'm not advocating violence, but if any of you are unhinged and thinking bad thoughts you could start with those guys, no one would miss them.
This would be a great idea for a DNC Dem-brand commercial: Dems want to fix the problem while GOP wants to kick 'em while there down with the iron boot.
It may be "smart" if your definition of smart involves being a disgusting asshole.
Purging voters should be a federal crime. There is only anecdotal evidence that anyone has ever willfully gone from poll to poll re-voting. This whole program of throwing out ballots based upon blatantly illegal criteria is the tool of ONE PARTY. But they have once more catapulted the propaganda and whipped up more fear and subservience within the electorate. But that is no surprise. Just read the latest issue of TV Guide to see how low our collective IQ's have sunk.
Alexdem,
Maybe it’s about time the US had a proper national ID system. Or in this case at least a voter-ID system or something, so this kind of crap couldn’t happen. SSN #s are being used for WAY too much as it is, which IMHO already in itself outweighs a lot of the privacy concerns surrounding those kinds of schemes.
People don't vote based upon their SS #'s. They vote based upon their addresses. There has never been any program to use bogus SS#'s to register large numbers of illegal voters. Just the labor involved makes this an unworkable strategy. SS#'s are unimportant to the one party that is actively purging legitimate voters. The national voter ID is a REPUBLICAN program that effectively prevents poor, elderly and rural citzens, who are mostly democratic, from voting by complicating the process of registration. They are trying to convince people that they are protecting us from a voting problem that simply does not exist.
pissed off patricia @ 2:
I wonder if we could find out where they are going to be making those calls from and simply go there and if need be tear out the phone lines. It would not take long and is not that hard to do. If you find the punchdown block and pluu the wires out of there connections they won't work until someone comes and puts them back in the proper order. It would be worth paying the small bill to get the wires punched back in the next day.
My god, the guy actually writes a book admitting he's an anti-democracy criminal?
Well, at least he's honest in that regard.
The national voter ID is a REPUBLICAN program that effectively prevents poor, elderly and rural citzens, who are mostly democratic, from voting by complicating the process of registration. They are trying to convince people that they are protecting us from a voting problem that simply does not exist.
yes it's a shame the republicans have no shame! They will do or say absolutely anything to get their way.
There is no honesty, no honor, no integrity, and no compassion for fellow human beings in the republican party. It has been replaced by greed and selfishness.
The republican motto should be; fuck you I've got mine.
"holding down Democratic turnout is a key part of Republican strategy for victory in November."
This is not the way of a Republic or a Democracy.
This is the way of a dictatorship that has sham elections.
pissed off patricia @ 38:
I am now at a point where I don't buy the polls anymore.
Most news organizations are own by conglomerates that are very cozy with the republican party.
Most polling organizations are also headed by republican pinheads, and like the M$M they have 0 oversight, and most of their polling is neither certified nor made public (in method and data set).
Most voting machines are literally owned by GOP members.
Now... Americans must be one of the dumbest people in the world, since they seem to be A-OK with the foxen warding the hens.
People vote with their wallets, and I am yet to find a hardcore McCain supporter this election cycle, no matter what Palin looks like... in the end the GOP can not overcome the feeling of sheer panic by most of the people out there when it comes to the fact that our economy is collapsing.
I have met a couple of McCain supporters, mostly as a surprise since I expected them to know better, but for the most part I have seen literally 100 Obama stickers per each McCain one. I know it is unscientific, but honestly it may be more scientific that the bullshit method that Rasmunsen and Gallup use.
The only reason why the polls claim McCain is so close is to put forth the conditions for another steal.
with the assist of polsters and msm pundants, keeping the election close so it is easier to steal dosn't seem like a far fetched idea after all.
Tyler Durden @ 82:
Nail. On. Head.
What happened to trying to include as many citizens as possible in the electoral process. Any party that spends time trying to preemptively disqualify voters as opposed to proactively registering as many as possible should be denied access to the polls.
maybe repeating someone upthread... but what about all the unfortunate souls who have lost their homes to the recent storms. i wonder if their house was destroyed that technically means that they're not living in their houses so they can't vote from that address... hmmmmm
John @ 33:
Well, one of the premises in which this country was founded was the fact that only white male land owners (AKA the rich people of that time) were allowed to vote.
So maybe the GOP are just being strict constitutionalist... I am surprised that a concern troll hasn't used that line yet.
es-HUSSEIN-me @ 86:
Voting is an inalienable right, in fact it is THE paramount right of any democracy...
If the Republicans want to make having a home as a requirement for voting, then they will have no problem making house another inalienable right too.
Any person meddling with the electoral process should be prosecuted for sedition. Period...
I have to say, if there's ONE thing that really annoyed and disappointed me about the Democratic 110th Congress, it's that they did NOTHING to clean up the federal elections process! I didn't really expect them to try and impeach Bush, and I only half way expected them to try and hold Bush's imps to account. But I thought they could have AT LEAST passed some legislation to clean up the election process.
If the 2008 election is stolen by Republicans again, the Democrats have only themselves to blame. They could have passed legislation to prevent these tactics from being used, and chose not to.
Pericles @ 89:
Indeed, the fact that only grass roots organization have been putting the manpower to ensure the safety of our electoral process, makes me think that old Nader was right.
Alas, one of the things that has always fascinated about this country... is that we are not really a democracy as much as we live under the illusion of democracy... or democratic republic, since we never were a representative democracy which is supposed to be the standard configuration for a democracy to be considered as such. For example, if this had been a democracy, the electoral college would have been abolished long ago, election day would be a national holiday, and the burden of registering to vote would be on the state not the individual.
The country needs to be purged of Republicans. Prison, exile, mental institutions, treason trials and a hangman's knot. Whatever it takes to rid the nation of this 5th column that would destroy the Republic for their own personal gain.
Well, this just sucks. It's not bad enough that people are suffering from losing their homes - whether through foreclosure or natural disaster - now they have to suffer the humiliation of being disenfranchised. If anyone had any doubts that the Repugs are scum, this should erase them once and for all.
Maybe it's time to have The Carter Center run and verify the elections in this country.?!
Gotugye @ 91:
A tad too Stalinesque for me
And I just loath the mustache.
What Obama needs to do is run ads in WI, CO, GA, FL, AL and other states where massive voter purging is taking place... run them RIGHT NOW, telling people...
"Republicans are afraid of Change coming to Washington. In order to protect big oil, HMOs and other lobbyists over you, they are pulling out all the stops. Including using their power to purge voters off the rolls. Hundreds of Thousands of regular people who have never done anything wrong are not going to be allowed to vote either because their name is slightly similar to that of some felon somewhere or because you may have lost your house due to a bank foreclosure from the mortgage industry that they let run amok. Please protect your right to vote! Contact your local and state election officials and make sure you are registered. The only way to real change in Washington is to change and stop their cheating tactics before November 4th."
Of course the repugs could purge themselves of PNACers and neo-cons.
I'm tired of being conned.
I was just watching the hearing in The House Judiciary Committee where they were "trying" to grill FBI Director Mueller on the new "guidelines" that are coming out where more in depth spying of American citizens will be a-okay.
Maxine Waters (D- Inglewood, CA) brought the issue of voters being purged from voting lists who have foreclosed homes up to Mueller and he said he hadn't heard anything about it!
Apparently they are having a hearing with a woman named Becker from the Civil Rights Division of The Justice Department and she will be grilled on this subject.
Republican apparachiks to hassle would be voters over where they live.... And some representative of these same tools claim it's all good... great little 'tactic' to pull on the opposition..."it works"... Uh-huh... Ya know, sounds like a busted nose waiting to happen to me.... I know that's what they'd get for their trouble if they approached me with that lameass game......JD
And this is why the whole mess is pointless.
the dems run a campaign and the reslugs run a scam. They don't care who their candidates are because they don't give a shit about the voting.
Their real strategy is to cage/block and steal as many votes as they can then wait for their bought and paid for judges to hand it to them again.
It's like listening to the guy who robbed your house last night brag about it.
Where the fuck are the authorities? Why aren't they doing anything about this?
OH yeah I forgot, reslugs own those too.
After reading this i am quite astonished that you guys call your nation a democratic one.
JStilabo @ 8:
You also have to be a resident of a particular voting district. It's not fair for people to run across the county to vote just because their relative is running for another town council. But it's downright cruel for people to be stripped not only of their home but of the right to vote. Why does the GOP hate humanity? Because they'll do anything to win?
ysbaddaden @ 95:
It is like you expect a dog not to bark and lick his own arse.... not gonna happen.
She didn't blink because she's ON A MISSION TO REFORM AMERICA.
She is going to make EVERYONE BECOME A HOLY ROLLER. CAN YOU IMAGINE THE CONGRESS SPEAKING IN TONGUES AND FLIPPING ALL OVER THEIR SEATS SCREAMING LIKE ANIMALS?
You know... like they do when Bush comes to the State of the Union?
Don't buy this prick's book. He's got to do a lot more than write a book to get out of hell.
OK, it is a personal (economic) tragedy for people to have their homes foreclosed. Causes all sorts of other problems and empathy and compassion is in order. BUT
the right to vote is directly, and legally, tied to where you live. If you have moved, for whatever reason, all you need to do is take a few minutes while buying stamps and re-register. No big deal.
If a person votes using a false address they are committing voter fraud. Voter fraud is a big deal.
The silly outrage, and threats of violence in comments above, is misplaced anger. CORRECTLY purging voter rolls in the government's obligation.
Just follow the law...
Sashland@104;
Ya know friend, you paint a very sensible picture. That's a very rational, sane position to expouse, and IF I thought this was all about non affiliated observers or hell, even 'honest' republican operatives Juuust tryin to make sure the system works fair??.... I really wouldn't have a problem with that... But this scam?... That's not what it's about and the goddamned repubs snark and joke about that, they admit it... Wake up! These motherfuckers are trying to disenfranchise ligitimate voters their research has shown will likely vote dem... ITS A FUCKING ILLEGAL SCAM hiding behind some election law... That's ALL it is.. THAT's why someone who touts this needs their faces busted over it.....JD
Sashland @ 104:
Follow the law?
Only when it benefits these republicans, do they concern themselves with following the law.
Jack Damage @ 105:
LOL! Sarc, no?
Well, it certainly is a partisan campaign tactic, but "illegal" to have the voter registrar enforce the law? If you have moved and vote at your old precinct YOU are breaking the law, not the person who proves that your registration is invalid. You don't know, Jack?
My apologies for being "rational and sane" and not fitting in with the "outrage" thread...
Liars, indeed.
The most frightening prospect of a McCain/Palin win is that of being able to appoint a supreme court justice.
Canada will have to build a southern border fence at least fifty feet high with another ten feet of razor wire..
"The majority of foreclosed homes are the ones with sub-prime loans held by lower income families, who are more likely to be Democrats"
Is that really true? If so it's a recent change. A lot of low income voters voted for Bush twice. The Republicans usually blame the "elitists" (whatever that means) for Democratic votes as a way to attract low income people.
The more that the populace votes, the more the Republicans lose.
What the Democrats should do is offer legislation that will be painful for the Republicans.
They should offer legislation that:
1. Grants a $300 tax break (adjusted for inflation every year) for anyone who can prove they have voted in the national elections & requires that receipts .be given at the polls upon voting.
2. Makes Voting day a national holiday
This will be painful for Republicans to oppose because will be opposing a tax break. They will oppose it anyway because they know it would be the death knell of the Republican party. They will likely distort the aims of this legislation claiming something along the lines of "We should not be giving incentives for doing your civic duty." Which the Democrats should counter with:
1. The sound bite "The Republicans are just opposed to giving a tax break that goes to ordinary citizens and not corporations."
2. The long-winded explanation that voting is suppressed in this country because the citizens have become discouraged with the process and NEED some incentives to get back to the polls. Democracy fails if the people do not participate for whatever reason.
Sashland;
'You don't know Jack?' Cute, cute zinger, but... Yea.. I knew that... And your cut and paste skills are impressive too... I also notice how convienient that you left out the part where I stated 'IF' etc... Maybe you didn't notice that part. You are right about it being a campaign 'tactic'. And the sad truth on this is, we are way the fuck past the point where we can all laugh off a 'beat the other guy any way we can' campaign tactic that undermines the entire system of voting in this country via fear and law manipulation by political operatives in order to ensure their side wins by eliminating citizens who might vote the other way... The ONLY thing that accomplishes in the long run is instilling hard feelings and cynicism in the voting public. So, this whole voter registrar thing you speak of? THAT IS the SCAM... That IS the law and procedural process they are hiding behind and using to intimidate and/or confuse voters in this instance.
You speak of the process as it should be managed, the ideal manner in which an election should and is suppose to be ran... An ideal process that was initially blown up in 2000 by these same types of republican operatives... This, this thing they are trying to pull using the very laws you defend (rightfully so in an ideal scenario) has nothing to do with what these people are up to. But ya know what? Fuck all that are they or aren't they... Here's an idea... IF ligitimate election officials who can prove who they are wants to ask me where the hell I live, fine. I don't have a problem with that... As long as THEY can prove who the hell they are first.... If they are going to be hitting me up for my credentials then I am going to do likewise.
Otherwise, it's none of their goddamned business..... IF they can't prove to me, they work for the voter registrars office, then the least they are going to get is a harty FUCK OFF!!! If they try the kind of tactics I've heard they are famous for using on older citizens, and the less educated out there, I WILL bust their face wide open with my bare hands!!! In fact I will go out of my way to do it! I'm sick and tired of these motherfuckers punking and ruining this nation in part with 'these tactics', and I REFUSE to let them pull this shit on me without repurcussions coming directly back onto their punk asses immediately...... Maybe I'll get sued, maybe I'll spend a night in jail.. Maybe both things will befall me.. But ya know what... IF it's under THOSE CIRCUMSTANCES??? Totally worth it holmes!
Let me be clear with you Sashland; A voter registrar question to me is OK, period. A republican political operative or two getting all in my face when I'm trying to enter a polling place to vote telling me lies about the rules or snooping to try and find out ANYTHING about me??? Call the fucking cops and an ambulance period! They will both be needed...............JD
So when the legally permitted party poll watcher raises a challenge to your registration with the election officials (not with you directly - doesn't work that way that I've ever seen) you gonna go punch out the old lady?
Your "IF" doesn't change your statement: "ITS A FUCKING ILLEGAL SCAM hiding behind some election law". More accurate, while still keeping your perspective might be: 'Its a LEGAL SCAM hiding behind ENFORCING some election law.' If anyone ILLEGALLY interferes with your voting that WOULD be a very different story, but that is not the case in this article. This is legal, and appropriate. Voter fraud undermines Democracy; rule enforcement protects Democracy.
All the rest is just bluster, posturing, and rationalizing ILLEGAL VOTERS.
The Demcratic party needs to obtain those same lists and contact every person on it to alert them that they are about to lose thier right to vote. Not because they are not US citizens. Not because they are registered felons. But because they are Debtors. I wonder when they will be sentenced to prison terms for this crime. Since when is it illegal to vote if you are in debt or do not own property? Is that not one of the big reasons we amnmended the Constitution so people other than landowners could vote? What's next? Slavery, no votes for women?
What the hell is up with the apologists? Yeah great it's a legal method. Using loopholes is still wrong. Defending it puts you in the column of people who don't deserve your inalienable rights (but you get to keep them anyways).
the real interesting thing is that multiple Republicans are writing books about the dirty underhanded crap they pulled for the GOP and yet people STILL want to vote republican. I personally think that we ought to take a page from WW2 era France and make public shaming examples of the collaborators and conspirators. :)
pissed off patricia @ 4:
Body language analysts say smiling at moments like that indicates a deep seated discomfort with the subject and an inability to connect emotionally or knowingly lying.
Sashland:
No, the little old lady always verifies where I live. I don't have a problem with the little old lady... IF she wants to know more than that or wants me to prove to her in some other way than what has always been the norm that I do live there, after having voted in the same little place for the last umtpy whatever years, I'm gonna have to ask her why all the drama all the sudden? IF she tells me some poll watcher asked her to confront me? I will take it up with the poll watcher directly and ask a few pointed questions of my own... If I don't like the answers, than I'm afraid all that 'bluster' and 'posturing' is very likely going to kick in... And it could get messy real fast... Now all this back and forth aside Sashland, I agree with your basic position that voter fraud undermines democracy and that rule enforcement protect democracy... I Just don't believe the republican have the least bit of interest in that noble goal... And after the last eight year trainwreck please do enlighten me just why I should put any trust in these motherfuckers on anything.....JD
Now we just need Obama to create the Protect Americans from the Corrupt Republicans Commission. The saddest part of this story is the Republicans need to resort to such back alley and nasty techniques to manipulate the election -- all because they have no chance of winning an election on their own merits. Today's Republicans are the most corrupt and slimy political party ever and all of those guilty should be tried and jailed post haste.
'k Jack:
Sorry, its just not relevant if you "believe" a campaign has a noble goal. If people are too lazy to re-register after they move, for whatever reason, they lose the right to vote. The campaigns have every right to (figuratively) bust their faces, as you might describe.
One Reason: McCain exposed and tried to stop the Fanny/Freddy payola ILLEGAL SCAM while Obama and Biden were at the head of the line sucking the cash cow for campaign contributions.
Free Bonus Reason: McCain stayed within public campaign financing; Obama said he would too, until he didn't. Did you mention Trust?
Clear enough? These are real issues, with real positions, real decisions, and real consequences.
thanks for the dance...
There is a reason they lost there house and are poor, they made a bad decision. So I don't want them voting and making ANOTHER bad decision thats going to cost me even more!!!
I don't care if this is deleted. It just needs to be said.
Every voting place that refuses to take people votes should be burned to the ground. That night. With no exceptions.
Please don't let this fall off the front page! In case other states are going through this they need to keep seeing this as much as possible.
Sashland;
Don't mention it honey... Come back anytime.... We can two step as much as you like. Oh, and just for the record, not sold on your reasons I should trust republicans but it was a nice try on your part...... But what you offer, your two examples, which I will have to check on before I even buy the meme, does not address nor compensate IF true, for all the crap from these people including your boy McCain over the last 30 plus years. I'm not even going to go into specifics, it would take too long and much of it is already known anyway, if downplayed or ignored by people like you and the media. As for noble goals and who has what rights...legally or otherwise? Generically speaking, yes campaigns have a right to find out about the addresses of prospective voters.. What you called the 'legal scam'. What they don't have a right to do is intimidate voters after the facts have been determined. Once they know voter A lives at address A and has not moved or otherwise changed their voter status, and this has been confirmed, they got no more business getting in anyones face at that point. And my understanding is that this is exactly the kind of bullshit that is going on. That's just straight up voter intimidation and vote tampering. And as such, merits having their faces busted, (figuratively or litterally, dealers choice).... Either way, I'm not personally going to put up with THAT. This is the kind of thing that will get people hurt, killed even. Happened in the past, republicans ain't immune to the laws of nature.
It's interesting that you don't think this sort of thing, this anger and dismay by people over this tactic is relevant because what is going on is technically legal. Perhaps you'll reconsider that position if enough outrage over voter tempering, and electronic vote theft in this cycle then leads to widespread fed up violence that does take the form of destroying voting places and hurting republican operatives working under orders to try and hassle Ma and Pa Kettle.... You want to pretend a technical legality for checking addresses which allows for this intimidation practice to hide behind makes it all well and good... Sashland, people don't like being disenfranchised, especially over lies, especially when it involves one of the most basic rights we've been instilled with since the cradle to believe is one of the most inalienable. And the fact that repubs have got away with two election cycles worth of legally and morally questionable bullshit that disenfranchised hundreds of thousands of voters and created a condition by which the 2000 election still remains, in the minds of many, a limbo as far as validity. Hundreds of thousands of peoples question that election result.. In short due to the situations tied to the 2000 and 2004 elections, people are generally pissed and suspicious of anything remotely smelling like vote manipulation. So, yea, any plan to disenfranchise voters and have it tied to the sub-prime mortgage desaster which is republican generated via the deregulation craze, and everyone knows this fact, and then use this as excuse to keep people out of the voting booth, because of a legal requirement already in place governing address criteria for voting, is going to make people already suspicious of repub intentions hopping mad and even more jaded in their views of that party and the system. To hide behind a law and ignore or pretend this anger isn't real or just not relevant because all the i's are dotted and t's crossed on the practice.. Or maybe just because you want to view it as irrational or something seems to be out of touch with reality.
You appear to be the kind of guy who will defend that election and excuse the florida (00) and 0hio (04) scandals as water under the bridge and just as likely think that election provided a fair outcome. You're entitled to that thought, but a huge number of people don't believe that and they are the ones who are angry right now about this situation with voter intimidation. You can preach it doesn't matter, you can infer that alls well and good with the system and what's going on is legal and morally right and all that.. But, if people ain't buying the meme, you can only ignore that at your peril.. And when the bricks start flying and there is blood in the streets, in large part because the peoples discontent with this system as it's currently being manipulated reaches the breaking point.. It ain't just me and my 'bluster' the RNC and advocates of Reagans so called revolution are going to have to worry about. You can blow me off, and snark all you want but when the shit hits the fan, over all this? Don't say you didn't see it coming.................JD
Login or Register to post comments.