Marriage Equality: Brad Pitt v. Mormons
By Julia Rosen Thursday Sep 18, 2008 12:40pm
(Original version on Calitics. Full disclosure: I work for the Courage Campaign, which is a No on 8 coalition member)
The newest major donor to the No on Prop 8: Equality for All campaign is one Brad Pitt. It comes at a key time in fundraising over the initiative that would take away the right for gays and lesbians to get married. The Yes side is seeing a major surge in donations, flooding into their coffers. In fact, they are out raising us 3 to 2 right now, Brad Pitt's donation included.
Here is what Brad Pitt had to say about Prop 8:
Because no one has the right to deny another their life, even though they disagree with it, because everyone has the right to live the life they so desire if it doesn't harm another and because discrimination has no place in America, my vote will be for equality and against Proposition 8.
The Mormon church is getting heavily involved in the campaign. It looks like about 35% of contributions to the other side have come in from Mormons, or at least that is what they are claiming over at this Mormons for 8 website. A high percentage of the large checks are coming from Utah.
Here is the question: is a religious institution trying to buy this election and change the California Constitution?
They aren't just donating. They are fueling their GOTV activities. Mormons have been invading neighborhoods en mass. They are not using walk lists, but rather descend in large groups to knock doors and try and pass out the million yard signs they think is going to win them this election. It's flat out creepy. It freaks out entire communities and usually the No on 8 campaign hears within a few minutes where the Mormons have decided to invade on any given day.
Look, I don't have anything specific against Mormons. It's just that when a specific religious institution decides to play a large role in a political battle, it weirds me out. Separation of chuch and state....
I know many of you have seen the polls and think we are going to win the battle over fundamental rights here in California. But I have news from you. The other side is winning the fundraising battle. They are energized with volunteers and are counting on a sort of Bradley effect to put them over the top. This is from an email from Dale Bankhead, the campaign manager for No on 8:
You've probably heard that the polls show our side ahead. Some are saying that victory for our side is a sure thing. Don't be fooled! This race is too close to call. The ugly truth we have learned from defeat after defeat in states across the country is that people lie on polls, especially about how they feel about LGBT people. In contest after contest, from Wisconsin to Colorado, we have gone into election day with polls showing our side with 7 to 10 points more support than we actually received at the ballot box.
This thing is close. Want anecdotal evidence? Key campaign staffers and leaders within the gay community are somehow squeezing their long awaited personal weddings in right now. They are not running the risk that they will not be able to get married after the election. So they are taking time out of working on the campaign to get married themselves.
The No on 8 campaign needs your help. This is THE biggest campaign in California and we can't win it without money and volunteers.
So give via the Calitics ActBlue page directly to the campaign. And sign-up to volunteer. They need people in their offices making calls and IDing voters. This weekend there are a ton of field activities to participate in, as the Mormons and others on the Yes side try and pass out their million lawn signs.
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I was a Mormon until 1980, and this sort of politicking is new to me.
For one thing, many conservative groups wouldn't want their help. Their seen as non-Christian and cultic.
We've encounted this with Witch's circles; no one wants our help either, we generally have to work individually through established charities like the Red Cross.
Then they blame us for not having charitable outreaches of our own like "good" Christian churches.
They're seen...
The moron church needs to stfu. When is someone going to start investigating these people? If they want to play politics then it's time for a very intense audit and rethink on that tax exempt status.
Stop spreading misinformation regarding the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints jeopardizing its tax-exempt status because of its involvement in the Yes on 8 campaign. The IRS regulations that prohibit political activity by 501(c)(3) organizations (like churches) apply to supporting or opposing a specific candidate. The regulations do not apply to support for or against propositions such as Prop 8. The regulation that does apply in that situation only kicks in when its lobbying activities (as measured by time, effort, expenditures and other relevant factors) constitute more than an “insubstantial” part of its total activities during a particular year.
See http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=281#q5 and following questions.
As a mormon and a proud Democrat I'd like to apologize and I'll send you a check on behalf of the clear-thinking members of my church (all 6 of us)
Well, you know the Mormons do have a history of freaking out their neighbors. It's one of the reasons, besides polygamy, that they had to move to Utah.
3 Nada
Actually under IRS rules churches don't threaten their tax exempt status by speaking out on social issues, but when they support one party or another or one candidate or another that they cross the line.
That should've protected that one church that preached against the Iraq war, but auditers went after them.
Additionally, such audits could effectually clamp-down on liberal issues like churches that came out against the Vietnam war and for Civil Rights.
Brad Pitt's new father in law is John Voight, a well known right wing actor.
Angelina Jolie, that famous slut who broke up a marriage to steal a husband from another woman?
She's the shining star of fertility. Daughter of John Voight. Right Winger.
So do you all still want to buy their movies?
Go for it. Keep funding the opposition.
Don't you realize if you cut off the funding from these clowns they won't have the ability to make big social changes anymore? They will get stuck at the bottom of the societal rung with the rest of the poor people. And for those who seek to destroy this nation, I think that's where they belong. Where they can't cause so much trouble.
We know they will sit there and sew white sheete, but what the heck. They're easily spotted in the dark.
Now be a good American will you? CANCEL YOUR PAY TV so that they can't profit on our backs anymore?
I guess state sovereignty and the concept of federalism only applies to conservatives when it serves their own purposes.
When it doesn't, fuck it... federalism is for pussies, we're gonna do what we want.
Headline from Salt Lake Tribune yesterday:
Ex-Mormon donates $1M to kill LDS-backed California marriage proposition
Think the IRS will investigate the tax-exempt status of the Mormons like they did the Episcopal Church that spoke against the war. Not likely.
I just got a "Restore Traditional Marriage" vote yes on Prop 8 card in the mail. It also says "On Nov 4th, give California's kids the gift of marriage." It says it was paid for by, "Protectmarriage.com"
I can't fricking stand conservatives. Who the hell do they think they are always telling others how to live their lives. Ya, it's a free country as long as you live the way they think you should. Fuck them all.
VOTE DEMOCRAT STRAIGHT ACROSS THE BOARD IN DECEMBER!
Any church or group of religious people ANY, if they get political they should get taxed.
btw, isn't Orin Hatch a mormon from Utah? Wonder what he says about all this or is he lying low, not saying much and busy shredding documents in hopes of becoming a Supreme Court justice under a McCain administration.
Another big-business masquerading as a religion...tax them all.
You don't ahve anything against mormons? how about a "religion" that is based on the schizophrenic visions of its founder? Mind you, you can say that about pretty well all "religions" since they're all based on fairy tales hallucinated at one time or another.
Do you get magic underwear with those yard signs?
Can we try and ban religious zealots from breeding?
In our newspaper is an article about a former ex LDS missionary that donated 1 million. I am glad that Brad can bring the celebrity factor to get others to help. But I am glad that this guy put his money where his mouth is.
http://www.sltrib.com/faith/ci_10494347
Seperately, regarding Mormon missionaries.
They needn't speak about politics on mission.
They use "missionary" work to INFILTRATE districts that are heavily Democratic to
hang around long enough to register Republican and vote our local lawmakers out of office.
This is how they have used the church to spread their power to every district of America.
When you see missionaries and new churches, you are seeing the republican sneeky snakes moving into your district.
Disgusting! There should be a ban stopping out-of-state contributions to State referendums. It's on the ballot so the _people of California_ can decide.
As long as we have states, with their own votes and elections, other states should stay the heck out. We don't allow foreign contributions in our federal elections, now do we?
Brian @ 14:
Nice one dude.
Yep they "Invade" your home at night and snatch your wife and your children from their beds. Your only hope is that they'll escape is by jumping out of a window in their Salt Lake City Mormon Temple, into Salt Lake. Or they'll be turned into polygamists.
My goodness, a religious person having moral positions. Here I though that only Atheistic citizens are allowed a say in how the government is run. The Constitution says so, doesn't it?
prop 8 will not win
it will not win because it changes california's constitution
and californians are loathe to change their constitution
its as simple as that
The gay ex-Mormon who created WordPerfect donated $1 million to the anti prop 8 campaign.
Someone once said all the Republican want to do is:
Tell you what god to worship
When to have a baby
And who you can marry.
That sums it up for me. And I really don't want them in power anymore.
Dave
Viet Vet
I see things a little different.
1) I am against discrimination..period.
2) If a man and man or woman and woman want to live together, marry, or join in some legal framework, I approve.
What I find even more interesting is that if the arguments in favor of gay marriage include the desire of two loving people wanting to live together forever, or share in medical expenses, or inheritance, then that's okay with me.
The irony is that the Mormons have the history of polygamy. If they played their cards better, they could probably convince some judge that if four women want to get married to one man and no one is hurt, then why does the state have any say in the matter.
I am not against polygamy nor homosexual marriage. If that's what wiggles your tail, then have a nice day.
But keep your fraud of a religion out of my state government. God could give a shit about gays or polygamy.
I do at least like what Jerry Brown did. Some Democrats do know how to play politics, and I love that theocrats and authoritarians are so angry about having truth told on the ballot.
Indeed, yes, please donate money and time to defeat bigotry on the ballot!
But let's also realize something more: We view issues of marriage in terms of simple equality. It would be better to view issues of marriage in terms of equal liberty.
We frame so many issues in America by asking the wrong questions. For a person to seek to marry someone of the same sex is for that person to pursue his or her own happiness. This is about the pursuit of happiness -- one of the inalienable rights in our country's founding document. Each person is equally entitled to pursue happiness, and that's that. The government may not stand in the way, unless it can demonstrate that its proscription is designed to equalize everyone's pursuit of happiness. It's an impossible case to make. My marrying a woman in no way infringes upon anyone else's pursuit of happiness. Or life or other liberties or rights for that matter.
A peek into the authoritarian brain will yield a frightening immaturity: Yuck equals immoral. Immoral equals should be illegal. Majority believes in yuck equals definitely is illegal. For any court to call yuck a right is for that court to subvert the will of the people.
That's it. Dangerously anti-American.
Let's get back to our basic principles: Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness inalienable to all people created equal.
Seems to me Brad Pitt wouldn't mind having a dozen wives
Unless Angelina keeps him saddle sore.
The Mormons are not the only group against this proposition. From what I have heard, most Christian, Muslim, and Jewish churches are also involved. As far as civil rights, this is not a civil rights issue. They already have all the rights and benefits married couples do. This is simply a question as to whether the definition of marriage that has existed since the dawn of time should be changed.
ConstitutionalCommando @ 20:
Hey, bub, if you stick your nose into my sexlife you risk it being chopped off. Live your own damned life and let others live theirs.
My goodness, indeed.
A group that has its own questionable marriage practices (either through its sects or ceremonies) is against allowing people to be joined with someone they love.
The irony is unreal. Mormons must really hate being human beings.
Note to Julia Rosen .... your Spelling needs corrected, your headline should read::
Marriage Equality: Brad Pitt v. Mormons Morons
ConstitutionalCommando @ 20:
This is the most moronic statement I have run across in a long time. Have you ever been to Utah and Salt Lake City nitwit? The great Salt Lake is about 12 miles from the Temple. That would take a pretty good leap. By the way, the Salt Lake has never been close to the temple site. You couldn't reach the lake from jumping off the temple even if you had a hang glider. I doubt you could get enough lift.
♠♠...Bangkok Bob...♠♠ @ 30:
correction included
Brian @ 14:
Do you get magic underwear with those yard signs?
_________________________________________________
Yes
They make your penis disappear.
Yellowbird @ 7:
I'm not sure what your point is given that 1.) they're not married (so there's no father-in-law to speak of) and Angelina Jolie is notably estranged from her father.
Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 21:
Would that it were that simple.
I think that if we win this battle, we should also propose a new amendment to the Constitution. Something to the effect of:
No rights recognized by the California Constitution, whether explicitly, implicitly or through interpretation by the Supreme Court, shall be denied or disparaged except upon passage of an amendment by a two-thirds majority vote of all registered and eligible voters in the state of California.
Amendment by majority of voting voters in crazy.
I am really curious, has any person ever made a decison regarding a candidate or a position based on a yard sign? America justs loves the yard signs, but I can't imagine them having an impact. It is great notfication of a yard sale, but I highly doubt if people make decisions based on a sign in someone's yard.
Seriously, I have never heard a person say that they were all for Candidate A up until that neat sign near exit 3. After seeing that sign, the person's mind was forever changed.
Jo @ 11:
Okay. That's easy to say. But.. would you say the same for the Sierra Club? The American Council for the Blind?
They're all the same under the tax code. Should the tax code then distinguish between religious charitable nonprofits and nonreligious ones?
And if so.. Who wants to write the law defining what, exactly, constitutes a religion?
What we really need, in my opinion, is rather to see to it that the existing laws are followed, and perhaps tightened up. Because a lot of churches out there are, if not 'for-profit' then at the very least, not charitable in proportion to their income and tax break.
Paul7224 @ 27:
They already have the rights? Where did you get that?
Many gay partners are not allowed to attend the deathbeds of their partners because they are not married. How would you like to be kept away from your love's side at such a time?
Also, let's use the hit-by-a-car test - if I am out walking and get hit by a car, my husband automatically inherits my property. If a gay couple has the same tragedy, that inheritance is not automatic.
One hundred years ago, mixed race marriages were illegal in most states. I see no difference between that and the current situation of denying a group of citizens their rights because of the prejudices of another group pf citizens.
And so what if the definition of marriage is changed? How does that matter?
The only straight marriages that might be threatened by gayness becoming more mainstream acceptable are those in which one of the married is actually a closet gay anyway. Like half the Republican Congress...
The Mormons are a cult, period.
Western Religion: Over three thousand years of monotheism. Not a shred of rational proof.
27 Paul7224
The marriage definition isn't since the dawn of time.
It's from the 16th century.
Before then people weren't allowed to marry inside a church, although sometimes they had churchstep marriages, but the monks that performed them could face sanctions.
Marriage was part of a no-man's land for centuries whilst the State and Church fought over who had the right to conduct such rites.
And of course some of the Biblical figures had more than one wife.
And in the early Mormon Church women were often allowed to marry more than one husband, since they had short life expectancy due to murder by "true Christian," and mission work.
It was called androgamy, and didn't mean the Morman man wore his wife's holy underwear.
Hieronymus Braintree @ 5:
That...and a severe shortage of magic underwear.
Paul7224 @ 27:
All the more reason for concern.
See folks? See why pure equality is not the right frame? If everyone is locked in a cell, everyone is being treated equally. And here we have that silly argument that since each and every person is entitled to marry someone of the opposite sex, equality is not denied.
Simply misses the point. The point is an equal pursuit of happiness, not technically equal treatment.
Oh, right. Marriage should remain unchanged. It should remain a property-sharing arrangement, drafted by the families of the betrothed, and in which the female is one piece of the property. It should also remain unchangeable by divorce decree.
I guess you missed the American Revolution. Or you don't know what "revolution" actually means.
Dawn of time. Please. Would that be when humans and dinosaurs lived together in the garden?
Paul7224 @ 27:
Well now, from what you heard is really convincing evidence that it is true. After that you provide the parroted claims that are all false. In the future, when claiming that something is not a civil rights issue, you should really refrain from then speaking about their rights. It tends to only emphasize that it is indeed a civil rights issue as you agree that their rights are a factor by just mentioning it.
Furthermore, the definition of marriage has changed throughout time. In fact, it didn't exist at the dawn of time, unless you would like to discuss the types of Neaderthal and caveman marriages that you are aware of.
You have lovely trite sayings, none of which are based in reality, just ignorance.
My wife was Mormon when I first met her. Thankfully I was able to rescue her.
Mormons are weird. For the most part they are honest-to-good human beings. They are also confused. I think that happens when you're life is dedicated to such a blatant liar (Joseph Smith.)
A GREAT book to read about Mormonism, Utah, the Church, and their history is "Leaving the Saints" by Martha Beck. Highly recommend it.
In the meantime, there's a neat little documentary on youtube that was made by ex-Mormons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1mFdO1wB08
"The Book of Mormon vs the Bible"
There's a lot of stuff in there regarding the accuracy of the Bible that can be question but the doc still pretty much demolishes the entire Mormon faith.
Just saw McPaleosaur on TV railing about how we need "more" Regulations. Wasn't he the champion "Against" regulations, like with the Keating Five (lest we forget that he was one of the five, albeit he did not do time for crime)
5 Hieronymus Braintree
Actually, although I'm not sure how many wives Joseph Smith had, bigamy as a policy started under Brigham Young AFTER they were on their way to Utah.
http://www.kwmmarketing.org/kwministries/JosephSmith%202.jpg
Steve @ 39:
Religion, cult. Tomayto, tomahto.
Alexdem @ 37:
Yes, tax code should distinguish religious and non religious.
And how the hell am I supposed to know who wants to write a law defining a religion. Sounds fairly simple to me.
Paul7224 @ 27:
What definition of marriage, Paul? Polygamy like the ancient Hebrews? Like the four wives permitted by the Koran? How about incest, like among Adam and Eve's kids? Or Lot and his daughters? Or the Pharaohs? Or Abraham and Sarah? 'Cuz if your definition of "the dawn of time" is Genesis, your argument for "one man and one woman" is on pretty boggy ground.
Bottom line, get the fuck out of other people's lives. If consenting adults are involved, it's none of your business, you sanctimonious idiot. Or are you going to wait until the government installs a camera in your bedroom to figure that out?
(And for context, I'm straight, and have been happily married for the thirteen years and counting. So save your projections about me justifying my "sinful" lifestyle. Bigotry and willful ignorance like yours is the ultimately sinful lifestyle choice.)
YES, Brad should since he has owned half of it.
Yellowbird @7
lolwut? Did you read the post before commenting?
Brad Pitt donated in favor of gay marriage.
ashton @ 36:
I doubt that knowledgeable people have ever had their minds changed by a yard sign.
But many people who do not follow politics might see the sign, and think, "Hmm, what's that all about?" In which case the sign works as good advertising, and letting people know that people feel strongly about something.
On a more insidious level, since only the political junkies and uber-civic-minded actually research these issues, people who know nothing about an issue will vote the way the yard sign tells them. "Hmm, I am voting because I want Obama to be the president, but there are all these other things on the ballot. What are they? Oh, prop 8. I guess I'll vote the way my neighbors vote. They feel strongly about it judging by all those yard signs."
Paul7224 @ 27:
The dawn of time? Seriously? Were there written records back at "the dawn of time"? Oh, I know, you think the earth is only 5,000 years old, Adam and Eve were real people, we all rode dinosaurs, the bible is true...........
Karen @ 52:
It's called the "lemming factor".
44 Colin in NOVA
Actually the Bible was written slowly over a period of centuries. The Old Testament about a century or so BCE, and the New from the 4th to the 8th century CE. The early Jews were more priest directed and only after the Diaspora of 70 CE did they rely more on scripture. The Christians slowly collected their scriptures over four centuries in Byzantium. At one point they had an estimated 200 books of scipture, as in the Gospel of so-and-so. Each one would say not to add to them, because they saw themselves as stand alone books, not part of a massive compendium. The first Bible was the Vulgate by St Jerome and was wholly different from what we have today. The first English version was the Tynsdale Bible, followed by King James.
So the book is too nebulous to be used as a comparison for anything.
44 Colin in NOVA
When the lemmings find themselves broken and bleeding at the base of cliff, do they require lemmingaide?
Here is the question: is a religious institution trying to buy this election and change the California Constitution?
I live in utah and the answer is HELL YES they are!
ysbaddaden @ 56:
Actually . . . yes! :)
cubiclegrrl @ 49:
Oooh! I'm so in love with this woman! ;-)
Jo:
Do it a tree for all I care. But most people wouldn't call it a marriage.
Karen @ 47:
Potayto, Potahto...let's call the whole thing off.
49 cubiclegrrl
There's no real basis for the belief that Adam and Eve's children bred among themselves, unless one is a fundie. The early Jews were Henotheists, not Monothests. They believed that the gods of other countries really existed, but were not the one they had the covenant with. Therefore there could be other creations.
Additionally was the belief that some may've bred with fallen angels, and some with the children of Lilith and her demon lover Asmodai.
They've got this crap on the ballot in AZ again; I guess that all of the mor(m)ons and good cree-yist-yins just must have forgotten that we just voted it down two years ago.
Is the LDS religion the only religion that has prophesies of a mor(m)on theocracy in the USA when "The Constitution hangs by a thread?"
These are very exciting times for these spiritually crippled tools.
The Mormon's are definately influencing Prop 8 in California. The Southern Baptist and Evangelicals have taken over the GOP and plan to take over the White House in November. James Dobson (Focus on the Family) is paying HIS team of attorneys to back up Alaska GOP attorneys for Palin. All NON PROFIT RELIGIOUS ENTITIES!
I've been a republican my entire life...but will NEVER support them again. I no longer trust those calling the shots and controlling the party.
Our Democracy is in danger and not from Gay Marriages. Its the 'Wolves who come in the name of God to seek and devour" WE HAVE TO VOTE OUT GOPS IN NOV and WE HAVE TO VOTE SUPPORT GAY RIGHTS. Otherwise, Palin and the Christian Right will "move the gays to an island of their own" (Per Palin). We Catholics will most likey be stonned to death since they say "All Catholcis are whores" (John Hagee of the Palin Evangelical Assembly of God evangelical pentecoastals).
Yes, it apprears that religious organizations are taking over our country...but we can do nothing until we GET THEM OUT OF OFFICE.
To think of a gay supporting the GOP...well, its like a black man/women voting for the Dixie-Crates 1948 Presidental candidate, South Carolina Governor, Stom Thurmond on his ANTI-CIVIL RIGHTS PLATFROM....Both are to vote away your very future and that of your children. FOLKS WE HAVE TO GET THE GOP'S out this year, support Gay Rights and TAKE THE THUNDER from the Mormon's, Southern Baptist and Evangelical Pentecoastals.
60 ConstitutionalCommando Says: Jo:
Do it a tree for all I care. But most people wouldn’t call it a marriage.
_______________________________________________________________
Do trees sprout woodies?
All conservatives, it seems no matter what God they use to justify their actions, are primarily interested in two things - their money and everyone elses' sex life.
coalitions of the various groups targeted by the fundaMENTALists were what it took to beat them back. Now no one is part of any coalition.
NOW
CODE PINK
NAACP
GLBT
Everyone banded together to beat back the dark ages.
When are the lights going to come on.
The media machine has us, each and every one, hateful or distrustful or indifferent or all of those.
While the hateful hordes stand united.
Log cabin Republicans - what the fuck is that about? ("They hate me, but I hate everyone else more, at least as much as I hate myself"?)
Dave @ 23:
Jim: "Lovely sermon today, wasn't it Bob? Jane and little Sarah look lovely as ever."
Bob: "Terrific indeed! Same with Mary and little Billy."
Jim, to Mary, under his breath "God, I hate that prick; let's get the fuck out of here. I've got to get my lawyer to work on that hostile take-over of his company. Thankfully my Jew lawyer works on Sunday..."
ConstitutionalCommode @ 60:
Why, thank-you for speaking for most people! No wonder that you want to be the decider for people as well.
65 ysbaddaden Says: 60 ConstitutionalCommando Says: Jo:
Do it a tree for all I care. But most people wouldn’t call it a marriage.
_______________________________________________________________
Actually according to Robert Frazier's Golden Bough, there were a class of priests that married trees in Greece, and would fight to the death any rival. If the rival wins he's married to the tree and fights rivals in his turn.
It sounds like the basis for a lot of the tales from the Mater de Britagne where rival knight claimants fight over a lady, after a similar breaking of a tree branch as a challenge.
Mick Piobr @ 69:
And somehow my pursuit of happiness depends on what most people might think. How anti-American.
Come to think of it there were in Greece tree spirits or women married to trees called Dryads. Some see a similarity in what may be the linguistic coincidence of the Q group Celt's religious authorities called Druids and their veneration of trees, particularly the Oak.
61 liberalNmoderation Says: Karen @ 47:
Steve @ 39:
The Mormons are a cult, period.
Western Religion: Over three thousand years of monotheism. Not a shred of rational proof.
Religion, cult. Tomayto, tomahto.
Potayto, Potahto…let’s call the whole thing off.
_______________________________________________
Ketchup, Catsup...
ConstitutionalCommando @ 20:
So, do you really believe that GOD, the Limitless Source of the Universe Through Eternity, spends a lot of time worrying about what anybody does with their pee pee?
I've got news for you: Your "god" is a twerp.
Will the Moron Tabernacle Choir now be the official state singing group for California ?
OMG brad pit says it and stuff so we sould like all listen to him!
ysbaddaden @ 73:
Is a vegetable, according to Ronnie Reagan!
Hey Ronnie, you still dead?
bmaher @ 76:
Why the hell not ?
Look how many idiots listen to Chimpy , McDepends and Caribou Barbie , who between the three of them , don't have IQ's that reach triple digits COMBINED.
Cholo @ 4:
Make that 8. My husband and I (also LDS) are very unhappy about what's going on in California. Yes, the church as a whole has strong views but I don't think any church has a place in regulating what goes on with the nation as a whole. We live in a pluralistic society - not everyone has the same beliefs.
Jo:
No. Just knot heads.
Some of you people are so dumb if a popular enough celebrity declared sucking on his dick cured cancer you'd believe him.