Just let the damn businesses fail and go into a depression already!

Putting it off's gonna make the Big One worse!

And Frist!

Don't hold your breath.

Wanna bet we won't see a Nancy and Harry cave on this? I'll bet you $700 billion we will.

Cat Atomic @ 4:

It's not insanity or even stupidity. It's malicious ideology.

They'll bail out the corporate crooks, stick us with the bill, and leave the door open for those crooks to create the same crisis again. They *want* to break the system.

When it breaks they'll jump up and announce that we need to get rid of Social Security, Welfare, and just about every other government expenditure that does anything other than enrich campaign donors or fuel the military.

At the rate the federal government is throwing money at everything and anything, there isn't going to be a military. Americans won't have the money for it.

This is just a ploy to delay the crash. George and his cabal thought they could ride this out until the next Prez gets in. But Karma can be a bitch. Welfare for corporations is against everything true conservatives believe in. The fact that many Repugs have an R next to their name, doesn't mean they are true Republicans, they are the neo-cons, religious nut-balls who hijacked the party.

The price for this public-funded bailout should be regulation of the industry, and a lot of it. Take it or leave it.

this is just a rerun of the 2002 iraq war vote....

so the con goes-- "the risk of doing nothing is unimaginable, we face immient destruction, we need to act immediately, no time to consider..."

if democrats fall for this yet again, i'll vote for donald duck or ralph nader...

this is truly absurd.....

we face imminent destruction-- who says? george bush? he used that line once and it was pure bullshit.

so pelosi will believe him now because she lost half a million in her stock portfolio last week?

Nancy and Harry, report to the Oval Office IMMEDIATELY! Oh and bring Stenny and the donuts.

trevor-es @ 11:

They are ramming this through like the PATRIOT ACT: fast.

fool me once, shame on me...fool me twice.....we don't get fooled again...

i think somewhere somehow the democrats will refuse this crazy bailout, remembering the iraq war vote...

otherwise, this really mucks things up for november

P.D. @ 13:

Well, we're screwed. How much will this cost every American? How many thousands of dollars? Bush really F**ked up the country didn't he? Thank you Religous Right! Your narrow views and ignorance gave us the worst President in history.

they can stop this, the dems will stop this....

there will be no meltdown of the western world, just as there were no weapons of mass destruction....

maybe they'll need to insure moneymarkets, and take some other steps, but buying up a trillion in bad paper?

democrats must and will refuse...

There is a better way out of this and it wouldn't cost the tax payer one thin dime. The Federal Reserve has already blown through half of its 800 Billion reserves in baling out others such as Indy Mac. Paulson wants 700 billion + which will be just jacks for openers. Rather than creating 700 Billion out of thin air to keep this corrupt system afloat on the backs of the tax payer, Congress which is in charge of weights and measures currently states that all of our countries physical gold holdings ( real money ) are only worth $42.50 per ounce. Why, when the rest of the world says that gold is worth $900 per ounce?
Get the price of our gold in line with the rest of the world and buy out the Federal Reserve and cut off the heads of this hydra that has been sucking this country dry for nearly 100 years. I find it quite odd that Mr. Cox of the S.E.C. can call a halt to short selling banks, but when it comes to real money, it is manipulated beyond belief when the real price of gold should be well past $2,000 per ounce with an economy that is currently running an inflation rate of 13%.
If we don’t take a stand now, our children and their great grand children will be slaves to the banking masters. Our Constitution never called for a central bank, but a US Treasury with coin in gold and silver. Getting rid of the Fed would be a major step in the right direction. Even Greenspan agreed that the statists hated gold as a monetary unit because they couldn’t expand the economy fast enough to suit them. So Nixon closed the gold window in 1971 and doomed us to the fate we face todat because gold acts as a relief valve and prevents the continuous printing of more and more worthless money. The problem today is that politicians have become parasites sucking on the teets of the bankers for without them, it is the people who end up controlling their lives and not government, and that’s the way it should be.

ConcernedCanuck @ 5:

Cat Atomic @ 4:

It's not insanity or even stupidity. It's malicious ideology.

They'll bail out the corporate crooks, stick us with the bill, and leave the door open for those crooks to create the same crisis again. They *want* to break the system.

When it breaks they'll jump up and announce that we need to get rid of Social Security, Welfare, and just about every other government expenditure that does anything other than enrich campaign donors or fuel the military.

At the rate the federal government is throwing money at everything and anything, there isn't going to be a military. Americans won't have the money for it.

That's a nice dream but American's first love is their military. I am totally anti-war and would love their war money to run out, as well as the pipe dream of manifest destiny and white man's burden. Thanks for your concern though, it's a sentiment I agree with. ;)

So these CEO's won't go along with the bailout unless they get their multi-million dollar golden parachutes? If they don't get them, they'll let their companies collapse and drag the entire economy down with them? Are they the D.B. Coopers of finance? He was a jijackers, for all you young uns. That's what the Dems need to call these people, hijackers, terrorists of Wall Street.

We were able to read The Patriot Act on-line via congessional records. Has anyone found the actual text of what was sent to congress for this bailout thing? If so, please post the location.

Krugman says this:

I hate to say this, but looking at the plan as leaked, I have to say no deal. Not unless Treasury explains, very clearly, why this is supposed to work, other than through having taxpayers pay premium prices for lousy assets.

He just wants them to explain. I want a quid pro quo. They want a bunch of money, give us a platter full of executive's heads. OR some equivalence for the money. Not a bunch of worthless assets. Give us a fair share of the company plus the worthless assets.

The TPM conditions fall way short, only feelgood.

Here is Nader from this article which starts with his forecast in June of 2000 of what we have today.

From the same article but recent pronouncements. Here, his first condition makes any bailout a quid pro quo. The others largely speak for themselves.

1. No bailouts without conditions and reciprocity in the form of stock warrants.
2. No more lobbying for any company that is bailed out.
3. No golden parachutes and get out of jail free cards for guilty executives.
4. No bailouts without public hearings.
5. Reduce the moral hazard in U.S. mortgage markets by introducing covered bonds for the majority of mortgage products as they do in Western Europe. That gives institutions that finance mortgages an incentive to be prudent, because they cannot just unload them and wipe their hands clean of the liability, but are instead on the hook if the homeowner defaults.
6. Maintain neighborhood stability and housing security by passing a law with a sunset clause allowing below median-value homeowners facing foreclosure the right to rent-to-own their homes at fair market value rates.
7. Avoid future housing bubbles by removing implicit government guarantees for new mortgages that exceed thresholds of greater than 15-20 times the annual fair market rent value of the home.
8. Make the Federal Reserve a Cabinet Position, so it is accountable to Congress, as well as making sure all Federal Reserve Bank presidents are appointed by the President and answerable to congress.
9. Reduce conflicts of interest by taking away power for auditor and rating agency selection from companies and placing it in the hands of the SEC to be administered on random assignment.
10. Implement a securities speculation tax, starting with derivatives to deter casino-style capitalism.

What we have here is the people "solving" the problem
are the very same people who created it!

And, once again, Congress is just sitting on their asses
and letting them do it.

Duh!!

Anyone who expects this is going to make anything
any better is just plain crazy.

During the last 5 years as CEO of Lehman Bros., Richard S. Fuld"s total take was $354 Million.

John A. Thain, the chairman of Merrill Lynch, who has been on the job just nine months, pocketed a $15 Million signing bonus. While his predecessor, F. Stanley O"Neal, retired with a package worth $161 Million. Merrill Lynch recorded an $8 BILLION loss in a single quarter.

Bear Stearns Chairman James Cayne was able to pocket $60 Million by selling his shares AFTER the collapse.

Richard F. Syron and Daniel H. Mudd, the former heads of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae (respectively) are fighting to get their separation packages for a total of $24 Million combined, on TOP of what each earned last year as they rode the bucking steer into the ground.

Jamie @ 24:

We were able to read The Patriot Act on-line via congessional records. Has anyone found the actual text of what was sent to congress for this bailout thing? If so, please post the location.

Jamie, look at this link ("a blank check" above)

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/business/21draftcnd.html?_r=1&ref=busi...

L.A. Confidential @ 25:

Excellent!

http://www.tsx.com/en/images/highRes/Oct12-2007.jpg

These are just some of the guys your bailing out.

DAVOS/SWITZERLAND, 24JAN08 - Richard S. Fuld Jr, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Lehman Brothers, USA, captured during the session 'Myths and Realities of Sovereign Wealth Funds' at the Annual Meeting 2008 of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, January 24, 2008.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/2215686485_d6c8222fcd.jpg?v=0

L.A. Confidential @ 36:

DAVOS/SWITZERLAND, 24JAN08 - Richard S. Fuld Jr, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Lehman Brothers, USA, captured during the session 'Myths and Realities of Sovereign Wealth Funds' at the Annual Meeting 2008 of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, January 24, 2008.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2190/2215686485_d6c8222fcd.jpg?v=0

Richard S. Fuld Jr, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Lehman Brothers

Total Compensation
$71.90 mil

5-Year Compensation Total
$354.03 mil

Amitola @ 35:

Jo @ 15:

Read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein

We will see the last vestiges of The New Deal destroyed by these neoconsevatives.

That was, has been and is the plan. To drown government (that which benefits the people) in a bathtub.

The "shock" was the bailout. The "shock" was the Iraq War. The "shock" was 9/11.

Whatever they can do to cause the massive drain on the economy, or the massive attack on our civil rights has been in the works since before Reagan.

Whatever they can do to remove all regulations for the rich and control the rest of us with a police state is their goal.

The PNAC crowd has been a big part of these plans. Look at the membership:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Projec...

These are the enemies of our country, our Constitution.

These are the traitors in our midst.

Hell, I've been writing that here on C&L for almost 2 years and mostly no one paid any attention. Conspiracy theory, and all that. People are wont to see what's right before their eyes.

There's nothing about what's occurring in our politics, our foreign affairs or our economy that hasn't been planned and slowly brought to fruition over the past few decades.

These are evil people - the neo-cons, Cheney & George HW Bush in particular- evil!

over the years, there were two people in the media who predicted this scenario (not countiing klein)

bernie ward and thom hartman....klein was a bit of a late comer

and yes, all the bailout will do is postpone the inevitable....a worldwide depression

but that is what the wingnuts are countiing on....that the depression will occur during the dems watch...and they will blame it on reregulation of the markets

Senator Bernie Sanders Responds to the Bail out Act....

While the middle class collapses, the richest people in this country have made out like bandits and have not had it so good since the 1920s. The top 0.1 percent now earn more money than the bottom 50 percent of Americans, and the top 1 percent own more wealth than the bottom 90 percent. The wealthiest 400 people in our country saw their wealth increase by $670 billion while Bush has been president. In the midst of all of this, Bush lowered taxes on the very rich so that they are paying lower income tax rates than teachers, police officers or nurses.

Now, having mismanaged the economy for eight years as well as having lied about our situation by continually insisting, “The fundamentals of our economy are strong,” the Bush administration, six weeks before an election, wants the middle class of this country to spend many hundreds of billions on a bailout. The wealthiest people, who have benefited from Bush’s policies and are in the best position to pay, are being asked for no sacrifice at all. This is absurd. This is the most extreme example that I can recall of socialism for the rich and free enterprise for the poor.

In my view, we need to go forward in addressing this financial crisis by insisting on four basic principles:

(1) The people who can best afford to pay and the people who have benefited most from Bush’s economic policies are the people who should provide the funds for the bailout. It would be immoral to ask the middle class, the people whose standard of living has declined under Bush, to pay for this bailout while the rich, once again, avoid their responsibilities. Further, if the government is going to save companies from bankruptcy, the taxpayers of this country should be rewarded for assuming the risk by sharing in the gains that result from this government bailout.

Specifically, to pay for the bailout, which is estimated to cost up to $1 trillion, the government should:

a) Impose a five-year, 10 percent surtax on income over $1 million a year for couples and over $500,000 for single taxpayers. That would raise more than $300 billion in revenue;

b) Ensure that assets purchased from banks are realistically discounted so companies are not rewarded for their risky behavior and taxpayers can recover the amount they paid for them; and

c) Require that taxpayers receive equity stakes in the bailed-out companies so that the assumption of risk is rewarded when companies’ stock goes up.

(2) There must be a major economic recovery package which puts Americans to work at decent wages. Among many other areas, we can create millions of jobs rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure and moving our country from fossil fuels to energy efficiency and sustainable energy. Further, we must protect working families from the difficult times they are experiencing. We must ensure that every child has health insurance and that every American has access to quality health and dental care, that families can send their children to college, that seniors are not allowed to go without heat in the winter, and that no American goes to bed hungry.

(3) Legislation must be passed which undoes the damage caused by excessive de-regulation. That means reinstalling the regulatory firewalls that were ripped down in 1999. That means re-regulating the energy markets so that we never again see the rampant speculation in oil that helped drive up prices. That means regulating or abolishing various financial instruments that have created the enormous shadow banking system that is at the heart of the collapse of AIG and the financial services meltdown.

(4) We must end the danger posed by companies that are “too big too fail,” that is, companies whose failure would cause systemic harm to the U.S. economy. If a company is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. We need to determine which companies fall in this category and then break them up. Right now, for example, the Bank of America, the nation’s largest depository institution, has absorbed Countrywide, the nation’s largest mortgage lender, and Merrill Lynch, the nation’s largest brokerage house. We should not be trying to solve the current financial crisis by creating even larger, more powerful institutions. Their failure could cause even more harm to the entire economy.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=303313

CONgress will fix it.

And, once again, Congress is just sitting on their asses
and letting them do it.

The complete (though ever-changing) elite consensus over the financial collapse

Billy @ 43:

Jamie @ 24:

We were able to read The Patriot Act on-line via congessional records. Has anyone found the actual text of what was sent to congress for this bailout thing? If so, please post the location.

http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2008/09/bailout-proposal.html

Fellow peasants... it is time to get out the pitch forks and torches! Or at least pick up the god damn phone and call your congressional reps and scream like hell!

Oil jumps above $104 a barrel on US bailout plan

We all know this plan is ludicrous and outrageous to the American people, not to mention taking away power and oversight from congress and giving it to the Dumbshit in Chief.

Which is why you can expect the Dem congress to capitulate.

P.D. @ 13:

Well, we're screwed. How much will this cost every American? How many thousands of dollars? Bush really F**ked up the country didn't he? Thank you Religous Right! Your narrow views and ignorance gave us the worst President in history.

And there's more where that came from.

Those bible thumping NASCAR morons are solidly behind McStupid now! They apparently will NEVER learn. I wish we could let the South secede again. They could become the National Republicans of Jebus-land. Within five years (and without the Northern and Western state welfare checks rolling in to pay for their trailors), those stupid bastards would be eating dog turds out of Wal Mart trash dumpsters and living in cardboard boxes - while Bush and the aristocracy became tax free trillionaires!

Meanwhile, the rest of the country would prosper under the republican free progressive government we would have. Those idiots would be begging us to take them back, and ditch the republicans like toxic waste. Those people are soooooo stupid, they infuriate me!

spero @ 55:

I'll never understand why so many ordinary citizens would champion any wealth distribution theory with a name like TRICKLE DOWN. Just examine what the name itself implies. 1% of the people live at the top of the hill and have all the water, and whatever spare drops happen to miss their mouths literally trickle down the hill for the rest of us to fight over.

TRICKLE DOWN should be an insulting term for Repuclican economics, but no its the one they chose themselves! Shame on the public for not noticing a massive slap in the face... right in front of their very faces!

Bill Maher had a quote during the RNC that really summed it all up, "the american people get the leaders they deserve; and right now we don't deserve very good leaders."

I always figured 'trickle down' was just a metaphore for 'piss on the lot of you.'

NoGWBpolicyleftinplace @ 54:

Those bible thumping NASCAR morons are solidly behind McStupid now! They apparently will NEVER learn. I wish we could let the South secede again. They could become the National Republicans of Jebus-land. Within five years (and without the Northern and Western state welfare checks rolling in to pay for their trailors), those stupid bastards would be eating dog turds out of Wal Mart trash dumpsters and living in cardboard boxes - while Bush and the aristocracy became tax free trillionaires!

Wal*Mart would never throw out perfectly good dog turds, get real.

I was hoping to do a little day trading if I retire, so I'm not interested in a tax on stock transactions. That is not what harmed the markets.

What happened is that mortgages were given to borrowers that shouldn't have been given the mortgages, whereupon the mortgages were bundled into collateralize debt obligations, graded AAA by the ratings companies, and then sold to investors. The enabling aspect that made the whole venture profitable was the rating of the mortgage backed securities as AAA by the rating companies. Now, if these securities had been correctly rated as junk, not fit to put on a roll of toilet paper, then the whole mess never would have occurred. I think that a crime may have occurred in the rating of these mortgage backed securities. But, certainly, day trading had nothing to do with bogus mortgages being magically bundled into AAA securities. Collusion between security issuers and the ratings agency is where to start looking.

There is another aspect to all of this that will aggravate this matter which was the abandonment of balanced budgets and the run up of the deficits by the Bush administration in order to give tax breaks to the rich and finance limited world hegemony, starting with the war in Iraq. I think we're over extended already. Now, the plan is to expand the national debt by $1.25 T or so. I think at some point, the borrowing is going to go by the wayside, and the government will start printing money banana republic style. Now, they guaranteed the money markets? The only way that they can honer all these new guarantees is to print money, and that will result in banana republic style inflation. Social Security trust funds are held in fixed interest securities, so inflation will sap that program.

I think the answer is to reinstate regulation to the point where the financial system was last functioning correctly. That means, for example, reinstating the post depression regs on limiting banks getting involved in investment trading. We need to criminalize some of the lending practices that induced people into unsuitable home loans. But, the bottom line is, it's a mess, and we're not going to get out of it without a lot of suffering.

We're going to have to make choices here. Are we going to continue to spend half of what is spent on this planet on military spending? Do we continue to subscribe to the Republican's wet dream of "inherited dynasties" by eliminating the estate tax on wealthy estates, and eliminating taxes on unearned income so that these dynasties can be self-perpetuating? Do we still encourage the off-shoring of jobs, and the elimination of American manufacturing? This wall street fiasco is only one aspect of a litany of policies that are destroying the American economy and the middle class.

MountainMan23 @ 47:

Amitola @ 35:

..

There's nothing about what's occurring in our politics, our foreign affairs or our economy that hasn't been planned and slowly brought to fruition over the past few decades.

These are evil people - the neo-cons, Cheney & George HW Bush in particular- evil!

Mike Malloy has quite accurately called them the BUSH CRIME FAMILY.

I doubt 1% of Americans know the role Prescott Bush & George Herbert Walker played in bringing Hitler to power, and using the German nation not only to wage war and commit genocide but mostly to extract enormous profits.

Or the role Samuel Prescott Bush played in the First World War, again trading other people's blood and treasure for his own profit.

I haven't been the least bit surprised by anything the Bush administration has done.

Nor have I and, unfortunately, I'm afraid the really bad stuff is just beginning. Whoever gets "installed" as our next President will not be able to control the financial cabal that has created this mess - and we will slowly slide into oblivion.

My daily prayer to the sky genie is that Dick Cheney, GHW Bush, GW Bush, Rumsfeld, Rove, Wolfowitz, Jeb Bush, Lieberman, Kristol, Fieth, Perle, Gingrich, Limbaugh, and all of the other neo-cons and affiliates too numerous to mention, will be dragged off to Gitmo and waterboarded, for just a few miutes every hour on the hour, for the rest of their stinkin' lives.

This bill sucks and blows. It's a terrible terrible bill, and a shameless power-grab. (see Naomi Klein)

I've long believed our democracy has been hijacked by the corruption of traitors who on the surface appear to be at each others throats but if you look a little closer you'll see they are all in it together. Never been much with conspiracy theories but on that topic I have noticed something has been afoot for a long time. Its all window dressing folks and nothing more. Its obvious to me they stage a debate or a committee or investigation to give the appearance they are workin on our behalf but how much "ACTUALLY" gets accomplished? A majority (but not all) politicians go to the same schools, belong to the same secret societies and come from the same class. This crisis has been planned for decades to bankrupt this country. It's a neo-con mission statement. Sure a president here and there leaves a surplus when leaving office but its all part of the end game. If both parties allways left a deficit the citizens with little more than common sense would catch on and cry foul. The Denver Mint isn't making the "Amero" for coin collectors folks. This has been engineered and carried out because we are complacent and afraid to act. We listen to people carted out to explain why one plan or another will work but it's propaganda. A few people will surely speak out and call it a scam because it is. Here's the best part. The average american does not understand the global economy and don't have the desire to learn it. So those few people that speak out can easily be silenced. These so called " economy experts" sound convincing enough to us and its infathomable to believe they would lie to us about something so important. Its a classic paradigm. We can't believe our goverment would do something like that so its dismissed as paranoia or a bogus conspiracy. We have been in denial for too long. We need to revert back to our forefathers ideals for this country and clean house by any means necessary. Our Constitution is the spine of our democracy and right now we're quadrapalegic defending it.
This bill will no doubt get passed and to me at least, that would be the very definition of "taxation without representation" and grounds for a revolution. Ponder this for a moment. Our representatives pass a bill that a majority of their constituents oppose. Will they still be representing us? If a majority of a representatives constituents oppose it, on whose behalf will they be passing it? The very same people who helped cause the crisis because all those corporate campaign donations had to buy something.

Of course there's no such thing as a free market. These obviously require laws and regulation to prevent the excesses we are suffering now. Capitalism needs a fair and level playing field.

But don't try and fix the existing broken system - buy it (like a good capitalist) and destroy it, so we can make a new one.

Bush wants to prop up the existing unsustainable mess. Let it fail - it's the only way to move forward.

regnad @ 3:

Don't hold your breath.

Wanna bet we won't see a Nancy and Harry cave on this? I'll bet you $700 billion we will.

Wanna bet that Obama won't give his wholehearted support to this travesty? I raise $700B...

Glen @ 68:

Of course there's no such thing as a free market. These obviously require laws and regulation to prevent the excesses we are suffering now. Capitalism needs a fair and level playing field.

But don't try and fix the existing broken system - buy it (like a good capitalist) and destroy it, so we can make a new one.

Bush wants to prop up the existing unsustainable mess. Let it fail - it's the only way to move forward.

Well, yes...there are two ways to go, I guess. But if they don't prop it up by printing money it all goes to sh*t not just the investment bankers...Everything. And it looks like its not just Bush and the Republicans that want to prop it up. Both Obama/Rubin and McCain/Gramm are fully on board because they know what will happen without it.

Crash. Hard crash.

knifewrench @ 70:

regnad @ 3:

Don't hold your breath.

Wanna bet we won't see a Nancy and Harry cave on this? I'll bet you $700 billion we will.

Wanna bet that Obama won't give his wholehearted support to this travesty? I raise $700B...

You lose.

None of this is a surprise or an accident . The fascist neocon lunatics know exactly what they are doing and everything is going according to plan , they are evil , they are madmen , they are lunatics but stupid ? No . This is all part of their grand scheme . Unfortuantely half the American public are so ignorant and dumb that it is unreal , truly frightening they have supported and enabled these madmen and will continue to . CNN just took a poll , who will be better in this finacial crisis and handling the economy , 43 % Obama and the Dems , 42 % MCCain and the Repugs . What more can I say ? I fear the real nightmare is yet to come . Can't happen here ? It aleady has .

Posting the Register to Vote link again
https://www.voteforchange.com/index_obama.php
There is still time, but no time to waste.
Email the link around and lets generate turnout. The only poll that counts is on election day. We don't need just a win, we need a landslide.
http://www.electoral-vote.com/

The bail outs are sham, all they are doing is expanding he dollar and it is going to crash in on them. Over the course of the next 2 or 3 years the dollar is going to tank, gold and silver are already going up because the world has lost faith. We are headed for an unprecedented depression. In the crash of 29 we held the debt of nations and had a gold standard. Today other nations hold our debt and we are fiat currency. Sorry to say but this is going to get brutal.

Max Keiser hadme rolling on this interview
www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMUN9I0VMok

Forget looking to the government to help anyone, they can't even help themselves now.

Kreskin @ 75:

None of this is a surprise or an accident . The fascist neocon lunatics know exactly what they are doing and everything is going according to plan , they are evil , they are madmen , they are lunatics but stupid ? No . This is all part of their grand scheme . Unfortuantely half the American public are so ignorant and dumb that it is unreal , truly frightening they have supported and enabled these madmen and will continue to . CNN just took a poll , who will be better in this finacial crisis and handling the economy , 43 % Obama and the Dems , 42 % MCCain and the Repugs . What more can I say ? I fear the real nightmare is yet to come . Can't happen here ? It aleady has .

What's more "evil"? The Republicans who took campaign money from investment banks to let their lawyers write the deregulation of the financial markets or the Democrats who took campaign money from those same institutions and did what they were told: Sit there and do nothing.

Kathy @ 53:

I see Cheney's scaly hand in this. Wanna bet if it goes thru as suggested Haliburton & KBR are given huge amounts of money?

Oh God Kathy...Its so much bigger than Cheney or the Republicans. Its nearly every single member of Congress.

The "Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000" (H.R. 4541) deregulation bill passed 377-4.

The "nays" were two Reps and two Dems.

You do the math.

L.A. Confidential @ 34:

L.A. Confidential @ 25:

Excellent!

http://www.tsx.com/en/images/highRes/Oct12-2007.jpg

These are just some of the guys your bailing out.

None of these guys should be out on bail...

I think Obama and McCain's position on this will be the same.

Obama and the banks are too close and McCain will adopt whatever Obama puts out there.

Johnny2Bad @ 67:

Glen @ 65:

It's a FREE MARKET. Respect the free market. You don't prop up failures on a free market - you eat them for lunch.

If Wall St banks want help then the GOVERNMENT CAN BUY THEM OUT AND DISSOLVE THEM. NO BAILOUTS. NO LOANS. Failed banks have FAILED. We cannot prop them up. This will only make the problem worse.

But protect the people of the United States from the Wall St failures. The government is for we, the people, not they, the failed investment banks. Protect and fully fund Social Security. Provide Medicare to EVERYBODY now. And this is only a start. Most everybody will be hurting, potential out of work and requiring help.

Plus it's obvious that the SEC has not been performing the proper oversight required. Regulations stemming from the last Great Depression must be put back in place and ENFORCED. Investigations of bank failures need to be done, and those guilty of breaking the law need to be stripped of their assets and tossed in jail.

No, its not a free market.

"Here are a couple of headlines for those who haven't had the time to study both economics and history:

1. There is no such thing as a "free market."

2. The "middle class" is the creation of government intervention in the marketplace, and won't exist without it (as millions of Americans and Europeans are discovering).

The conservative belief in "free markets" is a bit like the Catholic Church's insistence that the Earth was at the center of the Solar System in the Twelfth Century. It's widely believed by those in power, those who challenge it are branded heretics and ridiculed, and it is wrong. In actual fact, there is no such thing as a "free market." Markets are the creation of government."

Again we find agreement... with one exception... we have seen in this country a rapid decline in the middle class and the wage disparity is now in the US what it was back in the 1920's, the age of "robber baron" capitalism.

The exception is that this hasn't happened in the other industrialized nations of the west. This was the gift of Reaganomics here and wasn't embraced over-seas.

tyree @ 84:

this is all part of the planned dismanteling of the middle class and the final solution to the FDR new deal, when they plant thier boots on your throut and squash your thorax you might before you pass out think about maby i should have invested in that ak47 and tweny fourty round clips , beats haveing big bucks in the bank, its called in the finacial world tangibals ,

Indeed, the ak47 will probably pay better dividends than my 401k!

The government should impose a modest financial transactions tax

WTF, I like my transactions just they way they are. What do you guys want, trade meal tickets for peanuts and leaves and shit? All so simple to you, easy answers all around. Well the world's more complicated, you'll figure that out when you leave mom and dad's basement or get laid a time or two.

Pathetic.

I just wrote to my congressional representatives. I may have been a little emotional.

I figured this deal would stink when I was following the news today, but the details provided here are scaring the bejezus out of me.

Here's what a banker has to say over at the Agonist : agonist.org.

We are once again being stampeded into doing something stupid. Tell your Congresscritters NO DEAL! Let them FAIL! It isn't the end of the world, it's just the end of a bunch of insolvent banks.

Dear Senator Obama-

Chances are most if not all of the major commercial and investment banks are insolvent. Not one of them is opting out of the do-not-short list, and they don't seem to have the confidence in their survival to opt out of the L3 asset swap program Secretary Paulson is proposing.

It is also very likely that acutely dangerous systemic risk already exists, not merely from direct lines of credit among the banks, but especially from credit default swaps, which if activated by more than one large bank default would probably bring down many others. Remember, though, that this systemic risk is highly concentrated in the top 25 or so banks in the world, and does not jeopardize the 6,000 other community banks in the U.S.

Third, it is also highly probable that as this recession worsens, and as housing values continue to sink, forcing more foreclosures, the large banks will be even closer to collapse.

Having worked for many years in the banking industry and been closely involved with risk management and derivatives, I can tell you that it looks like catastrophe is already here.

What Sec. Paulson wants you to believe is that catastrophe is approaching, but it can be averted if only Congress acts urgently to give him the extraordinary authority he is requesting. The implication is if you don't give him $700 billion in borrowing authority within a week, markets will collapse and it will be all your fault.

We've seen this drill before, with the Patriot Act and with the Iraq War authorization. The scare tactics, the urgency, the implied threat of blame for any failure - this is what the Bush administration does. Some of you in the Senate were able to stand up to this pressure, and that type of strength is desperately needed now.

If insolvency is here now for the big banks, the last thing you want to do is throw $700 billion of money that is not yours at bailing out the banks who created this disaster. You'll need every bit of that money to protect the taxpayers and their deposits in these banks when these financial companies are thrown into the bankruptcy courts. You'll need that money to make sure consumer deposits are protected with insurance, and you'll need it to keep the healthy parts of these banks that deal with consumers and businesses functioning until they come out of bankruptcy.

And forget about comparing Paulson's plan to the RTC. These L3 assets aren't homes, condos, or commercial real estate that can be easily sold at the right price. They are bits of paper giving the bond holder the right to some small portion of thousands of mortgages, a right that is shared with all the other investors, who are required to agree on what is done with foreclosed properties in the pool. This is one of the reasons no one wants to buy this stuff, and no one will for many years until it is crystal clear what the final losses will be.

Once you give Paulson the authority he seeks, he will buy these securities at 65 cents/dollar, then quietly auction them off at a nickel each. It will be "unfortunate but necessary" to revitalize the banking industry, even though you will discover the banks won't be lending after this is all over to any but the finest credits. You will have rewarded the banks for their calamitous decisions, stuffed the taxpayers with huge losses, squandered your remaining ability to shore up the FDIC, not prevented the big banks from collapsing anyway, done nothing to help the community banks that will constitute the new banking system in this country when these problems are solved, and in the end made the situation much worse.

If you want to do something practical, require the SEC to go into these banks, open up their L3 holdings to public scrutiny, auction off a sampling of these securities, and apply those prices to the L3 portfolios of all the banks. In this way we will know which banks are insolvent. You won't need to go through this charade of having the Treasury take ownership of these assets, because the core of the problem is not that these assets are clogging up bank balances sheets, as Paulson says (which is tantamount to saying, by the way, that no one will buy them). The core of the problem is that there is no transparency about these portfolios and their real worth. Congress doesn't need $700 billion of our money to create that transparency, and if it shows as I suspect that many of these banks are insolvent, that's why we have bankruptcy courts. You can certainly protect the banks from bank runs while they are in bankruptcy.

Paulson is basically rolling you and the rest of Congress into giving him unprecedented power to protect his friends on Wall Street. This decision you are making is probably as momentous as the Iraq War resolution. Don't fall for this bailout disguised as the only way to prevent Armageddon. Armageddon is already here - at least for the big banks - and it needs an entirely different solution. Spend our money protecting us, by ensuring the FDIC is properly funded, by throwing these too-big-to-fail banks into bankruptcy if they truly are insolvent, by preserving the healthy parts of these banks while in bankruptcy, and bringing them back out again so they function under much better safety and soundness regulations. We've had airlines functioning properly and safely for years while in bankruptcy, and there is no reason we can't do the same with banks.

Please, please, do not fall for some useless compromise or bipartisan agreement that gives the administration what it wants in the end. Kill this proposal here and now, protect us from this bailout, and deal with the real problem - the insolvency of the major banks, not the paper that is supposedly blocking their lending capabilities.

Sincerely,

Foobar @ 94:

The government should impose a modest financial transactions tax

WTF, I like my transactions just they way they are. What do you guys want, trade meal tickets for peanuts and leaves and shit? All so simple to you, easy answers all around. Well the world's more complicated, you'll figure that out when you leave mom and dad's basement or get laid a time or two.

Pathetic.

I don't have enough money to even have transactions, why the fuck should I pay for any of this? It's more your fault than mine. Besides, when the dollar is worth nothing, your precious transactions will be worth nothing, too. But hey, at least it didn't cost you anything!

Rasputin @ 95:

Johnny2Bad @ 73:

I don't share any such certainty as Dodd's aide has and I think it is time to get on the phones and scream our bloody heads off! Get out the pitchforks and torches fellow peasants!

Bad news I think - We're not going to get out of this without a lot of pain and suffering. What we've been hearing from the Republicans is that "deficits don't matter". We can simply borrow to alleviate any fiscal problems. Citizens have adapted that to their personal situations, and it looks like government is ready to bail them out.

So, the policies I'm seeing advocated is intended to stave off a 1929 U.S. depression style economy. But, what the pundits are mute on, is how the current approach will stave off a post WW1 Germany economy where it took a shopping cart full of marks to buy a loaf of bread. That is because the government, in taking on the freddie and fannie, and AIG, and bad subprime mortgage, and money market defaults, has simply assumed more liabilities than the government can pay out, other than by printing currency.

The problems ultimately lie in the American public. John McCain promised more wars. John McCain endorses the Bush tax cuts which has created the deficits. So, where does the shortfall come from, more borrowing? The fact is, sooner or later, the borrowing is going to dry up, at least at the current interest rate, and then inflation is going to envelope the economy. At this point, there is going to be a conflict of interests. The banks, who will be holding onto a large of 4-5% fixed interest mortgages will fail. Of course, people don't know their history, which causes repeats, but I believe that when this issue came up in the late 1960s or 1970s, that people were prevented from assigning their mortgages to the purchasers of their real estate, so that the new purchaser was obligated to negotiate new and more expensive terms on their mortgages. I think that this came in association with fighting a war of choice on credit.

Obama can at best mitigate the situation. Lets hope he doesn't appoint a Bert Lance to Treasury. We're about two screwups ago from having a margin for screwups. Meanwhile, I'm persuaded that white women, Hillary supporters, are ready to vote for Mr. Deregulator, John McCain for gynecological reasons. That's pretty dumb. I notice that we're about two election beyond having a margin for screwups. Remember back in 2000, where one of the issues might have been saving Social Security. But through indignation over the Monica Lewinsky incident, we elected G.W. Bush? Now, the big objective is to keep the U.S. economy superior to that of, lets say, Nigeria?

So, let's continue to not vote, and let the Republicans dictate our fiscal policy. Phil Gramm, a former McCain adviser, calls the current situation a mental recession, and that we're a nation of "whiners". I think we're a nation of dumbbells because we're not ready, en masse, to vote out these Republican ideologues that have been the prime movers in creating the current situation.

Paulson calls any provisions to limit executive compensation a "poison pill." OK. These guys want to play hard ball, let's give them a taste.

Congress should demand that the Treasury withdraw the bailout offer, reinstate shorting (without the uptick rule), let the stocks tank and buy a 51 percent stake in all the troubled firms (at far less than $1 trillion) fire the CEOs and CFOs (without golden parachutes) recalculate loans to current valuations and offer sane repayment plans for those who are struggling.

Tell the arrogant bastards that they will agree to these terms or they lose everything. Take it or leave it.

nohohusseinbear @ 103:

America is doomed. The corporate fascists have won. If you are middle class and have any kind of assets, get out now. Canada, Australia. Build a new life, for yourself and your children. Or be prepared to stay and live through another Great Depression. Only this time, it will be fascist police state.

USA
R.I.P.
1776-2000

And what exactly do you think is going to happen if the US collapses? Everyone else just goes along, hunky-dory? This is a GLOBAL systemic economic collapse we're looking at here. We in Canada will be hit espescially hard, since we're tied to your hip.

So FIX it, America! Short term/long term, whatever it takes just suck it up and get it done. I don't want my country destroyed just because you can't get your shit together! If that means quality of life drops for the average American, TOO BAD! You did it to yourselves. Go stand in time out until you learn how to behave...

Do you trust Bush?

Have you learned NOTHING?

No deals!

America needs a new deal, nationalize the banks and impose some good old fashioned socialism into the system.

Thats effectively whats happening anyway (on the quiet), the Feds are becoming the new owners of everything in America,
AIG, Fanny, Freddie, all the major financial systems, welcome to the new world order (American chapter)

I'm slow, so somebody will need to explain this to me. If $700 billion of bad loans have caused the current meltdown, why not give the home owners the 700 billion directly so they can just pay them off outright--at least that way they keep the house. I mean, why pay the companies that made bazillions and paid themselves BILLIONS in bonuses for making said bad loans. I do not support idiots getting more house they can afford, but I like even less the idea of rewarding the evil ones who have already been well-rewarded...and then letting their CEO's parachute out into piles of gold...seems like it is a simple tax raise for the middle class, in my opinion...

I don’t want my country destroyed just because you can’t get your shit together! If that means quality of life drops for the average American, TOO BAD! You did it to yourselves. Go stand in time out until you learn how to behave…

How many Americans do you think profited from this meltdown? Many of us are f'n furious. This is a betrayal of trust approaching the level of pitchforks and torches. So take your cutesy little "suck it up" and "go stand in time out until you learn how to behave…" crap and shove it.

If Canada is so leveraged in our financial markets that your "quality of life drops" whose fault do you suppose that is? Your government? Your banks? Of course not. It has to be America's fault.

I got news for you, most of us had no more say or control over what these Brooks Brother's retards did than you.

Sec. 8. Review.

Decisions by the Secretary pursuant to the authority of this Act are non-reviewable and committed to agency discretion, and may not be reviewed by any court of law or any administrative agency.

This goes beyond simply a blank check. This is a financial dictatorship.

"Why Paulson is Wrong

The time has come to save capitalism from the capitalists"

http://www.itulip.com/forums/showthread.php?p=49030#post49030

This Bail out will cost all Americans. It might even cost you your homes. There might be fighting in the streets. Why? Because these bills will become due some day and when the real costs of this Bush & GOP mismanagement are realized all hell is going to break lose. Bush is pushing another Band – Aid idea just to slink out the door. Make this personal. These guys are stealing you money left and right. Take the time to find out what is going on before it is too late. Make no mistake about it; this is all of Bush’s mess. Don’t let the GOP play you again. Only a fool keeps getting suckered by false propaganda!

Tom A. @ 117:

NoName @ 112:

I'm slow, so somebody will need to explain this to me. If $700 billion of bad loans have caused the current meltdown, why not give the home owners the 700 billion directly so they can just pay them off outright--at least that way they keep the house. I mean, why pay the companies that made bazillions and paid themselves BILLIONS in bonuses for making said bad loans.

Because in a corporate fascist political system that we now have, they are the ones in control of the Treasury and Fed. That's why this is a blank check, with NO judicial oversight whatsoever. Just another step along the way to dictatorship.
You don't really believe they care about the average Joe, do you?

With this unlimited power, the Treasury and Helicopter Ben can pick and choose who will be bailed out and who won't be. Why the rush to pass this bill?? If this is the greatest economic crisis, you'd think CONgress would delay recess to work on this. But no, they are in a rush. That says it all.

Why not just go for the gusto..shoot, we'll be up to $11 Trillion national debt this week. Just add a few more trillion and send out checks to Americans to keep them happy before elections and pay down debt (or if you're smart, use the money to buy gold or hard assets FAST, before their prices go skyhigh). One trillion dollars here, one trillion dollars there, and pretty soon....you're talking about real money!

This country is ruined politically, economically, morally, intellectually. But in a scant 45 days we can just put them all back in office like we always do.

Indeed, it really is the fault of the people who vote.

This, for what it's worth, is the message I just posted on BarackObama.com. I wrote it quickly because I'm just too angry to stop and think about it. But later today I'll probably spend time rewriting it and sending it to a bunch of other Democrats:

"You want a donation from me? Stand up on this criminal Fed power grab. For years as the housing bubble has formed and exploded, for years as Republicans have whittled away market regulation, Congress has stood by, neglecting its duties of oversight. Now the Republicans come to the Democrats demanding that Henry Paulson can only address this crisis if you hand him sweeping powers, including immunity from the courts -- and it has to happen this week? Are you kidding me? Can't you see this is just another naked power grab by the Republicans? Just like when they lied you into Iraq? Just like all the other lies they've dished out in the name of "security."

"There is not ONE BAD THING that can happen if the Democrats exercise their right of oversight and demand time -- a week? two weeks? -- to actually examine this criminally un-American proposal. After buckling on FISA, on surveillance, on torture, this is the end. You simply cannot allow this to happen.

"Please read the words of those who say it better than me. Glen Greenwald is a start. This is the final stand. Use your position as leader of the Democratic Party to stop this, and you will get my fervent support and what little money I can spare. Don't and there will be no America for you to run."

"2) The government should impose a modest financial transactions tax, comparable to the one in the United Kingdom."

Hate to burst your bubble. There is NO transactions tax in the UK, NONE. There is a stamp duty on the registration of certain securities of 0.5%, but it is planned to abolish that, and it does not apply to over the counter instruments (see below) OR foriegn instruments.

Dean is referring to a "Tobin Tax" which has been implemented nowhere in the world.

"3) Regulatory agencies should require that potentially tradable assets (e.g. credit default swaps) actually be traded on exchanges."

This is a really, really dumb idea.

An instrument that is not traded on an exchange is called "over the counter". The reason why it is not exchange traded is that it is not standardized, but is tailored to each specific deal.

Example. Your mortgage. Is it really practical to standardize mortgages so they have to be purchased in "contracts" of say exactly $100,000 each? So if I want to buy a 450,000 house I buy either 4 "standard mortgages" or 5 "standard mortgages"? You would also have to completely standardize land titles (and probably land taxes as well) in all states otherwise there would be arbitrage opportunities.

The next effect is that anything that doesn't fit into the "standard mortgage" would be unsalable if "non-standard mortgages" were banned.

This is an extreme example, but the same principle applies to many, many of the instruments that Dean is referring to.

By banning over-the-counter securities you will shut down large sections of the economy.

My husband and I frequently talked about the impending economic train wreck. So, how is it that two average Americans with no economic or financial background saw this coming, yet people who should be in the business of knowing didn't, and if they did, looked the other way. Frankly, I'm furious and don't know what to think. Naomi Klein's book, The Shock Doctrine, always comes to mind. Did the Bush administration just allow this to happen, like the way they botched the rebuilding of Iraq? It's hard to fathom such incompetence. But, then when a political Party has such contempt for the functions of government, what do we expect? I watched Kevin Phillips on Bill Moyers last night. He's apparently made a number of accurate predictions over the years, and his prediction for our future is not pretty. He wouldn't come out and say, but sounds like he has a little more faith that Obama would do a better job steering us through this crisis.

Paul Krugman again? Why does C&L keep on elevating to a high status a man who promotes printing money out of thin air as economic salvation?

Lets look at some of his points

1. Combating asset bubbles must be one of the Fed’s key responsibilities. Here, he ignores the fact that the Fed CREATES these bubbles in the first place with low interest rates and cheap money. If you want them to combat asset bubbles, the simplest thing to do would be to tell the Fed not to do a damn thing. Bubbles burst on their own without the Fed's help as all the malinvestments are purged from the easy credit by the Fed.

2) The government should impose a modest financial transactions tax, comparable to the one in the United Kingdom. This can both restrain excessive trading and raise more than $100 billion a year in revenue. There is no such thing as excessive trading. Raising $100 billion a year through stealing for people wanting to conduct business with each other is both immoral and harmful for the economy. The government cannot create wealth- it can only redistribute and destroy it. Anytime you see someone say "And with these taxes we can raise 100 billion of more government revenue!" That's not a GOOD thing. That means the government gets this money and will blow it away on some ridiculous project while you lose money. More government revenue only makes a few richer, those that get the bailouts and subsidies.

5) Fannie and Freddie should remain fully public institutions, returning them to a status comparable to Fannie’s prior to its privatization in 1968. While they operated poorly in the housing boom, making risky loans and becoming overly leveraged, they still acted more responsibly than private issuers of mortgage backed securities, just about all of whom are now out of business.
Fannie and Freddie should be allowed to fail because they are unnecessary and were handled irresponsibly as well. And is he joking with that last sentence? FANNIE AND FREDDIE ARE OUT OF BUSINESS- that's why they're being bailed out! They didn't act more responsible than anyone else. Infact they are MORE irresponsible seeing as they were the ones that give the guarantee on all mortages. Of course private issuers are going to give out bad mortages since there's no real market discipline with that government backed guarantee.

6) The Fed should be restructured so that all the key decision makers (e.g. the open market committee) are appointed by democratically elected officials. Its responsibility is to manage the economy in the interest of the general public, not the financial sector. What difference does this make? We already have a corrupt 2-party system for the President's office, why would something with as much power as the Fed be any different. The fed shouldn't exist in the first place! Its responsiblity of managing the economy is a catastrophic failure. Since its inception the value of the dollar has been continously eroding. Do away with a national bank we do not need one. If the interests rates were set to the market dictated- NO HOUSING mess would've happened. The FED created the housing mess- not the market. This is a fundamental concept that is IGNORED on C&L for some reason.(I honestly don't know why C&L ignores it and blames it on some bad lenders and the ambigious "deregulation". Please read up on the Federal Reserve and how it operates)

Krugman is not OPPOSED to the bailout. Why doesn't this bother any of you? A bailout is not only unnecessary- it is going to be MUCH more harmful to the economy rather than letting people take the losses. Because now instead of only some taking loses- every single AMERICAN has to take a loss. Krugman's "opinions" on the economy(because that's all they are), are worthless and harmful. I'm surprised people at C&L who are for more openness in the government, less corruption, and more freedom in this country can even support anything like this.

Uncle Joe Mccarthy @ 41:

Amitola @ 35:

Jo @ 15:

Read "The Shock Doctrine" by Naomi Klein

We will see the last vestiges of The New Deal destroyed by these neoconsevatives.

That was, has been and is the plan. To drown government (that which benefits the people) in a bathtub.

The "shock" was the bailout. The "shock" was the Iraq War. The "shock" was 9/11.

Whatever they can do to cause the massive drain on the economy, or the massive attack on our civil rights has been in the works since before Reagan.

Whatever they can do to remove all regulations for the rich and control the rest of us with a police state is their goal.

The PNAC crowd has been a big part of these plans. Look at the membership:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century#Projec...

These are the enemies of our country, our Constitution.

These are the traitors in our midst.

Hell, I've been writing that here on C&L for almost 2 years and mostly no one paid any attention. Conspiracy theory, and all that. People are wont to see what's right before their eyes.

There's nothing about what's occurring in our politics, our foreign affairs or our economy that hasn't been planned and slowly brought to fruition over the past few decades.

These are evil people - the neo-cons, Cheney & George HW Bush in particular- evil!

over the years, there were two people in the media who predicted this scenario (not countiing klein)

bernie ward and thom hartman....klein was a bit of a late comer

and yes, all the bailout will do is postpone the inevitable....a worldwide depression

but that is what the wingnuts are countiing on....that the depression will occur during the dems watch...and they will blame it on reregulation of the markets

This my be just a "conspiracy" theory, but, it has been suggested that this scenario is following along exactly as planned. Why? For the complete merger of US/Mexico/Canada's economies into one giant new Europe, along with new currency. A giant dildo sized Free Trade Agreement on steroids.

Korry @ 122:

Ed @ 121:

Tom A. @ 117:

NoName @ 112:

Because in a corporate fascist political system that we now have, they are the ones in control of the Treasury and Fed. That's why this is a blank check, with NO judicial oversight whatsoever. Just another step along the way to dictatorship.
You don't really believe they care about the average Joe, do you?

With this unlimited power, the Treasury and Helicopter Ben can pick and choose who will be bailed out and who won't be. Why the rush to pass this bill?? If this is the greatest economic crisis, you'd think CONgress would delay recess to work on this. But no, they are in a rush. That says it all.

Why not just go for the gusto..shoot, we'll be up to $11 Trillion national debt this week. Just add a few more trillion and send out checks to Americans to keep them happy before elections and pay down debt (or if you're smart, use the money to buy gold or hard assets FAST, before their prices go skyhigh). One trillion dollars here, one trillion dollars there, and pretty soon....you're talking about real money!

This country is ruined politically, economically, morally, intellectually. But in a scant 45 days we can just put them all back in office like we always do.

Indeed, it really is the fault of the people who vote.

Yea, I can see where all of this would have been avoided, and America would be in much better shape if none of us voted.

What in incredibly stupid thing to say.

I don't know what you mean by "America" but, unless you're looking to avoid responsibility, you have to admit that a lot of destruction would have been avoided if people didn't vote politically.

Agreed. Do Nancy and Harry have the guts to demand the "Progressive conditions for a bailout"?

$2,333 for each living American today. That is the cost at 700 billion with 300 million citizens. Written about here

"Hear that, Nancy and Harry? No more caving…no more blank checks. Anything less is insane."

Commentary was going good until the end. Crap, we're doomed.

Insanity: Quoting Albert Einstein on the same tired insanity definition over and over even though there is no real source that he ever said it.

Everyone in the US needs to read this... and call every one in Congress tomorrow!

Everyone in the US needs to read this... and call every one in Congress tomorrow!

Everyone in the US needs to read this... and call every one in Congress tomorrow!

Wall Street bailout plan explained, universally reviled
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/21/11359/7555/652/605498

This is a compilation of leading economists responding on why this nightmare Act must not be allowed to pass!

This is an absolute must do... and don't wait because it will all happen this week... call first then write to congress and pass this on to everyone you know.

As soon as we realize words mean NOTHING in this climate we might use ACTION instead.

We can yammer until the end of time while the fascists close in around us.

Abbybwood @ 52:

ohio progressive @ 14:

trevor-es @ 11:

They are ramming this through like the PATRIOT ACT: fast.

fool me once, shame on me...fool me twice.....we don't get fooled again...

i think somewhere somehow the democrats will refuse this crazy bailout, remembering the iraq war vote...

otherwise, this really mucks things up for november

Where is Paul Wellstone when we need him????!!

Murdered by cheney...for the "crime" of knowing what the neoon thugs were up to: high treason