Hate Crimes Against Dayton, Ohio Mosque
By Nicole Belle Sunday Sep 28, 2008 8:15pm
There's been a huge debate within the newspaper world -- and beyond -- about a fiery DVD targeting Islamic extremism called "Obsession" that over the last couple of weeks has been packaged in newspaper ads and distributed to hundreds of thousands of readers, especially in swing states. (The Philadelphia Inquirer was one of those papers.) Proponents say it's an honest portrayal of anti-American jihadism, while critics said the video would stir up hatred toward decent God-fearing Muslims, not just those involved in or supporting terrorism. Some wonder if it's all just a big ploy to help John McCain and the GOP, who want to focus the campaign on the threat of Islamic extremists. [..]
There's no more key battleground state in America than Ohio -- and sure enough thousands were delivered there on Monday in a number of newspapers, including the Dayton Daily News, which is in a hotly contested corner of the Buckeye State.
Four days later, this happened as Muslims in Dayton attempted to worship:
DAYTON - Baboucarr Njie was preparing for his prayer session Friday night, Sept. 26, when he heard children in the Islamic Society of Greater Dayton coughing. Soon, Njie himself was overcome with fits of coughing and, like the rest of those in the building, headed for the doors.
"I would stay outside for a minute, then go back in, there were a lot of kids," Njie said. "My throat is still itchy, I need to get some milk."
Njie was one of several affected when a suspected chemical irritant was sprayed into the mosque at 26 Josie St., bringing Dayton police, fire and hazardous material personnel to the building at 9:48 p.m.
Someone "sprayed an irritant into the mosque," Dayton fire District Chief Vince Wiley said, noting that fire investigators believe it was a hand-held spray can.
Many in Dayton are wondering if the mass distribution of "Obsession" has anything to do with this. It's unclear whether or not this was in the works before or after the attack on the mosque, but religious leaders were meeting in Dayton yesterday to talk about the DVD:
The Rev. Gary Percesepe, executive director of Greater Dayton Christian Connections, characterized the DVD as "fanning the flames of fear and prejudice against Muslims, with the potential to inspire hate crimes."
I've said that I have some practicing Muslims in my family (as well as Jews, Catholics, evangelical Christians and atheists, we're one big mixed-faith family). This kind of dehumanizing of people sickens me. And you see the result: blind acts of violence on innocent victims. And yet I'm sure that person feels superior to the "terrorists" he hates, rather than recognizing he has become one of them.
Jon Perr has more examples of the GOP getting their hate on.
Login or Register to post comments.
Shame on The Philadelphia Inquirer for allowing such a hateful advertisement in their newspaper.
What are we becoming as a society? It's embarrassing and on the part of the terrorists who sprayed into the Mosque, criminal.
I just got a copy of this DVD in the mail today. I guess I was correct to donate it to the trash truck.
Can somebody please tell these morons that Jesus was not white?
Can't believe they let that shit in the paper. How sad for those people.
And WELL SAID xtien . . . Jesus was somewhere between brown to black. He sure as HELL wasn't white with blue eyes. I don't believe he ever existed . . . but I digress =)
I watched this video, there were veiled things like a cleric saying the white house will become the black house and take over the world, and the white house will become the muslim house.
I have no problem with the DVD, as long as every copy is accompanied by another DVD called "Imperialism" that outlines and catalogs all the civilians killed by airstrikes and crtuise missiles since 1979, and information in the 'extra's' that document acts of military aggression committed by the United States since the Islamic revolution took place in Iran.
This will allow the viewer an ability to understand why terrorism exists in the first place.
the "obsession" CD was put in all of the sunday's "macomb daily" here in macomb twp., michigan-I contacted the editorial & the
publisher today complaining & siting the hate problem in ohio-I think we should all complain if we see this sort of hate & scare
program by the republicans-
This crap was actually mailed to homes in Florida (mine included) and most people simply threw it out with the trash. The people I spoke with said they were tired of all this fear-mongering trying to influence their vote. A lot of people have wised up to the ways of the reichwing.
Lisa D @ 5:
I wonder if they didn't actually mean the actual theological term Dar al-Islam (house of Islam)
Which, to quote wikipedia: "is an islamic term used by Muslim scholars to refer to those countries where Muslims can practice their religion freely."
(it's also known as Dar al-Salam - house of peace.. also the name of Sudan's capital.)
Rumor has it that members of the jewish faith are behind this DVD being distributed? Someone is spending a shitload of money to send out this GARBAGE.
That DVD is pure propaganda from what I've heard. The official story is breaking down under scrutiny, and this is just a sorry attempt to put the old fear and thoughtlessness into those that watch it.
this sort of demonization of muslims is exactly why i felt obama should have countered the so-called "muslim smear" with more than just protestations and public professions of his christian faith . . . he should have taken the opportunity to attack the bigotry that motivated the use of muslim identity as a smear
the facts are that muslim and arab americans are some of our most productive, best educated and peaceful citizens . . . and how they endure, despite generations of discrimination and abuse, is a mystery to me
Why isn't this all over the news? It's a terrorist attack isn't it? What do you think would be happening right now if this had happened in a Christian church?
gop = grossly obsessive pricks
I wish someone would explain to me why "Fearing God" would make any sense.
Religion is such a bad idea. Is there any way we can end the carnage?
Damn! This whole incident reminds me of the killing of the four little girls at the Sixteenth Street Baptist Church in 1963.
Some things never change.
Jo @ 16:
What are you talking about? We have a whole new set of untapped victims to scapegoat for our failed moral values.
Red Headed StepChild @ 13:
When I read about this on Daily Kos I tried to Google it. Nothing came up but the news printed in a local paper.
Where is our fucking FBI? This is an act of terrorism!
That's despicable.
My friend got a copy of the DVD in the mail. We all had a laugh (although we never watched it.) Obviously put out by some Christian-right wackaloons. If there's one group who's opinion of Muslim wackaloons I don't care to hear, it's Christin wackaloons. Pot, kettle, etc.
xoites defends Constitution @ 15:
Saying "all religion is stupid!" as a comment to a story on hate-crimes is rather insensitive. Like.. If you're going to criticize Judaism, wait until the Nazis have left the room.
Lisa D @ 5:
That will definitely get the Repubes a few votes in the hate belt.
On the other hand, here's some great news from Ohio:
State, federal courts uphold early voting in Ohio
Religions seem to have the opposite effect on people than what you would think. It seems somehow to breed bigotry and hatred instead of love.
Just look around the world right now, most of the hatred and violence we see has been brought about by religious ideology. Even in the deep south of America, the churches are separated, they have AME churches for the black people and Baptist etc. for the whites.
The more religion spreads the more we will see fighting and hatred. They say people who are atheist are unhappy, well, I'm not unhappy and certainly not bigoted. These ideas must be preached from the pulpit, they must whip their flocks into some kind of lather and send them out with heart full of hate.
I live amongst Buddhist, I have no problem with them nor they with me, but i think of Buddhism more as a philosophy that a religion. here all life is sacred, the world itself is sacred. I can live with this more easily than i can live with christianity.
This mass distribution of propaganda intended for the SOLE PURPOSE of scaring the public into NOT voting for Obama is a textbook example of why the FCC should break up the media conglomerates.
If you haven't seen this speech from Bobby Kennedy Jr., please watch it:
http://www.truthout.org/video/robert-f-kennedy-jr-rove-has-already-plann...
Hmmm
Where are these FREE movies on non election years??... or 6 months ago???
xoites defends Constitution @ 17:
What I am talking about is that it doesn't matter the race or religion, there will always be the haters of anyone who doesn't look or believe in a white, so-called "christian" country. I may not have put it well, but the men who sprayed into that mosque are just as hate-ridden as the men who planted that bomb and killed those four little girls.
xoites defends Constitution @ 15:
Right on xoites. The first step is to somehow tax all churches, temples, mosques etc. If they do something local that is charitable and non-religious then they claim that as charitable tax thingy. That will at least stop some of the funding that somehow gets to the hate-speech type faithful folks.
What was it Friedrich Niezsche said about staring into the face of the abyss and becoming one with it?
I druther become one with Jacqueline Bisset.
Alexdem @ 20:
Did i say that?
Nope.
What i could say is that we have a serious problem with religion dictating foreign and domestic policy on this planet, not to mention being the "moral" justification to harass, torture and kill other human beings. I can't see any logical reason for people to continue to be superstitious about something when all scientific evidence is unable to support the existence of a God. ANY GOD.
I can easily prove to you or anyone else that believing in God or any God tends to lead some (dare i say "many") people to do irrational and criminal things that are destructive and counter productive.
If that is "insensitive" of me, so be it.
Or as they say in church: Amen.
I hate the term "haters."
Jo @ 26:
That was a snark. I was supporting your position.
ysbaddaden @ 28:
I think the idea of nothingness when you die is a lot easier to handle than worrying whether or not you crossed all the t's for the guy in the sky and whether or not you will burn forever in a hell. Nothing is so much easier than the cruel spirit thing.
And WHY are they never movies like.. Life and Debt... Earthlings .. In Debt we Trust... Wallmart exposed.. Black Gold...
xoites defends Constitution @ 31:
Sorry. I have been Palinized. (the new term for dumbed down lately)
☺☻Bangkok Bob☻☺ @ 23:
American Wacko Christianity is a Cult, not a Religion.
They violate fundamental teachings of their own main man. Jesus told his followers not to follow the hypocrites who pray in public, whether on the streets or in the temples. And yet one of the first things their converts are asked to do is pray together with Reverend BillyBob and the rest of his followers. Thus the new member joins the group of Reverend BillyBob's followers. That is a cult. They follow their leader. That is not a religion, where the individual practitioner is responsible for his own behavior, his own link to the Divine, whatever you want to call IT.
Alas, there are Buddhist Cults too. None of the World's Great Religions is immune, but ALL the World's Great Religions include individuals who attempt to live the simple religious life as described by Jesus, Gautama Buddha, and others.
Here's the real kicker: Extremist Muslims don't necessarily hate the west. They hate US foreign policy. They don't 'hate our freedoms'.
Osama bin Laden himself not only dismissed but mocked Bush for saying that. "If Bush thinks we hate their freedoms," he said, "he should ask himself why we don't attack, say, Sweden." (A country which bin Laden visited as a kid. I guess he liked it. The Swedes were certainly grateful for being 'let off the hook')
Of course, there are quite a few 'inconvenient truths' about US foreign policy.. it'd be a very dangerous thing for the folks in charge if people started realizing what's really going on out there. Like how, as an American, you might not actually get killed instantly on the Gaza Strip. An American friend of mine went there and the general reaction was expressed strongest by a lady who came up to him on the street and said:
"Thank you! Thank you for coming here and seeing for yourself the conditions we're forced to live under!"
☺☻Bangkok Bob☻☺ @ 32:
Human beings naturally know when they are doing the right thing and when they are doing the wrong thing. Psycopaths and Sociopaths are the exception.
It is time for us to take personal responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming/relying on a "Supreme Being" to punish/anoint us.
Jo @ 34:
Here's a Palin answer from a Palin Generator.
***********
Q: How will you fix the economy?
Our economy and putting it back on the side of the people. It's a nice thing about him, too, is he is not to allow the export bans to such a degree that it's in their benefit, also, a mutually beneficial relationship for us all to be ushered in. democratic country, unprovoked, is unacceptable and we have been blunders along the way, though. There have been blunders along the way, though. There have been mistakes made. And with new leadership comes opportunity to meet heads of state these last couple of weeks it has been allowed to be a comprehensive, long-term solution found for this problem that we work with our allies to help shore up our economy and putting it back on the war on terror.
Here's the LINK for the generator.
Jo @ 34:
No problem. Sorry i upset you. :)
☺☻Bangkok Bob☻☺ @ 32:
I like the Native American way of returning to your ancestors. Being part Native American, I walk among and learn from those who have gone before me. I see many gods in all things natural and in the undying spirit of those who create art and storytelling. I am very peaceful about death. It is a part of Nature. The older I get, the easier it gets to accept my place in the scheme of things.
MountainMan23 @ 35:
We are all responsible for our own behavior, regardless of which groups we belong to.
☺☻Bangkok Bob☻☺ @ 38:
She really said this? She is insane.
29 xoites defends Constitution
Science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of deities, because they can't even form a scientific question, and put something quantative under study, that can then undergo verification and replication
In philosophy classes, one of the first things they teach you, using the Socratic method, is that you can't even prove that you yourself exist.
Under solipsism and nihilism it gets even murkier.
And people do irrational and criminal things that are destructive and counter-productive for almost any cause, because their irrationality makes irrational any of the excuses they would make for their behavior.
Aristotle spoke in the Nichomachean Ethics of Primary Goods and Secondary Goods, the Primaries being like prime numbers, indivisible, and so they are the ultimate aim of the secondary goods.
That sounds like a way of describing the infinite without Deism of any sort.
But I would agree that, "we have a serious problem with religion dictating foreign and domestic policy on this planet, not to mention being the “moral” justification to harass, torture and kill other human beings."
And as a Witch we are often tarkets of such harrasment.
Praise Bob!
Jo @ 40:
I like that, that is pretty much the way i feel about life and death. I'm 71, so not to much of the path is left to travel, but i feel ok with that.
I have to go off-line, just got a pop-up window that said anonymityanywhere has been hacked and that is my gateway to the US since the Patriot Act.
Ciao
xoites defends Constitution @ 29:
Yes, it's insensitive because the religious folks are the victims here. Muslims do believe one should fear God.
Your first reaction to the story is apparently to ridicule that. Which is literally adding insult to injury.
In Canada, this would be considered a "Hate Crime". The people responsible for these disks could be prosecuted for promoting hatred toward an identifiable group. The people spraying the chemical could be charged under the same law.
rduke @ 25:
Good point, if I can find mine in the trash I will return it and request Sex In The City instead. In fact, everyone who gets this should bombard them with letters pretending to confuse them with Netflix or something.
Alexdem @ 45:
I see, so because i think Christians and Muslims and Religious Jews are full of crap i am being insensitive to Muslims.
I learn something new every day.
Tell me teach, Does the Universe revolve around the Earth?
Me drunk now, me go....
ashton @ 47:
I have a better idea. Why don't we collect them and rent a dump truck and dump them on their front lawn?
Thank You for posting this Nicole.
Maybe a fleet of dump trucks.
Alexdem @ 45:
By the way my first reaction to the story occured over 12 hours ago when i first heard it. You were not there, were you?
You are not the Holy Spirit are you?
Outwestern @ 46:
What if someone who lurks here @ crooks and liars loses it, and discharges some pepper spray in their local republican congresspersons office, and the people who maintain Crooksandliars...are found to be responsible for promoting "hatred" for republicans? ...that would suck!....no?
Rasputin @ 51:
I second this. When I first heard this story, it broke my heart. This is most definitely what happens in an atmosphere in which fear and ignorance is played up as a virtue by those GOP crooks.
I hope they find these people and throw the book at them.
burpster @ 10:
Before I donated my copy to my Rumpke (refuse collection) representative, I read the inside of the jacket. (No, I didn't watch the dvd.)
I can't tell you that members of the Jewish faith are behind it being distributed, but I am certain that it was created/produced by people of the Jewish faith. If there's any doubt, just use your favorite search engine and find out for yourself.
Here in Portland, the Oregonian distributed these yesterday. Some are framing it as kudos to the Oregonian for Free Speech victory. Even among people I fully respect; this is NOT a free speech issue.
republicans are a bunch of white people desperately hanging on to there power. they will lose all hatred loses sooner or later
I’ve been over this debate for a while (as in – I’m over it).
I do often wonder if the same repertoire was being performed by the Egyptian Priests over Ra, or in the Greek Temples over Hades?
Just substitute these names for Jesus, Mohammad, or Moses and it reveals how silly it all sounds. “Does Poseidon really control the sea?” or “Should we really give our bread to Horus at the Temple?”
One thing remains after these thousands of years though: if you’re unsure, the priests will always be there to sort it out for ya (for a fee)...
odanny @ 6:
There is a video called Hijacking Catastrophe that documents how Neoconservatives have harnessed hate and terror for decades. Not exactly what you described but I think it would be an excellent alternative to Obsession. It shows how similar the Neocons are to the Islamic fundamentalists they supposedly are fighting.
I live in Dayton and know first hand that this kind of hatred is not uncommon in this area. Hate groups have many roots in the Dayton area.
In the nineties, Dayton was home to one of the largest Aryan Nations groups in the country. The heir apparent to the national organization, based at Hayden Lake Idaho, was Ray Redfearin who lived in Dayton. The two assassination plots against Morris Dees were conceived and carried out (as far as they got before being foiled) by people from Dayton. The bombing plot against the Earle Cabell federal building in Texas, that was going to be bigger than Oklahoma City, was conceived in Dayton.
A&E is in the middle of filming a documentary, for their new investigation channel, about the undercover investigation into the AN that took place in Dayton. The documentary is based on a new book, Into the Devil’s Den, a dual memoir written by the undercover agent that infiltrated the Aryan Nations for three years and the Special Agent form the FBI who sent him in and barely got him out alive.
Taarak @ 62:
And political power.
Terrorists have attacked within the United States again.
Mike @ 56:
OK, so I googled "Obsession DVD" and "Obsession DVD jew" and didn't find anything indicating this was created/produced by people of the Jewish faith. I did find comments on a Jewish blog decrying the racism of the video and this bit about the rumor that the Jews are behind the newspaper promoting it: "Incidentally, I received a number of queries (or accusations) as to whether
the editors and owners approved this because they are Jewish. The fact is that none of them is. Nor does anyone in management at The Blade want to inflame tensions with Jews or Muslims." from: http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080928/COLUMNIST... Fighting anti-Islam bias doesn't justify anti-semitism.
Dan B @ 66:
Here is a photo of an earlier attack.
milquetoast @ 54:
No, that's normal political dissent in some places. It's already happened at an all candidates meeting where I live.
milquetoast @ 54:
Did you actually say that out loud? As if you thought it made any sense?
Are you sick? Have you seen a doctor recently?
Shane @ 57:
Yeah, great timing too (Ramadan, Eid). I can hardly wait to see what this group does after Rosh Hashanah (or any other major non-Christian holiday).
It wasn't about free speech, it was about money ("I've always felt we have an obligation to keep our advertising columns as open as possible," said Stickel [publisher of The Oregonian], who viewed the DVD. "Our acceptance of anything -- our acceptance or rejection -- does not depend on whether or not we agree with the content. . . . There is a principle of freedom of speech involved here. I could find no reason to reject this.")
Yeah, right.
I received this DVD in the mail in Chesterfield, MO, a republican stronghold. The return address is The Clarion Fund, 255 W. 36th Street,Suite 800, NY,NY 10018. The Clarion Fund is an offshoot of Aish Hatorah, an Israeli organization. It's also a 501(c)(3), so how can they get away with this obvious and egregious attempt to influence the election?
Christine @ 69:
If they did not mention a Candidate by name they can do that legally. I have not seen the DVD so i do not know.
xoites defends Constitution @ 70:
I should say "endorse" not "mention." Sorry.
☺☻Bangkok Bob☻☺ @ 38:
F'ing hilarious! We know now how her speeches are written...
xoites defends Constitution @ 50:
If there is a mailing address, put them in envelopes with their address as both addressee and sender, without postage. They will be delivered by USPS with postage due.
fastfeat @ 73:
If you are going to do that wrap it around a brick!
ysbaddaden @ 43:
Again ysbaddaden, thank you for injecting some sense into this convo.
And with that I'd just like to add that religion per se is not the problem so much as it is consciously manipulative or unbalanced people who warp a religious ideology to justify their own ends. The same can easily be said for other, more secular ideals as well (capitalism, communism, and animal liberation groups come to mind).
fastfeat @ 73:
Niiiiice. I know what I'm doing if I get this shit in the paper...
xoites defends Constitution @ 74:
You must be one of those guys that put sand in his aluminum cans before crushing them and taking them to the recycling center...
Let's call a spade a spade: that's not a hate crime, that's terrorism.
ashton @ 47:
Thats a great idea. :)
Christine @ 69:
I'd love to trace this organization backwards to fund their connection to the neocons
*find their connection
MikeD @ 60:
ysbaddaden @ 43:
That's a common view of science but IMHO not correct. Nietzsche for example didn't share that view at all. He often pointed out when talking about Philosophy, Psychology, and Philology that you don't necessarily require have to have a microscope or mathematical formulas in order to do science. At its core science is a methodology founded on reason. We often come up with useful constructs as part of a theory that at the time we have no way to measure and we can go down dead ends when we insist that science is only what we can measure. One of the best examples was behaviorism in psychology. Behaviorists ruled out any concept of cognition because they had no way to measure it and they restricted all psychological constructs to be things that they could measure and quantify using the tools they had at the time. This was a total dead end when it came to completely understanding human psychology.
As Richard Dawkins points out in the God Delusion saying that God exists is a factual claim about the nature of reality that can be subjected to the same kind of analysis as any other claim. Once you do that you see that the God hypothesis can't really stand up very well to rational analysis.
MikeD @ 83:
Dawkins forgets that you can not prove a negative nor can you calculate the beauty of a sun set with a tape messure.
someguy @ 84:
You mean you can't measure an apple orchard with a shot glass?
MikeD @ 64:
Raphael Shorehttp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487116/
"Israeli-Canadian film writer and producer employed full time by Aish HaTorah.[1][2] He is the founder of The Clarion Fund, a non-profit organization that seeks to advance the idea that the United States faces a threat of radical Islam."
(Source : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Shore )
it's disgusting what's done to children in the name of religious intolerance.
someguy @ 84:
Have you read his book or heard him speak? Here are some links: God Delusion Video, God Delusion Lecture.
He actually talks quite clearly about the fact that you can't prove a negative. He uses the Bertrand Russel analogy about disproving that there is a teapot orbiting the earth. The point is just because you can't disprove that God exists is no reason whatsoever to believe he/she does. If you want to be a rational person you need to come up with some evidence, and saying that a book says so or that you were raised to believe it doesn't count. This is an example of what I mean by applying the scientific method to the God hypothesis. When we do science we rule out things like arguments based on authority or arguments based on tradition. And the same goes for arguments based on aesthetics.
The idea of God may be beautiful to you but that is not a rational justification for believing its true.
MikeD @ 64:
I found this:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0487116/
One of the writers, Raphael Shore:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Shore
It wasn't "a fiery DVD." It was bull shit propaganda.
The game plan is to out radicalize the radical Muslims. Go for it moron baby Christians.
We must keep Armageddon on schedule so Jesus comes back and raptures you useless, brainwashed consumer dip shits.
MikeD @ 87:
Read it and laughed.
Have you read On God: An Uncommon Conversation by a little author called Norman Mailer?
obsession... for men
MikeD @ 64:
Unfortunately, it seems that is Jewish backing for same St. Pettersburg Times. I agree, anti-semitism is as bad as anti-islamism( anti-Semites are, by definition, also anti arab), but it does seem like the Clarion Group is funded by Aish HaTorah. It's too bad, really. A group of crazy racists in Israel are causing a hateful campaign of racism is our country.
There ought to be a law.
PaulFromPhilly @ 93:
Yup. I agree on both counts.
someguy @ 91:
I haven't read that one. Maybe I'll try looking it up. I've never been a fan of Mailer even though many people I know love him. Except for The Naked and the Dead I've found all his writing to be self indulgent even though I like other hard boiled stream of consciousness type authors such as Hunter Thompson. In any case though I might find some interesting prose in Mailer I wouldn't expect to find much in the way of well reasoned arguments. Why exactly did you think the God Delusion was funny?
The funny part is, for no amount of money could you get these newspapers to distribute Richard Dawkins' most appropriate DVD The Root Of All Evil? which answers not only extremist Islam, but extremist Christianity and all other paranormal claims. A truly rational documentary that exposes all of the hatred. It will never air in America.
I assume the DVD is hate-inducing propaganda, but never having seen it personally I'll be generous and reserve judgement.
This terrorist attack, however, is about as enraged as I've felt about anything in years. Yes, nobody was killed or (I assume) even seriously injured, but this is an outright terrorist assault on *children* at a house of worship, and I can only assume it's 100% homegrown.
Imagine, for a second, if an immigrant from, say, Iran (or more likely Saudi Arabia) had sprayed a chemical agent of any sort into the sunday school room at an Evangelical church. I would be horrified, and it would be the top story on every news network for the next week, and probably be brought up by hard-line rightwingers for years. They'd probably put restrictions on the purchase of spray cans or something, too.
Here we have something every bit as horrifying and offensive, but I'm pretty sure it hasn't made much of a splash at all in the big news networks. Ironic, even, that it's *proof* that there are, indeed, willing (if not particularly able) "terrorists" in the US, and anything and everything should be done to stop them. It just happens (again, I assume, though admittedly there's a small chance it's not the case) that they're US born and bred, and the innocent target is the supposed source of all those nasty terrorists that the government tells us we should be so afraid of.
We have seen the enemy, and they are we.
xoites defends Constitution @ 15:
It is not Christianity that is bad - it is the perversion of The Word for selfish hate mongering that is bad. Christians are instructed over and over to "Fear not" in the presence of God. "God-fearing" should actuially be "God - in awe, in praise and in gratitude". The idea that God would favor the GOP is pure idiocy perpetrated upon those with little curiosity by those with big egos. If actually read and followed, the Bible is a recipe for tolerance and peace. God loves us and wants us to love each other. Period.
Christian and Liberal in CT.
I live in Michigan and just found this trash in my mailbox yesterday. I took one look at the (obviously inflammatory) photo and read the line asking what I could do "to fight Islamic extremism" and tossed it into the trash.
I wonder how many of my neighbors stuck it in the DVD player and let the fear mongering seep into their homes.
Nice party!
Shameful deed.
They'll do anything to keep "their 50 + 1%," ... "clear majoity" to do "the people's will." Dick Cheney.
Or... So!!! D.C. (again)
Take your pick.
I live in Columbus, OH and I have the "Obsession" DVD on the desk next to me right now, but I haven't bothered to watch it yet. I may pop it in to judge for myself. I have very low expectations for it.
My Aunt is a fervent Christian and she forwards me a lot of her emails. If you don't have opportunity to see the extent of the BS that is propagated by the far-right Christians (not all Christians, mind you), I posted one of them in my blog:
I also posted a response debunking it.
There is undoubtedly a very active movement on the far right to insight a religious war. The Christian extremists are every bit as guilty as the Jihadists in trying to start a world-wide conflict. Frankly, it scares the beJesus out of me. Not that I was overly endowed with beJesus to begin with, but you get my drift...
fastfeat @ 73:
No, they won't. They'll go to the dead letter facility (in Pittsburgh, I believe) and eventually destroyed. I'm a letter carrier and had the odious task of delivering this slime. Hated doing it, but I'm not paid to decide what ought to be delivered, just deliver it...and you don't want your mail carrier deciding what you should get in your mailbox so don't give me any shit about 'accidently' losing them. I work with enough rightwing jerks to know nobody wants that.
This is a result of the endless efforts of the right wing radical neo-cons who have fanned the flames of hate towards Muslims the last seven years. Micheal Ledeen, John Bolton, Cheney, Reuel marc Gerecht, Judy Miller etc etc have repeated false and inflammatory claims about Muslims and Muslim countries. They have fanned the flames of intolerance
ashton @ 2:
LOL! So did I and so Did I, what an obvious fear monger. Someone wasted a lot of money for nothing
someguy @ 84:
Dawkins does not suggest proving a negative or measuring the subjective qualities of something.
Theists assert that their gods exist and generate physical effects. That is, that they are a part of the natural world. As part of the natural world, they should be subject to objective observation and analysis the way that, say, electromagnetism is. That, I believe, is Dawkins' position.
OK, from what I read, the DVD is distributed by an "Israeli". This is slightly different than saying it was distributed by a Jew. If a person says Israeli instead of Jew is that person trying to obfuscate the religious battle? Or, perhaps, the person is attempting to give greater credence to their story by emphasizing the possibility that they have direct experience with what they are claiming.
AND, we don't know if the DVD was direct motivation for the crime against the mosque worshippers. The point is that its intention is to use fear as a motivator in a political campaign regardless of the consequences or validity.
I got one in the mail too. Started watching it but lost interest. Later that afternoon I signed up to work for the Obama campaign.
xoites defends Constitution @ 85:
You mean you can't measure an apple orchard with a shot glass?
______________________________________________________________________
You can if it's hard applie-cider.
75 Meditating Upside-Down
As a Witch I meditate, but not Upside-Down
All the blood would rush to my head.
bobbie @ 102:
Thanks for the info. Hope I didn't make extra work for you...
Why this topic is only discussed on some progressive websites,while the mainstream media-television,newspapaers and magazines are ignoring this important issue? !
I can't imagine the television networks will be ignoring millions of mailed DVDs if they were about Jewish faith or about Israel.
I can't believe television netowks did not hear of the story of mailed DVDs, but I believe they are either scared to talk about it,or they are collaborating in this shameful project.
These DVDs were mailed in electoral toss up states,to give McCain the edge.Simply by scaring voters ...but by doing that they are planting seeds of hatered that was behind what happened in Dayton.
This is a pure propaganda and newspapers who participated in the delivery of DVDs should be ashamed of themselves.
-The DVD was not examined by a neutral body to see if its content is true or not.
-The DVD was made by people who have long time hatred history of Moslems and Arabs.
-Moslems were never given a chance to defend themselves regarding what has been said and was put in the DVD about Moslems.
Newspapers should not have let themselves be used in such shameful attempt to cause smear, hatered and later possible crimes.
I am in Missouri and they mailed a DVD to me last week. It appeared to me to be 80% accurate reporting about the most radical of islamists. They put a fig leaf on the front saying "Most Muslims are not this bad, this DVD is not about them"". The remaining 20% (interspersed throughout) was hate propoganda designed to seed distrust of Muslims and anyone that does not solely preach total destruction. It is clever in its production. It is couched in terms that makes it hard for most people to 1) refute actual false facts 2) speak out against the DVD that appears to be about how bad Terrorists are without being judged a sympathizer, and 3) Argue against the free distribution of information.... We have free speech, they have a view, and you are not required to watch the dvd....hard to complain of their methods.
Per the war crimes tribunals in Rwanda, where radio stations and newspapers were used to incite murder and genocide, I should think that newspapers - and campaign managers would think twice about doing this kind of thing. The ones who did that in Rwanda were convicted of crimes against humanity, and will have the rest of their lives to ponder the harm they did. This may not ever be brought to justice in any US court, but the members of the mosque can press charges in the World Court. I suggest that they do.
Fortunately for the scumbags who are distributing this shit and inciting other dirtbags to commit crimes, America is no longer governed by the rule of law, and criminal law only applies to those who are not Gopre, neocons and conservatives. The police/ FBI won't want to be troubled. Being a rightwing nutcase and a totalitarian fascist means never having to say you are sorry.
TomInStL @ 111:
Freedom of speech allows these idiots to put forth their trash. It also allows us for call that DVD for what it is: trash.
I am sure the DVD did not dwelled into the reasons/causes/contexts which make it seem reasonable for a twenty something to blow himself or herself up.
I smell a bunch of hypocrites on this board. There was just a thread about censorship, and everyone here is always complaining about the gov't taking away rights of free speech and this and that. Yet, when someone practices their free speech, you all get your panties all bunched up and say it needs to stop being advertised or whatever.
someguy @ 84:
Yes you can prove a negative. And I willing to assume that Dawkins, as PhD in science from a top university, is pretty aware in the difference between a quantitative and a qualitative approach.
Wow, did you even take a logic class or formal proof methods? Or are creationist reduced to make shit up as a counter argument to Dawkins bitch slaps?
Zilam @ 114:
Censure, what the fuck are you talking about?
You don't seem to understand that free speech does not entitle trash to go unchallenged. They have the right to put forth their ignorant views, and we can call them on it. Ain't that a bitch?
I too, got this trash DVD in my Sunday paper, and promptly threw it where it belonged - in the garbage.
[quote]Censure, what the fuck are you talking about?
You don’t seem to understand that free speech does not entitle trash to go unchallenged. They have the right to put forth their ignorant views, and we can call them on it. Ain’t that a bitch?[/quote]
Whether or not something is trash is entirely subjunctive. What if someone said that C&L was trash, and called for it to be shut down, because it promoted hate, or something? I suppose you haven't learned from the past that hate speech is still free speech. For example, the marching of Nazis in Skokie was completely legal, even though many consider the views of those people to be "trash". You cannot censor these things, because it will somehow lead into a slippery slope of what needs to be censored.
So, yes you can say how much you hate the film all you want. But do not call for it to be banned. That goes against our principles as a nation.
This entire thing REEKS of Karl Rove.
115 Tyler Durden
Philosophically you can't prove a negative, because they would have it that to prove a negative would be to prove it's existence in the negative.
However, that construct is set on it's head with theories about anti-matter and anti-energy.
And logic dictates that you're drawing conclusions from all KNOWN evidence, but logically you can never be sure if all the knowns are known
If I may be allowed to wax rumsfieldian.
ysbaddaden @ 120:
rumsfield bastardized platonian logic for his own ends.
We received this in our sunday paper here in Portland Oregon. My wife had been warned about it from her church and we watched it. Ultimately it is a piece of hate material. We wrote the othe paper editor and canceled our subscription with the explanation that we will not pay to have hate material delivered to our door. Freedom of speech allows these loons to spew their hatred but the Oregonian should be more selective about what they allow to be destributed with their paper. Would they also allow a dvd about the evil's of Christianity? doubt it.
121 someguy Says:
ysbaddaden @ 120:
115 Tyler Durden
Philosophically you can’t prove a negative, because they would have it that to prove a negative would be to prove it’s existence in the negative.
However, that construct is set on it’s head with theories about anti-matter and anti-energy.
And logic dictates that you’re drawing conclusions from all KNOWN evidence, but logically you can never be sure if all the knowns are known
If I may be allowed to wax rumsfieldian.
rumsfield bastardized platonian logic for his own ends.
______________________________________________________________________
Who's, moi?
I like what John Locke wrote, "Je nais c'est quoi?"
(I admit I have to remember as Johnny sez whaaa....?)
Proving a negative means saying that if one can't find convincing evidence to prove belief, than one can't find convincing evidence to disprove a belief, because that's what it is...
A belief.
$35 nike jordan puma adidas prada timberland supra,lacoste,gucci shoes
$25 purses coach chanel burberry lv gucci fendi juicy d&g versace miu miu purses
$35 Jeans:coogi jeans,armani,Crow Holder,D&G,Evisu jeans,Diesel,Christan Audigier,Rock,True Religion,Affliction,Ed Hardy,RMC jeans etc
$40 Hoodies: Coogi,Crow Holder,D&G,Evisu,Bape,BBC,Diesel,Christan Audigier,Rock,True Religion,Affliction,Ed Hardy,RMC hoodies et
$18 Armani t-shirts,Affliction,Coogi,Ed hardy,LRG,Crown older,Evisu,G-star,Polo,Christian Audigier t-shirts etc brand new!free shipping !top quality!
Pls visit our website:www.netsowntown.com for more details.
ysbaddaden @ 123:
Wasn't John Locke a Christian?
I don't know if anyone is still reading this thread, but clicking on the link to that story now goes to a different one, titled "Police: No evidence of hate crime at local mosque."
Hmm. Possible this was all one big overreaction?
Possible it was even a hoax? It wouldn't be the first time.
Login or Register to post comments.