VP Debate: Biden - "How Different Is John McCain's Policy Going To Be Than George Bush's?"
By Logan Murphy Wednesday Oct 01, 2008 9:39pm
Tonight's debate between Sen. Joe Biden and Gov. Sarah "Main Street, Wasilla" Palin yielded few fireworks, but Biden did a good job of keeping the focus where it should be -- on John McCain, his miserable voting record and the fact that a McCain presidency would look a lot like the disaster we've seen from George Bush.
Biden: "Past is prologue, Gwen. The issue is how different is John McCain's policy going to be than George Bush's? I haven't heard anything yet. I haven't heard how his policy is going to be different on Iran than George Bush's. I haven't heard how his policy will be different with Israel than George Bush's, I haven't heard how his policy on Afghanistan will be different than George Bush's, I haven't heard how his policy in Pakistan will be different than George Bush's. It may be, but so far, it is the same as George Bush's, and you know where that policy has taken us. We will make significant change, so once again, we're the most respected nation in the world. That's what we're going to do."
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DRILL BABY DRILL
My wife is yelling at the TV. Biden is killing it.
Oh, it is SO on.
Drill baby drill did not go over well with the CNN people on their immediate polling bar.
McFrist!
Lots of problems trying to get on tonight you guys. Damn Hackers.
Difference between Boosh and What's his name= none. Period.
Palin did not answer the questions. She simply regurgitated the Republican talking points she was trained to give.
I'm sorry, but this isn't a fucking beauty pageant; you don't get points for being cute as a bug's ear.
Biden answered every question with specifics--even went under his time.
For my wife and me, we called it for Biden when he got choked up over his deceased wife and child. I know that sounds theatrical, but it was real. Did you see how it rattled Palin? She wasn't ready for that one.
Winner: Biden.
CNN immediate poll, biden won by a wider margin. This was a live hold your hands up thing.
Once again, just like Obama, Joe Biden failed to make the essential case that the reason behind the drop in violence in Iraq is not due to more troops, but rather, the cease fire with Iranian ally Moqtada al Sadr. Democrats need to make clear that what the invasion of Iraq has created is an allied state, and friend to, Iran. Only then can they make their case.
Hey, muddy...it's actually boffo traffic slowing us down.
I've contacted our tech guys and we're working on it.
Palin in one sentence.
Ya its all about lower taxes reduced spending and 911.
I think it went largely as I predicted. :)
MsJoanne @ 3:
It didn't go well on CBS as well.
Not everyone in these focus groups would appear to be very 'independent'.. lol.. first guy interviewed in the CBS one said he thought Palin was better because he was keeping track of who went off topic more.
If he thinks that's Biden it means he's either a Republican or simply delusional.
Go vote on CNN.com. No, it's not scientific.
Biden is kicking ass.
The BBC says Palin was a jumble of "greatest hits of the Republicans" over the years--though her sentences made no sense.
Say it ennt sue, Joe.
the only critique i have on biden was his bringing the tear jerker story (wasnt necessary and the wingnuts are gonna rip him) and his not shoving the words of reagan down palin's mouth
when she for the 4th time berated biden for looking at the past and then used reagans shining city on the hill line, he shoulda turned to the camera and said
to paraphrase president reagan, who did understand that learning from the past is important.....are you better off now then you were 8 years ago
All Palin had to do was to make jingoistic, feel good appeals to patriotism and claim that the Surge has worked.
Biden and Obama have a more difficult burden of cutting through the propaganda and point out how creating an Iranian ally in Iraq has undermined American policy goals in the middle east.
My favorite part was when Palin said she wanted more money for education. Conservative heads are exploding!!!
Here is the question my dearest friends...
Who told us the TRUTH?!
Well....
Who was it, friends???
CNN was just talking with their live panel (who was doing the ratings).
Only one decided to vote for McCain (and she was as dippy as Palin…could you repeat what you just said in English, please??).
Overwhelming, they think Obama will win, while not everyone said they would vote for Obama. That was fascinating.
Biden leads at:
http://www.polls.newsvine.com/_question/2008/10/02/1948598-who-won-the-v...
That's MSNBC.com
Snowball @ 7:
there are a few reasons for the drop in violence, the least of which is the surge
but they had 90 secs to give statements
4 million iraqis have yet to return to the country
there is defacto ethnic cleansing (you cant find a neighborhood anywhere in iraq that has mixture of sunis and shia)
the cease fire, which occured before the surge
and the 30 million dollar per month payments to al sadr and other groups
but does it matter? we shouldnt be there and the american people dont want us to stay
General McClellan??? Lincoln fired him, right????
We're on the verge of a second Great Depression and Palin delivers smirks and talking points.
I liked the fact that he did show emotion on the news of his son Deploying. It put a stop to Sarah Palin saying that "she's a mom" all the time.
I also liked the fact that Joe explained the Constitutional powers of the Vice-Presidency on television. Sarah had no clue.
When Biden was explaining taxation of benefits, the CNN people who were being polled did not get it.
they were doing the up and down in real time and they did not get what the whole $5k tax break means when you will get taxed on your healthcare benefits which will wind up costing everyone more.
They just did not get it.
Biden did a GREAT job of explaining it...and they still didn't get it.
Are we really that fucking stupid a people?
The Bush Economy
I was walking
down the isle
of the grocery store
and I heard
a little boy
ask his mother,
"Mommy,
can we buy
dog food
with
food stamps?"
poem by John Hulse from The Best and Worst Job I Ever Had (1985-2005)
Palin kept stating that Biden was bringing up the past. She must have forgotten that John McCain is always bringing up the past. For John McCain, everything revolves around POW which is the past. Perhaps McCain is suffering from PTSD and as a result, mentally he is still a POW.
Most of what Palin said sounded scripted. She wouldn't answer questions and instead went to reciting the scripts that were handed to her throughout the week. She was told to be sure to say certain things REGARDLESS of the question and she did.
I was offended by her folksy, winking at the audience. To me, that was condescending.
However, what sickened me was her Reaganesque lines. It turned my stomach.
Nicole Belle @ 8:
nicole
you guys need to request extra band width for the next 2 debates and election nite
or else you are gonna crash your servers
mudflats moved to a new server that could not take the extra traffic
we need all you guys to be up for the next month
Sarah didn't know what achilles(sic) heels means. Wow!
Joe did really a good job... Palin did a lot better than I thought she would, but it still wasn't even close unless you're a total Republitard.
RobertD @ 19:
78.3%
Joe Biden
18,839 votes
18.9%
Sarah Palin
4,540 votes
2.9%
Tie
693 votes
uncle joe mccarthy @ 14:
I *totally* disagree with you (though I respect my esteemed colleague from the blog). ; )
This was a stroke of brilliance on Biden's part, although I think it was authentic.
Almost any man in America--women, too--could relate to what Biden was feeling when he said this. My wife was totally won over by it. Any why? Because it was authentic! He meant it. He's still grieving for his wife and kid. Everybody is Scranton gets that.
Less important, but just as relevant, was the effect it had on Palin--it totally threw her. She was taken aback and fumbled, which allowed Biden to go on the offensive on the next question.
quickly - just heard something mike murphy said about palin and i have to agree (first time for everything): sarah palin surely did rectify her actions of the past week...
i think that's the most positive thing i can say about it...
what a CUTEY, not?!
Biden is the real thing,America wants action..not fluff. She wants more V.P. power??????????????? NO WAY.....McSame & Mrs.McSame. She just blabbered the same ol repub. talking points. UNQUALIFIED...says it all.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 26:
Cats, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking. Honestly, my friends, POW, POW, I didn't have a table, I didn't have healthcare for a period of time, blah blah blah. He lives in the past.
That was rich, indeed.
Did anyone else think Palin got completely killed on the question of Cheney's 'theory' of the vice-presidency? Obviously not a rehearsed question.
Either she didn't know Cheney's position (who does?) or what the Constitution says, but most probably both.
Biden (who did know both) nailed it, hard.
Palin ended up agreeing with Cheney (always a bad thing) and more importantly, not knowing the constitutional limits of the vice-presidency.
Cats r Flyfishn @ 26:
Thank you. That part really drove me crazy. It was fake and contrived.
CNN.com poll at 10:55 PM EST:
Who fared better in the vice presidential debate?
Sen. Joe Biden 76% 25015
Gov. Sarah Palin 22% 7287
Neither 2% 817
Total Votes: 33119
Pat Buchanan: She was super-duper awesome and no one could argue she didn't win the debate.
Rachel Maddow: Um, WTF?
mudshark @ 4:
Those freaks must really be terrified of this web site. You're doing a great job C&L!
I thought Biden did a great job. He didn't fall into any of the traps of coming off overly dismissive or agressive/like a bully. These are serious times that call for serious people, and Palin's 15 minutes of celebrity are over. Instead, Biden was supremely knowledgable, caring and REAL. Way to go Joe!
By about 7 pm PDT I was thinking “please just let this be over with.”
McCain gets a transient bump out of this. But, that will reverse after he goes up against Obama next Tuesday. Or, if the market craters tomorrow, no one will even remember this "debate."
i switched from msnbc to cspan - almost constant split screen, a must.
MsJoanne @ 31:
Yeah them internet "click votes" are real accurate.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 14:
I disagree entirely.
This was the dramatic turning point in the debate. Because it completely humanized a man who was viewed by many as a typical politician.
He became a human being, a parent, someone who understands what others are going through.
In contrast, Palin--whose entire schtick is that she understands "hockey moms"--came off as a robot, complete with pre-recorded one-liners.
Will someone please shut down this damn "looking backwards" crap?
If we can't look backwards then John McCain's POW status doesn't count either. Resumes mean nothing because they are just looking backwards. Every excuse they used about Obama voting about this or that means nothing if we don't look backwards. Palin's track record as a "mavrick" means nothing. Do I need to go on?
This thing is the easiest meme in the world to shut down and they are letting them make it into a new talking point.
Alexdem @ 36:
Exactly with what I was thinking. Biden schooled her on those points.
The Very Bitter Ceci Hussein @ 23:
but he tied it in with the death of his first wife and daughter and his sons being critical
remember what they did to edwards and his alledgedly using the death of his son
and im sorry, if that woman is gonna continue using her kids as political props, then they are fair game
her daughter bristol is a nasty slut who wasnt given enough education to use a condom
that makes palin an unfit mother
she has a special needs child somewhere in the world (trig has disapeared) and doesnt seem to give a lick about that kid
cant run a family...cant run a country
oh, and on oct 10, she may be under indictment for malfeasance and abuse of power...but god forbid that should come up during a debate
MSNBC
Who won the VP debate? * 104124 responses
Joe Biden
52%
Sarah Palin
37%
Tie
4.7%
Not sure
5.7%
Biden totally destroyed her.
She made a real improvement to her showing over the last couple weeks, of course, and people predisposed to giving her a hug will probably feel like she did just great, you betcha.
But Biden's knowledge, experience and eloquence were in fine form.
He did a marvelous job of parrying the "personal narrative" selling point of Palin's with his own, which I thought was more powerful and more compellingly expressed than hers. He didn't attack her on family. He just spoke his own experience, and he was wonderful.
And then he pulled out the guns on the "maverick" BS and blew it away.
I'm so pro-Biden right now I'm astounded.
CBS poll among undecideds, who won: 46% Biden, 21% Palin, 33% Undecided
Obama/Biden won essentially every poll question here, although apparently people did get a more positive view of Palin (moreso for Biden)
Biden did great. Considering how low this countries expectations have sunk the past 8 years.
shorter palin, "obama wants to raise your taxes and john knows how to win wars".
Andrea Mitchell is making shit up to boost Palin.
Brief, fortunately. It's 11 PM. Time for Olbermann.
He killed her on every point except the voting against the troops line. Twice he stated that McCain voted against the same bill and why McCain voted against it, but no mention of why his running mate voted against it.
Somebody needs to ask McCain which war he has won... since he likes to claim he knows how to win them... or is he just holding on to that information until he gets elected?
Booyah! Give 'em hell Joe!
RobertD @ 32:
it was a brilliant political move and took palin off her game....and i do believe it was authentic
but wait till the rushes and the hannitys spin it as biden using his dead wife and daughter for political gain....they will make him look like a monster
i can hear it now
rush (using a whiny voice) vote for me cuz my wife and daughter were smooshed in a car....waaaaaaaaaaaaaa
its evil, but its effective
* Stocks decline on unemployment, factory reports
* Tighter credit begins to hit manufacturing, jobs
* Wave of House converts jump aboard bailout bill AP
* Financial companies borrow record amount from Fed
* Financial crisis moves from Wall St. to the mall AP
Life goes on
"Past is prologue"?
Way to dumb it down, Joe.
katy @ 43:
DAMN DAMN DAMN! I didn''t have that option.
Please share...what did you see on the split screen??
L.A. Confidential @ 59:
Obladee oblada.
e.c. @ 53:
I never did find out which war he won that gave him that experience.
No one.
Israel is doing quite well in the debates....I think they'll win. Strange though, they don't seem to be leading in the polls.
This is from section 3 of article 14 of the US Constitution:
"No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or Elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State Legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof."
So let's have a conversation about Todd Palin being a member in good standing of the Alaska First Party, and Sarah Palin addressing that party, and perhaps having been a member of that party...........hmmm?
Brian @ 50:
she walked in with the same note cards that she used in the alaskan debates
she stayed on point, no matter what the question was
that isnt doing better than expected....that is being unable to think outside the box
Libertina @ 16:
That's the rub. She never said she wanted more MONEY for education.
She spoke very generally about how important education was and how we need to hold teachers accountable, that NCLB needs to "go farther." What does that mean?
She said teachers are very important, but she didn't exactly offer to raise their salaries to attract better teachers. Instead, she blew smoke up our asses.
It's typical of much of her pre-memorized speeches, a lot of what Americans wanted to hear in very general terms, but when it comes down to it, she offered no change in policy.
And if you don't believe me, have a look at McCain's site.
Go Dodgers!
Wasilla is not normal America.
In adition to it's being located in a state larger than texas with a population smaller than rhode island where the sun is gone for 300 days in the winter Wasilla is also known as the meth capital of alaska.
Palin didn't "pull a Palin" because she was not once forced to stray off-script.
One notable missed opportunity: when Palin repeated the McCain meme, "John McCain knows how to win wars."
"Name one", Biden should of immediately responded, throwing her off-script and creating one of those "Couric moments".
But because the candidates were never allowed to address each other, he couldn't do it, and all we here were Palin's well-rehearsed answers.
I feel compelled to say after reading about ACORN voter fraud identified in IN we should be afraid of Obama. I was a Dem. but they no longer represent me. It is a totally different party than in 2000. Especially since Thurs's debate, Joe Biden has chosen to represent the ideas of Obama- the new & lousy Democratic Party, I am voting for McCain/Palin 08, in hopes that the Democratic Party returns to its former way of representing the people in 2012. Then we can vote for Hillary vs. Palin. Go Sarah & Sen. McCain.
[The Left of this country has been asking this of you people (flamebaiting rightwingers) for years now -- since Ron Reagan IIRC-Sitemonitor]
Johnny2Bad @ 60:
ok troll boy....how about this
those who do not learn from the past are doomed to relive it
you know, like how you feel everyday that you wake up and realize you are still the same miserable failure you were when you went to bed the night before
sofla @ 56:
BINGO! Give this gal a cookie.
That's exactly what I thought.
In re: Exploding conservative heads.. She was really presenting herself as some kind of champion of regulation at the start.. I can't imagine that sitting well with their 'base'.
Ricky Bones @ 21:
" Since you are doing nothing with the Army may I borrow it for awhile" A. Lincoln to McClellan
10 Karen Says: I think it went largely as I predicted. :)
If I had to bet, I’d bet it will go as follows:
Biden will be very polite, try extra hard to keep his answers very short, and rather than provoke or respond to Palin, will simply allow her to hang herself with her own words.
Palin will have practiced so hard, that she’ll essentially have memorized stock paragraphs. She’ll try very hard not to ramble or ad lib, and just to repeat those stock paragraphs, even when she doesn’t know what she’s talking about. The answers won’t always match the question asked, but at least they’ll sound more coherent than the Miss Teen South Carolina answers she gave to Couric and Gibson.
In the end, Palin will have said some silly things, but not the breathtakingly ditzy things for which she is now infamous. Bloggers will concentrate on those silly things, emphasizing just how silly her positions are, while her defenders and the media will note that she wasn’t the screw-up that everyone was waiting for.
I hope I’m wrong, of course. I hope she just makes a jaw-dropping fool of herself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, you absolutely nailed it.
redundant @ 65:
I kept wondering who were electing officials for...America or Israel.
For someone who is so pro-education, and has so many teachers in her family, you would think that she would know how to pronounce "nuclear".
The clear loser of the debate: The C&L server.
Parts of the C&L server have been spotted entering Russian air space. Concerns that Putin will raise his head.
sofla @ 56:
The one against himself. Though, honestly, I can't tell who's winning either.
If Sarah Six Pack and McSame "Father Time" were actual MAVERICKS would they have to tell us that 5,000 times in 90 minutes?
And why do these Mavricks continue to claim straight talk while lying deceiving and presentin absolutely FALSE statements... is that being a Maverick?
Also after withnessing the last 8 years of power abuse why would Americans give this empty head more power and authrority that she said she NEEDS? My GOD, such humility.
uncle joe mccarthy @ 48:
I agree with other folks on her that his tears humanized him. That moment blew away Palin's falsity in one, fell swoop.
Other than that, I am waiting on what will go down in Alaska. I hope that she gets her behind nailed to the wall. She's a liar and a crook.
Winking at the camera in a vice-presidential debate? What, are you kidding me?
Funny seeing how fast McSame and Palindrome are running from George Bush's record.
I still don't see why neither Obama or Biden point out that Phil Gramm, McCain's economic advisor, is the architect of our current mess. The link is very direct and really not hard to understand.
Anyway, the guy pulling the string on Palin's back must be exhausted.
Now ahm jus' gonna say g'night to y'all on mainstreet *wink*
Bitter Bud Hussein @ 69:
i feel terrible for the cubbie fans
and i despise the bums, and their fans
Biden was Biden and I thought he was great. She was horrible; half the time I was so confused by her answers I couldn't remember the questions. She seemed very scripted and I don't think she scored many points. She really blew it on the Cheney question and the increase in the VP powers. We should be very afraid of this woman. What debate did Pat Buchanan watch? How does he think she was riveting??
On a personal note; her voice drives me insane.
68 bamboozled Says: Libertina @ 16:
My favorite part was when Palin said she wanted more money for education. Conservative heads are exploding!!!
That’s the rub. She never said she wanted more MONEY for education.
She spoke very generally about how important education was and how we need to hold teachers accountable, that NCLB needs to “go farther.” What does that mean?
She said teachers are very important, but she didn’t exactly offer to raise their salaries to attract better teachers. Instead, she blew smoke up our asses.
It’s typical of much of her pre-memorized speeches, a lot of what Americans wanted to hear in very general terms, but when it comes down to it, she offered no change in policy.
And if you don’t believe me, have a look at McCain’s site.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the phrase she used was, "We've got to ramp it up." Personally, every time someone in my building tells me to do something like "ramp it up," it means that decisions will be based increasingly on numbers crunched from tests to satisfy NCLB, even where this is laughably irresponsible and detrimental to the kids.
When she said that, I wanted her to ramp NCLB up her ass.
RobertD @ 76: