Court Tells CIA It Can Keep Torture Evidence Secret
By Cernig Friday Oct 31, 2008 1:00pm
On Wednesday, the Washington D.C. Circuit Court gave the CIA permission to keep secret unredacted transcripts in which 14 prisoners now held at Guantánamo Bay describe abuse and torture they endured in CIA custody - without even looking at the evidence itself. (h/t Kat)
"The Court, giving deference to the agency’s detailed, good-faith declaration, is disinclined to second-guess the agency in its area of expertise through in camera review," Lamberth wrote (.pdf), referring to a procedure where a judge looks at evidence in his chamber without showing it to the opposing side.
The ruling comes in a case where the ACLU filed a government sunshine suit to force the government to unredact allegations from statements from so-called High Value Detainees such as 9/11 plotter Khalid Sheihk Muhammed that the CIA kidnapped and tortured them.
The judge's decision not to look at the blacked-out text to see if secrets are involved allows the Bush Administration to continue to hide its use of torture techniques, according to Ben Wizner, a staff attorney with the ACLU National Security Project.
The CIA says that releasing the transcripts would harm national security - by revealing torturous interrogation techniques and which nations were complicit in facillitating those tortures. That's not how they phrase it, but that's what the double-speak actually means.
"Among the details that cannot be publicly released are the conditions of the detainees’ capture, the employment of alternative interrogation methods, and other operational details," the CIA's Wendy Hilton told the court in a sworn affidavit (.pdf). "Specifically, disclosure of such information is reasonably likely to degrade the CIA's ability to effectively question terrorist detainees and elicit information necessary to protect the American people"
The CIA also successfully argued that it needed to redact statements about what countries were involved in the program, saying that such allegations could destroy relationships with countries that helped with the CIA's controversial program of secretly kidnapping suspected terrorists and shuttling them to hidden prisons in Europe and Asia, where neither families nor the Red Cross knew of their detention.
The ACLU's Ben Wizner put it plainly (H/t Rachel M):
"This decision allows the Bush administration to continue its illegal cover-up of its systemic torture polices. The government has suppressed these detainees' allegations of brutal torture not to protect any legitimate national security interests, but to protect itself from criticism and liability. It is unlawful for the government to withhold information on these grounds."
It continues to pain me that Democratic leaders refuse to talk seriously about criminal investigations of those who ordered and were involved in illegal rendition and torture. Irealise that the extreme Right would make the issue as divisive as they could. I realise there's a lot of work to be done to roll back the damage the Bush years have done to America. But these war crimes strike directly at the very concept of America and at America's standing in the world as well as at fundamental premises of the rule of law. To deliberately not investigate - and not prosecute where needed - would be itself a crime.
As for John McCain - he thinks that Gitmo is "one of the nicest places in the world" and that allowing detainees who were tortured, illegally detained and are often innocent of all crimes even by the Bush administration's own admission was "one of the worst decisions in the history of this country". What a maverick.
Crossposted From Newshoggers
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i will be glad when obama is president
he will clean up this fucking doj political
reichwingneocon crap. it's time ALL the
gop, bush and cheney were sent to prison
in gitmo for their crimes against the USA,
HUMANITY AND the World.
Status quObama, change you can pretend in.
feel better now that you got in your stupid quote for to the day
The Fascist meme is now fully integrated into the judicial system.
We have always been at war with the constitution.......
War on drugs, war on poverty, invasion = war . . . I guess the logical extension is that eventually you go to war with your fellow citizens.
goes to war ON your fellow citizens.
:(
I've had CNN on the TV all day while working in my study. They're giving McCain a lot of speech time, and, am I the only one finding it increasingly weird that McCain is now routinely saying "my friends" two and three times in the same sentence, as he ramps up his stridency, yelling more & more emphatically his same recursive simplistic talking points. Like when you don't know someone else's native tongue, and you try to communicate by talking slower and louder, 'cuz they're not getting it?
A reasonable explanation might be that the neurons in his ossified cerebral cortex that handle language and short-term, working memory are failing faster than the strategies in his mean-spirited, hate-filled campaign. Couldn't happen to a nicer sack of puke.
It continues to pain me that Democratic leaders refuse to talk seriously about criminal investigations of those who ordered and were involved in illegal rendition and torture. I realise that the extreme Right would make the issue as divisive as they could. I realise there's a lot of work to be done to roll back the damage the Bush years have done to America. But these war crimes strike directly at the very concept of America and at America's standing in the world as well as at fundamental premises of the rule of law. To deliberately not investigate - and not prosecute where needed - would be itself a crime.
The entire Iraq ICORP enterprise has been criminal from the start. If the Dims choose not to prosecute torturers, it COULD be that they fear being found complicit in the crimes, doncha think?. That wouldn't look good for the Candidate For Change, would it?
Or they plan NOT to suspend the illegal activities when they have the chance, in January? They find the practices useful?
That help any, Cernig?
Until America fully investigates all of this it will remain a huge black on on your country's reputation.
To me, a country that practises such, and whose citizens -(some)- even condone it, is not worth listening to. Their moral compass has been surrendered. It taints all other decisions.
Just like I wouldn't ask a wife-beater for advice, it causes me to turn my back on your once great country.
I don't mean to be overly critical of your comment here.
But wasn't there a thread not long ago, about Canada and torture.
just sayin.
"It continues to pain me that Democratic leaders refuse to talk seriously about criminal investigations of those who ordered and were involved in illegal rendition and torture."
What continues to pain me to no end is the refusal by democrat supporters to appreciate the wisdom behind this approach. It's very simple: If you try to indict, then Bush can grant pardon.
You just don't want that happening don't you? Now, when he'll be out of office, guess how many inquiry commissions one can start on all these matters?
*evil grin*
Not only it'll happen this way, BUT, the amount of shit that will be uncovered is likely to be so staggering that it will allow President Obama to royally screw the McConnells of the Senate...should they have the very bad idea to filibuster everything like they did during the 2006-2008 Congressional session.
*very evil grin -- Call me Machiavelli*
I hope you are right. These people really need to be convicted and punish for all the misery they've caused. However, I can't help feeling that if the Democrats have allowed impeachment proceedings to go forward in 2006, our moral compass, as far as the world is concerned, would have been a lot stronger. The democrats failed us in this regard, and also back in 2004, with the exception of Senator Barbara Boxer, when they refused to challenge the voting irregularities in Ohio and other parts of the country.
What happens if Bush makes his way to Paraguay in South America?
"It continues to pain me that Democratic leaders refuse to talk seriously about criminal investigations of those who ordered and were involved in illegal rendition and torture."
Before spending time talking or seriously planning to seek investigations, we need to wait and see who Bush pardons before he leaves office.
It makes no sense to go after them now. Wait til Boosh leaves. Then go after them.
But I was told he can give out pardons to people not charged with anything. Kinda like a get out of jail card. Protection from future prosecution. We'll just have to wait and see.I have a feeling Boosh has already started writing them. He'll need a lot of time.
Lets send Bush/Cheney and the rest of the GOP criminals there pronto.
Xmas day.
That's when Poppie pardoned the whole guns-for-hostages crowd.
What good are laws when the courts won't even look at possible evidence of law-breaking?
While the guys in the black robes may have an agenda, Justice is way down on their list.
must INSIST our elected REPRESENTATIVES do what we say. We say prosecute and punish all criminals.
This sums it up nicely.
'giving deference to the agency’s detailed, good-faith declaration'
is comedy gold...
Thanks for pointing this out.
Guess our judicial system is now a faith-based initiative.
The real legacy of the Bush administration will be the hundreds of State and Federal rightwing judges they have appointed (many with Dem help!) over the last eight years. Assuming a Dem President and a Dem Congress, there will be real battles with these courts. Hopefully, Obama will be able to appoint one or two good Supreme Court justices during his first term.
If it's such a nice place I'm sure he'll like it better than any of his 14 homes.
' What sort of inferrences might one draw? '
Inference my Aunt Myrtle ! It's called CYA.
http://tinyurl.com/29kyz3
' "In September 2002, four members of Congress met in secret for a first look at a unique CIA program designed to wring vital information from reticent terrorism suspects in U.S. custody," the Post wrote. "For more than an hour, the bipartisan group, which included current House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), was given a virtual tour of the CIA's overseas detention sites and the harsh techniques interrogators had devised to try to make their prisoners talk."
"Among the techniques described, said two officials present, was waterboarding, a practice that years later would be condemned as torture by Democrats and some Republicans on Capitol Hill," the Post added. "But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."
......"But on that day, no objections were raised. Instead, at least two lawmakers in the room asked the CIA to push harder, two U.S. officials said."......
Bingo. Charisma!!!!
Disgusting. This guy Lamberth was over the Indian Trust lawsuit too.
If the evidence of anal rape is kept secret in the name of national security, do the "alleged" victims get refunds?
Why am I supposed to be proud of being an American?
We openly torture and are fucking proud of it.
We are rated 30-something in free speech.
We have one of the lower rated healthcare systems in the industrialized world.
Our country cannot get over itself because the most qualified person running for president is black.
I am changing my name From MsJoanne to Highly Discouraged, maybe Completely Disgusted. Un.fucking.real.
We have watched our country descend into an ugly mess of divisiveness, willful ignorance, greed and hate. Some of us knew human nature's darkest possibilities because we know enough of our own history and that of others, but we've never watched it happen. I, for one, will never be the same.
Look all that information has already been obtained by Foreign Countries and China reported it. Yes the US will protect the criminals but the United Nations will bring War Crimes against the CIA, FBI and Bush Administration. Remember this Judge can only protect the CIA in the US as other countries can file charges against them.
We need to be more active in the process of Government that WE PAY FOR. THIS is one reason The World hates US. THIS is why We have to be dilgent and smart and informed about what goes on IN OUR NAME. 'good faith'? From the CIA? Good faith in Thugs? What a pussy of a judge. That's JUSTICE? Who are We? The same 'terrorists' and 'rouge regimes' WE are supposed to be fighting? Jebus help Me. I know I'm preaching to the choir ,but Man it just goes on and on. (pouring stiff drink).
usually evokes eye rolls and laughter around the world...
No shit. Actually i need a joint. I think I got one somewhere. gotta check my drawers. Sheesh.
effin' way!!!!
The court has embraced a Greenspanian doctrine of justice: Power + CIA + Torture= Just Plain Goodness.
Jane Meyer's "The Dark Side," and am seriously depressed--this is only a confirmation/continuation. I've often said that I'm grateful to be an American--but I'm not proud of it at the moment (or decade).
The CIA just took the 5th.
I guess if a corporation can be a person with all the rights of citizenship, an agency of the government of WPE can do it too.
What convoluted circular reasoning is this?
The CIA is accused of torturing prisoners. They can’t tell about torturing prisoners because it is secret. Therefore there is no evidence they torture prisoners.
NOT!
Once upon a time, during bloody battles in war, there was such a thing as secrets in the name of “National Security” These secrets involved troop movements, deployments, battle plans, etc. These secrets are fleeting because once enacted – EVERY BODY KNOWS.
There is a perpetual myth that secrets exist because of “National Security” In this modern world of instant communications they are few and far between. Most “National Security” secrets exist now, not to protect the Nation, but to hide the culpable.
The CIA says evidence of torture must remain secret for “National Security” reasons? It’s not as if the ENTIRE WORLD doesn’t know about Abu Ghraib. It’s not as if the entire Middle East doesn’t know about Water Boarding, Sleep Deprivation, Isolation, and other “Extraordinary Rendition Techniques” (a.k.a. TORTURE).
Hiding behind “National Security” is as credible as the Repubs hiding behind the Flag Pins on their lapels. It fools no one.
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