Gitmo Case Files - A Tragedy Of Errors
The Washington Post today reports that clearing up Bush's Gitmo mess is complicated by the fact that case files on detainees there are incomplete, disorganised and in many instances don't exist at all. One "senior official" from the Bush administration says that's not true and Obama's people "backpedaling and trying to buy time" by blaming its predecessor. The senior former official also admitted that "he relied on Pentagon assurances that the files were comprehensive and in order rather than reading them himself."
That anonymous, secondhand, self-exoneration of the Bush administration is apparently good enough for the those who have always been glad to march in step with the Fourth Branch. Boston Herald editor and Pajamas media columnist Jules Crittenden believes it, for one, and launches into an apologia for the Bush administration involving a claim that any and all confusion is entirely due to intelligence agencies being unwilling to share with each other. But Hilzoy brings us an actual named eyewitness: LTC Darrel Vandeveld was lead prosecutor against a detainee, Mohammed Jawad, until he resigned last September. The following is from his statement in support of Jawad's habeas petition.
"7. It is important to understand that the "case files" compiled at OMC-P or developed by CITF are nothing like the investigation and case files assembled by civilian police agencies and prosecution offices, which typically follow a standardized format, include initial reports of investigation, subsequent reports compiled by investigators, and the like. Similarly, neither OMC-P nor CITF maintained any central repository for case files, any method for cataloguing and storing physical evidence, or any other system for assembling a potential case into a readily intelligible format that is the sine qua non of a successful prosecution. While no experienced prosecutor, much less one who had performed his or her duties in the fog of war, would expect that potential war crimes would be presented, at least initially, in "tidy little packages," at the time I inherited the Jawad case, Mr. Jawad had been in U.S. custody for approximately five years. It seemed reasonable to expect at the very least that after such a lengthy period of time, all available evidence would have been collected, catalogued, systemized, and evaluated thoroughly -- particularly since the suspect had been imprisoned throughout the entire time the case should have been undergoing preparation.
8. Instead, to the shock of my professional sensibilities, I discovered that the evidence, such as it was, remained scattered throughout an incomprehensible labyrinth of databases primarily under the control of CITF, or strewn throughout the prosecution offices in desk drawers, bookcases packed with vaguely-labeled plastic containers, or even simply piled on the tops of desks vacated by prosecutors who had departed the Commissions for other assignments. I further discovered that most physical evidence that had been collected had either disappeared or had been stored in locations that no one with any tenure at, or institutional knowledge of, the Commissions could identify with any degree of specificity or certainty. The state of disarray was so extensive that I later learned, as described below, that crucial physical evidence and other documents relevant to both the prosecution and the defense had been tossed into a locker located at Guantanamo and promptly forgotten. Although it took me a number of months -- so extensive was the lack of any discernable organization, and so difficult was it for me to accept that the US military could have failed so miserably in six years of effort -- I began to entertain my first, developing doubts about the propriety of attempting to prosecute Mr. Jawad without any assurance that through the exercise of due diligence I could collect and organize the evidence in a manner that would meet our common professional obligations."
It seems obvious that the Bush administration as a whole simply didn't care - it expected prosecutors in what it believed to be a tame tribunal process to hand down convictions anyway and was more than a little surprised when many military lawyers refused to be complicit in the scam.
Crittenden also mentions the "61 detainees who returned to terror" stuff which has been debunked too. It's twelve at most - all released by political decisions made by Bush appointees, quite possibly including the "senior former official" Crittenden trusts so much as to believe his second-hand excuses. Every single one was released because the Bush administration's malfeasance meant charges wouldn't stick, were entirely false or were undermined by illegal methods such as torture and false confessions. That will be true of any other detainees released too - which would be simply sad, if it weren't so very tragic that some will go on to kill innocents. If only the Bush administration's legal hacks had considered that earlier...or indeed at all.
Crossposted from Newshoggers
they want to keep a debate going while they torture. If they keep it up long enough, they soil Obama with it permanently.
Some stuff you can't make up!
They can continue their diabolical activities and continue to delude themselves about besmerching the reputation of Obama till the cows come home. The people will not be fooled by these charlatans and bloviating talking heads. The populace of this country have finally gotten it and have grown up surpassing the wisdom and the intellects of it's representatives, thank goodness.
What kind of evil person kidnaps innocent people then tortured them to lie for 7 years. Then releases them and says they should be grateful the US was letting them go home. What does a 14 year old child think of the US when he is tortured for 7 years and is now 21 years old and sent home after being told he was innocent. What does a man say when he has to watch his 6 and 9 year old children being tortured as he is ordered to say he's the 20th highjacker. How much did the US pay the families for those innocent people they tortured to death. How amny children and woman were released after being tortured and raped by the US. Just what kind of people do this.
Republicans call themselves Christians yet their actions are those of Satan. Why would any detainee like America after what he/she has been put through for 8 years.
And they never cared about his innocence. who the fuck can make a dirty bomb out of a kitchen stove? give me a fucking break!!!!!
Some stuff you can't make up!
Of course, they never cared about the premise of innocence which is the foundation of our national laws. Bush was never part of this democracy; instead, he enacted Napoleonic law: guilty until proven innocent.
If anyone thought that Bush was a real american president, guess again. He thought he was an Imperial Emperor.
rimhotep says: "He (Bush) thought he was an Imperial Emperor."
Apparently, so did the Supreme Court.
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Republicans, that's who.
woodguy
and other officers who stood for what is right should get Medals of Freedom.
Ditto here.I love my country. I made an oath to protect. And I will. But this is just so good that My faith in my fellows isn't misbegotten. I stand beside each and every one of them. And really Thank You Jag officers for being true to the constitution. It is nice to know that you know what that means.
Salud.
.
feel safe yet?
Shrub has been an abject and utter failure at everything he has ever attemted. This, not surprisingly, is no exception.
woodguy
So this is also how the nuclear arsenal was managed for eight years? shudder
Which is how live warheads got shipped from one base to another and no one knew, but the air scouts nonetheless maintained that the weapons were under 'positive control' at all times.
And it's how fusing devices for nuclear weapons wound up getting shipped to Taiwan instead of the batteries they requested, and no one knew.
I would not at all be surprised to learn that the two, seemingly unrelated events, were signs of a botched attempt at a false-flag attack. We 'lose' a warhead that nobody was tracking to begin with, and when the fuses are stolen, all the records say the only thing missing was batteries for a helicopter.
...if only Shrub had had the balls that the Icelandic government showed today, when they realised they weren't up to the task and the people were pissed.
"Iceland's ruling coalition resigned Monday, three months after the collapse of the country's currency, stock market and several major banks, and following months of public protests..."
Well, Bush got out before everything completely collapsed in the US, but he sure as hell farked up enough things before that to know that he had no chance of saving the economy. And yes, Mr Cheney, people COULD see that the economy was going to hell, along with everything else you'd screwed up, some time ago.
... it's not failing per se that's the problem, though Shrub has way more than his allotment.
It's that he FAILS, and then he doesn't learn a gorram thing from the experience. He doesn't get smarter, he doesn't accept responsibility, he doesn't learn to be honest. He just plows through with a hyuck-hyuck and a head bobble (and the occasional tap dance).
Generally, if you say, "I don't know" or "I screwed up," most people will cut you some slack, as long as you then take steps to remedy that lack of knowledge and/or prevent the same kind of screw up from happening again. All we got from the Bush Admin. was a string of, "I don't think anyone knew ..."
...I don't think Bush "failed" - he accomplished what was asked of him; and, sociopaths don't generally learn from their "mistakes' and surely do not ever feel remorse.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
And the blogs like this and the others and the media and the American Citizens are responsible to make sure that those who perpetrated these crimes pay for them. These are evil people. Justice must be served. Let's do it.
The mishandling and scattering of the 'evidence' is disgusting. A box of Omar Khadr's defense papers, etc, suddenly 'disappeared' as well.
Cleaning up the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld et al. mess can provide many thousands of jobs. There are lots of out-of-work lawyers and paralegals and secretaries -- the government should do a wholesale cleanout of Gitmo -- every drawer, filing cabinet, closet, shelf, laptop, desktop, and cell phone, as well as the homes and safe-deposit boxes and storage units of anyone who could possess any evidence. Then put it all in one place and hire, say, 300 people to organize it all and digitize everything.
Shall we call a vote?
Do I hear a second?
Anybody here know Robert's Rules of Order?
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
If Shakespeare were alive today to write a play about the last eight years, indubitably he'd entitle it A Tragedy of Errors
He'd also be very wormy.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
He'd probably even smell as bad as my gym locker in senior year of H.S.
I think I'm turning Japanese, I think I'm turning Japanese, I really think so.....
I think Shakespeare would call the play, "High Crimes and Misdemeanors in the New Age".
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
... was very literal. The title would be, "George XLIII."
It might, however, bear a subtitle, like, "The abject failure of an idiot prince and his corrupt ministers."
I've been thinking that perhaps though too spineless to start investigations against Bush & co. for their more obvious crimes, Obama/Pelosi/Ried perhaps are biding their time, knowing that over the next couple of years, lots of investigatory stuff is bound to pop up, and they are waiting for the one thing that is tangential to Bush, and of a galling enough nature that won't upset repubs.
Perhaps this is it? What?! Someone has bungled the evidence that could result in the world's worst terrorists going free? Free to kill us!? Someone must have screwed up bad. INVESTIGATIONS!
To hear it from the GOP, these people are so dangerous that we can't allow them the benefit of American law, trials in a regular court, or even release them. They'll run right back to al-Qaeda and be attacking us any moment now!
But, for some inexplicable reason, we can't be arsed to keep records on these guys?
Beware. As bad as the prison is in Guantanamo Bay is, this prison in Afghanistan is even worse. It would make no sense at all for Obama to order Gitmo closed if he does not also order this prison to be dismantled.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/nor...
After 8 years of Bush, I'm sure whatever is in the public eye, that we think is bad, there is surely something out of the public eye thats much worse. Obama got a lot of work to do.
I'm getting a bad feeling that the only thing worse than the disorganized torture program is the actual state of the economy, and just what the Federal Reserve has been up to.
I was happy the order seems to be a blanket order and not just Gitmo.
Did anyone notice the interview where VP Biden is saying things are going to have to get ratcheted up in
VietnamAfghanistan with more troops??Thank God the economy has gone south so there are plenty of new recruits for the military. The past few months the military recruiters have been gloating that their quotas are being filled just FINE thank you!
Yippy ka-yay! No draft will be needed due to all the poor schlubs who can't find work and have families to support! Those military benefits are AWESOME too!!!
Here's the link to Biden:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/...
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
Abbybwood
Excellent point. Since Obama and Biden seem intent upon maintaining and creating more aggression against other countries, it then begs the question of where the present administration will get the manpower to keep the war machine going. What they could do is to follow the advice of one of my buttons: DRAFT THE RICH- IT'S THEIR WAR. But that would probably not be too popular with the corporate interests that helped elect Obama and Biden.
need for a draft. Surely no one here is suggesting that military benefits be cut back just to decrease the attractiveness of signing up?
The fact is that the American military cannot keep both Afghan and Iraqi wars (combat theatres?, whatever) staffed without exhausting the armed forces and putting an unconsiounable amount of stress and strain on the military. Moving troops out of Iraq allows the new administration to decrease deployment time while increasing military forces arrayed against the Taliban.
The time for a draft has long since passed (and would not have been supported anyway).
Bob Roberts
Perhaps you read my comments too quickly. Since I, coming from a working-class background, was subjected to a draft those many years ago, I am not in favor of a general draft to occur today. As I stated [in block letters], a draft would be most acceptable if it were confined to those members of society who are most in favor of war, i.e. the chickenhawks and the members of the ruling class. I suspect that if those people were drafted then one would see a far less likelihood of the United States being engaged in more mindless and needless acts of aggression.
David Hicks is still f#@ked up from his Gitmo treatment he still hasn't been able to talk of his ordeal. His father hopes he will be able to get a pardon.
Closing this hellhole has to be done. In every life, there has to be boundaries. Otherwise, there is nothing but anarchy and hate. This is true of countries as well as individuals.
I hear that the 9/11 families are putting their two cents in on this issue. I lost my best friend in 9/11, and it left me with alot of anger...and even for a time a desire for vengeance. Vengeance, however, can blind you.
I am all for punishing those who committed and planned those atrocities, but I truly believe we cannot and should not break our own laws to attain justice.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
I wonder if by now these "detainees" are even mentally fit to stand trial? After what they have been through these last years, I don't see how they could be.
How do we know anyone returned to the battle field? Were they even in the battle field before they were captured? Did they come in innocent but after the way they were treated did they leave determined to seek revenge?
Seems the bush administration was excellent at fu*king up everything they touched.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Depositions compose files...
Study the symptoms not the virus...
Isn't that a bitch? Not really! I expected this kind of scenario for the last 4 years. And this is only beginning. I bet Bush is sorry that he ever became President. Oh yes. In due time, he will be pretty fucking sorry that he was once President of the US.
You have to have a conscience to feel sorry. I don't think that's in Bush's genetic makeup.
I have a suggestion, instead of torturing the prisoners, let them organize the government paperwork against them.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
The entire 8 years of Herr Bush has been a quintessential "tragedy of errors".
I think orange jumpsuits will suit the compexions of all of them: Bush, Cheney, Gonzo, Rummy, Addington, Rove, Rice, and the members of congress who are complicit.
If there's one thing the previous administration was consistent about it was neglect. From Katrina to the economy; from the Constitution to Iraq they neglected the big stuff. Why would we possibly believe they were on top of Gitmo?
they WERE on top of all those things.
Do you REALLY think that people in power are that incompetent.
No...it all went the way they wanted. Drowning brown people fed their "base"...torturing brown people fed the "public"...at the time...burning the Constitution...fed their corporatist "base".
NOTHING in politics happens without a reason. You may not see the reason..but rest assured...it is there.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
Why cannot anybody accept the fact that whatsoever lapses, and gaps, and elisions in the records that exist are the product of conscious decisions to make accountability almost impossible...
I read all the time about folks lamenting the "incompetence" of the Bush administration. The decisions they made were conscious decisions:
to enable/allow/perpetrate 9/11; to invade Iraq to enrich themselves; to roll back civil liberties for Americans; to allow the destruction of the middle class by deregulating, cutting taxes for the rich and allowing corporate fascism to expand; etc., etc. etc.
I'm generally at a loss to understand why more people do not get it -
I guess maybe when your job is gone, your home is taken, you have nothing to eat and your kids or sick, you may see the light......
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Amitola writes: "I'm generally at a loss to understand why more people do not get it - I guess maybe when your job is gone, your home is taken, you have nothing to eat and your kids or sick, you may see the light..."
I used to be a member of a religious cult. I didn't know it was a cult; I denied it was a cult (because the cult denies it's a cult), but eventually I saw the plagiarism and duplicity of its founder and had to leave. I had truly believed in his goodness and wisdom and believed that the teachings were the true way to go.
Giving it up meant I had to revise my entire way of thinking. I had to admit that one I had trusted had lied for his own profit. I had to give up my social network because all the members who stayed shunned me. I had to admit I had let myself be deluded for all those years, had given all that money and time and devotion. Worst of all, I had to change my entire worldview and admit that I had been focusing down into a very, very small world.
This is what faces millions of Americans who have bought into the cult of the fundamentalist Christians and/or the neo-cons. Their leaders tell them what to believe, and also persuade them that they're independent in their beliefs, and that this is right and makes them (and America) strong and safe. People, especially conservatives, have a deep, intense need to feel safe.
So when a hurricane hits and the ones you trusted betray you and literally leave you to drown, you have decisions to make. When your beloved son or daughter or spouse is killed in a foreign war, you have to decide whether it was worth it. I know the pain and disorientation I experienced when I quit the cult -- can you imagine the pain of actually losing a child, or your home or job, because some powerful people wanted more profit?
That's why many people do not get it. It's too damned hard. It hurts too much.
...I agree and understand, really. Change is never easy - I've done a little myself - it's scary and it's damned hard work.
I was just expressing my frustration, and that is why I keep posting, so maybe more people will wake up sooner. 'Cause, I think the pain we're about to experience in the next few years is going to be much worse than most people are expecting. And, I always remember a quote from my H.S. history teacher and, believe me that was quite a while back: forewarned is forearmed.
(I'm sure somebody famous said it first) .....
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
You could be right, but when is the last time you went out in the public arena in this country to do any business? Return a Christmas gift? Return a cable box to Cablevision? Call ANY customer support person for nearly ANY reason?
Look at houses to rent or buy?
You get the idea.
I'm finding gross incompetence and stupidity where ever I go. People just seem to not care about their jobs or performance. Laziness seems to be epidemic in this country. Irresponsibility, lack of accountability and on and on.
Maybe the chemtrails are working??!
"The US has an army of 90,000 soldiers in Afghanistan and is spending $100bn a year, but has still been unable to defeat 20,000-25,000 Taliban who receive no pay at all." - Patrick Cockburn
stationed at these prisons. One of the Gitmo prisoners who was released said that the guards are having a tough time of it; he talked one out of suicide.
and dump it, along with all the other disorganized paperwork, in a pile in the Bush library. Bush doesn't care about his legacy because he will be dead?
The sooner we get on with his legacy, the better.
"Someday somebody related to some of these sufferers, these victims, these collaterally damaged souls, may try to kill you. And I have to tell you, I think you’ll have it coming." - Christopher Cooper
After all that jogging you only give boosh's legs a C?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the 61 detainees who returned to terror?
really?
how come my bullshit detector is ringing in my ear?
distrusting everything that emanates from the DoD, i would bet that a more accurate portrayal of the story is NOT terrorists returning to terror, but, more like, "innocent people turn to terror after being terrorized for years in US custody". or more concise: "the US created 61 terrorists". or even more hard hitting: "gitmo-the american terror training camp".
Bush, Cheney, Rummy & Co. CREATED the "Ticking Time Bomb" they are so fond of using to justify their shameless, vile policies.
The perfect illustration of circular reasoning.
very good point, yet the circular reasoning goes for the entire "war on terror", not just gitmo
How the hell would they know any of them returned to battle? According to a post I just read at Kos, the pentagon doesn't know shit about any of them because the records are so screwed up or don't exist at all.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
This is what I posted yesterday on the thread about Boehner's comments on the Sunday morning "news" show:
"I'm wondering though, if Boner "found" 61 folks that we released from Gitmo back on the battlefield - where are they now?? Back in Gitmo? Or, did John just happen to see them when he was on the "battlefield" directin' the troops?"
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
An asteresk needs to be tacked on to the end of that 61* figure whenever it's brought up by the Gitmo defenders.
It is just a matter of time that someone will slap a lawsuit on this country. I wish someone would go after Bush. I don't know how he can sleep at nite or look at himself in the mirror everyday.
Ignorance is bliss?
Or...maybe he's blinded by the glare of the silver spoon he was raised with.
Vote GOP and move forward to the 18th Century.
... "He can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth."
I always quoted it as:
... "He can't help it. He was born with a silver spoon up his nose."
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
... I question his claim of sobriety. He's still the same George W. Bush as before, the irresponsible, bumbling frat boy who acts like a dope when caught short.
Other people whom I know who have worked the steps change. They don't become perfect; they become aware of their defects of character and make an effort to change for the better.
The insistence that he's made tough decisions, that he's done the right thing, that history will show him to be a hero ... that's alcoholic thinking.
'....launches into an apologia for the Bush administration involving a claim that any and all confusion is entirely due to intelligence agencies being unwilling to share with each other.'
The Department of Homeland Security was established to address the problem of agencies not talking to each other, but the only thing they've been really good at it is transferring wealth to friends in private industry. You know, the GOP scam of 'smaller Gummint' which is really just the same or bigger government budgets, funneled into private hands (because 'competition' is so much more efficient than 'big' government).
Every agency has been perverted by the Bush administration. Pick any agency, look at what it's stated aims are and you will find many of their actions to be the opposite. Try EPA, FCC, SEC, FDA, BLM, OSHA et al.
Gitmo is no different.
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