Leahy Calls For Bush Years "Truth Commission"
By Steve Hynd Monday Feb 09, 2009 6:00pmApril 2008: BBC's Newsnight interviews US Judge Advocate Diane Beaver about the Bush administration's legallese cover-story for war crimes.
I truly loathe the notion of torturers and those who ordered torture getting away with it.
Democratic Senator Patrick Leahy, chairman of the Judiciary Committee, called for the commission as way to heal what he called sharp political divides and to prevent future abuses.
He compared it to other truth commissions, such as one in South Africa that investigated the apartheid era.
"We need to come to a shared understanding of the failures of the recent past," Leahy said in a speech to the Georgetown University law school.
"Rather than vengeance, we need a fair-minded pursuit of what actually happened," he said. "And we do that to make sure it never happens again," Leahy said.
I'm unclear on how just saying "now we know" will stop any of it happening again. Trials and prison sentences would surely accomplish far more as a deterrent to possible future copycats - that's partly why we don't just slap the wrists of abusers or rapists and say "we know what you did!"
Leahy said he had not yet begun to promote the idea with the administration of President Barack Obama or with the Democratically controlled Congress. But he suggested it could be formed by both Congress and the White House, and said the panel must have credibility across the political spectrum.
Issues to investigate would include the Justice Department's firings of several U.S. attorneys, which Leahy said may have been motivated by a White House aim to influence elections, policies on the treatment of terrorism suspects and other areas "where (congressional) committees were lied to."
This included the war in Iraq, he said. "There were lies told to the American people all the way through."
Screw bipartisanship and "credibility across the political spectrum". When one party's senior leadership for eight years has deliberately broken international and US laws while their supporters make excuses for them, they should be treated as having given up any right to respect or to having a voice in how their crimes are handled. Unfortunately, the Democratic Party's leadership seems divided into two camps. One cannot shake off its fear of the GOP's noise machine and its fear of losing elections to do what is right. The other apparently has no intention of looking too hard into crimes they might want to commit themselves.
I firmly believe America can handle the truth - my experience as an ex-pat living here is that Americans are mainly good and just and I believe that if all the secrets are revealed in courts of law then Americans will be outraged and demand justice - but its political leadership either cannot or will not.
Crossposted from Newshoggers
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Right about now, Dick Cheney's wondering whether he really should have told Leahy to go fuck himself that time.
That's exactly what I was thinking.
N-A-Z-I'-S????
One doesn't deal with weeds by leaving their roots in the ground.
The GOP, or a version, will again be in power and these past crimes will be precedent to them, as a taking off point.
No kidding. Why does the law hesitate? Is this really happening? Is there really two justice systems now? Aw Man!
already we're being told we ought somehow not hold criminals accountable; that it's time for the nation to "heal".
let's see... how has that worked out so far...
KENNEDY ASSASSINATED: public told to accept warren commission report, even as the bodies of anyone with any pertinent info are piling up all over the country. public told no one in gov't had anything to do with it. public told it's best for the nation to "heal".(2003 ABC poll reveals 70% of americans do not believe warren commission report. this number has surely increased with the exponential advent of the internet.)
RESULT: criminals get off the hook; are allowed to regroup; public is denied truth. vietnam war escalates, 58,000 u.s. service men and women as well as untold countless vietnamese civilians die FOR NO GOOD REASON.
WATERGATE: many of the same characters suspected of being involved in dallas in '63, including e. howard hunt and richard nixon himself, turn up anew. this time they are caught stealing info from the democrats in d.c... public is told by nixon's successor, gerald ford that it's "time for the nation to heal", pardons nixon for crimes he never confesses to committing.
RESULT: criminals get off the hook; are allowed to regroup; public is denied the truth. americans never learn what the watergate burglars were after (rumored to be info about "that bay of pigs" thing), americans never learn what nixon knew and when he knew it. republicans lose presidential election in '76, reportedly work a backroom deal with iran to undermine carter, reagan voted into office.
IRAN-CONTRA: by the time this one comes up, these guys are really cocky. oliver north turns the proceedings into a circus, john poindexter taunts americans by lighting up a cigar in senate hearings.
RESULT: criminals get off the hook; are allowed to regroup; public is denied the truth. sure, some guys get a slap on the wrist, but h.w. later pardons the whole rogue's gallery, and no one ever learns what reagan knew, and when he knew it. republicans spend 140 million dollars of taxpayer money investighating whether or not h.w.'s successor got a b.j.; bush jr. elected in 2000.
9/11, IRAQ INVASION, ABANDONMENT OF THE GENEVA CONVENTIONS, ABANDONMENT OF HABEUS CORPUS, THE TRASHING OF THE CONSTITUTION: this one's still being written
RESULT: well, what's it gonna be?
i'll tell you what it might be: if obama is serious about letting these guys off the hook this time, he's condemning your kids to a fate worse than our own.
it is also worth noting that we are officially no longer a nation of laws, and that the jeffersonian democracy is officially dead.
that there be accountability for what these bastards have done.
you simply can't let them regroup -what they'll cook up next will be far worse.
.
i meant to say the jeffersonian democracy experiment is officially dead.
(and yes i know america was technically founded as a republic, but my basic point stands).
There will be NO "truth" in any such commission, never has been, never will, it's all lies to protect the money.
My name is Big John and I guarantee it.
Sounds a tad too Orwellian to me.
Wasn't the Ministry of Truth where Winston Smith worked?
but I don't want a bunch of sociopaths get off the hook with an admission and apology.
Really? Well guess what........
We already know the truth! We want our country back (fat chance) and we want justice.
JUSTICE. Know what that is? It's people paying a penalty for crimes committed.
I'm sick of this "can we all sit down and talk about it" bullshit.
If everybody is going to kiss and make up, it may please the criminals but it isn't justice.
A BIG rug with a big broom, sweep everything underneath.
they used after 9/11.
Obama needs time to keep those Bush laws in place, butter up to all the Repubs, and cement those great bills he helped the Neocons push through, before anyone has a right to question anything he does. I've actually been reading on other blogs, and the comments are almost vomit inducing.
...and then nothing will happen.
Wasn't Conyers supposed to be re-subpoena-ing Rove, like, last week?
This is pathetic.
conyers was working on this in january. leahy is pushing for it. so YES something is brewing. hopefully this will reduce the negative Obama chant. i mean really three weeks.
Ya, you're right. People should just be quiet and let him go for a year or two terms first.
well what a surprise. i can OFTEN count on you to be over the top/dramatic/overswing to the other side of the issue/spectrum. yeah.......three weeks NOT to be confused with "a year or two terms first".
cuz he has no stake in what goes on in the states
until we shut off nafta and he cant get a job
Why would a truth commission or a subpoena to Rove quiet the nagative Obama "chant".
Actions speak louder then words?
wow some people really bought into the (R) linguistic talking points for superman high expectations of Obama. NO i don't like kool-aid. man some people are preoccupied with the glass being less than full.
man lighten the gtip on the pitchforks.
Didn't think so.
Music to my ears tonight - Obama's response to the nation was that "no one is above the law".
This means Bush and Cheney will be in orange jumpsuits soon.
With little drop-backs.
If the US does not hold the Bush Jr Administration, or it's bipartisan congressional lackeys, politically and, most importantly, criminally responsible for all the death, ruin, corruption and anger they've wrought around the world, then someone will hold us accountable, with another Sept. 11th-style terrorist attack.
But I'm not convinced the Bush Jr Administration will actually escape all reckoning, after all, guys like Slobodan Milosevic, Augusto Pinochet, Nicolai Ceausescu and John Gotti either were convicted and punished, or died in custody, outcomes no doubt they thought they'd never have to endure or worry about.
We all know that special "commissions" are simply large area rugs under which is swept a legion of sins. This is not going to fly this time.
We KNOW the truth. We KNOW which laws have been broken - and by whom. If this is the impotent congress's way of shoving things under the nearest rug, we've got big news for them.
There was a democrats.now petition as well as a phone number for Eric Holder. The response to hold the Bush administration accountable for their crimes was so overwhelming that they began putting the email into a holding area. The secretary who answered Holder's phone said that the phone had been ringing off the hook. Good work, people!
Now Holder needs to immediately appoint a special prosecutor so it's not left up to congress to do any rug-shoving shenanigans.
Its OK to do shit like this to human beings now, not a 'crime against humanity' anymore.
http://thinkprogress.org/2009/02/09/mohamed-t...
And is there any American journalist/editor/news outlet with cajones enough to tell the American public what Bushco did in our names to our 'gulag' inmates.
We sank to the level of the Third Reich by doing this crap.
Congressional Democrats will not allow any serious investigation of wrongdoing by the Bush Administration because they are complicit.
We MAY get a little action on the politicizing of the Justice Department, but that's about it.
Torture? Illegal war? Illegal wiretapping? Illegal rendition?
Nope. Nope. Never happened. Can't recall.
Add to that Bush's blackmail of every member of Congress with his data mining and warrantless wiretapping. Just because he and his henchman are gone from the stage doesn't mean that they still cannot contaminate the setting from afar.
Is all the US communications still being listened to in room 318 of ATT&T? It is AT&T where they listen in on what we all say or write isn't it? I guess that's why we have encryption, btw.
...Obama voted for immunity from prosecution for telecom companys.
And, for openers, thanks to Dennis Kucinich who stood in the Senate for 6 hours to register 38 articles of impeachment - all with pertinent dates, facts, etc.
This is precisely where Leahy needs to begin. Since Kucinich outled every crime so beautifully, there's really not much to investigate.
Kucinich did all of Leahy's work for him.
See my post and link to the ThinkProgress article.
The Bushco crusaders tortured people's genitals with scalples.
As well as the court documented testimony of the child rapes by TLA types at Abu Gharib.
So remember the next time one of these CIA Washington types are on the boob tube dressed in their fancy expensive suits, with a friendly smile and lying excuses for more and more GWOT and surges.
Take away their saville row suits and dress them in a SS uniform with deathshead insignia, it will fit them perfectly.
As much as I like Obama ,
a) Dubya is Bush Sr.'s son
b) Bush Sr. is buddy-buddy with Bubba Clinton
c) Bubba Clinton is married to Hillary
d) Hillary is Obama's secretary of state
End of investigation. "sigh"
Not in a democracy.. Oh, wait.
... before we find out what happened?
I believe in a Truth Commission. Not a congressional committee but a public forum. It would not hurt for our nation to take a public stand for morality.
If one doesn't see the carrot for society, let's look at the stick. For all their lip service toward evangelicals, Republicans seem a little dense on grasping the "guilt thing" when it comes to the damage they do to society and the populace who compose it. That leaves us the Roman alternative: Shame. Public humiliation.
It sets the stage for change that will hopefully make it more unlikely we have the excesses of these war crimes again -- at least from the individuals involved as they mature in the D.C. environment. We should want them to have less opportunity than Nixon's Rumsfeld and Cheney to rise to unleash their poison decades later.
Otherwise, it's just saying: "You've been a naughty little boy.", with no punishment. Meaningless. It doesn't even work on kids, does it?
Just look at what happened this afternoon in Federal Court
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2009/0...
and make sure you're near a vomitorium.
It is one thing to understand that the Bush-era policies will continue, but it is another thing to prove that in court!
Here we are in the same boat with a different head puppet. Not as pasty or as dimwitted, but still embracing the disastrous mistakes of American foreign policy.
Afghanistan, Russia, Iran and Iraq. Can America move beyond chickenshit bombing and destroying human life for military hegemony? The future looks even darker now when these legal tests on key issues fail.
This is no surprise to those that payed attention to his election rhetoric. Obama spelled it all out beforehand - unflinching support to Israel, no peace in the Middle East, more wars and more imaginary Iranian nukes and more War of Terror fiction. It's just sad to see it all laid bare.
"This is no surprise to those that payed attention to his election rhetoric. Obama spelled it all out beforehand..."
I say no kidding? you can say that again!!! (never mind his "election rhetoric")!!!
...what about that little stint as a senator fron Illonois? (dontcha remember) he voted for the patriot act, the homegrown terror act, wiretapping immunity for AT&T, and voted for a big fat bankster bailout too...
you bet your ass Obama "spelled it all out" beforehand!!!!!like two years ago!
bush lite!
Put a commission, blue ribbon panel or anything else short of a trial in a court of law together with 50 cents and you can buy a copy of USA Today.
I am not moved by this woman's story. She is a criminal and belongs in jail.
Get in line behind 9/11 truth seekers...We been in line a lot longer...and where were you six years ago Leahy?
...not scared of anymore anthrax letters for some reason huh Leahy?
like everyone here i want justice. i still believe patience/timing is important. Obama is multi-tasking on a high level right now. let leahy,kucinich and conyers get the details/truth and prosecute if possible. BUSH and company(yoo/addington) made this very difficult/opaque. they knew this day could come. fear and war was a free pass for the BUSH/christian soldiers.
People are being tortured to death! Human beings are having their penises cut with scalpels!
Timing? There is not much time left for those prisoners.
please give me the answer(s) that will ABSOLUTELY stop the torture and killing/wars right now?
Fire the CIA. Also, punish those responsible for torture and killings.
But mostly, respect people and their lives, regardless of where they live. Don't try to put state before your humanity, because that's a false choice. In a democracy the state serves humanity by definition.
[i know - retorical quetion]
Obama's comments on the Leahy proposal could be address by two divergent headlines: 'Obama believes in equal justice for all' and 'Obama believes in looking forward rather than backward'. These don't have to be mutually exclusive.
We need testimony and indictments.
We also need to let Obama set his own priorities. I TRUST him to get this right... EVENTUALLY.
on the side of torture.
Trust him?
Never again.
Next government commission to be set up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdwMSONE-aw
Don't let up. Think of all the suffering that has occurred due to these guys' criminal acts. Keep after them.
it's why i'm not giving up on obama 3 weeks into his administration.
he always said during the campaign that change comes from the grassroots, from the bottom up.
WE have to work together to build consensus, to generate public outrage where appropriate.
it seems like a lot of folks thought their work was done once obama got in; that was only the beginning.
obama CAN'T implement the change we want until the debate on any given subject has been clearly won, and until the american people, by consensus, have his back -because god knows the msm and old washington sure as hell don't have his back.
everyone has their hot-button issue. mine happens to be an independent 9/11 investigation.
but i know that debate (the need for such an investigation) hasn't been yet won, concisively. i do think it will be soon; america can handle the truth -i'm positive.
i think you may be correct. 'america can handle the truth' i wonder how the rest of the world will take the truth. will there be consequences on a large scale if the story is different than what everyone has been told.
... but the rest of the world is already figuring out the truth regarding that fateful day.
it's already been discussed openly in japanese parliament, in british parliament, by a former italian prime minister, by former MI5, etc., etc.
it doesn't matter how effective the american mainstream media propaganda apparatus operates, the rest of the world isn't waiting for joe sixpack to get his thumb out of his @$$.
and as large as you say the consequences will be if the true story is different than what has already been told... they will be far more grave if the true story is different than what has already been told and we americans do nothing.
i strongly suspect a lot of this will come to a head soon, with the afghan surge.
if you've been sitting on the fence thus far, even though you know something about why we were told we needed to be in afghanistan doesn't quite add up -it will soon be time to make your voice heard, because as dr. king so eloquently stated, there comes a time when SILENCE IS BETRAYAL.
They will not continue to bankroll a corrupt justice avoiding country.
It will be sanctions on the quiet, and if the Empire wants the worlds resources, it will have to use military force to to seize them.
Do we have enough bases and troops overseas to dominate the world !?
WELL SAID!
oh my aching nuts , thier never was or will be any attempt by obama to investigate any of these rape mutilate torture douchbags hes in step with the nazi bastards who came before him as proof observe his votes for everything bush wanted, its no wonder liberdick and guys like pat robertson adore him!
"It isn't merely that the Obama DOJ is invoking the privilege for this particular case, which contains allegations of torture that are as brutal and severe as any. That's bad enough. But worse is that they're invoking the most abusive parts of the Bush theory: namely, that the privilege can be used to block the adjudication of entire cases (rather than, say, justify the concealment of specific classified documents or other pieces of evidence), and, worse still, can be used to prevent judicial scrutiny even when the alleged government conduct is blatantly illegal and, as here, a war crime of the greatest seriousness.
They're embracing a theory that literally places government officials beyond the rule of law. No minimally honest person who criticized the Bush administration for relying on this instrument can defend the Obama administration for doing so here."
"No minimally honest person who criticized the Bush administration for relying on this instrument can defend the Obama administration for doing so here."
Yup.
Regards, C
Has he checked with 'off the table' Pelosi and 'stern letter' Reid?
/ain't gonna happen.
Leahy's proposal will keep the fact public that right now the USA has had and looks to me is going to continue to a have government that commits war crimes and keeps the facts of the crimes secret with a claim of national security. For justice to be served it will likely come from outside the USA, just as Pinochet was arrested and convicted but not by Chile's justice system.
at :42 seconds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79HJj9PewU8&fe...
Leahy is long on talk, but short on action. Remember all those tough words about subpoenas etc., for Rove, Miers, and the rest? I don't think they even issued them after all the tough talk. Even if they did, none of the loyal Bushies have showed up.
The Rethugs know the Dems are spineless cowards, and know they can do what they want without worry. I'm from VT and I pounded Leahy for years on these issues. Nothing changes until the politicians are voted out. And even then, with our true one party system, not much changes.
Nope you can believe in.
Leahy had a predictable pattern of initial holding back before giving in every single time. He was a sleepy dormouse just 5 years ago. Hmm, good point.
your quote: I'm unclear on how just saying "now we know" will stop any of it happening again. Trials and prison sentences would surely accomplish far more as a deterrent to possible future copycats - that's partly why we don't just slap the wrists of abusers or rapists and say "we know what you did!"
Leahy can't start tossing around demands for prosecution or indictments willy-nilly. He has to lay the ground work first. After the evidence is clearly obvious and unimpeachable testimony has been presented, then he will have no choice BUT to request a special prosecutor and begin the indictment phase.
Be patient my little grasshopper. Be patient.
Dear Mr. Leahy,
Meet my friend, John Conyers.
Here's a thought: let's just look the other way. Then, the everyone will be emboldened to torture more and then we'll be all up in arms about it but nothing gets done, so people are emboldened even more and more torture but nothing gets done. Eventually, our enemies pull people, who happen to come from a country that tortures, off the street and they get tortured because, hey, who cares? Everybody does it. Sure nothing so simplistic but if we don't intend on honoring international obligations, why bother signing them. Hey, if we don't honor obligations on torture, why bother to honor ANY obligation.
That America, can't trust it!
I'm very pissed off with the Obama administration over this and I know the economy is dominating the agenda, but this requires a simple decision to set up a commission, something like, "we need a commmission!", to get it going. I don't see it needing $1 trillion or anything so why can't that decision be made?
.
Q U E S T I O N:
What type of character must one have to consider committing acts of TORTURE and war crimes a "NO BRAINER"?
Besides the ugliness of TORTURE, when the Bush Administration sought how to scape the thresholds of the Geneva Conventions and especially in light of the history of the USA in regards to international detention laws and rules of war conduct, on it's face this appears to be an attempt and assault upon the Rule of Law and the American Justice system by the former Administration of the USA.
None dare call it TREASON.
I didn't know that I can get some lackey lawyer to write an "OPINION" about... murder, rape, theft, spying, no... no, let's say TORTURE. Yea, TORTURE. You know, an "OPINION" that's it's legal when it suits me. YES?
Did we not learn from Nixon?
.
From the Washington Indie today on a relevant part of Obama's presser Monday.
"My view is also that nobody is above the law and if there are clear instances of wrongdoing people should be prosecuted just like ordinary citizens. But generally speaking I’m more interested in looking forward than I am in looking backwards."
The Indie's Daphne Eviatar writes:
My problem is that we saw in the Appeals Court today that the Obama administration is going to keep on using the Bush administration's blanket "state secrets" defense to stop any evidence from ever coming out.
So it's really lawyer-speak. Translated it becomes "We'll invesitigate if there's any real evidence - and we'll be making sure there isn't any."
Regards, C
... is to collectively keep hammeribg obama over this "let's move forward" nonsense...
thank god the f.b.i. and the justice department didn't say "let's just move forward" here in illinois -they threw governor ryan in a paddy wagon for crimes he committed before he was even governor.
the more obama covers for the crooks in the federal government, the more everyone will start wondering if obama himself is as dirty as blagojevich, and obama will be a one term president...
*hammering
(sorry, still fuelin' up on the mornin' cup o' joe...)
What are you waiting for?
Has no cover. She claims that she was "left hanging out there", who put her out there? She did. This woman was an enabler of George Bush. She's one of the people who think that your morals can shift when your goals change. It was her job to contradict the President, the gutless bag.
but no one seems to give it much thought.
Read this again:
"Issues to investigate would include the Justice Department's firings of several U.S. attorneys, which Leahy said may have been motivated by a White House aim to influence elections, policies on the treatment of terrorism suspects and other areas 'where (congressional) committees were lied to.'"
Compare that to the definition of domestic terrorism as defined by the USA Patriot Act:
A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act "dangerous to human life" that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to: (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.
It's not as obvious as a smoking gun but if it can be proven that those attorneys were fired to prevent them from investigating dirty politicians, then, then someone IS trying to influence policy via coercion.
Try 'em as terrorists, I say.
...is to sign over jurisdiction to the World Court, to investigate and indict U.S. war criminals, and then to turn over those accused to the World Court for prosecution and punishment.
Leahy was my Senator (until I moved to Maine with the goal of ending Susan Collins career). If there is a truth commission, it should tell the truth about the Dems bending over and rubber stamping the Bush crimes. Talk is cheap.
Really, the only solution is investigation, indictment, trial, sentence and then jail, or death sentence (for the treasonous crimes, many) for the previous rPresident and his Junta.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090210/ap_on_go_...
Isn't Christianity lovely? War crime atrocities, torture, treason, Christianity is just wonderful, huh?
This woman ('Diane') is doing her absolute best to immunize herself from what she clearly knew was illegal, immoral and criminal. The disgusting part of this is that the BBC seems to want to make her a foil to skewer the heads of the Bush/Cheney Administration and lets her off the hook for her participation in this vile business. Having taken seminars in watching the body language of someone to determine their veracity, this women clearly is lying through her teeth. She knew it was wrong and she did it anyway. The DOJ absolutely should not let even the lowest ranking participant in this horrid chapter of our history off the hook.
Hey that’s not a bad idea, let’s turn this thing around though....How about an investigation to find the truth of the following, which were NEVER investigated: 1. The true cause of the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. 2. Why their CEO's (Democrat hacks) made millions in salaries and bonuses while they were giving out bad loans to greedy “Joe Blows” on the street who could not afford them. 3. How Democrat socialist policies going back to Carter accelerated the mortgage crisis (HINT-HINT, Community Re-Investment Act) 4. Why Democrat Congressional oversight failed to catch this (while Bush and Republicans warned of it two years in advance) --- and How much was contributed to democrat campaigns to see that it did not. HMMMMMMMMMMMMM?----esp. Barney Frank 5.How many American soldiers died as a result of Democratic Congressmen holding press conferences and revealing secrets they received in White House security briefings, including but not limited to the revelation that we were tracking Bin Laden via his satellite phone early in the conflict. Which by the way mysteriously went dark after that press conference for some reason? (targets---Reed, Leahy, Pelosi, et.al.). 6. The possession of hundreds of FBI private files on leading Republicans, conservative groups and leaders by the Clinton Administration, in spite of that fact it was illegal for them to possess. 7. What about Clinton and secret arms deals with China;.... Obama and his associations with known terrorist......Turn this thing around and you will see why Democrats WILL NOT INVESTIGATE----I’ll bet my next paycheck they won’t.
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