Dispatch From Guntopia
This morning, on the 15th Anniversary of the Oklahoma City mass murder, I drove from Washington, D.C. across the 14th Street Bridge to get on the George Washington Memorial Parkway and attend an "open carry" gun rally at Fort Hunt, Virginia.
On my way, I passed the Holocaust Museum, where a deluded Neo-Nazi, in a final act of vengeance for having been born, chose to spray bullets into the flesh and bone of a security guard whose only crime was trying to earn a paycheck. Off in the distance, you could almost see the Pentagon, where John Patrick Bedell wreaked havoc after being declared mentally unfit to possess a firearm by the state of California--because he simply bought one with no questions asked at a Nevada gun show. Bedell took advantage of the gun-show loophole to shoot those serving our country at the Pentagon, because of his hatred for it.
Finally, we arrived at Fort Hunt, to see a bevy of mostly middle-aged white men compare the United States of America to Nazi Germany, the Ku Klux Klan and a slave-state (among other niceties) while carrying assault weapons and dressing like they were auditioning for the remake of Red Dawn. A highlighted speaker was Mike Vanderboegh (seen in the video above), an Alabama militia leader who most infamously encouraged his followers to throw bricks through the windows of local Democratic Parties.
In a very different reality, Tom Mauser, whose son was gunned down in the Columbine massacre, and families of those murdered at Virginia Tech, today called on our leaders to lead on an issue where 86% of gun owners (including 69% of NRA members) agree with the rest of us, according to known liberal Frank Luntz: That we MUST close the gun show loophole. We must do more to stop criminals, terrorists and the mentally unfit from getting their hands on weapons that kill.
To protesters at the Fort Hunt rally, the federal government, a health care bill and their personal interpretation of the Constitution are reasons for everyone to be armed and ready to do battle (although, interestingly, during the Bush Administration's assault on the Constitution with the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, turning Gitmo into, well, Gitmo, rendition, etc., we didn't hear much from this crowd). Losing an election is just another justification for political violence.
To the victims of gun violence, who realize we aren't living in some Wyatt Earp fantasy land, perhaps getting guns out of the hands of those who fetishize violence and commit crimes and terrorist acts is just a tad bit more important. This likely includes some of those paranoid souls listening to the speakers at the Fort Hunt rally, perhaps planning to be the next one to shoot someone at the Pentagon or fly an airplane into an IRS building.
Which world do you live in on the 15th anniversary of an American tragedy? And which one do you want to live in?
Disclosure: I consulted for the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence (CSGV) on this project
with a chip on his shoulder,
maybe discriminatory, alcoholic, or
even someone who is high
on chrystal methamphetamines?
Dr. Hoffman took the first LSD trip.The good doctor had no idea he would change the world.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
that this thread is going to get ugly?
admittedly get very emotional about this subject. And sometimes people who are against gun control can be pretty nasty if you even admit to having experiences with guns that don't match theirs. So I might lurk a little while first and see how the wind blows...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
if guns were outlawed. In this day and age no one needs them. If you want to join a militia then join the national guard.
wars. But I'm sure that's a bit much for the chickenhawk non-military folk in the militias...
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
how is a national guard going to do anything without the guns that have been outlawed?
still has armories.
I thought that an armory was made up of guns.
http://momstinfoilhat.files.wordpress.com/200...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
While I have no problem with sensible, responsible gun ownership, I draw the line at the reckless disregard for society I see in these people. Whatever version of the US they think is under assault isn't the one that resides in this reality.
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
responsible is so very right.
However, in the real world, have you ever witnessed a bar fight? can you ever imagine the destruction and death would spread, if someone has a gun in a bar fight? It could get very deadly and very fast. There should be laws, like rules and regulations to follow, but sometimes in this world, you will witness first hand that some people dont take safety and security as a top priority.
Responsible means not taking your gun into a bar, or a theater, or the supermarket. It means keeping it out of the hands of children, the mentally incompetent, and the deranged. It means using it in a manner that does not threaten the life or liberty of another citizen, unless in the course of self defense.
And, yes, I have seen, and been in, my share of bar fights. I once got into a fracas with a bunch of Marines who claimed me and my swabbies were "stealin' their girls", a group of Air Force women, in a bar in Adak, Alaska. And, guess what? We settled it with our fists, a few heads, an elbow or three, the odd foot to the groin, and a passel of broken bottles. Not a single gun to be found in the whole place...imagine that.
Oh, and the girls all left with us squids...must have been our "crackerjacks" that got 'em. ;-)
"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati" - Red Green
Freedom Ain't Free - Pay Your Share
:>)
I spent some years as a squid and I distinctly remember the marines and army guys always being jealous of our ability to woo the ladies. The crackerjack was a pain in the butt with 13 buttons(especially at a bar) but they worked rather well at hiding spilt beer and blood. I see nothing wrong with hunting weapons, but who needs an Uzi? Who needs to carry any weapon just out and about? Maybe I live in a safer place than these "patriots"
13 chances to say "no".
Why didn't someone think to bring firecrackers?
Happy Tim McVeigh Day pistol packin fatass mofos.
"every cloud is silver liney"
...and disappointed that real(white) Americans didn't armed themselves and revolt against "Big Government(yeah riiight)" once that n****r took over their White House.
You got it , beneath most of this is the fact that they are white hicks who are afraid of black people , they are actually afraid of Obama . It's too much for them that a black man became president .It's only a matter of time and one or a group of these Beck / Bachman inspired loonies will commit an act of violence and of course it will be the liberal media , the Democrats or Obama's fault .The FBI has their hands full these days .
Insanity , it is what it is , there is no understanding it .
The racists spewed an especially toxic vitriol upon those of us white folks who participated in the civil rights movement.
A black person can't help being black, and should accept his inferior status.
But a white person who accepts blacks as equals is a traitor to his race - no lower form of life on the planet.
[I've never done this type of thing before, exactly, but to those of you who flagged this comment, I think you misread it. MountainMan wasn't giving his perspective, but illustrating a racist perspective. Thank you. Site Monitor]
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
The people clamoring for an end to the mysterious gunshow loophole have probably never been to a gunshow. Nearly every dealer at gunshows is a federally licensed FFL holder requiring NICS background checks.
The only people selling at gunshows without an FFL and not doing background checks are private individuals trying to do trades or clean out their collections without having to get stuck paying an FFL to do transfers for them.
There is no gunshow loophole. That term was invented because calling it what it is, a complete ban on private firearms sales, wouldn't have a snowballs chance at getting any traction by panic voters.
It is disingenuous to call it that, and I think you know that. If you really believe this is a huge problem, tell it like it is. You don't want private individuals to be able to sell firearms.
Meh.
I'm not sure how you tell the difference between a private individual cleaning out their collection and an unlicensed dealer selling from their inventory. No matter, though, as an individual with a dirty background check and walk out with a gun in either case.
I can't sell my car without the gov knowing about the title transfer. The same goes for my house, boat etc... I can't sell my prescription drugs to another private individual, period. I'm unclear why private gun sales should have protections these others don't.
So my choice is between spineless and evil?
first comment about what is apparently your favorite subject, gun control. You do not want to get spanked in public today. The natives are restless. Don't say you were not warned.
Shrine of the Mall Ninja
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s69/Donr10...
me-oww!
Head.
Hit it.
;)
"I am the Sergeant of a three-man Rapid Tactical Force at one of America’s largest indoor retail shopping areas."
I think I peed my flannels a little bit when I read that.
Sadly, I was depleted of fluids when I read-
"I am a Master of three martial arts including ninjitsu, which means I can wear the special boots to climb walls."
-and regretfully was unable to re-wet my pants.
Remember, leave no child behind.
I've had this site in my RSS reader for several years. I did in fact make an account to post about my favorite subject. I don't really care if someone disagrees with me or attempts to "spank" me.
I posted my opinion. Now I am going to close my browser tab and let you enjoy being smug about something as stupid as posting on the internet. Have fun!
One more thing before I go. You can get worked up about gun rights as much as you want, but there is a reason that 48 states have perfectly rational concealed carry laws, that there is no federal gun registry, and it has nothing to do with hunting. Gun control is a losing issue because most people don't want it.
So keep fighting the good fight. And losing. Repeatedly.
:)
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
What branch of the service did you serve in?
The 2nd Amendment is only the right to bear arms in a well-regulated militia, nothing more. It says nothing about the right of ownership, least of all the right to carry concealed weapons.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the heller decision put the kibosh on the militia argument. mcdonald vs chicago will most likely go even further.
concealed carry is another issue entirely, but 48 of 50 state governments think it is a great idea.
Ownership? Yes. That's there. Concealed carry? That depends on how significant an infringement it is on the right of the people.
Nothing limits the right of the people to keep and bear arms to a well regulated militia. The Amendment merely states that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state.
Turning a right of the people into a power of the government is somewhat Orwellian.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Private ownership would be through the 9th amendment, not the 2nd...
You know the amendment conservatives hate...
Additionally, Heller was a total ban in Washington DC, not merely regulating the possession thereof...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
managed to skirt the whole "well regulated" part?
The court didn't skirt it the well regulated part in Heller. They reserved the power of Congress to regulate firearms. But they dropped the militia part, even though it was explicitly in the language, just in an odd sentence structure.
But considering it came so soon after the Shay's Rebellion, it was obvious they didn't consider it a bunch of crackers reaching for their pop-guns.
Funny thing, for the "pro-gun" amendment it never mentions guns or ownership, just unspecified arms, and the bearing of it. Bearing generally means in some kind of organized troop structure, otherwise you would use the term ownership.
Yet here in Texas I could get arrested for owning a sword cane, and in any number of states own a knife over a certain length or some martial arts weapons...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
heller affirmed that the second amendment provides an individual right to keep and bear arms. the decision only applied to the federal government, though. mcdonald is an attempt to incorporate the second amendment against the states, which will likely succeed.
there are going to be a lot of cases post-heller that will determine what reasonable controls are permissible. where the court will fall on those issues remains to be seen. heller 2 is upcoming which will argue that the new DC regs are still a defacto ban. if the second is incorporated against the states, this will have a fairly large impact.
Through the VI amendment as well as the XIV a federal decision goes all the way to the state.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Selective incorporation. The court purposefully did not rule on the incorporation of the second amendment to the states in Heller, which is why McDonald v. Chicago was filed.
They did so because that wasn't an issue at point.
And meanwhile the VI and XIV amendments still apply.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
the loophole is as big as a tunnel!where i live(az) theres a gun show every 3 months,co. fairgrounds.here's how it goes....."how much for that glock or shotgun or rifle?".....$400....you hand over the money,you're handed the weapon,you walk away.that's how you get a gun.no paper work,questions,nothing. scary,but true.
And it is going to pass where you do not have to get a C.C.W. permit.in this state....boy,i'm feeling safer
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
Apparently you haven't seen the videos where people go under cover and buy guns without any checks at all being done at gun shows, by people who have been authorized as FFLs. So nice try, but no one is buying your lie.o
Besides sharing his White Man's Embarassment, Ed Shulz also points out that the Obama administration has done exactly Zip .. Nada .. NOTHING .. to limit gun ownership.
And in fact Obama has an F rating from the Brady Campaign Against Gun Violence.
But Willful Ignorance rules in the Hatriots' minds.
You're Embarrassing Caucasians In This Country!
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
from him as usual.
He hunts, doesn't he?
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
.. said he owns a spread on the plains where he and his 3 sons hunt ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
more coming from him as a gun owner and hunter.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
pretty worked up about gun talk, but I think maybe I can handle it... :)
I recognize that for some people guns have been a source of pleasure, that some people enjoy hunting or target shooting, etc. I don't fault them for that, honest I don't. It's the people who think only of themselves and their own pleasure and don't think about what having guns everywhere does to other people.
I've basically talked about these things before, but I've basically grown up with gun violence or fear of gun violence my entire life. My father loved to hunt, but in my lifetime, my exposure to guns has all been bad.
Dad was domestically violent when drunk for the bulk of my childhood. There was this brief period of time when I was 10 years old where he did own a gun while I was alive, and that was terrifying, since he had hurt me before, and since he had threatened my mother's life within my earshot before that as well. The statistics I've seen on gun violence seem to suggest that she or I would be more likely to die of a gunshot in that scenario than out on street.
When I was 12, there were a couple of things that had happened. A man who lived across the street from us was shot four times in an abandoned lot while he was coming home from the bar. I remember waking up to the site of yellow tarp covering his body, the coroner vehicles, and the neighborhood people standing around while the crime scene was processed.
Also that year, I was at home when the uncle of one of my neighbors at the time shot my neighbor and the neighbor shot his uncle. I didn't see the actual shooting, but I saw the seconds before it, and the aftermath, plus I heard everything. The uncle's family threatened to shoot my neighbor's entire family. That was terrifying, since I couldn't tell whether they realized I was the closest witness to the shooting.
As a young woman I've had to tell people I know that their friends and acquaintances have murdered through gun violence. It's not a fun thing to do (to put it mildly).
I have PTSD for reasons other than the gun violence, but when a rash of gun violence breaks out here locally, it usually triggers (pun not intended) an episode of PTSD symptoms (so maybe the gun violence is a part of why I have PTSD, I don't know).
I don't begrudge people who enjoy hunting or target practice, but I think the government has an obligation to balance their interests with those of communities like mine that are affected by gang and other gun violence, or for the country as a whole, which deserves safety from the extremist violence represented by militias, and other anti-government people who think nothing of shooting and killing other Americans to get their way.
People who enjoy guns or wish to keep them around need to realize that some people find guns and their availability repugnant for legitimate reasons, and the government needs to balance those two perspectives.
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
I read it and I hear ya .. I'm speechless, as I frequently am when I hear someone's story of way too much pain and chaos .. but I want you to know I read it and I hear ya ..
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Sorry for your experiences....I can relate. While my father wasn't a drunk he was violent and used to beat me regularly. He was a "gun nut", owning some 200 firearms, when I was 7 years old he threatened to kill me with a .44 magmun pistol. At the time my life was so miserable I didn't give a shit if he pulled the trigger. I wonder why I have spent my entire life in psychatric care...Hum!!!! Know where you are coming from, some people just don't get it!
went through all that! :(
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
Crying on the inside... laughing on the outside...guns have fuched up more lives than people know. After I left home...ran away from home, was always waiting to hear he had finally killed my step mom, thankfully not. I lied... I am wrighting this through my tears...Oh well,such is life.
But you're here, your stepmom is here, I'm here, my mother is here, and we're all in one piece, ok well, sort of, but you get the idea, we made it. :)
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
We have some very different opinions on this issue, though, unfortunately, we share some similar experiences. Peace.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
*
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
deleted
When will government of the people, by the politicians, for the corporations perish from this Earth?
Not soon enough!
Here's my one and only experience with guns. I was in this little town called Texas (for real) in Queensland (no jokes), Australia, and the son of the family I was staying with and his best friend asked me if I wanted to go out on a roo-hunt. The mother was a little freaked and just said not to mention it to anyone. Anyway, we went out in the 4-wheel drive around the ranch and every conceivable animal was jumping/flying around. Then we went and got the gun. I didn't relish blowing the head off a little roo or wallaby, but they were competitors to the sheep on the farm. So we went out with the gun and the whole planet was deserted. Not an animal in sight where there had been a veritable zoo. So I did a little target practice, missing everything, and called it an experience. One bonus point....the best friend was a very cute Aussie cowboy.
The End.
with my older brother and uncle and cousin (so I could butch up).
It didn't work. I hated firing a rifle much less actually trying to kill something with it.
The thing that unnerved me most was the absent-mindedness and horse play of my uncle drinking with loaded guns while hunting.
Also had an ex boyfriend shot point blank by his uncle at 16 for being gay. After his grandmother beat the hell out of uncle she sent ex-boyfriend to CO to live with his estranged mother so he had to leave his brother and twin sister behind in TN.
I don't have an issue with my penis.
Guns just don't interest me.
Penises though....
;)
But seriously, that was messed up. It's still a sad world we live in.
I'm from a town those of you familiar with gangsta rap may have heard of, Compton CA. Years ago we had a drive-by across the street from my house that resulted in the death of a toddler and was a contributing factor in the assault weapons ban in my state.
Later in high school a guy I knew was hit at school by some local punks doing a drive-by, even though he was hit in the face (I saw the blood covering his face up close) he survives with a bit of scrapnel behind his eye.
My personal experience with firearms was with my grandfathers 22.and his 38. I knew where he kept them and sometimes pulled them out when my grandparents weren't around, I always checked to make sure they did not have any ammo in them. I am in the Army now and am a pretty ok shot, but I cannot stand the smell of gun powder.
I am one of those who does not believe the second amendment refers to an individual right to own firearms, I had heard that the term "keep and bear arms" was an 18th century term for a type of military service and the whole of the second amendment really does not say individual rights to me.
I was initially surprised that liberals held the opposite view of the second amendment but I realize now that ours is a diverse group and that is always a good thing.
I do mostly avoid these gun control debates now as they are pretty divisive.
When angry, count four, when very angry, swear.
-Mark Twain-
Now that I think about it, it's not my only experience with a gun. But the other story is a bit too personal to share on a public board. Needless to say, I'm not a fan of guns, but not a hater either.
Something tells me these guys cover themselves in mud and tries to sneak across the river. Only to realize the mud washes off and scampers back. It's a metaphor.
is intended to be a factual statement
to rise.
The arms manufacturers are comfy, though!
. . . scares the heck out of me.
If gun control were for everybody, I might be ok with it. But it never is. It's always about who gets to have them and who does not. Goldman Sachs gets carry permits or the equivalent; Joe Sixpack does not. A retired Chicago police officer in the suburbs gets to have one; a single mother in the projects does not.
The police have no legal duty to protect anyone (aside from 911 calls and other very limited circumstances). When things go bad, the police either disappear (the post-Rodney King verdict riots) or hide behind trees and squad car doors looking tough and doing nothing whatsoever(Columbine).
Sure, the cops save people every TV episode, but in reality, we're on our own.
I've never heard of any gun control proposal that even attempts to get rid of all of the guns - just proposals that limit gun ownership to those in power. And those in power seldom deserve such trust.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
In fact, police departments and municipal governments have been sued numerous times, all across this country, because the first responders, LEO, were too slow to prevent a violent crime. In every court case, the victims or family of victims have lost their cases -- in effect, local LEO are not obligated to protect the innocent from violent crime, only to investigate and gather forensic evidence to aid in the prosecution of the criminals.
Here in Virginia, a Korean student with a legal right to purchase a weapon (holding a Green Card) killed 39 students and teaching staff and a Resident Advisor. Just months earlier, the Virginia state legislature prohibited legal Concealed Carry License-holders from being armed on campus, in deference to the wishes of the majority of the state's colleges and universities. An armed CCL-holder on campus could have saved many lives, all while the campus police performed a Keystone Kops Chinese fire-drill and wasted hours and lives. An upperclassman, an ROTC cadet, or an adult Resident Advisor thusly armed might have been a hero.
People tend to dismiss the concept that the new USA government was an experiment -- an experiment that no one fully trusted without a Bill of Rights. That Bill of Rights included the Second Amendment not only to provide for armed volunteers forming state militias, but to help guard against the possible future tyranny of the (our) government.
There was an interesting video clip included with Michael Moore's "Fahrenheit 9-11". A young US Army captain in Iraq was telling the videographer that each home was permitted one full-auto AK-47 assault rifle, in keeping with Iraq's long tradition of armed volunteer militias, even under that dictator Saddam Hussein.
Switzerland's loosely knit Federal government has been protected from domestic strife and foreign invaders, for centuries, by armed militia members with all their equipment at home.
It is not as if precedents had not been set for our Founding Fathers to rely upon when crafting the US Constitution (and Bill of Rights).
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
In my hometown, the police cruisers were all emblazoned with the motto "To protect and serve", but given the rising murder rate in the county, it's difficult to detect any evidence of protection or service. I do see alot of arrests, incarcerations and prosecutions though.
Concealed weapons. What a novel idea. Then we can ALL feel like Son of Sam.
They don't have to abide by the state / municipality regulations regarding who, when, or how people may carry concealed weapons -- they're criminals. And it's not as if there aren't enough firearms already in circulation in the USA that if firearm sales were to be banned outright tomorrow, that there would not be a ready supply of weapons to steal from law-abiding citizens, from the police, from the military, or even smuggle them into the country the same way illegal drugs and illegal immigrants arrive here.
OTOH, law-abiding citizens that seek Concealed Carry Licenses for firearms must be 21 years of age or older, have no criminal record, pass a more or less rigorous background check including State Police and FBI, as well as take a course in firearms regulations, knowledge of local and state laws, knowledge of legal liability issues, and pass a firearms proficiency test. In other words, a law-abiding civilian with a CCL may well be just as proficient and trustworthy in their civic responsibilities regarding firearms as the Law Enforcement Officer or Fireman to whom you might be inclined to grant a "free pass" as a government employee.
I am a Liberal Progressive Independent who supports every one of the rights in the Bill of Rights, including the Second Amendment. It really chaps my backside to see supposed "liberals" or supposed "conservatives" that believe that the Constitution and Bill of Rights can be cherry-picked for favored rights like a meal at a buffet, while ignoring those rights that they don't particularly like.
Our Bill of Rights evolved from the Magna Carta and English common law. To deny one or more of our rights, enumerated or not, is to leave all of our rights at great risk. If you don't see that as an underlying basic truism, then you are neither a good student of history or of human nature, and of questionable USA citizenship skills.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
Comparing crime statistics for concealed carry licensees versus the general population is eye opening.
Florida for instance has 1,769,216 permit holders. In the time period between 1987 and today, only 167 licenses were revoked for crimes in involving guns.
Or Texas: http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/c...
Or any other state with concealed weapon licensing. There are no statistics to support any sort of "wild west" scenario, or a rash of people going berserk at the supermarket, or even a propensity towards violence. The argument against it is an emotional one, which doesn't jive with the reality-based platform that seems to be strived for in most other situations.
It boils down to either "republicans like guns" or "i am scared of guns."
I mean nobody here is going to take away your guns, big fella. It's really ok to talk about not liking what an amendment allows. That's covered in the First. And you know, I have read (don't recall where) Jefferson felt there should be a constitutional conference every 20 years or so, because he realised there was generational progress. He felt it was a living document, not rules written in stone.
but people in this "I got mine, you can go fuck off" country wouldn't want that now. And the Thugs would filibuster everything.
The 3rd amendment is a relic that no one knows until they look it up.
There were no guns in the 13th century; the second was written for a time when, if you were really great with a firearm, you could get two, maybe 3 shots off in a minute does not involve human rights whatsoever. And people were making their own ammo and living in a wilderness.
About the only things that belong in the bill of rights (note: IMHO) are rules dealing with human and civil rights.
Anyway let your ass chap away; I'm only exercising the first. Just remember, you getting all het up over people questioning the second is you questioning the first. You are saying we have no right to do so, because it's The bloody fucking Constitution, and it's teh sacred.
me-oww!
where did he say you shouldn't be allowed to talk about gun control? you seem to be getting bent out of shape at something that didn't actually occur.
that really doesn't occur, unless it's gwb and pals
Trash talking guns and gun users/believers isn't "cherry-picking" the constitution. It's trash talking guns and gun users/believers.
me-oww!
so he posted his opinion, you posted your opinion, and nowhere did he say you shouldn't be allowed to express your opinion. you pretty much made it up so you'd have something to be indignant about.
whatev.
He's welcome to his opinion. I'm just saying it's a hypocritical one. You are making up something about me that didn't actually occur. Projector.
Whatev.
[This is off topic territory. Knock it off-Sitemonitor]
me-oww!
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
... I thought it was about stepping back a few decades and making it legal to drink and drive at the same time. This is much worse.
...only outlaws will have guns. That's what they say, anyway. But at least when we see someone with a gun, we'd KNOW to run and hide.
you saw in the previous video are all walking around with guns, nursing their bruised egos (bruised in all the schoolyard fights they obviously lost as kids, due to their imaginary super-powers) decide to start shooting, or a car just backfires too close to them? These pinheads would start shooting in a heartbeat. Can you hide fast enough?
something that I don't understand. How can so many people claim to dislike guns while pushing the idea that "governments" should do this or that when the only tools that the "government" has are guns?
Last week Governor Jan Brewer signed into law a regulation allowing unrestricted concealed carry without a permit. No more classes to learn to responsibly handle their weapons, and under what circumstances. Now anyone can legally carry a concealed weapon anywhere except courtrooms, schools and a few other places. Except for the courtrooms, you can carry a weapon into schools as long as you have a permit. Only recently the legislature passed a law allowing guns in bars but anyone carrying a concealed weapon could not be served alcohol (how can you tell if they're carrying and refuse to serve them if the weapon is concealed?).
In addition, purchasers of guns made in Arizona do not have to get a background check, federal or state.
Knowing the kind of people who feel the need to carry a weapon on them, concealed or not, makes me far less likely to frequent any bar or restaurant (guns allowed there, too.) Now, when you are in a bar, you don't know if the person you're talking to is carrying; you only know they are drinking. I have had people who overheard me talking to a friend in a private conversation butt in and threaten me because they didn't like what I was saying. I have seen people beaten to death by a couple of troublemakers. Think how much easier and quicker it would have been if they'd been carrying guns, and think of the possible carnage to anyone else in the bar.
This state is fucking crazy!
I worked in bars for years. I've seen enough fights, drunks and louts to know I sure wouldn't want to go out and have a drink and relax knowing some uptight ahole who had a bad day at work or at home has a loaded weapon and is sitting next to me.
What next, all the bouncers have weapons?
"burden" of responsible gun ownership, I'm not sure I should believe a word of it. Mixing guns and booze is nothing but downright stupid and irresponsible but yet many are zealous about perserving that "right."
"The greatest tyranny is censoring information in order to be better able to control people." - Cristina Saralegui
In the early 80's just out of High School, I spent some time in Phoenix. I was in a club, and 2 dudes were prancing around open carrying....one had an elaborate shoulder rig, the other had a semi-auto pistol rig on his hip. Being that I am a pretty big guy, 6'3', and over 200, I haven't been intimidated much as an adult, and for a lot of years was somewhat of a bully and known as a fighter, due to the circumstances in my earlier child hood ,I didn't take shit from anybody, and nobody much crossed me...but it was pretty humbling to see assholes actually "strutting" around in such obvious ways.Feeling that booze and loaded weapons didn't forbode well I didn't spend a lot of time in this establishment. I noticed people gave these assholes a wide berth...It also struck me as funny that both of these characters were of rather deminuative size, so I think they were trying to make up for where mother nature shorted them. Strange place Arizona.
yeah OK... responsible gun owner here again. Getting rid of guns is a "Wyatt Earp Fantasy". Please focus on sucking your farts back in instead, it's just as futile, but less dangerous. The FACT that criminals will ALWAYS have access to WHATEVER the current killing technology is doesn't seem to stick in idealist's minds. (Wouldn't it be nice if we didn't need to lock our front doors either?) The excited levels of activity and apparent central orchestration of the of modern extremists is actually a reason to maybe consider keeping a gun in your wheat-powered fantasy home. I really think those ppl are some kind of insane. I also think they WANT some kind of legislative move to fuel their idiotic plans. So go ahead, close the loophole, it will change almost nothing and potentially increase the paranoid marching ranks of idiots.
insurection against our government there would be plenty of guns available, does that mean anything?
I'll say it clearly... As a race of beings we could stop making guns altogether. We would have plenty of guns floating around for what 200 more years? I'm just throwing that worthless number out there. Guns are here, and I'm sorry to say the only thing that will get rid of them is a cheaper and improved portable killing device.
...anyway, I don't forsee an insurrection in the near future. We'd miss too much reality television.
My main problem with my fellow libs about gun control is that they often sound to me like extreme right wingers talking about "gays causing aids", or "minorities being prone to crime". It's a wholly inappropriate correlation. A+B = (A+B)... not nec "C".
A further Truth: A genuinely deranged person who is self-actualized will show ingenuity in achieving a goal, regardless of the validity of the goal.
you've missed how few gun fatalities there are in England. And you have seemed to have missed the flaw in your reasoning. Oh, sure, that kid who's got the 38 special that he bought at a gun show, without any record check to rob the 7-11 he's a master criminal, who could have gotten that gun from his other master criminal contact in the Mafia, right? You're an idiot.
dress in military fatigues?
I'm wearing a tasteful grey flannel pajama bottom with yesterdays always fashionable navy-blue three quarter sleeved ring-tee.
That's how I spell craaazaayyy!
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honestly most of the sane gun rights people make fun of tacticool mall ninjas as much as you guys do. they are sort of an embarrassment.
you're only sort of embarassed by these whackaloons.
but I have no problem with RESPONSIBLE people owning them. I have always felt that if you truly have a problem with someone and words won't satisfy, use the fists and feet that God gave you.
Unfortunately, pretty much anyone can gain access to a firearm. Legally or not. I swear, it feels like today the teenagers are packing more than the adults. They can't read or write but they can fire a gun.
I won't live to see an age where people will no longer need guns. But I hope that time does come.
NOBODY 2012
...look at the guy speaking, with a pot belly and cane. Get real.
I doubt he has he energy to get out of his Lay-Z-Boy to start a revolution. In fact, I'd bet on it. He's not going to give up the comfort of his pampered life for a jail cell. Most of these idiots will back down when push comes to shove, or let the younger guys do the fighting for them (just like the establishment).
And rather than take these threats and boasts as credible, the media asking the questions should do just that, ask the old fart if he has trouble bending over to put his socks on in the morning.
What's he going to do if the local gun store runs out of ammo, fight with a survival knife? These people are clowns.
In Scotland and Japan,the only two countries that i know of for sure,most murders are commited with knifes.
....the fools do not realize,a population that can ,..... not paticipate .............in the 'economy'...,can not keep it viable!..........."we are listening,.......and we're not blind.,......this is your life....this is your time."
'stabby' is the way to go in the UK
me-oww!
The government this, the government that.. Seen it before, come back when you can identify the real problem; you need a hospital stay and some continuous medication..
the health care bill, of course.
how big the crowd was at the "open carry" Reports said it was around 75.
Wyatt never openly carried a gun in town; it was kept in his coat pocket. People of the time only a few carried a gun in a holster on their hips while on the range while most had them in their pants belt. In town those guns were put away or, in the least, kept out of sight.
Movie Fantisy doesn't equal reality.
Donaldd
Sorry, Cliff Schecter, but It is intellectually dishonest to portray the “gun show loophole” as the causal affect of the Virginia Tech massacre. Cho did not purchase his firearm at a gun show -- he legally purchased it from a legitimate Roanoke Valley gun shop. Cho passed the Virginia State Police instant background check only because his previous irrational mental health issues while at VPI were never properly reported to Law Enforcement as required by law. If the Virginia Tech Health Clinic had followed due diligence procedures and filed their report, the State Police background check would have picked up on it. VPI officials in conjunction with campus and Blacksburg police then failed to react in a timely manner to order the campus into lockdown. Because of these factors, many many of the victims’ surviving families are in the process of suing Virginia Tech for damages.
I lived in Roanoke, Virginia for 3 years while all of this tragedy played out in the local newspaper on a daily ongoing basis. It was very hard to take -- anyone there in the community suffered a certain amount of PTSD in empathy with the grieving families and the university.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
-- John F. Kennedy
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