BillO tries to toss Washington governor on his culture-war Christmas bonfire
What was the most important story in the news yesterday? According to Bill O'Reilly, it's the fact that an atheist group was permitted to erect a holiday display alongside a Nativity scene at the state Capitol in Washington state.
His entire opening segment on The O'Reilly Factor yesterday was devoted to the subject, replete with a chryon featuring Democratic Gov. Christine Gregoire's phone number, and featuring one of Papa Bear's patented "Talking Points Memo" rants, claiming Gregoire had "embarrassed Washington state and the nation."
He had on local blogger David Goldstein, who opened by noting pointedly that Gregoire was busy meeting with President-elect Obama to work on an economic-recovery plan "instead of worrying herself over this annual tempest in a teapot, which is what this is."
What's odd about O'Reilly's rant is that the state did not move to prohibit any kind of displays. The problem for O'Reilly is that it was too inclusive: the state essentially makes the space available for any group that wants to use it for a holiday display. (See the explanation here.)
In other words, O'Reilly is less interested in defending Christmas here in this crazy-ass liberal state (as O'Reilly depicts us) than he is in denying atheists their free-speech rights.
Goldstein smacked O'Reilly's whole premise by pointing this out:
Any religious organization that wants to put up a religious display gets to put one up. This is the problem of having religious displays on public property. It's a free-speech issue in the end. Once you allow one group to do it, then all groups get to do it. And in fact, I'm surprised that there's only three this year.
I think O'Reilly is starting to lose it, now that the recent elections have delivered a clear repudiation to just about everything he stands for, particularly that monumental waste of time and energy known as the Culture War. Unfortunately for him, he's built his whole career out of stoking the flames of that dimming fire.
So of course he has to do his damnedest to keep that faint little spark glowing. That seems to take a lot of huffing and puffing.
Wingnuts only believe in free speech if they agree with you.
Tell that to the Prop. 8 supporters in California
If Prop 8 supporters want respect for their claims, they can earn it like everyone else.
Ideas, concepts, conjectures, hypotheses and theories earn respect through a meritocracy. So far, Prop 8 supporters haven't earned any merit and are whining that popularity isn't good enough to give them a free pass.
For example, I have yet to see one religious supporter of Prop 8 show evidence for the existence of a human soul.
I have yet to see one person against Prop 8 show evidence that a human soul does not exist.
Prop 8 supporters do need to earn "merit" for what they have believed for centuries. I suggest you examine your "claim" a little closer and decide if it means so much to you, how about moving to, lets say a mid-eastern country and argue it out with them. See how far you get and discover how much you really have living in the U.S.
I don't understand what you mean.
Culture war sounds too elitist, like it's between Chamber Music devotees and NASCAR fans.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I hear Jeff Gordan is quite the celloist.
Whenever someone refers to America as being a christian nation I always ask why? Their response is always "well look at our history."
The perfect response is, "I wouldn't bring up the history of christian America, because it was Christians that committed genocide on the Natives, enslaved Africans, marginalized women, the Irish, Hispanics and Asians and fought tooth and nail against organized labor."
... bought into the whole 'John Chinaman is coming to take your jobs, your women, and teach their heathen ways to your children. Long before Japanese-Americans were rounded up and tossed into camps, America passed the Chinese Exclusion Act. (Which is an indirect reason why my maternal grandfather died in China - he was unable to enter the country legally to join my grandmother, who had been born here.)
The rhetoric has not changed. The only difference between Dennis Kearney and Lou Dobbs is that Dobbs wears better suits.
Even before the Chinese there was marked prejudice against the Roman Catholic Irish, of which billo is a decendent.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I mentioned the Irish.
Not to mention, it was the puritan Christians that banned Christmas in America for about 9 years because of the holiday's pagan roots.
This is something that idiots like Bill O'Reilly simply refuse to acknowledge.
I didn't know there were still puritan Christians around? How many years ago did they ban Christmas? Are they doing it now?
You need to go pretty far back in history in order to belittle religion, don't you?
Are you so threatened by a religion that the contitution of this great country is based on it in order to do what??? Make it easier for the Muslims to come in and take over.
Just to what, Get married....?? How stupid and selfish is that?
I think you are being really ignorant when you bring up ancient history trying to belittle a religion that has been around for longer then you will ever be.
I am positive I can show negitive history for anything that has been developing for thousands of years, so get off that horse and look at the religion that is is just dying to take over this country and tell me how the athesists are going to fight it all by themselves?
I seem to recall seeing a poll somewhere, that said Atheists were the least trustworthy members of American society. Trusted less than Muslims, even, because "at least they believe in SOME sort of god".
I dunno. I can't recall the last time a bunch of atheists had themselves a witch burning or an inquisition.
A prominent Pagan, I think the Arch-Druid Isaac Bonewitz once said, "If one god is better than the many gods, wouldn't no gods be the most advanced?"
Thought y'all might like to see what I look like:
http://www.hellofelix.com/images/primates/tho...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
w got caught in another photo op?
As an atheist, I would actually not have as much of a problem if polytheistic religions became the norm in society and government simply because polytheists inherently do not have that whole "One true path to the one true god and all others are evil by default" shtick that has caused pretty much ALL the religious problems in human society in the past 2000 years.
I was browsing in the Seattle Public Library the other day and I saw a book called "Explaining Atheism" or something like that. What could possibly need less explanation than atheism? If you didn't teach children to be Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Buddist, Hindu, Shinto, etc. everyone would be atheist by default. Religious dogma is what needs explaining not atheism.
There's still pantheism, polytheism, and animism.
Religion seems to be hard-wired into our neurocognitive systems, specifically located around the hippocampus area in the "lizard" brain, that seeks to be the alpha figure or to seek out and follow one. And what could be more of an alpha figure than some kind of God?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Religion uses what is hardwired into our brains. Not that religion IS hardwired into our brains. There's a big difference.
What is hardwired into our brain is the recognition that there is some form of power greater than us. Whether we call that God, Yahweh, Allah, Great Spirit, The Universe, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, or whatever, it's all the same thing.
I call him Bob.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http:/...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Let me put on my grade 4 critical thinking cap here for a second...ok there....
So where has this been proven that our brains are hardwired to believe in a higher being?
Statements like these deserve at least one or two scientific citations to be backed by before I can give them the slightest credibility.
As for Bill...the man is so insecure. If his religion or "holiday" can't stand criticism or ideological competition then it is most likely based on a weak belief system. He should just "shut up" lol
"So where has this been proven that our brains are hardwired to believe in a higher being?"
Since Dr. Dean Hamer's work (as featured in Time magazine, and in his 2004 book "The God Gene") Not conclusive, granted. But evidential.
"the god gene" is ridiculous tripe...really
"The God Gene might have been a fascinating, enlightening book if Hamer had written it 10 years from now-after his link between VMAT2 and self-transcendence had been confirmed by others and after he had seriously tested its importance to our species. Instead the book we have today would be better titled: A Gene That Accounts for Less Than One Percent of the Variance Found in Scores on Psychological Questionnaires Designed to Measure a Factor Called Self-Transcendence, Which Can Signify Everything from Belonging to the Green Party to Believing in ESP, According to One Unpublished, Unreplicated Study."
http://carlzimmer.com/articles/2004.php?subac...
This only takes a grade 3 thinking cap.
Are you referring to the same "weak belief system" that has been around for how many thousands of years????
Since Christians are basically people that make an effort to develope their "Morale values" they aren't always the first ones to jump on the defensive band wagon unless they really have to. If they did all get on board, you might see that the "weak belief system" you referred to is in fact, WAAAYYYY bigger then you and all the 600 athesists in Washington state
ever thought possible.
In regards to religion, superstition, supernaturalism, and other things, what's hardcoded into our brains is (among other things too)...
1) believing what your parents and authority figures tell you (this is a survival strategy).
2) ingroup outgroup social dynamics: tit for tat social strategy within the group, kinship, reciprocity. xenophobic towards the outgroup.
3) assigning agency and anthropomorphizing (often when inappropriate...you yell at your car or computer...or the tv? or spirit of the tree or the ju-ju on the hill etc)
4) finding patterns (often where none exist...seeing faces on Mars)
I think it's really about trying to understand the world around you. That's where religion comes from. Early man didn't know what made the sun rise and set or what stars were etc, etc so he made stuff up or guessed and that got passed along from generation to generation. The things you list are all important factors too.
Which is why I think of a George Carlin quote from one of his stand-up specials - "I'm fucking sick of these church people".
I'm an Atheist and I try my hardest to be a decent human being. Being moral has nothing to do with religion. Some of the biggest murderers, thieves, and hypocrites claim to hear a higher power speak to them.
I remember telling a bible-thumper I used to work with that I thought atheists were some of the most more people around. You should've seen her jaw drop. To her atheists couldn't be moral because they didn't believe in god. They were at best amoral. I explained to her that they behaved as well or better than religious people out of their own sense of right and wrong and were therefore more moral than religious types who do good in hopes of getting into heaven or out of fear of going to hell. I don't think it made much of an impact though.
MaudeLebowski stated:
Some of the biggest murderers, thieves, and hypocrites claim to hear a higher power speak to them.
==================
That would be the devil my friend.
At least Christians have a book to learn morality from if they choose to.
Atheist's have to grovel around in the main stream media...
I can't remember a bunch of atheists supporting communities or helping out in other countries.
You people seem to think that christians have done nothing good in this world when athesits have done absolutly nothing.
Well, "ATHESISTS" why don't you put your hard earned money and time where you mouths are and then we will talk.
They just don't get up on a pedestal and praise themselve silly about it.
I would rather trust someone who is good because he wants to be than someone who is good because he shits his pants about being punished after he's dead. If you need someone to tell you that killing, violence, lying, greed and all those other traits exhibited by "good" churchgoing people are wrong, you're the sociopath.
Conservative evangelicals deny the concept of doing good works, but maintain that faith alone is enough. Non-conservative Christians mostly do good works out of fear. Few do it out of genuine impulses. And that goes for the horse you rode in on.
Ask the guy a question and then repeatedly interrupt him because he won't kiss your wrinkled, liver spotted ass. Then equate this imaginary "War on Christmas" with the MLK holiday to buttress your bullshit argument adding a nice little touch of race baiting. What a pussy.
Exactly. Free will and moral choice guide our actions.
Some people just have too much time on their hands. GET A LIFE PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!! For Fucks sakes do charity work or something meaningful.
OMG!! Inclusion and tolerance!! The world is coming to an end!
No problem for Blowhard Bill. He's got more hot air than he knows what to do with.
Maybe billoreally should be harnessed for wind power.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Bad breath power.
Whatver he says stinks.
I'm so glad nobody has ever fooled you.
Bill O'Reilly is a decent man thast tries hard to protect what is valuable to many people.
That would be decency, morality and freedom.
I'm glad he has all that hot air, without it, people like you might just get to him.
But you don't.
first amendment?
and leave it to fox to put on a wimpy jewish blogger
every jew in this country understands that the war on xmas is all about jew hate
Really, there is a special hate and discrimination for atheists in the US that is at least worse that the antisemitism... (at least a VP candidate can openly state they are Jewish - even if Lieberman is a schmuck)
But let's agree that the Right wing has more than enough hate to spread around.
What they do not understand is that it the secularization of Xmas is great! I love the idea of peace on earth and goodwill to others -- it just takes a nativity scene to screw it up...
Natavist nativity scenes.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You must be one of those kind and generous and loving Athesits everyone is talking about.
I bet you are first in line to protect all those radical Muslims.
Bill only cares about making good controversial television. Better for C&L to ignore this guy. He laughs all the way to the bank. Bill only takes enjoyment out of pushing peoples buttons.
in any kind of intelligence contest, in any kind of humanitarian match up.
BTW, WTF is billo doing, sticking his nose in our business? that Sexual Harrasturbator doesn't live in my state.
Nosey arsehole.
me-oww!
MsK, You live here too? I just knew Washington State is the right place to be.
-Joe, Tulalip Bay
Speaking of Gregoire.
Isn't she the Governor that ran in the last election on the fact that her budget was just fine in Washinton only to find out what her competitor, Rossi was trying to tell everyone that she really has a 4 billion dollar budget deficit.
She admitted the truth after the election.
LOL..Way to go Democrats.
just more right wing desperation. We'll be seeing a lot of that over the next 8 years.
personally i can't listen to this guy. he refuses to allow the opposition voice their case/opinion. he's so
afraid of being proven wrong.
Isn't that a mainstream media trick of the trade?
Matthews invented that..didn't he?
Am I the only one who finds this whole "War on Christmas" debate hilarious? The fact that is Bill O's "top story" speaks volumes about his credibility as a journalist.
Two words: Inside Edition.
Nothing but schlock tabloid sensationalism. F--k it, we'll do it live.
The fact that the war on christmas is in fact O'Reilly's top story, does speak volumes for the voices of 75% of Americans.
What does that have to do with his credibility?
I'd say that you bothered to say what you just did shows a real lack of credibility.
Let Christmas be an example of what happens to religion when government gets it's hands on it. IMO if Christians want to "keep their Christ in CHRISTmas!" then they should be demanding that the government stop endorsing Christmas at all.
As far as Town Hall and Court displays. The solution is simple. Keep all that crap out of those places to begin with. But of course, it's the cultural right who want to use the machinery of the state to pimp for them while at the same time denying others to do the same. Hypocrites, through and through.
(I won't even go into Christmas's pagan and secular origins).
The Bible does not say 'December 25' anywhere. (Though there was one evangelical homeschooled kid on another forum who proudly declared that Christ was born on December 25 in the Year 0.)
It does say that shepherds were out tending their flock, so it's doubtful that it was winter.
And there are two astronomical possibilities for the Christmas Star, conjunctions in 6 and 3 BCE, which most planetariums will talk about during the Christmas season.
But what drives me nuts is that my faith has never been dependent on a bunch of figurines trotted out for several weeks in the middle of Winter. I don't insist that others believe as I do, or feel the need to punish/correct those who don't. (And some of the pagan solstice celebrations I've been to have been every bit as warm and welcoming as a traditional Christian observance.)
December 25 was December 21 under the previous calendar. It's sacred to many solar gods. The Church in Rome took it from the Mithraic Dies Natalis Solis Invictus. These solar gods generally are ritually slain in the spring and are reborn.
Some scholars say if the activity of the shepherds are any indication Jesus was born in the spring. That is, if he ever existed.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I hope you are ignoring Chrismas and not participating in the gift giving etc.
If you are then you are what is called a hypocrite.
You may not have seen this story, but the public transport in the UK frequently features adverts admonishing the passengers that God is there, he loves them, they'll go to hell if they don't believe, etc.. You know, the usual. Sponsored by some religious group or other.
Recently, an atheist group got together, and paid for adverts which said "There's probably no God. Try to enjoy your life anyway" or something to that effect.
Is this atheist holiday display a US equivalent of the Bus story?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/lo...
This particular BillO segent is different but here in the US and Washington D.C. Humanist Group bought ad space on D.C. public buses. It says something like, "Why believe in God? Just be good for goodness' sake." Of course the usual crowd is OuTRaGeD(tm). "How dare they! *gasp*"
From the 'See the explanation here' link
"...The Olympian newspaper recently decried the competing displays as "an out-of-control struggle for religious superiority..."
Isn't that the raison d'être of religion? The establishing of the superiority of one's own god in comparison to all other gods? A PR firm for a belief or tenet. No one stays in a religion to once they realise "Your God IS better than mine!"
I mean, it sounds like a perfect microcosm OF our 'My God Can Beat Up Your god' culture, at its most -- um -- perfect.
me-oww!
The problem with religion is belief, as in knowing for sure. I don't believe in an afterlife, I HOPE there is one, but I don't have the proof to believe it. I believe in physics. I hope there is something spiritual about our existence, but to be honest with myself, I can't BELIEVE (know) there is. The hard science isn't there, yet.
Anyway, I like hope better: it keeps me more open minded and not stuck in a rigid dogma.
Religion is an outgrowth of man's search to understand the world around him. Early man couldn't explain the rain and the wind in terms of evaporation/precipitation or differences in air pressure, so it followed that there was an agency responsible. It had to be powerful, so as to escape our notice as well as do those things we attributed to them.
I don't think the question of superiority came about until man began to realize that controlling the definition of god (or the gods) allowed transference of power in a symbolic sense. This is why we're discouraged from questioning the Falwells and Robertsons and Dobsons - because if we did, they'd be exposed as hypocrites and tyrants, chock full of festering resentments and petty hatreds.
We are nonetheless confronted with some astoundingly crappy reasoning when it comes to 'my God can beat up your God' - that is, God will take a side when it comes to armies smiting one another, but when it comes to accidental deaths and other tragedies in life, well, we have to comfort ourselves with the trite explanation that 'God has a plan' or 'God decided he wanted Grandma back'.
As to whether God can be questioned or not, why not? Are we really to believe that God (I'm speaking from the Christian perspective as I was raised as a Catholic) gave us free will, but we're not allowed to choose NOT to believe, or to believe differently? That God gave us the capacity to reason, but we must become servile drones when it comes to questions of faith, accepting without question the words of those who claim to be specially blessed or possessed of special insight?
The Christian God, as we've seen, is no fan of the status quo. In the Biblical past, he sent prophets who were scorned, denounced, ignored, even tortured and killed. His own Son, Christ Jesus, was not part of the established community of religious leaders or teachers, and ultimately murdered as a political nuisance. (Or, perhaps it's just another bit borrowed from pagan beliefs, a reinterpretation of Odin hanging upon Yggdrasil.)
Nor did Christ pick a bunch of self-righteous and self-promoting rich white guys to work with him. He chose fishermen, tax collectors, and even kept company with a prostitute (or pagan high priestess, depending on your sources). He didn't come sailing into Jerusalem in a limousine and establish a mega-church; he destroyed the marketplace in the temple square and rode into town on a donkey.
Yggdrasil was very likely the basis for the Christmas tree, since Prince Albert came from Germany and introduced them to Britain and to here, but there's also the basis of the Biblical asherim, which the Bible forbids.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
someone say, "I think O'Reilly is starting to lose it".
O'Reilly "lost it" a long time ago. He's a nut. He's not going to change.
What do we expect to happen? He's going to have a breakdown and be
hauled away in a straightjacket, and a few months later admit that he was wrong?
That won't happen. Like Hannity and Glenn Beck, they are all nuts and
have already "lost it".
I can listen to these assholes for two minutes and know that a person who has never walked his talk is speaking.
Lost it according to who....YOU!!! LOL
Sometimes they comment on our nice xmas tree.
Then they get steamed when I point out that my "Secularch" has no religious items on it.
For cryin' out loud.
as our annual pagan fertility symbol.
My mother in law used to get her panties all in a twist over that, which was doubleplusgood.
that usually elections are over by then, and the people's memories are so short that they need to be reminded of their outrages every year or so...
are, as they claim to be, first and foremost performers.
Whose 'performer' personae have utterly subsumed them.
They've become the masque they bore.
The proof is that none of them could EVER successfully escape, to transcend, the personnae they inhabit. They're 'type-cast' in the extreme. Big Pharma's brief, humiliating foray into the football commentariat proves that.
I think it's actually a good thing that Murdoch's got 'em all in the same building. If I was any of 'em, I'd make sure I always had a way out, literally and figuratively...
One exception, BillO touts himself as a journalist.
The venom BillO uses when addressing people he disagrees with. Note did not say people who disagree with him, He takes offense if anyone holds an opinion opposing his.
When he "spoke" at the blogger he just about spit out the word "Liberal blogger" like it would leave a foul taste in his mouth!
Boot the punks off the public airwaves. Then make cable public and boot them from there as well!
and who is Pelosi, Reid, Obama, Jefferson, Rangel, and Frank?
SAINTS..... They are all in one building.
kudos to Goldstein for calling it the "ANNUAL" tempest in a teapot. because thats what it is. its just his annual ratings boost.
a bunch of bigot minority christians cheer him on and plug in to his show... a bunch of annoyed "regulars" write well-penned and stern letters denouncing him and he takes it upon himself to cherry pick the easiest ones to retort to... and when the cameras stop rolling, he goes upstairs to the FOX bigshots and says "SEE! I'm still important! now gimme my annual bonus and sign me up for another year!"
every year, the week after Thanksgiving... businesses hang up wreaths, stores turn on their canned Xmas elevator muzak, mass-produced crap goes on sale, and BillO warns us that liberals want to take all of that away and are very close to realizing their goal. its just one of the formulaic, non-sentimental traditions Americans deal with this time of year.
You forgot:
Crushed Walmart Temps.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.thingsyouneverknewexisted.com/prod...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Take heart. It is well documented how much Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes despise O'Reilly. He is kept around due to ratings. As his audience (65+) begins to diminish and the ratings inevitably drop, watch how quickly he is cast into the void.
LOL...Where did you learn this...Did the mainstream, in the tank for Democrats tell you???
LOL, LOL.....
Ask CNN about O'Reilly's ratings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2vgcWwH9LU&fe...
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20081203/OPI...
Everett Herald opinion page today. "There are real religion-in-government issues out there; let's be reasonable -- this isn't one of them. "
Aside from being a bully, sexual predator and just a grade-A moron, BillO also understands his audience. If he can feed them enough thinly veiled racism, anti-Semitism ( remember , his followers like Jews only as tools for the Apocolypse, they are all going to Hell anyway, according to their warped beliefs), and anti-intellectualism then they are happy. BillO may be a jerk and an idiot, but even his boss, that despises him by the way, knows he is a cash cow.
Shouldn't that be cash bull, or is there something I need to know about billo?
Usually when you milk a bull, it's not milk you get.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
You can sell the product to Iran.
To milk a bull does it help to have them look at pictures of cows dressed only in leather?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
They're already horny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0oALRL7uyY
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
er, aren't cows already dressed on in leather? Otherwise, that's twisted.
It's otherwise.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Tell that to Woody Harrelson :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DsN36mz_PA
Bigger "cash cows" would be Matthews and Olbermann.
The only "war on Xmas" that is happening nowadays is the war that forces everyone into this orgy of greed and consumerism. What are we teaching our children nowadays other than to expect hordes of gifts and presents under the tree? The whole thing makes me ill. I'll stick to celebrating Solstice thanks.
WE'LL DO IT LIVE!!!
Where's my iced tea, M-F'er?!!
Before enlightenment - chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment - chop wood, carry water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pfilR67QAIE
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Is it any wonder that even Murdoch and Ailes hate this shmuck?
I wonder when someone is going to claim that they had seen Jesus in a splatter on a porno theatre seat?
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
So that's what spiritual rapture is!
I know this makes me feel real spiritual
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHPikUPlRD8
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
What would you rather have in this secular nation,
a nativity scene with a Christmas tree and the athiest "holiday" signage or would you prefer freedom of speech and religion in this country? My guess is that even you, mein Bill O'Rülly, would rather have the freedoms than either of the little iconic displays, right? Well, if that is indeed the case, then you shouldn't have a problem with either of the displays. Correct? Okay. Then shut the hell up or treat them equally!
Make no motto of love that worships war
still showing up on Faux? Please don't legitimize them. They are history and a bad one at that. Just don't respond to them no matter how many names they call us. We had to for eight years, here's our chance to shove them down the shitter where they belong, billo first and without any toilet paper.
Billo is just another frothingly insane Christian fascist who hates the rights, freedoms, and liberties that we supposedly hold dear in our nation. When non-cultists acquire equal rights, these hate filled Christian fascists get on their hind legs and bray their hate like a busted shitpipe.
billo just has a slight lisp.
He's saying he likes whores on Christmas.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Billo's tiny head would explode if he ever went to Olympia, WA. It is not only the state capital, it is the home of Evergreen State College, the most liberal, avant-guarde school on the west coast. Walking around town for 15 minutes would send him screaming back to Long Island. But if you go there, be sure to stop @ Orca Books - great independent bookstore.
You know whats funny? I don't care about Bill O'Crybaby
Know what else is funny? Something I read in the article posted, and I quote:
"Dan Barker, co-president of the Wisconsin-based Freedom From Religion Foundation, Inc., talks Monday about the sign his organization helped place near a Christian nativity scene at the Capitol in Olympia during the holiday season. The sign promotes the observance of the winter solstice and is critical of religious beliefs."
That last sentence is a contradiction if I have ever read one. How can you promote the observance of the winter solstice, which is a religious tradition in "pagan" cultures, yet be critical of religious beliefs? These people have a case of the st00pid
Zilam, IMO it's you who has a case of teh st00pid.
Winter Solstice, as was said, is real event which marks when the Sun will rise to it's lowest point in the sky. This is basic astronomy and has absolutely zero to do with religion. People have historically celebrated this time of year because it means that the Sun will, instead of getting lower and lower, will get higher and higher in the sky. And unlike the Christian God, the Sun actually matters.
I could prove to you that my faith is Truth, based on history. Cold hard facts, right? Doesn't mean that my beliefs aren't any less a religious aspect. Just because the solstice has a scientific backing to it, it still has a religious backing to it as well. If we are not going to promote Christ, despite the proof we have of Him, then how can we promote any other tradition that has both a religious and fact based feel to it? It is still a religious tradition to some people. The government therefore should have no role promoting the celebration of it.
I don't want town halls or courts of congress or any part of government endorsing anything even with respect to religion at all. Note my choice of word, "respect". Go read the First Amendment.
Surely you realize that these signs going up that are against religion or pro-solstice are in "protest" of the government putting up religious material in the first place. The poiont being that if it's ok to do the Christian religious thing then you have got to allow for other groups to do their thing. The point is to show that town halls, public schools, courts, etc should not be a forum for people's religion (or irreligion).
You can do that because Winter Solstice is not innately religious. It's a calendar marker. It marks the change of seasons. One is the shortest day of the year, the other the longest. Some religions may celebrate it, but it is a DAY, an actual calendar day. There is also a Summer Solstice. Some religions celebrate Sundays, so if I go out to eat every Sunday to celebrate my one day off from work, is that religious? What about full moons, some religions celebrate those, so if I like them, does that make me religious? It's just a day for celebration. We have annual parades for it in which people from all religions and atheists come to celebrate the Solstice. Sorry, not a contradiction. ...also, "pagan" is just a retarded word that means non-Christian. Technically, Muslims and Jews would be pagans. It just means someone of a different cult than the Christian one. So, know what you're talking about before you call someone stupid and reprimand them for being correct. THAT is a contradiction.
Also, Bill-o needs to do research every once in a while. Wisconsin has one at its state building, too. It's not just Washington (and they’ve been doing this for years; it’s not new)...dumbass.
The Summer Solstices around June 21 (Litha), the Vernal Equinox March 21 (Oestre), the Autumnal Equinox September 21 (Mabon), Imbolg February 2, Lammas (August ), Samhain the night of Oct 31, and Yule December 21.
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I celebrate December 16-19, the birthdays of Billy Gibbons and Keith Richards. Looking back on my twice per week churchgoing for 18 years, I got much more info, pleasure, and comfort from ZZ Top and Stones records than I did religion. Hey, you can't always get what you want. No shame in wearing cheap sunglasses. I don't remember when I learned their was no Santa, but I remember when my sister had to fess-up to her very sharp 7 year-old. "Well, what else about Christmans have you been lying to me about?" Touche.
I've seen some stuff, man. And some thangs...
Personally, New
Wed, 12/03/2008 - 12:42 — LockeNessMonster
I celebrate December 16-19, the birthdays of Billy Gibbons and Keith Richards. Looking back on my twice per week churchgoing for 18 years, I got much more info, pleasure, and comfort from ZZ Top and Stones records than I did religion. Hey, you can't always get what you want.
Doesn't that mean sixteen years then?
And as for you can't always get what you want:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpjXyEX2Zec
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
These are the moments I'm proud to live in Seattle.
First time watching Anne Bremner. She's an attorney?
Hmmmm.
Yay for Seattle! :-) So glad I left Ohio.
It's so nice to leave the 12th century (OH). This sign is so refreshing to see! Suck it down, x-ians.
Bigot.
"faggot" and I didn't start it, the "christians" did
Ba ha ha!
If we could just get that church on Broadway to stop blasting Christmas music every single damned hour of the day; and now they've started playing snippets of them every half-hour in between! I don't care if they do have a giant rainbow flag on the side, it's still religious music that I have to hear all day every day. They just finished "Christ Our Lord", again. Heck, if it were Bon Jovi, I still be frustrated at this point. It's just annoying.
I like all the Xmas crap, it's the X-ians I can do without. I also like XXX and XOXOXO and ho-ho-ho!
Who you callin' a ho, chump!
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
I'm so tired of Bill O'Reilly and his hate speech. I'm just hoping that Murdoch gets tired of making money at the expense of truth, and fires that asshole.
I am celebrating the festivus for the restuvus...
I have my aluminum pole, and of course no tinsel....
Billo and his ilk are driven by a hatred of non Christians- That is why they want a nativity scene but oppose any scenes from a different religion..
The christmas wreath, christmas tree and easter eggs have nada to do with Jesus- weren't they things Christians simply stole from earlier religions?
Solstice probable, calibrating the returning of the light. And coca cola.
Bite my shiny metal ass.
http://www.startalkradio.net/
I don't give a toss.
Less appealing than vomit.
Sorry BillO, Washington State believes in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and oh yes, we are liberal and tolerant. This is a beautiful state with beautiful people who are not afraid of someone who doesn't share their religion or beliefs or race or color or zodiac sign. This isn't a Christian nation; this is a nation of people who are free to choose what if anything they want to believe in. I'm one of those atheists, but I won't try to "convert" you if you don't try to convert me.
You've never lived in Yakima, I take it.
Where do you think all those Rossi votes came from?
I wonder....
Does Andrea Makaris say "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays"
/BillO is a SEXUAL PREDATOR.
Another 100 blog posts wasted on this bastard.
Politics is for the present, but an equation is for eternity. Albert Einstein
Washington state is lucky to have Chris Gregoire for our governor!
I absolutely worship my own johnson. Seriously. Does that mean I can put up a shrine or something to it in Washington? It wouldn't be dirty or anything. It's just my own personal religion: my johnson.
By the way, Bill O'Reilly touched me where my bathing suit covers.
FUCK IT, WE'LL DO IT LIVE!
As I've said last year, a putz is Yiddish for penis, and Amish for a creche.
So this year I'm gonna put out a lit-up putz this year.
Take that Home Owners Association!!!
Diabolus est Deus Inversus
Didn't she look like Nicole Kidman's older sister?
Other than that, it is just BO's BS.
I am a Jew, and every single one of my ancestors was Jewish. And it does not bother me even a little bit when people call those beautiful lit up, bejeweled trees, Christmas trees.. I don't feel threatened. I don't feel discriminated against. That's what they are: Christmas trees.
It doesn't bother me a bit when people say, 'Merry Christmas' to me. I don't think they are slighting me or getting ready to put me in a ghetto. In fact, I kind of like it It shows that we are all brothers and sisters celebrating this happy time of year. It doesn't bother me at all that there is a manger scene on display at a key intersection near my beach house in Malibu . If people want a crèche, it's just as fine with me as is the Menorah a few hundred yards away.
I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period. I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat.
Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him? I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too. But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to.
In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking.
Billy Graham's daughter was interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her 'How could God let something like this happen?' (regarding Katrina) Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'
In light of recent events... terrorists attack, school shootings, etc. I think it started when Madeleine Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body found a few years ago) complained she didn't want prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then someone said you better not read the Bible in school. The Bible says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said OK.
Then D r. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem ( D r Spock's son committed suicide). We said an expert should know what he's talking about. And we said OK.
Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves.
Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with 'WE REAP WHAT WE SOW.'
Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says. Funny how you can send 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing. Funny how lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene articles pass freely through cyberspace, but public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
Are you laughing yet?
Funny how when you forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they will think of you for sending it.
Funny how we can be more worried about what other people think of us than what God thinks of us.
Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it... no one will know you did. But, if you discard this thought process, don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in.
My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,
let me reply to some of the statements you made. If you aren't going to read them here, don't worry, I'm e-mailing this to you.
"I don't like getting pushed around for being a Jew, and I don't think Christians like getting pushed around for being Christians. I think people who believe in God are sick and tired of getting pushed around, period."
How terrible for you. Even though being religious is now an unwritten requirement for public office, and atheists are distrusted more than muslims, you feel pushed around. Face it, you and every other religious person that feels pushed around in this country suffers from a martyr complex. There's an actual debate about religion nowadays and so you see it as persecution. Cry me a river.
"I have no idea where the concept came from that America is an explicitly atheist country. I can't find it in the Constitution and I don't like it being shoved down my throat."
It's not explicitly atheist, it's explicitly secular. Behold the first amendment:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"
Which means the government of this country can neither condone nor deny religious practices. The phrase "separation of church and state", which does not appear in the Constitution itself, is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment. It has since been quoted in several opinions handed down by the United States Supreme Court.
if you want to call secular, aka non-religious "atheist" then go ahead. Facts are, it's what this country is founded on. But don't worry, your republican friends are working hard on changing that.
"Or maybe I can put it another way: where did the idea come from that we should worship celebrities and we aren't allowed to worship God as we understand Him?"
There's no government-based worship of celebrities either, you know.
"I guess that's a sign that I'm getting old, too."
False modesty, ready to throw another brash statement immediately afterward...
"But there are a lot of us who are wondering where these celebrities came from and where the America we knew went to."
The America you "know" obviously didn't happen in this universe, or you would have known it was founded as a secular nation.
"In light of the many jokes we send to one another for a laugh, this is a little different: This is not intended to be a joke; it's not funny, it's intended to get you thinking."
Honestly, it would work better as a joke.
"She said, 'I believe God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman He is, I believe He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand He leave us alone?'"
How can we expect good crops this season if we take Gaia and Demeter out of our classroom? If you want a country where all policy decisions are religious-based, there's quite a few in the Middle East to consider. Don't lie about this country's origins so you can twist this nation to your liking.
"Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves."
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.
ATTRIBUTION: Attributed to SOCRATES by Plato, according to William L.
Patty and Louise S. Johnson, Personality and Adjustment, p. 277
(1953)."
Looks like "these darn kids today" goes back farther than you thought. And just for the record, you're the only one asking that question.
"Are you laughing yet?"
Well, you're no Stephen Colbert.
"My Best Regards, Honestly and respectfully,"
I doubt that. You're disgracing countless millions in history by attributing all societal decline to secularism when it's apparent that countries with a greater percentage of atheists: France, Japan, Norway, are doing pretty well for themselves. Meanwhile you give us a threat to "worship OR ELSE!" covered in a thick layer of false humility. I don't need a god to tell me what's right or wrong, and I would not threaten people with future suffering just because they don't think exactly like I do.
Do us a favor and stop pretending you know what god is thinking. You don't. It's called faith.
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