Blagojevich and that 'culture of corruption'
I think it's now safe to say that Illinois has stolen from Alaska the title of Nation's Dumbest Governor.
Beyond that, it's hard to conclude much of anything about about the stench of corruption emanating from Rod Blagejovich's quarter of the Illinois Democratic Party, and especially to suggest that it extends much beyond that realm. Yes, there's a long history of corruption in Chicago politics (we all remember too well Dan Rostenkowski). But there's simply no evidence that Barack Obama or for that matter progressive Democrats from Illinois generally have had much of anything to do with these folks at all.
Case in point: Rep. Jan Schakowsky, D-9th, who many of us have been hoping would get the job. She was interviewed by Andrea Mitchell today on MSNBC, and got off a deft one-liner about her role in the mess:
I thought at the time that I was a serious contender, but I realize now I probably wasn't, because he never asked me for anything. So I must have been out of the running.
Like Obama, Schakowsky has called for Blago to step down.
But of course, none of this has kept the Malkinite flying monkeys from fanning out across the skies. They're busy shouting "culture of corruption" at the Democrats now.
Please. Can we be spared the lectures about corruption from the people who brought us Jack Abramoff and the K Street Gang (where every Republican in sight was busy bellying up to the trough), Enron, and Cheney/Halliburton?
Ben Smith and Jonathan Martin at Politico have one of the only rational assessments of the risks Obama faces. The key point they raise is that the situation warrants keeping U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald in his seat for the time being -- and we strongly agree.
Obama is a fraud and a liar.
Obama has no idea Blagojackoffovich's behavior patterns
Obama has no idea of Rev Wright's attitudes and behavior patterns
Obama has no idea of Resco's attitudes and behavior patterns...
Obama lived, worked, and breathed in this Chicago Crook County political machinery, claims ignorance of all this, and this fraud is a trustworthy judge of character?
Suckers.
tried to distance himself from it.
I love the way the wingnuts are already out trying to discredit the Pres.-elect with something he had nothing to do with. I hope they'll be as "johnny-on-the-spot" when he fixes the economy!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
wrong. it is mathematically impossible and structurally impossible to "fix" this economy.
the debt can never be paid back.
[deleted]! Obama was NEVER part of any machine. I live in this city and am a community organizer too. Machine politicans would never stoop to working the streets with common folk....until Obama, community organizers were looked down upon by City Hall.
As I said earlier, you don't know what [deleted] are talking about.
[Tone it down. It's the internets-Sitemonitor]
Say what you want about Obama, but you're doing the classic guilt by association thing. Just cause Blag is a crook doesn't mean Obama is one.
You Repug assholes have an army of weasels in your tent. Obama won fair and square, and if you think he's stupid enough to go in on Blag's deal, you are pretty stupid yourself.
guilt by association is not a fallacy.
I suggest you check out criminal association charts that law enforcement and prosecutors use to map out networks.
when you hang out with criminals, say such as the mob, then you are likely a criminal, or at the very least, giving silent approval.
Only when it applies to the party that doesn't share your values, right?
Your model is flawed, my friend.
hasty assumption, my friend. you proceed with incomplete information.
how can you glean that I don't apply that standard to the republicans/neocons?
you can't.
Not right now, but I'll assume you don't since you called Obama a fraud and a liar. In the case you do, then they're all guilty of something based on what their "friends" do, say or think. Moreso, if they've associated with a person with questionable behavior.
When you have definitive proof that Obama's a fraud, I'd like to hear it. In any case, we can say the same thing about George Bush, and the burden of proof is overwhelming.
Ask Obama who he thinks is responsible in the Georgian-Russian conflict.
He lied.
Ask Obama who is responsible for the Anthrax attacks.
He lied
Ask Obama who is responsible for the Nine Eleven attacks...
odds are, he's lying.
You didn't provide his answers...
what's the point in continuing this? you can't research on your own to determine the validity of my argument, or the lack thereof?
I am not going to spoonfeed the answers.
I've made my allegations, either dispute them or agree.
but don't expect me to do everything.
...
You only make allegations, you offer no proof, put up or shut up.
Mr. Truth has been watching too many episodes of that 1950's series "The Untouchables"....he's lazy and that's where he gets his "Chicago machine" bullshit from. "When you hang out with criminals, say such as the mob, then you are likely a criminal." Fucking hilarious! Now isn't that something fucking Joe Friday would say? This guy is an ass, who gets his info from detective comic books. Lol.
are the expletives you say/scream the highest level of your communication and education?
because the old adage of who first loses his temper in an argument loses it, sure applies to you, Obama-bot.
[Quit fighting. If you ALL find this too hard to do, I'll give you ALL a day off to cool down. Mark 12:45 PST-Sitemonitor]
You've shitted on yourself and your credibility regarding Obama with your bullshit comments...you really need to stop.
And next time, bring a couple of facts...thank you.
[Quit fighting. If you ALL find this too hard to do, I'll give you ALL a day off to cool down. Mark 12:45 PST-Sitemonitor]
I thought for a second you were quoting the Gospel of Mark!
lol. nice one.
Association as an automatic indicator of guilt *is* a fallacy. You discredit yourself.
Period.
the fact that blago, not knowing he was being recorded, stated that obama won't play ball in his scheme to sell obama's seat?
how does that fit into to your scenario?
You can play 6 degrees of separation guilt with anything. For example, I can prove that Jesus killed Jesus in 2 steps, as long as you accept the idea that the Jews killed Jesus (WHICH I DO NOT):
The Jews killed Jesus
Jesus was a Jew
Jesus killed Jesus
6 degrees of separation logic is fun, but it's not particularly useful.
this is hardly 6 levels, or degrees removed.
and your example is hardly appropriate. better bone up on your logical fallacies, because what you presented, isn't what you think it is.
Nobody has ever blamed me for the actions of people I know. Not once in 60 years. If you are in politics or big business you can't help but know people who behave badly. Anyone who has ever accomplished anything knows crackpots. It can't be a disqualified. My God, look at the people in the White House now. It's a horror show.
culture of corruption, I say, "Larry Craig, Ted Stevens, W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfo, et. al. 'nuff said!
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
fair enough...
but who did anything about it?
Impeachment off the table. Not even a simple filibuster, or over-ride. And the hearings?
you're being gamed by both parties.
actually, only 1 party, in the guise of left/right.
Have any credible proof to back your "opinion" of Obama? Or do you think that your opinion IS proof like the Neocons do?
Only frauds can't tell the difference between opinion and verifiable fact. Bring it on, pal.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
That's what they said during the G H W Bush Presidency.
BUT...a Democrat did it...AND grew the economy....AND lowered unemployment...and grew the market...
But please...feel free to continue to rant...I certainly wouldn't want the facts to get in the way.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
wrong. the economy didn't grow during any of this time, despite what the government has told you.
that was all debt accumulation. Trillions and Trillions of debt. and thats just what is on the books. what the real debts are surely buried elsewhere.
and Debt is not Growth.
evidence provided:
http://market-ticker.org/archives/2008/12/09....
real debts are surely buried elsewhere.
Yes...I'm sure. I'm sure they are stored inside the Ark of the Covenant...and buried deep inside the confines of a government warehouse.
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
Crawl back in your hole and troll elsewhere. You're a very very sad individual.
So Denninger is your "source" for economic theory, Truth? There are meds that will help cure you of his paranoid rantings.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
the notion of "wealth generation" could also be described as a wholesale grab of peripheral nations' resources, in conjunction with SAPs that foisted neoliberal policies on countries thru blackmail and dishonesty.
privatization of water and other vital resources, privatization of SOEs, etc. all appear to generate wealth. until you realize that they do not. its all an illusion.
(although your link is pure cognitive dissonance)
this is getting silly
wrong. it is mathematically impossible and structurally impossible to "fix" this economy.
the debt can never be paid back.
Typical. Cowards say "can't".
Leaders say..."Watch me."
"Anyone that makes less than $150K in this country, has no business voting Republican."
So I guess since Stevens was found guilty of six or seven felony charges, that makes Palin a felon too. After all, they are both from Alaska.
That's how silly this Blago/Obama thing sounds.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Perfect
Mickey: "It was an epiphany. Do you know what an epipany is?"
Keoni: "NOT NOW MICKEY!"
Chicago(Gotham) could really use Batman to clean things up.
Check Fitzgerald's closet...there just might be a batman suit in there.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
I think you'll find a Don Knott's suit instead. I had much higher hopes for Fitz.
In this case or the Libby case. If it's a Don Knott's suit, cut him a break because Barney had only one bullet.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
ah, poor don knotts. i loved "The Ghost and Mr. Chicken" :)
I think there is. This guy should have a job in DOJ as long as he wants one. Any job he wants.
Since the Republicans decided oral sex is an impeachable offense, there's nothing to stop them from deciding to make "guilt by association" one, too.
It takes a lot of effort to be dumber than Palin and more crooked than George Ryan, Otto Kerner, and Dan Walker. But Blagojevich looks like he will top them all.
Nice going, Rod. Tammany Hall applauds you.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
I know this is kind of rude to say, but I guess I'm in a rude mood.
There are certain pictures of Blago that make him look like a pig wearing a wig.
Okay, now I'll make myself go stand in the corner and think about how mean that sounded.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
But was he wearing lipstick?
He probably would if someone gave him enough money.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Definitely. Blago would do anything to get him a buck or political gain. Lipstick is the least of what he would do.
pissed off patricia:
Yeah, and don't forget to apologize to the pig.
Yep, I'll do that too.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Many of us were thinking of even more vile comparisons, I'd say the pig analogy was on the mild side.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
The two main reasons this guilt by association thing is ridiculous:
* Blago's Republican predecessor in the job, former Gov. George Ryan, is currently in jail on corruption charges -- covering up bribery & getting caught in pay-for-play deals. I guess that means every single Illinois Republican is also guilty by association, as is every Republican who ever had dealings with Ryan.
* Blago got caught partially because of a bill that Obama helped pass. Obama took time out of his election schedule to support an ethics reform bill in Illinois -- a bill that Blago opposed and tried to veto. Let me repeat that: Obama supported the ethics reform that Blago opposed. After it passed, Blago got caught because he was frantically trying to drum up shady "contributions" that would be outlawed as of January '09 thanks to the new law. If Blago hadn't got himself in such a tizzy, he might not have been so loose-lipped on the phone.
See more at:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/10/us/politics...
The Times has a peculiar take in their lead, and somehow thinks it's "irony" that Blago got caught because of this law... but the only irony is that Obama is getting smeared in the backlash.
wrong.
the examples you give indicate that this is systemic. It's not for nothing that Daley and the Chicago political machine has a reputation.
you argument expresses a naivete about how things really are. Corruption abounds, not just in IL, but in every state.
Your argument also is flawed because it assumes that every politician is/was as important in the state hierarchy as the Senator's, 1 of 2 such positions, as say, a state representative to Springfield.
...because I was there when she was teaching you. Eight comments and nothing truthful on this topic concerning Obama. You are funny!
Corruption abounds alright---in the minds of the paranoid and intractibly cynical. People like you tear down what results oriented people attempt to build. You want the world to change? Start by changing your doomsday attitude.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
or in the minds of the perpetual Pollyanna's who don't have a grasp of the reality of the political situation and the false democracy that you live in.
voting, if it really changed anything, the government would outlaw it.
tripped on the street, fallen in a puddle, and drowned while whining yourself to death? I can just hear you wailing: "Woe is me, woe is me!". Snap out of it, whiny.
We knew that the next four years were going to be tough with Obama being attacked on every breath he takes, but I didn't expect it to begin before he was even sworn in. I guess I should have known better.
Say what you mean. Mean what you say. But don't say it mean.
Well it seemed less likely Obama would be hampered by a legitimate scandal,rather than all the made up shit the Pugs have been flinging his way.Its probably a good thing that this is being dealt with now rather than later.They need to cut this ratbag loose and move on as quickly as possible.
"To me, truth is not some vague, foggy notion. Truth is real. And,
at the same time, unreal. Fiction and fact and everything in between,
plus some things I can't remember, all rolled into one big "thing."
This is truth, to me. "
-Jack Handy
Today's Corrupt Governor Update Here
Let's face it, corruption is endemic to our government - at all levels, in all parties, at all times. Who can say which politician is more corrupt? - I guess the ones who get caught..!!
As for Obama, I'm willing to give him a chance to actually be President. But, it is naive to think that any person can be allowed to become a candidate for a major party and be elected to the highest office, and still be squeaky clean (I only wish). Not in this corporatocracy!
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Right On!!!
If Obama was squeaky clean and non-connected in the political arena, the Military Industrial Complex would not have allowed him to take the reins.
The most prudent assumption is to assume a politician is corrupt, as it is the system in which they play, is built upon it, exploits it, and rewards it. Corruption is the normality of the real power structure.
And if someone ascends to the highest office in a corrupt system?
I think we have heard enough of your intractible cynicism and doomsday rendition of political reality. Corruption isn't normal (except to Neocons) and neither is your point of view.
Take your arrogant projection elsewhere and spare us your victim mentality bullshit.
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
corruption isn't normal?
what, are you 16 and only going based on what your high school civics books attempted to teach you?
lol. right.
it's the honest people that are the exception. and honest people don't use a corrupt system, financed by the elites and military industrial complex, to become the head of the dishonest system.
For your information, jackass, I was 16 in 1972. So you do the math. My guess is that is well before you were born.
I don't find it a laughing matter that cynical fools like you poison the political discourse of America with your foolish paranoia and intractible cynicism. You bastards tear down what other centered people seek to build.
Your attitude creates your reality, and unless you want to spend your entire life being a helpless, paranoid victim blaming others for your misfortune you better find yourself a more redemptive reality pronto, buster.
Better yet, do your idiotic and condescending pontificating on Redstate, where there are hundreds of wackos and marginalized fools you can hang out with.
Corruption is not normal and you certainly aren't either. And that's good because if Americans were all like you we would be a third world country like Somalia.
Unless you have something redemptive to offer do us a favor please.
GET LOST!
"We will find fulfillment not in the goods that we have, but in the good we can do for each other."
Robert F. Kennedy
Over at NoQuarter site: http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/
All the wingnuts and conspiracy freaks are making up all kinds of stuff with regard to Obama and Blago.
Why don't some of you go over there and check it out. I am getting tired of arguing with these people and would appreciate the help.
Lt. Gov. Pat Quinn would be a great Governor. Let him pick. He's probably pick IL AG Lisa Madigan, also a very competent, qualified straight shooter. She would make an excellent Senator and it would take her out of the running for Gov. and leave it to Quinn for the next election. Everybody wins.
The 23/6 site has some brillinat comedy around this guy. At least I had a good laugh.
"If the US government enforced its banking laws like it did its park regulations, we wouldn't be
in this damn park in the first place." OCCUPY.!!
I'd just like to point out that the "culture of corruption" crosses party lines. It is pointless for Democrats & Republicans to have "pissing contests" and argue about who is the more corrupt. They both are. It's a "human" condition and is not confined to politics, though it does seem to be endemic to politics.
Having said that, I'd like to hear CNN report on the unconscionable corruption in Florida government. There is currently a scandal afoot in Florida concerning double-dipping on the part of Ray Sansom, Speaker of the House. If appropriate and investigation were to be conducted in Florida, the rest of the country might be surprised to learn the extent of corruption in Florida government.
My point is not to convince anyone that Florida is more or less corrupt than any other state...only that "big media" does not report on it...and it is high time they did.
I hardly think so! Sara Palin would have listed the senate seat on Ebay!
They want their hairstyle back.
At any rate, I find it hilarious that the right wing feels the need to lecture everybody on the culture of corruption.
Where were these people when KBR was killing US Special Ops soldiers in Iraq with shitty water and shitty electrical wiring?!
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