Is crazy anti-Obama rhetoric intended to unhinge the mainstream right?
By David Neiwert Sunday Apr 19, 2009 9:00am
The favorite right-wing theme these days is an outgrowth of a meme we heard during the campaign, but sharpened and hardened: Barack Obama, we are now told, is a radical socialist/fascist/Marxist who hates American values, wants to radically transform the nation and destroy capitalism, and enslave future generations with socialist handout schemes.
It isn't just Glenn Beck who's been saying this, though of course Beck has been one of the more prominent voices. But it's everywhere, particularly among the populist Tea Party crowd.
The effects of this kind of rhetoric, as we saw in the 1990s with the militia crowd, is especially toxic. It has a radicalizing effect on people who believe it -- because the situation, as they see it, is now so dire that radical action (or more properly, reaction) is required.
But this time around, it isn't just Bo Gritz and John Trochmann and Mark Koernke and Norm Olson -- the men who led the militia movement in the 1990s -- spewing this stuff, which is where one most frequently heard it in the 1990s.
Now, we're hearing it from mainstream Fox News pundits. From former Republican Senators. From all kinds of people who should know better.
Above, you can watch former U.S. Sen. Rick Santorum tell a Fox anchor that Obama is "contemptuous of American values." The other night, Sean Hannity was on the same tack, asking: "Is there anything that he likes about this country?"
Over on Michael Savage's radio show, his fill-in -- a Washington Times commentator named Jeffrey Kuhner -- said to his audience, addressing Obama: "You are a traitor to your country."
As this stuff filters downward, it grows even more toxic. For an example, check out Then there's returned veteran Pat Dollard:
Every day, it becomes clear that American capitalism, and by necessity the American Constitution, are under assault from a neo-Marxist revolution launched, as it only could be, by a madman, a hate-filled (thank you, Pastor Manning), narcissistic psychopath who is a liar par excellence (thank you again, Pastor Manning), possessed by whatever demons possessed those in whose footsteps he follows. Hitler, Stalin, Hussein et al. Insert your favorites. I don’t know what fucked this two-bit punk up, or when, and I don’t really care, I’m just going to see to it that he is stopped. I’d like you to join me.
Or even more disturbing, perhaps, are videos like this one:
The radicalization is happening across a broad spectrum. It's amazing how many people now take it as a matter of faith the Obama is a fascist. Gee, thanks, Jonah Goldberg. It was a prominent sentiment at the Tea Parties:
But this kind of rhetoric, as the "liberal fascist" meme suggests, actually is originating at a high distribution level: among mainstream conservative pundits. Goldberg, Beck, et al., are only the beginning of how widespread it is.
I received the below e-mail last week from the Conservative Book Club folks. It's actually a promotion for Human Events magazine, but check out the narrative:
It actually almost perfectly encapsulates the emerging narrative for mainstream conservatives, like a handy set of talking points all put together in one place.
And you can't tell me there's no relationship between this kind of rhetoric and the even crazier talk coming from the radical right. Because unlike the armchair right-wing pundits who indulge this stuff because it's a useful way to bestir the troops but couldn't act to save their asses, some of these other people, the radicals who hear this talk and then pump the irrationality even farther, to its illogical extreme, are perfectly capable of acting upon it.
And to listen to them talk, they are primed for action -- thanks to the irresponsible wingnuttery of the mainstream right.
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I'm young, I'm dumb, and I gotta gun! Public idiot number one!
Is it proper to continue to refer to an ex-senator as "Senator So-and-so"?
Is that a title for life, like "Mr. President"?
Fox always does that - elevate their guests with titles that they no longer hold (and sometimes never should have had).
Fox still calls John Bolton, "Mr. Ambassador to the United Nations."
How about, "Mr Recess Appointment and Generally Dispised Domestically and Worldwide Ex-Ambassador to the United Nations."
They're going to keep on it until someone gets killed and then they will get their wish...The Fairness Doctrine will have to be reinstated for their own good
It'll just give them another story for the next news cycle. It's self-perpetuating.
those 3 cops died because of this shit. And FOX and the rest simply attacked the left for what they claim was a hit job.
They don't care.
NOBODY here ever called Bush a fascist, or described his tenure as a regime or junta....
not really a need to point out the obvious.
False equivalents, much? What I want to ask these folks is WHAT exactly is fascist, let alone they think fascism actually means. I do think we'll see action coming from these folks, and not just of the teabagging variety. It will be violent.
But what stumps me is that these paranoid, thinly veiled racist wackjobs believe their rhetoric. Sure, Rush is a performance artist, but the rest seem to genuinely believe what they're saying. It's mass delusion.
Tweaker dumbfuck,
Harry Reid wasn't on CNN calling George Bush a fascist. Do you see the difference shit for brains?
heh.
where have YOU been?
But that's because it was true. Have you forgotten already how many people Bush killed in his eight years? I'll give you a hint, it's in the hundred thousands...Now go grab you bible and gun and leave the commenting to the adults.
Do you really want to go there? For starters he and Cheney just decided that they weren't going to follow any laws that got in their way. Warrantless wiretapping was just the beginning. Bush declared the he was fully protected by the law, yet blocked or ignored any and every attempt at any investigation or questioning. He claimed that "Congress" was informed, yet there were only 8 members out of 535 who were clued in, and then they were sworn to secrecy. One member of this group, Jay Rockefeller, contacted Cheney about concerns regarding the program, and Cheney ignored him. We were told by Bush that the efforts to track terrorists were "targeted and limited" to "known or suspected" terrorists, yet the NSA sought phone records of tens of millions of Americans without producing warrants. Gee, his definition of targeted and limited sure as hell is different than mine. He bitched about the NYT revealing the warrentless wiretapping program yet there were many public appearances where be blabbed and bragged that we were tracking terrorists. Let's not forget all the times he yelled Executive Privilege whenever he didn't want to cooperate with investigations. You'd think that he'd want the truth exposed about the death of Pat Tillman, yet he even blocked inquiries into that. You want to talk about silencing the press? Under the Bush administration the military tried to do just that, by attempting to control the information coming out of Iraq so that America would see only the good stuff. And then we have Cheney, who refused to allow the National Archives to provide oversight duties regarding the security of government documents. He had no problem with this procedure right up to the point when Valerie Plame's identity was exposed. You also recall that Bush did his very best to stack the deck in his favor by requiring that appointees to various positions in the government be Republican Bush supporters. And here I always thought that the government, including the DOJ, was supposed to be bipartisan and serve all the people in America, just not the Republicans. Yet he took the unprecedented step of firing lawyers in the middle of his second term, claiming that they were let go because of the lie of poor job performance only months after they received high praise from their superiors. Finally, we have Cheney, who gave a big "fcku you" to the law when, after shooting a man in the face, he refused to be interviewed by local police until the day after the incident.
My point was simple: Right wing nutjobs calling Obama a fascist are clearly off their chump. However: that's not the point. the point of the article above, had you kneejerk reacitonary dipsticks ever bothered to pay attention to, was not the question of equivalence, but of the polarising rhetoric. I certainly contributed to that: I considered Bush's regime an illegal junta, straight up, and more than a few times I have demonstrated the fascism inherent to Bush's policies.
Was that polarising rhetoric on my part? Sure thing. However, I think it's a bit much to expect people who are clearly delusional and not to quick on the uptake (like the Teabagger crowd) to not engage in the same foaming at the mouth rhetoric that was practised here against GWB. Furthermore, given the revulsion that much of the country felt towards Bush (Dem and Repub), it only makes sense that the right wing of the press corp (FOX et al) would take up this rhetoric as well.
So, I composed the above statement in just such a way as to draw the likes of lillybelle, Mike in MKE, gump and others into missing the point.
Was Bush a fascist? In my mind, yes, very much so, as much as he could be given the few constraints left in the Constitution. Is Obama a fascist? No. Is he a tool of the elites? Yes. He turns over the notes, but refuses to prosecute. He decries intrusion, but keeps the wiretapping system intact. He talks about human rights, but has yet to reinstate habeus corpus. So, as mediocre as Obama has been, he's a damn sight better than Bush, but he simply not much of a prize.
So, here's a dollar people: $
no go buy a clue: YOU'VE BEEN HAD.
but where in this statement:
NOBODY here ever called Bush a fascist, or described his tenure as a regime or junta....
Proves your point here: My point was simple: Right wing nutjobs calling Obama a fascist are clearly off their chump.
Please clue me into your vast intellect if only for a brief shining moment. Because you have equated calling Bush names (who has a clear track record of being an asshole. It has been pointed out here almost daily for years as a matter of fact), to Obama who has been in office less than 100 days. You tricked no one. You sent out an inflammatory statement trolling for comments and you got it.
BTW I agree that Obama has been no prize.
Fish=Fish
Bird=Bird
Shrub=Criminal
Need any more help?
14 years ago today the federal building in Oklahoma City was bombed by a right wing domestic terrorist. The right wing culture in America at the time was strikingly similar to today's. What the right wing Republican domestic terrorists are whipping up right now has real consequences if allowed to rage out of control.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bo...
Back then, domestic violence had been unleashed against American citizens at Waco and at Ruby Ridge. Both the right-wingers AND the left were all outraged.
Eventually, the over-the-top fascist terrorism of our own FBI and Federal Marshalls was reined in with new laws. Clinton learned that he shouldn't wage bloody war against his own constituents on American soil. I believe Obama is smart enough to heed that example.
The Hannity/Limbaugh nutjobs, however, haven't learned a damn thing. It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
But I do believe in both instances they fired at the FBI and ATF first. That's like blaming the soldier for starting the war.
U.S. Marshals shot and killed Randy Weaver's dog, then his son, then his wife.
Then the US Government paid millions to settle -- not something it would have done had it's agents been acting in self defense.
At Waco, I'm not aware that the dozens of women and children burned alive by the US government even had weapons.
At Waco, the Branch Davidians opened fire first, killing outright four ATF agents and wounding 17 others. The women and children would have been just fine, thank you very much, had Koresh et al surrendered or, at the very least, not been the ones who set the compound ablaze. What makes you think the gov't burned them?
One thing the right-wingers are often mistaken about is when Ruby Ridge took place; they say it was under Clinton, but it happened in August 1992. He must have a kick-ass time machine!
And I was never so horrified in my life. 9/11 wasn't the first terrorist attack in the US despite what Bush said. I remain proud to this day how Oklahoma City citizens reacted. I'll never forget some national journalist asked the OKC police spokesman about looting. And he said there wasn't any and there wasn't.
There's a reason Santorum, Gingrich and Delay were voted out of office. They shouldn't even be allowed near a TV camera.
Barack and Joe have been in office three flipping months! And the world...oops, sorry...the country is coming to an end? Really, Republicans? Really, conservative radio? Really, right wing nutjobs with easy access to firearms?
Where was this fire in their hearts when Bush, Cheney and their henchmen broke every law they came across? Where was the outrage when the previous administration destroyed this country and made off like bandits?
You lost the election. You didn't get your way. It happens, trust me. So I'm going to tell you all what you told us in 2000 and 2004:
Stop whining. GET OVER IT!
well, put, all of it..
Pres. Obama's press conference in Port of Spain, Trinidad today was a thing of beauty! BEAUTY!
After 8 miserable, mumbling, appallingly ignorant replies to reporters questions from a toothless press corps, to hear our new President sound so forward thinking and ambivalent to right accusations he is/was too "soft" in acting GRACIOUS to the leader of Venezuela by some numbnut from CNN was simply wonderful.
I think we have a Pres. who can face down the right wing echo chamber. No Drama Obama.
Jon Perr wrote about on C&L: Mukasey Defends Bush's "Hypothetical" Torture
And as we've found out, nothing has come by the use of torture. NOTHING!
in point of fact we have LOST information through our policies of torutre, the alternative methods are FAR more effective, gaining far more actionable information
in addition the policies of torture create more terrorists, more terrorism, more enemies
so something IS accomplished through the use of torture, that would be you lose information and create terrorist incidents
that's right up their alley
I'm glad you're here Dave reporting on these losers. I just picked up your book two days ago and have started reading it, so far you've already gathered enough to write a sequal.
These people have no decency whatsoever.
Thank you for the reporting.
Great effort here, David.
The American interpretation of capitalism is hardly perfect, as the state of the economy will attest- These American nationalists refuse to learn from European models, in regards to what works and what helps make a solid society....
You've got to give the idiot credit for getting things exactly backwards.
of the government is facism.
.
I got it, but some may have not gotten it.
I probably could have said that much better.
Those seven "IT WILL BE AN AMERICA ..."'s from the Conservative Book Club compose nothing less than a corporatist manifesto - even facism - cloaked in conservatism and populism.
that is.
The more the rhetoric from the right heats up, the scarier this situation becomes. Something dreadful could happen, and it won't necessarily come from terrorists outside the US.
Like all other right wing movements they will end up fighting with each other more than anything else. They are so filled with hate and hungry for power that they even distrust each other.
Phil Gramm would call these guys "whiners".
And he would be right.
*
Wasn't it peculiar that we didn't have hoards of cops standing around at the teabaggers ball like during a DFH protest?
Check out about half the guys holding the most bigoted signs. They were just off duty.
For the truth
well, of course...
i was not disillusioned about the rough road ahead for obama, but i really am surprised about this ugly turn... hope is fading...
i s'pose that's their point...
Can you look into old clips of Fox News saying that sex on TV leads to sex and morale decay in society?
That would be a great point to argue that their words today are helping to incite violence.
They can't have it both ways. They can't say that media causes sex, then not be responsible later, when they are the ones causing the violence.
Know what I mean?
-steve
EXCELLENT point. Do your country a favor and send an e-mail to both Maddow and Olbermann on this idea. Please.
*
.
is a real piece of work. They are openly calling for shooting liberals in the forum over there. Maybe it's going to happen no matter what. IDK. WTF can even be done about it? Like the article states, even the mainstreamers are unhinged. They own the airwaves, the editorial boards and even supposed liberal oasis like public radio.
Congressional Democrats are the biggest group of pussies (outside of Feingold and Kucinich) I have ever seen. Hate radio from coast to coast, Obama distancing himself from torture prosecution. Can you see the writing on the wall?
If someone went and shot someone because of the political leanings, the shooter, and it was revealed that person was a regular Faux News and Rush Limbaugh viewer/listener, that a savvy enough lawyer could put together a case against them for negligence, if not gross negligence. It'll quite a stretch but shit, the "twinkie defense"?
I'm sure this nut job has drawn the attention of the FBI and the Secret Service.
Yes and then we can ALL listen to the guy's insane rantings together.
*
The FBI, CIA and Secret Service should be working overtime. I would love to see some visits and/or arrests.
of those comments as well. No one need go any futher than that to confirm the right wing nut job/ returning veteran recruitment warnings from the DHS report.
Ain't it funny how the far right goes batshit when a dem is in the WH and the far left pretty much stays the same when a rep is in.
It seems to be more and more apparent that cons and libs are wired differently. I remember reading something about this a while back...
Regardless someone with some nuts needs to stand up and start holding those spewing the erroneous/inflammatory rhetoric under the microscope - and hold them accountable - before it's too late...
what is these peoples problem? obamas giveing them what they could have expeted under mccain!
but these people are unglued
oh jesus from some of the shikes ive seen on here thiers very little difference !
Shikes? is that one of those new teenage words that's making the rounds? Closest I could find is from the Urban Dictionary meaning a combination of shit and yikes but that really doesn't work in your sentence
try the scotts dictionary under s and it works fine for some!
extract meaningful info from this ranting drivel?
It's like beating your tongue with a rubber ring (as my mother used to say about crazy people)
You're mother knew about French-ticklers?
I thought the same as you at first. Now I kinda like it. Rock on, tyree!
I didn't think he was talking about Tyree, I thought we were still trying to figure out the teabaggers minds
did i say that? the truth is thier are mindless pricks who follow a politician as if he was thier daddy not just a politician ! and thoes are on both sides!
i have SOME beliefs that wallStreet has some control of government. there's too much money in washington. capitalism and government have excluded "the people". these financial and lawmaker elites have decided what's best for this country without the will of the people. the result has been the widest
economic gap of the haves and have nots this country has seen.
ulterior motive here...me thinks back to Germany...30ish
i think thier are folowers of both partys that would love to put on jackboots and march to the reichstag to give the old one arm salute!
Obama ran for president for how long? Two years? How could anyone afford a nationwide campaign for that long without huge corporate support? It's like being a whore for big business is a qualification to even play the game.
Otherwise you get a real "man of the people". Like billionaire Ross Perot. /sarcasm
exactly fiver , why do you think they started so early . pound the immage of the politician in your brains till your head hurts!
certainly sheds light on some of the letters in my local s.central illinois daily paper...
wow.
Santorum makes me puke. Why doesn't he just go find a dog and settle down?
Many of you probably have seen this, but I think it bears another look at:
http://www.spreadingsantorum.com/
What a clown. It is no wonder this turd got trounced out of office once he opened his mouth.
I was so upset with the last administration as they were wiping the dog shit from their feet on the Constitution...but somehow I feel these pigs need to be held accountable for the lies and fear they are spewing. Sedition is, to me, as serious as treason. When you simply conjure up crap to make the citizens take to arms, when you cast your elected leaders as working against the interests of the nation....isn't that, or shouldn't that be a crime when it is absolutely false???
leaders condone this activity with their passive governing styles.
C'mon guys, we don't have to play their game (Aain).
You see, by simply defending against the charges that Obama is a radical socialist/fascist/Marxist who hates American values, wants to radically transform the nation and destroy capitalism, and enslave future generations with socialist handout schemes, we Don't Have To Talk About (or even admit) How the last republican misadministration(s) have All been radical communist/fascist plutocrats who hate government and want to radically transform the nation by imposing their hypocritical and theocratic values, enslaving future generations with no-bid profiteering and corporate handout schemes, all on the backs of American taxpayers...
(That's the real issue here)
See how easy it is??
I think that there is a concerted effort by some on the right to radicalize the dwindling remnants of the conservative movement. This is most notable in the populist wing of the Republican party. The move, I think, has twofold goals. Firstly, they seek to make up for their dramatically declining numbers with fanatical fervor to gain a voice in the public sphere. The other goal is internal party politics and reflects the populists' efforts to unseat the plutocrats in control of the Republican Party.
The narrative has been controlled completely by the right. In this context, Harry Reid is a right wingers wet dream.
-- Pat Dollard
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a word in the constitution that declares America to be a capitalist state. This kind of ignorance comes from a falsehood that has been promulgated in the US at least since WWII - that democracy and communism are competing systems. Not only the right, but most moderates and even many liberals continue to believe this clap-trap.
This whole way of looking at things is only viable by a deliberate mis-classification of terms.
-Communism is an economic system, not a political system, and should only be discussed in terms of its opposites, which can be termed capitalism, feudalism, or fascism.
-Democracy is a political system, and should only be measured against various competing systems; dictatorship, totalitarianism or monarchy.
Logically democracy and communism are not mutually exclusive, and some countries have decided democratically to elect communist governments. Of course the resulting governments are usually brutally deposed by the US as in the cases of Arbenz in Guatamala and Allende in Chile. Hugo Chavez is next on the list.
The right wing pundolts also make it sound as if capitalism and socialism were mutually exclusive (probably has to do with the name Union of Soviet Socialist Republics), when that it blatantly false. You can have a capitalist system with socialist programs, look at Canada. Even here, what the hell do they think the public school systems are.
In the U.S. socialism is just another scare word. People hear socialism and they don't "oh like Canada?" or "Oh like in Europe?" No they think "oh shit the Soviet Union is coming!"
People hear socialism and they don't "oh like Canada?" or "Oh like in Europe?"
actually, what i hear is:
"oh no! not like Canada!" or "Oh no! not like in Europe!" horrors!
As a socialist, I would argue that it is capitalism, with its inevitable concentration of wealth and power in a small elite, which is inherently incompatible with democracy. That is indeed why I became a socialist, which extends democratic principles to the economic systems. Those who actually produce the wealth of the nation (which is the workers according to Adam Smith) should enjoy the bulk of the rewards of that wealth.
"As a socialist, I would argue that it is capitalism, with its inevitable concentration of wealth and power in a small elite, which is inherently incompatible with democracy." - Dr. Dick
And I would agree with you 100%. See also constituent's excellent comment @ 10:53. It's right on the mark.
What percentage of people who believe all this bull (like Obama being a Muslim, or born in Kenya, etc) on faith, are also Evangelicals or born-agains. I'm seriously starting to wonder if being a religious fundamentalist is indicative of a propensity in a person to believe what an authority figure tells you, because they said so.
I mean people believe this crap with such a religious zeal, without bothering to fact check, that it's starting to become a religious dogma on it's own. The Church of Rush Limbaugh of Latter Day Republicans.
these easily duped M-fers are going to be the downfall of this country.
There is no need for leftys to quibble about their differences, the corporations are already deciding how far left this country is going to go
http://www.afnews.info/img/bradford.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrBx6mAWYPU
Will someone please send me a message when Rick SansScrotum says something meaningful enough to warrant paying attention.
Fascism:
~ noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
• (in general use) extreme right-wing, authoritarian, or intolerant views or practice.
This is not stupidity, this is a concerted attempt from the right to smear progressives with the name of the most repulsive political movement in modern history, while at the same time removing itself from any association with historical fascism. It's a win-win for them because at worst they will just obscure the meaning of the word to such a degree that it becomes meaningless, while at best it will mean that people start associating progressivism with Hitlerism.
In other words, it's a classic case of Goebbel's Big Lie.
You, along with other blogs and some responsible news sites have been covering this development well for the last few weeks, but I think it's stuck in second gear--a consistent pattern of behavior on their part is going by a lot of different names, and so remaining pretty broad & abstract to the degree MSM doesn't have any bite-size ideas to capture it. I think this Right-Winger codetalking should be given a name now that it's pretty clear what their goal is.
Can you start a "Lone Wolf Watch", maybe?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism)
I'm just saying these guys need to be pigeonholed with a meme that will have some traction.
Anyone else have ideas as to how to name it?
this statement ties in with the theme:
"... it's time to up the ante on Mr. Henley's liberal goon tactics."
(CNN) -- Don Henley, a founding member of "The Eagles," is suing a Republican candidate for the U.S. Senate, claiming the candidate is misusing two of his popular songs.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/SHOWBIZ/Music/04/18/h...
Christ, we voted him out a number of years ago, but he keeps reappearing. Somebody, please, drive a stake through his heart.
What unhinges me is using the term rhetoric to mean just about anything from lies, bias, propaganda and spin.
I would include slant
But I haven't done any of that since I stopped drinking over a month ago.
Hope that works out for you long term.
I've experience two side-effects:
My mind is getting sharper
And I'm hornier alot more.
sounds like a win/win...
What I don't understand is how they can say one minute that Obama is trying to take control over the corporations that accept tax-payer's money
To insisting he should just hand over tax payer's money without strings attached
To saying they're against using tax payers money at all.
I don't think these people need any more unhinging: they're arrived.
I've said it before and I will say it again.
If these right wingers hate our President so damn much, they are perfectly free to pack up their bags and leave. Perhaps they'll find Iran or Afghanistan to their liking. No one is holding a gun to their heads and saying "YOU MUST STAY!"
If you hate Obama so much, then GET THE HELL OUT.
Santorum, do you believe in democracy?
The American voter told you what they think of your opinion in 2006. We rejected Fascist, Republican Cronyism then and again in 2008. You are fortunate to live in a country that allows you to freely speak your mind, but stop saying, "America is" this and "America is" that when you mean "I believe" this and "I believe" that.
You no longer speak for America. You represent no one. You represent jack .... Get over it!
http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg...
http://gamesnet.vo.llnwd.net/o1/gamestar/obje...
My brother has a second small residence on his property that he rents out. He has one of these nuts living there - someone he's rented to for over 10 years. They've always gotten along just fine before and my brother has even considered him a friend.
But the guy is increasingly paranoid and freaked out by the rhetoric put out on Obama by the reich-wing. He comes into my brother's house and spews long diatribes on how horrible Obama is, how much danger the country is in now, etc. - the WHOLE banana - really ugly stuff. In part he's upset because my brother voted for Obama.
He came in one day and went into a union-bashing speech - despite the fact that my brother was union for years before he became disabled. And he can't shut up about government control and tax abuse - despite the fact that he hasn't paid taxes himself for years - he's paid under the table as a pizza delivery guy.
And he's dumb as a stump, unmarried, a pot addict, and no computer. If he had one he wouldn't know how to turn the thing on - and I'm sure he hasn't set foot in a library the whole of his life. Unless they'd ordered pizza of course.
This irretrievably stupid segment of society is what the re-Thuglics are pinning their viability hopes on.
This is as scary as it is pathetic.
*
You brother should give his renter a few badly wired bug-zappers to spark-gap hash all over the AM broadcast band. Get him to listen to some light jazz on FM an cool the fuck down.
That's exactly how I envision the "average American" already. I'm sure many others on the planet do too. Thanks for the visual.
That is the tune the fellow used there in his "Call To Arms" video. Numb-nut probably thought it was public domain 'cause it sounds "Traditional". Well it ain't. It was composed by Dougie McLean, who is alive and well and, I am pretty sure he still owns the copyright. Having listen to (and met a couple of times) Dougie, he strikes me as someone who wouldn't want his music used politically without permission.
The way I see it, your country is now oligarchy and has been for decades. The constitution and the republic are indeed in danger - the signs are numerous, and it's not just happening to the United States, by the way.
I don't see what is so radical about standing up and drawing a line in the sand that the state may not cross. That was the whole point of the constitution. I wish success to those who desire to defend it.
Between using a logical argument with premises based in reality to "draw the line", and using scare tactics such as trumping up threats, making boogiemen, and using trigger words. While yes it is politically effective, it isn't something the U.S. Founders would condone.
Faux News and the Church of Rush Limbaugh of Latter Day Republicans do the latter.
If you claim to be a patriotic American who believes in the ideals this country was founded on, then there is a correct way and an inccorect way to draw the line in the sand. Not to say other countries don't have their own correct ways of doing things according to their own values, I'm just pointing out that here, they're doing it the incorrect way. And not just that, but for their own ends, not for what is good for the country.
I think I agree with what you're saying.
It seems to me that the fear of impending dissolution of what America once was, is causing some to react less rationally than others.
But the underlying fear, I think, is quite valid.
I really hope that, somehow, Americans can pull together in a non partisan way to wrestle the Republic from the control of the international oligarchy.
Trying to solve the issue from within a partisan framework seems, to me, to be hopelessly misguided, given that both parties are essentially under the same thumb.
Good luck... the world watches.
I agree with what you are saying. While these people are somewhat crazy (even unhinged), they are essentially fighting for their country, just as the left does, but in different ways, and for different reasons.
I think everyone knows/can see America is broken.
The mission is to form an alliance and fight the real enemy, in Washington. The politicians aren't going to do it. Partisan bickering keeps them in a rotating power model, while they all golf together, and have a good laugh as they get richer.
in America where the standard for revolution is because "my guy" lost.
This problem has been brewing for years in one form or another... things have simply reached new heights lately.
I wouldn't look at it in those terms. Sure, some people are using the fact that their guy lost to lend their voices to the wider protest. But the protest existed prior to that event.
you would have not heard one peep from FOX or these teabaggers. No sir. If anything, the libertarians who put something like the teabagging events together under McCain would have been ridiculed and scorned by FOX and the rest of the douchebags. It was partisan crying by neocon sympathizing fools. Not the wave of growing unrest you're talking about.
many of the neocons and folks now discussing these issues on Fox would not have been doing so if McCain had won...
But what I'm hearing in posts like the one above is that the issue itself is invalid because Fox people are discussing it.
And that's where I disagree. I think the concerns are very valid, and we ought not to dismiss them simply because they're now being voiced by people with whom we are accustomed to disagreeing.
I agree in ways that we do need to discuss some dangerous issues facing us.. tax structure and havens included- but is Fox discussing that? It's really as if Fox debates to obviscate.. And that is a challenge for those of us who see injustice.. But Fox and friends play an old game, ysbaddaden has pointed out analagous historic incidents.. but I'm continually reminded of the crowds of hired goons that paraded through 18th C England shouting 'God and King!' as they went about attacking people working for democratic reforms.
It's analagous in ways, also, to those of us in marginalzed groups whom we know to be composed of a full spectrum of individuals some of whom are not to our liking but with whom we must group for protection. Given a non polarized situation, our actions can be different.. so maybe we need to deal with the polarity if we wish to really discuss and we can't really discuss until we've dealt with the polarity..
the solution that seems to be offered is that liberals are to be the ones to stand down and accept submission. Yeah!!! WOO HOO!!!! The years of being called a traitor is not enough, now we have to allow right wing propaganda to dictate the future. AGAIN!!!!!
as I've observed it, is to fight not to flee.. If I'm surprised by what I believe is a deadly threat, I try to destroy the threat before it hurts me..
I want to believe it is possible to outsmart the inflexible minority of idealogues who are unwilling or incapable of evolving.. they are contending for public opinion and they have real advantages.. The other evening I saw a PBS show called ThinkTank or something which purported to be a scholarly economic investigation with someone from the Enterprise Institute or somesuch.. what a travesty! Mercenary ideologues in scholarly drag on PBS! The drumbeat of misinformation and half truths paraded unchallenged, it was very disheartening. I call myself working for peace and understanding but I'm hardwired to defend offensively. I don't take credit or blame for that fact.
The issue itself isn't invalid, what is invalid is what Faux has to say about it. It also goes back to what I said earlier about trumping up threats.
Take Glenn Beck for example. Why is he pumping up this huge spectre of Obama coming to your house to take away your guns? Is that really an issue right now? Why hasn't he cried about overseas tax havens?
In the past they've also featured disgraced and dis-barred attorney Jack Thompson as some sort of expert, when his methods lead to dis disbarment.
Also look at the language used by Beck and O'Reilly. Why do they rely on emotive language and buzz words to try to get their points across?
It's yellow journalism, no different than the kind that whipped the country up into going to war against Spain. Rupert Murdoch is the modern day William Randolph Hearst. Faux's credibility is certainly questionable.
That's not to say CNN and others aren't guilty of the same thing, but they're arguably not as bad as Faux. I mean they don't have people like Michele Malkin.
Yes maybe I am dismissing the message for the messenger, but if you have a compulsive liar telling you stuff everyday, you tend to stop taking him seriously.
And now you've hit on the core problem
How does a population so used to being deceived recognize truth when it's right in front of them?
A true message, co-opted by deceivers, can easily get written off as a falsehood.
Many around the world are alarmed at the direction we are headed in. Globalization has been shown to be a less than benevolent force. People across the political spectrum are objecting to it -
What would those who favour it want to do to the American perspective if it started shifting against it?
Would discrediting the core concerns be part of the agenda?
Now, globalization wasn't really the issue being discussed, but it can be seen as part of the challenge ahead. When we look at how our nations policies are being shaped, this is certainly part of what is shaping them.
Gun control, immigration, health care, monetary policy - it is all being influenced by globalization, and by those who are forging this brave new world.
So it's great to be skeptical of the message coming from Fox. But I think it's also good to ask why certain messages are being discredited.
I apologize for how my argument has meandered off topic, but this is the way my mind works sometimes.
I'm going to leave it there. Take care, and thanks for the interesting discussion.
To see though the BS is learn how to argue. That way you can spot all the logical fallacies and write them off, as they prove nothing.
Secondly, do your own research. Unfortunately people these days have gone lazy and just rely on what talking heads tell them.
...there would be no "tea party".
...we'd be in a worse situation.
...there would be no stimulus package.
...the middle and lower class would continue to get the middle finger.
...we'd all be living in tents, and the rich would call us lazy traitors, courtesy of Rush and Fox.
i am beginning to think all gop reichwingnuts
brains are sitting in a cesspool of gang-green.
hypocrites and liars = gop
I want to say that I recall that fascism is essentially corporate control of the government, a marriage between these two institutions. Additionally, fascism entails a one minded outlook while concurrently silencing any dissent or differing viewpoints. W didn't start fascism in the US, but he definitely helped it. Fascism began to rear its ugly head when Reagan entered office. Conservatives and rightwingers need to understand this!
When I read that email, I kept on thinking to myself, "Wow! People are getting pissed because the government wants to make sure you can actually get the medical care that you need in order to live? Making sure that future generations have a planet to live on (however, I'm still holding out for the Genesis project) is somehow anti-American? Can you have an America without planet Earth? And, reverting to a progressive tax system like the one that we used to have during the 50s and 60s is going to make us all communist, fascist, liberal, lazy, hippies while only the true Americans in the Midwest have to pay taxes (shit, and here I thought that my wonderful state of California was actually paying more taxes to the government than receiving federal money)? Damn, I do not understand these people's mindsets at all."
In all, I simply do not understand the rationale of these people. It is completely foreign to me.
he needs to be fired up to try to burn off some that comfort food.. but he defends bottom-up way of like, seems kind a wrong!
The only thing to quiet the unhinged right
More oil.
or is it the squeaky hinge?
Where did Eisenhower republican's go? The extreme right was what got voted against in 08, so the Republican's solution? Well get more loony and extreme to the right, oh good luck with that.
Please keep doing that, you're handing Obama the next election in the bag.
In sarah?
immediately move to nihilism?
They act like spoiled children who, when they don't get their way 100% of the time break everyone else's toys.
...used to beat me when ever I acted like that.
They got purged when the GOP merged with the religious right.
...yet now has all the answers while hiding behind religion.
My best way to describe him is to use the words of one of his fellow republicans of equal intellect and I quote " HE IS A MORAN
I'm MARINE CORP 1967 AND HE IS A DISGRACE TO THE UNIFORM !!
you're call to arms rings hollow when the Republican government shredded the Constitution and you DID and said NOTHING.
In fact you welcomed it because it was supposedly targeting someone else.
Where are you rising up and calling for the Obama administration to investigate and prosecute the Bush administration et. al. all it did to and damage of the constitution.
You are being USED by those who destroyed this economy, who shredded the constitution, who stoke the fires of your fire - to keep them out of jail and to maintain their power - to keep this ship from righting itself.
Is she retarded?
"The White House says he's a success story..."
When?
And why would White House make such a claim?
That wasn't a softball, that was like throwing a pinata.
And who cares what Sanscrotum has to say anyway. He's 18 months from the end of his political career.
Anyone old enough to remember those "Wanted for Treason" posters in Dallas in November, 1963 ? Remember the result ? We're well on our way to repeating history . FOX Noise should be shut down for inciting terrorism .
Obama is attacking God. Santorum's God.
Santorum also goes off about what is American and what is not. Republicans are prolific at knowing what America is America stands for, and what Americans are.
Santorum has accused Americans of wanting "Man on Dog" Sex.
For some reason, Rick Santorum left women out of that statement?
Doesn't FOX do great reporting?
How many stories are positive? No matter who they are talking about.?
They report you decide
They think queing Santorum's trouble mind to lather on how bad Americans are that he (Santorum)doesn't like. Those that are like him hate those same Americans too. Yet, no opposing questions to spur honest debate. Juat another great FOX broadcast to hate your fellow Americans for their independent thought.
of those comments as well. No one need go any futher than that to confirm the right wing nut job/ returning veteran recruitment warnings from the DHS report.
Ain't it funny how the far right goes batshit when a dem is in the WH and the far left pretty much stays the same when a rep is in.
It seems to be more and more apparent that cons and libs are wired differently. I remember reading something about this a while back...
Regardless someone with some nuts needs to stand up and start holding those spewing the erroneous/inflammatory rhetoric under the microscope - and hold them accountable - before it's too late...
Didn't Pennsylvania already kick this asshole to the curb for being a right-wing kook? Why do I ever have to see this sanctimonious creep again? These wingnuts act like Obama loves spending his time trying to fix an economy they so ecsquisitely broke into a million shards. Also, why do they keep leaving out "military" in their faulty facism equation?
but, as I recall, didn't he get his ass kicked when he lost the election and that title? Someone should inform this anchor bimbo that he is no longer a senator, so referring to him as senator, is wrong.
I'm glad Santorum is expressing his views. They are all the same views that got him unelected. He tries to blast Obama for expanding power and socialism when he himself was a lap dog for the Bush administration, the one presidential administration in this country's history that set up a "unitary executive" for itself and that spent us from a large Clinton surplus into the biggest deficit that this country has ever seen and that now taxpayers have been put on the line to help correct, which was started by the bush administration as well. Obama inherited all the shit that bush established and that Santorum blessed with his vote each and every unthinking, uncritical time that he supported bush in his destructive policies. Why should anyone be listening to anything that Santorum has to say now? Although he is still alive and probably defrauding the people where ever he now lives, Virginia, or Pennsylvania? one never can keep up. But, all round, he's a sleaze bag and should not be trusted for any advice or listened to about any topic. And, someone should tell that bitch to stop calling him senator because he's not. He got his ass kicked.
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