Gunman walks into D.C.'s Holocaust Museum, opens fire, is wounded by guards UPDATED: Man has white-supremacist ties
By David Neiwert Wednesday Jun 10, 2009 9:36am
Good God. This looks like the latest episode in what is looking like the spate of right-wing violence we've been predicting:
WASHINGTON - At least two people were shot at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington on Wednesday, authorities say.
D.C. police spokeswoman Traci Hughes said a person walked into the museum with a rifle and shot a guard. Hughes says the shooter was also shot.
Hughes says the victims' conditions were not known. Both were being rushed to a hospital.
I was just in the Holocaust Museum on Friday. It is a sacred and hallowed place, and this man was clearly out to defile it. More details as they arrive.
UPDATE: MSNBC's Pete Williams is reporting that the suspect was an elderly man who belonged to white-supremacist organizations. More details shortly.
UPDATE2: Here are the details so far from Williams:
The suspect, who was not identified, was reportedly a man, born in 1920, who had possible connections to hate groups or anti-government groups.
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takers for bets on what kind of literature they will find in his hovel?
I have a feeling we already know.
The Tiller shooting focused on abortion - not the hate from white Americans.
The Museum shooting goes on for an hours on every channel about the persecution of Jews -not the hate from white Americans.
Gay violence- about gay sex, not the hate from White fu**ing Americans!!
WWII was about things other than the fu**ing Holocaust. Middle East wars are about things other then Jewish persecution.
Hate crimes are continually hidden whenever white Americans are involved.
But these same American whites who typically hate Jews, in their larger wars against Blacks, Hispanics and Muslims find a bizarre compromise/brotherhood with many hard line Jews here in our Congress and in Israel-like Netanyahu - who know they aren't liked but are tolerated only to share in a portion of the plunder as they equally target Muslims in particular or any other race near great sources of oil and gas wealth.
But as we continually, dealing with the devil always has its price.
Books by 0'Liely and Hannity by any chance?
A dollar each if the join the club.
MSNBC just reported that the man has ties to anti-government/white supremacist groups.
So, I'm betting, in the very least, at the very tamest, Atlas Shrugged.
When the Dept of Homeland Security came out with a report about right-wing extremism/terrorism, right wingnuts like Bill O, Michelle Malkin, RedState.com and others blew a gasket. After the murder of Dr. Tiller and now this, will we hear an apology from them? Since the report was accurate.
He is 89. I am surprised such a person can lift a sawed off shotgun.
the same thing, however, I deal with the elderly quite a bit and every now and then there's a surprise among the bunch. Even though they may be physically, relatively fine, that doesn't mean the brain survived intact.
He probably didn't go on a shooting spree because he's old or senile, he's probably just a bastard. Most likely an anti-Semitic one.
..I'm 89. What the hell are they going to do me?
So he goes on this killing spree, safe in the knowledge that either he'll never stand trial or not last too much longer anyway.
Great - now we have to worry about seniors with guns and an axe to grind!
I try to avoid tact.
I don't know, my grandfather is 83 and can still shoot with amazing accuracy. He can't hear for shit but he can still shoot.
it's all that shootin'
because he's been "in the shit" many times, though in his case because he forgot to change his Depends.
straight away figured he had some Mossad stuff in the glove compartment.
I see that Israel is now saying they have a "P.R. Problem".....:
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=12...
Yeah, they have a P.R. problem all right, especially with the USS Liberty Incident coming to light more and more every day and war crimes investigations being conducted by the International Red Cross and the U.N.
(P.S. I'm not anti-Semetic. I'm anti-Zionist).
.
Zing!
One report on Fox said terrorism hasn't been ruled out. Funny, I didn't hear a report like that from them when Dr Tiller was shot.
How does a guy with a shot gun get it into a place like that? Wouldn't somebody see a gun that big?
Hopefully the victims will be okay. Crazy people with guns is never a good idea, in fact it's tragedy waiting to happen.
Apparently the shooting took place outside the building.
When, as bocilla said, they find the right-wing literature on this guy, it will be interesting to see if Fox still thinks terrorism is involved.
Typical of FAUX "News". WTF do they call walking into a building and opening fire? What they meant was Islamic terrorism hasn't been ruled out. If it was just another FAUX "News" watching, Obama hating dittohead, he'll just be another nutjob who was "acting independently"
..I don't understand why you need an assault rifle to hunt Bambi but mostly, Hunting or target shooting can be fun. But, as a society, we are rapidly losing our ability to control the gun violence associated with hate crimes, gangs, drugs, etc. The NRA doesn't seem to care. That's not really fair though to say. They do have good programs and preach gun safety but the message isn't getting though to everybody.
It is time to take some of the guns off the street! Sorry 2nd Amendmenters but you ain't members of a regulated militia; you just own guns and like a driver's license, that should be a privilege not a right and one you can lose with severe penalties if you break the law.
My wife is a DC tour guide and is on the Mall as we speak. She says it's chaos down there right now.
I hope you heard from your wife before you heard the news. If not you must have been so scared.
As soon as this popped up on my computer I called her. I knew she was going to be downtown today, but I didn't know where and what time. Thankfully her group hadn't gone to the Holocaust Museum yet.
she's o.k. How frightening that we can't go to museums in peace.
True. Can you imagine if it had been at a more popular place where a security system is just impractical, such as the Lincoln Memorial or the Vietnam Veterans Memorial? That's the National Park Service's nightmare.....
It's that way in many places: schools, hospitals, shopping malls, etc. I work in a locked-access ICU department in a huge, inner-city hospital. We screen via camera and phone, but it would not be hard for someone to bring in a gun. We've had instances where we've had criminals or gang members as patients and they've actually provided security in the form of metro police at the entrance and then again outside and inside the patient's room. The other floors in the hospital are completely open and easily accessible.
I used to be a supervisor on the Mall, and every time someone left a backpack or other bag unattended, we had to evacuate the area until we could determine what the bag was. Thankfully, most of the times a visitor would sheepishly approach one of the rangers or park police and say that it was their bag that they'd just forgotten.
But in these times, you just can't be too cautious.
allowing guns in U.S. parks?
C'mon...it's a free country. I mean everyone should be allowed to carry guns, walk around inebriated, molest small children, kill, maim, embezzle, cheat, lie...I mean...it all comes out in the wash anyway.
It's the conservative, libertarian view...isn't it?
thank god for teh 2nd!!!!
*Shoots from his concealed weapon into the skies in celebration*
Yes, it was a rider on the credit card reform bill.
It was passed as a separate bill earlier, but a District Court Judge struck it down. Not to be outdone, the NRA finagled it into the c.c. bill.
What it does is allow conceled carry guns into National Parks in line with that particular state's concealed-carry laws.
So now, when you're hiking in a National Park, you never know who's packing heat. Lovely.
All the NPS rangers hate it, and it makes for an enforcement nightmare. And to top it off, the reciprocity between states is anything but clear; i.e. TX may accept CA's concealed-carry permits, but CA may not accept TX's. The carrier is required to know the law in each state, but some of the wingnuts I've run into don't have a clue - then get all pissed off when we tell them they can't carry their gun unless it's broken down and stored in their vehicle.
But taking ANY firearm into a federal building is still prohibited, no matter whether you've got a concealed-carry permit or not.
Sorry about the rant; the law is idiotic and should be overturned.
Actually in museums you can rest in peace.
Lets not forget the contributions to our national discourse, validating fear and hatred as justified, by the PALIN/mccain campaign.
Nothing is known yet at all about anything or why this happened (though yes, the location gives pause.) I live in the DC metro area and we are just getting snippets but no defining details or motives.
Just saying, please wait until we know more... leave the speculating to the 24/7's. (i.e. remember when they immediately claimed the OKC bombing was muslim related until it was later realized to be a domestic terrorist.)
Point well taken.
anything about the shooter....but come ON!
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this one out.
It happened at the HOLOCAUST Museum!
The shooter's very likely an anti-semitic rightwing asshole.
Probably, but having lived in DC for many years, I can vouch for the number of mentally deranged people that live there, many of whom are homeless on/around the Mall.
So it's best for us to wait until the shooter's ideology is confirmed.
Don't forget to include th conservatives in congress.
bada-BING!!
Could be a spurned lover. An insane person of any political stripe. Gang related.
Wait until all the facts are in before passing judgement.
It's tough out there when seniors form gangs.
Until we know for certain we're merely speculating.
[edit]
well, now that more updates have come out about the shooter...it appears our initial instincts were dead-on
...as well as requesting a fair assessment of motives w/o flying off the handle... But when this bag of peni turned out exactly as bad as could be imagined, it just makes one sad.
If it was your random 7-11, I would have willingly been spanked for "flying off the handle." However, it was The Holocaust Museum.....
We really need to tone the rhetoric down until we know the facts and then make rational statements; not knee jerk hostile comments.
I thought Barack was supposed to be ushering in an age of listening to people, not casting stones. Besides, it just makes sense to not make judgements when there are no facts to support those judgements. It just makes us look like dopes when the facts come in and don't support our judgement.
Seriously, just imagine all the possibilities that could be behind this incident.
I think our speculation comes much as it did when we first heard that Dr. Tiller was shot. It's just human nature to try to figure out what happened and why. I do see your point and I do understand your concern.
(see above post).
however, I don't listen to 24/7s, don't have access to television, and I really don't believe what they say anyway. And, my gut tells me that it's homegrown.
Neo Nazis thrive on hard times and desperation.
President Obama...it's time to TELL each network...cable and otherwise that they WILL give you an hour of primetime space for a LECTURE to the country on the rule of law and how it will be enforced.
To stop tasering grandmothers and great-grandmothers!!!
Police state anyone?
No thanks, already have one.
What the hell is wrong with people? "A sacred and hallowed place" is exactly right - the permanent exhibit is powerful.
All the Smithsonian and nearby museums have some security, and as the article states, the Holocaust Museum has metal detectors. It sounds like the shooting occured in the main lobby.
in addition, many govt buildings have huge concrete planters to keep cars from driving through the glass doors. many museums do not allow backpacks or even purses. YOu cannot bring your knitting needles into the white house either...although why one would feel the need to knit while visiting the WH I'll never know.
what/who was he going to shoot? taking a rifle into a museum in DC sounds like the act of a loon.
Only Jews go to Holocaust Museums. Duh. They're suckers for punishment.
Yes, this guy was a loon. I'm betting 80-90% of all yearly museum visitors are not Jewish. A good 10-20% are probably blond and blue-eyed.
They're from Spain?
Denmark.
Like, So Cal, dude!
I always wanted to write a story about a young Nazi surviving a sinking of a sub and finding himself washed up on a Southern Californian beach, thinking it was Valhalla.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uf5rIuJPTt0
Like, guten haben,there, Johan-dude!
When the Spaniards first landed in California, they literally thought it was an island. In fact they thought it was the "Califa," i.e. the paradise for the moor tradition.
California got its name from a contemporary work of Spanish fiction, The Exploits of Esplandian, by Garci Rodriguez de Montalvo. In the novel, the land was called that after its queen, Califia, and was said to be rich in strange animals and gold, and populated by black Amazons. Because of rolling, golden hills encountered by the sailors that first landed, they called it after the mythical golden land of fiction.
It never had anything to do with any "moor tradition".
(Child of Spaniards talking here.)
came from the moor tradition, which is what I was referring to.
in Los Angeles!! The Simon Wiesenthal Center.
They're rechristening it the Simon Cowell Centre.
Key West too.
Miami Beach has a very moving one.
they better get some scanners on those doors.
Only jews go to holocaust museums???
I'm sure lots of Jewish people do go, but there are lots of school groups and other groups that go. The point is not only to remember the event and honor the victims, but to educate future citizens of all religious backgrounds.
Sarcasm and text don't mix. I figured my second line would clarify that.
The WaPo doesn't have much more info yet. Three victims, one guard and two other people, and the gun wounds are considered serious:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/...
According to a cop that was just interviewed, the guy walked into the main entrance and either before or after the metal detector he and a guard exchanged fire and then two other guards opened fire. The shooter was shot along with one of the guards. As of now it seems that no body was killed.
"it's time to end firearm waiting periods. This incident is the result of one lone distressed person, and has nothing to do with the right of every person to bear arms."
to use this tragedy in a twisted way to support their agenda.
The fact that it took them that long may mean that they are getting sloppy? One can only wish...
We have WAY too many militant nutballs in this country and they all have different agendas and targets. It's getting crazy. Anti: Gay, Jew, Black, Immigrant, Hispanic, Abortion/Life, etc...
We may have freedom of speech, but we need to deny them weaponry and vehicles and just about everything except their mouths. They can walk everywhere and talk all they like.
Her husband gets together with guys he went to school with (all retirement age now) and all they do is talk smack about blacks, Latinos, etc. I mean, really. These guys all made a lot of money, are sitting in God's Waiting Room, had religious educations, are churchgoers, and are STILL upset over minorities. Need I tell you they all watch Fox News and listen to the Rushster?
and when they have that heart attack or stroke, they will probably be taken care of by a Phillipino (sp?) nurse while their room is cleaned by a person of Hispanic origin. Interesting, that guys who really have it all are filled with so much anger.
OK, I understand that we shouldn't automatically assume anything even though it should be obvious the shooter must be a gay homosexual transvestite socialist communist atheist tree-hugging liberal.
They're all like that.
... but apparently NOT a liberal "gun-grabber"....
I left out the part about endorsing abortions for all.
in 1920.
an 89 year old nutjob...
NBC news is saying he is suspected of having ties to a white supremacy group.
There's a freakin' shock.
this is only an "isolated incident".
Yeah, until the next one.
Oh...of course. None of these killings are connected.
They are simply lone loons who simply frequent the same supremacists groups, hold the same supremacists beliefs, attend the same supremacists meetings, etc etc.
Nary a thing to connect them.
unless you account for o'lielly, speck, limpballs, hammity, and other like them...
That a man almost 90 years old was able to bring a freakin' shotgun close enough to two security guards and open fire before they could wrestle him down??
Guess the museum should have hired some security guards from Blackwater. Oops, I mean Xe. Those guys are on their toes!
Eh, it was probably easier for an 89 year old man to walk in without being suspected. Who ever thinks Grandpa is going to open fire?
...and was way back in the 90's, way before the other museums on the Mall had enhanced security (metal detectors, etc.)
It sounds like this man walked in the front door (just up to security) and started shooting. That security was able to neutralize him as fast as they did says to me they were on the ball.
In fact when I used to visit DC (in simpler times, pre 9/11) I used to bitch about their security and what a pain it was to get through.
Not any more.
I understand he has connections to a white supremacist group. Anyone hear that?
from who do you get this?
i wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that this is the case, but we should stick to fact based statements...
and saying the cops say he does have connections with "anti government or white supremacy organizations."
and google searches of his name show postings on their websites...
I heard it from NBC news via tv on a crawl.
A TV in a bar?
A little early isn't it?
Or Paris...
keys.
Oh ysb, you know what I mean. Now Ricky is going to bummed that you caught that before he did.
it would not surprise me if PoP could only crawl.
Are you kidding? I'm lucky to be crawling in the morning. Mostly I just stumble along until I really wake up about noon.
Same here. I don't really "wake up" until around 2pm.
I have to get up at 4:45 am everyday.
So do I. But then I take a leak and I can put my pants on.
As long as you are getting up that early anyway, could you take my dog out so that I don't have to do it?
He's too busy crawling beneath the pay toilet door.
I usually go in their sink.
It's always five o'clock somewhere.
Damned straight. Now if I could only find exactly where that somewhere is.
http://www.holywesternempire.org/page2.html
Here is a piece:
"In 1981 Von Brunn attempted to place the treasonous Federal Reserve Board of Governors under legal, non-violent, citizens arrest. He was tried in a Washington, D.C. Superior Court; convicted by a Negro jury, Jew/Negro attorneys, and sentenced to prison for eleven years by a Jew judge. A Jew/Negro/White Court of Appeals denied his appeal. He served 6.5 years in federal prison"
That is the alleged shooter describing himself.
He should be 89 years old.
always keepin the white man down!
they might not exhibit such anger in the jury box.
let those words sink in...
So not is this old fart, a racist, anti-semitic asshole...he may be a Dominionist as well...why am I not surprised?
But he describes himself as being President of his college chapter of SAE. That explains a lot to me.
n/t
aha..only the oldest southern fraternity.
on a Motor Oil tin. It stands for Sigma Alpha Epsilon.
that had fraternities...that's not something I ever bothered to keep up with.
And oil hasn't been in tins since...well, eons.
Our mechanics have SAE on their shirts, but it ain't no frat badge, lol!
LnM, it's a fraternity with the college Greek system.
check the post immediately above yours.
The College Greek system has never been on my radar.
Just to make sure it's clear: That's Sigma Alpha Epsilon, not the Society of Automotive Engineers. The latter is a perfectly respectable professional society and standards-setting body. The former... not so much.
The Society of Automotive Engineers, is the SAE I'm familiar with.
I could never be a Dominionist
Domino's Pizzas suck.
so does all franchise pizza.
In order to pass the gun ownership test you must be so sane that you realize guns are insane would never own one.
If that's you, then you are legally allowed to own a gun. Everybody else just has to get by without them.
OK, can we finally, officially take note of those boneheads in the media who are inciting this crap? Are you listening, FCC? Attorney General Holder? FBI?
When Beck and Hannity and Rush Dimbaulb and O'Reilly and Michelle Malkin and Ann Coulter start spewing hate and crap and calling on elected officials and doctors and liberals and gays and lesbians and judges and members of ethnic minorities to be shot, poisoned and eliminated as the scourge or "cancer" (in Beck's words) of this country, can we finally fine their employers? Will they finally be fired? Can we finally prosecute under federal hate-speech statutes?
Is it time now?
It's waaay past time!
He is almost 90. In 1981 he tried to "arrest" the Federal Reserve.
He spent time in the slammer. He was nuts long before Rush has his first cyst popped for draft evasion.
about WHEN he started SHOOTING at people,
I get the impression he was on the Allied side then.
the American PT boat service during WWII has quite the story of shooting innocent, unarmed American citizens in the middle of public places.
My grandfather (a WWII vet) is probably spinning in his grave right now. That another WWII vet would shoot people in the Holocaust Museum--inside his own country--is wrong for so many reasons.
He also calims to have been in the advertisinbg business, but I doubt that will start people posting about what a tragic surprise this latter fact is.
Wassat?
};)>
the alleged ties to white supremacist groups by the suspect, and the increase in the incendiary rhetoric by public figures who pander to a target audience, which counts said extremists groups as its members... both factors must be clearly be considered not only unrelated but absolutely irrelevant to the event at hand, simply because... well... the suspect was old.
Duhhhh.
nothin to see here...
Then report back when and on whose FOX program he got these views.
http://www.holywesternempire.org/
methinks it got taken down.
Whatever happened to the reichwing being shocked, shocked I tell you that there was evidence of future domestic terrorist attacks in America from the right?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gf8NK1WAOc&fe...
say it's all part of a terrorist plot, like they did with the tragic shooting of the recruiters in arkansas.
but now that it appears he's a racist white guy, he's of course just a lone actor. nothing to see here. move along. let's talk about how mean david letterman is to sarah palin...
I am surprised he can still walk unassisted.
Any chance it was an attempted SBC?
I'll bite: what's "SBC?"
suicide by cop
Thanks. If it was, I'd think he would choose someone other than a private security guard, like the Capitol Police or DC Police.
It's also my phone service.
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