This isn't about debt or deficits -- Republicans just want a reason to impeach Obama
Not very many people seem to have caught the drift of this recent Glenn Beck rant, which was noted at Media Matters for its classic Beckian illogic, with the Mad Hatter declaring that if we can't use Hitler analogies in "logical conversation," then "We are going to be a society of gas chambers!"
What he and his sidekick were talking about, though, was comparing the Obama administration to Hitler and the Nazis in the event the president decides to simply invoke the 14th Amendment and raise the debt ceiling by executive order. Because then, you see, he would just be a dictator.
This is the narrative that's gradually building on the Right as a counter-narrative to the obvious point that if Obama uses the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling, it will be because Republicans in Congress failed to act. No, instead, it will be because he is intent on seizing dictatorial powers.
And for that, they will then argue, he must be impeached.
Here's the scenario. The House GOP pushes for completely unserious Boehner plan (including a balanced budget amendment) that they know will be vetoed; they then filibuster the Reid plan in the Senate, forcing Obama to invoke a 14th Amendment executive prerogative, which they will then turn around and impeach him for.
Far-fetched? I hope so. But every time you think you have reached the end of Republican extremism, they manage to move further out of the solar system.
It's not really that far-fetched, considering that Republicans have been mouthing the I-word with great lust for some time now. Last we heard, they wanted to impeach him over Libya.
If he resorts to the 14th Amendment, they are already lining up to impeach him. Right-wing talk-show host Mark Levin said it explicitly two weeks ago:
If Barack Obama attempts to destroy the Separation of Powers doctrine, if he intends to seize Congressional power when it comes to borrowing and spending despite the plain wording of Article 1 Section 8 Clause 2. In other words if he’s going to violate his oath of office…then he needs to be impeached.
…
Should he attempt to seize explicit Congressional power, we’ve got to make a case that we don’t like dictators in this country and that we will not accept dictators in this country. There’s not even a colorable argument that can be made that justifies the President of the United States seizing for himself the authority to “borrow money on the credit of the United States.” And should Chuck Schumer continue to urge this and should the President do it, then Chuck Schumer should be expelled from the United States Senate when the Republicans take it back over as they will.
We already know that Republicans believe it's smart political strategy to destroy the economy so that it can be blamed on Obama. They're willing to throw the country into economic ruin just in the hopes that it will work to their political advantage.
And if the president stops them? They will make him pay.
and every one of those murderers in congress knows it.
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
It will simply fail in the Senate while GOP has months to spin his "crimes" in the press.
we have now?
Damn, if I were Pres, I would relish the fight! Another bullshit impeachment would be the Repubs death knell! Will he do it? Nah.
Like FDR, I WELCOME THEIR HATRED!
Addendum: It appears Baracks honneymoon(ers)is over.
Unfotunatley Obama cowers from their hatred. Now FDR was a LEADER. Obama needs to read more FDR and less Lincoln.
Besides, he's all for "Shared Sacrifice." We know what that means, and one things for sure, it ain't shared.
If Obama had been president during the Civil War, he'd have reached a compromise with the South and let them keep HALF of their slaves. We don't need a Great Negotiator, especially if he's as crappy a horse trader as Barrack Obama.
Always bed wetting threats from the bully Reslug-teabaggers, but then the uncaring morons are certainly bent on destroying our country. Bring on the fight.
have democrats in Washington who actually want to fight it.
had the slightest reason to. They figure it would soil his presidency like it did Clinton's.
But it will only work if Obama stops listening to the DLC types and starts listening to the "Professional Left".
Progressives have been right on every issue and Obama desperately needs to start paying attention and join the fight and stop trying to be "the only adult in the room" at all costs.
obama is not listening because he is bent over
with his head so low while the gop/teabaggers
are dry humping him. he is not a true democrat,
but a republican. why else would he give away
our safety nets for the middle and poor, the elderly,
our children's educational future, and the unemployed
before he even starts to negotiate with these TREASONOUS
gop/teabagger domestic terrorists?
The President should invite impeachment from these clods. Clintons poll numbers went up during impeachment, and he actually did the dirty deed - Obama is just trying to save the country from ruin. By invoking the 14th amendment he's upholding the Constitution.
What is the Republican argument going to be? -We want to impeach Obama for saving the country while we were trying to destroy it.-
Harry Chapin wants you.
I didn't know that.
In addition, these Right-Wingers own the Corporate Mainstream Media and the United States Supreme Court.
I only wish the Democrats had all the power.
We wouldn't be in this mess.
Don't know why it ended up in the wrong place. Hope this one doesn't.
so many rumors changing each and every minute.
what happened with "we don't negotiate with terrorists?"
currently it looks like the oligarchy and the teabaggers
are going to get what they want and the rest of us get FUCKED.
when are the democrats going to pull up their pants so
the gop/teabaggers don't think they want to get fucked
like criminals in prison?
we need real FDR men as democrats and not
PEEWEE HERMANS.
.
Democrats had all the power for a year and they still whined about how they couldn't get anything done because of the meanie republicans.
Republican accomplish far more than democrats do even when they are the minority party.
Democrats just aren't willing to actually fight.
The Republicans just use procedure to block the Democrats from accomplishing anything.
Their claim to fame is masters of obstruction and America be damned.
. . . (the filibuster without cost or debate) were kept in place by Democrats.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
Your complaint about Democrats is that they failed to stop Republican obstructionism.
That's my complaint too.
Nice to see we agree.
But I'm going a step further: Democrats enable and make use of Republican obstructionism as a handy excuse.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
The Republicans invaded Iraq on a lie, gave huge tax breaks to the most wealthy and corporations, started torturing people, destroyed the middle class.
They have accomplished a lot.
traitors
much time accomplishing nearly nothing in the last few months.
Where are the JOBS??
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
When are we going to do something to actually STOP these people? They have the system on their side. Playing within that same system isn't going to work, so I ask again...when are we going do something to actually STOP these people?
I think it's almost time to start thinking the unthinkable.
Beastiality?
YOU certainly thought of that one fast, cafeenMan.
Sure they want to destroy him. They haven't made any secret of that. Unfortunately Obama's gutless, appeasing ways have enabled them to accomplish much of their twisted, party first-America last agenda. They have pushed him around and imposed their will on him, even when they were in a substantial minority. It's infuriating.
Obama is not cut out to be an executive. He's never going to be able to assert himself and that is why his presidency will go down in history as a series of half-measures when full measures were possible, what might have beens and total failures.
You really buy into this "right" wing power thing. All your posts show that. I won't read anymore of your posts, liberal as they may be, but too cynical and chicken little for my taste. Dems are in power, remember?
Is it the 21st century yet?
The Democrats are in power? You could have fooled me as the GOP is getting 110% of what they want and the Democrats are getting...zip.
I think that the person who buys into the right wing power thing is Obama. And yes, I'd say that when a Democratic president is offering, OFFERING, to cut Social Security and Medicare even as the crooked bankers he bailed out and the millionaire class whose taxes are lower than Reagan deemed proper are drowning in their bloated profits wealth that yes, the sky is falling.
I just expected more from a Democratic president and the Democratic Party and I am outraged and I don't apologize for that. Maybe if more rank and file Democrats were outraged as well we could at least limit the damage that these quislers are inflicting on the people.
It's not because they don't have the power. They don't have the will. If the shoe were on the other foot, Republicans would still be getting everything they wanted.
Think about it.
And not only are Democrats getting what they and their bankster sponsors want, they also get to blame the Republicans for it while all the time claiming to share voters' "concerns."
It wasn't Republicans that put "entitlements" on the chopping block.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
while he was a candidate. Rather than him playing into their hands I think they are playing into his. He is using them for cover while he dismantles what is left of the New Deal. No one wants to pay back the SS trust fund that has been looted. Whoever delivers this honey pot to Wall St will be handsomely rewarded.
Everything that goes on in government today (in public) is charade and deception. All of the so-called "crises" we've had in the last few decades were designed of, by and for the corpora-fascists and the banksters, including the fake "wars" on everything. Check the accounts - we've been robbed!
The folks with all the zeros after the big numbers in their off-shore accounts are the ones who pull all the strings of all our pols and SCOTUS, too. And, we the People, are too dumb or too afraid to pull back the curtain and demand: a) the truth; and b) government reform on a large scale.
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
Has anybody else noticed that everything Beck says is going to happen never happens?
...for every act of a Democrat.
"The constitution is just a piece of paper."
Obama doesn't have the balls to stand up to anything or anyone. He won't invoke the 14th Amendment (even though he should), and he'll end up giving in to the Republicans as usual (even though he shouldn't). I was very reluctant to get on the "Obama must go" train, but this whole debt ceiling debacle has convinced me to buy a ticket and ride that train to the end of the line. About the only way I'll ever vote for him again is if no truly viable Democratic opponent appears to challenge him and he wins the nomination, because no matter how disappointing his presidency has been, having the Banana Republicans in charge, with absolutely no road blocks in the way of them steamrolling their fascist agenda over the country, would be an unmitigated disaster.
"Whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, the Republicans are not the least bit interested in solving it. They are interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it."
ALAN GRAYSON democrat from florida
has the balls to fight for what's right and for
the American middle and poor of this country.
i vote he be the democratic challenger to
replace obama when the democrats make
their selection for president for 2012.
obama gives everything away, he is afraid
to actually make decisions of strength.
Alan Grayson can't win. I'll vote for him if he's nominated but he's viewed as too extreme by independents.
They all lean strongly towards one party or the other. Their "swing" vote has very little "swing" in it.
Are you aware that he served one term and was voted right back out the door ? He or even a Bernie Sanders would be way too far left for the lame brains in this country . You can lead them to water but you can't make the jackasses drink it .
I saw it right here on C&L.
Normally I would agree but he's stood up them so far this time hasn't he ? Makes me nervous though , McConnell says they're close to an agreement now , if Obama and the Dems agree to anything they put on the table you can bet we're getting screwed. Hopefully he will get a clean bill in the last hours .
Standing up to them would be insisting on a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling, like they have every single time in the past, not cave in to them on cutting entitlements and not raising revenue to combat the economic crisis. This isn't about him "bringing a knife to a gunfight"; it's about him bringing a teddy bear while they're bringing a nuclear warhead. He's a gutless coward who caves like a Kleenex-papered house in a hurricane.
"Whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, the Republicans are not the least bit interested in solving it. They are interested in two things, and two things only: making you afraid of it, and telling you who's to blame for it."
Ooooooo... boogie boogie.
Oh. Golly gee.
The bad guys will impeach.
OOoooooooooo... boogie boogie.
Why don't you get some sense!
An impeachment is merely an indictment. Senate conviction is a non-starter.
That sound and fury would signify nothing but GOP desperation.
This nation has had enough.
The backlash would be furious.
And, more importantly, both Obama's rediscovery that Balls matters, and the impeachment, would energize his base, and a majority of independents, like nothing else possibly could.
Invoke the 14th Amendment.
Pray for impeachment.
Then watch the irreversible fracture of the GOP, and the rebirth of the Democratic Party.
Christianity. What a damnable disgrace.
Agreed.
Harry Chapin wants you.
He's still a very popular guy among a majority of Americans (still over 50% in the polls). The Republicans and their bastard stepchildren in the Tea Party are too busy pandering to their die hard 20%ers to realize that this would only rally the rest of the country against them. Civil Rights organizations would have a field day with this one. Even people that are on the fence about Obama would see this as one party ganging up on him and and support him simply on principle. Every republican that votes to impeach could automatically count on losing their state in the next election.
I guess I WOULD like to see them try it.
Obama's approval rating over the last two weeks of polls averaged 44.1% (with a low of 40%), and his disapproval rating averaged 50.1% (with a high of 55%).
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other...
That hardly means the nation would support impeachment, but since a last minute deal seems likely, it probably won't matter much anyway.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
He still has it over the Republicans. The point is, it isn't going to make them any more popular with the majority of Americans, especially if their little stunt causes the economy to tank.
But the already tanked economy looks to be getting worse by the deal this fearmongering appears to have made possible. Impeachment was and is highly unlikely, but talking about it stokes the fear and makes Republicans look bad while Democrats sell us out.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
The debt ceiling fiasco is a created crisis. The Democrats could have easily raised the ceiling last year - especially when they deepened perceptions of a crisis by approving more tax cuts for the wealthy just last December. But they didn't. It's not like they were somehow surprised that the debt ceiling could be used as a political weapon - Obama himself refused to vote for a debt ceiling increase in 2006 to score political points, and the language he used was nearly identical to that being spouted to so-called Tea Partiers today.
The Democrats not only saw this coming; they wanted this "crisis." Obama himself views it as an "opportunity to do something big and meaningful." How do we know? He said so.
Yet this is all about impeachment? For Obama "invoking" the 14th Amendment? (Apparently the Constitution isn't binding unless Obama invokes it) That seems rather strange as the White house itself has seriously worked to undermine the claim of 14th Amendment validity. In fact, the White House "categorically" ruled it out.
But we're supposedly examining what Republicans "want." It's a quite convenient subject as what anybody "wants" can be pretty much anything the writer or speaker wants. The Republicans "want" a pony. Saddam Hussein "wants" WMD. Muslims "want" Sharia law. Barack Obama "wants" a Socialist state. Palestinians "want" to end Israel's existence. See how easy it is? All you have to do is find some member of a group, or associate member, or talk radio host look at what they've said and run with it.
It's doubtful this is some 11th dimensional chess game by "the Tea Party" to impeach Obama. But hey, whatever stokes the fear, and makes Republicans look bad so that Obama and the Democrats look good by comparison.
Isn't that what is really "wanted" here?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
It's been reported that White House lawyers came to the conclusion that using the fourteenth would not be lawful , would be unconstitutional , apparently there is a contradiction in the Constitution .
. . . seem to reach whatever conclusion the President wishes them to.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
against him. Don't you know he has our best interests at heart?
And for that I'll add a huge SNARK.
This last minute deal is shaping up even worse than I had feared.
See Digby on the the deal shaping up even as we're told it's some grand conspiracy to impeach Obama.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
basically tell the right to go to hell - he'd get my vote. The more I witness his Presidency the more I see the Titanic in slow motion.
If he caves on this, and he certainly will, I see No Reason Whatsoever to vote for him again. None, it won't matter who runs on the republican ticket because our elected democratic President is just a wolf in sheeps clothing - or is it the other way around.
to the end though. Just reading the first half was enough to know what an absolute disaster this is going to be.
Why would republicans agree to a Super Panel when they hate government? How could we ever trust the democratic appointees to the Panel? Will they all be blue dogs? I think we know the answer to that one already.
What is their definition of shared sacrifice? Will a 5% reduction in the defense budget with it's billions (or trillions) of dollars in redundant programs be seen as equal to a 5% reduction in Medicare? I think we know the answer to that one as well.
How about that trigger? Either vote in the affirmative for whatever recommendations arise from the Panel OR they'll make the cuts without your consent. How fuc*ing democratic is that?
How come a good deal of my posts end with "this country is screwed?" What a shame too, in 2008 we elected someone to take care of this bullshit. We've been had.
We've been had.
Corruption favors the wealthy.
There is no chance that the Senate would vote to convict, so it would just be one more example of the lunatics operating outside the bounds of sanity. The Republicans impeached Clinton, not for absolutely no reason, but for an inadequate reason. Then, the next time there is a Democratic president, they impeach him because he fills in for a completely dysfunctional Congress. In both cases the impeachment goes nowhere and Republicans just emphasize how despicable they are. Eventually, the American people might even realize what's going on.
I know the Republicans are stupid but I think they might know that bringing impeachment proceedings against Obama would open up a can of worms that they could never close.
Lower the retirement age.
They're radicals , insane , DO NOT under estimate them .
. . . have been loyal to the promise of not allowing Obama to govern like a Democrat; but they a sealing the promise that the next Republican will have no choice but to govern like a Democrat.
Obama's not going to use the 14th Amendment.
There's going to be more of the elaborate Kabuki danced followed by a deal highly favorable to Wall Street, with, maybe, one or two things Obama can use to save face.
Obama uses the fourteenth , the Reich goes banana's and screams for impeachment , it is a no brainer .
to know that he can invoke the fourteenth amendment, but the question is, does he have the guts to do it? His whole career seems to be go along to get along, I really doubt if he's ever been in a real fight in his life.
After this fiasco, all I can say is that the country can't be held in limbo for an impeachment theatrical to be played out. Maybe he's a better man than I have sometimes given him full credit for. We can't continue with the "bread and circuses" for the masses while nothing gets done. That's what happened during Nixon, again during Clinton. It's a nightmare the country doesn't need.
other than he's still that 'uppity black man who thinks he should be president' .....it isn't like he's really fought policies that they like actually.......
just heard another damn R telling Alex Witt that the wealthy shouldn't be taxed higher because they've 'earned' what they have...
jesusgodalmighty already...like people who've paid into Social Security haven't earned THAT???!!!!! (not to mention all those wealthy who haven't actually EARNED ss from working dirty meanial jobs most likely get ss anyway...
they want everything. and then some.
(And I don't mean w...)
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
A few heads of state need to removed (from the neck up)
i agree, this is not about debts nor deficits
but, it is silly to think that this whole soap opera was an effort to impeach obama
this is really about foisting further right wing economic policies on the country. the deficit, the debt, the partisan sniping are all a distraction from what is really going on.
so that the rich can pillage the last of resources, have a docile frightened work force, and pay little or no taxes. They stink.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2011/07/whit...
Corruption favors the wealthy.
does it really matter which, both are punishable. the senate minority leader (mitch the bitch)
says that he is determined to make Obama a "one term President", that says to me that, even if it is for the betterment of the people and the country he would vote against it. that to me is treason. holding the american economy hostage over any hike in revenue is terrorist. no matter which.... republicans need to be impeached/recalled. I have tried to defended the President on so may issues, i just can't do it anymore. Mr. President are you with us or against us. in my opinion it is the latter. time for the President to put his big boy pants on and fight for the people that put him in office not just the people that paid for it.
I've always kinda had the notion that the people who "paid" to put him in office, would be likely to "take him out" of office if he didn't kow-tow to their 'requests'.....if you get my drift.
Call me crazy...
"Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of Stupidity" - Frank Leahy
On Presidential agendas
"Parachutes are allowed in checked or carry-on baggage, but may not be worn in flight."
---Southwest Airlines
Here:
Of course, they can also wave around pictures of Glenn Beck and Mark Levin.
Is there a Democratic Frank Luntz distributing talking points to friendly blog posters?
Corruption favors the wealthy.
What is he waiting for?
It would a good thing for Biden to start declaring some incredibly socialist, pro-citizen, anti-business, pro-Bill of Rights, and anti-war sentiments at this point.
i say "use the fourteenth, luke"...let them impeach...use the (dem-friendly) senate trial as a bully pulpit to deconstruct rad-right phony deficit-reduction plan as actual plan for democracy destruction. rightwing brains think that everybody thinks like they think...what a great opportunity to expose the terrible flaws of right-think on a world stage...remember how many people watched clinton's impeach trial? TONS!
the "I" word since jan. 20, 2009. the mere fact that obama got elected was sufficient cause, in their version of the constitution, to impeach him. this is very similar to the south's reaction to lincoln's election. then, the southern ruling class went totally off the deep end, and seceded. secession not being a really viable option these days (even dumbass rick perry knows this), they've been angling for something, anything, no matter how ludicrous, to support articles of impeachment. to the point that following what the constitution actually says now becomes potentially (in their eyes) an impeachable act.
i believe the republican party is now well and truly suffering from mass psychosis.
When I first read this post, I decided to create something for my own blog. Long story, centered on the consequences of having upgraded to Mac's Lion, but I finally got it posted. Here's the link.
Impeachment would be a foolish and futile endeavor, and most Republicans know it. Only a handful of right wing blowhards such as DeMint, in an effort to patronize the naive morons in the tea party, rant about impeachment every few weeks.
However, the Congressional GOP believes that if they can undermine the economic recovery, including blocking efforts to raise the debt ceiling in a time-critical fashion, then the pain felt by the average American will translate into a drop in Obama's approval ratings.
It's as McConnell has said on numerous occasions since Obama won the 2008 election -- the number one priority of the Republican Party is not reducing unemployment, or dealing with Middle East policy, or even reducing the federal deficit or national debt -- it's to do whatever is necessary to ensure that Obama is not reelected in 2012.
ti impeach Obama. But if they can't they've already achieved much of their goal. The government has been so paralyzed by what has always previously been a non-issue issue that nothing else is being done. Except, of course, the occasional House Republican nonsense.
..."[Robert George] has parlayed a 13th-century Catholic philosophy [the natural law theory] into real political influence. Glenn Beck, the Fox News talker and a big George fan, likes to introduce him as "one of the biggest brains in America," or, on one broadcast, "Superman of the Earth."
Foreigners, visitors from another planet and Americans living in a bubble of reasonable or educated people might not know this but the reality is that the debt ceiling confrontation is by, for and the result of America's evangelical Christian control of the Republican Party. --Frank Schaeffer
This was published in 2009 as an anti-Obama manifesto, and many far right Evangelical leaders signed on...
...Change a word or two and his words could have been lifted from my father's 1981 book A Christian Manifesto, or for that matter a few decades later, from statements by the so-called Tea Party or those by Michele Bachmann, or Robert George or his follower Glenn Beck.
Study the symptoms not the virus...
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