Lou Dobbs and the key to the immigration debate: Is it amnesty, or a path to citizenship?
By David Neiwert Saturday Oct 17, 2009 4:00pm
Rep. Luis Gutierrez, the Illinois Democrat, kick-started the coming immigration debate this week by delivering a 10-point plan for immigration reform that looks like a solid progressive start:
Pathway to legalization for undocumented workers
Professional and effective border enforcement
Smart and humane interior enforcement
Protecting workers
Verification systems
Family unity as a cornerstone of our immigration system
Future flows of workers
AgJOBS
DREAM Act
Promoting immigrant integration
[Go read the details.]
Then he went on Lou Dobbs' CNN program to discuss the plan with an obviously skeptical Dobbs -- who, of course, had to whine about how he was being attacked as a racist, just for promoting an extremist agenda.
In the process, he makes clear just what the primary cry of the nativists in the upcoming debate will be: "Amnesty!"
DOBBS: Fundamental to the question becomes, is it every illegal immigrant, is it unconditional amnesty, and what will be the impact of that? And those are issues. Think about it, we're here in 2009, some left wing ethnocentric interest groups are calling for my firing from CNN because I'm quote unquote a racist. I could obtain purity in a moment if I would just simply embrace open borders and sponsor illegal immigration. That's the kind of distortion that is not helpful. The reality is, we have some basic questions that people are avoiding asking. And if I may, let me ask a couple and see how we go and go forward. One, should every illegal immigrant in this country receive amnesty?
Gutierrez, however, is up to the job, and gives a clear and sensible answer:
GUTIERREZ: I believe that every undocumented worker in this country who can come forward and show that they've violated no other law except the immigration law, which they used breaking the immigration law to arrive in this country, that's it. No other felony, no other criminal record. That they are sustentative, they got family, they've got a job, they've been working, and they're ready to prove that by bringing forward and going through a very rigorous background check, we should give them an opportunity. Does that mean they go directly to permanent residency and directly to citizenship? No, we have to earn that too. But I think we can give them a program of five, six years which they continue to work, pay taxes, learn English, civics, become fully incorporated and at the end, if they fill the test, then we'll let them stay. But I want them to earn because in the interim period, many Americans say they're here and they're not paying their fair share. My program says, let them pay their fair share. Because we don't have political will, we don't have the programs to deport them, why don't we integrate them? There will be undesirable immigrants to this country, which we can weed out of the program very easily. We can have a set of rules.
It was a good start, if the objective is to make this a rational debate. And certainly, that's what progressives will want to do, because they have the facts and hard realities on their side.
Not that it means we'll actually get a rational debate. The Dobbses seem intent on ignoring the facts and whipping up people's fears, and we can expect that's what we'll get from the Fox crew as well.
Still, anticipating that, progressives need to find a common set of principles for advancing real immigration reform that works and makes valued citizens out of marginalized immigrants, brings them into the labor force (especially as union members) and taxpayers. Because there is going to be a lot of divisive crap thrown up in this debate, and lot of different and competing legislative plans. It will be important to keep our eyes on the prize.
To that end, Duke1676 at MigraMatters has put together a list of 25 principles for progressives in the immigration debate, including:
-- End policies that rely only on enforcement and deterrence as the sole means of regulating migration.
-- Address the root causes of immigration, and change US policy so that it doesn't foster and produce conditions that force hundreds of thousands of people each year to leave their countries of origin in order to simply survive.
-- Tie all current and future trade, military, and foreign aid agreements to not only worker protections both here and abroad, but also to their ability to foster economic progress and social justice for the working class and poor in sender nations.
-- Formulate a reasonable, humane, fair and practical method for determining the levels of immigration going forward. Establish an independent commission free from the pressures of political expediency and business interests to review all the pertinent data and set admission numbers based on labor, economic, social, and humanitarian needs.
-- Provide a path to legalization for all current undocumented immigrants living and working in the US, free of restrictions based on country of origin, economic status, education, length of residency, or any other “merit based” criteria.
-- Secure the borders by first ensuring that the vast majority of new immigrants have the ability and opportunity to legally enter the country through legal ports of entry by increasing the availability and equitable distribution of green cards. This would curtail the flow of migration through illegal channels. Only after that, should enforcement begin to ensure compliance, or any work to physically secure the border take place.
And finally, the bottom line:
Recognize that immigration is a vital part of maintaining a healthy and vibrant America. It is what has set this nation apart from all others since its inception. To close our borders to new immigrants is to cut off the lifeblood that has always made this nation grow and prosper.
These are good starts. Progressives are setting the table for a rational debate on immigration. We're inviting conservatives to join us. But we're not holding our breaths.
Below: Another video of Rep. Gutierrez outlining his plan.
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"It is what has set this nation apart from all others since its inception." Because, of course, everyone knows that no other country has embraced immigrants from every country on earth.
But to be overloaded with other countries jobless is something else.
I believe just as I did with Bush , Cheney , Rumsfeld and the other criminals which took illegal actions and policies should be prosecuted under our laws..
If you can not see the overloading and destruction of our country by these actions,, then that is your sight.
well, lou dobbs......
when a dog craps on the public easeways, it has to be
cleaned up and the gop is not being good citizens, so
the democrats and independents are ardent and focused.
they will remove
youthis crap whenever we encounter it.because of you, we have all had to step in too much
dog crap......time for you to vanish. we have the
bags to scoop you up and dispose of you at the exit.
But he can keep his job.
Hey Lou, brain cancer! How about it!
OMG, he should see a proctologist immediately!
I think it was somewhere between 2003 and 2005. He took on the cause of the workers vs. the corporations and the rich. He looked into abuse of workers. He blasted corporations.
Then, either somone got to him, or he saw a bright, shiny light that distracted his attention and pumped up his ratings - illegal immigration. And off he went...
He became like the anti-UPS, who's motto is "What can brown do for you?" Dobbs: Here's what brown does TO YOU!
I sure he's not a native American, so my guess is there were probably some people in his family who came over, or stayed here, under questionable circumstances.
So, Lou, go do something anatomically impossible to yourself!
Since he's not a Native American, I'd say ALL of his ancestors were from abroad. And I'd be willing to bet none of them applied for citizenship with the people who were originally here, so that makes him and his whole fucking clan illegal immigrants, according to his own logic.
can attack him for his lies , BS and racist remarks , but as far as I am concern laws are laws and illegal is illegal..
We have a process of people interring our country and illegal is not one of them.
This is the trouble with the republicans and now the democrats in this administration they do not believe in enforcing our constitution and our laws.
This is why Bush , Cheney , Rumsfeld , Rice , Rove and all the criminals from Bush's administration are still walking the streets and not in JAIL>>
a step backward
I thought ICE took away that jackass's authority to enact immigration arrests?
Strengthen the unions
And prosecute business that practice such illegal actions.
Yes Socialist Corporations, those privatize the profits socialize the losses, how come this Hypocrite isn't slamming the Phonies that he represents, oh yeah that cuts into PROFITS, and AMERICAN workers cost to much. if there is no way they can FIRE this Racist Fascist Socialist Anti American piece of Garbage can he have a very very serious accident its nice to dream. Both these Idiots do not have a clue.
Socialism is fine when it benefits the rich. It's only when it's good for the other 95% of us that it's an abomination.
Shoring up and reinforcing labor unions would be a good thing to add to that list.
I would actualy shell out some pay-per-view bucks to watch Lou's Mexican-American Wife Debi being interviewed. I'd love to know what she things of his show, does she watch? What do her parents thing of this guy and his show?
And "Hey there Louie Lou-eye: In solidarity with my fellow humanics, I'd just like to say'kiss my Irish arse'"
A lot of the people that you call "illegals" were here a thousand years before we stumbled in. They travelled over wide areas before ther present border existed.
"Dobbs", eh? It's people like you who give the English a bad name.
Actually only a few hundred years.
They were essentially a servant class created by Spaniards who had children with the indigenous. Even though they were half-Spanish, they're European forbears had little use for them outside of the fields and ranches.
Ethnocentrism is the believe that one's ethnic (or cultural) group is superior to all other groups. This defines right wing thinking, feeling that white Christian Americans are superior to 'foreiners'.
Very odd he lables liberals ethnocentric- i thought what the right hated about the left was the fact liberals embraced multiculturalism..
OK if you say so Lou. And by the way my "ethnocentric interest group" is called HUMAN! And if you want to get more ethnocentric I'm caucasian. So I guess caucasian is one of the multitude of "ethnocentric interest groups" who are 'out to get you' so you're fucked I guess you frigging egocentric racist paranoid schizophrenic fuck.
Caucasian is a race not an ethnic group.
The Howard Stern Show for August 14, 2007
Howard started off the show by saying he was sitting in front of the CNN building in his limo, and saw Lou Dobbs talking with a friend. Lou was smoking a cigarette, and then immediately smoked another, and then three more. The whole time, Lou was having an animated conversation with his friend and getting excited when people recognized him. Robin said that no one ever talks about Lou's crazy cigarette addiction, which is weird to her, because she feels that it's a big personality flaw. Howard agreed, saying it was really weird.
and then Howard eat up Lou Dobbs b.s.
Dobbs would never, never attack Howard Stern!!!!
Dobbs only goes after those he feels safe attacking like politicians and others whom in their own interests or inability cannot really counter him.
Lou Dobbs is a blight on the human race.....Keep smoking Lou and by the way, Lou---BRUSH YOUR TEETH!!!!!
illegal immigration works to destroy legal immigration
it also has and continues to be used to destroy the middle class
come to socal and take a look at a typical construction site
where there were once working class whites and blacks, covered by union protections...there are now illegals, covered by no protection...just the way the corporatists love it
and we tried amnesty once before...almost everyone embraced reagan's amnesty program
it too was supposed to halt all illegal immigration and take illegals out of the shadows
worked great...didnt it?
doesnt help that all the great free trade agreements that we have signed have made life worse for those in 3rd world countries
" To close our borders to new immigrants is to cut off the lifeblood that has always made this nation grow and prosper." Come on man , cut with the crap , this isn't 1920 0r 1930 , the times and the circumstances are just a wee bit different now aren't they ? We were the greatest manufacturing / industrial country in the world , which made for the a strong middle class and a lot of jobs , now we make nothing , manufacturing and the jobs have been shipped out of the country so the corporations and the wealthy can profit all the more , I hate to be un-PC but this is hardly a time to encourage immigration and opening the flood gates especially when you consider that there are already how many million immigrants here illegally as it is . As Uncle Joe wrote "nobody wants to stop legal immigration" but a reality check and some common sense is in order , I mean how about the survival and well being and the quality of life of our own ? As it's going Mexico is the new model for the USA , the very very rich who control and own everything and the peasants , no middle class , Repug heaven , mission accomplished ! You are right on Uncle Joe .
The reason that we no longer have jobs are because they have been outsourced to those countries..
So we have outsourced our Manufacturing plants , jobs , given work visa to foreign to come into our country and take our jobs and now there if a flood of 20 to 30 million illegal immigrants coming into our country to take American jobs..
This is the reason we have no jobs while our wages and benefits have been cut to nothing now..
And we are still a nation which people come into or country.. But that is suppose to be by the legal laws we have not like Bush ran his administration <>
Just let Americans try to go to other countries illegally ,,, and see what happens to them.
With an actual unemployment rate in excess of 15%, The Man still whines that nobody wants his jobs except illegals.
Mohawk Carpets kept a sign at the Brownsville/Mexico border, offering relocation assistance to Mexican nationals. Shaw imported high school seniors from Mexico, and trained them in data processing in hotel rooms.
Carpet industry spokespeople insisted that Americans didn't want their jobs. On the contrary, when I was unemployed and driving thirty-five miles out of town to sleep on a relative's floor and hunt work, the waiting rooms were just about equally American and Hispanic.
Gourmet magazine ran an article on slavery in the South Florida tomato fields.
What proponents of illegal immigration "reform" want is slavery, not citizens of The Land of The Free. They want Mexican heroin, Mexican cocaine, Mexican meth, Mexican marijuana, and Americans addicted and getting welfare and food stamps so their remaining money can be utilized to pay for Mexican dope---or in prison for growing clean and violence-free American marijuana.
he would say-
no ******s. Brown or black.
Blither blather, or Mugga wugga?
We need workable solutions that will uplift our values and take us all forward together. So this is a great first step towards reform. Post 9/11, we have a situation where immigration agents can often arrest people without warrants, detain immigrants and even US citizens in inhumane conditions, and deport people without a fair trial. we need to keep the pressure on for reform that restores fairness and due process. For more stories on the issue and to take action go to www.restorefairness.org.
This hate the immigrant and hate Mexicans is out of the Ku Klux Klan and White Supremacists playbook.....
You better have a damn good reason for attacking many of these innocent and hard working people before you let your own racism and bigoted views out of your bodies and brains.
Yes, this Anti-Immigrant & Anti-Mexican Song comes right out of the KKK Playbook!!!
Do you want to be part of this hateful movement by attacking innocent and unassuming immigrants who are always told that America is a "free country" until they are met by racists and bigots?
The absolute ignorance on the effects of unchecked ILLEGAL immigration on the U.S. astounds me! It's not a moral issue, it's not a racial issue and it's not a humanitarian issue. It's been made a moral, racial and humanitarian issue by those with motives other than what's good for the U.S. as a whole.
Simply put, WE CANNOT ALLOW UNLIMITED IMMIGRATION TO THE U.S. We cannot sustain the sheer numbers of people that want to come here. It certainly didn't work for the native people of the America's. They were being hospitible and moral by helping the new arrivals, but learned too late that they had other motives.
The humanitarian, moral and racially responsible thing to do is to help these people stay in their countries. A very good video that demonstrates this point is available at: http://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/v... them develop entrapanureal endevors. We should help them develop their home economies. Help them change their own leadership to allow prosperity. That helps EVERYONE.
There is severe damage to the ecology of North America occuring right now. The numbers of people that are unnaturally adding to the population in the west is adding to an already critical water shortages. That in turn adds to problems with treating the waste water that comes out on the other end. The additional garbage that is created needs to be disposed of somewhere. The culture that exists in their own countries doesn't necessarily place the same emphasis on proper hazardous waste disposal, which quite often ends up in our environment which quite often pollutes ground water supplies, etc. Is this damage exclusively related to the ILLEGAL immigrants, no. But they do substantially add to the problem. Should we purposlly add to the problem?
The damage to our economy and society is already occuring. Too many legal and ILLEGAL immigrants do not assimulate into the U.S. society. Not to "take away their culture". Nobody is advocating that. They don't learn english, they don't participate in traditional American activities, and they don't intermingle with other citizens. By not assimulating into American society their allegance does not shift to America.
This phenomenon is especially acute with Mexicans. This is mostly due to the proximity to the border. Immigrants, both legal and ILLEGAL, from other countries mostly come here due to persecution, physical threats and lastly economical reasons. Mexicans, on the other hand, almost exclusively come to the U.S. for economic reasons. That fact brings the damage to our economy into the fray. They send huge amounts of our currency home to Mexico. Taking that cash out of our economy increases inflation (not the phony government inflation numbers, but the real inflation numbers we see when we go to the stores). The recipients spend that money in Mexico, purchasing products from third countries which skews trade deficits that already disadvantage the U.S. economy. That money is also lost to the U.S. economy that would naturally increase production in the U.S. and increase the number of production and manufacturing jobs inside the U.S. Additional damage to our economy is the damage to the natural progression of wages. By taking less pay than the native and legal citizens, ILLEGAL workers inadvertently depress wage increases. This is mostly due to desperation to get a wage (at any cost) and to a lesser extent the reliefs from paying taxes the rest of us are saddled with. One could argue that this is the fault of the employers, but that makes no sense whatsoever. These people are in business to make money. If they can get labor cheaper, they will continue to do so. That extra money may create a couple extra jobs, but at what cost to the rest of us?
What of the legal citizens that are put out of work? Most often these people are non-skilled or semi-skilled laborers. Do the readers of this blog know that we allow 125,000 legal immigrants into the U.S. EACH MONTH? Even those numbers are not sustainable! Considering we have been losing 250,000 jobs per month for much of the past year, we are losing ground constantly. Does that make any sense? Ask yourself, does it make sense that in 2007 nearly 25 percent of the populations of the average age “normal” workers (mostly ILLEGAL) of Mexico were employed in the U.S.?
What are the costs of crimes perpetrated by ILLEGAL aliens in the U.S.? This goes beyond monetary costs. What about the families with breadwinners that have been killed by ILLEGAL alien drunk drivers? What about families that have had members killed in gang warfare? What about the woman in the bay area that lost her husband and two sons to a previously convicted violent criminal that had been released by authorities in "sanctuary cities"? The costs of housing the convicted criminals that are in the U.S. ILLEGALLY are staggering. What could we be doing with that money now? Do you know that the California budget deficit could be almost erased by eliminating the costs of services to ILLEGAL aliens?
What are we going to do when we give them amnesty and make them citizens? Even using the conservative figure of 12 Million ILLEGALS currently in the U.S., it will leave us with potential of 50 Million new citizens when they bring their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc., etc., etc.
The pro-amnesty bloc wants us all to believe that we are being noble and moral giving citizenship to people that has entered our country ILLEGALLY. That it would be a humanitarian gesture to allow them to stay. They want us to believe there is zero impact. We need to open our eyes to the realities of what's going on.
The absolute ignorance on the effects of unchecked ILLEGAL immigration on the U.S. astounds me! It's not a moral issue, it's not a racial issue and it's not a humanitarian issue. It's been made a moral, racial and humanitarian issue by those with motives other than what's good for the U.S. as a whole.
Simply put, WE CANNOT ALLOW UNLIMITED IMMIGRATION TO THE U.S. We cannot sustain the sheer numbers of people that want to come here. It certainly didn't work for the native people of the America's. They were being hospitible and moral by helping the new arrivals, but learned too late that they had other motives.
The humanitarian, moral and racially responsible thing to do is to help these people stay in their countries. A very good video that demonstrates this point is available at: http://www.numbersusa.com/content/resources/v... them develop entrapanureal endevors. We should help them develop their home economies. Help them change their own leadership to allow prosperity. That helps EVERYONE.
There is severe damage to the ecology of North America occuring right now. The numbers of people that are unnaturally adding to the population in the west is adding to an already critical water shortages. That in turn adds to problems with treating the waste water that comes out on the other end. The additional garbage that is created needs to be disposed of somewhere. The culture that exists in their own countries doesn't necessarily place the same emphasis on proper hazardous waste disposal, which quite often ends up in our environment which quite often pollutes ground water supplies, etc. Is this damage exclusively related to the ILLEGAL immigrants, no. But they do substantially add to the problem. Should we purposlly add to the problem?
The damage to our economy and society is already occuring. Too many legal and ILLEGAL immigrants do not assimulate into the U.S. society. Not to "take away their culture". Nobody is advocating that. They don't learn english, they don't participate in traditional American activities, and they don't intermingle with other citizens. By not assimulating into American society their allegance does not shift to America.
This phenomenon is especially acute with Mexicans. This is mostly due to the proximity to the border. Immigrants, both legal and ILLEGAL, from other countries mostly come here due to persecution, physical threats and lastly economical reasons. Mexicans, on the other hand, almost exclusively come to the U.S. for economic reasons. That fact brings the damage to our economy into the fray. They send huge amounts of our currency home to Mexico. Taking that cash out of our economy increases inflation (not the phony government inflation numbers, but the real inflation numbers we see when we go to the stores). The recipients spend that money in Mexico, purchasing products from third countries which skews trade deficits that already disadvantage the U.S. economy. That money is also lost to the U.S. economy that would naturally increase production in the U.S. and increase the number of production and manufacturing jobs inside the U.S. Additional damage to our economy is the damage to the natural progression of wages. By taking less pay than the native and legal citizens, ILLEGAL workers inadvertently depress wage increases. This is mostly due to desperation to get a wage (at any cost) and to a lesser extent the reliefs from paying taxes the rest of us are saddled with. One could argue that this is the fault of the employers, but that makes no sense whatsoever. These people are in business to make money. If they can get labor cheaper, they will continue to do so. That extra money may create a couple extra jobs, but at what cost to the rest of us?
What of the legal citizens that are put out of work? Most often these people are non-skilled or semi-skilled laborers. Do the readers of this blog know that we allow 125,000 legal immigrants into the U.S. EACH MONTH? Even those numbers are not sustainable! Considering we have been losing 250,000 jobs per month for much of the past year, we are losing ground constantly. Does that make any sense? Ask yourself, does it make sense that in 2007 nearly 25 percent of the populations of the average age “normal” workers (mostly ILLEGAL) of Mexico were employed in the U.S.?
What are the costs of crimes perpetrated by ILLEGAL aliens in the U.S.? This goes beyond monetary costs. What about the families with breadwinners that have been killed by ILLEGAL alien drunk drivers? What about families that have had members killed in gang warfare? What about the woman in the bay area that lost her husband and two sons to a previously convicted violent criminal that had been released by authorities in "sanctuary cities"? The costs of housing the convicted criminals that are in the U.S. ILLEGALLY are staggering. What could we be doing with that money now? Do you know that the California budget deficit could be almost erased by eliminating the costs of services to ILLEGAL aliens?
What are we going to do when we give them amnesty and make them citizens? Even using the conservative figure of 12 Million ILLEGALS currently in the U.S., it will leave us with potential of 50 Million new citizens when they bring their fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc., etc., etc.
The pro-amnesty bloc wants us all to believe that we are being noble and moral giving citizenship to people that has entered our country ILLEGALLY. That it would be a humanitarian gesture to allow them to stay. They want us to believe there is zero impact. We need to open our eyes to the realities of what's going on.
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