Max Blumenthal on how the fanatical religious right has destroyed movement conservatism
By David Neiwert Saturday Sep 05, 2009 4:00pmOur friend Max Blumenthal has a great new book out titled Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party that explores the toxic effects that the religious right has had not just on the national discourse, but on movement conservatism itself.
Max discussed some of this in New York Times op-ed. Juan Gonzales of Democracy Now! has a terrific interview with Max that explores the matter in some depth:
Blumenthal: [James] Dobson is a fascinating figure, because although he’s leading what is widely considered a religious movement, he’s not a religious leader. He has no theological credentials. He’s not a preacher. What is he? He’s a child psychologist. And the way that he’s won so many followers is by, you know, doing radio shows about common, mundane problems, like bedwetting, for example, or dealing with a child that has, you know, issues with their sexuality, something like that. And he has a correspondence department in Focus on the Family that’s so large it occupies an entire zip code in Colorado Springs. People write in with their personal problems. He sends them—his workers send them Dobson-approved advice. After they get into the database that Dobson maintains, he bombards them with political mailings and slowly cultivates them into Republican shock troops. So Dobson has, you know, turned personal crisis into political resentment.
Where did Dobson’s fortune come from? How did he erect this empire? It came mainly from one book, which I quote from extensively in my book, Republican Gomorrah—Dare to Discipline, which is essentially a manual for corporal punishment, for beating your child. In this book, he says pain is a marvelous purifier that a child should be—that pain goes a long way with a child, that pain should be dispensed sufficiently enough to make a child cry, but then the child will crumple to your breast, and you should welcome the child with warm, open arms. This is a recipe for sadomasochism. And sadomasochism, as I discovered in—
JUAN GONZALEZ: And he saw himself originally as the antithesis to Benjamin—Dr. Benjamin Spock.
MAX BLUMENTHAL: Dr. Benjamin Spock, who tells you to basically pick your child up and cradle it. And, you know, I mean, I was—you know, for whatever it’s worth, I was raised along those guidelines. When your child’s crying, you pick up the child.
By creating a belt-wielding army of millions, Dobson created the next generation of Republican shock troops, who are more radical than before. And sadomasochism—I know this sounds a little strange—is what defines the essential character, you know, that—this is what—at least what I’ve discovered—of the Republican follower of today. They’re sadistic in that they want to lash out at deviants, at people who are weaker than them, homosexuals, immigrants, foreigners, socialists. At the same time, they’re masochistic. They are followers of a higher cause, of a strong leader, a magic helper like Dobson or George W. Bush or the macho Jesus archetype that they worship. And this is what defines this movement.
So many of the people that Dobson has been able to get close to and work with in the Republican Congress and in American culture have been viciously abused as children. And he understood that by advocating violence against children, deliberate violence, he was creating this sensibility, which would produce a radical generation of political followers.
Be sure to get your copy. It's a fascinating and enlightening read.
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You call that a movement?
Now here's a movement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbDiujuv6rQ
........... PUKIES planned to activate the crazies, then get cleanly away from the steaming pile of shit they created by using the DLC/Rahmie/AIPAC to totally take over the Democratic Party by divorcing them from 'issues' that were traditionally Democratic like Unions, Womens Rights, Anti-war, Gay rights, etc. It is Rahmie who kicks Kucinich to the curb, and Feingold (Wi), Teddy, Dr. Howard Dean, are only a tiny sampling of Rahm's handiwork. Count the DINO's and to add insult to injury he recruits Arlen Spector who doesn't want to face a primary challenger as a democrate!
Now, the crazies carry the reputation of being the 'issue' orientated rouge party of conservates, and it is even working to cleanse the minds of the crazies. Just let the hate show folks direct them to assinate O-bought-ma for them. This is truly dangerous. What the hell is that Hate Crime Bill supposed to cover besides AIPAC's ass???
More like bowel movement at this point.
Yea it bummed me out when the conservatives embraced the evangelicals. That's when I lost faith in the party but they had many faults before, I was just to young and naive to notice them.
Speaking of religion, I saw the funniest thing the other night at the casino. Being piped in on dozens of televisions overhead was Arnold Murray of the Shepard's Chapel preaching almost subliminally to all the sinful gamblers below. As if the casino was trying to tell their patrons not to gamble.
What do those same TV's show during the day? Fox News.
I tell establishments that Fox noise is offensive corporate state sponsored terrorism, and while I am spending my money in their establishment, I would prefer not to have to look at those GOP liars.
I have never had a business fail to honor my request. In fact, the waitresses are usually more than happy to oblige.
What do I tell them about the reverend?
Same thing. That's where I would start.
I think it would be amusing to see you try that at the country store near my house. Try it at lunch time when the oilfield workers are all there for the full effect. I doubt you would be met with such willingness.
of conservatism. it has always served conservatives well since Reconstruction.
"Dobson created a belt-wielding, bed wetting, sadomasochistic army of millions of Republican shock troops,"
Now that's quite the visual.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO-kfrG4fwQ
Pffft. Typical republican fact finding commission ys.
Hatred, Hatred, Hatred. No Individuality shall or will be toleratedand you folks thought I was kidding. These theocrats are dangerous also check out the Hate Monger Robertson oh yeah little publicized fact his father was a past Senator. Also NOTE these SCUM BAGS have NEVER SERVED in the MILITARY the COWARDLY EXCUSE is One Doesn't Have to Serve to be a good CITIZEN.
Please note these pieces of GARBAGE are the FIRST to destry a persons Character, this Countrys Foundation
I like Max Blumenthal, but dude, you don't have to say the name of your book 50 million times. Fire your media coach!
that's how Michael Medved sells his books. Have you ever heard his radio program?
After the first three times he said it I started to cringe. It was unseemly.
in his statement, "They're sadistic in that they want to lash out at deviants, at people who are weaker than them, homosexuals, immigrants, foreigners, socialists." What he said was condescending at best.
He might also have used the phrase "that they perceive as deviants." I think he might have alienated some people.
Dobson and His "Focus on the Family" is associated with the Prince/Backwater family. Well, that isn't surprising, is it?
kicked to the curb.
When I read that, I understood perfectly well that he used those words in the context of the Repubs' point of view. Meaning that they are the ones who think that way, not Blumenthal or the people he's speaking to. Not every nuance has to be spelled out in huge block letters, you know.
say. Apparently, you are content to assume you know what he means. Good luck with that.
The "they" was understood to be Republicans. If you're not hearing it, then I don't know what show you were listening to.
Most people do consider us (gays) deviants Blanche, they do. And we are weaker because few groups support us (when push comes to shove), and we are a minority population, that doesn't even have equal rights yet. I'd say he summed it up aptly. Immigrants: same deal, also foreigners.
Are you going to take that? Not to make it clear what you are saying leaves it open to interpretation by anyone. Did you get that? When he gets quoted by Glen Beck, perhaps you'll see the weakness in stating things that way. Like I said, "say what you mean, and mean what you say." Also, is he talking about people in those categories as individuals or groups? When this bites you in the ass, it won't be my fault as I don't have a dog in this hunt. Have it your way.
I'm just saying from life experience. I've been a member of all three groups. In fact, I am right now, all three. His phraseology was not ideal, but I knew what he meant. The people on the "fringes" are always attacked first.
As for taking stuff. well, I'm not American and have had a pretty free lifestyle.
the groups in question that you may have an emotional and or psychological response that I lack. I respect your opinions and beliefs, but I still think he could have phrased it more artfully.
It's always the same (in every country). No jobs means immigrants have them. Foreigners weren't born here so they don't count. Gays are the scourge of the earth and god wants us dead. Easy targets. Money problems? Blame the Jews. That's been done before!
This party has been taken over by the greedy followed by the people that want to believe. It is a shame that these people don't even understand what it is they are trying to do. The only thing you can say is these people are insane. facts mean nothing to them. If they have been told to believe that night is day they will act as though it is! Even as the sun is shining they will deny seeing it, because fox said it ain't so praise the lord.
republicanism really is a mental illness!
the religious right are the sickest of all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJhVM930YXY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmDnwgcxJQ&fe...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWqQ9uwqQxk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Yz40BexXVY
The religious right also seems to have a venomous attitude toward science , the arts and higher education in general.Advanced degrees make you suspect in their eyes. Their concept of faith requires subjugation of intellectual curiosity.
That is so true, and pathetic, poor bastards.
don't you know. Is that what the apple in the "Garden of Eden" story represents to them? Intelligence? That would explain a lot.
Actually the fruit was never identified. Some scholars think it was the pomegranate, which like the apple is red with a white interior. But the pomegranate is full of seeds, which you eat. I always get some around Samhain, because that's when they become in season.
The apple comes from multiple sources, and two were Greek, the apple island of the Hesperides of Hera, and also when Hera, Aphrodites and Athena had their beauty contest for Paris to judge them by handing the winner an apple. The Sons of Turenn sought golden apples in the old Celtic tale. There was in the Mabinogion the Ynys Avallach, which means the Isle of Apples, where the heroic dead go, now called the Isle of Avalon, The Norse had their goddess Idun who gave apples of immortality to the Aesir.
that put forth the idea that the apple represented speech. Interesting to contemplate. Animals are very interesting to me as they communicate with each other without speaking. Ever notice that cats, for instance do not generally make noises at each other when they become adults? Yet, cats raised around humans "meow" at their humans when they want something. I learned that when one horse knows something, all horses nearby know it, too. Like if there is a hole in a fence. Let one out into a pasture, and they will head right for the hole even if they have been in a barn where they could not possibly see it.
sermons, and a portion of it basically amounted to the idea that people with advanced degrees are arrogant, especially before God. *sigh*
Your assessment is correct.
So, they want people to stay in school, or not?
I've encountered (what I will call) simple people that resent me for my education. I only have a 3-year B.A. from a Canadian university, I'm not Einstein. I'm good with words and my mother taught me proper etiquette. For that they think I'm Mr. Fancy-pants. I consider myself to have aa basic education for the 21st century.
Its not a fraction as bad in the UK, people generally admire intelligence and thinking over there. People will get called out on ideas but not for raising them.
Here in the US there definitely is a culture of stupidity and a meme of having to conform to the norm, no matter that it is the level of dumb, I blame advertising and Jackass style programs, they celebrate stupidity, and people wanting to fit in.
The US has a system of politics of fear, fear of the mind, fear of the voice, fear of being accused of different. And most of it is traceable back to organized religion and population control/exploitation.
PS; hows Prague going, hope settling in well, and having fun.
Prague is kinda cool. I'm starting the blend in a bit. It's slow going with the work search, but I see why now that I see how it operates here. The school year is just beginning. I have money from Korea, so I'm chillin' out and going zen (and puffing herb). Something'll happen this week, or next. And I'm going to start going to yoga classes here, and maybe ask about teaching too. I hear there is a demand for yoga teachers here. Woo-hoo.
As for the U.S., I've long said, it's been tilting towards the lowest common demoninator for a long time. Add to that the "Disneyfication" of everything (domestic and abroad) and it's looking pretty hurtin'/cheesy/cheap!!
The miasma called television and the utter garbage they churn out is sickening. It caters to adolescent sesnibilities, but is lapped up like honey. Voyeurism into the lives of the wealthy is entertainment. All people seem to care about is looking like they lead a beautiful life. It's shallow and vain. Canada isn't much better in this regard. That's my culture shock going "home".
PS The shopping is pretty good too. I like clothes so I'm treating myself to a few good things. People dress to go to the nice cafes. I love it. (No suits allowed for me though-- hate 'em!! Shoes, jeans, etc.)
PPS I figure in about 10 years, I'll be old enough to be completely invisible to anyone under 50. In the meantime, I plan to milk what's left. So I like to have nice clothes. It's a non-North American thing. Call me vain, but I feel good. Joie de vivre stuff.
And it may seem contradictory to what I said above, but I don't have anything, but a couple of suitcases, my laptop, and a rented room, and naught else.
in Blumenthal's NYT op ed was interesting. I liked Ike! But, at the time I really wanted Adlai Stevenson to win.
With a doctorate in psychology and an upbringing in a evangelical household (I think his daddy was a preacher?), Dobson is a smart and dangerous man. He has proven himself to be a master at manipulating his followers; if he was really interested in preserving families he'd drop all the Xian mumbo-jumbo.
Meanwhile, the boy's father has to do his part. He needs to mirror and affirm his son's maleness. He can play rough-and-tumble games with his son, in ways that are decidedly different from the games he would play with a little girl. He can help his son learn to throw and catch a ball. He can teach him to pound a square wooden peg into a square hole in a pegboard. He can even take his son with him into the shower, where the boy cannot help but notice that Dad has a penis, just like his, only bigger.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/24/11556...
*****
EW! doesn't do justice. . . .
I've never read any of Dobson's books or heard much about his child-rearing 'philosophy'. Just from reading those few excerpts, it's clear that he brought a lot of his childhood issues with him right along into adulthood. He's a sick - wait for it - puppy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZEMyIOWMoY
Holy crap. That is some of the sickest shit I think I've ever heard. Hell, my dad beat the shit out of us and I certainly don't condone his behavior but that is too much. Sick and wrong. Dobson needs serious help. I'm going to be ill now. Jesus Christo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPvk0dbkh4Q
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSIgC1GWC38
I agree with Max Blumenthal that childhood abuse may is a key player in many the vicious behaviors of some adults. In my writing and speaking programs I define rage as 'anger with a history.' Rage is an emotion beyond anger. My ideas originated from my 20 years as a Child Protective Services Worker.
The way I see it, anger relates to something happening in the present and reflects “now” feelings. By contrast, rage arises from overwhelming, sometimes unbearable feelings from the past.
A distressing event in the present can become unbearable when it reminds you of past painful experiences. These negative events collect in your memory. Before you know it, you’re overreacting and feeling out-of-control.
Old injustices stockpile into a repository of rage, just waiting to be disgorged. When a similar event happens in the present, the stockpile ignites and you are having an intense reaction against those past injustices.
I've written quite a bit about Mob Mentality and how it relates to Abuse/Fear/Rage/Outrage in my blog 'Tips from the Queen of Rejection.'
Mob Mentality - All FrenziedUp:
http://queenofrejection.typepad.com/tips/2009...
Fear, Anger and Outrage
http://queenofrejection.typepad.com/tips/2009...
"Don't Fear Change. Change Fear"
http://queenofrejection.typepad.com/tips/2009...
http://queenofrejection.typepad.com/tips/2009...
Thank you for your experience and insight. I was abused. Got therapy. Can confirm that over-reaction on my part is mostly reactivation of the past, now, yet post-traumatic-stress syndrome still shows up, and now I have lots of tools. I have a choice, now. Providence/All Consciousness has always been close to me. That has been a weird trade-off. Also, much more mature, and Buddhism has helped me quite a lot!!!
PTSD by Buddhism. I'd have been a wreck this past spring without it! :)
My path has led to great happiness, joy, content, thru therapy and Buddhism. All life is suffering. WOW! That got my attention. That an end to suffering is possible. Needed to hear that. Knew we had something in common. Stay with it. They say, 'If you havn't started on the Path, don't. If you have, don't stop.'
The reason I like Eastern thinking and philosophy is because it is inward looking; not blaming outside forces (per se).
In a proper yoga meditation, once you go to Aum/Ohm you go "above"/"outside" your problem and "look down" on it, calmly. Often everything becomes crystal clear doing this.
"Thank you for posting this. I have been very interested in the psychology of female CSA survivors who become attracted to the "Biblical femininity" movement (I was one of them), but I honestly hadn't given enough thought to the histories of child abuse, and how they contribute to the mob mentality so many in evangelical churches.
So thanks for that. :)
conservatism anyway.
That's part of the promblem with those clowns. They think everything cna be conquered with force, and life just doesn't go down that easily.
Civil War.
If progressive means progress or advancing, then what is conservatism (yes project, it is a mental illness)? Anti-progress? De-evolving? Why wouldn't someone want others to evolve socially and intellectually?
That doesn't even make sense, unless they have ulterior motives?
feudalism. and keeping the poor at each others' throats through various forms of trained hatred.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4PYTKrKJfU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U74s8nFE7No
.............right.
Yep, exactly. That's the deeper root.
Every war has long unintended consequences. Lincoln never knew we'd still be fighting the Civil War today. The more I consider it, the more I think Lincoln should have just let the South go its way. We'd probably have had universal health care 50 years ago!
"And he understood that by advocating violence against children, deliberate violence, he was creating this sensibility, which would produce a radical generation of political followers."
No offense to Max, whom I'm sure is smarter than me but it seemsthat he's according a higher IQ level to Dobson than is warranted. It's my feeling that the guy's is just a hair smarter than the rubes that follow him. We give what we got/get, and Dobson was raised the way he tells others to raise their children. This psycho bastard is just dealing with the world in the way his daddy taught him. He has an innate leadership ability that makes it all the worse for the suckers who fall under his sway not to mention their poor children. Sorry, but the man is no better than an ignorant bully, he's not some evil genius.
Done and done.
This is a fascinating topic to me, and a scary one, so I was more than a happy to get myself a copy right now. And it sounds like Blumenthal will discuss the Muscular Christianity movement and what that means.
I would suggest, btw, if anyone here has a Kindle, and wants to read this book, to consider buying the Kindle version of the book, or any good political/current events book in Kindle format. I'm pretty disgusted that Glenn Beck's book has been in Kindle's top 10 bestsellers for quite some time...
Dare to Discipline, which is essentially a manual for corporal punishment, for beating your child. In this book, he says pain is a marvelous purifier that a child should be—that pain goes a long way with a child, that pain should be dispensed sufficiently enough to make a child cry, but then the child will crumple to your breast, and you should welcome the child with warm, open arms.
-----------------
Nanny 911 proves time and time again, that parents do not have to lay a hand on a child in order to discipline them.
What a disgusting idea. He is a psychological pervert.
Sigmund Freud? Dobson is also a bully, a brute, and a sadistic freak who feels he needs to show a feisty little dachshund who's boss or it's an affront to Dobson's masculinity...
Here is the 411 on what Dobson did to little Siggie.
I will never forget that insight into sadism. Thank you.
That would be called conditional love.
So besides the possibility of creating a kinky personality in terms of sex, it could cause future relationship problems as well.
.............like Dobson is just another pathological Sociopath.
.
I can definitely see that backfiring. In fact, I'm an example of it backfiring.
My mom used to kick my ass as a kid (psychotic south east Asian woman, go figure) but as opposed to "crumpling to her breast" I got the point where I realized nothing was good enough for her, and the slightest screw up got me an ass whipping, so I just stopped caring. I made it a point to keep her out of my private life, I never introduced her any of my girlfriends, nor have I ever told her the reasons I'm going into law.
Piss that kid off enough and they don't see you as "on their side" in life. They will either start to see you as an obstacle, or someone to exploit. With experiences like that I don't hold much value in the idea of "family" I value my friends more than my family and would throw a family member under a bus if stood to gain from it before I did the same to any of my friends.
The person who said its a conditional love, you're right it will demonstrate that. And two outcomes can happen, that the kid will continue to want that love and try to fulfill those conditions, they become the people always striving to please. Some of these people are easy to manipulate, just feed the ideas into their heads that what you want them to do will please God and they'll launch an inquisition for you.
Or they will decide that your love is not worth the hassle, and therefore, you are not worth the hassle. The pendulum then goes the other way, the kid's love for you becomes conditional and like any conditional contract, can revoke that love when the conditions aren't met and decide to throw you under a bus.
So when a Dobson reader finds themselves out in the cold unable to afford health insurance, and their kid never returns their calls, I wonder if hindsight would illuminate anything for them.
Though not everyone is as headstrong as I am (not to toot my own horn), some people can't break from that and need something always threatening them, well what can be more scary than planting in their minds that they are "sinners in the hands of an angry God", this Dobson guy really knows how to play chess and think three moves ahead, it's the same thing militant Islamic groups in the Mid East do.
Fanatics all up and down the ideological spectrum will be fanatical. Thats what they do.
The fault for the downfall of the conservative movement is that none of the leaders have the stones to refute any of these maniacs, or if anyone of them does offer a half-hearted rebuke, its followed up by the now predictable apology.
The leaders are solely to blame.
I feel much better now, had my regular bath in Pears, Radox and Pinaud.
I was going a little nuts earlier and only realized it was because the moon became full last night at 12:03 am when I was asleep, and rose tonight, almost as full, at approx 8:10 whilst I was typing.
I just came back from a short walk in the moonlight with my shirt off. Not as good as sleeping in the light naked, but will do.
I know this may sound juvenile and stupid, but there are some people when they come on the telly, who give me the sudden urge to slap them.
Dobson is one of those. Newt is another. Just can't stand to even look at them let alone listen to their evil psychotic bullshit!
They have that look on their face like they know, that we know, that they know they are lying - but there are millions of other dupes out there, and they could care less.
So it's no surprise most right wingers I encounter treat me with pure hatred, and at times with threats of violence...But man, you'd be shocked how many of the right wing gay bashers I've encountrered are blitheringly obvious closet cases. I'd say WELL over 90%
Those same gay bashers are the ones that, around 3 a.m., at a party, once everyone is hammered, are willing to unzip for a BJ, if they think no one will find out.
Been there: haven't done that: seen it countless times.
(The next day, the act is: "Wow, I was really drunk last night. What happened?" But they know!!!)
There was a book published about 5-6 years ago - don't know the title or author but remember reading a review - which told of a German family doctor who was extremely popular in the first decades of the 20th century, whose proscription for child-rearing was similar to that of Dobson: beat the children. The author attributed the resulting generation of cowed children to the later success of the Nazi program.
Dare to Discipline was first written MANY years before Dobson put together any of his political machine.
Max, where in Dobson's book does it say when your child is crying that you should beat him? It's no where there, bud.
While I agree heartily with the thrust of Max's message, he ventures into Glenn Beck-like paranoia in some areas, and gobbly-gook in others. Max's core message is too important to discredit it with this sort of sloppiness.
That's ignoracio elechi at best.
Besides, the article quotes the book that you should spank until they cry, not spank because they cry.
This is the bastard who is telling people how to treat children?
He's an animal abuser and a child abuser. He's a worthless pile of shit.
http://nospank.net/dugan.htm
........
In his best-selling book, The Strong-Willed Child, child-rearing author James Dobson describes how he abused his family's pet dachshund, Siggie:
>"When I told Sigmund to leave his warm seat and go to bed, he flattened his ears...
"I had seen this defiant mood before, and knew there was only one way to deal with it.
The ONLY way to make Siggie obey is to threaten him with destruction.
Nothing else works. I turned and went to my closet and got a small belt to help me 'reason' with Mr. Freud."
"What developed next is impossible to describe. That tiny dog and I had the most vicious fight ever staged between man and beast. I fought him up one wall and down the other, with both of us scratching and clawing and growling and swinging the belt. I am embarrassed by the memory of the entire scene. Inch by inch I moved him toward the family room and his bed. As a final desperate maneuver, Siggie backed into the corner for one last snarling stand. I eventually got him to bed, only because I outweighed him 200 to 12!" <
Sounds like nothing less than a right wing Christianist counter part to Vladimir Illych Lenin.
Dobson's approach to child rearing has a bizarre way of perpetuating violence. His tactics only breed people who's universal language is violence, violence is the only thing they understand. Meaning, in some instances violence is the only way to get through to them. Which then forces someone who wouldn't otherwise use violence to use violence on them, perpetuating even more violence. Heh, evangelical Christians, everything Jesus was not.
And now, you need to read this- from The Zero- The Ultimate Fascism
[Got it for you. You need to highlight the text you want to hyperlink/italicize before you apply the tags. :D Site Monitor]
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